▶ 0:15:02Sen. Cantwell: I appreciate that you all made it. This hearing -- thank you. This hearing will examine a critical piece of our national infrastructure. The public safety broadband network established by the first responder network authority board commonly known as firstnet.
▶ 0:15:27Sen. Cantwell: In communities large and small, first responders save lives every single day, often in situations where each second counts and communication means the difference between life and death.
▶ 0:15:41Sen. Cantwell: Firstnet was created to give them a dedicated nationwide broadband network that is sufficient, reliable, and effective, and that wreck that stands apart from the congested commercial systems and prioritizes public safety users first. Today, with millions of connections operating across all 50 states and U.S.
▶ 0:16:02Sen. Cantwell: Territories, firstnet has become a communications lifeline for police officers, firefighters, ems, and other first responders. Its unique features like priority access during emergencies are tools that first responders increasingly depend upon paving reauthorizing the network before it sunsets next february means that congress needs to get to work now.
▶ 0:16:30Sen. Cantwell: Otherwise this critical network faces uncertainty, undermining years of investment and trust with public safety. Beyond simply extending firstnet's legal authority, we must ask, are we ensuring the network lives up to its promise? Recent findings by the commerce department's inspector general raised questions about weaknesses in firstnet's oversight structure.
▶ 0:17:00Sen. Cantwell: Firstnet was created as an independent authority within the commerce department to balance operational flexibility with accountability, but the inspector general's findings make clear that the current governing structure has not provided consistent performance oversight. This is not a critique of the mission, it's a call to improve the function of firstnet authority.
▶ 0:17:28Sen. Cantwell: First, we need to understand how we got here. When firstnet was conceived in the wake of the 9/11 attacks, it was a complex undertaking, national, mission-critical network with strict public safety requirements, uncertain economics, and no proven business model. At&t was the only mobile carrier willing and able to make a bid that met those needs.
▶ 0:17:58Sen. Cantwell: The company committed capital, technical expertise, and operational capability, to build something that never existed before. Without that bid, this network would not exist in its current form. This is an achievement but it should not be confused with a blank check.
▶ 0:18:23Sen. Cantwell: In fact, the scale and importance of the public safety assets that at&t now operates makes stronger oversight more essential, not less. Reauthorization is not about questioning good faith, it is about ensuring a network built through public-private partnerships continues to serve its core mission, the transparency, resilience, and adaptability.
▶ 0:18:54Sen. Cantwell: Finally, we cannot lose sight of the voice of first responders themselves. Independent surveys show overwhelming support from first responders for reauthorizing firstnet, not because it is perfect, but because the consequences of losing priority network access would be unthinkable. Firstnet is more than a network, it is part of our national public safety backbone.
▶ 0:19:24Sen. Cantwell: Reauthorization gives us the chance not just to maintain continuity but to improve the network for those who run toward the danger so that we can all be safe. Thank you. I would now like to recognize my friend and ranking member, senator lujan, for his opening remarks. Senator lujan.
▶ 0:19:43Sen. Lujan: Thank you, chair fischer, chair cruz, ranking member cantwell for calling the hearing on this critical issue. Thank you to each of our witnesses who are here today. The issue that we are talking about today before this committee are critically important, but I cannot go further without acknowledging what is on the lines. People across the country.
▶ 0:20:15Sen. Lujan: One of alex pretti's colleagues say the default look on his face was smiling. Another said alex wanted to be helpful, to help humanity, have a career that was a force of good in the world. We all know alex's death, he was killed. Renée good's mother said that she was one of the kind of people she ever known, extremely compassionate.
▶ 0:20:43Sen. Lujan: She was taken care of people all her life, amazing, protection, an amazing human being. Renée is also dead. She was killed. They are dead because of policy decisions made by president trump, secretary noem, and white house deputy chief stephen miller. This administration decided to ignore the pleas of minnesota's elected leadership and law enforcement by occupying and terrorizing minnesota.
▶ 0:21:11Sen. Lujan: When federal agents killed these law-abiding americans, the administration's response was to call alex pretti, the v.a. Nurse who helped veterans as they died, the trump administration called him "a domestic terrorist" and "would be assassin." whether they say about renée good, a poet and mother of three? They called her it a mystic terrorist. There are many lies by people who have no shame. They seem to take pleasure in terror communities, wrecking families, and dividing american people.
▶ 0:21:42Sen. Lujan: Last night, senator thom tillis said what all of us know. What secretary noem has done in minnesota should be disqualifying. It is just amateurish, terrible. Senator tillis is right. Senator murkowski also said kristi noem should resign or should be fired. I will add one more name to that list, stephen miller. Both failed alex and renee. Both failed the american people.
▶ 0:22:08Sen. Lujan: I asked my republican colleagues to join senator tillis and murkowski by speaking up and defending the rule of law and defending our shared humanity. What is happening now is not ok, it's not normal. People cannot pretend that. We have a chance to work together to do something here. I don't understand why this is hard. Now is the moment for accountability. We owe that to the families who are grieving their loved ones in americans suit feel like they don't recognize the country they are living in.
▶ 0:22:39Sen. Lujan: With that, chair fischer, chair cruz, I will stop and ask unanimous consent to submit my prepared opening statement on the topic of today's hearing into the record.
▶ 0:22:47Chair Fischer: Without objection. Madam chairman, senator klobuchar.
▶ 0:22:55Sen. Klobuchar: I'm here because I'm head of the 911 caucus, interested in the hearing but I wanted to thank senator lujan for his remarks about what is happening in my state, just say that I have spent a lot of time in the last few weeks with local law enforcement not just the minneapolis police chief but the sheriffs, metro police chief, and it's become really hard for them to do their normal work. That is one of the problems that is happening here.
▶ 0:23:22Sen. Klobuchar: I hope, having talked to the white house, that they will bring these ice ages out of minnesota, have already started bringing border patrol out of minnesota. I hope we can work together to overhaul this agency. With that, I will go to judiciary and come back for my questions. Thank you.
▶ 0:23:39Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator klobuchar, senator lujan for your comments. At this time, I want to introduce our panel of witnesses. Our first witness is share of michael adkinson, acting chair of the first responder network authority board. In this role, sheriff adkinson leads firstnet authority board which oversees the firstnet network and ensures it meets the needs of the public safety community.
▶ 0:24:09Chair Fischer: Our second witness is scott agnew, president of firstnet and public safety mobility at at&t. Mr. agnew oversees at&t's management and operation of the firstnet network which currently serves more than 7.8 million devices nationwide. Our third witness is cory davis, vice president of verizon frontline. In this capacity, Mr.
▶ 0:24:32Chair Fischer: Davis oversees verizon's first responder communication services, supporting more than 40 5000 public safety agencies across the united states. Our final witness is mel maier, chief executive officer and executive director of the association of public safety communication officials international. He previously served as the vice chair of firstnet authority's public safety advisory committee.
▶ 0:25:05Chair Fischer: Welcome to all of you. Sheriff adkinson, you are recognize to give your opening remarks.
▶ 0:25:10Mr. Adkinson: Thank you, chair fischer, ranking member lujan, members of the committee. I'm the acting chair of the firstnet authority. In my day job, I'm sheriff. Uniquely, a sheriff that oversees professional fire rescue, emergency medical, emergency care medical, as well as 911 communications.
▶ 0:25:36Mr. Adkinson: What we know is that 25 years ago, as you stated, this nation suffered an unimaginable tragedy , and out of that tragedy came the opportunity to be better, to predict, take actions that prevent this happening again.
▶ 0:25:51Mr. Adkinson: It was the birth of firstnet, the birth of the public broadband safety network, a network built entirely for public safety, to ensure that we are able to carry out our mission to protect the men and women of public safety, but more importantly to protect the citizens. That is the ultimate goal of what we are about and what we do. I can tell you in the decade of its existence almost at this point, I believe it to be a generational success and infrastructure.
▶ 0:26:19Mr. Adkinson: There are things that I think have made a difference, and I will reference some of those personally in just a moment, but I will say this. Tens of thousands of agencies, millions of users, the ability to have interoperable communication is critical. Firstnet has been a success in that. I'm very proud to be a part of that. As one of the early opt in states in florida, we understood this was critical.
▶ 0:26:43Mr. Adkinson: We have seen it in multiple hurricane events, unfortunate tragedies, things that sometimes are unimaginable. The ability for our first responders to communicate is without question a priority. That is what this network is ultimately about. You mentioned the inspector general report. I would be remiss if I didn't lean into them. I've been on this board for about a year and a half, there were six new board members that came in approximately october of last year.
▶ 0:27:11Mr. Adkinson: From my standpoint, this is clear, that there is one overriding responsibility, and that is to maintain the trust and integrity of the american people in what we do. To that end, we have instructed the executive director lean into these reports, resolve these issues. There is no other acceptable answer than yes. Whatever it takes to resolve these issues, that is what we will do. I think we have done a good job of working toward that. There is work to be done.
▶ 0:27:43Mr. Adkinson: Oversight and accountability is critical in any operation, particularly where people's lives are at stake. We don't have the ability to be wrong here. We have to do what is necessary to improve what we are doing and how we are doing it. You will not hear me say on you will not hear me say anything other than that. If you are explaining, you are losing. You just into resolve problems.
▶ 0:28:05Mr. Adkinson: To that end, as we move to discussion of reauthorization, a couple of things that can be considered that I think make practical solutions available to improve what we do. Let me give you an example. I mentioned there were six new board seats that came on, that is an incredibly difficult way to maintain continuity and consistency when you run aboard. We ask that you consider stagger of these terms every three years. That was the way the legislation originally intended.
▶ 0:28:34Mr. Adkinson: Once it got off cycle, the law did not allow, as I understand it, for the secretary to change it. Secondly, we would ask that you consider expanding the role of public safety on this board. There are three seats but we would ask that you dedicate five so that men and women from public safety have a direct and continued priority impact on the reinvestments of where these need to be made. We think that is critical to be successful.
▶ 0:28:59Mr. Adkinson: Lastly, in regards to a government standpoint, we use the words accountability, responsibility. They are not the same thing. They are entirely different things. As I said before, there are too many captains on the ship. There needs to be an unambiguous line of authority of how things are done. I believe this authority is capable of making decisions but we have to have the authority to do that. Finally, I will leave you with this.
▶ 0:29:26Mr. Adkinson: As a state that unfortunately has suffered hurricanes, and they will happen again, we don't seek perfection, we seek the effort of perfection in everything we do. Today is the anniversary of the D.C. tragedy, the crash where 67 individuals lost their lives. I will tell you that firstnet was there helping monitor those communications, making a difference, providing opportunities. That is when the system operates at its best. Thank you.
▶ 0:29:55Chair Fischer: Thank you, sheriff adkinson. Mr. agnew, you are recognize.
▶ 0:30:01Mr. Agnew: Chairman fisher, reagan member lujan, chairman cruz, ranking member cantwell, members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. My name is scott agnew and I serve as president of firstnet and public safety mobility at at&t. I'm responsible for ensuring at&t fulfills its federal obligation to deploy operate, and continuously evolve the firstnet network for america's first responders.
▶ 0:30:28Mr. Agnew: At the outset, let me be clear, at&t strongly supports reauthorization of the first responder network authority board, and we support so doing well in advance of the february 27 expiration. Before firstnet, public safety relied on fragmented radio systems and congested commercial networks that too often fail during disasters. Congress created firstnet to solve that problem. Today, firstnet is delivering that vision.
▶ 0:30:57Mr. Agnew: Firstnet represents one of the most successful public-private partnerships in modern infrastructure policy. In 2017, at&t was selected to build, operate is nationwide public safety network without taxpayer-funded. The network was completed on time and on budget. In march 2023 b been and continues to grow and improve.
▶ 0:31:21Mr. Agnew: Over the life of the 25-year contract, at&t expects to invest approximately $40 billion of its own capital to build and operate firstnet. Since 2017, we have built up a network to cover nearly 3 million square miles, making hundreds of thousands of square miles on average in commercial networks. This is a critical advantage for rural, tribal, and remote communities.
▶ 0:31:47Mr. Agnew: Today, more first responders trust firstnet to reliably communicate in -- than any other network. Importantly, firstnet provides always on priority and preemption across band 14, in all of at&t's 5g and lte spectrum. Whether it is planned, like major sporting events, or natural disasters, like flooding in texas or washington state, or wildfires in montana or new mexico, first responders can communicate and networks -- when he networks are congested.
▶ 0:32:18Mr. Agnew: In addition, the network will continue to expand, as designed by congress, the network will be based on direct feedback for public safety. Firstnet authority plans to invest nearly $8 billion over the next decade to improve the network.
▶ 0:32:34Mr. Agnew: This includes delivery of a physically separated 5g port, working with ast in midland, texas to provide public safety grade satellite connectivity and firstnet fusion, the first mission critical to medication platform that will enable unprecedented interoperability across agencies, carriers, and technologies.
▶ 0:32:57Mr. Agnew: The true measure of firstnet's performance during crisis, during hurricane celine and milton, firstnet supported more than to have 60 emergency requests across multiple states, restoring coverage and sustaining public safety communication in commercial networks. During the assassination attempt at the presidential campaign rally in butler, pennsylvania, firstnet worked as designed. While commercial networks experienced congestion, firstnet delivered uninterrupted service.
▶ 0:33:29Mr. Agnew: These are not isolated examples, they are the result of a network built specifically for, and by public safety. At&t's commitment to public safety is unmatched. We maintained a dedicated firstnet organization staffed by professionals with public safety and emergency experience. We operated 24/7 security operation center, focused on specifically firstnet traffic and be provided public safety with a dedicated fleet of deployable assets.
▶ 0:33:57Mr. Agnew: Congress made a bold and necessary decision when it created firstnet. This vision is now reality, and it is working. For these reasons, we strongly urge congress to reauthorize the firstnet authority and ensure the critical network continues to serve first responders for decades. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:34:18Chair Fischer: Thank you, Mr. agnew. Mr. davis, you are recognize.
▶ 0:34:22Mr. Davis: Thank you, chair fischer, reagan member lujan, thank you for the invitation. I'm the vice president of verizon frontline. I'm here representing more than 45,000 public safety agencies nationwide that trust our network to provide the connectivity that they need to save lives. For over three decades, verizon has delivered reliable, resilient, and secure public safety communications.
▶ 0:34:49Mr. Davis: This is a partnership earned, not through federal mandates, but through trust developed alongside those on the front lines. We honor that trust with a network built for resilience and our crisis response team led by former first responders. Verizon is leading the industry with innovations like nationwide 5g network placing. Our technology creates dedicated capacity reserved exclusively for public safety.
▶ 0:35:18Mr. Davis: Enhancing priority, enhancing preemption, and quality of service. It ensures first responders have a network access they need during extreme or routine missions. With verizon frontline, their mission is our purpose. And as our credo says, we run to a crisis. In authorizing the firstnet authority, we must recognize a fundamental shift since 2012. The old assumption that wireless broadband for public safety required a single government owned network has evolved.
▶ 0:35:49Mr. Davis: Today, when an agency puts out a contract for bid, they have three or more robust commercial options. This competition has forced us to innovate daily for public safety, driving the development of over 3000 deployable response assets and enabling enhanced priority and preemption services. No network, however, is immune to failure, which underscores a critical point. National and homeland security cannot rely on a single point of failure.
▶ 0:36:18Mr. Davis: True resiliency comes from redundancy and allowing first responders to choose communication solutions that meet their needs. Fostering a vibrant, competitive ecosystem with multiple network vendors is crucial so that if one network faces a challenge to my first responders can still communicate. My written testimony offers several specific thoughts on reauthorization but I want to highlight three that are essential for the future of public safety. First, congress must reinforce resiliency through competition.
▶ 0:36:48Mr. Davis: Ntia should encourage first responders to choose the service that best meets their needs, and over half today choose something other than firstnet. Congress must ensure firstnet authority does not undercut fair competition by portraying itself as the only solution. More can be achieved by promoting multi-network ecosystems, not by entrenching a monopoly. Second, the authority should be responsive to all public safety, not just the customer's one commercial carrier.
▶ 0:37:18Mr. Davis: The 2012 law mandates the firstnet authority money amounting to tens of billions of dollars has to be channeled back into the network for the sole benefit of firstnet subscribers. This made sense when congress invented a single dedicated network. It makes less sense today where firstnet rides on top of at&t's commercial network. If the authority uses federal funds to procure a physical infrastructure like towers in a rural area, access to those assets should be available to all public safety providers.
▶ 0:37:51Mr. Davis: And federal funds should support all first responders regardless of what commercial carrier they choose. Third, congress must strengthen oversight and transparency. The firstnet authority has faced persistent operational challenges as outlined in the 20 inspector general reports. The reports have identified missed milestones, overpricing, bad investments, network failures, and whistleblower retaliation.
▶ 0:38:20Mr. Davis: Reauthorization is an opportunity to expand and tia's oversight role. We also agree with the national sheriffs association and the mayor's association that the authority should be subject to regular congressional review. In conclusion, let's take stock of what has worked and what has become outdated. Local public safety officials deserve the right to choose a service that best meets their needs and should benefit from the firstnet program regardless of that choice.
▶ 0:38:48Mr. Davis: First responders collectively benefit from competition in a multinetwork ecosystem by giving them the most resilient and reliable communications. Ask yourselves like we ask ourselves, what is best for public safety professionals that put their lives on the line every day and require the best, most reliable communications possible? I look forward to your questions. .
▶ 0:39:11Chair Fischer: Thank you, Mr. davis. Mr. maier, you are recognized.
▶ 0:39:17Mr. Maier: Subcommittee. Thank you for this invitation to testify before you today. I'm grateful for the opportunity to talk about apco international. Apco international is the world's oldest and largest public safety communications association dedicated to public safety communications, starting in 1935 when the technology of the day was ham radio.
▶ 0:39:42Mr. Maier: I recall being a detroit area resident myself ,kop radio was one of the first broadcast stations out there that gave detroit police the opportunity to be on the lookout and calls for service, all while playing music between the calls because they had an intimate license for am radio. How we have evolved since then. We have more than 45,000 members across the united states, great britain, in canada, across the world.
▶ 0:40:11Mr. Maier: We operate public safety communications systems for law enforcement, fire, ems, and other public safety associations. And with more than three decades of public service behind me, I built a career focused on leadership and law enforcement and public safety. I was appointed the ceo and executive director of apco international in july of 2023. Prior to that, I served as cdo, managing public safety communications from the technical side.
▶ 0:40:38Mr. Maier: Prior to joining apco, being in law enforcement for 32 years, I was a captain with the open county michigan sheriff's office, ran the communications and on one system. That is apco project 25 radio system in oakland county, for 6000 subscribers. One of the things I found during that is, we found we needed public safety broadband.
▶ 0:41:04Mr. Maier: When we looked at public broadband many years ago, we learned there was an opportunity . When we looked at this day and 14 option, to look at what public safety can do going forward, and firstnet was created. I was part of the first that public safety advisory committee.
▶ 0:41:22Mr. Maier: I had the opportunity to work on the executive committee representing law enforcement and help guide the network's development and implementation for first responders nationwide apco is uniquely qualified to offer an informed perspective on firstnet's performance. In 2009, we were part of the public safety leadership that urged congress to establish this dedicated interoperable network. It had to serve the needs of public safety. That was it.
▶ 0:41:52Mr. Maier: Serve the critical needs of public safety in a manner that could happen nationwide. Very ambitious. You mentioned that in your opening statement. That is what it was, and it's a success. We are here today to say celebrate that success. We continue to serve a role through the public safety advisory committee as apco international. Our feed goes directly to the board, goes back to the firstnet authority to help build out the services, products that we need in public safety.
▶ 0:42:23Mr. Maier: Apco urges the swift reauthorization of firstnet because quite simply lives depend on it. Millions of public safety professionals including apco members depend on firstnet services, equipment, in support of their life-saving missions. We use it every day. I used it in the field but I was a captain with the oakley county sheriff's.
▶ 0:42:45Mr. Maier: I use it as a commander when I was on the communication side to backhaul next generation 911 technologies, over the top applications, push it from the call taker to the field units. Firstnet works. We always have to be the first in line when congested networks appear. Firstnet has done that. We continually look to the future and consider how we can make it even stronger. At the forefront of this is the central question, what would serve public safety?
▶ 0:43:16Mr. Maier: That is the only question we need to ask. Guided by this, we would urge you to continue that reinvestment in the firstnet network. Continued expansion is essential to ensure that the firstnet coverage reaches rural, remote, and underserved communities, where it doesn't exist today, it should exist tomorrow.
▶ 0:43:36Mr. Maier: The smallest of the small emergency communication centers, 911 centers, police, fire, ems, no responder left without this reliable connectivity. Maintaining and improving those network performance and reliability must remain a top priority. This includes ensuring that consistent coverage, minimizing downtime, continuing to provide this predictable high quality service occurs.
▶ 0:44:04Mr. Maier: We encourage that reinvestment in growth and we consider this when congress considers the adoption for performance metrics and optional benchmarks that address real-world public safety needs, do it on the behalf of latency, on coverage, ensuring we can get the products and services we need. I want to thank you for advancing this important conversation about firstnet reauthorization. I look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:44:28Chair Fischer: Thank you, Mr. maier. We will start with questions from members of this committee. Five minutes. Competition where feasible can be a safeguard for the public, and that include driving innovation and choice were government partners. Mr. maier, you have mentioned that firstnet has already spurred more competition such as for device cost. Do you believe there are additional areas to introduce competition within the firstnet system?
▶ 0:44:57Mr. Maier: I think what has happened is amazing. We had no one competing for public safety's attention when cellular networks were first formed. I carried a bag phone in my patrol car. That was quite cutting edge. I had 15 minutes a month to use so I couldn't go over. Competition became part of the firstnet package.
▶ 0:45:22Mr. Maier: When priority presumption was presented, we had that wireless priority system, all of those things that the federal government was providing, now available through firstnet.
▶ 0:45:30Chair Fischer: When you look at the future though what do you see as additional devices?
▶ 0:45:36Mr. Maier: In addition it will be the continued support for new devices and new technologies being merged into the networks. Competition that can lower cost. Competition that can increase the bandwidth and the spectrum we are using, as well as really coordinating, that are predicting outcomes in the field. Can against the three networks is terrific. Verizon frontline, thank you, t priority, that's terrific.
▶ 0:46:06Mr. Maier: Firstnet, terrific. Let's get them out into the field and in people's hands.
▶ 0:46:09Chair Fischer: Thank you. Sheriff adkinson, if there were more providers within the system, would there be network security trade-offs, if you have more providers in the system? How secure would it be?
▶ 0:46:24Mr. Adkinson: A couple things to consider when we talk about that. The reality is I don't want a situation like to any of the comments. When it becomes everybody's responsibility, it becomes nobody's a response ability. From an authority standpoint, there has to be clear lines of delineation on who we hold responsible for outcomes. That would be a challenge, bluntly. Having said that, every option should be reviewed if it is to the benefit of the people we serve.
▶ 0:46:55Mr. Adkinson: There is nothing that you would say 100% note to but I'm always very reticent when he talked about entering into a closed system, leaving the opportunity to point fingers. I think the responsibility of the authority is to hold people accountable. I think that is the sole purpose of it. I'm actually agnostic to the provider of it, that is not my job to decide, pick winners and losers. My job is to make sure the board's job is to make sure that we get the service to serve the people.
▶ 0:47:24Chair Fischer: Mr. agnew, earlier there was news that at&t decided to work with a new satellite partner to plug the gaps in the firstnet mobile network. I'm interested in the process that you used to select this partner. Did at&t seek proposals from other operators to provide the satellite component of the firstnet system?
▶ 0:47:50Mr. Agnew: Yes, senator.
▶ 0:47:52Chair Fischer: Is that information available to members of this committee?
▶ 0:47:56Mr. Agnew: No, that is a private rfp with the vendors. We evaluated that solution. We selected the best solution for public safety that would basically provide the highest level of connectivity, capacity, resiliency, and performance.
▶ 0:48:13Chair Fischer: Those are your selection criteria?
▶ 0:48:16Mr. Agnew: That's correct.
▶ 0:48:17Chair Fischer: Is the deal exclusive, or will you be considering other providers?
▶ 0:48:22Mr. Agnew: Currently the deal from a direct to cellular, satellite perspective is with ast. We currently use multiple solid providers as part of our deployable program, so specific to direct to satellite, it will be ast, senator.
▶ 0:48:38Chair Fischer: What is the length of the contract?
▶ 0:48:41Mr. Agnew: I would have to get back to you on the specific length, senator.
▶ 0:48:45Chair Fischer: Thank you. No care is immune to outages, Mr. agnew. We saw verizon have a major outage across their network. We saw a serious at&t outage last february that took down firstnet.
▶ 0:49:05Chair Fischer: Would you please a claim to the committee how at&t has implemented changes since that 20 incident, what that means for firstnet's reliability as we move forward?
▶ 0:49:17Mr. Agnew: Absolutely, thank you for the question, senator. First of all, we prioritized firstnet over other elements of our network, for public safety, in two hours. Subsequent to that significant oversight by the authority, by the oig, we are held accountable to the highest standard, the only network held accountable through oversight and after action reports.
▶ 0:49:44Mr. Agnew: We subsequently communicated exactly what went on, action plans to address, and to be addressed and hardened that network. We are obligated by the contract, obligated in oversight to continuously answer that call.
▶ 0:49:56Chair Fischer: Mr. davis, do you have anything to add? Representing verizon.
▶ 0:50:02Mr. Davis: What I would add, chairman fisher, competition is good for public safety. In the state of nebraska, we have 52% of market share, so over half of the public responders in nebraska are choosing verizon frontline for their carrier of choice. I would say the same around the network outages. This is why we are here.
▶ 0:50:28Mr. Davis: A single-threaded system is a huge concern for national security if we have all of our eggs in one basket.
▶ 0:50:33Chair Fischer: Thank you. Senator lujan, you are recognized.
▶ 0:50:37Sen. Lujan: Mr. agnew, the contract that at&t has around firstnet is with the federal government?
▶ 0:50:43Mr. Agnew: That's correct.
▶ 0:50:45Chair Fischer: Paid for with taxpayer dollars?
▶ 0:50:47Mr. Agnew: No, there are no taxpayer appropriated dollars, it's all self-contained, self funding through the sustainability payments made by at&t.
▶ 0:50:57Chair Fischer: Do you have to make your service available to government entities to review?
▶ 0:51:02Mr. Agnew: That's correct, we do. You are talking the contract --
▶ 0:51:07Chair Fischer: You just responded to chair fischer saying some of the information that was asked to share with this committee that it is proprietary. I don't understand how that's possible. You have to share information about how this helps the sheriffs and police officers and first responders, whether it is with a satellite company or is with the people that you buy coffee from. I will come back and you can respond in the record.
▶ 0:51:36Chair Fischer: I hope that we can get to a place when we talk about federal contracts, information is shared here. Like a chair says, this is an empty check. We need to make sure we are delivering the best service to everyone involved. Mr. maier, in your testimony, you state "firstnet must remain resilient, secure, consistently available so the public safety professionals can rely on it without interruption." I completely agree with that. The reality is that communication networks have outages.
▶ 0:52:05Chair Fischer: That is something both the chair and I have shared. We saw a recent nationwide outage of a's network in 2024, nationwide outage of at&t's network that also took firstnet down for several hours. A couple points of reference. My question is how do the public safety officials prepare for these expected and unexpected outages?
▶ 0:52:25Mr. Maier: One of the things that we do well is plan. As a first responder, one of my jobs is to make sure I have more than one way to get things done, more than one tool in the toolbox. One of the things we have seen is the emergence of land mobile radio, land mobile radios, with these push to talk solutions over the air. Lte has expanded the capability of our systems. That is a convergence that is still occurring today.
▶ 0:52:53Mr. Maier: Secondly, we look at some of the public safety uhf, vhf systems out there working on these hive incapacities, working with those folks that are really experts at radio. Those are backups to lte also. We use data systems, public safety communication systems that are close networks, sharing logical or diverse paths of physical. But those backups are only backups as they continue to be used.
▶ 0:53:24Mr. Maier: Those are redundancies. It should flow seamlessly. My device right here, this phone can go between wi-fi and the commercial radio system seamlessly. I am talking on a call, I don't even know it. That is what public safety systems are designed to do, and when they fall back, they fail over. Building on that, we need to invest in better resiliency. The runtimes of these generators needs batteries at these remote sites. They lose power during a crisis. How long do they run?
▶ 0:53:55Mr. Maier: Those are things that we need to know. Can they step up when these surges happen, large volumes of people, many first responders on scene. Can the capacity be carried? Those are things that we prepare for but have an means of communication. We are using service as a software, taken from the cloud, we are using satellite. We've been doing it for 30 years. Those are things that we plan and prepare for so when these outages happen, we are ready to communicate.
▶ 0:54:24Mr. Maier: If it has to go back to turning a light on in the front of the substation so that when we are driving by you have a call for service, we will do that. That is how it used to work. The best part of your question is about reliability and resiliency and planning. Public safety has direct input into the firstnet network. They have direct input through the public safety advisory committee, the board, back to firstnet on how those things are done. We are part of that planning process.
▶ 0:54:51Sen. Lujan: Appreciate that, Mr. maier. I have other questions for the witnesses, I will submit them into the record. I will give you time to respond to them. Mr. maier, you hold up your phone there. There is some law enforcement that has an agreement with at&t, agreement with verizon, agreement with three agreement with th t-mobile, and they have three phones in their car, trying to figure out who they should call.
▶ 0:55:19Sen. Lujan: When somebody picks up the phone, they want somebody to answer. They don't have time to keep going through all those devices as well. All of you testifying today have acknowledge the multiple reports from the commerce department's office of the inspector general. Serious reports about firstnet's's authority over site and its contract with at&t including failing to independently verify coverage claims, buildout requirements, on and on. Mr. maier, do you believe congress needs to strengthen firstnet's oversight framework, and if so, any specific guardrails?
▶ 0:55:52Sen. Lujan: As my time expires, maybe I will ask you to submit that into the record. I want to be respectful of my colleagues time as well. I have others that I will submit into the record. If you being here. >> we believe oversight is a future of the program, not a flaw.
▶ 0:56:07Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator lujan. We may have time later for follow-up round to follow-up round two. Senator moreno, you are recognized.
▶ 0:56:20Sen. Moreno: Mr. maier, in ohio, the state sent -- spent a lot of resources to build what is called the marks network, a land mobile radio fumigation system. That does not have interoperability and seamless transition with firstnet. Explain how you see that is a problem.
▶ 0:56:43Mr. Maier: One of the challenges we have seen with over-the-top applications, push to talk interfaces, they are not based on commonly accepted standards because they are unique to the manufacturer, radio, subsystems. But we know they can be. They can do the workarounds. The mark system is terrific at land mobile radio, no question. In oakland county, michigan, we had a radio before that. We had motorola.
▶ 0:57:13Mr. Maier: We were able to use these devices to connect them to push to talk solutions over the air. Take advantage of lte. But it was unique, expensive, and not something everybody can do. Those are things I would defer to the firstnet team on how they see that. I know they have a product they are offering. I have seen the information on it. It looks like it has a great opportunity to take all of those divergent things and put them into an interoperable cloud to share information. I would have to defer to them on this.
▶ 0:57:43Sen. Moreno: My point in asking you first on that, it's good to be important for first responders. Obviously, jumping to you, Mr. agnew -- Mr. adkinson, what is at&t doing about integrating the marks network into firstnet? I'm sorry, Mr. agnew.
▶ 0:58:02Mr. Agnew: Thank you for the question. We are very familiar with your network. Very strong land mobile network. We are actually in the process, as I mentioned in my remarks, launching a product called firstnet fusion. This is taking interoperability to the next level. The foundation of the networks, interoperable between commercial networks and next phase, is making it easier, more affordable, and scalable for land network radio networks.
▶ 0:58:34Mr. Agnew: Fusion will transform public safety interoperability because it will not matter the network, will not matter the carrier, will not matter the technology. We are actually working with your state to demonstrate how we are going to make that a reality. We are going to take the interoperability, as Mr. maier was saying, and put it in the cloud. That makes it more affordable and easier to manage.
▶ 0:58:58Mr. Agnew: You have disasters, and you have mutual aid,, as you well know in the state of ohio, where you have multiple agencies converging today, they are configuring radios. It could take hours, days to get the communication set up. You need to be able to do it in seconds.
▶ 0:59:17That Sen. Moreno: Is the commitment.
▶ 0:59:18Sen. Moreno: What would be the timeline for that to happen?
▶ 0:59:21Mr. Agnew: It is launching in the first half of this year. As I mentioned, we are having discussions with your leadership.
▶ 0:59:28Sen. Moreno: Are you confident by this time next year we should have that fully integrated as the way Mr. maier described it?
▶ 0:59:35Mr. Agnew: I'm confident that technology will be available, confident it will be ready. We will be working with a mark system because there is some implementations we need to make on their side but I'm confident.
▶ 0:59:46Sen. Moreno: That is good news for ohio. Taking that question from senator lujan where he asked about taxpayer dollars, says it doesn't fund it. Technically that is not 100% accurate. Didn't the federal government put $6.5 billion into the program?
▶ 1:00:01Mr. Agnew: Thank you for give me the chance to clarify. There was spectrum auction proceeds that initially funded the program and help with the buildup. Subsequent to that, sustainability payments are made by at&t in the amount of $8 million, and that is used to fund the authority and make the necessary public safety investments. Let me be clear on what the investments are. They are specific to firstnet, specific to the firstnet elements. They are not for at&t to run their network.
▶ 1:00:32Mr. Agnew: At&t operates a complete network, our network, as well as the firstnet network, which has a complete, dedicated core that needs to be operated.
▶ 1:00:40Sen. Moreno: I think senator lujan was pointing out that she can speak for himself -- there is a significant amount of taxpayer money that went into this. Monthly subscriptions are with local governments, correct? So that is taxpayer money. That was the point being made. I wanted to give you a chance to clarify that because this is definitely taxpayer money. When we are spending taxpayer money, there is a different standard for disclosure.
▶ 1:01:10Sen. Moreno: You have private contracts for anything that you do, but once you are asking the taxpayer to fork over money and pay to your private company, it is our responsibility on disclosure. I want to make certain that we clarify that for the record. I appreciate that and my time is up.
▶ 1:01:26Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator moreno. Senator hickenlooper, you are recognized.
▶ 1:01:34Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you, madam chair. Thank you all for being here but also your public service. Let me start with Mr. adkinson. As you know well, boulder, colorado is home to many federal labs that improve our communication service, tilde communication sciences, its, public safety communication research lab at the national institute of science and technology campus at boulder, and then the firstnet authorities lab.
▶ 1:02:05Sen. Hickenlooper: The firstnet lab, science and engineers do the r&d and perform a whole variety of tests to ensure the public technologies, things like drones and mobile towers are seamlessly integrated across the network.
▶ 1:02:27Sen. Hickenlooper: This research, I guess cutting is re church, is possible because of the state-of-the-art facilities and equipment, and also an especially from the highly trained workforce that is there. As board chair, Mr. adkinson, how is firstnet authority of recruiting and retaining the best engineers, the best scientists at the boulder lab, to make sure that our public safety communications network performs as intended?
▶ 1:02:56Mr. Adkinson: Thank you, senator. Obviously, you are talking about some of the most typical and capable communication professionals there are. At the end of the day, we reinvest back into our staff because, similarly to our vendor, at&t, we understand that to move to the next level, whether that is z axis, singularity between lmr, it is critical to have the best and brightest.
▶ 1:03:26Mr. Adkinson: As far as how those folks are retained and hired, I have to defer that to ntia. That is more their area of operation. I have to tell you there is quite a bit of discussion among the board -- I will segregate that -- among the board, to say are we being competitive in hiring the best and brightest? That is what it takes to drive this. From a taxpayer standpoint, to senator moreno's point earlier, these are still public funds, the public's trust.
▶ 1:03:59Mr. Adkinson: The board takes that very seriously, that part of this technology at that lab is to make sure we are getting the best technology from our vendor as well. I think it's an opportunity to maintain the best and brightest. That maybe something from a salary or recruitment standpoint, have to go back to ntia on that, but I concur that is what we need.
▶ 1:04:20Sen. Hickenlooper: As the network modernizes its towers and evercore to improve service to first responders, what role do you see for firstnet labs, what is that role going to play as this modernization goes forward?
▶ 1:04:34Mr. Adkinson: Moore's law is roughly 18 months on obsolescence, the way things are changing now. I think the level be at the cutting edge of determining what is capable and what we are envisioning. Even six and seven years ago, ai was not a part of this discussion. It will be a part of the discussion going forward. Both from a national security standpoint as well as service provider. We have not talked about it but there is the internet of things.
▶ 1:05:02Mr. Adkinson: Sometimes when we talk about all of these different lines of service, people forget that it also includes video cameras, things like body cameras. I saw a board member who is also a doctor, able to perform medical assistance from 800 miles away. That is what is coming.
▶ 1:05:21Sen. Hickenlooper: Absolutely. Let me switch over to Mr. agnew, Mr. davis. Whether someone is hiking in the mountain ranges of telluride, or they are watching a hockey or basketball game in ball arena in downtown denver, colorado first responders are almost always on the front lines of keeping our citizens safe.
▶ 1:05:52Sen. Hickenlooper: In public safety emergencies, reliable wireless can occasion can mean the difference between lives saved and tragedy striking a community. That is why transparency, I think, and how can occasion networks are managed and upgraded are so essential. Mr. agnew, Mr.
▶ 1:06:10Sen. Hickenlooper: Davis, in delivering communication service to public safety leaders, how would you describe your process for demonstrating where your network coverage isdensified, where it really needs upgrades, geo-located upgrades?
▶ 1:06:33Mr. Agnew: Senator, thank you for the question. Firstnet has unprecedented transparency. Thank you, governor at the time, for opting in. We provide estate plan porters to demonstrate the exact build over the course of the initial six years. We also have provided what is called a network status tool that public safety can look at real time for existing coverages.
▶ 1:06:58Mr. Agnew: In addition, through outreach by the firstnet authority, at&t network coverage workshops, we show the public safety community -- in colorado, it happened on september 25. Where the coverage has been built and where it is going. Also during that time, public safety because to identify the areas where they built what we call public safety specific sites. These are not sites that are economically viable for at&t. These are public safety needs.
▶ 1:07:27Mr. Agnew: As part of the $8 billion reinvestment that firstnet is making over the next 10 years, that is where those sites will come from. That is why firstnet has nearly 3 million miles of square coverage and 200,000 more. Just in the opt in process alone, commenting on colorado, 31 specific sites that were built based off of direct feedback from public safety, not corporate at&t.
▶ 1:07:51Sen. Hickenlooper: Good to know that.
▶ 1:07:54Mr. Davis: Great question, senator. I spent a lot of time in those mountains in telluride, so I know the challenges. Some of the things we do, we have a process around transparency, capturing customer feedback. We do quarterly round tables public safety professionals. In our great state, we have nearly 50% of the market share, nearly 50% of the first responders using something other than firstnet. It's important to hear that feedback and what is working, not working.
▶ 1:08:22Mr. Davis: We also have a wireless network performance tool that shows coverage where you can request physical assets if you need the pluggable assets. We also work very closely with all the states on the coverage. This is why it's so important that competition and innovation is important. If firstnet authority funds a tower in rural san juan county, all public safety provider should be able to take advantage of that tower, not just one commercial carrier.
▶ 1:08:48Sen. Hickenlooper: Fair enough. Thank you. I yield back.
▶ 1:08:53Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator hickenlooper. Senator budd, you are recognized.
▶ 1:08:59Sen. Budd: Thank you for holding this hearing, for being a part of this panel. 15 months ago, hurricane helene in western north carolina, some at the table here, some in the audience that I reached out to in the early days, thank you for your responsiveness. I know there are lessons learned and we will ask about that in a moment. We remember how significantly disrupted connectivity was, including infrastructure, strained networks, 911 call centers.
▶ 1:09:28Sen. Budd: I was impressed with the efforts of everyone involved including firstnet, verizon, other carriers, especially our first responders. Sheriff, thank you for being here, thanks to those in uniform today, not just what you do in improving personal bond or communications but with law enforcement as well.
▶ 1:09:47Sen. Budd: Sheriff, your testimony spoke to have firstnet's 50-member board and the public safety member advisory committee has kept first responders like yourself deeply involved in the investment and build decisions of firstnet. Firstnet's fusion seemed like a good example of prioritizing technological upgrades to keep pace with commercial innovation.
▶ 1:10:12Sen. Budd: Are there areas that firstnet preauthorization need to look at to continue to make enhancements to make sure a nation microsoft partner network is keeping pace and giving responders the best tools they need to be successful?
▶ 1:10:25Mr. Adkinson: Thank you, senator. I think a couple things are pertinent in this discussion, which is again the rate of technology, the way things are changing. Products like fusion give us the opportunity to get what was the ultimate goal here which is interoperability on demand. I made a joke earlier today, and I will stand by it. Sometimes words have multiple meanings.
▶ 1:10:51Mr. Adkinson: My children love "the princess bride." sometimes people say interoperability and I say I don't think the word means what you think it is. We can get different answers. From a first responder standpoint, a product like fusion, once it is built out, the future of things like that, can result in instantaneous connection between multiple modalities. That is the goal.
▶ 1:11:15Mr. Adkinson: When you are asking what we should be investing in as well as expanding coverage, making it better, deeper coverage, products that allow that instantaneous change, this leveraging of technology is the things that I think the firstnet authority board should be pushing toward. I don't think you'll hear anyone argue against that. That is the driving future.
▶ 1:11:36Sen. Budd: Thank you for that. Mr. agnew, your testimony talked about lessons learned during hurricane helene and her kate middleton. Could you say what some of those lessons were? I know you shared earlier but anything you want to add as far as lessons learned. How do those lessons inform at&t's work with the firstnet authority in determining network investments?
▶ 1:11:58Mr. Agnew: Thank you for the question. Lessons learned. Massive event, multiple states, over 260 requests. As we do a hot wash, public safety does after an event, there were almost 89 request that came in within the first 24 hours. So that was a lot to triage. We determined we need to multiple triage team to speed that up, so we subsequently change that.
▶ 1:12:27Mr. Agnew: Additionally, we realize that we needed more smaller assets to be able to manage the type of event, respond quickly, so we made the subsequent investment. The other thing that we saw was that public safety supported the event. They have their own deployables they purchased. Your state, tennessee, federal agencies came to the table for mutual aid. We have to put out, and we have subsequently done that, more affordable solutions, so public safety can put their own coverage out there as well.
▶ 1:12:58Mr. Agnew: How we work with the authority, we talk about that a lot. We talk about what investments we made. We heard from the last house committee from north carolina discussing that resilience and reliability, more deployables. We are in discussions with the authority now to make those investments for the deployable program.
▶ 1:13:19Sen. Budd: Thank you very much. I think most of those 89 requests were from me. I appreciate your patience. Similar question, Mr. davis. What takeaways from his lean did the front line have to inform future investments? That the fact that frontline was available as an alternative first on a network improve outcomes?
▶ 1:13:40Mr. Davis: Important question and great to see you at our event and rally a few months ago. The team really appreciated it. I will tell you, I was boots on the ground 72 hours after helene hit. Like my colleagues at at&t, we had hundreds of requests coming in from seven states. I spent time in the eocs, spent time with law enforcement who were pulling bodies out of the mud, and did not have any network capabilities.
▶ 1:14:09Mr. Davis: While we were trying to facilitate grown mission to provide these flying towers in literally the middle of nowhere. Working with the army corps of engineers to get radio equipment on the mountain because it was completely wiped away. The lessons learned was around communications and partnerships and how important it is to have that streamlined communication and it really is. We are so proud to serve on the primary side more than 52% of your constituents, senator.
▶ 1:14:40Mr. Davis: The other thing we have learned is how important it is to do what you heard here with the hot wash. We did one internally on how we could do better but also with more local agencies as well so we maintain continuity and communication throughout and god forbid there is another storm but if there is one like a lean we will be ready and more prepared than ever. >> senator klobuchar.
▶ 1:15:10Sen. Klobuchar: We have had a lot of tragedies in my state this year but when I did not discuss earlier was the murder of melissa hortman and her husband. It is relevant because there was a manhunt like no other in our state that went on for days and the first responders were able to rely on firstnet to communicate.
▶ 1:15:35Sen. Klobuchar: They did find the now defendant and he was not able to kill anyone else, despite shooting another legislator and his wife 15 times and going to several other houses. What metrics do you believe firstnet should rely on to evaluate network performance and reliability? And answer that.
▶ 1:16:01Sen. Klobuchar: >> I would like to say thank you for your support for next generation. Operation performance under stress is what we are talking about. Safety has to have the tools they need during a crisis. Latency. When we are talking about voice, video delays, are the packets moving through to get the job done? We use uplink in the field. First responders use uplink more than they do downlink.
▶ 1:16:31Sen. Klobuchar: They are sending data back. We look at performance where they say there is coverage is not actually performing, priority activation times. Those are important. Are they working? We will look at quality of service and times when these things move forward. I have mentioned power backups. Are these batteries, generators? And think about cybersecurity.
▶ 1:17:02Sen. Klobuchar: Are we doing everything we can to keep the network safe? Are we introducing new vectors?
▶ 1:17:08Sen. Klobuchar: I co-chair the 911 caucus and we have introduced legislation to update some of these outdated centers and the related technology and the fact everyone is using text messages this is all -- when I was the da county attorney for biggest county, not in my county but another one, there was a horrible shooting of a police officer and that was when we realized the responders to the scene tracking down the killer
▶ 1:17:40Sen. Klobuchar: Had 10 different radio -- that is what made our state get on the same network and we have greatly improved things but now we are in this next moment where we have to look at the new technology and get there. In your testimony, you said firstnet should provide network coverage to even the smallest of the small emergency community centers. Communication centers. Do you agree that updating our 911 centers is critical?
▶ 1:18:11Mr. Maier: It is.
▶ 1:18:14Sen. Klobuchar: Can you talk about first responders, how important it is for them to have this kind of information?
▶ 1:18:20Mr. Davis: Information --
▶ 1:18:23Mr. Maier: Information is sectional -- situational awareness protects responders and callers. We need that information into 911 centers, including answering calls, getting information, getting all that, but then what do we do with that? How do we share it? Having networks and technologies interfacing gets the job done.
▶ 1:18:48Sen. Klobuchar: Do you want to talk about the oral issue and broadband recently getting some of that? It has been announced it is going to go out and talk about what steps at&t does to ensure that rural communities are covered under the firstnet network.
▶ 1:19:08Mr. Agnew: As part of the opt in process, each state had to select firstnet. They could have chosen to build their own network. Each state and territory chose. As part of the process, 1200 sites were built, not based off of at&t selecting. It was based off public safety. So that further expanded the network.
▶ 1:19:35Mr. Agnew: Also, as part of the obligation, 15% of the network had to be built with partners so states like nebraska and other rural states received more than 2000 locations. Tribal lands grew by 66 percent in coverage. There are tribes in this nation that are making phone calls for the first time.
▶ 1:20:00Mr. Agnew: With the addition of the investment, it has proven an additional 137 sites based off of public safety feedback, states like california, like kentucky, like alaska and hawaii, all states being addressed based on feedback. So that is what is making a difference. It is not a carrier building a network.
▶ 1:20:25Mr. Agnew: The carrier is building the network as the contractor, but it is public safety decisions controlled by sheriff adkinson, his board, and the firstnet authority.
▶ 1:20:35Sen. Klobuchar: Sheriff, do you want to add anything?
▶ 1:20:39Sheriff Adkinson: I can be part of the conversation because it is not based on the commercial market. It is based on the people we serve. I'm not going to suggest it is perfect. It is getting there. By making these investments in rural and tribal areas, this is at the heart of what we should be about, of what firstnet is about and all citizens are entitled to these communications.
▶ 1:21:04Sen. Klobuchar: Because the market probably would not dictate where they break down and they are in the middle of nowhere. That happens often but I am not going to go on. Thank you and thank you to you as well.
▶ 1:21:27Chair Fischer: The commerce department inspector general previously found gaps in the board oversight and performance metrics. Firstnet's initial response challenged the ig findings, asserting they were working goals and not quantifiable metrics.
▶ 1:21:51Chair Fischer: What new performance standards or monitoring methods has the board approved so that we can ensure compliance with contract terms?
▶ 1:22:05Sheriff Adkinson: There are six new board members. We went back through these and there are three permanent members that provide oversight to the board, who are also permanent members.
▶ 1:22:24Sheriff Adkinson: We as a board started saying what performance measures matter, what performance measures and started a working group to do that to make sure those things are being -- monitor those things that matter. We start asking tough questions. I want to talk about ig. If you want to have accountability, you have to have authority.
▶ 1:22:51Sheriff Adkinson: I'm not a fan of not being able to hold the people I give directions to accountable because otherwise I am simply suggesting. I do not like suggesting. I think it was a responsibility as taxpayer authority and money come in text for -- taxpayer funds, that we as a board should be able to hold the executive director as appropriate. There has to be accountability.
▶ 1:23:21Chair Fischer: You mentioned in your opening comments about changes and reauthorized net. Can you wrap it up here with one more question -- as we wait to see if other senators are coming -- can you pick those points for us?
▶ 1:23:46Sheriff Adkinson: I want to make sure I'm answering your questions correctly, but absolutely appear in first and foremost, I think there should be an expansion of the public safety seats on the board so we do not lose the direction of what this should be about, looking after the interest of public safety and making sure that does not become a secondary interest. The staggering of terms.
▶ 1:24:10Sheriff Adkinson: So that we do not end up in a situation where we have six new board members plus two current vacancies and I am just acting chair at this point. Those are the things we need the opportunity to make those corrections as appropriate and that helps for government. Three is 2 -- too many captains on the ship. We have to have the ability to make decisions.
▶ 1:24:39Sheriff Adkinson: If you are going to asked me to be accountable, I need the authority to do that. There are clear things I think we can go back that I can give you examples of where that was challenging.
▶ 1:24:51Sen. Klobuchar: You look at the current statute. Do you think the performance benchmarks and connections and targets are being met?
▶ 1:25:04Sheriff Adkinson: There should be more outlined and defined performance measures. That is the best interest of people we serve and at&t. Nobody loses with us being more accountable. It is the right thing to do.
▶ 1:25:21Sen. Klobuchar: Senator lujan --
▶ 1:25:23Chair Fischer: Senator lujan.
▶ 1:25:26Sen. Lujan: Mr. agnew, what is firstnet's presence in rural areas of new mexico and is coverage there sufficient?
▶ 1:25:38Mr. Agnew: We need continued buildout. While new mexico has received build out there is more work to be done and there are a couple things being done. I mentioned coverage workshops where new site will be based on first responders. We take -- make available deployable's, making a highly affordable so they can deploy coverage where does not exist.
▶ 1:26:04Mr. Agnew: As I mentioned, the partnership with ast will fill up much of the white space in nebraska. And -- new mexico. That is where we will provide an approach to deliver connectivity .
▶ 1:26:22Sen. Lujan: If you do not have the percentage of the state that is covered, you can respond to that in writing. New mexico is one of the first states -- you are one of the early adopters. I can tell you where I drive where phones do not work. I have got them all.
▶ 1:26:47Sen. Lujan: And when I talked to local law enforcement agencies, there is a fire chief that lives in a canyon. Once you get past a certain mile marker, you cannot find him.
▶ 1:27:06Sen. Lujan: This is in a mountainous area where a little fire kills people and devastates homes so I'm interested here, with that being said, I'm happy to work with a chair to look at the holes that exist across america in rural communities so we can get a better understanding of measuring success. Same question to you.
▶ 1:27:32Mr. Agnew: We were proud to support 61% of first responders in new mexico. I have a home in northern new mexico. Some of the things we are doing -- we are doing similar things and what is important to understand, there is no separate network. There is no separate commercial. There is one commercial carrier that is providing the services for public safety. I think that is important. That is why we are here.
▶ 1:28:02Mr. Agnew: If firstnet is getting funding, we are looking at an additional $15 billion over the next 25 years of the term and they will put a tower in that canyon. That tower should be able to cover all the public safety providers, not just at&t customers but -- because what we have seen in national outages in recent times is when there is at&t outage, there is no separate network and everything is riding on at&t's commercial
▶ 1:28:36Mr. Agnew: Network. That is a good reminder for us that we have to work together and why it is important we have competition in the marketplace.
▶ 1:28:44Sen. Lujan: Does technology exist today where first responder buys a phone, communication device, can they ride all three networks with subscriptions? Or do they have to buy a phone from each carrier?
▶ 1:29:00Mr. Agnew: Today, the technology does exist for phones to use multiple sim cards from carriers.
▶ 1:29:12Sen. Lujan: Do they have to change a sim card out?
▶ 1:29:14Mr. Agnew: There are two options. The rotors just work. Sim cards, there is a configuration but it is simple to do and standard from a public safety perspective to have multiples within a specific device.
▶ 1:29:27Sen. Lujan: I see several heads in the room nodding, either against me or with Mr. agnew here. Is this widely known? Are we seeing agencies across the country -- when I'm home and talking to folks, they are rolling with 3, 4 phones. Is this widely known? It sounds like it will be a savings.
▶ 1:29:50Sheriff Adkinson: I have three phones. Pragmatically, it is widely known. It is not uncommon for agencies, when you hear these folks talking about the number of agencies -- maybe my math is not that good, but a limited number of public safety agencies in this country. Many organizations use multiple lines based on what is their need. You will never hear the authority to tell somebody to go away from a service if we are not able to provide it yet.
▶ 1:30:23Sheriff Adkinson: Do not let perfect be the enemy of better. We are getting there, but we are not going to endanger somebody's life by telling you to drop your service if we are not providing adequate service yet. The goal is to get to providing adequate service, but it is not uncommon for people to use multiple lines.
▶ 1:30:39Sen. Lujan: My time has expired, so please respond. A follow-up I have is, if you could respond, if law enforcement knows that there is a hole somewhere and have a description to either of you, what do they do to report to you all if there is a hole?
▶ 1:31:03Sen. Lujan: If either constituent that goes and buys a phone based on what you presented and the phone don't work, what do they need to do to respond to the company to say the maps that I have coverage here and I do not have coverage, you need to fix this? If you all can respond to that?
▶ 1:31:24Mr. Agnew: Direct relationships between the firstnet consultants and public safety agencies -- that there is a direct relationship there also with the authority and those workshops to document it and we provide updates. We are accountable.
▶ 1:31:39Mr. Agnew: We are bound by contract to provide that buildout plans so it is full awareness and if there is any public safety officials in your state that on -- that are not aware of that, please let them know it is available.
▶ 1:31:54Sen. Lujan: I reminded that the fcc -- I use at a time or two. I do not know if something equivalent exists or still exists. That is what I'm looking at trying to help.
▶ 1:32:11Chair Fischer: I am with you on that. I was going to try to follow up on that before I recognized senator sullivan. On the maps that are available to the public at large, I would ask each of you, are they worth anything? Go ahead, sheriff.
▶ 1:32:31Sheriff Adkinson: It will show you the overall, but how good the coverage is is questionable. That is always something that could be improved. I am a trust but verify individual when it comes to that.
▶ 1:32:49Mr. Agnew: It provides directional coverage. We provide different layers that show in building, outdoor, more specificity before a first responder comes on so there is more.
▶ 1:33:02Chair Fischer: So firstnet is more reliable than commercial service. Thank you.
▶ 1:33:09Mr. Davis: The answer is yes, but there is more work to do.
▶ 1:33:16Mr. Maier: We call that drive testing in the fields. You check in you verify. I have a phone here that has two sims in it, one on one carrier and one on another. If I could put three on it, I would use all three. >> I think it is important -- that is why we are here. There will be $15 billion going to the firstnet authority over the next 20 five years.
▶ 1:33:43Mr. Maier: There is a lot of rural departments that cannot afford two sims. It would be great if that money went back to the public safety agencies instead of going to one commercial provider to build out their network.
▶ 1:33:57Chair Fischer: I think senator lujan and I should do a road trip to new mexico and then he comes to nebraska and we will do nebraska and include alaska in the mix as we travel are very sparsely populated areas of the state and tell you exactly where we can do calls. Senator sullivan, you are recognized.
▶ 1:34:21Sen. Sullivan: You are always welcome to alaska. I want to thank the witnesses. Really important topic. I want to thank the chair and ranking member for holding the hearing. I want to talk about lessons learned on the issues of really remote areas in my state. The ranking member and chair's state. And what we learned from the maui wildfires.
▶ 1:34:52Sen. Sullivan: I think there were a lot of lessons learned. My state, the great state of alaska, has benefited from meaningful firstnet investments. And strong response efforts by at&t and response operations groups, but I think the maui wildfires show plans and assets must be demonstrably ready before a disaster occurs, especially in remote, challenging regions of the country and I would like all the
▶ 1:35:27Sen. Sullivan: Witnesses on this. For remote states -- particularly remote states like mine, the public safety communications disaster recovery plans must be proven through exercises and logistics testing, not just written commitments.
▶ 1:35:48Sen. Sullivan: Because I think what happened in maui is all these great written commitments but there was nothing that was hawaii specific in the protocols. I am now looking at the oig report that came out in the firstnet authority approved at&t's plan just two months before the maui wildfires and yet that plan failed miserably.
▶ 1:36:21Sen. Sullivan: So can I get everybody's view on that? Really important issue. Do not just have a written plan. You have to go test it. Especially in a place like my state, very remote, very rugged. What is the view on -- from all the witnesses -- what can we -- you know. That was a horrible tragedy in maui. What is the silver lining on lessons learned from that?
▶ 1:36:53Sen. Sullivan: The oig report certainly has some. I will leave it up to all four of you.
▶ 1:36:57Mr. Agnew: It was a tragedy and let me start by saying oversight is good for the program. It drives continued growth and innovation. So we meet public safety needs. Firstnet is the only provider with this healthy oversight and it is contractually bound to deliver for public safety. Let's talk about learnings. I have been to your state. I have performed public safety exercises in alaska working with public safety.
▶ 1:37:26Sen. Sullivan: Those are the big, populated areas. A typhoon smashed into western alaska a few months ago in these remote villages on the western part of our state and that -- I want you to be doing exercises in the most remote parts of america that have been severely impacted by extreme weather.
▶ 1:37:55Mr. Agnew: You made a commentary -- you are so far from the mainland so you have to be self-sufficient so business continuity and disaster recovery plans -- you have to be able to self sustain. We take the oig work seriously. It is that roadmap for improvement. Let's focus on maui. Maui had a device on site, deployed within 24 hours. We sent 30 devices subsequently.
▶ 1:38:29Mr. Agnew: He needs to withstand now so what we have done is we have tripled the amount of assets on each of the islands so now we can respond much faster. We have coordinated with national guard and -- to receive priority so if deployable need to move between the mountains -- from an alaska perspective, that learning to not just stop in hawaii.
▶ 1:38:59Mr. Agnew: It is the U.S. virgin islands, alaska, where we have to operate differently and deploy more assets so we have doubled the assets in alaska and continued. To continue to show what we are doing there but to enter -- answer your question directly, yes. That is why we have a dedicated team with a specific responsibility to coordinate with your state.
▶ 1:39:28Mr. Agnew: This is alaska, hawaii, north carolina, new mexico, nebraska. We are required to coordinate those efforts.
▶ 1:39:37Sen. Sullivan: That is a good answer an important question.
▶ 1:39:42Mr. Agnew: The tragedy in maui was devastating and that is why we are here and why the reliance on single network providers is a risk to public safety and something we cannot afford peer and from our perspective, the true service of last resort is redundancy's own disaster plans must be tested physically, not just contractually. Our contract is with our network and our customers, not a federal mandate. Public safety agencies need access to multiple networks.
▶ 1:40:14Mr. Agnew: If the primary network fails, due to wildfire or fiber cut or cyberattack, alaska's first responders need to be able to switch to another carrier.
▶ 1:40:23Sen. Sullivan: My state, we get a lot of natural disasters, earthquakes, wildfires, you name it. So it is really important. Any other thoughts on this? >> networks, when they are overloaded, it is a problem. First responders have to communicate with each other and the public and we believe that we plan with redundancies and have multiple ways to communicate.
▶ 1:40:56Sen. Sullivan: These may be high frequency radios, multiple carriers. A mix of technologies that is field-tested. We talked about scenarios. Scenarios exist today, but how do they work in the field? Allow first responders to work in the fields to find those gaps and make corrections and you will have more successful outcomes.
▶ 1:41:20Sheriff Adkinson: A state of florida handles his fair share of natural disasters as well and one of the things we know and have learned that I think the authority as a board is pushing for is the concept of critical complement, which is what needs to be done after these after action reports. Predictable is preventable. Is it a practical application of resources where it is at? We can have all the resources in the world but if they are only in D.C.
▶ 1:41:49Sheriff Adkinson: They are not doing any good. What we have learned as we step up these reports is there has to be a critical complement for all areas of the country. I'm not going to tell you it is perfect. That is part and parcel of learning from these natural disasters.
▶ 1:42:07Sen. Sullivan: Thank you.
▶ 1:42:09Chair Fischer: Thank you to all our witnesses for their testimony here today. Senator lujan, thank you. I look forward to working with you and all our colleagues on this important issue as we look forward to the reauthorization of firstnet. Senators will have until the close of business on february 4 to submit questions for the record. Witnesses will have until the close of business on february 18 to respond to those questions.
▶ 1:42:40Chair Fischer: This concludes today's hearing. With that, the committee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]