▶ 0:15:54Chair Paul: The hearing will come to order. Today the committee meets to consider two nominations. John walk is nominated to be inspector general of U.S. department of agriculture. He currently works as senior advisor to the U.S. department of agriculture. Thomas march bell is nominated to be inspector general for the U.S. department of health and human services.
▶ 0:16:23Chair Paul: He currently serves as general counsel and senior investigative council on the house committee on administration. He previously served in various roles in the department of justice, house of representatives, and the senate. The witness written statements have been submitted for the record. I will forgo opening marks. Senator peters?
▶ 0:16:47Sen. Peters: Welcome to our nominees and congratulations on your nomination. I see you have your family with you to write it is important for this committee to hear from in question nominees at public hearings and I appreciate the opportunity to do that today. I am disappointed we have had almost no opportunity to conduct public oversight of this administration and its top officials after they have been confirmed.
▶ 0:17:16Sen. Peters: Since the beginning of this year you have held just one hearing where an administrative official testified that was more than six months ago. When I was chairman during the biden administration we had 10 hearings with administration officials at this point in that first year. The year is not over, we can catch up and get to the 10 but that is a pretty slim agenda.
▶ 0:17:48Sen. Peters: You've only held one legislative markup this year. This committee has wide ranging legislative and oversight responsibilities current there are several bills members on both sides of the aisle want to debate in advance and there are numerous oversight issues administration officials need to answer for. Chairman paul, I hope you will call and the leaders for dhs, the fbi, and the national counterterrorism center to testify before this committee before the end of the year.
▶ 0:18:18Sen. Peters: This committee's annual threats hearing provides a critical opportunity for the american people to hear from her national security leaders about wide-ranging threats currently facing our nation. This year the administration has launched an unprecedented attack on the independence of the inspector general's current these are nonpartisan watchdogs responsible for combating waste, fraud, and abuse across the government.
▶ 0:18:47Sen. Peters: Since taking the office president trump fired 19 inspectors general and now wants -- and not once did he provide the legally required notification to congress. He is also attacked acting ig's. Just two weeks ago he fired the acting ig the federal finance agency in an apparent act of retaliation.
▶ 0:19:16Sen. Peters: It is more important now than ever we have qualified nonpartisan individuals serve in these roles. Thomas march bell has been nominated to serve as the ig of the department of health and human services. If confirmed he will be tasked with overseeing one of the largest departments, including a 2.3 trillion dollar budget and over 100 programs.
▶ 0:19:40Sen. Peters: Given his highly partisan track record I am concerned he will instead use the office to pursue political aims, attacking women's reproductive rights. What does the record show? Mr. bell led a partisan investigation into alleged sale of fetal tissue for profit, a claim that has been thoroughly investigated and thoroughly debunked.
▶ 0:20:06Sen. Peters: He served as the chief of staff of the office of civil rights at hhs in the first trump administration where he limited women's access to reproductive care. He is anything but a nonpartisan. Currently he is investigating a democratic fundraising platform even though its republican counterpart faces the exact same issues, he is only focusing on the democratic platform. He plays politics with every oversight role he has had. Mr. bell is not unique.
▶ 0:20:38Sen. Peters: I'm also concerned about the independence of president trump's nominee for the department of agriculture. John walk is currently serving as senior advisor to the director of agriculture and also serves as the acting deputy under secretary for food, nutrition, and consumer services. How can we trust that the secretary's right hand man provide independent oversight of the very policies and programs that he has implemented? The answer is clear. We cannot.
▶ 0:21:09Sen. Peters: I'm concerned that instead of acting impartially Mr. walk will cater to the administration. I thank the nominees for being here and I look forward to asking and hearing from you.
▶ 0:21:20Chair Paul: It is the practice of the committee to swear in witnesses. For the nominees please stand and raise your right hand? Do you swear the testimony will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, nothing but the truth, so help you god? Thank you. It is the standard practice for the chairman to ask the following questions.
▶ 0:21:46Chair Paul: Do you agree without reservations to comply with any request or summaries to appear before any committee of congress before your confirmed?
▶ 0:21:53Mr. Walk: I do.
▶ 0:21:55Mr. Bell: I do.
▶ 0:21:58Chair Paul: At this time we will proceed to questions. I will defer my questions and we go to senator ernst.
▶ 0:22:06Sen. Ernst: Thank you, and I appreciate our witnesses being here. Mr. bell, I will start with you. In fiscal year 2024 medicare and medicaid combined to account for more than 20% of all federal spending.
▶ 0:22:28Sen. Ernst: This means the hhs inspector general who oversees those programs has a massive responsibility to ensure federal dollars are used appropriately and consistent with congressional intent. There is a lot of room for improvement at hhs on this. I hope you'll be able to focus your offices resources on these programs if confirmed. The hhs ig has 1188 open recommendations. That is a lot.
▶ 0:23:02Sen. Ernst: I encourage you to take the lead if confirmed as the hhs ig to get those resolved. There are a few that caught my attention. The centers for medicare and medicaid services had not recovered more than $1 billion in medicaid overpayments identified by audits.
▶ 0:23:23Sen. Ernst: Medicare could have saved up to $128 million over five years if cms had implemented control to address duplicate payments for services. There are many changes over at hhs to lower costs and improve access to care for iowans and all-americans. If confirmed would you commit to addressing existing recommendations to reduce and hopefully eliminate overpayments and duplicate of payments?
▶ 0:23:53Sen. Ernst: That is an easy one. Mr. bell, as hhs ig will be responsible for oversight of the national institutes of health. Nih conducts and supports significant groundbreaking research to help americans healthier. It also supports research that has no business getting taxpayer support.
▶ 0:24:16Sen. Ernst: This includes studies answering critical questions such as our pampered cats less likely to poop outside the litter box. Do pigeons gamble? Does this potato chip look like elvis?
▶ 0:24:41Sen. Ernst: All of these studies are required to provide a public price tag for taxpayers by the stevens amendment but none of them do. A 2019 report I requested found that none of hhs's operating divisions could demonstrate they had a process to manage and administer compliance with the stevens amendment. We spent taxpayer dollars on this.
▶ 0:25:11Sen. Ernst: It might look like elvis, but did we have to spend taxpayer dollars on this? From your previous time at hhs are you aware of other laws that hhs and those received grants or funding from hhs that have blatantly disregarded what you would like to highlight for this committee?
▶ 0:25:38Mr. Bell: Thank you for that question. I did see a number of grants and proposals and guidance directions under the first trump administration that were obnoxious to congressionally passed statutes.
▶ 0:25:57Mr. Bell: Some are just the unfortunate largess of a bureaucracy with a lot of other people's money to spend and the ability to spend that money outside the brackets of congressional law.
▶ 0:26:16Sen. Ernst: Thank you. We need to pay attention. I've spent a lot of the last year focusing on waste and fraud and abuse and these are a few examples of the misuse of taxpayer dollars. We need better oversight. We need compliance with the laws already in existence. My message today is I do not think anybody agrees we should be spending money on a potato chip. I do not believe that.
▶ 0:26:45Sen. Ernst: The litter box thing, let some private company pay for that if they are focused on kitty litter, whatever it might be. Let's not spend taxpayer dollars on garbage like this. I appreciate that. We have additional questions. I will submit those for the record. Let's make sure we are focused on effective ways you can use our taxpayer dollars for the intended use. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:27:14Chair Paul: Senator peters?
▶ 0:27:17Sen. Peters: I defer my questions and recognize senator hassan.
▶ 0:27:23Sen. Hassan: Thank you for this hearing into our witnesses congratulations on your nominations and to your families as well. I want to start with a question to Mr. walk. It is a straightforward question I already asked Mr. bell at a previous hearing so I want you to answer this. If directed by the president to take action that would break the law, will you follow the law or follow the president's directive?
▶ 0:27:50Mr. Walk: I appreciate that question. I would abide by the united states constitution and laws established.
▶ 0:27:58Sen. Hassan: I appreciate that. Shortly after taking office president trump illegally fired 17 inspectors general including the inspectors general for the department of health and human services and agriculture. The same inspectors general you are now nominated to replace. In doing so the president not only broke the law also purposely removed the people charged with preventing fraud and waste and abuse in our government. Mr.
▶ 0:28:28Sen. Hassan: Walk, do you support the president's firing of the inspector general who held the position for which you are now nominated?
▶ 0:28:35Mr. Walk: The president is entitled to remove inspector general's. I would add that our former inspector general is a plaintiff in a lawsuit as an employee of usda I would be unable to answer that.
▶ 0:28:55Sen. Hassan: I will go to Mr. bell and that I want to follow up with both of you. Do you support the firing of your predecessor which to both of you a judge has said broke the plain language of the law?
▶ 0:29:09Mr. Bell: Thank you for that question. I was not a part of the legal analysis for that decision made by the president and the executive branch. I don't know what justification the lawyers provided. I support the right of the head of the executive branch to remove any employee.
▶ 0:29:32Sen. Peters: Let's be clear that
▶ 0:29:35A Federal -- Sen. Hassan: Let's be clear that a federal judge looking at the plain language of the statute that says the president had to give congress 30 days notice and a reason and the president did not do that. The president broke the law. If confirmed you'll be taking an oath to uphold the law and you will be tasked with being a watchdog. Senator ernst made the point that we need people to comply with the written laws that congress lights. -- that congress writes.
▶ 0:30:04A Federal -- Sen. Hassan: You support the president breaking the law and illegally firing your predecessor? Yes or no?
▶ 0:30:09Mr. Walk: That matter is in pending litigation and I cannot answer it.
▶ 0:30:15Sen. Hassan: Mr. bell?
▶ 0:30:17Mr. Bell: I am not a constitutional separation of powers expert.
▶ 0:30:26Sen. Hassan: I will go on because I do not have a lot of time. Let's be clear that there are statutes in the law and the language is quite plain. You can lead them and decide whether you will comply with them or not. Will you commit to continuing any -- will you commit to continuing any open investigators initiated by your predecessor or the current acting inspector general?
▶ 0:30:49Mr. Walk: I cannot make the commitment right now because I don't know what those investigations are but I would make those kind of decisions.
▶ 0:30:58Sen. Hassan: Mr. bell?
▶ 0:31:01Mr. Bell: I looked at the 200 23 open investigations on the website for health and human services. Many of them looked interesting. I will commit to take a close look at all of them and review them on their merits.
▶ 0:31:17Sen. Hassan: You can understand how concerned we are the president of the united states broke the terms of the statute and fired independent inspector generals and replacing them with people who have partisan backgrounds and not committing to either follow the law or keeping the investigations that non-partisans had started. Mr.
▶ 0:31:41Sen. Hassan: Bell, when you testified before the finance committee I ask you about the hhs office of the inspector general's ongoing investigation into methadone clinics for profit. The hhs office of the inspector general has found that per poppet -- that for profit method own the next our billing fort -- that for profit methadone clinics are billing for treatment patients never received.
▶ 0:32:09Sen. Hassan: This is talk sting -- this is costing taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. I asked you this question previously so I will ask you again. As hhs inspector general will you continue to investigate whether opioid treatment programs or fraudulent -- are fraudulent and charge the federal government for care they never provide to patients?
▶ 0:32:33Mr. Bell: I am committed to eliminating waste and fraud and abuse in those programs and will be glad to sit down with you.
▶ 0:32:40Sen. Hassan: Will you continue that investigation?
▶ 0:32:43Mr. Bell: I will continue to investigate waste, fraud, and abuse. I am unfamiliar with the details but I will become familiar and I will sit down in advance that cause as appropriate.
▶ 0:32:56Chair Paul: Senator moody?
▶ 0:33:05Sen. Moody: Make sure our moneys that go to people who need help and are addicted in the middle of the health crisis that the money is going to them and not to fraud. I appreciate that topic being brought up and I appreciate your commitment to looking into that. I appreciate Mr. walk and Mr. bell being here. I see that you brought your family members.
▶ 0:33:32Sen. Moody: These hearings are sometimes tough and it is nice to know they have loved ones at their backs so thank you for being here and supporting them. I want to address my questions specifically to Mr. bell. I've had some personal conditions to many of the issues you will be involved in once you are confirmed.
▶ 0:33:54Sen. Moody: The position you have, that both of you are undertaking, the position of ig is one of the most important roles at an agency. The trust the american people putting you to remain impartial and independent and a political over an organization staff is an awesome responsibility and I believe you have the influence and the opportunity to restore trust in our government and that is so important right now.
▶ 0:34:25Sen. Moody: I think these positions are some of the most important nominations right now in our history. Thank you for being here today and one of the things I'm particularly concerned with is what has happened to unaccompanied alien children during the last administration. As you know I was very involved in taking the last administration to task.
▶ 0:34:49Sen. Moody: I thought they were not only facilitating but acting as intermediaries of trafficking organizations, putting the american government in that position where these children were smuggled over the border. At the end of the day, however they got here, whatever means they were smuggled across the border, their children -- they are children. The biden administration them with sponsors, dozens of children with the same sponsors.
▶ 0:35:21Sen. Moody: Unspeakable situations. We did a grand jury investigation in florida. They lost track of tens of thousands of children placed in situations the grand jury said was unspeakable. Some were at strip clubs, dropped off and vacant lots. There were subject to abuse. Put with people they do not even know. I could go on and on in terms of the finding of the grand jury. A grand jury is not a partisan organization.
▶ 0:35:52Sen. Moody: It is made up of people brought in from the community of all political affiliations, all walks of life. That is what they found, that the biden administration had put children into these situations and they were subjected to horrific abuse.
▶ 0:36:18Sen. Moody: As florida's attorney general I fought constantly import to stop not only the intentional destruction of our border up what was happening to our kids as a result. Mr. bell, he worked at doj in the human trafficking bureau as chief counsel for the panel on infant lives. I know you value life. I introduced senate bill 1997 which would require the office of refugee resettlement and hhs to work with states placing children with sponsors.
▶ 0:36:47Sen. Moody: One of the things we found was they were not even telling our department of children and families when they were bringing these kids in and dropping them off. There were clandestine on flights in the middle of the night. They would not give us information. We tried to subpoena them for information. They would not let their people talk to us. Inc. About that. It is almost -- think about that.
▶ 0:37:14Sen. Moody: It is almost as though they were hiding what they were trying to do. I want to make sure we address the fact that not only they lost track of tens of thousands of children but we can figure out a way to make sure this never happens again and if it does start happening there is someone watching for that and can make sure we are sure enough any safeguards we have.
▶ 0:37:36Sen. Moody: A former hhs official said they looked into this and that person said they not only verified but corroborated what was going on in florida and they found more evidence of fraud with placement and sponsorships of unaccompanied minor children and they never did anything about it , even after they had the information.
▶ 0:37:54Sen. Moody: It is my hope we get someone in there that understands how important it is for oversight and regardless of who is in the white house or president if something like that happens again that causes harm to our children someone will step in and end it and it does not take a state ag to be fighting a battle from one of our states. I know you may not of been briefed on all the circumstances but drive your commitment to review this?
▶ 0:38:22Mr. Bell: Not only do you have my commitment but I have been in all of those facilities when I was a doj lawyer in charge of the trafficking program. I think somebody made a decision somewhere in that decision let that child go to the wrong place.
▶ 0:38:45Mr. Bell: I believe what an ag would do is find out who is in charge of that person, how that decision was made, and take the types of steps of this never happens again.
▶ 0:38:57Sen. Moody: And I have your commitment to review the process to make sure you're holding the agency accountable to its responsibilities under the law?
▶ 0:39:06Mr. Walk: -- Mr. bell: yes you do.
▶ 0:39:11Sen. Peters: Mr. bell come in your opening statement you pledged to support the initiatives of president trump and you go on to say he will support their courageous and innovative change of the direction for the health care of all americans. It is unusual to see those kinds of quotes from an ig who was supposed to be a watchdog, supposed to hold folks accountable.
▶ 0:39:43Sen. Peters: Traditionally we do not see opening statements for an ig that say I'm excited to be a cheerleader for the administration. I will be cheering them on every step of the way. That is not the job of an ig. I think you know that. The idea is to hold the administration accountable. To hold administrations accountable you have to hold them accountable, not be a cheerleader. What did you mean by those statements?
▶ 0:40:11Sen. Peters: Tell me you will be an actual watchdog which is the job of the ig.
▶ 0:40:14Mr. Bell: Thank you for the question and for the opportunity to explain what I mean by initiatives. I think the administration has several initiatives that any congress would get behind, which is improving the delivery of health care, improving the compliance to federal statutes to make medicare and medicaid viable for the future while making sure the recipients are the intended recipients like
▶ 0:40:45Mr. Bell: Congress. To make sure agencies do not go astray, looking at potato chips and elvis presley. I think those initiatives are the good government, good delivery, waste and fraud and abuse initiatives that the secretary and the president have announced.
▶ 0:41:09Mr. Bell: I also think the structure he of the ig statute calls for cooperation and collaboration with the agency head, calls for being a student of congress and congressional intent. It also allows the ig to initiate investigations. Those are the three buckets ig initiatives can fall into. Many of those initiatives come from the administration.
▶ 0:41:40Mr. Bell: I hope to be as helpful as I can and rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse.
▶ 0:41:45Sen. Peters: We all agree those are good initiatives, good initiatives for all of us to focus on. The job of the ig is to say this initiative is not doing what it is intended to do and sometimes that means calling out things that may be not flattering to the administration. That is the job of an ig. You talk about one of the actions you can initiate investigations which is critical.
▶ 0:42:11Sen. Peters: If you see something that does not seem right, and your team see something that is not right you will begin the investigations. The president may not be happy with that initiative because it could be embarrassing or show a major flaw in what they are trying to do. A president will call up an ig and say stop the investigation. Even though you have the expectation you will be the one initiating it if president trump calls you and says stop it will you tell him no?
▶ 0:42:42Sen. Peters: The law shows I can initiate this investigation if I believe it is something where the taxpayers of the united states need to know what is going on?
▶ 0:42:49Mr. Bell: I don't have any experience in my time in the previous administration nor do I know anyone who served in that administration or this one who has been asked by the president to do anything unethical or illegal so I don't believe he would do that.
▶ 0:43:06Mr. Bell: As you and I discussed yesterday in your office I think an ig is supposed to call balls and strikes without secretly wearing a jersey for the pitcher or the batter. I like that characterization and that is what I would do if confirmed.
▶ 0:43:25Sen. Peters: Mr. walk com as a senior advisor to the usda you will been intimately involved in operations. As inspector general you would be tasked with conducting oversight of these issues. Given your clearly partisan work , do you believe we can trust you will do that in a free and nonpartisan way? Will you recuse yourself from any matters in which you personally worked on with usda?
▶ 0:43:57Sen. Peters: That would give us more trust if you would commit to recuse yourself from anything you worked on with usda.
▶ 0:44:03Mr. Walk: Refusals are very fact specific. What I will commit to doing is to follow all federal laws applicable to federal employees and regulations. I also look to applicable guidance from og as well as professional standards, including for accounting independence as well as for the legal profession. I also intend to consult with ig council.
▶ 0:44:35Mr. Walk: We also have the office of compliance and integrity whose job is to make sure our products are done a way that meets professional standards and I will also work with them as well. To make sure there is integrity in our work.
▶ 0:44:49Sen. Peters: Let's hope that is the case.
▶ 0:44:52Chair Paul: Thank you both for their willingness to serve. I thought we would take a moment to introduce your family if you like.
▶ 0:44:59Mr. Walk: I am grateful to be joined by my wife, ruth. My four daughters. Joanna, phoebe, hannah, and grace.
▶ 0:45:12Mr. Bell: I am joined by my wife , a beacon of good advice and kindness and patience. We both work here in washington since 1982 and she is with me here today.
▶ 0:45:25Chair Paul: That is why you've been married so long, because you appreciate that advice?
▶ 0:45:30Mr. Bell: That is correct.
▶ 0:45:32Chair Paul: There been accusations made you may be partisans or people who diabolically want to do republican things and search after democrats. I would like to ask you both individually. Will you look at waste and fraud in the parameters of your job and administer it independent of whether the targets might be republican or democrat appointees?
▶ 0:45:57Mr. Walk: I will.
▶ 0:45:59Mr. Bell: Yes sir, I will.
▶ 0:46:02Chair Paul: Is there anything else either of you would like to mention about your jobs that you would like to bring forward to the committee? One of the programs that I think will be under Mr. walk's purview is the snap program. The gao found 12% of the programs from the snap program, about 10 million were improper.
▶ 0:46:34Chair Paul: You have any idea how the inspector general would go about looking at fraud in the snap program?
▶ 0:46:37Mr. Walk: Thank you for that question. As ranking member peters mentioned I did serve for four months as undersecretary and snap fraud was one of the issues I was very interested in.
▶ 0:47:00Mr. Walk: I believe we should make sure we are continuing to look at internal controls and assure the actions being taken are appropriate for the types of fraud that is happening today because we see it at all levels from the application to the retail stores as well as outside folks. That has been a real problem.
▶ 0:47:29Mr. Walk: We have had a lot stolen through skimming from international gangs. I think we want to make sure we have internal controls in place to ensure the states are following the guidance. There is also room for improvement in terms of technology. You know that right now snap is still on the ebt card for the most case. That is essentially a magnetic strip.
▶ 0:47:59Mr. Walk: It is well behind other payment systems that would have a chip. It is low hanging fruit and that does make it easier and more enticing for folks to try to skim from that. I think we do want to look at technology and how it can improve technology and how we can use technology to identify fraud and identify the patterns we can go after it.
▶ 0:48:23Mr. Walk: I am happy to say we have an office of analytics and innovation that has been doing some good work in that area and I would love to see it explored. Finally I think it is important to increase the consequences for fraud. I think we can do more in terms of pursuing federal criminal prosecutions and making sure we are building the cases for the department of justice to go after those who commit fraud with taxpayer dollars.
▶ 0:48:50Chair Paul: Senator blumenthal?
▶ 0:48:54Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Welcome to the committee and welcome to your families and thank you for your willingness to serve our country. As inspectors general of agriculture and health and human services you provide a critical role in ensuring the integrity and effectiveness of our government. Mr.
▶ 0:49:21Sen. Blumenthal: Walk, you are talking to the chairman about the snap program. We understand where we have heard that the secretary of agriculture has said there has to be reapplication on the part of all current snap recipients now. Is that your understanding?
▶ 0:49:51Mr. Walk: I have only read that in the news. I have not had any conversations with the secretary.
▶ 0:49:59Sen. Blumenthal: Yuri senior advisor to her and you have not heard anything up -- you are a senior advisor to her and you've not heard anything about it?
▶ 0:50:08Mr. Walk: I know it has been reported.
▶ 0:50:13Sen. Blumenthal: There is no legal requirement that all of the current snap reapply as though they had not there?
▶ 0:50:25Mr. Walk: My understanding is there is a requirement for recertification but in terms of taking folks off unless they reapply I do not know that there is a requirement for that.
▶ 0:50:36Sen. Blumenthal: There is none, correct?
▶ 0:50:39Mr. Walk: Not that I am aware of.
▶ 0:50:42Sen. Blumenthal: The recertification is different from the application process, correct?
▶ 0:50:47Mr. Walk: It is.
▶ 0:50:50Sen. Blumenthal: Recertification is done periodically depending on what the state decides is appropriate?
▶ 0:50:57Mr. Walk: Yes.
▶ 0:50:59Sen. Blumenthal: Will you commit that you will make sure that all of the 42 million current snap recipients and beneficiaries receive these benefits if they are entitled to do so under current law and the approval process is done expeditiously
▶ 0:51:30Sen. Blumenthal: And timely so that they get those benefits as they need them to put food on the table?
▶ 0:51:36Mr. Walk: Thank you for the question. As I said I did spend four months at fcs and one of the initiatives I took on in that short time was to send the governors a letter that we expected timeliness in terms of the 30 days or seven day period of completing the approval process for the applications. That is an important issue to me even on that side.
▶ 0:52:04Mr. Walk: As ig my role would not be to be in the policy role. As ig I would practice --
▶ 0:52:16Sen. Blumenthal: It would be your responsibility to ensure the approvals are done in a timely way because people depend on the snap benefits to feed their children, correct?
▶ 0:52:29Mr. Walk: I agree the ig should continue to practice oversight over the snap application process.
▶ 0:52:36Sen. Blumenthal: If I come to you as a member of the senate and I say the information available to me as there are delays and bureaucratic hangups he would look into it, correct?
▶ 0:52:46Mr. Walk: That is correct. As ig I need to keep congress fully informed.
▶ 0:52:52Sen. Blumenthal: I will hold you to that commitment. Let me ask you about foodborne illness. There was an incident involving boo boar's head contamination with listeria that caused 60 to be hospitalized and 10 to lose their lives. Those deaths never should have happened.
▶ 0:53:20Sen. Blumenthal: At the time I asked that than inspector general to investigate the agency's handling of repeated sanitary violations found in boar's head plants. As far as I know the investigation is still ongoing. And you confirm that?
▶ 0:53:35Mr. Walk: I do not know but I can take a look at that and get back to your staff.
▶ 0:53:40Sen. Blumenthal: I would appreciate it. If it is ongoing will you commit to ensure the office of inspector general will continue to independently investigate this incident and hold boar's head accountable for its role in the outbreak?
▶ 0:53:58Mr. Walk: Yes, sir.
▶ 0:54:02Sen. Blumenthal: Let me ask you, Mr. bell, what assurance can you give us on this committee that you will be independent? I know you've been asked about this issue before.
▶ 0:54:30Sen. Blumenthal: That you will be independent of the leadership of the department of health and human services in light of your statements in your political involvement on some of the issues that come before the department?
▶ 0:54:44Mr. Bell: Thank you for that question. In graduate school I read aristotle's rhetoric and I know the difference between political rhetoric and the type of evidence that a federal prosecutor accumulates for litigation. All of my work product, rhetorical or advocacy oriented has been in political campaigns.
▶ 0:55:12Mr. Bell: All of my work in congressional oversight or while doj has followed prosecutorial standards of the high quality of evidence, collaborated evidence, documented evidence. My record speaks for itself. Just because a product offended some interest of some group does not mean it did not follow the highest standards of investigation. I do not believe on the investigative side of a single partisan product on my record.
▶ 0:55:43Sen. Blumenthal: --
▶ 0:55:46Chair Paul: Your time has expired. Senator hawley?
▶ 0:55:52Sen. Hawley: Congratulations to the nominees and thank you for being here. Mr. walk, let me start with you. Give me a sense of your priorities if confirmed. What do you think are the major efforts that you would pursue? Give me a sense of what you think the lay of the land is.
▶ 0:56:14Mr. Walk: The top three priorities would be public health and safety. The integrity of our programs and also the national security programs.
▶ 0:56:27Sen. Hawley: On the national security programs what you have in mind in particular?
▶ 0:56:32Mr. Walk: You may know the secretary has released a farm security plan that highlights the linkage between homeland security and agriculture. We have seen foreign investments in the united states lighted to agriculture both in foreign purchases as well as companies where we are getting data to import or export to foreign adversaries and I think as we take actions on those kind of
▶ 0:57:03Mr. Walk: Things for the ig to make sure it is done in an appropriate way. Other issues I think deserves a look is research security. I am sure as you may know in the last six months there has been at least two breaches at the university of michigan involving biological materials that have a link to agriculture.
▶ 0:57:30Mr. Walk: One is listeria which the fbi has categorized as an agro terrorism weapon and the other is ringworm which can cause serious diseases to livestock. Both were at the hands of foreign adversaries, chinese nationals. There seems to be a pattern there and in other schools as well where we need to be looking closer at research security, particularly when it comes to usda.
▶ 0:58:02Mr. Walk: Is that money staying within the united states or is it somehow supporting foreign adversaries? There is also an interest in terms of making sure we increase our independence so we are not dependent on foreign nations for key agriculture inputs such as fertilizer. I would view all of that within the national security.
▶ 0:58:27Sen. Hawley: Mr. bell, I want to talk you about rural hospitals and cybersecurity as it relates to rural hospitals. About 40% of the hospitals in my state or rural. Frequently these hospitals do not have the budget to stand up a cybersecurity effort. As a consequence they are frequently the targets of cybersecurity attacks.
▶ 0:58:50Sen. Hawley: That is one of the recent senator hassan and a by -- and I have introduced a bill called the rural purity hospital enhancement act to create a comprehensive strategy to train cybersecurity personnel to help rural hospitals in particular.
▶ 0:59:07Sen. Hawley: I ask you this because if this legislation were to pass the office of inspector general would be tasked with auditing how hhs develops and rolls out the cybersecurity strategy, including verifying with hospitals, holding grantees accountable for improvements. If confirmed can you commit to me you would prioritize oversight of legislation like the rural hospital cybersecurity enhancement as part of hhs's broader rural health efforts.
▶ 0:59:38Mr. Bell: I concur that that is a serious problem. I spent four years at the national counterterrorism center and I am aware of the dangers of cybersecurity and I will commit to sit down with you and figure out how to implement that if confirmed and it passed. I believe that would be a top priority even if the legislation does not pass.
▶ 1:00:01Sen. Hawley: Give me a sense as what you see of the other top priorities should you be confirmed?
▶ 1:00:08Mr. Bell: I think 80% of the ig staff is dedicated to medicare and medicaid fraud. There is a lot of modernization that needs to take place. One of the first things I would look at is what type of payment tracker software is the office using to look across databases to find fraud.
▶ 1:00:35Mr. Bell: I will bring to bear my background at the department of justice in solving criminal conduct. It is not important to rack up more cases but to change behavior. Behavior needs to be changed. I would design initiatives to change the behavior of people committing fraud so they do not decide not to do so.
▶ 1:00:57Sen. Hawley: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:01:00Chair Paul: Thank you to the nominees for your time today. The nominees have responses to biographical and financial questionnaires and have their financial statements reviewed by the office of government ethics. Without objection this information will be made part of the hearing record with the exception of the nominees financial data on file with the committee. Due to the quick turnaround between this hearing in the markup tomorrow the hearing record will remain open until 5:00 today, november 19.
▶ 1:01:30Chair Paul: The hearing is adjourned. Thank you.