▶ 0:15:08>> I want to begin by welcoming you all to the hearing to the consideration of the director of the national security agency. General rudd has endured a lengthy confirmation hearing at the armed services committee, I'm sure he was excited to be testifying in front of congress again.
▶ 0:15:37Vice chairman warner and I agreed we will not tolerate any disruptions. Anyone who disrupts will be removed from the hearing room could face further sanctions including being barred from the capitol grounds.
▶ 0:16:01As I mentioned, general rudd has previously testified for his nomination. Our goal is to consider the qualifications they give members ample opportunity for deliberation. General rudd has provided substantive written responses to dozens of questions. Members will be able to ask follow-up questions.
▶ 0:16:32Our members are familiar with general rudd from his previous testimony to our committee and closed session where he was also warmly received. Want to take this opportunity to thank general rudd for his lifetime of service and I would like to recognize his wife, daughter, son-in-law who are joining us today, as well as his mom and younger daughter who is watching virtually.
▶ 0:17:04On behalf of this committee thank you for your support through this process and your husband and dads decades of military service. General rudd currently serves as the deputy commander of the U.S. endo pacific command in addition to operations, task force assignments he has command of platoon squadron group. Along his previous assignments he has served as chief of staff for U.S.
▶ 0:17:34Endo pacific commander of special operations and deputy commanding general for operations for the 25th infantry division. If confirmed general rudd would be asked to serve as the head of the nsa and as command as the U.S. cyber command.
▶ 0:17:54I look forward to hearing from you about how this prepares you to fulfill for this dual headed role and assuming this responsibility of protecting americans and our homeland for harm. I want to thank you for your many years of service and willingness to do this new role. I now recognize the vice chairman for his remarks.
▶ 0:18:23>> thank you for taking time to meet with me the other day. We although the nsa has been without a confirmed director for over nine months. Given the sustained pace of cyber attacks, the complexity of maintaining the premier seven system and sheer volume of intelligence requirements from commanders, I'm eager to provide the tens of thousands of
▶ 0:18:53Employees with steady, permanent, confirmed leadership. As I told you when we last met I have a few priorities and I will need your commitment if you want to earn my vote. I remain deeply concerned about the politically motivated firings of civilian and military leaders across our national security enterprise including the firing of your predecessor.
▶ 0:19:22I worry about the message these firings send that political loyalty is valued. That speaks truth to power or even to produce vital intelligence that may conflict with talking points or messaging of the day.
▶ 0:19:43As we discussed the first time and I will ask you this in my questioning, the ic is on dwelling -- unwilling to tell policymakers what they need to hear I will need your commitment you will be candid with policymakers and nothing in your background or flex that you wouldn't be.
▶ 0:20:11You will always be transparent with congress and foster a culture that prizes transparency including standing up for your workforce if they are unfairly targeted. I support the traditional senate message but also believe there are areas where nsa can and should play a bigger role. One of those areas is technology.
▶ 0:20:38That means leveraging technologies to make nsa more effective in better targeting adversaries advances in technologies that weaken american security. I hope nsa will lean into strong relationships within the U.S. government. We talked about the private sector and with allies and partners abroad. Which brings me to another priority, strengthening alliances and partnerships.
▶ 0:21:07Nsa has long-standing relationships across the world. I suspect that many of our partners are feeling confused and even abandon. That is driven by tariffs imposed by close trading partners. By open talk of military action against a native -- nato ally. Watching back the commitments in europe and the pacific.
▶ 0:21:36Our allies and partners provide critical intelligence that complements our own and when these relationships are jeopardized america is less safe. I want to briefly focus on election security.
▶ 0:21:51I often noted and I know all the members of the committee appreciate it that it was to the credit of president trump during the first term that we build a robust infrastructure to identify adversary attempts to interfere in U.S. elections.
▶ 0:22:15As you know the nsa and prior leadership play an important role in all of those activities. It is ironic and highly unfortunate that in this term president trump and his team have literally dismantled that infrastructure they built while at the same time senior officials including the person responsible for leading the intelligence committee appear willing to blur the line.
▶ 0:22:48There are only two explanations for why the director of national intelligence decided yesterday to show up at a federal raid tied to the president's obsession with relitigating the 2020 election. She believes there is a legitimate foreign intelligence nexus. In which case he has violated her legal obligation to keep this intelligence committee fully and completely informed.
▶ 0:23:19Or she is simply attempting to inject the nonpartisan intelligence community into a domestic political stunt designed to legitimize conspiracy theories that undermine our democracy. Either scenario represents a serious breach of trust and the solemn office that she holds.
▶ 0:23:42I will be looking to you among others to ensure that we could defeat real adversarial's and ensure the intelligence community never allows itself to be used to advance political narratives instead of protecting domestic institutions. There are other issues and I know we have a robust discussion about section 702.
▶ 0:24:10I look forward to working with you as I expect you will be confirmed. I look forward to your presentation.
▶ 0:24:22Chair Cotton: The committee has a series of standard questions we posed to each nominee that require a yes or no answer for the record. Here we go, do you agree to appear before the committee here and in other venues? When invited?
▶ 0:24:45Mr. Rudd -- General Rudd: Yes. >> do you agree to provide documents or any other materials requested by the committee to carry out the oversight responsibilities?
▶ 0:25:02General Rudd: Yes.
▶ 0:25:05Chair Cotton: Do you agree to inform and fully briefed to the fullest extent possible all members of this committee of intelligence and covert actions rather than only the chairman and vice chairman?
▶ 0:25:20General Rudd: Yes, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:25:22Chair Cotton: Thank you. We will proceed to your opening statement and that we will go to members by seniority.
▶ 0:25:33General Rudd: Chairman cotton, vice chairman warner and distinguished members of the committee, I'm honored and humbled to appear before you today is nominee for the director of national security and the chief center security office in cyber command. I want to thank president trump, secretary hegseth for the nomination and trusted me to lead this critical national security role. I would like to acknowledge my family in attendance.
▶ 0:26:05General Rudd: My wife, best friend, and partner in this journey. They signed transportation is also here along with our son-in-law who is a data scientist and ai engineer. I know she is watching along with our extended family in south carolina.
▶ 0:26:28General Rudd: Each of you have made profound sacrifices that have been instrumental in my life of service. You have impacted our military and civilian communities and I'm grateful for your unwavering support. My career has been shaped by men and women who I have served. I'm indebted to the core whose leadership and professionalism have inspired me for the past three plus decades.
▶ 0:26:59General Rudd: We must always remember and honor our nation's fallen and their families who have made the ultimate sacrifice. My path has been unconventional before I was transferred to special forces. This has given me a unique operational lens.
▶ 0:27:17General Rudd: I spent 25 years leading special operations visions integrating high consequence capabilities that has given me a practical understanding of using intelligence to drive success while ensuring the protection of our most critical methods. These roles involve pioneering highly technical solutions through close collaboration with american industry and ensuring these systems were woven into operations.
▶ 0:27:44General Rudd: By last 6.5 years have made clear we are witnessing a surgeon adversarial activity. These threats are amplified by low cost, widespread proliferation of technologies including ai, cyber capabilities and autonomous systems that place advanced capabilities in the hands of a broad range of actors. Today's threats are no longer distant, they are immediate challenges.
▶ 0:28:13General Rudd: Through a growing ecosystem of trusted partners in industry and academia we are developing, experimenting, and improving solutions to address these challenges head-on. This pursuit of excellence is central to my professionally those it reflects american innovation.
▶ 0:28:37General Rudd: As a leader, consumer, enabler, generator, integrator, nsa and cyber commands capabilities my focus has been on defending the homeland and strengthening partnerships by delivering critical technologically advanced capabilities in all domains.
▶ 0:28:55General Rudd: I'm prepared to lead these organizations as an integrated and essential team dedicated to increasing the speed and agility of our support for the nation's toughest challenges while cultivating and retaining a uniquely qualified workforce. Central to this will be the delivering of accurate intelligence with frequent transparent communication and absolute fidelity to our constitution.
▶ 0:29:22General Rudd: My focus will be to lead nsa in its final intelligence mission driven by innovation with a commitment for a analysis. If confirmed, I look forward to working with you closely and your questions.
▶ 0:29:39Chair Cotton: You have an extensive career as a special forces operator. You have deployed numerous times . We have seen cyber plan increasing role. Could you give us a flavor of how you used or supported cyber operations and what lessons you have learned?
▶ 0:30:10General Rudd: The vast amount of joint, combined, interagency roles I have had the privilege to fulfill throughout my career especially in combat operations has generated an experience that is rich where we work closely with the interagency. The most recent example I could share is the committee briefing that we had previously.
▶ 0:30:42General Rudd: A rich experience of working collaboratively. Throughout my career the foreign intelligence capability and the mission set has informed and certainly enhanced and enabled mission outcomes in a variety of missions that. Equally is experience with cyber command and cyber capabilities.
▶ 0:31:09General Rudd: They work hand-in-hand and when they are integrated across all domains. When we think about and talk about deterrence there's an opportunity to couple what dod is doing with the whole of government.
▶ 0:31:24Chair Cotton: As I mentioned and you alluded to this is technically two jobs. How have you thought about balancing the roles of those jobs ensuring both missions are executed effectively?
▶ 0:31:42General Rudd: Mr. chairman, I think I would draw upon my experience right now as an opportunity to learn and highlight the responsibility not only geographically but it spans the entirety of the joint force. To your point, two giant organizations.
▶ 0:32:16General Rudd: The scale and size of it are manageable. What I would hope to do is ensure the unique capabilities and authorities that both of these organizations bring to bear are fully integrated within the support of each other's missions and in support of the war fighter and providing the best option to our decision-makers.
▶ 0:32:37Sen. Klobuchar: Have you developed any --
▶ 0:32:40Chair Cotton: Have you developed any thoughts on how that would need to change to ensure the missions are balanced?
▶ 0:32:48General Rudd: One of my priorities if confirmed would be scale across both organizations not only in the workforce within the capabilities of technologies. My understanding is there is a deliberate approach in effect right now to train and equip the cyber force. If confirmed I would like to understand how that is being implemented.
▶ 0:33:16Chair Cotton: The vice chairman noted, title vii expires in less than three months unless congress re-authorizes it. It explicitly replies to foreign nationals on foreign territory. Could you talk to us about how critical it is for the nsa's mission and how detrimental it would be if it were to expire?
▶ 0:33:45General Rudd: From an operational perspective, it focuses on non-us persons outside of the U.S. throughout my career and my first-hand experience as a consumer of that intelligence, it is indispensable. It has been critical to mission outcomes.
▶ 0:34:15General Rudd: I know it has saved lives here on the homeland.
▶ 0:34:19Sen. Warner: Enjoyed our conversation and I will ask you a couple of questions. I have great faith that you will answer yes but I want to get these on the record. Do I have your commitment that if you are confirmed you will stand up to your workforce if they are unfairly targeted?
▶ 0:34:42General Rudd: You do.
▶ 0:34:45Sen. Warner: Do I have your commitment and this is one of the things I'm extraordinarily concerned about, they have to speak truth to power. You will always be candid with policymakers even if you have to tell them something they don't want to hear?
▶ 0:35:02General Rudd: I will.
▶ 0:35:09Sen. Warner: I think your record reflects that. The director of national intelligence appearing from 2020 which I have no idea what they were doing there.
▶ 0:35:27Sen. Warner: I am concerned that we have seen much of the election security and infrastructure put in place by the first trump administration playing a critical role being dismantled. There is no less threat from foreign adversaries.
▶ 0:35:49Sen. Warner: Do I have your commitment that if confirmed the nsa will continue to prioritize information sharing like threats to U.S. elections?
▶ 0:36:00General Rudd: Mr. vice chairman you do. The electoral process is fundamental. Throughout my entire career, I think anything that poses a threat to the electoral process needs to be taken seriously. If confirmed I commit to working with the executive and the legislative.
▶ 0:36:36Sen. Warner: They played a very important role. This is something we have not talked about but we all know ai has enormous potential. In both dod and the intelligence committees looking to take advantage. We also know there is a member of the ai tools that have the possibility to hallucinate.
▶ 0:37:06Sen. Warner: I have been concerned that the secretary of defense has started to unleash ai across classified and unclassified networks including models such as x's ai b grok.
▶ 0:37:30Sen. Warner: Would you assure policies are in place to safeguard the critical mission and we will use these ai tools that there are public safeguards?
▶ 0:37:42General Rudd: This is a critical area of competition and I know they are relying critically on the adoption of ai. My understanding and really the approach we have taken with the adoption of these technologies is while they are absolutely imperative to advancing our skill set, we will never have
▶ 0:38:16General Rudd: The responsibility to maintain those guardrails. They are in the loop in terms of what those technologies are providing, and how we apply them. You have my commitment.
▶ 0:38:28Sen. Warner: I think in your testimony you noted north korea's heavy reliance on cryptocurrency. In the midst of our callings deeply involved in trying to make sure the market structure for crypto and the incredibly important part of our financial system going forward.
▶ 0:39:00Sen. Warner: Do you believe the federal government needs to do more across the agency to disrupt and debate for maligned actors access to these digital ecosystems?
▶ 0:39:11General Rudd: That is something I would have to take a closer look at. Certainly we are looking at it as what it means for national security. I confirmed -- if confirmed I committed to looking at that.
▶ 0:39:28Sen. Warner: Crypto has great possibilities. It is not going away. There are some national security implications around this that we have to get right.
▶ 0:39:41Sen. Collins: Thank you. General, I want to follow up on that discussion that we had in our meeting that relates to some degree to questions. I have been greatly concerned about cybersecurity issues, the private sector, critical infrastructure.
▶ 0:40:07Sen. Collins: Ransomware attacks and intrusions continue at an alarming rate. When it comes to the federal government's defense capabilities, we seem to be stove piped.
▶ 0:40:30Sen. Collins: Your predecessor, they have all used terms like team effort, collaboration, coordination. There appears to be no link. Yet we see these ongoing attacks. Just last month, and intrusion was detected at the house of representatives.
▶ 0:40:57Sen. Collins: We need to stop these intrusions. We need to secure our critical infrastructure from being taken over by hostile actors. We have seen in the state of maine hospital data being hacked with some of the most sensitive data possible.
▶ 0:41:23Sen. Collins: What could we do to detect, seize, and get ahead of some of these cyber intrusions?
▶ 0:41:33General Rudd: I appreciate the opportunity to meet. On this topic first and foremost it is aggressive vigilance. We have to understand what the threats are, where they are made from and what are the options of capabilities that could be applied.
▶ 0:41:57General Rudd: The various entities across the government, my experience as continuous collaboration effort is what makes this cost effective. I pledge to be a part of that.
▶ 0:42:16Sen. Collins: Do you see yourself as being the lead to combat this ever-increasing threat?
▶ 0:42:23General Rudd: Ics as a lead from the department and the military aspect. Certainly on the cyber capability piece I don't know that we have been designated the lead for this effort.
▶ 0:42:42Sen. Collins: That is part of the problem. We do need a designated lead. Let me switch to another issue. We understand the department of defense has prioritized the adoption of artificial intelligence to secure american military ai dominance. My understanding is this is meant to help drive efficiencies and improve decision-making.
▶ 0:43:12Sen. Collins: The adoption is not without risk. It has the potential to introduce significant cyber risk if the ai systems themselves are not properly protected and managed.
▶ 0:43:37Sen. Collins: As the incoming director, how would you bridge that gap between the adoption of ai and ai security? I think that is a critically important topic. With any new technology there is always risk of what I see as an imperative. We adopt and imply it.
▶ 0:44:05Sen. Collins: I know there is efforts going on around ai security that extends through collaboration through commercial partners. Certainly we have to make sure we protect that. >> we have talked in the past about this question of cyber.
▶ 0:44:36Sen. Collins: Our adversaries pay no price you believe it would be important for us to establish a deterrence strategy that our adversaries would be aware of with decision-making as to whether or not we would launch a cyber attack?
▶ 0:45:05General Rudd: Thanks for the opportunity to meet and appreciate the opportunity to revisit this topic.
▶ 0:45:21Sen. King: I hope you will work with at sam cyber come, otherwise we could never patch our way out of this problem. They will continue to evolve. Make them have second thoughts about whether to attack this country in cyberspace. Just want to reiterate your conversation with the vice chairman.
▶ 0:45:44Sen. King: It is so important in our community provide candid, clear, political advice to policymakers because otherwise we could have real catastrophes involving national security. We want to reiterate that you are committed to that.
▶ 0:46:09Sen. King: It's going to be a little harder if you are sitting in the oval office or a setting that is inherently intimidating. I want you to reiterate your commitment. Straight talk, straight advice, is that correct?
▶ 0:46:26General Rudd: I am committed to that as I have been. I am a leader who has been candid and given the best advice even if it wasn't popular.
▶ 0:46:45Sen. King: I know you came to realize the value of the allies that we have. My work on this committee, I have come to realize our asymmetric advantage in the world's allies. China has customers, we have allies. It is so important to maintain those relationships.
▶ 0:47:07Sen. King: Talk to me a little bit about the 5 I's and how important it is to maintain the intelligence sharing enterprise particularly to be sure there is a trusting relationship so that we will have a maximum advantage of our allies to work with us in order to protect the national security of this country.
▶ 0:47:34General Rudd: I have had the incredible fortune throughout my career to serve alongside, with, and through allies and partners. Our strategic documents identify clearly the importance of that and the emphasis we put on that.
▶ 0:47:57General Rudd: Some of my closest colleagues in professional relationships rely upon as a relates to end ok,, it is a daily effort. We operate together, we exercise together, we trained together. That is part of our strategic approach.
▶ 0:48:30Sen. King: Allies are a tremendous force multiplier for our ability to have policies respected and have our national security protected.
▶ 0:48:40General Rudd: I think that's a great way to characterize it.
▶ 0:48:49Sen. Lankford: Thank you for your decades of service and for stepping up into this role. I think it would be helpful for you to be able to articulate the threats, as you look around the globe and the issues out there, what would you see as some of the principal threats?
▶ 0:49:22General Rudd: My assessment aligns with our national security strategy and how we articulate the priorities certainly from where I sit at U.S. and ok come, china, russia, north korea, those are all critical threats that we pay attention to.
▶ 0:49:45General Rudd: I think it is pretty clear that those two state actors, certainly iran poses threats to the nation. Violent extremists will be a problem. I think increasingly narcotics and terrorists.
▶ 0:50:12Sen. Lankford: Dealing with how we prepare for a response and deterrence. You would have the unique responsibility for preparing a portfolio. You have the decisions on that. You will have the role of handing that to him. My question to you is what do you plan to do to prepare that set of options?
▶ 0:50:39Sen. Lankford: What are your boundaries and limitations to say these are the options that you have that fall within legal bounds that are also an effective deterrent.
▶ 0:50:50General Rudd: I think it speaks to how I would frame my priorities in the initial approach. Making an assessment of where the organizations are at. The first priority is speed, the second one is scale, innovation, integration.
▶ 0:51:12General Rudd: We have to move as fast as we can to ensure we have the right technologies, capabilities, and are able to generate multiple options. We need to be able to scale those options and not only scale within the size of the workforce as we mentioned relative to cyber command size. There is an approach to address that. Increasingly we look at other partnerships as a means to scale.
▶ 0:51:42General Rudd: Innovation, that is an asymmetric advantage. That is something we do better than anybody. We have to harness innovation. I would empower workforce to explore, try, fail, figure out what is working. They have to be integrated across the joint force. Increasingly those options should be provided that enable us to integrate and share those with other elements of national power.
▶ 0:52:12Sen. Lankford: You have been a consumer. I have noticed over the past 10 years that the documents in the analysis have gotten safer and safer and safer. I can't tell what this is trying to tell me.
▶ 0:52:44Sen. Lankford: One of the challenges to make sure the documents that are written and reports that are done, just say it bluntly that there is a sense of permission to say it frankly. Even at times they don't have a perception of being safe.
▶ 0:53:11Sen. Lankford: I would encourage you to stay frank instead of safe. You don't have to respond to that one way or the other. One last question that I have as a follow-up, I think what I'm looking for, for anything is clarifying for the american people the protections put in place to protect the american people that no one is spying on them but also making it clear this is an essential authority
▶ 0:53:43Sen. Lankford: To protect the safety of the nation. I'm looking for not just someone who will stand up and say yes we need that but someone who will be an advocate to explain that. To be able to articulate how the american people are protected. Is that you?
▶ 0:54:00General Rudd: If confirmed, certainly I would do everything I can to provide the best advice as we look to extend this critical authority.
▶ 0:54:15Sen. Wyden: Thank you. Enjoyed talking with you know that one of the key issues for me in this position is basically a hearing to what ben franklin was talking about. That is what we talked about.
▶ 0:54:38Sen. Wyden: As we talked about getting into more specifics not to pin you down, to get a sense of where you are actually headed on striking that balance I think is so essential. The administration a number of months ago decided that they could break into homes without a judicial warrant. They said the fourth amendment does not matter anymore.
▶ 0:55:07Sen. Wyden: Here is the question a little bit broader than I talked about with you yesterday. We could find some common ground. If you are directed to target people in the united states for surveillance, were you insistent that there be a judicial warrant?
▶ 0:55:33General Rudd: I appreciate that, this question speaks to the nsa. If confirmed I will absolutely commit to executing the foreign intelligence mission with the authorities.
▶ 0:56:08Sen. Wyden: That doesn't get close to what I'm talking about. That is as vague as anything I've heard on the subject. It seems to me that unfamiliarity with basic constitutional rights is not something that could be accepted in this position. It is so crucial and I continue to believe that it is not mutually exclusive.
▶ 0:56:37Sen. Wyden: Smart policies give you security and liberty. Not so smart policies give you less of both. Would you like to take another crack at telling me a little bit? I'm interested in hearing in your words how you might deal with one of these issues. Not to spell it out in text but to get a sense of how you would strike this extraordinarily important issue.
▶ 0:57:09General Rudd: Again, as we discussed I have the utmost respect and commitment to the civil liberties outlined in the constitution. I swore an oath to uphold that.
▶ 0:57:28Sen. Wyden: Let's move on so we can get more questions. Do you believe person searches of section 702 should require a warrant except in emergencies which has been largely the position of those who would like to find some common ground as we go forward?
▶ 0:57:52Sen. Wyden: Look if somebody says this is a four alarm crisis, they could get the information they need and come back, this strikes me again as the instructed staff. What are your thoughts with respect to saying you should have a warrant except in emergencies?
▶ 0:58:14General Rudd: That is a topic I would need to look into and get a better understanding and give you a more complete answer. What I would highlight is supreme confidence they are committed to protecting civil liberties and privacy of the american citizens.
▶ 0:58:39Sen. Wyden: Let me go a little bit further on the greenland issue. Donald trump's threat to invade greenland is just one of many ways in my view that would damage nato how concerned are you that these relationships could be damaged by the current tensions that we are talking
▶ 0:59:09Sen. Wyden: About now?
▶ 0:59:20General Rudd: The alliances and partnerships are absolutely critical.
▶ 0:59:29Sen. Rounds: Thank you for your service to the country. I have appreciated your discussions on the services. I look forward to supporting the nomination. I thought this was an opportunity of public discussion that we could share with the american people.
▶ 1:00:02Sen. Rounds: Gather good data to make good decisions. Also how we protect the american public from adversaries that have pretty decent offensive weapon systems. If we could for just a minute, let's talk about artificial intelligence.
▶ 1:00:23Sen. Rounds: Make some folks in the united states today have died if we have concerns about this, this new thing about making decisions very quickly, which is what artificial intelligence allows. What happens if we were to simply say we will take our time in terms of deploying artificial intelligence and our data gathering or an hour weapon systems, does that stop an adversary in any way shape or
▶ 1:00:55Sen. Rounds: Form from integrating artificial intelligence as quickly as they can?
▶ 1:01:01General Rudd: Senator, it wouldn't. I think this is an area of competition we have to accelerate in. It is a critical capability, into the joint war fighting functions has got to be adopted. That is what will enable us to maintain our advantage in all of these categories.
▶ 1:01:29Sen. Rounds: Would be fair to say speed could make the difference between life and death in that situation?
▶ 1:01:40General Rudd: That is certainly my experience.
▶ 1:01:49Sen. Rounds: Would be fair to say that if we deploy our tools faster than the bad guys can and we provide assistance to our young men and women in uniform at a faster pace and give them more information that we save lives?
▶ 1:02:10General Rudd: I would agree with that. The examples you give are very personal to me. I understand what it means to command forces into harm's way and make decisions quickly so we could protect our forces. This is a strategic advantage. Our decision-making, speed, ability to outthink and outmaneuver the opponent is critically important as well.
▶ 1:02:45Sen. Rounds: We talked about the needs and I fully support the continuation of 702 operations. The data that we are able to collect overseas because of what we collect using 702. I know there's always a concern that we not collect any information on U.S. citizens.
▶ 1:03:09Sen. Rounds: Could you talk a little bit about what it means to a young man or woman on the front lines and the ability for us to know in advance what the bad guy is going to be doing near or around their areas and how critical it is that we take advantage of those opportunities to collect that data and not tie the hands of individuals that collect it?
▶ 1:03:30General Rudd: I would again offer my personal experience as a war fighter where I know that authority has enabled nsa to provide timely foreign intelligence to the war fighter that has saved lives.
▶ 1:03:49Sen. Rounds: I will go one step further with regards to artificial intelligence. We can't simply rely on what we call government sources. We need to work with the private sector.
▶ 1:04:06Sen. Rounds: A lot of the data out there in terms of making a I work even closer could you talk about how important it is to make us faster than the adversaries?
▶ 1:04:26General Rudd: It seems reasonable that would naturally accelerate and be able to scale. I would also highlight that as we do that, the same respect and safeguard for civil liberties be here too.
▶ 1:04:42Sen. Kelly: Thank you. Just like senator rounds I wanted to talk about ai, I want to start by saying I have a legislation with senator warner and senator cornyn and senator lankford that is going to get us moving faster on this and also
▶ 1:05:13Sen. Kelly: Advance ai security readiness. It is going to help with something that you talked about, the private sector more involved. I think we all agree we need to move faster and innovate more when the world is moving incredibly fast, especially with ai and these tools being developed and the novel methodologies.
▶ 1:05:44Sen. Kelly: Especially when we are talking about a highly classified work environment. And highly classified data. Could you talk in more detail about how you are going to approach integrated ai and other tech tools into nsa systems that we currently have while guarding against the risk?
▶ 1:06:16General Rudd: Senator, I would offer on risk, the first way that we mitigate risk is to understand it. What do we need to do to ensure that we are continuously assessing that we provided a solution to that within the realm of ai and obviously the data is a key part of this and
▶ 1:06:47General Rudd: Equally important in a layer of cybersecurity around that. How do you ensure that it is feeding the right models. Equally important is the ability to protect that data. Nsa has that responsibility. They are executing it very well. If confirmed, it would be a high priority of mine.
▶ 1:07:17Sen. Kelly: One of my colleagues brought up the election threat issue, certainly ai being used by our adversaries against us will be more significant than what we have ever seen before.
▶ 1:07:37Sen. Kelly: On the 702 question we will have to reauthorize that here in just a few months. I don't think the public understands what this is. The acronym, the number, the letter after it seems like something out of reach for most people.
▶ 1:08:09Sen. Kelly: Could you try to explain here in just about 30 seconds or so why this should matter to the average american?
▶ 1:08:21General Rudd: As plain of language as I could put it is first and foremost, the collection of foreign intelligence against non-us persons located outside the united states. What I have experienced in my career is this provides the war fighter, the decision-maker the ability to have critical insight into threats.
▶ 1:08:52General Rudd: We talked about critical to speed is a deep understanding.
▶ 1:09:03Sen. Kelly: They shouldn't have to pay much attention to this, how does it affect them? What are the consequences to them and their children? Let's say a few months from now if they did not reauthorize?
▶ 1:09:18General Rudd: My experience is quite simply save lives.
▶ 1:09:28Sen. Kelly: Could we be talking about their lives, friends, coworkers?
▶ 1:09:37General Rudd: The lives of men and women in harm's way. I would put that in the category to save lives.
▶ 1:09:46Sen. Kelly: I agree with you and I think that is a key part of this. This is an authority that the intelligence community has and the reason it has it is it keeps americans safer. Not just dod, not people who are regularly in harm's way. It results in safety for the american people. Thank you.
▶ 1:10:17Sen. Budd: Thank you for your years of service. Enjoyed our conversation. We talk a lot about this morning and the conversation at the office around the many hats and you certainly have the experience to do that. The invasion by china to taiwan and it is no longer peace time.
▶ 1:10:48Sen. Budd: How do you balance the roles in a situation like that as best as you could see it?
▶ 1:10:54General Rudd: It's a continuous assessment of the situation where the balance lies between the organizations and the capabilities that each brings to bear. On the other side you need to be able to deliver capabilities that change the course before conflict.
▶ 1:11:23General Rudd: There is obviously a constant awareness and understanding of that. I think the current construct puts us in a position to make decisions over those two rapidly.
▶ 1:11:42Sen. Budd: We talked about your years of service to get to this point. This is a highly technical civilian organization and is different than a lot of what you have done before. You think you will be adapting your military experience to lead an organization like this.
▶ 1:12:07General Rudd: If confirmed I look forward to this unique experience and challenge gaining a deeper appreciation of the largely civilian highly technical workforce. My career today is not without those experiences and opportunities perhaps. This would definitely be a different one.
▶ 1:12:33General Rudd: What I have always applied to any organization but certainly ones that are different or have different capabilities or expertise is first a willingness to get in and learn as much as we can but connect with the workforce. Connect on a personal level. Get to know them. Get to understand their culture.
▶ 1:13:04General Rudd: During the connection and understanding what the workforce , it enables a leader to best position themselves to empower, enable incredible expertise. I look forward to this organization.
▶ 1:13:28Sen. Budd: I found that interesting. Yet the agency has some of the best cybersecurity expertise. It does produce that look and read a lot like finished intelligence. Is that a good policy?
▶ 1:13:50General Rudd: That is something I would want to take a look at and come back to you with a recommendation on.
▶ 1:13:59Sen. Budd: You will look to seat about policy needs to be modified?
▶ 1:14:05General Rudd: If confirmed I will look into it.
▶ 1:14:09Sen. Budd: Thank you. Where do you see opportunities to work with our partners like japan, philippines, taiwan to build capacity with cyber threats. How could we cooperate with them more?
▶ 1:14:30Gen. Rudd: Senator, we are doing it on a daily basis. There is an opportunity to do more, but there is a deliberate approach to work with allies and partners. There is tremendous opportunity to do more, certainly on the cyber front. If confirmed, I would look forward to exploring those opportunities.
▶ 1:14:51Sen. Budd: Thank you, chairman.
▶ 1:14:52Chair Cotton: Senator gillibrand?
▶ 1:14:57Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you, Mr. chairman. For nearly a decade, the intelligence community produced a steady stream of relevant intelligence on foreign threats to U.S. elections, informing national policymakers. We you continue to disseminate intelligence reporting to congress on activity targeting U.S. elections?
▶ 1:15:17Gen. Rudd: Senator, the electoral process is fundamental to our democratic values, and americans writ large. I have committed throughout my career to serve to defend and uphold those values. Any foreign threat to the electoral process should be viewed as a national security concern.
▶ 1:15:43Gen. Rudd: Senator, if confirmed for this, I commit to working with executive and legislative sides on this.
▶ 1:15:51Sen. Gillibrand: I appreciate that. In your responses to the senate armed services committee, you suggested, similar to that statement, that U.S. election defense is better positioned in the past given efforts with interagency partners, which allows the rapid sharing of threat intelligence. Under this administration, key elements of that interagency process have been eliminated. As in the case of the fbi's foreign influence task force.
▶ 1:16:18Sen. Gillibrand: Or been paralyzed from funding cuts and rollbacks of information sharing duties. Do you believe there is still an effective interagency for you to engage with?
▶ 1:16:27Gen. Rudd: Senator, if confirmed for this role, I would look forward to being part of whatever the construct exists. Certainly, throughout my career, I have seen and I have been a part of a number of the efforts. If confirmed, I look forward to being part of this. Sen.
▶ 1:16:50Gen. Rudd: Gillibrand several years ago, I led the creation of the dod cyber service academy scholarship program, which creates a cleared and trained workforce pipeline. These are for nonmilitary roles, appropriate for nsa, cia, and other civilian positions. Since then, I have worked with my colleagues to continue to improve this program and expand the number of scholarships.
▶ 1:17:15Gen. Rudd: What value do you see in the program, and how would increasing the number of scholarships benefit nsa's work? If confirmed, do I have your commitment to work with me on this project?
▶ 1:17:26Gen. Rudd: Senator, I would certainly like to learn more about this. The way you described this concept, it certainly seems like an avenue that can be explored to enhance and expand the scale of the workforce. Certainly an opportunity to generate talent for the workforce. Senator, if confirmed, I look forward to learning more about this.
▶ 1:17:47Sen. Gillibrand: When we created it, it has up to a thousand slots a year, but we have not done a good job of telling our high schools around the country that these scholarships are available, and so we have not had sufficient applications. In the last few years, it has been in the hundreds, not in the thousands, so all slots are not being filled. We have also worked to get more schools signed up.
▶ 1:18:10Sen. Gillibrand: There is over 600 schools across the country that signed up for this rotc type program, as long as they have the curriculum that our security and intelligence teams need across the dod and across the intel community. So I would like your commitment also to work with us in making sure high school students around the country know about this, and that all your services no that they can find great graduates through this program.
▶ 1:18:36Gen. Rudd: Senator, again, I look forward to learning as much as I can about this and supporting it as able.
▶ 1:18:46Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you. Last year, dni gabbard fired over 100 intelligence officers deemed to be misusing the chat program by the nsa. These officers were alleged to have miss use these systems, in some cases with valid allegations of inappropriate conduct, in others for potential discriminatory reasons.
▶ 1:19:07Sen. Gillibrand: You have answered about your review and judgment with regard to the use of ai platforms on nsa systems. What is your perspective on making sure these systems are not misused to harass or target other service members or intelligence personnel?
▶ 1:19:26Gen. Rudd: Yes, senator, I appreciate the concerns. Certainly, the responsibility of any leader of any organization is to safeguard the workforce and ensure that there is compliance within how we use the tools and systems to accomplish the mission. If confirmed for this role, I would pledge to continue that.
▶ 1:19:49Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you.
▶ 1:19:50Chair Cotton: Senator young.
▶ 1:19:53Sen. Young: General rudd, good to see you again. I appreciate your answers to my questions. You noted in your committee questionnaire before this hearing that one of your priorities for improving nsa's coordination with the rest of the ic will rely on fostering interagency training exercises and experimentation. Can you unpack this for the committee, please?
▶ 1:20:24Gen. Rudd: Senator, I think the way that we build connective tissue through organizations not only within the department but, to the point of the question, within the interagency, is through repetitions and sets, whether it be training exercises, tabletop exercises. Those are ways that we exercise the muscle and connective tissue of organizations and enhance the way we work together.
▶ 1:20:56Sen. Young: Thank you. You also noted in your questionnaire a desire to leverage commercial innovation. We hear about this a lot. We need to hear about this. But beyond the obvious role for commercial tech sector to play in making nsa more effective, more cutting edge, can you speak to how you might seek to increase opportunities for outside experts to come in, to lead on emerging tech or economic competition, to enhance your analytical capabilities?
▶ 1:21:27Gen. Rudd: Yes, senator. I think that is a critically important effort, and certainly, we need to look at every opportunity to expand our expertise. Cyber calm and nsa have tremendous expertise, talent -- probably the best in the world at what they do. And we have to continuously find those opportunities where we learn and enhance. Never be complacent that what we are doing is sufficient.
▶ 1:21:58Gen. Rudd: Especially in a world of technology that is moving so fast. So much of the commercial sector is moving at a very fast-paced.
▶ 1:22:09Sen. Young: Can you describe the role you see for nsa in helping shepherd safe and effective U.S. government and ic artificial intelligence technologies, especially through the ai security center?
▶ 1:22:22Gen. Rudd: Thanks, senator. That is the example I was going to mention. We have to use intel-driven understanding to make recommendations and solutions to enhance the security around ai, not only within the department, the organization, but with our commercial partners.
▶ 1:22:48Sen. Young: Will you commit to working with this committee and identifying any shortfalls, whether it is of resources, authorities, or prioritization for nsa and the ic's development and use of ai?
▶ 1:23:05Gen. Rudd: Senator, the role of any commander, any director, is to identify what those are. If confirmed, I would look into that.
▶ 1:23:16Sen. Young: Thank you, chairman.
▶ 1:23:18Chair Cotton: Senator ossoff.
▶ 1:23:22Sen. Ossoff: Thank you, Mr. chairman. General, thank you for your career of service to the united states, and congratulations on your nomination to this important post. Before I engage with you, I just want to note for the committee that my constituents in georgia and I think much of the american public are quite reasonably alarmed and asking questions after a director of national intelligence was spotted
▶ 1:23:53Sen. Ossoff: Bizarrely and personally looking in an fbi evidence truck in fulton county, georgia, yesterday. So I encourage all of us on a bipartisan basis to pursue the facts as swiftly as possible, to understand whether the office of the director of national intelligence is straying far outside of its lane.
▶ 1:24:18Sen. Ossoff: On a related -- [no audio] I regret to share my observation. That the president, at this point, is clearly using federal law enforcement in order to pursue personal vendettas.
▶ 1:24:40Sen. Ossoff: That has nothing to do with you in your career to date, nor is it something for which I hold you accountable and would expect you to explain. But it is a well-known fact, and it quite reasonably, given the immense surveillance capabilities of the national security agency, raises the concern that there might be some abuse of the nsa's authorities.
▶ 1:25:05Sen. Ossoff: And so my question for you is that if there is some alteration or withdrawal of current prohibitions, administrative prohibitions, on surveillance targeting americans -- for example, in executive order 1233, uss I.d. 18, or otherwise -- will you promptly inform this committee, with our oversight responsibilities, of such a change?
▶ 1:25:34Gen. Rudd: Senator, I will pledge if confirmed to ensure that the nsa executes its mission within the authorities of all applicable laws and I will execute the duties of this position that enables this committee to exercise its oversight responsibilities.
▶ 1:25:54Sen. Ossoff: I appreciate the answer and want you to think more deeply about the question and consult with your team and follow up with more precision for the record, because the challenge I am identifying is that you may be asked to do things that are manifestly unethical and improper, but following some alteration of the present administrative policy, may indeed be lawful.
▶ 1:26:18Sen. Ossoff: And this committee needs to know if such administrative policies, which currently protect american civil but are not in statute, are changed. In my view would be that under existing law, anyone in the seat that you hope to hold would have a statutory obligation to inform this committee of any such change. So I hope to get some more detail beyond boilerplate on that, for the record.
▶ 1:26:48Sen. Ossoff: You will also be taking this post, general, if confirmed -- can I get a commitment that you will respond with a more fulsome answer for the record, please?
▶ 1:26:56Gen. Rudd: Senator, I look forward to looking into that topic and responding to you.
▶ 1:27:01Sen. Ossoff: If confirmed, you will take this post after a series of events that suggest a crisis for information security and operational security practices in the federal government. We had the secretary of defense inadvertently text strike details to a national political reporter, including time over target for U.S. aircrews before those U.S. aircrews had launched into hostile enemy airspace.
▶ 1:27:32Sen. Ossoff: Multiple major news outlets were reportedly aware of the imminent raid targeting maduro in venezuela, before the raid was executed. This week, here is a headline from politico. Trump's acting cyber chief uploaded sensitive files into a public version of chatgpt.
▶ 1:27:53Sen. Ossoff: Nsa has a crucial role supporting information security, cryptographic integrity, and best practices across the federal government. How will you, in your role, constructively address these many failures and the broader problem of information security failures in the federal government?
▶ 1:28:14Gen. Rudd: Senator, I recognize the critical role that nsa plays in this space. Certainly, if confirmed, I pledge to ensure that it continues to execute its mission to its fullest.
▶ 1:28:29Chair Cotton: Senator cornyn.
▶ 1:28:34Sen. Cornyn: General, congratulations on your nomination. I appreciate the ability to talk to you. Because of weather concerns, I was on the phone. You obviously have a record of distinguished service to our nation, and I look forward to supporting your nomination.
▶ 1:28:52Sen. Cornyn: In your current capacity as deputy commander of indo pay, -- incopa com, do you have to talk to a lawyer or more than one lawyer?
▶ 1:29:04Gen. Rudd: There is a talented legal team.
▶ 1:29:10Sen. Cornyn: It seems like a blessing or a curse, speaking as a recovering lawyer myself. It seems like you cannot make a move without consulting legal authorities. Do you happen to know how many lawyers are at nsa cyber calm? -- com? It is a whole bunch, and they are very talented.
▶ 1:29:32Gen. Rudd: I would guess there is and I would expect they would be.
▶ 1:29:38Sen. Cornyn: Will you be consulting with them on issues like, let's say, seven hundred two? Section 702, fisa?
▶ 1:29:46Gen. Rudd: Senator, I would expect to consult with the legal experts at cyber, and nsa on a whole host of issues, to ensure that execution of that mission set is done within the authorities consistently, and that we are never outside the bounds of that.
▶ 1:30:04Sen. Cornyn: I have no doubt about that. The judiciary committee also has jurisdiction over the 702 issue. But I, like others, believe that it is absolutely essential authority. But there is a phenomenon in washington, D.C., where certain narratives take root which have no basis in fact, and I just want to clarify a few things.
▶ 1:30:32Sen. Cornyn: First of all, one of the reasons why 702 has come under suspicion is because of its abuse in the case of carter page. But that was a title I 702, which is targeting an american citizen -- in this case, an alleged agent of a foreign power. That law is not subject to any reauthorization. It does not expire.
▶ 1:31:03Sen. Cornyn: But just in terms of 700 two, title vii, which is what we are talking about, I know there is a line of questioning by one of the panel, talking about targeting U.S. persons. You cannot target a U.S. person without a warrant, and that is under title I, not under section 700 two.
▶ 1:31:24Sen. Cornyn: But you understand that 702, title vii, addresses only foreigners abroad. Is that your understanding? It is a foreign intelligence surveillance act. -- surveillance. 4 -- gen. Rudd: that is my understanding.
▶ 1:31:53Sen. Cornyn: And it is an invaluable resource, correct?
▶ 1:31:56Gen. Rudd: In my experience it is, senator.
▶ 1:32:00Sen. Cornyn: And I am sure you, like all of us, are very attuned to the balance between national security demands and privacy of american citizens. But in this case, this is focused solely on people overseas. And so there is no targeting of american citizens. Of course, unless you have a warrant.
▶ 1:32:27Sen. Cornyn: And you have to show up in front of the foreign intelligence surveillance act court and prove that you are entitled to that warrant. But we are not talking about that here. But here again, in the sea, it seems like whoever has the -- that you have this phenomenon of competing narratives. And I read a long time ago that whoever has the best narrative wins in the debates here in washington, D.C., whether or not they are based on fact.
▶ 1:32:54Sen. Cornyn: Another issue that has come up and -- let me just ask, and I mean this with all due respect. You have an incredible record. But you are not a lawyer by training, are you, sir?
▶ 1:33:05Gen. Rudd: No, senator. I am not.
▶ 1:33:10Sen. Cornyn: You are unburdened by that credential. So that is why you are going to be talking to your lawyers before you make any decision. But there is also this false narrative that lawfully collected intelligence, that somehow you ought to have to go out and get a search warrant in order to search what you have already lawfully collected. And of course, intelligence is perspective. -- prospective.
▶ 1:33:42Sen. Cornyn: Law enforcement is retrospective, based on trying to solve a crime. Are you prepared today -- prepared today, or would you like to give it some thought and engage further on whether or not a warrant should be required to query lawfully collected intelligence?
▶ 1:33:56Gen. Rudd: Senator, that is certainly something I would like to take a deeper look at.
▶ 1:34:03Sen. Cornyn: My time is up. Thank you.
▶ 1:34:05Chair Cotton: Thank you, general rudd, for your testimony today. It is my intention to hold a committee vote on your nomination as soon as possible. For planning purposes, any senator who wishes to submit questions for the record after today's hearing, please do so by noon tomorrow. General rudd, I trust you will be equally prompt with your answers so we can move your nomination forward as quickly as possible. Thank you all. The hearing is adjourned.