▶ 0:18:49Chair Cruz: Good morning, senate committee on commerce, science, and transportation will come to order. We will hear from three nominees. John deleeuw, of texas, to be a member of the national transportation safety board. Richard kloster to be a member of the surface transportation board.
▶ 0:19:14Chair Cruz: And michelle schultz to continue to be a member of the surface transportation board. The impacts the continued government shutdown is having on americans' lives.
▶ 0:19:27Chair Cruz: Almost a month ago cnn quoted a senior democratic aide as saying that senate democrats would not reopen the government short of " planes falling out of the sky." given the tragic accident we saw this week, sadly senate democrats seem to be more than willing to put that theory to the test.
▶ 0:19:55Chair Cruz: Yesterday, transportation secretary sean duffy and faa administrator brian bedford announced that beginning tomorrow morning there will be a 10% mandatory reduction in flights at 40 airports across the nation. The safety data that the faa relies on to keep the system safe was blinking red.
▶ 0:20:17Chair Cruz: There are too many key staffers calling out because they are not getting paid and having to save every penny and find ways to make ends meet. Tens of thousands of americans will have their flights canceled every single day, due entirely to senate democrats.
▶ 0:20:40Chair Cruz: With a few notable exceptions, virtually all of whom have voted now 14 times to keep the government shutdown, and they have taken the government and air traffic control system hostage. Air traffic controllers are unpaid, they are frustrated, and they are fatigued. A plane crashed in louisville this week. The ntsb investigators on scene aren't getting paid.
▶ 0:21:14Chair Cruz: The impacts of this shutdown are real and becoming dangerous. And understand the reason there is a 10% reduction in flights is the faa said they could not maintain the airspace safely at full load. That is the consequence of this shutdown and the schumer shutdown needs to end. It is the longest shutdown in the history of the united states of america and enough is enough. Now is a time for responsible leadership.
▶ 0:21:46Chair Cruz: Now I will turn to today' is nominees. Let's begin with john deleeuw, a proud texan of nearly 40 years. Mr. deleeuw is an accomplished safety professional and airline captain who began his aviation career in the air force flying c-130 hercules planes supporting combat missions in desert storm. After his military service Mr. deleeuw joined american airlines after eight -- as a line captain and first officer in 1990 one.
▶ 0:22:17Chair Cruz: After 20 plus years of flying for american he then led the airline's safety initiatives for more than a decade. He also served as chairman of the american pilots association's national safety committee and teaches aviation safety courses at the university of southern california.
▶ 0:22:37Chair Cruz: As I've seen from the investigation into the flight -- the crash of the flight 5342 near dca, the ntsb needs knowledgeable and experienced members to keep our transportation system safe. Mr. deleeuw will draw on his extensive aviation safety background to investigate accidents and propose recommendations to prevent future harm.
▶ 0:23:04Chair Cruz: He is, without a doubt, one of the most decorated and qualified individuals to come before us. His resume is a perfect match for the ntsb. We are also joined today by ntsb chairwoman jennifer homendy who is such a regular in this committee we may have to find her a seat on the dais. I appreciate her being here. As she said about Mr.
▶ 0:23:28Chair Cruz: Deleeuw's nomination in september, john has an extensive background in aviation safety and has worked alongside the ntsb for decades. He often uses lessons learned to improve safety throughout transportation, including oil and pipelines and maritime. John will be an excellent addition to the board if confirmed. Next, we have richard kloster to serve on the stb. Mr.
▶ 0:23:57Chair Cruz: Kloster is a seasoned railroad with railroad w -- he has worked for several railroads including the chicago northwestern transportation company and the indiana railroad company. Mr. kloster also founded his own transportation consulting firm and served as a board member of the real ray -- railway supply institute. If confirmed, Mr.
▶ 0:24:24Chair Cruz: Kloster will use his extensive knowledge of the rail industry and his experience working for railroads, suppliers, and shippers to advance the stb's economic oversight of freight. Lastly, president trump has renominated michelle schultz to continue to serve on the stb. Ms. schultz' decades of legal and transportation experience have served her well on the stb.
▶ 0:24:53Chair Cruz: Prior to joining stb in january 2021, she spent 14 years leading legislative affairs and legal strategy at the southeastern pennsylvania transportation authority, the nation's sixth largest public transportation system. As vice chairman of the stb, Ms. schultz has prioritized engaging with stakeholders to improve freight real service quality and efficiency at the agency.
▶ 0:25:20Chair Cruz: If confirmed, she will continue to be a diligent thoughtful member of the stb, working to advance essential oversight of the railroads. My democrat colleagues have sought to delay and derail this hearing based on the president's exercise of his article 2 power. The focus of today should be plain and simple. Supporting transportation safety and real competition -- a real competition.
▶ 0:25:49Chair Cruz: The individuals above before us are well equipped to serve on the ntsb and stb. I'm eager to hear how each of you will approach your roles in ensuring the overall strength and safety of our transportation system. Senator lujan is sitting in for ranking member cantwell.
▶ 0:26:11Sen. Ray Lujan: Thank you, Mr. chairman. As we get started today I appreciate your remarks in opening. For anyone who is not aware, across america the majority of the house of representatives is republicans. The speaker of the house of representatives is a republican. The majority of the united states senate is republican.
▶ 0:26:42Sen. Ray Lujan: The majority leader of the united states senate is a republican. President of the united states is a republican. Republicans have the majority. They are in charge. With majorities with the gavels comes responsibility. The senator from texas is the chair of this committee because republicans are in the majority.
▶ 0:27:11Sen. Ray Lujan: We had a governor from the state of new mexico, and bruce used to tell us when folks could not find some solution. He would say you have to lock people up in a barn and not let them out until they can come up with a solution to the problem. My friend from texas understands that. They have cattle ranches down there, good barns down there. The president of the united states has been jet setting around the world and he decided to come back and celebrate with a roaring 20's party in florida.
▶ 0:27:43Sen. Ray Lujan: Roaring 20's. That was a difficult time in our nation's history, because those parties were about celebrating folks being broke, people not having food. And they had that party on, I don't know, tuesday or wednesday? Wednesday the president had a breakfast at the white house. He should have more breakfasts, but he only invited senate republicans.
▶ 0:28:10Sen. Ray Lujan: In that meeting he told them, the shutdown is not good on republicans. He knows they are in charge. I hope the president will stick to his words when he says, incumbent on the president of the united states to prevent shutdowns, solve shutdowns. I certainly hope that even where there are differences the people can come into a room and do the right thing. Everyone wants the shutdown to end. I don't think my republican colleagues want insurance premiums to double. I really don't.
▶ 0:28:40Sen. Ray Lujan: They care about their constituents the way I care about my constituents, and I'm certainly hopeful we will see some leadership now reached the people together, get some breakfast. If they need some chilie to make it better I will bring it. With my opening here, congratulations on your nominations.
▶ 0:29:04Sen. Ray Lujan: Before I get to my questions, I am deeply disturbed and frankly alarmed at the community's rushing ahead with this nomination to replace the ntsb vice chair alvin brown who president trump illegally removed earlier. This year. Anyone who looks at the rules surrounding this, plain and simple. The facts are straightforward. The senate unanimously confirmed vice chair brown last year, and his term does not expire until the end of next year.
▶ 0:29:33Sen. Ray Lujan: The president removed him without complying with the law that congress passed. Plain and simple. Now, folks are choosing to look the other way and advance his replacement even though there is not a clear vacancy to fill under the law.as the chair knows, last week my democratic colleagues and I sent a letter conveying a strong opposition of proceeding with brown's replacement.
▶ 0:29:59Sen. Ray Lujan: As we rode in that letter, I believe rushing this process forward well there is active litigation over this issue only emboldens the white house to ignore the law. By holding this hearing, republicans are -- at this behavior. I will urge my colleagues not to proceed with this ntsb nomination until the ongoing litigation is conclusively resolved on its merits.
▶ 0:30:24Sen. Ray Lujan: Some might say this is all inside baseball, too far removed from the day-to-day lives of americans, but these are not just academic musings. The ntsb like many independent agencies work every day to help americans to help americans stay safe by seeking to unravel its independent status and inject uncertainty and politicize the board, the administration is undermining the ntsb's ability to formulate independent safety recommendations and save people's lives.
▶ 0:30:51Sen. Ray Lujan: Captain deleeuw, I wish your nomination came under different circumstances because I acknowledge your experience. I imagine any other time if there was an opening you would probably get a unanimous vote here come off the floor, and everywhere else. Your credentials and qualifications are clear. This is not about you at all, at all. I applaud your service and what you've done and what you've achieved.
▶ 0:31:21Sen. Ray Lujan: Given your current employment with american airlines, you will need to recuse yourself from working on the ntsb investigation into the january 29 D.C. midair collision. I hope you will make clear today that you understand the vital importance of an independent ntsb and out of respect for that independence and rule of law I hope you will commit to stepping aside for the court.
▶ 0:31:48Sen. Ray Lujan: In addition to the ntsb we have two nominations for the surface transportation board. Mr. kloster you will be joining after a long career in the rail industry and Ms. schultz you will be nominated for a second term. The stb is another critical role in protecting businesses and consumers from unfair business practices that harm competition in the rail industry. If confirmed you will be responsible for reviewing the merger between union pacific and norfolk southern.
▶ 0:32:18Sen. Ray Lujan: I would point out the earlier this year president trump unlawfully removed ntsb member without cause. He is also actively challenging his removal in court. For the record I will note that neither of today's stb nominations would replace Mr. primus if confirmed.
▶ 0:32:37Sen. Ray Lujan: Nevertheless the president's action against him only underscores what we need your firm commitment you will carry out your duties independent of improper political influence if confirmed. Thank you.
▶ 0:32:51Chair Cruz: Thank you, senator lujan. I would note that witnesses would be asked at the beginning of their testimony to tell the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth. One of the most important elements is the second element, the whole truth. Senator lujan what he said is correct. True. Republicans have a majority in the house, the senate, and the white house because the american people voted for republicans in 20 24. They voted for president trump.
▶ 0:33:23Chair Cruz: They voted for a republican majority in the senate and the house. The whole truth that senator lujan knows well but omitted is under the senate rules funding for the government cannot proceed in the senate without 60 votes. Senator lujan is very well aware of that. There are only 53 republicans in the senate. In order to fund the government at least seven democrats have to vote to fund the government.
▶ 0:33:51Chair Cruz: So the phrase which is vastly used that republicans control everything you guys should fund it is said deliberately playing on the fact that many people don't know you need 60 votes to proceed to fund the government. I would note that senator lujan knows that in part because when joe biden was president -- this is not a new situation. When joe biden was president 13 times senate republicans joined with democrats to pass a clean continuing resolution.
▶ 0:34:21Chair Cruz: We could have done the same thing. When joe biden was present the democrats did not have 60 votes. What differed is when joe biden was president republicans demonstrated responsibility. We didn't shut the government down. Every democrat in this body, you can play video after video of them going on tv, and toning a government shutdown is irresponsible, reckless, it hurts americans. They have said that repeatedly.
▶ 0:34:50Chair Cruz: We had this situation happened earlier this year in march. Government funding expired. What happened? In march a handful of senate democrats did the responsible thing and joined with republicans in keeping the government open. Within then a political problem developed, which is chuck schumer, the democrat leader in the senate, almost lost his job. The extreme left wing of the democrat party got very, very angry that the democrats without the government to open.
▶ 0:35:21Chair Cruz: And schumer is very afraid of being primary from the left. The election results on tuesday underscore the great political peril schumer sees from the extreme left in the party. So, why are we in the longer shut down in history? For one reason. For senator schumer and senate democrats to demonstrate to the extreme left wing of their party that they really, really, really hate donald trump. Well, we got that point.
▶ 0:35:50Chair Cruz: Every federal employee who hasn't gotten a paycheck got that point. We understand. Nobody will be confused that my democratic colleagues are sleeping at night with a donald trump nightlight on the wall. We know their view. Senator lujan said, we just need to find a path forward. We know the path forward. The exact same path forward that we took 13 times when biden was president.
▶ 0:36:19Chair Cruz: The path forward is voting to fund the government and passing a clean continuing resolution. The path forward is literally the turn of a wrist. When we vote on a continuing resolution instead of doing this, rotate your wrist 180 degrees. That is how we open the government. We have had three senate democrats show the courage to vote to keep the government open.
▶ 0:36:47Chair Cruz: Senator fetterman, a member of this committee, has said candidly, this is a democrat shutdown. For the sake of the tsa agents, for the sake of the air traffic controllers, for the sake of the flying public, let's not test that idiot democrat staffer who told politico we will keep the government shutdown until planes start falling from the sky. That's not funny. I do believe my colleagues on the democrat side.
▶ 0:37:16Chair Cruz: They don't want to see that happen. But every day that they starve the system of the resources it needs they increase the chances of a tragedy like that occurring. Mr. deleeuw, you are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:37:31Mr. Deleeuw: Thank you, chairman cruz ranking member cantwell, , senator lujan, and members of the committee. It's an honor to appear before you today as you consider my nomination to be a member of the national transportation safety board. I am immensely grateful to president trump for nominating me as this is a lifelong dream.
▶ 0:37:53Mr. Deleeuw: As a safety professional who has worked alongside the ntsb for nearly two decades, I cannot think of a greater privilege than to serve the public at the world's pre-eminent safety investigation agency whose sole mission is to save lives. Before I begin, I would like to recognize some of my family and friends. Though they aren't able to be with me today in person, my wife, kim, is watching this hearing online with my mom, ruby, in tucson, arizona.
▶ 0:38:21Mr. Deleeuw: My son, peter, and his wife, meredith, have blessed kim and me with two grandchildren, mason and mabel. My daughter, julia, and her husband, peter, recently welcomed into the world our grandson, liam. My sister, jane, and my brother, howard, also deserve recognition for letting me be their big brother. I would also like to recognize my colleagues in the safety department at american airlines who are also watching online and have provided me with incredible support and encouragement.
▶ 0:38:51Mr. Deleeuw: It is a privilege to work with amazing safety professionals at american and throughout the industry. Special thanks to cedric wilson, david seymour, and the entire american airlines a senior leadership team, for their assistance. There are three things I would like for you to know as you consider my nomination for the board. First, I am passionate about safety.
▶ 0:39:18Mr. Deleeuw: I was fortunate to serve our country as a pilot in the united states air force for seven and a half years. In that time, several of my fellow crew members were killed in the line of duty flying military aircraft. Many of these accidents could have been avoided, and I was determined to learn from each of them. In some cases, that meant changing a procedure. Other times, it meant improving education and training, but the
▶ 0:39:39Goal Was Always The Same: To prevent a similar accident from . -- accident from happening. After serving in desert storm, I was hired as a pilot for american airlines and am currently a captain on the boeing 787 dreamliner with over 19,000 flight hours. Seeking to fully immerse myself in safety I volunteered my time and efforts with the allied pilots association, which represents the pilots of american airlines.
▶ 0:40:10Goal Was Always The Same: Mr. chairman, asked the letter supporting my nomination from the allied pilots association, southwest pilots association and many others be included in the hearing record. Second, the ntsb saves lives. As I mentioned, I work -- I have worked closely the ntsb for more than 15 years and have enormous respect for the board members and staff.
▶ 0:40:33Goal Was Always The Same: As the american airlines party coordinator on ntsb investigations, I know firsthand the efforts and time the ntsb commits to accident investigations, family assistance and safety recommendations. If confirmed, I will be a strong advocate for implementation of those recommendations. As chairwoman homendy often says, the investigation is only the first step. Real safety change occurs after recommendations are implemented, and improvements are made.
▶ 0:41:01Goal Was Always The Same: Third, I believe we can continue -- I believe there are opportunities to facilitate information sharing across modes of transportation and bring the different modes together to share lessons learned. A cross modal approach will further the ntsb's mission of preventing accidents and saving lives. One of the reasons I'm here today is the tragic midair collision involving a U.S.
▶ 0:41:25Goal Was Always The Same: Army helicopter and flight 5342 earlier this year, the accident site not far from where we sit. It's been one of the most difficult situations I have faced in my entire career. I was in the family assistance center within days of the accident. I saw firsthand the devastation, the tremendous loss, and the work the ntsb did to bring every resource available to grieving families.
▶ 0:41:51Goal Was Always The Same: I am confident the ntsb is doing the same thing right now in louisville, kentucky is they investigate tuesday's tragedy. I offer my sincere condolences to the victims' families impacted by the event. It is our duty, collectively, to learn from each tragedy, to draw knowledge to improve the safety of us all.
▶ 0:42:13Goal Was Always The Same: If confirmed, I would consider it a great honor and privilege to serve my country once again and commit to working with this committee to improve safety across all modes of transportation. Thank you again for this opportunity and I look forward , to answering your questions.
▶ 0:42:30Chair Cruz: Thank you. Mr. kloster, you are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:42:40Mr. Kloster: Thank you, senator. I would like to begin saying thank you to chairman cruz, ranking member cantwell, and all the distinguished members of the senate commerce, science, and transportation committee. I am honored to appear before you today as you consider my nomination to be a member of the surface transportation board. I am also grateful to president trump for his nomination. I've spent my whole career working in the rail industry.
▶ 0:43:10Mr. Kloster: It began at a wisconsin rail yard during the third week of october of 1980. For those who don't remember, that was the same week the staggers rail act was signed into law. I was young, just out of college, and didn't really know what a railroad was all about. I remember telling my dad that I was going to work for the railroad.
▶ 0:43:37Mr. Kloster: He was a softspoken wwii veteran farmer from south dakota, but he was so proud and wouldn't stop talking about all the family members that had worked for the railroad. There were a lot of stories. I had no idea. But to me, it still was just a job. Something I needed since I was soon getting married to the love of my life.
▶ 0:43:51Mr. Kloster: As for my new job, the scale, the grandeur, and the importance of the royal the country -- of the railroad to the country hadn't yet been impressed on me. That would come later. The rail industry, for its part, had lost its way and was in disarray. It was the staggers act that provided a lifeline for what people at the time were calling a dying industry. It would take some time, but a rail renaissance would emerge. As would my love for the industry.
▶ 0:44:21Mr. Kloster: My time with that first class I railroad would lead to working for a regional railroad, and then a shortline railroad. Both of which were class I spinoffs that were made possible by the staggers act. During this time my knowledge and experience of railroad commercial, operational and strategic matters would grow immensely. After some time off for graduate school, I moved over to the rail supply chain, working for the largest railcar lessor in the industry.
▶ 0:44:47Mr. Kloster: This is where my understanding of all the different facets of equipment supply to the industry would emerge, covering the complete ecosystem from builders, to lessors, to shops, component suppliers, and others. Then finally, about 17 years ago, I started a successful strategic consulting firm specializing in the railroad and rail equipment sectors. These last 17 years have allowed me to expand and round out my knowledge even more, adding m&a, financial, regulatory, technical, and other expertise.
▶ 0:45:19Mr. Kloster: So, when I look back 45 years , I see both me and the rail industry starting a new life together. Beginning a new journey. One I had no idea at the time I would embark on but glad I did. And I look back over this time, I see all the incredible changes and growth that have transpired in both me and the rail industry. I wouldn't change a thing. Which brings me back to the last thing, why am I here today?
▶ 0:45:49Mr. Kloster: I am here today to serve my country and the broader industry that has given me so much, the shippers, the railroads, and the supply chain. So, I hope you will have me and allow me to serve and dedicate myself to advancing the mission of the surface transportation board. Thank you for your time and consideration, and I look forward to answering any questions you may have. >> schulz, who are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:46:22Ms. Schultz: Thank you, chairman cruz, ranking member cantwell, senator lujan and distinguished and distinguished members of the , commerce, science, and transportation committee. I am honored to appear before you today as you consider my nomination for a second term as a member of the surface transportation board. I am also grateful to president trump for his continued confidence in me through this renomination. I wish to begin by expressing my sincere gratitude to the people who have supported me throughout my professional life.
▶ 0:46:51Ms. Schultz: First and foremost, I thank my late parents, ron and bonnie albright, whose example instilled in me the belief that hard work and integrity are the true measure of success. That principle guides me in everything I do. I would also like to acknowledge my brother dave, my sister-in-law heather, and my nephews, carson and zach. Though they are not here today, their love and support are profoundly meaningful.
▶ 0:47:20Ms. Schultz: Joining me today are my two daughters, sophia and ella schultz, who are my greatest inspiration. Having them here today means the world to me. Lastly, I would like to thank my fellow board members, chairman fuchs and member hedlund, for joining me today and for their continued collegiality and dedication to our shared mission. For nearly five years, I have had the honor and privilege of serving on the surface transportation board.
▶ 0:47:51Ms. Schultz: From the beginning, I recognized the board's critical role as the economic regulator of the freight rail industry and its responsibility for resolving service issues involving freight rail carriers and interstate passenger rail entities, along with certain limited jurisdictional matters. While that remains true today, my time on the board has deepened my appreciation for the complexity and significance of its work.
▶ 0:48:18Ms. Schultz: By listening to stakeholders, reviewing the evidentiary record, and applying the law, I have gained a fuller understanding of how the board's decisions affect american consumers, the supply chain and ultimately, the nation's economy. During this time, I have worked closely with my colleagues and the dedicated staff of the board to ensure that our nation's shall rail network operates efficiently and reliably.
▶ 0:48:45Ms. Schultz: As a member, I have had the opportunity to navigate a wide range of complex and consequential challenges that reflect the evolving demands on our freight and passenger rail systems. These include mergers, abandonments, service reliability issues, rail line construction applications, restoration of rail service, data modernization, on-time performance oversight, and rate review processes.
▶ 0:49:14Ms. Schultz: In every matter that comes before the board, I am guided by several core principles. The evidentiary record, the governing law, and the policy objectives set forth by congress in the rail transportation policy. I am deeply aware of the impact that board decisions have on the parties who appear before us and on the broader public.
▶ 0:49:38Ms. Schultz: I take seriously the trust placed in me by congress and the president, and I approach each case with fairness, impartiality, and a steadfast commitment to applying the law on its merits, always mindful of what best serves the long-term health and vitality of the national rail network. If confirmed, I will continue this approach and remain committed to advancing the board's mission.
▶ 0:50:06Ms. Schultz: I look forward to continuing to work collaboratively with industry stakeholders, my fellow members, and this committee to address the important issues that come before the board. Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to answering any questions you may have. >> thank you for your opening statements.
▶ 0:50:34Ms. Schultz: I think before we get to current events, senator lujan, as he alluded to we are in a highly polarized time but recently this bipartisan letter shared from a number of us expressing concern over the proposed rail merger between norfolk southern and union pacific. I will enter that into the record.
▶ 0:50:56Ms. Schultz: This letter, bipartisan, recognizes a growing concern from industry and from elected officials about mass consolidation within the rail industry. The free market is the free market. As a former businessman I support the best free market outcomes possible, but ultimately the free market must also serve its customers effectively. I want assurances from Mr. kloster and Ms.
▶ 0:51:19Ms. Schultz: Schultz, and I would be curious of your thoughts now, with the surface transportation board will do to examine this merger and if it does happen we are not placing the needs of our farmers and ranchers or manufacturers in our rural communities who depend on an increasingly consolidated rail industry to serve them, their needs, and their businesses?
▶ 0:51:41Ms. Schultz: Thank you, senator. I read the letter. Clearly, this transaction will be the largest and most monumental transaction that has ever come before the board in the history of the board. And what I can say is, I also expect that the record in this matter will be voluminous, matching the magnitude of the case.
▶ 0:52:12Ms. Schultz: I can speak for myself in saying that in all matters that come before the board I review the evidentiary record, the comments filed on the docket, and the applicable law and statutes. I will be prepared to do so in this case as well. >> Mr. kloster, any thoughts on the merger?
▶ 0:52:33Mr. Kloster: Yes, senator. I spent my whole career in the rail industry and I have seen a lot. I have seen all the mergers. The successes but also the failures. My view is this is going to be the largest merger ever.
▶ 0:53:00Mr. Kloster: My commitment to you and to this committee would be to be objective, fair, impartial, to do all the research and analysis to come up with the right decision regarding this merger or any topic, case, issue that comes before the board. >> ultimately for the board, this is more of a philosophical question, but what do U.S. the highest responsibility of the board?
▶ 0:53:32Mr. Kloster: Safety and standards operation or industry health? As far as industry health, where does that victor .2? Health of the rail corporations, health of the businesses they serve? How do you view that philosophical ordering of priorities?
▶ 0:53:48Ms. Schultz: Senator, thank you for the question. With all due respect, because the merger is a pending matter I have to be very, very careful about any comments I make on my views on any of the standards I might be reviewing. As I'm sure you are aware, this will be a case of first impression as it relates to the new merger rules.
▶ 0:54:15Ms. Schultz: They are very much public and available on our website, but for me to provide comment on my views on how I view the standards of law or how I might apply them would be pre-decisional.
▶ 0:54:32Mr. Kloster: I agree with member schultz. The only thing I would add is I don't think there is any particular -- there are a lot of matters that are important, and it would be incumbent on me as a member, assuming I am confirmed, to weigh all those matters. >> Mr. deleeuw, we had a tragedy in louisville recently. We had the safest airspace in the world, safest aviation system in the world.
▶ 0:55:03Mr. Kloster: It's important we remember that because click beit youtube wants us to think that planes will fall from the sky. They do fall from the sky and accidents do happen. I think this dovetails into our last conversation about mass consolidation in any industry. Often those benefits are billed as efficiencies but that creates a lack of competition between manufacturers and between operators. I'm curious as to your thoughts.
▶ 0:55:31Mr. Kloster: We only have a few seconds left, but what are your current concerns about what american aviation looks like so we can continue to be the leaders of the world, in manufacturing or commercial operations? How do we maintain america's aviation dominance in the 21st century?
▶ 0:55:45Mr. Deleeuw: Thank you for the question. I believe we have the premier aviation system in the world. We have, by far, the best controllers in the united states. We have professional pilots. I think our national airspace system is safe.
▶ 0:56:03Mr. Deleeuw: When we do discover things are maybe not quite right, the airlines, the faa are proactive and looking at the data and making decisions to make sure things stay safe. In all matters in the aviation industry, we do a very formalized risk assessment. You look at the consequences. We look at ways to mitigate risks that we discover.
▶ 0:56:29Mr. Deleeuw: >> the ntsb is a great organization and the entire world has modeled their air safety after hours. We look forward to continuing that legacy. Senator lujan?
▶ 0:56:42Sen. Lujan: Yesterday there was the opportunity to ask about his role. He told me in a meeting in my office when I asked him if he would ever do anything illegal, he said no. I appreciated that. During his hearing he refused to answer any of my questions about the firings that he carried out saying that they were subject to litigation. Mr.
▶ 0:57:09Sen. Lujan: Morris's actions have a direct link to your nomination today because he wrote the email illegally firing vice chair brown from the national transportation safety board. Yes or no. Is your nomination to the ntsb to take the vacancy left by Mr. brown's firing?
▶ 0:57:28Mr. Deleeuw: Thank you for the question. I have an expertise to fly aircraft and aviation safety. I am here to serve on the ntsb. I'm not a constitutional lawyer. Your question, which I understand, I will respectfully have to leave that with the courts and legal process.
▶ 0:57:48Sen. Lujan: What position would you be taking? Is there a vacant position today?
▶ 0:57:53Mr. Deleeuw: Sorry, I've just been nominated for a position on the ntsb. I believe it is an open position currently.
▶ 0:58:01Sen. Lujan: It is not up to the courts. I'm surprised you won't even answer that one. I will move on. I'm not trying to play gotcha here. Just that's fact. Anyone dispute that? Hearing none come yes or no.
▶ 0:58:21Sen. Lujan: Does the ntsb have a "for cause" removal criteria which says "the president may remove a member for inefficiency, neglect of duty, or mail fusions in office." I can get a copy if you need to see it.
▶ 0:58:37Mr. Deleeuw: Yes, senator.
▶ 0:58:40Sen. Lujan: Did Mr. brown file a lawsuit suing the trump administration for his illegal removal from the position at ntsb?
▶ 0:58:47Mr. Deleeuw: Senator, thank you for the question. Frankly, I'm not aware. I hear rumors and stories in the media, but I'm not aware of official lawsuits.
▶ 0:58:58Sen. Lujan: Fact, Mr. brown filed a lawsuit. I don't hear any dispute. Yes or no. Has Mr. brown's case been resolved?
▶ 0:59:07Mr. Deleeuw: Not that I'm aware of, senator.
▶ 0:59:10Sen. Lujan: Do you believe in the judicial process?
▶ 0:59:13Mr. Deleeuw: Yes, senator.
▶ 0:59:16Sen. Lujan: I joined my democratic colleagues in a letter urging them not to move forward. Vice chair brown is actively challenging his unlawful removal in court. If the senate moves forward to confirm the replacement and the courts reinstate vice chair brown to the ntsb, we could have two senate confirmed board members for one position. My question, captain deleeuw, if the court ruled in favor of vice chair brown and directs him to be reinstated, will you commit to stepping aside swiftly?
▶ 0:59:48Mr. Deleeuw: Senator, that is something that I have not considered or thought about it, but if that situation was to arise I would reach out and talk to the general counsel of the ntsb and possibly the department of justice.
▶ 1:00:01Sen. Lujan: Ms. schultz, since you currently serve on the surface transportation board I would like to ask a few questions. Is the surface transportation board an independent federal agency?
▶ 1:00:14Ms. Schultz: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:00:17Sen. Lujan: Did board chair patrick -- ascend an email to all staff placing political blame for the shutdown?
▶ 1:00:27Ms. Schultz: The chairman sent an email indicating there was an impending shutdown.
▶ 1:00:33Sen. Lujan: Did he put blame on one party or the other?
▶ 1:00:37Ms. Schultz: There was language that indicated that, yes.
▶ 1:00:41Sen. Lujan: He did place political blame for the shutdown. The reason I say this is statements like these are very concerning. You know that there is a law that passed congress years ago by a new mexico U.S. senator called the hatch act. This could be seen as a violation of the hatch act.
▶ 1:01:03Sen. Lujan: In your opening statement from your prior confirmation hearing you wrote it is incumbent upon the board to approach matters before -- brought before it by conducting a thorough analysis of the facts and adjudicating matters in an impartial matter within the bounds of his jurisdiction of the law. The president made it clear that agencies like the ntsb should not be independent but wholly beholden to the president's direction. How can the stb function subject to political interference and coercion? Is it possible?
▶ 1:01:37Sen. Lujan: How can the stb effectively function while subjected to political interference and coercion?
▶ 1:01:42Ms. Schultz: I couldn't hear the last portion. While?
▶ 1:01:48Sen. Lujan: How can the stb function effectively if they are subjected to political interference and coercion?
▶ 1:01:58Ms. Schultz: Coercion. Sorry, sir.
▶ 1:02:01Sen. Lujan: I have an accent. I apologize.
▶ 1:02:05Ms. Schultz: I just couldn't hear the last part. Senator, I appreciate the concern that you've raised. I would also go back to, I believe, with what you opened with. The stb is an independent agency. It is contained within the statute. I can say if confirmed I will uphold and apply the law in a fair and impartial way.
▶ 1:02:30Sen. Lujan: I have other questions but I very much appreciate your response. >> senator baldwin, recognized for your questions.
▶ 1:02:40Sen. Baldwin: I will continue down a similar path to ranking member lujan. I'm concerned deeply about the independence and integrity of the surface transportation board, especially headed into an extremely significant decision the board will have to make regarding union pacific and norfolk southern in that merger.
▶ 1:03:12Sen. Baldwin: Union pacific's ceo recently met with the president about the merger and went as far as to make a contribution of funds to help president trump his ballroom.
▶ 1:03:28Sen. Baldwin: President trump has stated that the merger sounds good to him, even though it should be clear that a merger of this magnitude would increase costs, create more unreliable service for shippers, and reduce overall competition.
▶ 1:03:45Sen. Baldwin: When this merger comes before the board, do I have your commitment to act independently of political influence and base your decision on the merits and the merits alone? Or do you plan to deliver the decision that the president wants?
▶ 1:04:07Mr. Kloster: Absolutely I will treat it with independence, impartiality, the merger application. It hasn't -- they haven't even filed an application. So, no one even knows what they will propose.
▶ 1:04:25Mr. Kloster: If I am confirmed and am on the board I will look forward, like everyone else, to reading and considering that, but I will promise to do all my research, my analysis, again, it in an independent --
▶ 1:04:39Sen. Baldwin: The surface transportation board's post 2000 one major rail consolidation procedures places heightened emphasis on whether class one railroad mergers and hands rather than simply preserve competition -- enhance rather than simply preserve competition.
▶ 1:05:03Sen. Baldwin: Will you commit to following this competence of evaluation required by these updated standards when evaluating the union pacific and norfolk southern merger?
▶ 1:05:12Mr. Kloster: Yes. I will follow the law.
▶ 1:05:15Sen. Baldwin: Ms. schultz, will you commit to following the rigorous and comprehensive evaluation required by the stb's post 2000 one merger rules when evaluating the union pacific and norfolk southern merger?
▶ 1:05:35Ms. Schultz: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:05:36Sen. Baldwin: It is my understanding -- and I am dovetailing on a question senator lujan just asked. Thank you both for meeting with me in advance of this and having a discussion about many of the issues that the stb will grapple with.
▶ 1:06:02Sen. Baldwin: But I asked a question about whether there were any partisan postings or emails that you were aware of. It is my understanding -- and you replied, no. But it is my understanding that just before the agency closed its doors on october 1 that chairman fuchs sent an unprecedented emailed the agency staff blaming democrats for the government shutdown.
▶ 1:06:33Sen. Baldwin: Are you aware of this email? And did you receive it?
▶ 1:06:36Ms. Schultz: Yes, senator. I did receive it. I would like to note in our meeting at that time I was not aware of the email. Upon meeting with some of the members of your staff it was brought to my attention. I did go back and I did review the email. But at the time that we met I was not in fact aware of the email.
▶ 1:07:00Sen. Baldwin: Among other things that email states that democrats are blocking this continuing resolution in the U.S. senate due to unrelated policy demands. I have to tell you, I was really disappointed to see this email. It is unbecoming of an independent board, which is looking more like donald trump's board, board with the illegal firing of robert primus.
▶ 1:07:30Sen. Baldwin: Do you think it's appropriate for the board leadership of an independent agency to circulate a clearly partisan email to staff?
▶ 1:07:46Ms. Schultz: Senator, I believe, it is my understanding from reading the news that that email went out across the government as a whole. That said, what I can say --
▶ 1:08:04Sen. Baldwin: Other departments? Other agencies?
▶ 1:08:08Ms. Schultz: I believe similar language was included --
▶ 1:08:12Sen. Baldwin: Do you believe it was appropriate?
▶ 1:08:15Ms. Schultz: Senator, what I can say is, if confirmed I will review every case the way I've always approached it, which is with impartiality absolutely apart from politics, which has no place at all within any board decision. I give you my commitment that I will, any pending matter, I will apply the law on its merits.
▶ 1:08:42Sen. Baldwin: Do you believe the firing of robert primus was justified?
▶ 1:08:47Ms. Schultz: Senator, as you are aware, my former colleague Mr. primus has filed a lawsuit against the surface transportation board. It is my practice to not comment on pending litigation.
▶ 1:09:04Sen. Baldwin: More hypothetically, should the expectation be that as board members you will be removed if you don't support the president's agenda?
▶ 1:09:16Ms. Schultz: I have been appointed by the president for my first term. I has been nominated for a second term. And I serve at the pleasure of the president, so he has the power to appoint and the power to remove. >> we are over time. We will go back to the ntsb. We have talked a lot about rail.
▶ 1:09:44Ms. Schultz: None of you are constitutional lawyers, so let's talk about planes and trains. The ntsb is the gold standard in investigating post crash analysis. As the survivor of a fatal plane crash I've been through an ntsb investigation.
▶ 1:10:00Ms. Schultz: I don't think anyone would argue no matter how you dissect -- would argue how you dissect a plane crash -- how the feedback makes it back to our manufacturing base.
▶ 1:10:16Ms. Schultz: We can ensure our air traffic control system, we've heard a lot these past few months and are hearing a lot now, about america's 80 seat system is old -- adc system is old and struggling. What role the ntsb can play in ensuring our airspace modernization happens rapidly in safety to meet the demands of the 21st century air travel.
▶ 1:10:40Mr. Deleeuw: Thank you for the question. You mentioned the ntsb. The ntsb is a small agency. Roughly about 425 people plus or -20. It is the preeminent safety agency worldwide. What is amazing is that for 400 plus people they provide a fantastic service to the american public. The ntsb does take the time -- you mentioned the timeliness.
▶ 1:11:11Mr. Deleeuw: I think that that has certainly improved in the past few years, but the ntsb is not about, necessarily, the timeliness piece of it. They want to be the investigation to be timely but it's about quality.
▶ 1:11:28Mr. Deleeuw: I've worked with the ntsb years and I would say that timeliness is an issue and they are aware, but it's about the quality, so they want to make a good final report with safety recommendations that improve safety and save lives.
▶ 1:11:45Chair Cruz: Mr. deleeuw, head of this hearing democrats criticized me for including you on this panel because of the pending litigation involving the former mayor of jacksonville. That is a distraction from the merits of your nomination. 11 people were killed in an aviation accident on tuesday. This is a serious nomination. By any measure, you are extremely qualified.
▶ 1:12:14Chair Cruz: I want to start by asking you about your experience working in aviation safety. You currently serve as the managing director for safety and efficiency at american airlines and have been in various safety positions at american and the allied pilots association for more than 15 years. What aviation safety issues have you personally worked on?
▶ 1:12:37Mr. Deleeuw: Well, sir. Senator, thank you for the question. Over the years I worked with a lot of different programs. The airlines follow a safety management system. So, we have four components. Safety promotion, safety policy, safety risk management, safety assurance. I've been primarily in the safety assurance aspect which involves a voluntary confidential reporting programs. We call it the aviation safety action program.
▶ 1:13:04Mr. Deleeuw: We also have the flight quality assurance which is flight data monitoring. I was responsible for working with my team to start a continuous program. In the last several years we have started another safety program called the learning and improvement team. Some of these are trendsetters, let's say. On the other part of it, over the years several things have popped up.
▶ 1:13:27Mr. Deleeuw: I would say that I was fortunate to be part of a joint committee between the american airlines and the allied pilots association, the 737 max returned to service. -- return to service. That was successful. American was the first to return the max to service. The process was well done, and I think it was able to improve safety for all.
▶ 1:13:50Chair Cruz: Thank you. By any measure you are objectively very well qualified for this position. As you know, in october this committee unanimously approved -- unanimously approved might legislation which requires controlled airspace to be
▶ 1:14:27Chair Cruz: Tell us about your experience implementing a dsp bn and why it is important?
▶ 1:14:39Mr. Deleeuw: I am a huge proponent and I appreciate the work on the committee and getting that pushed through. American airlines has equipped many of our aircraft with that technology and we have been using that entering the system out.
▶ 1:15:01Mr. Deleeuw: And with traffic controllers have looked through it and try the system out and work with it, it is improved safety and will save lives and will reduce workload. And it is the next stuff we need to improve safety.
▶ 1:15:29Chair Cruz: What do you think are the challenges?
▶ 1:15:36Mr. Deleeuw: Anytime you technology out there it is the question of cost. If you I have talked to, the labor associations for other airlines, there is always concerned with that but there seems to be support throughout the industry for adsbm.
▶ 1:16:03Chair Cruz: I hope they will move quickly and sent to the president's desk to be signed. In 2023, congress enacted legislation that I wrote to fix a broken permitting process for four bridges between texas and mexico. One of those bridges is the bridge and maverick county, texas.
▶ 1:16:25Chair Cruz: The past summer, they improve the environmental impact system for the corresponding railroad project. However, I for that union pacific is rejecting input of various operation to put a load -- wrote box. If confirmed, will you commit to working with me to ensure that the green eagle railroad and the bridges sponsors get a fair shot to spin -- finish their projects.
▶ 1:16:55Ms. Schultz: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:16:59Mr. Kloster: Yes.
▶ 1:17:03Sen. Moreno: Thank you for the nominees to be here and congratulations for being nominated by the president of the united states. The ntsb is an investigative agency, not a regulation.
▶ 1:17:19Mr. Deleeuw: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:17:23Sen. Moreno: You have seen a lot in your career, eminently qualified. Help the public understand what the date is like for an air traffic controller. From your investigations, we see it went well, not commenting on the specific investigation were generally speaking pay would you agree it is a very high stress job?
▶ 1:17:50Mr. Deleeuw: I appreciate the question. I have flown all over the world and in many countries. I can say unequivocally that the air traffic controllers in this country are by far the best in the world pretty air traffic controllers have long hours. I am aware of some of the impacts of the government shutdown and I am also aware of the struggles they have had with the controllers.
▶ 1:18:22Mr. Deleeuw: But I every year I participate in the communication and safety and I am always amazed at the professionalism of the controllers. They have an award ceremony on the last night there which is referred to as the archie awards and they recognize controllers who save lives. I would have to say that I'm not an air traffic control it but I have certainly worked with them a member of the sisterhood.
▶ 1:18:54Mr. Deleeuw: They are what keeps this national airspace running.
▶ 1:18:58Sen. Moreno: With a stressful job like that, we have limitations. They can't work 20 hours a day, for example. You have to take breaks. Is that accurate?
▶ 1:19:05Mr. Deleeuw: I'm not familiar with their work rules.
▶ 1:19:10Sen. Moreno: You would want to air traffic controller who was fatigued, overly stressed coming want them crisp and doing their job. Would that be accurate just based on the investigations you been around?
▶ 1:19:21Mr. Deleeuw: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:19:25Sen. Moreno: How many of your coworkers do you know that went a month and half without a paycheck? Have you ever experience that? Would you and when you were to start your young family with joke on him and an half that a paycheck?
▶ 1:19:37Mr. Deleeuw: I would hope I would not have had to do that.
▶ 1:19:43Sen. Moreno: And it would add enormous stress to you, family, spouse, kids? Having to think about daycare and you can't afford daycare and they don't take credit. They expect to get paid.
▶ 1:19:54Mr. Deleeuw: Yes sir.
▶ 1:19:59Sen. Moreno: And all that circulating in a mine as more stress. Is that fair?
▶ 1:20:01Mr. Deleeuw: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:20:05Sen. Moreno: About week ago, a very unreported story, it was a helicopter flying through the airspace at cleveland hopkins airport. Fortunately, it was a nice day. And that helicopter flew almost directly in front of an inbound southwest airlines flight at 2000 feet with almost no vertical separation. They were literally on a collision path.
▶ 1:20:30Sen. Moreno: When you are a pilot and you can see things out of the cockpit, it is a lot easier to prevent those kinds of accidents. Is that accurate? You can see the obstacle in front of you.
▶ 1:20:39Mr. Deleeuw: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:20:43Sen. Moreno: Your phone into live in hopkins?
▶ 1:20:45Mr. Deleeuw: Yes, senator. Imagine if that had been the set up last week, nice, sunny day, I heavy snowstorm, zero visibility , snow showers, and you were totally dependent on this what we have happened in that situation?
▶ 1:21:06Mr. Deleeuw: Thank you for the question. I'm not 100% sure of what you are referring to but I do remember seeing something about that. Based on what you are telling me, I assume there is an investigation going on. With that being the case, I would prefer recuse and not discuss that yet.
▶ 1:21:31Sen. Moreno: Point I'm trying to make is obvious. We have asked this air traffic controllers to go into a dark room, very stressful job where there are all kinds of regulations about what they can and cannot do because we want to reduce that stress. We are now day 37 of the government shutdown and they've not gotten paid and they are being used as political ponds. Quite frankly I find that atrocious -- pawns.
▶ 1:22:02Sen. Moreno: I find that atrocious. They have bagged the democrats to have a vote and the democrats have been refusing an hour playing with people's lives. They are allowing our skies to become more dangerous.
▶ 1:22:20Sen. Moreno: For my democrat colleagues, especially in this committee that constantly talk about how important safety is, why don't we actually open the government today or actually let us have a vote to open the government and get people paid? Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:22:45Sen. Moreno: I'm going to ask some questions and ask for a response from the senator from ohio. I vitiate the response that you had but the same question is was the fire and justified?
▶ 1:23:11Mr. Kloster: I didn't know him. I don't know the circumstances. I was not privy to the circumstances that he was removed by a president trump. It is in litigation. So I don't really have a comment on that.
▶ 1:23:33Sen. Lujan: The white house said they fired Mr. primus because he did not support the president's america first agenda. Their words. Ms. schultz, do you feel pressure to support the president's agenda?
▶ 1:23:52Mr. Kloster: Thank you for the --Ms. schultz: I think the question, senator. The answer to that is no. Again, I think in response to other questions come in my time on the board with pending matters, I approach it from a similar manner which is to look at the applicable law, including the statutes, regs, and review
▶ 1:24:26Mr. Kloster: The record extensively and consider the arguments on the merits and the policy principles that are set forth by congress.
▶ 1:24:36Sen. Lujan: I'm sorry the senator from ohio has to leave. I wanted to share some statistics on how many die there and respond to all that happened recently under president trump with the nonsense that came with musk with termination of your termination and threat.
▶ 1:25:01Sen. Lujan: Speaker johnson when he was asked about bringing them back specific to pay the controllers, speaker johnson said he wouldn't bring the house back to pay controllers because he said it would be a waste of our time. I don't want to get into a back and forth of pointing fingers. I am tired of that. I've fallen guilty to it. It is time to fix this. The reason there wasn't a shutdown under the previous administration with democrats in the majority as we worked together.
▶ 1:25:34Sen. Lujan: Vcrs were amended. It democrats and republicans got together to do the right thing for the american people and we need to do that again. I'm certainly hopeful we will get there. I'm sorry the senator doesn't want to see that. There is a 20% increase in dwi deaths in ohio and one of the leading causes of fatalities in ohio is people getting killed by people driving drunk.
▶ 1:26:01Sen. Lujan: I hope we will have a chance to have a conversation and rather than just trying to help her swing. You want to sit here and you're going to listen to the responses. I am sorry about that as well. I appreciate the follow-up. Mr. kloster, do you feel the pressure to support the president?
▶ 1:26:23Mr. Kloster: I am not on the board. So there has been no pressure. If I was on the board and if I was confirmed, I would take anyone's input, whether it was the president or a member of this committee. I would take their input and then I would use that to make an independent, fair, unbiased decision.
▶ 1:26:53Sen. Lujan: You would take their input if it was in the record. Are you going to take that if it goes to social media and says something?
▶ 1:27:03Mr. Kloster: I'm not in social media.
▶ 1:27:06Sen. Lujan: Do you watch news? If the president says on broadcast news, I want you all to do something and it is not the record, how do you do with that?
▶ 1:27:16Mr. Kloster: That kind of stuff goes in one ear and out the other for me.
▶ 1:27:21Sen. Lujan: It doesn't matter, correct? It has to be in the record. Whatever evidence it is you are going to use to make a decision has to be in the record that you are evaluating of whatever the case may be. Is that correct?
▶ 1:27:34Mr. Kloster: I'm not sure what you mean my on the record. If someone called me up?
▶ 1:27:41Sen. Lujan: Help me understand. I am from a small farm. Mr. kloster, you have accepted a nomination to a very serious job of an independent agency. There are serious cases presented to you, a track going awry and off line. The case is presented to you to figure out what has happened. Is that correct?
▶ 1:28:07Mr. Kloster: Yes.
▶ 1:28:10Sen. Lujan: Is there a record that you review as part of that case? What does the paper that gets put in front of you that your to read and understand that all the evidence, all the investigations. What is that called? ?
▶ 1:28:33Mr. Kloster: I understand what you mean now.
▶ 1:28:34Sen. Lujan: If someone tells you to do something in the news and U.S. news and it is not in the record as we have just had a conversation with the record is, do you just completely ignore it? Does it have no bearing on the outcome of the case #Mr.
▶ 1:28:50Kloster: As I said, --Mr.
▶ 1:28:57Kloster: As I said, I would take all input.
▶ 1:29:00Sen. Lujan: Ms. schultz, I'm not even asking the same question because you say no it has to be in the record. The kloster, I am not as smart as my colleagues. I'm a former public utilities commission or ash commissioner. You might want to understand -- commissioner. You might want to understand how we evaluate a record and make a decision.
▶ 1:29:30Sen. Lujan: If anyone of us goes to the news or we speak from the mountain tops are in this hearing and it is not in the case and the record that you have before you that you're making a decision, it doesn't matter. I certainly hope and Mr. chairman, maybe you and I can support some funding to get some training for some of these folks.
▶ 1:29:55Mr. Kloster: I appreciate that recommendation. I also admit that if confirmed there is going to be a bit of a learning curve for me in understanding. There is a school in reno and I'm happy to get your information.
▶ 1:30:14Chair Cruz: Thank you to each of the nominees. My final question is required of all nominees. If confirmed, you play short collaboratively with this committee to provide thorough and timely responses to this d's response and to appear before the committee when requested?
▶ 1:30:31Mr. Deleeuw: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:30:33Mr. Kloster: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:30:35Ms. Schultz: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:30:38Chair Cruz: 531 letters of support -- I have 31 letters of consent and I asked they be inserted into the hearing record . Without projecting, so ordered for senators will have until the close of business on november 10 to submit questions for the record for the nominees will have until the close of business on november 13 two respond to those questions that concludes today's hearing, the committee stands adjourned.