▶ 0:15:46Chair Capito: With our opening statements and our introductions, I want to thank everybody for being here. Senator brett said we will try to keep it under control. I said, you southerners love to have a good time. Thank you all for being here. Today we will hear from four nominees to service members of the tva's board of directors.
▶ 0:16:15Chair Capito: It is about time we pulled up the board of directors with great talent. I look forward to learning about each of your goals and priorities today. In 1933, the congress passed the tennessee valley a 30 act which establishes the tva as a federally owned public utility. The law charges tva with three primary roles, providing electricity, managing the tennessee river system, and assisting with economic development efforts.
▶ 0:16:43Chair Capito: If confirmed, the nominees before us will be required to support and uphold each of these fundamental responsibilities of tva, which have served the people of the tennessee valley very well for decades. In particular, I have seen the positive impacts of tva's economic development efforts in the appalachian region and hope the nominees will continue to prioritize those activities. Tva's mission to provide affordable and reliable electricity is no small challenge and the well-being of its customers.
▶ 0:17:13Chair Capito: Today, tva is the third-largest largest electricity generator of the united states, providing energy to more than 10 million people at 800,000 businesses across the tennessee valley in partnership with 153 local power companies. The families and businesses that call the tennessee valley home fund tva's operations through their energy bills, and in return, these customers expect affordable and reliable energy.
▶ 0:17:41Chair Capito: Tennessee valley is forecasted over the next decade to need a dramatic increase between 30 and printed -- between 30% and 80% of its current power capacity to meet rising demand. To meet this growing demand, the board will have to make strategic long-term investment decisions to ensure future capacity while maintaining reasonable and affordable electricity bills for its customers. No small task.
▶ 0:18:09Chair Capito: However, to move forward with these vital planning and investment decisions, the tva board of directors needs a quorum. Without a quorum, tva is currently unable to conduct a full range of business necessary to support the people of the tennessee valley. Confirming these nominees to the board will enable tva to move forward with planning new power generation capacity, approving large power load applications to support economic development, and other important actions like improving the 2025 integrated resource plan.
▶ 0:18:39Chair Capito: Now turning to our witnesses today. First we will hear from two nominees that call tennessee home, Mr. graves and Mr. hagood. Mr. graves is a ceo and has more than 30 years of experience in health care leadership positions. Mr. graves also serves on the board of memphis light, gas, and water, of which is a past. Mr. hagood is an attorney with a wide range of experience across legal, athletics, real estate, and agriculture industries.
▶ 0:19:09Chair Capito: Next, Mr. jones of alabama will deliver his testimony. Mr. jones is a longtime owner of a highly successful insurance agency and currently serves on the electric board for the city. Funnily, we will hear from Mr. graham from florida. A chemical engineer by training, he brings 15 years of experience as a member and three-time chair of florida public service commission and is a former member of the board of directors of the national association of the regulatory utility commissioners.
▶ 0:19:38Chair Capito: The diverse background and experiences of these nominees bringing to the board would position tva to make effective long-term decisions. I look forward to hearing about each nominee's priorities for the board and how they will work to have a positive impact for people of the tennessee valley. With that, I will recognize our ranking member, senator whitehouse, for his opening statements, and then we will go to interactions.
▶ 0:20:01Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you, madam chair. Before I get to tva, I want to discuss permitting reform for a minute. You and I want permitting reform, as do colleagues on the democratic and republican side. All sorts of interest groups are pitching me on permitting reform. There is a lot to fix. And I am happy to and will continue to engage in these conversations. Not just with you, but also with our colleagues on the energy committee.
▶ 0:20:32Sen. Whitehouse: Remember what I warn constantly about. Trust. Why would we want to do bipartisan permitting reform during an administration that won't faithfully execute that law, that can't be trusted? Trust matters. And the trump administration is destroying any hope of that trust with unrelenting and often illegal assaults on clean energy.
▶ 0:21:02Sen. Whitehouse: Off my state, they dropped an illegal stop work order on a project nearing completion with $4 billion invested and every permit in place. Listen to this. When whoever it was at moscow central demanded the illegal stop work order, government lawyers had to go into court and reverse arguments they had been making in that same courthouse about that same project just
▶ 0:21:35Sen. Whitehouse: Weeks earlier.the exact opposite arguments . Of course they got crushed. But from a trust perspective, where is the faith there? It is gangster gong show quality stuff. Two weeks ago, into your canceled environmental review on america's largest solar energy project. The energy executive order contends the solar and wind energy are not even energy. Even the dictionary is violated.
▶ 0:22:07Sen. Whitehouse: This is kind of bureaucratic al capone quality stuff. So it is very hard to find a glimmer of good faith. The administration's killed list of clean energy projects starts with projects in blue states. But just wait. The full list targets red states as well. They have pull permits for projects in idaho. On monday, a senator declared he had no interest in offshore wind and a permitting proposal. Guess what.
▶ 0:22:38Sen. Whitehouse: Unless the illegal acts stop good luck with the trust required for a permitting deal. Where are my senate republican colleagues? It used to be your state of principle that government should not be weaponized, that government should not pick winners and losers, that regulators should be honest and not take private property, and that lawful permits should be honored.
▶ 0:23:06Sen. Whitehouse: Now everyone is mute while government is weaponized, picks winners and losers, illegally damages private interests and lawful permits. All because what? The picked winner is the fossil fuel industry. Just think about that a moment. When the winds change in your favor industry is not the picked winner anymore, do you really want the lawless america, the pay to play america of this administration?
▶ 0:23:36Sen. Whitehouse: The republican party has long claimed to be the party of free-market capitalism, yet you seem fine with this level of government interference and free enterprise. Stop work, trump's interference in all of this project is not just putting thousands of hard-working americans out of a job. It is raising the cost of capital for all projects, even fossil fuel projects. Folks, this is what the founding fathers meant when they talked about corruption.
▶ 0:24:02Sen. Whitehouse: When the government comes in and shuts down a level project to please its political donors, we are no longer in the united states of america. We are in venezuela. So, colleagues, I will keep working in good faith on the substance of permitting reform. I promise you that. But that gate I have said we will need to get through, that trust check is looking increasingly impossible.
▶ 0:24:30Sen. Whitehouse: Without a drastic change in behavior, I am not seeing a pathway to that trust. Without perhaps even some change in personnel, I am not seeing a pathway to that trust. If that is fine with all of you, keep it up. But do not blame me when permitting reform crashes and burns because all trust, all rule of law has crashed and burned.
▶ 0:24:51Sen. Whitehouse: By the way, if that is lost, that is going to affect highway bills, also at some other legislation that requires trust in the faithful execution of the laws.
▶ 0:25:07Sen. Whitehouse: On the nominees to govern the tva, which by statute must maintain national leadership and technological information and environmental stewardship, the trump administration is on course to higher cost power and environmental destruction with fewer jobs and less accountability but more reward for fossil fuel mega donors.
▶ 0:25:29Sen. Whitehouse: If you know how grids work, is easy to see how reducing clean power requires more expensive polluting units to be dialed up to meet projected demand. Especially as demand surges from data centers. That cost increase comes from ratepayer pockets, hammering people's electric bills. There have been bright spots. In 2024, more than half of tva's electricity came from zero carbon sources.
▶ 0:25:57Sen. Whitehouse: Tva led the charge on deploying advanced reactors and plans deployment of 10 gigawatts of solar by 2035. It has retired or announced retirement of a percentage of its coal fleet but has approved natural gas generation since 2019 without carbon offset or removal.
▶ 0:26:18Sen. Whitehouse: My question is, will the nominees before us advocate for tva's customers or rollover for trump administration schemes to build or extend expensive polluting fossil plans to help out the big trump donors at ratepayer expense? Will tennessee valley ratepayers pay the expense for that with higher utility bills and medical expenses and housing and insurance costs as climate change fuels more and more costly disasters?
▶ 0:26:47Sen. Whitehouse: The nominees appear here under a cloud that is not their own fault. Trump fired three democratic board members, appending the convention of a bipartisan tva board, and depriving the board of its quorum. Are republicans ok with that? How about when the winds change? Political interference to enrich political mega donors is the exact opposite of what is needed to run a proper utility. A public board like the tva board needs competent visionaries.
▶ 0:27:17Sen. Whitehouse: I will just say the classic pay to play political spoils system is never worked for the public. History shows that. It could well wreak havoc on tva and its customers. I look forward to hearing from the nominees and whose interests they will put first. Thank you, madam chair.
▶ 0:27:37Chair Capito: Thank you. Before I turn to senator blackburn, I am going to respond for one minute on the permitting . In the same symposium on monday evening where I and congressman westerman from the house side both reiterated several times that permitting reform has to be agnostic as to what project it is. It does not matter if it is a natural gas, coal, wind, solar.
▶ 0:28:09Chair Capito: To me, if you get the permits and do the things you need to do to be permitted, you should move forward in a matter what. You are reminded if I can say by senator lummis yesterday that we feel your pain. The xl pipeline that was canceled the first day of the biden administration is a good example of that. We have mutual pain here. This is when I think we can get permitting reform, but I get your message. Thank you.
▶ 0:28:38Chair Capito: This morning, we are joined by senators blackburn, maybe haggerty, and tupper bill -- tuberville. We will begin with Mr. blackburn -- we will begin with senator blackburn.
▶ 0:28:51Sen. Blackburn: Thank you, madam chairman. I am delighted to join you this morning and introduce these two fine tennesseans. As you said, Mr. mitch graves has served on the board of commissioners at memphis light, gas, and water. We call it mlgw. Since 2016. Mlgw is the largest three service utility in the country and the tennessee valley authority's largest customer.
▶ 0:29:20Sen. Blackburn: During his tenure, he has chaired the pension and opeb fund as well as the hedge, audit, and human resource committees, and briefly served as ceo providing steady leadership in one of memphis' most critical public institutions. He has over 37 years of executive leadership experience in complex regulated industries.
▶ 0:29:47Sen. Blackburn: He currently serves as chief executive officer of the west cancer center and research institute, leading a multistate health care organization with more than 100 providers and 750 employees. Prior to this role, he served as president and ceo of health choice llc and held key executive positions at methodist health care.
▶ 0:30:14Sen. Blackburn: His expertise has been recognized nationally through his service on the united health care executive advisory council and cigna's national advisory council where he has provided valuable insight on the health care strategy and innovation.
▶ 0:30:34Sen. Blackburn: With his deep roots in the memphis community, decades of executive leadership, and steadfast commitment to public service, he represents the best of tennessee's business and civic leadership. And I am confident that his experience and dedication will continue to serve our state and nation well. At this time, I would like introduce Mr. jeff hagood.
▶ 0:31:01Sen. Blackburn: From the small community of persia, to serve on the tva board of directors. In addition to his 35 year legal career, Mr. hagood has built and managed a diverse portfolio of successful businesses across our state.
▶ 0:31:17Sen. Blackburn: His business ventures have included many storage facilities, where houses, urgent care medical connections, a large trucking operation, residential subdivisions, restaurants, apartments, commercial properties, farmland, and a sports agency. His extensive experience in business and management brings a vital private sector perspective to tva's leadership.
▶ 0:31:46Sen. Blackburn: Beyond his professional accomplishments, he has dedicated much of his life to serving his community. He has served on numerous nonprofit boards, mentored children through big brothers and big sisters for nearly a decade, and for almost 20 years has lead his church's shot in ministry, personally preparing and delivering meals to those unable to leave their homes. His commitment to service reflect the very values tva was founded upon.
▶ 0:32:18Sen. Blackburn: With his legal expertise, entrepreneurial success, and unwavering commitment to service, Mr. hagood embodies the values that have long defined the people of the tennessee valley. I am confident that his leadership will bring strength, accountability, and common sense stewardship to the tva board of directors. Thank you, madam chairman.
▶ 0:32:42Chair Capito: Thank you, senator. Now I will turn to senator hagerty.
▶ 0:32:47Sen. Hagerty: Thank you. I appreciate you holding these important nominations today. My home state of tennessee is dependent on the tennessee valley authority for the entirety of our energy supply. While tva touches a number of other states in the valley, tennessee has only one option for our vital energy needs, and that is the tva.
▶ 0:33:09Sen. Hagerty: It is my honor to introduce two outstanding tennesseans, mitch graves and jeff hagood, who have been nominated by president trump to serve on the board of directors of the tennessee valley authority. Both men bring decades of leadership experience in business, management, and community service. You heard from senator blackburn the extent of their experience. Their proven record of results makes them exceptional and qualified to guide tva at this moment.
▶ 0:33:34Sen. Hagerty: I also would like to recognize randy jones and arthur graham who bring valuable expertise, valuable experience, and valuable perspective that have confirmed will help advance of the valley's vision for affordable, reliable energy, regional growth, and technological innovation in the years ahead. This hearing is about more than the four nominees sitting in front of you. It is about the future of american energy dominance in the transformative role that tva can play in securing that dominant.
▶ 0:34:02Sen. Hagerty: The tennessee valley authority is uniquely positioned to lead america's energy revival and shape the country' for the next century. We have a once in a generation opportunity to ensure american independence and technical dominance. The 21st century economy will be powered by artificial intelligence, quantum computing, and advanced manufacturing, all of which demand vast amounts of reliable power. The ability to generate that power is critical to ensuring the united states continues to be the global leader.
▶ 0:34:32Sen. Hagerty: And let me be clear, failure in this endeavor is not an option. Nuclear energy has been in tennessee's dna and is the solution that can meet our future needs at scale. Tva is already leading the way. It holds the nation's only slight permit for a small reactor making it the clear front runner in america's nuclear resurgence. It is more replicable than traditional reactors. Now is the time to deliver.
▶ 0:35:02Sen. Hagerty: Unfortunately, tva's potential has too often been constrained by bureaucracy and a lack of vision. For too long, the board prioritize process of her progress and metrics of omission. But today, we have an opportunity to change that, to empower new leadership that will cut through the red tape and move tva forward with renewed purpose.
▶ 0:35:22Sen. Hagerty: The trump administration's decisive action to bring fresh leadership to tva ensures we can confirm board members who understand the urgency of this moment, leaders who will champion innovation, job creation, and energy independence. Mitch graves and jeff hagood understand the responsibility before them. It is central, not just to tennessee's prosperity but to america's national security and our global competitiveness.
▶ 0:35:51Sen. Hagerty: I am confident that under their leadership, tva will act boldly, deliver a clear plan to make tva the driving force winter in energy and technology's future. If tva succeeds, the guidance states would lead the world and scalable energy production. If it fails, we risk ceding that ground to adversaries like china. The stakes cannot be higher. This is america's moment to lead.
▶ 0:36:15Sen. Hagerty: Enter a new era of innovation that powers our economy, strengthens our security, and secures a new american golden age. I am proud to support these four qualified companies to serve on the tva board of directors and over to their swift confirmation.
▶ 0:36:29Chair Capito: Thank you very much. Now we have senator tuberville to introduce Mr. jones of alabama, who has obvious li bin nominated to be member of the board of directors of the tva. Senator tuberville, thank you for coming. Please proceed.
▶ 0:36:44Sen. Tuberville: Thank you. It is my honor to introduce my good friend and fellow alabamian to represent the state of alabama on the one seat we have on the tva board. Randy is a proud business owner and a civic servant in north alabama. Over 45 years, he started his own insurance agency and has grown substantially over the years, making him a big player in the state of alabama.
▶ 0:37:15Sen. Tuberville: For 17 years, randy has served on the electric board where he oversaw a $12.8 million expansion of the system while keeping their debt low, which is very important. He has also served on the business council and renewal commission of alabama in jacksonville state university's board of directors, where he oversaw significant infrastructure and economic development efforts across our state. Mr.
▶ 0:37:41Sen. Tuberville: Jones's strong background in business and civil service set him up to be a valuable board member of the tva. I am grateful for their hard work he has done so far in alabama and look forward to working with him on the tva board. Thank you for being here today, randy jones. Thank you.
▶ 0:38:00Chair Capito: Thank you. Thank you all very much. I would ask the witnesses if they will move to this table, nominees, and I will swear you in. I'm going to ask you to stand,
▶ 0:38:32Chair Capito: So save you the up and down. And raise your right hand, please. And answer the following question. I will start with Mr. graves. Do you swear the testimony you are about to give to this committee is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? Mr. hagood? Thank you. Thank you. Let the record show the witnesses have entered in the affirmative. We will now hear from our witnesses. Thank you. Mr. graves, when you are ready.
▶ 0:39:05Chair Capito: Everybody is seated. You can proceed with your opening statement. Thank you for being here. I think you might need to turn -- is your microphone on?
▶ 0:39:17Mr. Graves: We practiced that and I somehow have forgotten that part. Chairman capito, ranking member whitehouse, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today and for considering my nomination to the tennessee valley authority's board of directors. For the record, my name is mitch graves. I am a fourth generation memphis I am a fourth generation memphi an.
▶ 0:39:48Mr. Graves: It is an honor to play a part in the tva providing affordable, reliable electricity, fostering economic growth, and protecting the region's natural resources. I have had personal experience with every aspect of tva's mission. I experienced tva's dam, and from childhood fishing with my grandfather to waterskiing as a young adult.
▶ 0:40:17Mr. Graves: I have seen firsthand how tva has played a critical role in my hometown's economic development over the years, bringing jobs and opportunity. And of course, tva has provided our citizens with low cost electricity through our local power company, memphis light, gas, and water, better known as mlgw. Since 2016, I served on the board of commissioners of mlgw.
▶ 0:40:47Mr. Graves: As the senator said earlier, mlgw is the largest three service utility in the country, and tva's largest customer, accounting for about 10% of its revenue. I have served as chairman of mlgw and for a brief time period interim ceo. During my term as chairman, mlgw explored alternative suppliers of energy.
▶ 0:41:14Mr. Graves: We developed and integrated a resource plan which then we developed a request for proposal. After reviewing numerous options, mlgw decided against selecting any bids and recommended staying with tva. A decision that underscores both tva's value and its importance to memphis. Throughout that process, tva stood out to its reliability and low rates.
▶ 0:41:44Mr. Graves: I also gained a better appreciation of tva's balanced generation portfolio and how critical that is in keeping the lights on and costs low. Memphis and the valley are well served by tva. In addition to serving as chairman, I have served as chairman of the mlgw pension funds and chairman of hedge, audit, and human resource committees.
▶ 0:42:13Mr. Graves: If confirmed, I am pleased to bring my direct governance experience in the public utility sector to the tva board. As outlined in the materials I have submitted to the committee, I have over 37 years of executive leadership experience in complex regulated environments, and in my current role as chief executive officer of west cancer center and research institute, I lead a multistate health care organization of 100 providers at
▶ 0:42:44Mr. Graves: Over 750 employees. Prior to that, I served as president and ceo of health choice llc and held executive leadership roles at memphis health care. I have had the privilege of serving on many corporate nonprofit boards, most often in leadership roles.
▶ 0:43:05Mr. Graves: My background in executive management combined with utility governance and community service will enable me to provide balanced oversight while helping advance tva's mission of energy delivery, environmental stewardship, and economic development.
▶ 0:43:23Mr. Graves: If confirmed, I will uphold the tva act and work to ensure tva stays true to its mission and continues to meet the needs of families, businesses, and communities across the valley, not just for today but for generations to come. I would like to thank senator blackburn and senator hagerty for being here today and their kind words.
▶ 0:43:49Mr. Graves: I would also like to thank representative kustoff who is in the audience, and governor bill lee for their support. There are few people in the audience I would like to thank for their support. My wife, daughter, her new husband, good friends mike, billy, robin, and courtney. I certainly appreciate all tva has done for my community. I look forward to giving back.
▶ 0:44:17Mr. Graves: I look forward to collaborating with you all and answering your questions today. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:44:22Chair Capito: Thank you very much. Next, we will go to Mr. hagood.
▶ 0:44:28Mr. Hagood: Chairman capito, ranking member whitehouse, and members of this committee, my name is jeff hagood, and I sincerely thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. I was indeed humbled president trump nominated me to be on the tennessee valley board of directors, and I am very grateful to my two senators, marsha blackburn and bill hagerty, for their kind words and support.
▶ 0:44:55Mr. Hagood: I was born and raised in persia, tennessee, a little hamlet about 65 miles from knoxville. I was fortunate to be raised in a wonderful home and a wonderful community. My father larry was the best man I have ever known. My mother was the best mother anybody could ever have. My daddy was a rural male carrier and grew tobacco on a small farm to supplement our income. He also founded the persia utility district.
▶ 0:45:26Mr. Hagood: I saw firsthand what a district that made in the little community. My mother worked for tva as a secretary. I so remember my mother talking about how proud she was to work for tva and how much she loved her work. My mother's only sister virginia and my mother's little brother had careers at the tva as well. Just as tva was important to my family, and was also important to my community.
▶ 0:45:53Mr. Hagood: As a child, I would often peddle my bicycle down a rural road to gaze at the towering smokestacks at the fossil plant. Tva was more than an employer, it was the economic heartbeat of my little community. Offering the best paying jobs and fueling growth and opportunity.
▶ 0:46:14Mr. Hagood: Today, tva continues to drive energy production, economic development, and access to natural resources across the region, benefits that remain vital to the communities where I grew up and now live. Preserving and enhancing these communities should be a priority for all of us want to serve this region. My parents had little formal education, but they both understood the value of education and had the expectation I would be the first and my family to go to college. With their sacrifices, I was.
▶ 0:46:46Mr. Hagood: I attended the university of tennessee and got a degree in an honors program and got my law degree. Upon graduation, I took a very unconventional path for a new lawyer. At that time my open my own little practice. I made 5002 hundred $18 my first year.
▶ 0:47:04Mr. Hagood: I am happy and thankful to say both my little shy made -- I made $55 made $5,218 my first year. I am happy and thankful to say that. Caps off office is clean and provided security for the offices, I think I treated them all and sure hope I did in their cases with the same care and zeal.
▶ 0:47:35Mr. Hagood: I practiced law full-time for the last 35 years and always had a particular interest in business. Since 1990 with the help of partners, I built and developed many storage facilities and storage warehouses, urgent care medical clinics, a large trucking operation, subdivisions, restaurants, apartments, commercial buildings. I purchased and developed farmland and cofounded a sports agency that represents many nfl players.
▶ 0:48:00Mr. Hagood: I believe my background in business enables me to offer tva the perspective of not only a businessman but someone outside of the public utility sector. I have had to learn how to learn personnel management, evaluate personnel, know when and how to raise capital and how to deploy it, hire the right people, get the right technology. Tva has a mission of service, and I align myself with that mission.
▶ 0:48:30Mr. Hagood: Throughout my life, I have strived to give back to my community more than I have taken. I have served on the boards of many nonprofits. I have contributed time, not just money. For nearly a decade, I went to a project in knoxville and mentored two twins. For 20 years come I prepared -- years, I prepared many meals.
▶ 0:48:54Mr. Hagood: On a personal note, I met my wife in our church, and we have been married for six years. We have a three-year-old son. Faith and family are the cornerstones of our lives.
▶ 0:49:13Mr. Hagood: I share this back rent of legal experience, business acumen, service to my community and state, and my appreciation for what tva has meant to my family and my community because it demonstrates the values and experiences I would bring to the tva board if confirmed. Today, I commit to bringing strong leadership, common sense, and accountability for the people tva service.
▶ 0:49:42Mr. Hagood: I will never lose sight of the communities like my hometown of persia, tennessee, and the common man and the common woman. I will be a voice for the mission and values that were set forth nearly 100 years ago, the founding of the tennessee valley authority. Thank you.
▶ 0:50:00Mr. Jones: Thank you, chairman capito, and ranking member whitehouse, and members of the committee. It is a privilege to appear before you today, and I am deeply honored to have been nominated by president to serve on the tennessee valley authority board of directors. I want to thank my good friend senator tuberville for the kind introduction and support. I am appreciative for the support from senator britt.
▶ 0:50:26Mr. Jones: Speaking of my hometown in alabama, the maker is here along with several friends from back home, and my wife is also here. I am appreciative of all of their support. I come before you not only as a 50 year resident of alabama but someone who has seen firsthand the vital role the tva plays in energy, environment, and economic sustainability.
▶ 0:50:53Mr. Jones: Tva's original mission was to provide reliable, portable, and substantial power, and that mission remains -- provide reliable, portable, and sustainable power, and that mission remains. The meeting was a success.
▶ 0:51:21Mr. Jones: One week later, the citizens of the county voted for a complete cooperation with the project. The completion of the dam has been tendered as the most important event in the history of the county. On november 6, 1939, the birmingham news reported there is a huge industrial expansion. The reporter quoted the chamber of commerce president was in power rates will be reduced 30% because of the dam.
▶ 0:51:49Mr. Jones: Even now, our residential rates remain 30% below those of our neighboring providers. Hydroelectricity, the original renewable resource, still supplies about 9% of tva's power. Tva provides power to 153 power suppliers who in turn service over 10 million customers.
▶ 0:52:14Mr. Jones: From the largest of the smallest, these local power suppliers and by the standard of safety and service, and I have had the privilege of serving on the board since 2000. This is one of the smaller electric companies that tva serves, but it has given me a greater understanding of the importance of the strong partnership between tva and the local power companies as well as unique challenges those of us serving small rural population space.
▶ 0:52:46Mr. Jones: Also for the past 18 years, I have served on the board of trustees of jacksonville state university, which is a regional school in northeast alabama serving over 10,000 students. For the past six years, I served as chairman overseeing a budget of over $200 million. In fact, forms just named the university as the number one employer in the state of alabama. I have also had the honor to serve in statewide boards over the years.
▶ 0:53:15Mr. Jones: But the day I became chairman at jacksonville state, I realize we are responsible to make sure that our students's hard earned dollars are spent wisely to ensure a degree from that university has value. By driving philosophy, passion, humility, and integrity in all that we do. And I want to bring that same philosophy to the tva board.
▶ 0:53:43Mr. Jones: We can see a ratepayer and they know we are good stewards of their hard-earned money. And we support them and generations to come. I witnessed the natural beauty of our reservoirs, bald eagles, and ospreys once endangered and now abundant. People come from across the country to fish over lakes, considered among the best in the country.
▶ 0:54:12Mr. Jones: Protecting our environment is simple and protecting our economy. Alabama is experiencing unprecedented growth. We welcome high-tech data centers and growth that we never lose sight of the families that receive a power bill every month like the grandmother in alabama raising two grandchildren with $800 a month. For her, a 10% rate increase on her power bill could be the difference between a meal or paying her power bill.
▶ 0:54:43Mr. Jones: Economic sustainability means ensuring that every decision balances opportunity with affordability the people served. In closing, decisions made by tva today must stand the test of time. There are choices and consequent that will shape our region for the next 100 years.
▶ 0:55:04Mr. Jones: If confirmed, I am committed to focus on the reliability, environment of stewardship, and economic sustainability and ensuring tva will continue to fulfill its original information and improve the lives of generations to come. Thank you.
▶ 0:55:20Chair Capito: Thank you. Now we will turn to Mr. graham.
▶ 0:55:24Mr. Graham: Thank you, madam chair. Before I start, I have to say I disagree with something my colleague jeff hagood just said. I believe my mom and my dad were the number one parents. That being said, madam chairwoman, ranking member, members of the committee, I want to thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.
▶ 0:55:48Mr. Graham: My name is arthur graham, and it is truly an honor and a blessing to have been nominated by the president to serve on the tva board of directors. In this time of rapid growth, I believe the tva has an incredible opportunity not just for the valley but for the country as a whole. I want to take a moment to share my life experiences with the committee. Throughout my life, I have acquired a set of skills that are for two as tools in my tva toolbox.
▶ 0:56:17Mr. Graham: I have related utilities, investor-owned ammunition pulls. I have overseen budgets and large organizations. I have managed workforce and safety issues. I have contributed to the national energy policy. For 15 years, served on the public service commission where I regulated utilities for the state of florida. During this time, I dealt with issues such as ensuring adequate generation. We have had no rolling blackouts.
▶ 0:56:47Mr. Graham: Strong grid reliability and strong recovery, all while keeping rates affordable for both families and businesses. Let me give you some perspective. Since covid, we have had a residential growth rate in my state of 1200 people per day. That is 1200 people per day moving to the state of florida. During that time, we have had seven hurricanes and still managed to keep rates affordable. On the national level, I served on the executive committee and board of directors.
▶ 0:57:19Mr. Graham: This is where I heard first-hand lessons learned from my peers throughout the united states. Prior to the public service commission, I served on the city council of county commission of jacksonville. This is where I learned to deal with municipal utilities. From the 12th largest in the united states one of the smallest, I dealt first-hand with the "not in my back yard" issues, like where do we put the power generation, the substations, the poles?
▶ 0:57:50Mr. Graham: I have managed a large organizations. I was the chief and for five years dealing with human resources, personnel management, and the daily operation of the state agency. For 12 years, I worked in the paper industry where we learned to deal with unions, osha requirements, workforce, and production. I can tell you when the paper machine goes down, it is all hands on deck just like when the power goes down.
▶ 0:58:17Mr. Graham: I will bring the same sense of urgency and operational knowledge with me to the tva board. I believe the above-mentioned tools and my engineer background makes me a valuable member for the president's team to take the tva forward. Which future, you may ask. I think that tva has a key role in supporting rapid growth in the tennessee valley.
▶ 0:58:40Mr. Graham: Data centers, manufacturing, residential growth are all coming to the valley at a pace that will require planning and decisive actions to be successful. The tva must focus on expanding generation capacity and not prematurely closing down current generation. Expanding to new nuclear technology and strengthening transmission to ensure reliability.
▶ 0:59:03Mr. Graham: In short, I believe true tva leadership in these areas would not be just great for the valley, but will serve as a template for the united states as a whole. I believe this fits right into the administration's energy policy. Once again, I thank you for your time, and look to count on your support.
▶ 0:59:24Chair Capito: Thank you. Before we begin asking questions, I have three standard questions I want to ask. I will go down the dais to get a nod or a response. You agree if confirmed to appear before this committee, designated members of this committee, and other appropriate committees of this congress to provide information subject to appropriated necessary security protections with respect to your responsibilities?
▶ 0:59:53Mr. Graves: Yes.
▶ 0:59:54Mr. Hagood: Yes, I do, senator.
▶ 0:59:57Chair Capito: Thank you.
▶ 1:00:00Mr. Hagood: Yes, I do, senator.
▶ 1:00:02Mr. Jones: Yes I do, senator.
▶ 1:00:04Mr. Graham: Yes, I do, senator.
▶ 1:00:07Chair Capito: Do you agree that the information is provided to this committee, staff, and other property committees in a timely manner?
▶ 1:00:17Mr. Graves: Yes.
▶ 1:00:18Mr. Hagood: Yes.
▶ 1:00:20Mr. Jones: Yes.
▶ 1:00:22Mr. Graham: Yes.
▶ 1:00:27Chair Capito: Do you know of any matters that may place you in a comfortable interest if you are confirmed?
▶ 1:00:29Mr. Graves: I do not.
▶ 1:00:31Mr. Hagood: I do not.
▶ 1:00:33Sen. Whitehouse: No. --Mr. jones: no.
▶ 1:00:38Mr. Graham: I do not.
▶ 1:00:39Chair Capito: Thank you very much. I think all of your opening statements were really good, and the families and friends and others here in support of you -- filling out the forms and being able to meet all of the standards is no picnic here. So you have had a long trek to get here. We appreciate and we know the support that others offer you is very valuable. The tennessee valley powers demand is projected to grow in the coming years.
▶ 1:01:11Chair Capito: Tva's draft integrated resource plan anticipates 26 gigawatts of new baseload energy generation capacity is needed over the next decade to ensure system reliability. So two questions. What do you see as the primary challenges to tva providing affordable reliable energy, and how would you were to address those challenges? I will start with Mr. graves.
▶ 1:01:33Mr. Graves: Thank you for the question, senator. And you are right, the grid growth needs to happen. Especially with ai and other things being added to the system. I think the integrated resource plan is a critical tool to understanding what that demand is going to look like and what the portfolio should look like to be able to deliver that power. When I was at mlgw, we did an integrated resource plan as well.
▶ 1:02:01Mr. Graves: The affordability, that is the core mission of tva, to provide affordable, reliable electricity. So that has to be at the core of how we look at that. I do think nuclear power is going to have to play an extremely important part. And that is a costly venture to go into. So there are things we will have to look at as a board of how we fund that going forward.
▶ 1:02:26Chair Capito: Thank you. Mr. hagood.
▶ 1:02:30Mr. Hagood: Senator, thank you for that question. I agree in large part with my colleague. Our best hope is nuclear. I am published the new smr technology has been around for a while and gives me opportunity for hope. It is clean. And I'm hopeful about that.
▶ 1:02:55Mr. Hagood: The irp that my colleague just mentioned is a critical thing we are going to have to tackle as a board, if confirmed. That is a very, very critical thing.
▶ 1:03:07Chair Capito: Thank you. Mr. jones.
▶ 1:03:09Mr. Jones: If confirmed, I will commit to continue looking at carbon free future technology and increasing the hydropower and the nuclear, which for the nuclear end of it we need a sense of urgency.
▶ 1:03:24Chair Capito: Mr. graham.
▶ 1:03:26Mr. Graham: Thank you, chairman.
▶ 1:03:31Chair Capito: Did you have a comment on what the problems might be? How are we going to get to this exponential gigawatts that we need to add the tva? You probably dealt with this in florida. What are the stumbling blocks? What are the -- yeah, if you have a comment on that.
▶ 1:03:51Mr. Graham: Thank you, chairman. I think number one is to make sure that the numbers people are talking about is legitimate. Is this a pipe dream or is this actually going to come true? I believe it is.
▶ 1:04:04Chair Capito: You mean on the gigawatts side. Do we need all this?
▶ 1:04:08Mr. Graham: Yes. We need to measure it is verified. I think the biggest opportunities going to be nuclear, especially the smr's. That is one of the things I am most excited about being on the tva because we have the opportunity to make that happen and trying to make it happen as quick as we can. Once we have done that, we can use that as a template for everything else. I have seen what happened in georgia and how long that took.
▶ 1:04:39Mr. Graham: They went $16 billion over budget and it took an extra six years. Nobody wants to be the next one going down that path so I think smr will be the solution to that and I think tva is in position to be on top of that and have the sense of urgency moving forward.
▶ 1:04:54Chair Capito: Thank you. I will start with you this time. On economic development, I am particularly interested in this aspect of it being an appalachian myself. Not served by the tva but some very similar regions and pockets of our states that still have not developed.
▶ 1:05:15Chair Capito: And so how do you see tva being able to continue that mission but maybe change the mission, change the way the mission is delivered maybe for the remaining areas of the tva authority's area that have yet to be touched and be able to be a beneficiary of the economic developing opportunities?
▶ 1:05:35Mr. Graham: Thank you, senator, for that question. I think personally, the tva valley is primed for growth, prime for opportunity. I have come from manufacturing. I have had several years working in paper mills, several years working on power boilers. I think the main thing you will need, you will need land and access to water. I think tva, the valley area has an abundance of that.
▶ 1:06:02Mr. Graham: You can bring in opportunities that maybe cannot fit other places, that will not fit in new york city, that will not fit some places in miami, that sort of thing. I think it is a matter of making sure you chase after the right industries that fit in those locations. I can tell you being in jacksonville, we are a very promilitary town and have blue-collar people that put in 20 years and are looking for something to do afterwards.
▶ 1:06:29Mr. Graham: We just to argue all the time, do we chase after google or microsoft, or do we chase after some of the manufacturing? Because we have the workforce there. They can come in and go to work every single day and do the job. They already proved it by serving our country for 20 years.
▶ 1:06:43Chair Capito: Thank you. Do you mind? Ok, Mr. jones.
▶ 1:06:48Mr. Jones: Thank you for that question. It is near and dear to my heart being near the coast in alabama in a rural area, knowing what it takes to run a power line, a mobile home, supporting the road, and make sure they have sustainable affordable power, and those photo taken care of. At the same time, partnering with the local power companies. Weatherization to solar programs on rooftops, working that way right there and partnering.
▶ 1:07:20Mr. Jones: I think the local power comes important as far as ■economic growth.
▶ 1:07:26Chair Capito: Mr. hagood. I think you need the microphone.
▶ 1:07:30Mr. Hagood: Excuse me. Thank you for that question, and thank you for reminding me again. I need to be better at that. Senator, I could not help but think about broadband when you asked the question. Broadbent was not in the tv act of 1933.
▶ 1:07:51Mr. Hagood: Tva is not in the broadband business, but tva ought to do everything they can to help local telecoms and the local power providers make that happen, particularly in the rural areas, which I grew up in a rural area. It is very near and dear to my heart.
▶ 1:08:07Chair Capito: I agree with that wholeheartedly. Mr. graves.
▶ 1:08:12Mr. Graves: Thank you, senator. The tva act was for rural communities and to serve them. Not just with electricity, but bring economic development to those areas. We see that happening today in the tennessee valley. A great example is the blue oval plant in brownsville, tennessee, which is a rural community. That has brought jobs and economic development. I don't think it is changing the mission.
▶ 1:08:42Mr. Graves: I think it is refocusing back on our original mission.
▶ 1:08:44Chair Capito: Thank you. Mr. whitehouse.
▶ 1:08:48Sen. Whitehouse: Senator kelly is here under a bit of a time crunch.
▶ 1:08:52Chair Capito: Sure. Senator kelly, go forward.
▶ 1:08:56Sen. Kelly: Thank you, madam chair, senator whitehouse, and thank you nominees for being here today. It was nice to see you all in my office yesterday. I wanted to talk about one of the topics we discussed in that meeting, which is the data center construction across the country. My understanding is that tva, that region uses about 17,000 megawatt hours of energy on an hourly basis right now.
▶ 1:09:27Sen. Kelly: But some reports indicate that the tva region is seeing demand from data centers that could add an additional 11,000 megawatt hours to what is currently being used. While acknowledging these estimates may be bullish, we can reasonably expect the region will need to significantly increase the amount of energy or the amount of power it produces and the energy it consumes.
▶ 1:09:58Sen. Kelly: I recently put out a policy framework called ai for america, which argues that utilities need to make sure that the cost of adding new generation capacity is borne by these large power users. Not families and not small businesses who sometimes have to struggle to pay their utility bills.
▶ 1:10:18Sen. Kelly: This could include innovative power purchase agreements that better account for upfront costs and encourage long-term investments to make our aging grid more resilient. So I would like to hear from each of you on this. How would you handle the unprecedented demand from data centers in the tva region?
▶ 1:10:41Sen. Kelly: And how will you protect that -- ratepayers, how would you protect them from rate hikes caused by the demand? We will start with Mr. graves.
▶ 1:10:52Mr. Graves: Thank you for that question, senator. 100% agree with you. It cannot be on the back of ratepayers. We have an extremely high poverty level where I come from, and more utility expense on the back of their paycheck is just not doable. I do agree with you, power purchase agreements are something this board will need to look at. Again, ai is out of the bag. It is not going back in.
▶ 1:11:23Mr. Graves: So we have got to figure out how to deal with that and the energy demands for that. Thank you.
▶ 1:11:29Sen. Kelly: Mr. hagood.
▶ 1:11:32Mr. Hagood: Thank you, senator, for that question. Certainly enjoyed a few minutes with you yesterday. Thank you for that. I totally agree, costs should not be borne by large corporations and passed onto the back of our ratepayers. I am on the other end of the street from my calling to my right, but I grew up in a rural area. That is a very important issue to me. Thank you for the question.
▶ 1:12:02Sen. Kelly: Mr. jones.
▶ 1:12:04Mr. Jones: Thank you, and I enjoyed the time with you yesterday. Data centers, it is all I am hearing about, data centers everywhere. However, when they come in, what will it cost to supply the power for that? Where will they be five years from now? Who will be left holding the bag? There has to be a partnership. Through the bonds, if you are not here for 20 years, you will pay for this power.
▶ 1:12:34Mr. Jones: You cannot put it on the backs of the grandmother in alabama trying to feed two children.
▶ 1:12:39Sen. Kelly: And Mr. graham.
▶ 1:12:41Mr. Graham: Thank you you, senator. I agree with my colleagues. We have something we call cost causation. And basically, the cost causers to support the cause. We have to figure out an effective way of making sure that happens.
▶ 1:12:56Sen. Kelly: Do each of you agree that maybe we should consider a separate rate class for data centers?
▶ 1:13:06Mr. Graves: Thank you for the question, senator. That is something the board will explore in the future.
▶ 1:13:11Sen. Kelly: Ok.
▶ 1:13:13Mr. Hagood: Senator, thank you for that question. I think it is worthy of consideration. If confirmed, I certainly would look into that and be happy to report back to you about that.
▶ 1:13:23Sen. Kelly: Mr. jones.
▶ 1:13:24Mr. Jones: Absolutely a different rate class, but the same time, I hope the data centers pay for their own power they have provided themselves.
▶ 1:13:32Sen. Kelly: Mr. graham. Finally, this unprecedented demand for new energy, it is significant. We may have to double in one county the amount available. I think we need an approach that looks at all available, most available options. Gas, nuclear, hydropower, and renewables certainly like solar and wind.
▶ 1:14:02Sen. Kelly: So, quickly in the remaining time, do each of you feel we should consider renewable energy like solar, wind, battery storage as part of the solution?
▶ 1:14:13Mr. Graves: Thank you for the question, senator. Yes, I think we have to look at all energy generation. We are not going to have any option but to look at everything.
▶ 1:14:23Mr. Hagood: Yes, senator. Thank you. Everything should be on the table.
▶ 1:14:27Mr. Jones: Absolutely, yes.
▶ 1:14:29Mr. Graham: Yes, senator. I think a diverse grid is a resilient grade, so I agree.
▶ 1:14:35Sen. Kelly: Thank you. Thank you all. Thank you, madam chair.
▶ 1:14:38Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator wicker.
▶ 1:14:44Sen. Wicker: I'm going to distid chair use. I'm from mississippi. We already have our member on the board who is chairman of the tennessee valley authority board, whose turn does not expire until 2027. So, I'm glad the tennessee is getting two more, and now alabama will have its share.
▶ 1:15:20Sen. Wicker: Mississippi is actually the second-highest user of tva. Tennessee has 52% of the total area covered by tva, and after that it is mississippi. Alabama down 11%. We are not tennessee.
▶ 1:15:42Sen. Wicker: We can compare, and I can just say that tva, where it is available in mississippi, is quite appreciated and quite popular. There was some statement made about acting boldly, and I certainly want to commend, and I think I see from the testimony, madam chair and Mr. ranking member cotton that there is much appreciation for the bold action of tva in recent years.
▶ 1:16:14Sen. Wicker: The clinch river project will be one of the first at the forefront of nuclear development in the united states. Currently three years ahead of anyone else in terms of smr's. In my own state of mississippi we are benefiting from the rates that give us economic expansion.
▶ 1:16:45Sen. Wicker: Ge aerospace recently expanded. Near batesville, the golden triangle. The home of mississippi state university there in starkville is now home to five tva-certified mega sites. Plans to build simple cycle nuclear -- I mean natural gas plant.
▶ 1:17:13Sen. Wicker: And it is just astounding, the things that are happening. When complete, the new caledonia site in east mississippi will bring 500 megawatts to the grid and enough power, -- enough power to power to hunt a 50,000 homes, which is cruel -- quite a big area in a rural state like mississippi.
▶ 1:17:42Sen. Wicker: There is a company called oklo out of oak ridge in Mr. hagood's neighborhood. It has an advanced nuclear technology company that will invest nearly $1.7 billion to build fuel recycling in oak ridge, tennessee. Folks there are thrilled about this, and, again, it speaks to the vision of the current and past leadership.
▶ 1:18:15Sen. Wicker: The facility is located at a 247 hiking -- 247 acre site. There is also an outfit called intro one energy, will collaborate with tva to provide up to six gigawatts of new nuclear power generation on sites in tva's seven-state region.
▶ 1:18:41Sen. Wicker: And this will eventually be able to power the equivalent of approximately 4.5 million homes, or 60 of these new power-consuming data centers, which we are all concerned about and which I joined my friend, Mr. kelly, from. Google.
▶ 1:19:11Sen. Wicker: They are bringing transformational change in the nuclear energy area and fields to tva. Tva is the first U.S. ability -- utility to sign a ppa to provide electricity for an advanced reactor. It is the first deployment with google. And I could go on and on.
▶ 1:19:43Sen. Wicker: Not to mention the charities and nonprofits that tva supports. Bicentennial volunteers, 650 $5,000 in robotics awards, and, yes, tva prices are still something that we benefit from in appalachia, madam chair.
▶ 1:20:14Sen. Wicker: And I certainly appreciate that. I'm so impressed and I'm going to take some extra time, if you don't mind, and I know my friend from massachusetts won't mind, because I listened to him for over an hour yesterday in the commerce committee, and he is a dear friend of mine. But we just -- going through the testimony today, Mr.
▶ 1:20:38Sen. Wicker: Graves knows it well, and I grew up watching memphis tv. I'm so old that we did not have tv in tupelo, and we had to watch memphis until I got on up to the teenage years. And so, I know about mlgw. Mr.
▶ 1:21:06Sen. Wicker: Graves says memphis and the valley region are well served by tva. Thank you for saying that. We can do better, but I think most people in the memphis viewing area and a male gw area agree with that, and, madam chair, Mr. hagood's testimony is they had an opportunity to look at other providers that made outreach to them and said, we are going to stick with tva, because they have served us better and they will serve us better.
▶ 1:21:37Sen. Wicker: Mr. hagood says today tva contributes to drive energy production, economic development, and access to natural resources across the region. And, Mr.
▶ 1:21:51Sen. Wicker: Jones, as somebody who frequently goes by lake guntersville, and every chance I get to pickwick reservoir in the northeast corner of mississippi, yes. I mean, we love tva's power generation, and, yes, almost 10% is still hydropower, and that is renewable as far as I'm concerned.
▶ 1:22:21Sen. Wicker: But that wonderful lake guntersville, that is an economic engine for the area, and the same for pickwick reservoir. And Mr. jones says even now our residential power rates remain 30% below those of neighboring providers. This is a great testimony, and kudos to the president, my colleagues, for bringing someone in from outside the tva area.
▶ 1:22:51Sen. Wicker: To bring some new thought. Mr. graham, he knows what he is doing. It is obvious because he has been doing this in jacksonville, but he is also aware of this nimby issue.
▶ 1:23:10Sen. Wicker: In his testimony he says he is aware of the knot in my backyard people, and there has got to be a balance here, because somebody's backyard has got to generate power, and we need to be mindful of those folks, but we also need to be mindful that it has got to come from somewhere, and also I appreciate Mr.
▶ 1:23:36Sen. Wicker: Graham saying we cannot prematurely close down current generation and make the -- and make the contribution to generation that Mr. kelly and others have alluded to. We are going to have to do it right, and yes, nuclear and renewable is the way to go.
▶ 1:23:57Sen. Wicker: So, I appreciate the acknowledgment from these fine witnesses, who I intend to vote for, in acknowledging the contribution and the great work that tva has done, and, yes, the economic development and jobs are there, and I look forward to the board, which has been working mighty hard, but did not have a quorum, being
▶ 1:24:28Sen. Wicker: Complemented by these witnesses. Think you for that. -- thank you for that extended five minutes, madam chair.
▶ 1:24:35Chair Capito: Senator whitehouse.
▶ 1:24:37Sen. Whitehouse: Thank you to all of the nominees, thank you to your visit -- for your visit to my office yesterday. Unlike Mr. hagood I did not have the wisdom to start my own practice, but spent my early years as the junior new kid in the attorney general's office where they came in and handed me utility regulation. Nobody else wanted it. I was the new kid. I had to do it, and I have learned a lot from those early days.
▶ 1:25:06Sen. Whitehouse: In one of the things I have learned is that the way the grid works is that usually they run constantly because they are low marginal cost, and solar comes on next, because it is the next lower operating cost, followed by wind, and then the grid price set by the most expensive unit that has to be called up is almost always a fossil fuel unit.
▶ 1:25:35Sen. Whitehouse: And so, if you remove clean energy from the grid what you are doing is requiring the same level of demand that more and more expensive fossil fueled-power units get called up. That raises costs for everybody on the grid. In most grids, where that last unit called up is the price center.
▶ 1:25:57Sen. Whitehouse: I know it is a little bit different on the tva grid, where you use a more blended grid, but I think the principle holds that if you suppress the lower-cost forms of power you drive prices up for your ratepayers, even if it is only on an average basis and not on a grid-wide basis.
▶ 1:26:18Sen. Whitehouse: In that light I would like to ask if each of you will honor the board-approved retirement timelines for the kingston and cumberland coal-generating stations? We will just go right across, if you don't mind. >> thank you for that question, senator. I think it is a little bit more complicated than answering yes or no. I think we have got to use all of our energy sources right now to beat the demand.
▶ 1:26:49Sen. Whitehouse: And I think you heard me mention earlier the integrated resource plan, which ought to be the strategy document for tva. We have looked at that at a very high level, but we are going to have to dig into the details --
▶ 1:27:02Sen. Whitehouse: Do you plan to honor the existing resource plan? Are you going to change that? >> I think we will have a new integrated resource plan within the year.
▶ 1:27:12Sen. Whitehouse: Is that the same answer across the board? Anyone prepared to commit to honoring the cumberland and kingston station plan? >> thank you, senator. My answer would be the same as my colleague.
▶ 1:27:28Sen. Whitehouse: Mr. jones, same?
▶ 1:27:31Mr. Jones: Until I am confirmed I would like to look into this and see, because I do believe the renewables -- >> pre-much the same answer.
▶ 1:27:41Sen. Whitehouse: One of the things I wanted an answer on. If you go to the kingston station and the cumberland station, they boil water with coal, but the steam then runs through steam turbines and that runs generators that send out power through transformers that link to the grid connections and transmission lines.
▶ 1:28:13Sen. Whitehouse: In addition to all of that mechanical, electrical infrastructure, you also have the all-important community infrastructure of the workforce there. The men and women who have the expert knowledge and experience to run those facilities.
▶ 1:28:26Sen. Whitehouse: So, I want to ask each of you to assure me that you will give an honest, hard look at whether small modular reactors create the opportunity to boil that water at the stations and protect the rest of the infrastructure and the workforce around it while still meeting the board-approved goals regarding the -- those two
▶ 1:28:56Sen. Whitehouse: Stations. >> ranking member cotton we talked about that yesterday. I found that to be an intriguing concept, and, yes, I think we should explore that. It should lower the cost of the program as well in timeframe if we can leave portions of it in place and only replace the heating elements.
▶ 1:29:15Sen. Whitehouse: If you try to locate a new modular reactor station system somewhere and you have to start from scratch and you have to deal with siting issues and you have to build the steam turbines, the generators, the transmission, and the workforce, you are in a much different proposition anymore. Most of that is already there and you are just boiling water in a new, cleaner, safer way. >> has a said, yes, I found that intriguing.
▶ 1:29:44Sen. Whitehouse: Will you take an honest look at it? >> yes sir. >> senator, thank you. I certainly would take an honest, hard look at it. >> yes. Again, we talk about nuclear. We've got to have the sense of urgency to make this happen and then to put it in place.
▶ 1:30:04Sen. Whitehouse: Mr. graham?
▶ 1:30:06Mr. Graham: I think it is a fantastic idea. When you are talking about new nuclear and you have to nuclear rise the entire site, I don't think you do that. I think you just do a black box. Where the power is generated you don't have to worry about the water and steam generation. Just that area. I think in your scenario you can take that same black box and put it anyway.
▶ 1:30:32Mr. Graham: I think it is a great way of retrofitting old plants.
▶ 1:30:37Sen. Whitehouse: Like time has expired, but let me ask each of you to be responsive to the questions for the record that I'm going to file for you to answer. You can take more than five minutes and reflect a bit first.
▶ 1:30:51Sen. Whitehouse: But in particular I'm going to be asking you to reflect upon the fact that I believe is true, that if you suppress wind and solar power, and perhaps battery support for wind and solar power, you are virtually inevitably raising costs for your tva ratepayers at the end of the day. So, thank you.
▶ 1:31:12Chair Capito: Thank you. Senator markey.
▶ 1:31:16Sen. Markey: Thank you, madam chair. I'm a big fan of public power. I know communities and labor as well. Why? Because it is a win-win-win. Local power puts communities before investor profits. It pays workers what they deserve. And it keeps energy affordable. Because of this public power model the tennessee valley authority's electricity is cheaper than over 70% of our nation.
▶ 1:31:49Sen. Markey: So, yes and no. Going down the line, do you support the privatization of tva? Yes and no? >> no. >> thank you, senator, for that question. The answer is, no.
▶ 1:32:03Mr. Jones: No sir.
▶ 1:32:04Mr. Graham: Senator, thank you for that question. I have experienced both public utility and investor-owned utility, and I think there is absolutely no reason to do anything different here.
▶ 1:32:17Sen. Markey: The answer is no? >> I believe that is correct, yes.
▶ 1:32:21Sen. Markey: I just want to dig a little deeper. Yes and no going down the line, do you agree not to sell off any portions of the service region, including hydro-or public land assets? >> I don't think that is the board's decision. We uphold the tva act, which is why you guys.
▶ 1:32:51Sen. Markey: Do you agree not to sell off any portions of the service region? Mr. hagood?
▶ 1:32:58Mr. Hagood: I agree with my calling. That would be my answer.
▶ 1:33:03Mr. Jones: Yes sir. I do not see any reason to sell any of tva's assets off.
▶ 1:33:09Sen. Markey: That is the correct answer. Yes?
▶ 1:33:12Mr. Graham: Until I hear something different I don't see any need to make any changes as far as selling off assets.
▶ 1:33:18Sen. Markey: Thank you. At a time when utility bills are going up because of trump's anti-energy policies it is more important than ever to have public power that is responsive to the region's main street needs, not wall street shareholders. And privatization would be a direct threat to both tva customers and tva's workforce.
▶ 1:33:45Sen. Markey: Yes and no, do you agree to maintain wrong collective bargaining relationships and protect good paying union jobs? Mr. graves?
▶ 1:33:54Mr. Graves: Thank you, senator. I have not read the collective bargaining, but I agree to do that and make a decision after I am fully --
▶ 1:34:05Sen. Markey: Mr. hagood?
▶ 1:34:07Mr. Hagood: Mr. senator, thank you for that question. I believe tva's employees as of six months or a year ago our 57% union, so the answer is yes.
▶ 1:34:17Sen. Markey: You would make a commitment to continue collective bargaining?
▶ 1:34:21Mr. Hagood: I would make every commitment into -- to look into that --
▶ 1:34:25Sen. Markey: That is not a commitment. Mr. jones?
▶ 1:34:29Mr. Jones: Yes sir, I would.
▶ 1:34:32Mr. Graham: Senator, I think it is working very well right now. I have no desire to get in there and make that change.
▶ 1:34:39Sen. Markey: We need a commitment to public power. We need a commitment to public power employees. Union workers who are doing the job right now. This is an astonishing number, but only 4% of tva's energy portfolio is currently comprised of wind or solar. Just a staggeringly-low number.
▶ 1:35:02Sen. Markey: By comparison in my own home state of massachusetts, where senator schiff was born and raised as a boy, still a red sox fan, that it is not the sunniest place, massachusetts, but last year 25% of our electricity came from wind and solar. Only 4% in the tva. It is a lot sunnier.
▶ 1:35:27Sen. Markey: So, the good news is that the tva has a large stock of carbon-free power and has recognized the benefits of moving towards clean, reliable, affordable energy. Setting a target of 10,000 megawatts of solar by 2035 and zero emissions by 2050. Yes and no, going down the line, do you commit to a hearing of tva's target to reach and zero emissions by 2050? Mr. graves?
▶ 1:36:01Mr. Graves: Senator, that is tough to answer yes or no to. I think we are in the middle of an integrated resource plan which is taking a look at future demand and our energy --
▶ 1:36:12Sen. Markey: Tva has a stated goal. To be zero by the year 2050. Do you commit to fulfilling that plan?
▶ 1:36:23Mr. Graves: Senator, I commit to making sure we have enough power to take care of our citizens.
▶ 1:36:28Sen. Markey: You are not committing? Yeah. Mr. hagood?
▶ 1:36:32Mr. Hagood: Senator, thank you for that question. I think because of the great power need I think that probably has to be reevaluated.
▶ 1:36:41Sen. Markey: I think I can hear with the two of you are saying pretty clear. Mr. jones?
▶ 1:36:46Mr. Jones: Senator, currently over 50% of the power generated by tva is carbon-free. So, we hope to keep striving on that. Also, on the 4%, I would love to also include hydro, which is the original renewable resource.
▶ 1:37:02Sen. Markey: I appreciate that. How about 100%?
▶ 1:37:08Mr. Jones: That makes us 13%.
▶ 1:37:10Sen. Markey: Is the answer yes?
▶ 1:37:12Mr. Jones: I cannot promise that is going to happen, because of the need for power.
▶ 1:37:17Sen. Markey: 16% is all you have right now. It is said. Mr. graham?
▶ 1:37:23Mr. Graham: Thank you, senator. Can I get you to repeat the question, please?
▶ 1:37:29Sen. Markey: You commit to tva's target to reach and zero emissions by 2050? It is the existing goal of the tva.
▶ 1:37:37Mr. Graham: I commit to looking into it.
▶ 1:37:46Sen. Markey: Well, again, tva should be the cutting edge leader. They are already on third base with a lead. You have incredible resources down there. It is sunny almost every in that region, which is not in massachusetts. I think it is -- it is a pretty sad commentary that we are not getting a more enthusiastic response to the goal of renewables and meeting the goal which was established years ago, which was eminently achievable. It is ill a continuing, sad commentary on the vision that tva has.
▶ 1:38:16Chair Capito: Senator schiff.
▶ 1:38:19Sen. Schiff: Thank you, madam chair. As is often the case, senator markey asked many of the questions I was going to ask. I will not repeat those questions for you. I appreciate the opportunity we had to meet in my office. I share senator markey's view. Public power has helped keep energy affordable in tva.
▶ 1:38:40Sen. Schiff: It has attracted industry for decades going back to the establishment of the tva under franklin delano roosevelt's new deal. I think that public power model is the best path forward for tva and I was glad to hear in our conversations, and again, in committee, that you are committed to retaining the public power model.
▶ 1:39:06Sen. Schiff: I strongly disagree with any effort at privatization of tva assets or selling away the resources of tva, which has proven so successful. I also think it is vitally important that you honor the collective bargaining agreements that are in force and you make it possible for people to collectively bargain and make the choice to form a union or not form a union, that that be
▶ 1:39:37Sen. Schiff: Free and unfettered. I -- let me turn to the last topic the senator asked about, but maybe with one specific. I understand the tva board approved the retirement of two of the four coal plants in tva's service area. The 2020 five integrated resource plan forecasts that all coal units 12 entire by 2035.
▶ 1:40:02Sen. Schiff: You committed to maintaining the course with the 2020 five integrated resource plan when it comes to coal retirement? Mr. graves?
▶ 1:40:10Mr. Graves: Thank you for the question, senator. I do believe we need to maintain as a public utility company. It may be a struggle to meet those targets just because of the increased demand. Again, we hope to be able to learn more and figure out how to move forward with our integrated resource plan, which is going to tell us what we need and how we fulfill that need.
▶ 1:40:43Mr. Graves: So, I think right now it may be hard to meet those targets.
▶ 1:40:46Sen. Schiff: I think a lot of that increased demand may come from data centers. In connection with negotiations over companies that want to establish data centers, there is an opportunity for you to maintain the climate goals that have been set and maintain the retirement schedule that has been set for the coal plants. I don't think generically-increased demand is a reason to continue coal plants that have properly been scheduled for retirement. But, Mr.
▶ 1:41:15Sen. Schiff: Hagood, what is your view?
▶ 1:41:16Mr. Hagood: Senator, thank you for meeting with us yesterday. I do think it would be hard to meet those goals.
▶ 1:41:22Sen. Schiff: So you are not committed to retiring the coal plants been?
▶ 1:41:27Mr. Hagood: With the situation with the great power demand in our country, senator, I don't think I can.
▶ 1:41:33Sen. Schiff: So, if it is necessary to accommodate new data centers, your view would be , let's keep the coal plants going rather than, let's require the data centers to participate in generation of cleaner energy?
▶ 1:41:49Mr. Hagood: Senator, thank you. My goal would be that -- two -- everything is on the table to meet the growing power demand. That would be my answer.
▶ 1:42:03Sen. Schiff: Mr. jones?
▶ 1:42:05Mr. Jones: Senator, if confirmed that this will be one of my top row it look into this. Because the data centers are going to require so much power. But there was an article in the "wall street journal" this week about bring your own power. Those data centers can be bringing in carbon-free power to sustain the power for them, which in turn would take less stress off of our grid and our power generation, and increase more solar power and hydro.
▶ 1:42:35Mr. Jones: I'm a big fan of hydro.
▶ 1:42:40Sen. Schiff: Mr. jones, I agree to a point. That is, when you say you hope that these data centers and companies behind them would bring in renewable energy, you will have the power to insist that that is where the new energy comes from. Your communities are going to suffer whatever deleterious impacts there are from these data centers. They may not create many jobs.
▶ 1:43:06Sen. Schiff: And if it is going to mean the coal plants remain open longer and people suffer the ill health effects, and don't get many jobs as a result, that doesn't look like a good bargain to me. So, I would ask you to keep that very much in mind. Mr. graham, did you want to add anything on the question?
▶ 1:43:24Mr. Graham: Senator, thank you very much for the question. Data centers are all over the board. There is people excited about it, and then there are people that don't want it in their backyard. You are not here earlier. We talked about the number one job is for us to figure out how much power generation we are going to need moving forward. Today, tomorrow, next year, five years.
▶ 1:43:47Mr. Graham: Once we figure out how much we need generation-wise I cannot see prematurely closing out some of these other plants until we have the generation to replace it. I'm not saying you can come up until -- but until we have the generation you can't.
▶ 1:44:00Sen. Schiff: Madam chair, I would say just conclude, I'm glad you all expressed solid support for maintaining the public character of tva. And I hope never to learn that, should you be confirmed for these positions, that you do an about-face on that issue, which is of singular importance to me and I think a lot of members of congress with that, I yield back.
▶ 1:44:24Chair Capito: I think that will bring our meeting to a conclusion. I would like for the record to ask for an -- for unanimous consent so that I have leverage -- letters of support for various nominees. I will order it myself. I'm not going to object to myself. I look forward to your confirmation. I will be voting for all of you.
▶ 1:44:53Chair Capito: I think the expertise you bring while varied is extremely needed on the board and we obviously have challenges ahead of us. Coming from a coal state, I have to say that we have power generations of this country for years, and you're going to continue to do that. Until we find a better way. And that is what you all basically were, I think, signifying to us in your answers. I thank you for that.
▶ 1:45:23Chair Capito: With no further questions I would like to thank the nominees and all of my colleagues for participation in today's hearing. Senators who wish to submit written questions for the record have until 5:00 p.m. This friday to do so. The nominees' responses to those questions are due back to the committee no later than the close of business on monday, october 27, and will be submitted for the record.
▶ 1:45:47Chair Capito: I will note, ranking member whitehouse did make the comment that he will be submitting some questions to you, so I would pay attention to that end those dates I expressed. With that, this hearing is adjourned, and thank you very much. Good luck.