▶ 0:10:36Chair Cassidy: Please come to order. The national institutes of health funds more than 50,000 biomedical research projects a year, more than any other institution in the world. Nih is careful to say it is a public institution but it's hard for me to imagine it is not more than any institution.
▶ 0:11:00Chair Cassidy: These investments drive life-saving advancements addressing chronic disease, curing cancers and other diseases affecting americans and people worldwide. I'm a physician who treated patients in my medical practice for over 25 years. I've seen the power of nih-driven innovation to save lives. I've seen the tragedy when a patient suffers and dies from a disease for which there is no treatment.
▶ 0:11:28Chair Cassidy: Everybody in this room has seen that tragedy and we don't wish to see more of it. For decades republicans and democrats supported the nih mission. Just about every 10 years congress considers nih legislation. In 2006 we passed the nih reform act empowering the director to advance science through the common fund and better oversee all 27 institutes and centers.
▶ 0:11:55Chair Cassidy: In 2016 we passed the 21st century cares act, historic legislation accelerating large-scale research bringing treatment and cures to americans. If my math is right, it has been 10, 10, now it is 10 again. It is now 2020 six. Once more we are on schedule to strengthen nih and american leadership in biomedical research.
▶ 0:12:18Chair Cassidy: Putting down partisan jerseys, working together to improve family's health, we in congress and this committee can do this. I released a white paper in may of 2024 with ideas from those who worked with the agency as to how to modernize the agency. To make it better able to fulfill its mission and deliver more lifesaving peers to those who desperately need it.
▶ 0:12:45Chair Cassidy: By the way, if you are dying you are desperate. You always have to have that perspective. Somebody watching on c-span right now is dying and looking to this hearing to give her, to give him hope for the future. If we just keep that in front of us it will give us a seriousness of purpose.
▶ 0:13:06Chair Cassidy: So, in our white paper we consider how to improve the nih grant review process and application process to help researchers who are applying for nih funding move away from risk of -- risk adverse behaviors and fund bigger ideas and fewer incremental experiments. Our current director is on board with that.
▶ 0:13:32Chair Cassidy: Secondly, how can the nih intramural program with its in-house scientists, laboratories, and research hospital better complement research happening at universities? How can intra-and extramural scientists work together tackling complex problems and sharing resources and expertise?
▶ 0:13:50Chair Cassidy: Any scientist should be able to leverage nih technology and the clinical center in the same way that a physics professor can use a particle -- where ever that physics professor is across the nation come a particle accelerator funded by the department of energy. This would allow genius at a small university to access the equipment to allow her genius to shine through, as opposed to being thwarted by the lack of equipment she needs in order to prove her theory.
▶ 0:14:23Chair Cassidy: We have midcareer scientists who feel their careers are stagnating because they don't work at a university in san francisco or boston. Those are great universities, but there are a lot of bright people out there. We need their input if we are going to maximize the potential of the nih.
▶ 0:14:39Chair Cassidy: Next, how can we harness the power of ai to make findings from all studies, be they positive or negative, more easily accessible so the scientist does not go down a blind alley way that others have explored, but because it was a negative study it wasn't published and they would not know that it is a blind alley way? Every now and then at the end of a blind alley way, you find something that points you in the right direction.
▶ 0:15:09Chair Cassidy: Finally, congress must strengthen trust in federally funded research by ensuring the nih funds high-quality, well constructed experiments, particularly of research conducted in other countries in a way that does not add unnecessary administrative burden upon others, upon the researcher. Thanks for coming before the committee to discuss the agency's efforts and how congress can assist.
▶ 0:15:35Chair Cassidy: Since your confirmation you have brought fresh ideas and a willingness to rethink how nih operates, which will strengthen the agency in the long run. I hope that the trump administration's collaboration and support will move congressional reform efforts forward and get shared ideas over the finish line. But, but, but we must acknowledge recent actions at nih have created uncertainty within the american research enterprise and potentially undermine the agency's ability to serve.
▶ 0:16:07Chair Cassidy: Right now, I am just channeling. For a moment I'm going to be the channel. For folks I've heard from. Republicans and democrats on this committee have heard concerns about grant cancellations. The message that those cancellations and a lack of transparency around them have sent to the broader innovation community. Last year, nih terminated more than 1000 awards amounting to $721 million.
▶ 0:16:37Chair Cassidy: Among them were 50 projects on alzheimer's, 99 on hiv/aids, 97 related to life-saving vaccines. We've spoken about this but I look forward to hearing your comments. It even appears to have canceled six projects examining biological differences between women and men, which I thought was a priority for president trump.
▶ 0:17:01Chair Cassidy: Beyond nih, the department of health and human services last year announced the cancellation of roughly $500 million in an research pyramid are not announced it would no longer invest in late stage clinical trials for vaccines using mrna technology.
▶ 0:17:18Chair Cassidy: The technology was advanced to through nih partnerships enabling president trump's operation warp speed, an historic achievement bringing it from conception. Losing this critical tool in our defense against future pandemics puts our national security and individuals' personal health security at risk.
▶ 0:17:47Chair Cassidy: I say this as a strong conservative. We need taxpayer dollars to research, to help families, not subject to political ideology, which masquerades as science. This includes correcting progressive biden era actions that coerced scientists into including d.e.I.
▶ 0:18:09Chair Cassidy: Language and thousands of nih funded grants even when it had zero scientific relevance and was a waste of money and certainly did not make americans healthier, but we can get rid of d.e.I. Without offending lifesaving research in america's biomedical leadership, canceling critical investments that have long enjoyed bipartisan support erodes trust and makes sensitive reforms less likely.
▶ 0:18:37Chair Cassidy: This is an opportunity for you to address these concerns, to tell us about your path forward, which I've been very impressed with. I want to, I think we want to be a good partner in this. I want the trump administration to have the greatest nih in history. We have the power, the ability, the opportunity, the challenge, to unleash american innovation and solve our biggest health challenges.
▶ 0:19:00Chair Cassidy: Nih and congress must work together to meet the moment and improve americans' health, the families, the patients, the desperate person watching, let's let them count on us. Senator sanders.
▶ 0:19:15Sen. Sanders: Thank you for being with us today. Since taking office, president trump has repeatedly promised that he would quote unquote make america healthy again. He said he is "committed to restoring a gold standard for science" and claimed "we've made tremendous strides in cancer research, far more than anyone has done.
▶ 0:19:42Sen. Sanders: He promised to stop pharmaceutical companies from "getting away from murder" by ensuring americans pay the lowest prices in the world for prescription drugs. In august, trump said he would fire "every single one" of his top officials if they did not "have drug costs that dropped like a rock." well, Mr. chairman, as president trump -- has president trump lived up to the promises he made to the american people?
▶ 0:20:11Sen. Sanders: Has he been telling the american people the answer, obviously, not surprisingly, is he lies all the time. Trumps big, beautiful bill made the largest cuts to medicaid in american history.
▶ 0:20:27Sen. Sanders: When you throw 15 million people, low income and working-class people, off the health care they have, people die. There are studies out there that 50,000 or 60,000 americans a year will die because they are no longer able to get to a doctor when you should. I don't think you make america healthy again when you provide a death sentence to 50 or 60,000 americans. And that's not all.
▶ 0:20:58Sen. Sanders: For generations, the chairman touched on this, american families facing cancer, alzheimer's, diabetes, heart disease have looked to the nih for hope. They have relied on nih-funded research, basic research, for new treatments and cures.
▶ 0:21:16Sen. Sanders: Yet, while congress fully funded nih, the trump administration has made the deliberate policy choice to terminate grant's mid study, abandon patients in clinical trials, and drive a generation of scientists to question if they can conduct serious research in the united states.
▶ 0:21:36Sen. Sanders: According to a new report that I'm releasing this morning, instead of making "tremendous strides in cancer research" the nih has terminated or frozen 270 $3 million in cancer research sin trump was inaugurated. The chairman talked about how all over this country people with serious illness or looking for hope. They want breakthroughs. They want to know if they will survive cancer.
▶ 0:22:06Sen. Sanders: Trump administration nih has terminated 273 million dollars in cancer research. But it's not just cancer research. In total, the nih has terminated or frozen at least $561 million in research and refunded more than 300 clinical trials dealing with heart disease, alzheimer's, diabetes, dementia, and pediatric brain tumors.
▶ 0:22:32Sen. Sanders: Moreover, instead of substantially reducing the price of prescription drugs, something that I have worked on for years, everyone here has worked on, everyone here knows that one out of four americans cannot afford the prescription drugs they need. We've all talked to pharmacists who tell us people walk into the drugstore with a prescription and are shocked by the price they have to pay and they can't pay for that.
▶ 0:22:57Sen. Sanders: So, instead of substantially reducing the price of prescription drugs, the prices of more than 870 prescription drugs have gone up, not down, this year alone. Relevant to this hearing, the price of every single drug invented, with the help of nih scientists, is higher in the united states than in other countries.
▶ 0:23:21Sen. Sanders: Here are a few examples, drugs developed, basic research done by american taxpayer dollars through the nih. Johnson & johnson charges americans $57,000 a year for the hiv drug -- I may mispronounce this. That same drug cost $11,000 in the u.k.. $11,000 in the u.k., 9000 dollars in japan.
▶ 0:23:49Sen. Sanders: Gilead charges americans 504,000 dollars for the cancer drug yescarta. The same drug costs $266,000 in germany, half the price. Bristol-myers charges americans 544,000 for a cancer drug while the same drug costs 394 thousand dollars in china.
▶ 0:24:11Sen. Sanders: The bottom line is if we pay for the research, the drug gets developed, other countries charge substantially less than we do in this country. Mr. chairman, the american people are sick and tired of paying by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. People are dying because they cannot afford those prices. We need real action to take on the greed of the pharmaceutical industry and substantially reduce the cost of prescription drugs for all americans.
▶ 0:24:41Sen. Sanders: Not more lies and phony press releases from the white house. Several months ago I introduced legislation that would cut the price of prescription drugs by more than 50% by making sure that americans don't pay more for prescription drugs than europeans or canadians. Not a hard proposition. See what they are paying? The canadians are paying, europeans are paying, we pay the same rate that will lower prescription drug costs in america by half.
▶ 0:25:09Sen. Sanders: President trump, if the administration was serious about lowering the price of prescription drugs, they would support this bill. Dr. bhattacharya, thank you for being here. I hope you will tell us you are prepared to lower the cost of prescription drugs in this country by 50% by supporting that legislation. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:25:30Chair Cassidy: Thank you, senator sanders. We are joined today by jayanta bhattacharya. He told me he preferred to go by Dr. j. Basketball fans can appreciate his fantasy. He's the director of the national institute of health. Marshall is a basketball fan. Dr.
▶ 0:25:50Chair Cassidy: J has had a distinguished career focusing on improving public health widely recognized for his research in health economics, holding medical degrees and a phd in economics from stanford, where he has also served as a professor. Sir, thank you for being with us. We look forward to hearing from you. >> established members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the modernization of the national institutes of health.
▶ 0:26:16Chair Cassidy: I'm honored to lead the nih were research investments have supported major advancements in health and disease over decades peer the chronic disease crisis facing the american people is severe with unacceptably high rates of diabetes, heart disease, cancer, alzheimer's disease, and so many other conditions. Life expectancy for americans is barely above 2010 levels.
▶ 0:26:39Chair Cassidy: The solution to this problem is to modernize the nih to fulfill its mission of investing in research that improves the health and longevity of americans. Some nih investments have a track record of success. For example, this year, decades long work of nih supported research is culminated in not just one but two new gene therapies to cure sickle cell anemia.
▶ 0:27:03Chair Cassidy: When I was in medical school, learning about the sickle cell disease, I never expected to see a cure in my lifetime, and yet here we are thanks to nih-supported research. Nih-funded research is built on gene edited technology to deliver personalized treatment to an infant with a rare previously fatal disease. You may have heard of baby kj. It was supported by the nih common fund, which senator cassidy mentions.
▶ 0:27:33Chair Cassidy: Despite these incredible successes, we can do more and we can do better. As director, one of my top priorities is to rebuild public trust in the nih. Meaningful reforms and increased transparency, strength and scientific rigor, and ensuring accountability is necessary to bolster the nih ability to meet america's future health needs.
▶ 0:27:57Chair Cassidy: It is operating in a rapidly changing technological environment that is accelerating discovery at an unprecedented pace. The science itself evolves. So too must the structures that support it. Under my leadership reform is already underway at the nih. We are consolidating and restructuring core functions within the office of the director to enhance coordination and improve efficiency and strengthen accountability.
▶ 0:28:19Chair Cassidy: For instance, decentralized peer review, which is the basic and most important function of evaluating scientific grants. This consolidation is projected to save millions by eliminating duplication while ensuring more consistent, agnostic, rigorous scientific evaluations on research applications.
▶ 0:28:40Chair Cassidy: A new office with the office of director will support rigorous analysis of the nih research portfolio with the mission of coordinating nih in investments to solve the replication crisis leading to greater impact of our scientific investments on population health. In concrete terms, I expect these efforts to deliver greater value for every taxpayer dollar the nih is entrusted with.
▶ 0:29:02Chair Cassidy: Through our unified planning strategy the nih is empowered to make research portfolio decisions that are better aligned with strategic priorities of the institutes to take advantage of research opportunities in every field of biomedicine, and the urgent health needs our country is facing. To improve public health, scientific discoveries must be translated into more effective interventions.
▶ 0:29:23Chair Cassidy: The nih is investing in human-based models and emerging technologies to improve the translate ability of research into human health and responsibly reduce animal research we are scientifically appropriate peer the nih is actively engaging with the white house and federal policies to implement a policy for increased -- this is a necessary long-overdue step to ensure the nih funded research doesn't lead to the vacant adverse social consequences.
▶ 0:29:48Chair Cassidy: In addition to the reforms underway, we are pursuing additional opportunities to stuart taxpayer dollars responsibly and keep pace with a rapidly evolving scientific landscape. We need to invest and support young scientists to support the brightest biomedical work fund in the world. You need to move the needle for high-risk, high reward research.
▶ 0:30:12Chair Cassidy: Under my leadership they will be judged by their success at curing disease, improving population health, and creating fundamental scientific breakthroughs rather than simply how many scientific papers each project yields. Serving alongside the extraordinary nih and across the country as well as the dedicated colleagues at the nih, is the privilege of my professional life. I'm committed to restoring trust in the nih in building a more accountable, transparent agency that' discoveries enable americans to live longer, healthier lives.
▶ 0:30:42Chair Cassidy: Congress is an essential partner in these efforts and I want to thank you for your time today. I look forward to your ideas and questions.
▶ 0:30:49Chair Cassidy: I will defer to senator marshall.
▶ 0:30:54Sen. Marshall: . Thank you, chairman. Welcome Dr. bhattacharya. Let's talk about gain of function research to start with. I think that it's very well established that covid was a result of gain of function research partially funded by Dr. fauci and american dollars, the vast amount of evidence supports that. A gain of function in my opinion is a greater threat to americans than nuclear warheads are right now. Can you tell me what you're doing to try to end gain of function research? Thank you.
▶ 0:31:25Dr. Bhattacharya: I want to assure the american public listening we have ended any support for gain of function at the nh. We won't be supporting any such projects. The problem is broader than the nih and I've been working closely with lighthouse partners in developing a framework for making sure that this sort of research is never again supported by the american government. I think the key idea is we have to take a risk-based approach.
▶ 0:31:56Dr. Bhattacharya: The old regime used to look at a list of agents and say, are you working on something like ebola or something that might -- if you make it more dangerous, more transmissible? Now, for that approach, even the virus that came out of the wuhan, the bat caves, would never have been on that list.
▶ 0:32:19Dr. Bhattacharya: Now we have a risk-based approach to ensure there is an independent evaluation of every single project that has the potential for causing gain of function, dangerous gain of function. So that we don't support that ever again.
▶ 0:32:30Sen. Marshall: Congress needs to codify that plan in my humble opinion. Long covid. Tens of millions of people suffer from long covid. Previous administration gave them almost 2 billion dollars and made no progress. Certainly, we have formed committees, we have prayed about it. Tell me the progress you are making a long covid.
▶ 0:32:52Sen. Marshall: I think that there is now some studies out there supporting that this is probably more of a inflammation, lymphatic inflammation, there are good tests that you can do to identify long covid?
▶ 0:33:04Dr. Bhattacharya: I've been working with private partners and kennedy's roundtables, where you were joining in contributing. The nih, we have refocused investments to evaluate treatments that people are actually receiving and promising new treatments rather than just trying to find a biomarker. It seems like there is lots of progress that has been made in the private sector for this. For the nih' as part we will continue to make investments.
▶ 0:33:35Dr. Bhattacharya: It's important that we have an answer for so many americans who are suffering from long covid, as well as so many other conditions that where we don't have great science. At the nih we have replicable science focused on these problems.
▶ 0:33:53Sen. Marshall: There are people out there listening to this hearing right now with long covid. Is there something on the website that you would say, here is a starter spot?
▶ 0:34:03Dr. Bhattacharya: There is a long covid -- it is called the recover initiative at the nih. Folks can look there for the latest information. We've shifted the portfolio away from trying to find a set of biomarkers that are absolutely perfect. If you have long covid you know what has happened to you.
▶ 0:34:28Dr. Bhattacharya: The key thing is, answers for long covid patients., validated treatments. What people need are great, randomized, rigorous scientific evidence of that they know what they are doing.
▶ 0:34:42Sen. Marshall: How we started those studies yet?
▶ 0:34:45Dr. Bhattacharya: We absolutely have, senator.
▶ 0:34:48Sen. Marshall: It will take a good year yet?
▶ 0:34:51Dr. Bhattacharya: It is hard to say. Promising timelines in science is always a difficult thing, but we are moving as fast as we can.
▶ 0:34:59Sen. Marshall: Let's finish with antimicrobial resistance. You know this issue better than I do. What are you guys doing to study antimicrobial resistance?
▶ 0:35:09Dr. Bhattacharya: Antimicrobial resistance is a huge problem so many of the newest antibiotics are causing evolution in bacteria that become resistant. We have shifted the portfolio of antimicrobial resistance to think not just about it's whether you have a bug that has evolved and in the lab is no longer susceptible. It is within patients. It is a patient-centered research agenda.
▶ 0:35:38Dr. Bhattacharya: The folks who are working on this are very hopeful that with this new paradigm we can solve the problem in a way that we are not just raising the latest bug.
▶ 0:35:48Chair Cassidy: Senator sanders.
▶ 0:35:50Sen. Sanders: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Dr. bhattacharya, according to the american medical association, which represents over 270,000 doctors, "an abundance of evidence from decades of scientific studies shows no link between vaccines and autism." that includes over a dozen rigorous scientific studies involving hundreds of thousands of children.
▶ 0:36:19Sen. Sanders: Last week, you said, "the character" of secretary kennedy you've seen in the press is "totally unfair." you have seen him change his mind, you said, when you have sent evidence to him. My question is, have you shown secretary kennedy the existing evidence that shows that vaccines do not cause autism?
▶ 0:36:45Sen. Sanders: What steps are you taking to make sure that our nation's health policy is guided by scientists and not conspiracy theorists? Please talk into the mic a little closer.
▶ 0:36:59Dr. Bhattacharya: Thank you for that question, senator. I'm absolutely convinced, for instance, the measles epidemic we are seeing currently is best solved by parents vaccinating their children for measles. I have said that publicly and privately.
▶ 0:37:14Sen. Sanders: Please say it again loudly and clearly so parents all over this country can hear you. Please, say it again.
▶ 0:37:22Dr. Bhattacharya: The best way to address the measles epidemic in this country is to vaccinate your children for measles. I've also heard secretary kennedy say that publicly. As you said in the quote I've seen him caricatured quite unfairly. The key thing for me is we have to address the deep distrust that has developed over the last several years by the public.
▶ 0:37:46Sen. Sanders: I don't have a lot of time. You are right, there is deep mistrust. Do you think that that deep mistrust has something to do with when you have an organization like the american medical association telling us that vaccines do not cause autism but you have a secretary of hhs that tells you the opposite? Does that cause concern and mistrust among parents?
▶ 0:38:13Dr. Bhattacharya: In 2024 there was a study in the journal of the american medical association that said 40% of patients still trust their doctors. As someone who went to medical school myself, that is shocking. That's before secretary kennedy took office. We have to address mistrust but it has to be a bipartisan effort.
▶ 0:38:33Sen. Sanders: Let me ask you a simple question. Do vaccines cause autism? Yes, no?
▶ 0:38:41Dr. Bhattacharya: I do not believe the measles vaccine causes autism.
▶ 0:38:46Sen. Sanders: I didn't ask measles. Do vaccines cause autism?
▶ 0:38:50Dr. Bhattacharya: I have not seen a study that suggests any single vaccine causes autism.
▶ 0:38:57Sen. Sanders: Thank you. What are the issues the american people are concerned about, the high cost of prescription drugs. I think everyone on this panel, committee, worries about that.
▶ 0:39:13Sen. Sanders: President trump has said that we are going to have the lowest prices anywhere in the world for prescription drugs and your drug prices will go down 600, 700, 8 hundred percent. Pretty good. If I walk into a pharmacy in my drug prices have gone down 800%, not only do I not have to pay anything for the drug, the pharmacy is going to give me money back.
▶ 0:39:41Sen. Sanders: Is president trump telling the truth when he says that drug prices in america are going to go down 600%, 700%, 800%?
▶ 0:39:51Dr. Bhattacharya: The nih addresses drug prices by reducing drug prices through technological innovation. I mentioned in my opening statement about the cure for sickle cell anemia. Senator, it cost $3 million. I directed our folks to start investing in research to lower the price of that through innovation. Also, repurposed drugs.
▶ 0:40:16Sen. Sanders: I apologize again. I have very little time. I would assume you would agree that when people go to the pharmacy they don't get free drugs despite what president trump has said. Will you support legislation that I have authored that will lower the price of prescription drugs in this country by half th rough not paying more than other countries are paying?
▶ 0:40:43Dr. Bhattacharya: Senator, I'm not in a position to support or not support legislation, but I'm happy to work with anyone to help lower the price of drugs.
▶ 0:40:50Sen. Sanders: Thank you very much.
▶ 0:40:53Chair Cassidy: Senator tuberville. Coach?
▶ 0:40:59Sen. Tuberville: , thank you for being here today, thank you for coming to my state of alabama not too long ago. I hear you had a great visit. Thank you for trying to put the genie back in the bottle on trust. In my state, no one trusts health care anymore. It has been a disaster. 4, 5 years of covid has put us in a tailspin. Thank you for trying to work with that.
▶ 0:41:23Sen. Tuberville: Hopefully we can all help you in that situation, because we need to believe in our health care system. Nih is accelerating public access to federally funded research by removing temporary delays known as embargo periods, allowing taxpayers to see results sooner and increasing transparency. Do you think making nih funding research immediately available would help rebuild trust among americans who feel science has become politicized or disconnected from the public?
▶ 0:41:53Dr. Bhattacharya: Absolutely, yes. There's no reason there should be red tape for american funded science that is published and you have to wait to see it. That's ridiculous. You ended that, Sen. tuberville: senator. A couple of weeks ago you announced nih was ending the use of human fetal tissue from elective abortions and all taxpayer-funded research conducted or funded by nih.
▶ 0:42:18Dr. Bhattacharya: I'm grateful that you took action to prevent tax dollars from being used for research that exploits the remains of aborted children. Can you please explain how advances in technology and innovation allow us to conduct a life-saving research without having this?
▶ 0:42:32Dr. Bhattacharya: Absolutely, senator. We did an analysis. Even when it was legal during the biden administration, the use of human fetal tissue had been plummeting, because there are better alternatives available that are not ethically conflicted. We took this action because we wanted to make sure that the fruits of nih research is morally acceptable to the entire american population.
▶ 0:42:56Sen. Tuberville: Thank you. My state has two schools of osteopathic medicine. The funding for osteoporotic medicine is 0.1% of nih funding while -- receiving 40%. What is your thought on the disparity between the two?
▶ 0:43:18Dr. Bhattacharya: Generally in the nih portfolio of research investments outside are too concentrated in a few institutions. I think 20% of the top institutions -- .4% of the top institutions get 20 percent of our funding for extramural research.
▶ 0:43:35Dr. Bhattacharya: I think of ways to broaden the base so that it includes a much larger range of ideas, a much larger percent of places than currently enjoy nih funding.
▶ 0:43:50Sen. Tuberville: Research is not being funded domestically or worldwide?
▶ 0:43:59Dr. Bhattacharya: I don't have control over the world's research investments --
▶ 0:44:03Sen. Tuberville: Our money we are investing.
▶ 0:44:06Dr. Bhattacharya: Worldwide. We won't fund any dangerous gain of function. No dangerous research programs in wuhan, china.
▶ 0:44:15Chair Cassidy: Senator murray.
▶ 0:44:19Sen. Murray: . Thank you, Mr. chairman. Nih funds thousands of clinical trials around the world. For families, these trials represent hope and a chance for new treatments and cures. Last year, one in 30 nih-funded clinical trials were disrupted by the trump administration's current terminations. It affected more than 74,000 trial participants.
▶ 0:44:45Sen. Murray: Would you have to say to patients who are receiving that lifesaving treatment whose clinical trials were impacted by those cuts?
▶ 0:44:53Dr. Bhattacharya: Senator, we make sure that if there was any disruption that the researchers have resources available to make sure that the patients receive continuity of care. Ultimately, we worked with researchers across the country to make sure that the clinical trials were really focused on advancing health and not on other political agendas, and renegotiated them. Ultimately we have preliminary estimates that ended up only a dozen clinical trials were terminated rather than --
▶ 0:45:22Sen. Murray: My time is short. The trump administration terminated or froze 5400 78 nih grants last year. In less than six months the trump administration terminated 383 active nih clinical trials including one hundred 18 cancer clinical trials. Those patients are in a race for time. Can you guarantee to us today that nih will not terminate grants in this wide-ranging haphazard way again today?
▶ 0:45:52Dr. Bhattacharya: Most of those trials were restored.
▶ 0:45:56Sen. Murray: My question wasn't going backwards, it's going forwards. Do you guarantee you won't terminate any nih trials this year?
▶ 0:46:05Dr. Bhattacharya: In 2020 a large number of clinical trials were terminated. It's hard to predict the future. Real fast, I can guarantee we will focus our clinical trial efforts on advancing health and not on illogical --
▶ 0:46:22Sen. Murray: Tens of thousands of people rely on these clinical trials. It's not easy to get into them and I think we deserve an answer that is much clearer and more directed than you just gave. This time last year all of nih's institutes and centers were prohibited from holding advisory council meetings, which is the final step. It's mandated by law before nih can award any grants. Under your leadership, advisory council members have not been replaced at the end of their terms.
▶ 0:46:51Sen. Murray: For the first time in nih's 139-year history, you completely disbanded the advisory committee to the directorate. It hasn't met in more than a year. More than half of nih institutes are set to lose all of their voting advisory committee members by the end of 2026. One of the institutes' councils will have no members by the end of this month.
▶ 0:47:15Sen. Murray: Since grants cannot be funded without council approval, this poses a very serious threat to nih's ability to fund research. How many, tell us how many institute advisory councils and of review panels have been disbanded under your leadership, and tell us how you are going to fix this.
▶ 0:47:37Dr. Bhattacharya: Up ordered the institutes to nominate new members. We are working as fast as we can with the dozens and dozens of new members, including for the advisory committee director. I have set up the slate. We will have those committees working. There will be no delay.
▶ 0:47:53Sen. Murray: If you can provide this committee, please, with information on the status of every one of these councils and your agenda for getting them done? You cannot by law spend research dollars until those are in place.
▶ 0:48:11Dr. Bhattacharya: I will make sure those councils are staffed. Two weeks ago nih issued a ban on fetal tissue research. This policy immediately halted all research that has led to groundbreaking medical advances from the development of the polio vaccine ivf. This stops irreplaceable research in a new treatment for everything from alzheimer's to parkinson's.
▶ 0:48:39Dr. Bhattacharya: What is the scientific evidence for you banning fetal tissue research?
▶ 0:48:44Dr. Bhattacharya: Fetal tissue research has been declining because of the availability of new technologies. We did a study investigation to make sure that the impact --
▶ 0:48:56Sen. Murray: You don't have any evidence you will put in front of us? You're just saying something else is there. There are not always better alternatives. For stem cell research, it is very limited. You are not presenting us -- it seems -- I will tell you why I am asking. This seems like a political decision by nih. You made the decision right when we were having a nice gathering of antiabortion activists in D.C.
▶ 0:49:26Sen. Murray: You can see why all of us go, what is this about? I'm very concerned that nih issuing this ban with very little notice will have a huge impact on patients in this country, and I want you to commit to providing to us a complete list of affected projects so we on this committee know what has been terminated, hopefully by the end of this week.
▶ 0:49:50Dr. Bhattacharya: You can have that. I'm telling you, we did not -- we did not terminate projects. We recommended, required, that the scientists find alternatives. There are alternatives available. Using tissue from aborted embryos, aborted babies, is not necessary for science.
▶ 0:50:10Sen. Murray: We have been around on this topic many times. We know full well the scientific research of this enables and what is being cut off. In fact, what is really disconcerting is nih is threatening the use of human embryonic stem cells. That will affect upwards of 600 nih projects totaling 325 million dollars. Mr. chairman, you bet I will be following this very closely.
▶ 0:50:38Chair Cassidy: Senator moody.
▶ 0:50:39Sen. Moody: . Thank you, chairman cassidy, for convening this important hearing. You know, I think this hearing is important because we want to make sure the nih has the public's trust, is focused on transparency and scientific rigor when it comes to how we are using taxpayer funds to improve american health.
▶ 0:51:02Sen. Moody: I commend you for taking on this role and this enormous responsibility, not just in what is mandated of you in this role in terms of improving nih and how we are prolonging american lives, but restoring trust, which I think is a big agenda item that you have taken on and are committed to achieving. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:51:29Sen. Moody: Indeed, the nih's support has led to revolutions in health, mapping the human genome, treatments in hiv/aids, some of the accolades of the nih. In addition to this storied legacy we have to question where we may have gone off path. I think that is part of what you are bringing to this role now.
▶ 0:51:55Sen. Moody: Under the last administration there was a point in time where the american life expectancy hit its lowest level since 1996. What we see from some reports, this is probably due to more than just covid. There was a drug epidemic and many other things going on.
▶ 0:52:11Sen. Moody: I think it raised a lot of eyebrows and concerns when the nih seemed to start inserting political agendas outside of meeting high scientific standards and promoting american health in how it was disseminating taxpayer money.
▶ 0:52:31Sen. Moody: There is no doubt, no doubt, the biden administration required applicants to show d.e.I. Standards, numbers, measures, and take that into account. Right.
▶ 0:52:51Sen. Moody: I think some of the things canceled by the trump administration were for research grants like sexual education for transgender and gender expansion youth, cannabis use among gender diverse individuals, lgbtq+ inclusive pregnancy prevention for transgender boys, there are more examples of this, but I point out at a time when life expectancy in america hit
▶ 0:53:21Sen. Moody: Its lowest in decades, this is what we were pushing and making sure that our grant applicants were including in their applications rather than how will your grant application expand life expectancy for americans. And there were so many instances during the covid years where americans' constitutional rights in response to the pandemic were just ripped.
▶ 0:53:52Sen. Moody: As attorney general in florida when we became known as the freest state in the nation, the great free state of florida, had to push back against a lot of what was going on during the last administration. That was coming out of these health institutions out of washington. Americans were forced to take vaccines, forced to stay in their homes, forced to shut down their businesses, forced out of their jobs, forced to stay home from school and church.
▶ 0:54:19Sen. Moody: I could keep going, but this was becoming commonplace during those years. Pushed out of health institutions in washington. When I was attorney general our office conducted a grand jury investigation. The grand jury found that while we were pushing things out of washington, pushing for more and more vaccines, more boosters, that scientists were raising concerns.
▶ 0:54:49Sen. Moody: They saw their careers destroyed for speaking publicly. Scientists, doctors. One of the things that you bring back to bear is how can we encourage dialogue, scientific rigor? Can you tell us what your steps since taking office have been to restore american trust in the nih that it is in fact mission-driven to improving american health and not other political agendas?
▶ 0:55:18Dr. Bhattacharya: Thanks for that question. For me, the key measure of my success as nih director will be, how we actually made americans healthier at the end of the term and the discoveries continue to make americans healthier, reversed the life expectancy flatlining we've seen since 2010. The starts I've taken are two direct the institute of directors who make the portfolio choices.
▶ 0:55:44Dr. Bhattacharya: I will evaluate them on the basis of, do they actually make americans healthier? All americans. Every american should benefit tangibly. Senator cassidy talked about lost hope. We have to address that by better treatments, better cures, better understanding of disease, and I have worked to de -politicize the agency, remove the focus on tangential things that have nothing to do with making americans healthier that I think characterize of what we had before -- character at some
▶ 0:56:15Dr. Bhattacharya: Of what we had before. Now focus only on improving american health.
▶ 0:56:20Chair Cassidy: Senator hassan.
▶ 0:56:23Sen. Hassan: . Thank you, Mr. chairman. Thank you and senator sanders for this hearing. Dr., it's good to see you. Thank you for being here. Let me start with a question that is really important to my state. A decade of evidence from nih shows medication is the most effective treatment to treat opioid addiction.
▶ 0:56:45Sen. Hassan: Despite this evidence only one in five americans with opioid addiction receive medicine-assisted treatment. The white house announced a new initiative focused on addiction recovery is part of the white house recovery initiative. Will you commit to funding additional research on how we can expand access to medication-assisted treatment?
▶ 0:57:06Dr. Bhattacharya: I commit to funding any research program that will improve outcomes, because I agree with you, senator. It is a major problem. 80,000 americans died in 2024 --
▶ 0:57:16Sen. Moody: If you come to my estate you meet families that have lost more than one child or family member to the fentanyl epidemic in particular.
▶ 0:57:27Dr. Bhattacharya: I'm happy to work with you.
▶ 0:57:29Sen. Hassan: 300 fewer research projects were awarded last year compared to the year before, meaning that americans fighting cancer will have to wait longer for potential breakthrough treatments and cures. This is due to the cuts that the nih has made two critical areas of medical research, something that the chairman raised in his opening comments.
▶ 0:57:52Sen. Hassan: For example, one of the ways in which you cut research is by requiring researchers to spread out one year of funding over multiple years, which means that there is less money available for new projects. Has the nih conducted a comprehensive review of how national cancer institute funding disruptions have harmed cancer patients?
▶ 0:58:11Dr. Bhattacharya: It is not true we cut funding. We spent the entire nih -- the entire nih budget last year was spent.
▶ 0:58:22Sen. Hassan: The researchers in new hampshire whose patients have suffered want to know if you studied the impact of your funding disruptions. I'm using the word disruption. Have you studied the impact on actual cancer patients who were in mid-trials?
▶ 0:58:35Dr. Bhattacharya: We make sure that if there were any disruptions in any trial that the researchers had -- that the patients had the resources they needed to get continuity of care. The commitment the nih has the funding cancer research is un -diminished.
▶ 0:58:55Sen. Hassan: My question is, have you done a study to look at the impact, the harms that cancer patients have experienced ? If you haven't a good objective study will show that. Have you done a study?
▶ 0:59:12Dr. Bhattacharya: The nih funds studies. We don't conduct directly the studies. Let me say clearly that I do not believe that patients' care was disrupted. I ordered if there were any disruptions at all that the patients would have continuity of care. If there were disruptions, it is the responsibility of the researchers that were managing the patients, not the nih.
▶ 0:59:36Sen. Hassan: That is an unacceptable, outrageous response. You could make an edict from washington, D.C., don't disrupt continuity of care, but that can be a complicated thing. I know that my state, there were disruptions in studies that have billy put patients at risk and you all should be interested in that data and you should be working to find out whether it happened. I will move to another topic.
▶ 1:00:02Sen. Hassan: I only have about one minute 20 seconds, so I want to go to my next topic. Last week, secretary kennedy appointed vaccine cynics to the inter-agency autism coordinating committee. A federal advisory committee responsible for coordinating the federal government's autism programs and research. Several of these new members have stated that they believe vaccines cause autism. Now, I know you've had an exchange with senator sanders about this, but I want to be clear.
▶ 1:00:32Sen. Hassan: Do you believe vaccines cause autism?
▶ 1:00:35Dr. Bhattacharya: I believe there is great evidence the measles vaccine does not cause autism. I have not seen any scientific study for any other vaccine that convinces me that cause autism.
▶ 1:00:47Sen. Hassan: Studies involving more than a million children have thoroughly debunked the theory that there is a connection between vaccines and autism. You agree with that?
▶ 1:00:55Dr. Bhattacharya: I agree when you're sitting anything like this you can't just say vaccines. You have to say vaccine by vaccine. I've seen so many studies on measles vaccines and autism that established there is no link.
▶ 1:01:08Sen. Hassan: But the theory of what caused the alleged link is about a component that is used for the delivery of vaccines and is a common one used throughout vaccines. That theory has been debunked by a broad set of studies with over one million children and relitigating debunked theories about vaccines doesn't get us closer to the answer of causes autism.
▶ 1:01:38Sen. Hassan: In fact, there is good science that indicates it is probably a combination of genetic factors and possibly environmental factors, right. There is a good summary of that in a washington post article from late december of the science. I would hope that with the nih is doing is moving forward on what the science is telling us so that we can address autism rather than relitigating this.
▶ 1:02:06Sen. Hassan: And when vaccine cynics, who say vaccines cause autism, are put on the advisory board, this hurts people all across the country. It's very dangerous to our public health and our families who experience autism. Thank you.
▶ 1:02:20Dr. Bhattacharya: Very fast, we funded a study that is looking at the genetic and mental potential causes of autism. I don't know what causes autism. I don't think anyone does. The nih is committed to getting an answer for the millions of families that have --
▶ 1:02:40Sen. Hassan: I appreciate that, Mr. chair, with one minute of indulgence, the smart, responsible thing to do would be to say to families, there is promising science. This is where it is leading us. To relieve their concern that getting their kids vaccinated is going to cause autism. That would be the responsible thing. Thank you.
▶ 1:03:02Chair Cassidy: Senator banks.
▶ 1:03:06Sen. Banks: Dr., you don't know what causes autism, but it's clear that there has been a significant increase in the number of cases of autism, correct?
▶ 1:03:18Dr. Bhattacharya: Correct.
▶ 1:03:20Sen. Banks: Can you give us color on that?
▶ 1:03:23Dr. Bhattacharya: I think in 1985 there were one in 20,000, 30,000 kids diagnosed with autism and now it is one in 31. An enormous exponential increase in a few short decades.
▶ 1:03:37Sen. Banks: Listening to the question before me, it's also true that this administration under your leadership is doing more to study and try to find the causes of autism than any administration before ■you, correct?
▶ 1:03:51Dr. Bhattacharya: That is correct. We established a new program to study autism to try to get an answer for millions and millions of families. What is the reason why? It will be complicated. Autism is a complicated disease. People are saying that it is psychiatric.
▶ 1:04:20Dr. Bhattacharya: I think the answer is likely to be complicated, biomedical process, different for different groups of autistic patients.
▶ 1:04:24Sen. Banks: This doesn't seem like a republican or democrat issue, one we should be thanking you in the administration for doing more to figure out what is causing it and what we do about it. I wasn't planning on asking about that, but thank you for your leadership on studying the causes of autism because there are a lot of families in indiana affected that appreciate that focus. Indiana is home to three r1 research institutions, indiana university, purdue, notre dame.
▶ 1:04:53Sen. Banks: To give a few examples, iu is making groundbreaking discoveries into early alzheimer's, purdue is focused on treatments for opioid addiction and pioneering the science of suppressing cancer-related genes as one example. Notre dame is exploring how to make malaria less resistant to antibiotics. Those are a few examples of the type of important research going on in my great state to make americans healthier.
▶ 1:05:19Sen. Banks: Doctor, despite having the country's largest medical school at indiana university, and several top-notch research institutions, indiana only gets $350 million of nih funding every year -- last year, rather. The contrast that with the state of massachusetts, which is virtually the same size as my state come receive nearly $3 billion last year in nih funding.
▶ 1:05:49Sen. Banks: What is going on, can you explain why schools on the coast seem to get more nih funding in schools or states like my state that is doing a lot of research as well?
▶ 1:05:58Dr. Bhattacharya: We have programs to try to get more money to places like indiana that have been under it -- frankly, I've been around the country. Alabama, indiana, kansas, a bunch of places. There are great ideas everywhere. What happens is, nih, the way that we fund the facilities is tied to having great researchers already there that can win nih money. There is a catch 22.
▶ 1:06:27Dr. Bhattacharya: To attract researchers you have to have great facilities. You see the problem. It is a catch 22 that guarantees that our funding is really concentrated. I would love to work with congress to find a way to break that link. Maybe introduce a market for facility support? If purdue can have a square foot of lab space that they would get a leg up, market thinking into distributing the facilities, and unlink it from the projects.
▶ 1:07:00Dr. Bhattacharya: The projects are amazing, but linking the projects to the facility support I think is what leads to the concentration you're talking about.
▶ 1:07:06Sen. Banks: I like the sound of that. Six states receive nearly half of nih funding but the bottom 30 states only get 13% of the funding. Along those lines, how are you making sure that universities all over the country can compete equally for the funding? What does that metric look like? How can we help you develop a more competitive process?
▶ 1:07:27Dr. Bhattacharya: For the delinking I will need congress to help. We have the ideas program to direct more funding to places that have great ideas that don't necessarily always get our funding. The other thing is, we change the way the institutes select projects, to make sure that there is this geographic diversity.
▶ 1:07:50Dr. Bhattacharya: It makes a scientific sense because you want schools of thought, competition, concentrating in a few places against scientific groupthink.
▶ 1:07:59Sen. Banks: Appreciate your leadership and everything you're doing.
▶ 1:08:01Chair Cassidy: My staff is very interested in pursuing this so we would love to collaborate with you. I agree we need to have good institutions, but you also need it not to become self-fulfilling. Senator kaine. Wearing a really good tie.
▶ 1:08:22Sen. Kaine: Very mardi gras. Thanks for being here. I want to begin with an interchange that you had with senator marshall about long covid. When you and I met in my office prior to the hearing, I talked to you about my own long covid experience that has been consistent for now six years. Thank goodness it is mild and annoying rather than debilitating, but I have senate colleagues that have also dealt with long covid issues and senate colleagues' family members have. This is a big issue.
▶ 1:08:53Sen. Kaine: I was happy to hear secretary kennedy convened roundtables that included senator marshall in senator young in september, but I want to put on the record a number of steps that the administration has taken that make people who are dealing with long covid wonder if the administration really cares about them.
▶ 1:09:12Sen. Kaine: Last february the trump administration pulled down key information on public websites that provided guidance to americans with long covid on their rights under the americans with disabilities act. That information was removed.
▶ 1:09:30Sen. Kaine: To hhs advisory committee on loan covid and last march administration shutter the agency for research long covid court ending center, which is used to coordinate long covid centers funded by hrq. That was bipartisan funding that senator young and I were to secure.
▶ 1:09:51Sen. Kaine: All of that happen before the cdc downgraded its recommendation of the covid-19 vaccine and research shows them vaccinated is one of the best and most accessible ways to prevent long covid. So the roundtables in september are good but there have been a whole series of administrative actions that have made folks dealing with long covid wonder if this administration cares.
▶ 1:10:17Sen. Kaine: I want to ask about other topics but I would like to ask you or your team to come in and spend some time with my team to talk about what the nih is doing in this area so I can hopefully communicate to people in virginia and elsewhere that this is a priority, being taken seriously. Can I get your commitment?
▶ 1:10:36Dr. Bhattacharya: Absolutely.
▶ 1:10:40Sen. Kaine: I appreciate your point it is not just about finding the biomarker. Even if that is confusing, if you can find treatments that are working, that is a really good thing. I look forward to talking about that. You preside over an agency that has shrunk dramatically. Before you are confirmed at the end of 2024, nih employed more than 21,000 people. Entering this year, the workforce has been reduced to 17,300.
▶ 1:11:10Sen. Kaine: Of those, -- I'm sorry, nearly 4000 departures. 1100 were doctoral level scientists. In preparation for this hearing, I reached out to virginia grantees and here is what I hear about their interactions with nih. Significant delays in peer review. 2025, nih canceled scores of peer review meetings, delaying evaluations of thousands of applications for about $1.5 million in funding.
▶ 1:11:40Sen. Kaine: In backlog that you are still resolving. Much of this happened before the government shutdown at the end of october. It was already a serious problem. Second, hear from grantees increased burdens about the funding drawdown process is they're trying to get funds drawn down on grants they received. There are additional requirements and requirements already pretty burdensome. Third, back logs. Nih fell behind in 2025.
▶ 1:12:11Sen. Kaine: This started well before the october 1 shutdown. Fourth, disruptions to research programs and personnel. I think senator hassan ask you about that. Fifth, increased communication challenges. Grantees report communication with nih has ground to a halt in many ways and that nih staff appear to be overstretched, caring increased responsibilities. Finally, rapid policy changes without sufficient community input rated policies need to change but there ought to be a dialogue about that.
▶ 1:12:41Sen. Kaine: This is what grantees are telling me about their interaction with nih now. I look at those concerns and I look at the shrinking of the workforce and I believe they have to be connected in some way. What are you doing to address these backlogs and challenges that virginia grantees and others are expressing?
▶ 1:12:59Dr. Bhattacharya: Let me focus on the backlog. I am tremendously proud of the nih employees because we got all of those grants reviewed by the end of the fiscal year. That is what we were able to get the money out. Tens of thousands of reviewers devoted their time -- I used to be one of this reviewers myself. Even after the senate -- after the shutdown in october, I was really worried about that.
▶ 1:13:29Dr. Bhattacharya: Since the reopening of the nih after the shutdown, people have stepped up at the nih at all across the country. We are basically not going to have any delay as a consequence of the shutdown. People have really stepped up. We are working on filling personnel holes and all that. I personally don't want to see any delays. I was a researcher myself once.
▶ 1:13:58Dr. Bhattacharya: It is something we have worked on heavily and achieved a lot of success. There were disruptions last year, but I'm hoping this year even with the shutdown and all that, we have figured out processes to be more efficient, reduce the amount of administrative burden and redtape, making researchers lives easier to propose amazing ideas.
▶ 1:14:25Sen. Kaine: I will keep giving you feedback on what my grantees are expressing. Thank you. >> the signals that the administration is sending a medical research by proposing deep cuts at nih's budget, which the appropriations committee sent both the house and senate rejected. And the klein backward termination of hundreds of grants.
▶ 1:14:55Sen. Kaine: It could jeopardize our country's global leadership in medical research. There is another part of this that goes beyond the money. And that is the signal that it sends to young scientists and researchers.
▶ 1:15:18Sen. Kaine: We know that china and europe are actively recruiting the very best young minds that we have in this country. It used to be the flow was the opposite direction. We got the best of the best from around the world.
▶ 1:15:35Sen. Kaine: But now we see young scientists and researchers, particularly at smaller institutions, which are already at a disadvantage compared to larger institutions when grant applications are scored under the current peer review system. Considering, is there room for me in america to pursue my passion.
▶ 1:16:06Sen. Kaine: Just recently come the research professors at bowdoin college in maine mentioned this problem to me. But I have heard it from many other colleges and universities and young researchers themselves. Will the changes in nih unified funding strategy improve the ability of these early career scientists to be selected for funding absolutely, yes.
▶ 1:16:39Sen. Kaine: It is not just a scientific priority because that is often where the source of new ideas come from. But also as you say, national security priority. It is our priority of mine specifically. I think this is a problem that goes way back. Once upon a time, could get a large grant at nih, first one and early 30's, now mid 40's before you do. I haven't focused on trying to solve this problem.
▶ 1:17:06Sen. Kaine: I should say up front, the united states is still the single best place in the world to have a career in biomedical research. 85% of all public funding, worldwide, is the nih. If a researcher goes abroad, they will have a tougher time getting it funded that in the united states.
▶ 1:17:28Sen. Kaine: That is the message I want to reach out to tell young researchers, the nih is committed to finding ways to give you the training you need and the support you need to try your ideas out.
▶ 1:17:40Sen. Collins: That is a message that needs to be repeated time and again. We don't need any more of these huge budget cuts submitted as part of the president's budget, which should be coming out soon. I want to talk to you about an issue that we discussed in our meetings, and that is women's health.
▶ 1:18:01Sen. Collins: I believe that some of the emphasis on doing away with diversity has had the unintended effect of worsening the neglect of researching women's health. We also know there are health disparities. For example, pregnant women who are black have a higher maternal morbidity rate than white women.
▶ 1:18:32Sen. Collins: We know that asian women have a better outcome than white women. So I am concerned that we not pull back from looking at these health disparities and figuring out why that is, and you and I have talked before about the flawed to study that led to many women not receiving hormone replacement therapy during
▶ 1:19:05Sen. Collins: Menopause. So that points to the need for replication as well. But talk to me generally about how you're going to proceed to look at these health disparities in women's health if we are removing diversity as a criteria. >> I committed to improving -- putting in research that improves women's health.
▶ 1:19:36Sen. Collins: We have not stepped back from that at all. Broadly speaking, also true for minority populations. The mission of the nih is to do research that improves the health and longevity of all americans -- women, minorities, everybody. In way the diversity frame, it is sort of setting the bar too low.
▶ 1:19:58Sen. Collins: If we can improve the health of every single person in the united states, whether their differences in outcomes or not, much less relevant or important than just the fact of making people healthier. That is what I much more interested in. Working in women's health, improving the health of minorities. Yes, especially minority populations are worse health outcomes that need to be addressed.
▶ 1:20:22Chair Cassidy: Senator hickenlooper.
▶ 1:20:24Sen. Hickenlooper: Thank you. You previously have described the mrna platform as promising technology. There is research coming out of the university of florida cancer center that suggests there is additional benefit from mrna vaccines in terms of the body's immune response to cancer.
▶ 1:20:54Sen. Hickenlooper: In our recent past, nih researchers conducted numerous studies on the platform mrna, and that research has been used as a basis for vaccine developing projects at the biomedical advanced development authority to great success and goes back -- some of that research goes back to colorado and jennifer dowden and give a nobel prize in there somewhere.
▶ 1:21:23Sen. Hickenlooper: Yet secretary kitted has canceled all of the mrna projects, so $500 million of research got canceled. What is up? We have not canceled
▶ 1:21:34Dr. Bhattacharya: --
▶ 1:21:34Dr. Bhattacharya: We have not canceled. A research project at the nih for mrna for cancer vaccines. It seems like quite a promising technology. It will depend on nature. We haven't stopped our research on cancer vaccines.
▶ 1:21:57Sen. Gillibrand: Again, are you concerned we are going -- were taking 500 million dollars of research already in projects -- phd students are two years, three years into their research and it is stopped. Talking about keeping people excited read how are you going to address that?
▶ 1:22:14Dr. Bhattacharya: If you're asking about the barda contracts, I'm not in charge of barda, but also refocusing the money on places where people trust the vaccines makes more sense to me. The mrna vaccines for covid for instance had very low uptake.
▶ 1:22:33Dr. Bhattacharya: It doesn't make a lot of sense to invest in a technology -- bessent technologies said what that are promising, that have already much more public trust seems like a better public health investment. That is separate from the nih investment. Nih investment is not research for the future. Better vaccines, better treatments for cancer. That is where I focus my emphasis.
▶ 1:23:00Sen. Hickenlooper: I guess I'm concerned about that uptake you said there's not as much uptake with mrna vaccines. I don't think there's any science that backs that, so we should all be concerned about that and make sure we are pursuing those delivery vehicles that are the most successful.
▶ 1:23:18Sen. Hickenlooper: Let me switch to the include project which we discussed where it is an effort of ground breaking discoveries about conditions that disproportionately affect people with down syndrome is one example, things like alzheimer's disease. Probability they will get alzheimer's is dramatically higher.
▶ 1:23:39Sen. Hickenlooper: Led by the office of nih director, include project for earnings multiple institutes under a coordinated approach delivering significant scientific discoveries and new treatments simultaneously. We have worked hard to advance a bipartisan act which would codify this I think extraordinary initiative.
▶ 1:24:07Sen. Hickenlooper: How can the include project service model at nih to improve scientific collaboration and return on taxpayer investment?
▶ 1:24:13Dr. Bhattacharya: It is a wonderful project. I wholeheartedly support it. I think the reason it works is it does involve work from multiple institutes. Collaborations. It is kind of a model of scientific collaboration that can happen only in a place like the nh.
▶ 1:24:39Dr. Bhattacharya: I have been working to break down those walls for many -- the long covid for example we had -- for example. It is so easy to just focus on your field. That is not how you get big advances.
▶ 1:24:55Sen. Hickenlooper: I hope the congressional report in which will fund no less than $90 million for the include project. Also increased funding for down syndrome. Hopefully, we can stay focused on that. I do feel -- I hear from people in colorado all the time, they feel there is a war on science in washington. They feel there is widespread, work lists disassociation -- reckless, dissociation of the foundation of our research.
▶ 1:25:26Sen. Hickenlooper: I know from our conversations you share the concern probably disagree with how real the threat is.
▶ 1:25:31Dr. Bhattacharya: I say come spend a day. There is no war on science, just a desire to have our science really help the america people get healthier. That is what I see every day the nih. .
▶ 1:25:43Chair Cassidy: Senator murkowski.
▶ 1:25:47Sen. Murkowski: Welcome back to the committee. I appreciate the responses you had to senator collins, particularly as it related to challenges for early career scientists and what we do to inspire, to encourage them, to keep them here in this country.
▶ 1:26:11Sen. Murkowski: I am hopeful that the new modernization plans that you are prioritizing really, really do focus in on some of these retention matters. I think it is so important.
▶ 1:26:27Sen. Murkowski: I also want to acknowledge her question and your response as it related to women's health and the need to ensure that when we are talking about health disparities, when we are talking about those matters where we are looking at specific populations, we don't just say, well, we have to put everybody in the same
▶ 1:26:57Sen. Murkowski: Bucket. Everybody come in the rising tide lifts all ships so we will focus on everybody when in fact there are certain populations that do have health disparities that are so remarkable. Remarkable usually in a negative way. That is certainly the case for alaska natives, native hawaiians. You and I have had the conversation about this.
▶ 1:27:25Sen. Murkowski: These communities continue to experience some of the highest health disparities from lower life expectancy, high rates of chronic disease, behavioral health challenges, suicide -- particularly in the remote and rural areas.
▶ 1:27:41Sen. Murkowski: Making sure that when it comes to health research and access to care, we are evening these areas so we can really focus in on why we have these significant health disparities. You have mentioned in response to senator collins your effort when it comes to women's health. You mentioned minorities in general.
▶ 1:28:07Sen. Murkowski: Can you speak to your understanding again to the disparities as they affect alaska date of, native american communities -- alaska native, native american communities and nih's responsibility? You have a federal trust responsibility to our tribal nations. Can you put that in context?
▶ 1:28:28Dr. Bhattacharya: Thank you for the question. I've had the privilege of multi-day meetings with tribal councils to understand the challenges of doing research on this populations were with us populations I should say. You are absolutely right, the health needs are severe. High rates of diabetes, alcoholism, drug abuse, much lower life expectancy.
▶ 1:28:55Dr. Bhattacharya: I agree with you we have a special treaty obligation to help. At the same time, there's deep distrust in those communities for researchers. They don't want pinhead's scientist like me descending on them and doing research. They want community participation in research. I have been working with folks at the nih to make that happen, make that a reality.
▶ 1:29:21Dr. Bhattacharya: Where the native communities have an input in the research questions I get asked, have control over the bio samples they contribute to the research projects. I want to build that trust relationships so we can help answer the questions that would make those community health new york.
▶ 1:29:38Sen. Murkowski: I would offer some of the expertise we have in alaska and would welcome a visit for you to sit with some of these experts just about this. Let me ask about some of the vacancies that we are currently seeing within the nih. I am concerned 15 of nih's 27 institutes and centers are under some form of interim leadership. In other words, they don't have any permanent directors.
▶ 1:30:07Sen. Murkowski: It is my understanding you have not replaced these directors yet . Efforts are ongoing. At least one institute, national human genome research institute, has been operating without a director for 10 months. We get you have got to have good folks in place and I respect you are seeking that. Can you give the committee in a quick update on the process and timeline for filling some of these really important leadership roles? Dr.
▶ 1:30:34Bhattacharya: I have established a process to make sure there's excellent scientific input as a primary driver for whom I suggest take control of those agencies. We are moving as fast as we possibly can. This week I made recommendations for two of those institutes. The secretary has the final say. But he is listening to my scientific judgment. We are working as fast as we can.
▶ 1:31:01Bhattacharya: I don't want to short the process of identifying -- dozens and dozens and dozens of candidates have applied for every one of those positions. We are interviewing them, having scientific staff interviewed them. The focus is on getting professional judgment of the nih folks to help make good advice about who should be in the directorship. I agree, the leadership is terminus important.
▶ 1:31:24Chair Cassidy: Senator blunt rochester.
▶ 1:31:28Sen. Blunt Rochester: Thank you. Thank you for being here today. I want to start by saying I was really pleased to hear you as the head of the nih encourage parents to vaccinate their children for measles, especially in light of the outbreaks in texas and south carolina. Thank you. On monday, january 5, 2026, the cdc acting director jim o'neill announced an immediate and sweeping overhaul of the child and adolescent vaccine schedule.
▶ 1:31:59Sen. Blunt Rochester: After signing off on a decision memo requesting this change from you, cms administrator awes, and fda commissioner mccarty. Is that correct?
▶ 1:32:09Dr. Bhattacharya: Yes.
▶ 1:32:15Sen. Blunt Rochester: It downgrades the vaccines for all children from 17 diseases to 11. Historically, this type of decision would have been made through the public process of convening the a cip. Since this is kind of out of the norm may vary out of the norm, I wanted to ask you a few questions about the process and outcomes. First, how many fewer children are you projecting will be vaccinated due to this change?
▶ 1:32:40Dr. Bhattacharya: I expect more children will be vaccinated not fewer.
▶ 1:32:50Sen. Blunt Rochester: If you can, can you share the analysis or study that demonstrates that more children will be vaccinated?
▶ 1:32:53Dr. Bhattacharya: It is a question of public trust. I have watched --.
▶ 1:32:57Sen. Blunt Rochester: Was there a study?
▶ 1:32:59Dr. Bhattacharya: Released with this, part of the decision, the vaccination schedules, and the key idea underlying --.
▶ 1:33:10Sen. Blunt Rochester: I only have a little bit of time and I have a lot of questions. Could you share that study with us?
▶ 1:33:14Dr. Bhattacharya: I would be happy to.
▶ 1:33:18Sen. Blunt Rochester: In the analysis, how many more children will be diagnosed with meningitis or hepatitis or the flu?
▶ 1:33:23Dr. Bhattacharya: I think there will be more children vaccinated as a result of the change, not fewer.
▶ 1:33:30Sen. Blunt Rochester: Did you recommend any type of plan to measure the impact of the changes to this childhood vaccine schedule on health outcomes?
▶ 1:33:37Dr. Bhattacharya: The cdc tracks that carefully. Those measures will be released publicly.
▶ 1:33:48Sen. Blunt Rochester: We know specific vaccination rates must be met to prevent outbreaks. It seems reasonable this is something that would have or should have been evaluated before making that kind of sweeping decision. Your memo notes that the changes were made after "careful review of the current vaccine schedule, pure nation schedules, and best practices." these are couple of yes or no questions. Did you consider the unique patterns and causes of disease in each region like the U.S. versus europe?
▶ 1:34:17Dr. Bhattacharya: I'm not -- I'm not the author of that memo itself.
▶ 1:34:25Sen. Blunt Rochester: So you're not sure?
▶ 1:34:26Dr. Bhattacharya: I read it carefully. It was a careful analysis of the vaccine schedules of other countries, our pure nations. The danish schedules, scandinavian countries.
▶ 1:34:38Sen. Blunt Rochester: I'm going to get to that. In the assessment, do we look at the differences in pre-and postnatal, pediatric and primary care were considered maternity leave policies or health insurance or health care workforce?
▶ 1:34:50Dr. Bhattacharya: We consider there are differences in health care policies, absolutely. We prayed this memo. -- we. This memo did. There is a fallacy here. The idea americans have sort of different ways of accessing health care and scandinavians and in some ways the scandinavians have it easier makes it harder for americans -- if you want to have a larger vaccine schedule by -- in the context of americans having more access to health care
▶ 1:35:22Dr. Bhattacharya: Difficulties, you essentially are making parents feel guilty over things they don't have control over.
▶ 1:35:26Sen. Blunt Rochester: It was strange to me we are comparing ourselves to denmark as a pure nation. Denmark has 6 million people and we have 340 million people from all walks of life. That is like 57 terms larger. Denmark has socialized medicine and universal health care. The U.S. does not. Parents and denmark are entitled to paid parental leave and the U.S. this is not guaranteed.
▶ 1:35:47Sen. Blunt Rochester: I'm trying to understand the comparison of denmark to the united states with the exception that they have one of the lowest recommended vaccine rate -- vaccines.
▶ 1:35:58Dr. Bhattacharya: And denmark, they have strong public trust in public health. That is what we are trying to do , reestablish the public trust. The vaccination rates -- there's a ton of literature on this. The vaccination rate responds sensitively to the level of public trust.
▶ 1:36:15Sen. Blunt Rochester: I agree on the public trust piece. I think that is what is concerning me is that instead of modernizing, we are going backwards in time when we did not even have vaccines. To me it is important we be really clear about science. I look forward --
▶ 1:36:33Chair Cassidy: I'm going to combine -- I'll take my time now. I'll combine the conversation with murkowski and blunt rochester. There are sections of our country that look like denmark in which a highly educated folks who have easy access to vaccinations. But the diversity murkowski was speaking about, you agreed with, there are areas in our country where that is not the case.
▶ 1:37:01Chair Cassidy: In those that have put together vaccine schedules in the united states take into account the behaviors of different types of patients. Again, if you are wealthy from boston, you're going to have one experience. If you are less wealthy, if you are poor from a rural town in louisiana, you're going to have another. If we pattern after the place that is wealthy, we are not meeting the needs of those who are poor.
▶ 1:37:30Chair Cassidy: So I have to admit, I was a little bit kind of like, what? We are like denmark? I was just like, that's a crazy idea.
▶ 1:37:39Dr. Bhattacharya: I guess the way I'm thinking about it, a place like louisiana and others where there is more distrust of the public --.
▶ 1:37:50Chair Cassidy: You mention, and I thought this was positive, you had found the stereotype of the secretary being an open to new ideas. Have you discussed vaccines and autism with her?
▶ 1:38:00Dr. Bhattacharya: Yes.
▶ 1:38:02Chair Cassidy: Did he change his ideas?
▶ 1:38:05Dr. Bhattacharya: You had to ask him.
▶ 1:38:07Chair Cassidy: I've discussed it and he has not. I say that because at some point, I agree with blunt rochester on this, at some point, there's a wonderful scripture about how the clear note sounds. If the clear note is, yes you can trust, and to credit to the secretary after two kids died in west texas for measles vaccine preventable disease, clear note finally went out. You should get vaccinated.
▶ 1:38:36Chair Cassidy: My fear is that we are going to have children losing fingers and legs and noses because now we don't vaccinate routinely for it. Rare but highly consequential. This is dangerous. I am afraid that cacophony of notes is going to further undermine trust. Do not see that?
▶ 1:39:01Dr. Bhattacharya: I guess I think of it differently. We have to reestablish trust, absolutely. I share your goal entirely. The question is the method of reestablishing trust. I think if you just double down on what we have previously done that led to the loss of trust, we not going to change it.
▶ 1:39:21Chair Cassidy: We were both professors and we know it may seem lofty but education is the way you address -- now have a measles outbreak among those who did not trust. Is it to further cast doubt upon the measles vaccine that is saying the mmr should be divided into three doses -- for no scientific reasons. To increase the number of shots a child has to take.
▶ 1:39:49Chair Cassidy: I mean, that is not going to increase trust. That would decrease immunization rates.
▶ 1:39:58Dr. Bhattacharya: I don't think that is true. I think the key thing about the danish experience is that establishment of public trust.
▶ 1:40:07Chair Cassidy: That is because it is a club, not a country. You go to denmark, it is like going to the qantas club. Everybody knows each other. They all look alike. You know what I'm saying?
▶ 1:40:21Dr. Bhattacharya: I know several danish people and they're very different from each other. I don't want to stereotype. I think the key thing is, how do we reestablish trust?
▶ 1:40:32Chair Cassidy: I think a clear note. If you keep on telling people permutation is false, they don't know who to believe. Let me move on to something else and I may have a second round since I'm here till the end. I want to quickly develop, you and I spoke to this on the phone, there are researchers in every state in the station that if they had access to that wonderful equipment and those resources at nih, they could achieve their goal of helping our country get healthy.
▶ 1:41:04Chair Cassidy: Please elaborate on your ideas and the things we discussed of had that can become a possibility.
▶ 1:41:08Dr. Bhattacharya: The nih is divided into two parts. The internal program and external program. Internal, what habits and bethesda and montana and other places where nh employees, scientists themselves to research. External is the scientist we support across the country and elsewhere.
▶ 1:41:28Dr. Bhattacharya: I want come as you do -- I know -- I want to make sure we have collaboration that the internal program serves as a resource for scientists all across the country. We have some great examples of that. The center for alzheimer's research, there are people -- scientists can use resources at the nih that otherwise would not have access to, especially the places universities don't have those facilities.
▶ 1:41:55Dr. Bhattacharya: There is the repurposed drugs program where they can participate. I think this is such a great idea. I would love to work with you on making that more extensive across nih.
▶ 1:42:08Chair Cassidy: Now we will go to senator alsobrooks.
▶ 1:42:14Sen. Alsobrooks: Thank you. We are sitting here, almost exactly a year since this committee's nomination hearing for secretary kennedy when he asserted to both this committee and to me given that he was neither scientist nor researcher or doctor and in my opinion it was wholly unqualified, that he would not substitute his uneducated judgment for science.
▶ 1:42:37Sen. Alsobrooks: Since then, secretary community has made it his mission to weaponize science by slashing and delaying billions of dollars of critical grant funding, settling old scores by getting research based on his personal views. Dr. bhattacharya, you seemed no different but much of this has happened on your watch. The nih under your leadership has canceled hundreds, over 383 clinical trials impacting well over 74,000 patients.
▶ 1:43:08Sen. Alsobrooks: This administration delayed thousands more because of politics held up by doge or other political appointees. One in particular, the funding cut in this interruption was not just on "woke" study, but I am the daughter of a parent with alzheimer's. I am very concerned and particularly concerned with alzheimer's and dementia funding that this administration has recklessly delayed.
▶ 1:43:35Sen. Alsobrooks: Many americans understand, like I do, so many families, just how precious time is for these patients and their loved ones in the battle against this unforgiving disease. One child delayed for over 205 days was a clinical trial of a brief anxiety intervention for mild cognitive impairment in mild alzheimer's disease in their care providers. This trial wasn't in a blue state, it was at florida state university. Dr.
▶ 1:44:03Sen. Alsobrooks: Bhattacharya, why is this trial not a good use of taxpayer dollars or in line with this administration's agenda? Why was it delayed for over six months?
▶ 1:44:14Dr. Bhattacharya: I would have to look at the specifics but generally on alzheimer's, there were supplements that were not actually directly linked to the study themselves. Those were the subject of our revisions.
▶ 1:44:30Sen. Alsobrooks: But you're not familiar with this one. Let me give you another. Another child delayed for over 200 days to the hebrew rehabilitation center for the aged in massachusetts was entitled trial to reduce antimicrobial use in nursing homes you said a moment ago that antimicrobial is very important. With alzheimer's disease and other dementias.
▶ 1:44:59Sen. Alsobrooks: This trial was attempting to lowered the rates of urinary tract infections of patients with alzheimer's and dementia. This trial, again, why was it not a good use of taxpayer dollars in line with this administration's agenda?
▶ 1:45:12Dr. Bhattacharya: Can I say one thing? I've heard so many numbers of trials we supposedly have canceled. Ultimately, what we did is we renegotiated the trials. My estimate I'm hearing for my folks is that only a dozen or so trials were actually terminated. Most every single every -- another one of those focused or depoliticize them and focus them on the actual science.
▶ 1:45:39Sen. Alsobrooks: There nothing political about alzheimer's.
▶ 1:45:43Dr. Bhattacharya: Supplements to these trials that were political. We renegotiated --.
▶ 1:45:50Sen. Alsobrooks: I have such little time. Early clinical development of modified pa the treatment of alzheimer's disease understanding the mechanisms linking small vessel vascular disease and alzheimer's disease -- these were delayed for months by this administration. There's nothing political about these particular studies. I disagree with you. There were not 12 canceled, there were 383 or so that were canceled.
▶ 1:46:15Dr. Bhattacharya: That is the key point. We renegotiated --.
▶ 1:46:22Sen. Alsobrooks: Some were restored as a result of a lawsuit. Let's be honest about that. The courts had to force.
▶ 1:46:27Dr. Bhattacharya: I don't want to disrupt essential science. I've made sure that when we do the renegotiation, we rescue the essential science and remove the politicization. Sup alsobrooks except secretary kennedy.
▶ 1:46:42Dr. Bhattacharya: Making sure the researchers are focused on the scientific questions, not on politics.
▶ 1:46:50Sen. Alsobrooks: I don't think secretary kennedy agrees with you and as a result of his disastrous decisions, what we know is that so many of our families are now waiting --.
▶ 1:46:59Dr. Bhattacharya: He wants the research.
▶ 1:47:04Sen. Alsobrooks: The facts don't lie. 383 trials canceled, seven for example --.
▶ 1:47:07Dr. Bhattacharya: The estimates I'm hearing from my folks is a dozen, ultimately it does not 383 we had -- not 383. They were paused but restored.
▶ 1:47:20Sen. Alsobrooks: Again, I think these are -- there are so many. Terminated by indiana, terminated by this administration. These were not restored. The ones I mentioned have not been in it has been disastrous of that reason. I yelled my time.
▶ 1:47:36Chair Cassidy: Senator hawley.
▶ 1:47:41Sen. Hawley: Thank you. Welcome. Two topics, I want to start on the question of public trust. We were talking about it earlier. Public health. One of the things so badly undermined in nih and I think you addressed this for your confirmation hearing, the work nih did and funded at the wuhan institute of virology for coronavirus function research and lied about it for two years or more.
▶ 1:48:08Sen. Hawley: Nih denied there had been any funding whatsoever it had done in wuhan and ultimately had to admit after public reporting that indeed there had been gain of function research with nih money to equal health alliance that had gone to wuhan. My question is, as he nih done under leadership now a thorough review of all of the grants or other funding streams that may have gone not only to wuhan but to other labs in china?
▶ 1:48:37Sen. Hawley: Do we have a handle now on what nih was doing over the last decade plus in funding? I think this is so important because we were misled. The american people were misled and lied to and those of us who said, wait a minute, we think there's a funding stream, we were called conspiracy theorist, cooks, crazies. It turns out it was 100% correct. Has nih done a review of what funding streams have gone to wuhan and other labs?
▶ 1:49:01Dr. Bhattacharya: I've been focused primarily on making sure we don't currently have or in the future have so put in policy to have better oversight of foreign collaborations. I worked hard on the -- we paused 40 grants that have some potential risk of dangerous functions and put in place so that never happens again. To me that is the most important thing. We cannot do it again. I am working on the review. It is a long review.
▶ 1:49:27Dr. Bhattacharya: I would love to work with congress. It is something other parts of the administration are also interested in. It is a complex history that doesn't just involve the nih. It involves foreign partners. It is something we really should do. I can't tell you --.
▶ 1:49:51Sen. Hawley: It is important we level the american people, that there is transparency come that would correct the record and say, here is what your government did with your tax money? Maybe it will be little. Maybe there won't be much beyond what went to wuhan. Maybe this more than that. Whatever it is, I think the public deserves to know. Frankly, having been misled -- this body was misled.
▶ 1:50:15Sen. Hawley: Certainly the homeland security committee was misled for the better part of two years when we were told over and over and over and over no tax money ever went to wuhan. No gain of function research. That was a lie. From the leaders of nih at the time.
▶ 1:50:29Sen. Hawley: I think those lies need to be corrected and the facts, all of the facts, however sordid and unpleasant they may be for the institution, need to come out of the public and say, ok, we cleaned house, we have some confidence in what our own government is doing with our tax money. Don't you agree?
▶ 1:50:46Dr. Bhattacharya: I agree. After a patient dies in hospital, there's often a conference, and honest conversation of what went wrong. I think the united states desperately needs that.
▶ 1:50:59Sen. Hawley: Will you make that a priority in your time at nih?
▶ 1:51:01Dr. Bhattacharya: Happy to collaborate with you and others.
▶ 1:51:06Sen. Hawley: I think it is vital. Let me switch topics and ask about the health of america's children. I am wondering how closely you've looked at the effect of social media, big tech social media and ai on children's health? I submit this is increasingly becoming a public health crisis.
▶ 1:51:25Sen. Hawley: I have heard from parents who have testified before me and other committees I chair that their children have been led to experiment with suicide and ultimately self harm and ultimately in many instances, sadly, carry out plans for suicide at the behest of ai chatbots. The data on social media and children's mental health, children's physical health is astounding.
▶ 1:51:51Sen. Hawley: Is nih studying the effects of social media, including ai-driven social media, children? Are you looking at that from a health perspective?
▶ 1:51:58Dr. Bhattacharya: I've seen this reports. As a parent, tremendously concerning. The national institute for children help develop and has a program on this, specifically ai and suicide I would have to look to see. That is the focus to make sure our children grow up in a country where they are not exposed those kinds of dangers. We will have excellent signs on that. If we don't already come I will make sure we focus on it.
▶ 1:52:29Sen. Hawley: We desperately need scientific focus on it. We need good data. As a parent with three children of my own, but small children, when I talk to my fellow parents a look at the numbers, 84% of parents say they were very concerned or at least somewhat concerned about the effects of social media on their children.
▶ 1:52:46Sen. Hawley: When you talk to parents who have had chatbots urge their children to harm themselves, harm family members, harm parents or heaven forbid take their own lives, this is a crisis. It is not an isolated crisis. It is a systemic crisis at every school and I daresay almost every home across america. I think we need to have a comprehensive look from a data perspective and science perspective of what this is doing to our children so we can figure out what we're going to do to protect kids and parents.
▶ 1:53:15Dr. Bhattacharya: I agree.
▶ 1:53:17Chair Cassidy: I think I see an rfp coming. Last night there was mardi gras in st. Louis. We go to the woman wearing the mardi gras jacket. Senator mullin.
▶ 1:53:37Sen. Mullin: Good morning. Yes, it is still morning. Last year director vote directed nih to significantly change the way it funds grants by requiring half of all its research project grants to be multiyear funded. This would be a seismic shift with devastating consequences for research with no benefit whatsoever.
▶ 1:54:05Sen. Mullin: Implementing this change would mean thousands fewer grants for lifesaving research, fewer clinical trials to discover new treatments and cures for disease. And ultimately, less hope for families who are pleading with us for help. Dr.
▶ 1:54:20Sen. Mullin: Bhattacharya, I'm struggling to understand how increasing the use of multiyear funding was anything but a setback for nih research and how many -- very specific question, how many fewer grants did nih fund as a result of this policy last fiscal year?
▶ 1:54:42Dr. Bhattacharya: Normally, the nih funds about 20% of our portfolio was multiyear funded before 2020. It sometimes makes scientific sense -- princes --.
▶ 1:54:58Sen. Mullin: 's I don't want an analysis, I want understand how fewer grants were funded as a result of this policy shift ordered by omb last year?
▶ 1:55:07Dr. Bhattacharya: I don't have an answer.
▶ 1:55:13Sen. Mullin: I do. The answer is nih awarded 2000 fewer grants last year because of this policy.
▶ 1:55:18Dr. Bhattacharya: Not the policy, necessarily.
▶ 1:55:22Sen. Mullin: It is. That is 2000 and fewer opportunities for breakthroughs, etc. The good news is congress just rejected that harmful proposal. As the ranking member of the labor health and human services appropriations subcommittee, I fought to get a provision to prevent the administration from implementing russ vought's multiyear funding scheme including -- it is included in the labor hhs bill.
▶ 1:55:51Sen. Mullin: I am relieved we were able to do the same or do that in the build that pass the senate last week. This was common sense and we should not have had to have it come to that.
▶ 1:56:02Dr. Bhattacharya: I appreciate the build that --.
▶ 1:56:10Sen. Mullin: 's decision seven leftist science leftist scienctists. In an agency of over 2000 and plays come historically only two have been political appointees. But that has changed under your leadership. As of last july, there were 10 political appointees at nih. Many of whom replaced career civil servants who served decades in those positions.
▶ 1:56:42Sen. Mullin: How many political appointees are there currently at nih and why do you need so many?
▶ 1:56:46Dr. Bhattacharya: You say 10, I'll take your word.
▶ 1:56:51Sen. Mullin: Ok.
▶ 1:56:51Dr. Bhattacharya: Can answer the question about the need? The key thing to me is to make sure the grant reviews that we do not political. As you said --
▶ 1:57:03Sen. Mullin: 's having five times as many political appointees before xm less political? I'm not sure I understand that. I also want to move on with a minute and 15 seconds left that I share senator murkowski's alarm about the number of nih institute and center director vacancies. They have left a serious vacuum in critical leadership positions.
▶ 1:57:30Sen. Mullin: By my count, there are currently 14 institute director positions that are vacant. Is that correct?
▶ 1:57:36Dr. Bhattacharya: I think it is 15.
▶ 1:57:39Sen. Mullin: 's ok. In one year, this administration has fired or pushed out 12 nih institute directors. Nearly half of the agency's leadership. On top of this, chaos and tumult, have changed the process for finding and recruiting the best and brightest leaders to fill these critical director positions. Dr.
▶ 1:58:04Sen. Mullin: Bhattacharya, is it true you ended the long-standing practice of including external scientists as part of institute director search committees?
▶ 1:58:16Dr. Bhattacharya: I've been working very hard --.
▶ 1:58:21Sen. Mullin: Is it true you ended up long-standing practice?
▶ 1:58:24Dr. Bhattacharya: We have changed the process so that there is no formal committee because if we don't have time for that read what we have done instead is informally reached out to external partners but we have also made sure scientists at the nih are the ones that are leading the selection of the new leaders. Some of the positions, hundreds of people have applied.
▶ 1:58:50Sen. Mullin: I want to remind you the final fiscal year 2026 labor hhs bill that passed the senate last week requires all institute director search committees to include external scientists and stakeholders with relevant experience. I'm glad my republican colleagues in both chambers agreed to making sure that nih institute directors are the best qualified leaders in their field.
▶ 1:59:18Dr. Bhattacharya: I sure that commitment.
▶ 1:59:20Chair Cassidy: Sen. markey.
▶ 1:59:26Sen. Markey: I was able to include the $15 million for the research on social media impact on children two years ago. We've got the money. Please complete the study. I would like to begin with a straightforward question, since you are confirmed as director, have any clinical trials that disrupted or stopped because of cuts to nih grant funding?
▶ 1:59:49Dr. Bhattacharya: There were no cuts to funding but there were disruptions last year in some clinical trials.
▶ 1:59:56Sen. Markey: But there disruptions.
▶ 1:59:59Dr. Bhattacharya: To some clinical trials.
▶ 2:00:02Sen. Markey: Ok.
▶ 2:00:04Dr. Bhattacharya: Roughly a dozen.
▶ 2:00:07Sen. Markey: Robert f. Kennedy, jr. Said in october, no clinical trials have been stopped. You agree with that?
▶ 2:00:16Dr. Bhattacharya: I would have to see what secretary kennedy said.
▶ 2:00:21Sen. Markey: He said no clinical trials have been stopped.
▶ 2:00:24Dr. Bhattacharya: We made for the clinical troughs that were disrupted were renegotiated so they were focused on the science and not on the political aspects.
▶ 2:00:33Sen. Markey: Well --.
▶ 2:00:36Dr. Bhattacharya: We made sure when there was a disruption, the investigators had the resources to make sure they had continuity of care.
▶ 2:00:51Sen. Markey: We now have proof these trials have been stopped. In january, governor haley wrote to rfk, jr. With evidence backed up by a jama study showing 383 clinical trials lost nih funding between february and august of 2025.
▶ 2:01:15Sen. Markey: Affecting more than 74,000 patients nationwide including 18 trials affecting 13,000 patients in massachusetts alone. I had these letters I would like to submit to the record, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:01:27Chair Cassidy: Without objection.
▶ 2:01:30Sen. Markey: This is the jama study for the record and the governor's letter. At your company patient hearing in march, that show your confirmation hearing in march, said he would commit to supporting research that advances the health of the american people.
▶ 2:01:47Sen. Markey: Are you saying none of these dearly 400 clinical trials, including 118 cancer trials, 97 infectious disease trials, 47 mental health trials advanced to health?
▶ 2:02:01Dr. Bhattacharya: That number, 383, I read that jama study. I am saying that number is based -- is not reality. The reality is that something like a dozen clinical trials, estimates we have seen, actually work terminated, primarily because they were focused on political aims and not advancing health.
▶ 2:02:26Sen. Markey: You are saying the jama study is wrong. It is inaccurate?
▶ 2:02:29Dr. Bhattacharya: Inaccurate. They did not take into the fact we renegotiated -- removing the political component of the trial, to focus more on the health component.
▶ 2:02:42Sen. Markey: How many trials are you saying?
▶ 2:02:44Dr. Bhattacharya: We're working on the numbers but the per limiter I've heard something around a dozen. Many of them were basic experiment all studies, not actual clinical trials. The 383 number I think is just based on an accurate list.
▶ 2:03:00Sen. Markey: That is not the number we have developed massachusetts and not the jama number either. We are in a huge dispute with you on that. One of the pillars of your new priorities for nih is to focus on training future positions and scientists and everything we have seen from nih contradicts this.
▶ 2:03:21Sen. Markey: A doctor from lowell told me how nih ran cuts have forced his project company to cancel student fellowships, layoff 12 employees come and cause junior scientists to leave the profession entirely. I can't help but agree with his conclusion that "under your leadership, we are witnessing the sunset of american scientific preeminence." I request consent to submit the testimony from Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:03:49Chair Cassidy: Without objection.
▶ 2:03:53Sen. Markey: I heard from a researcher at northeastern university whose lab has done mental health research for over 16 years. Nih cuts have forced trileptal layout research staff. They do not even have enough money to fund their doctoral students research through graduation.
▶ 2:04:09Sen. Markey: Back in december, you mess school chancellor -- umass told you, "we could lose a whole generation of scientists and will take a couple of generations to build a back." the chinese right now are absolutely lethal -- gleeful that we are doing this to ourselves. It is in a historic mistake we are making.
▶ 2:04:35Sen. Markey: How does cutting active research advance nih's mission to support future researchers?
▶ 2:04:40Dr. Bhattacharya: We did not cut any funding. We spent the entire allocation that congress gave 2025. As I said earlier, the united states remains the single best place in the country, in the world to do biomedical research.
▶ 2:05:02Chair Cassidy: I will wrap up here. First I will submit for the record a letter from keith yamamoto issues in science and technology and a question for the record regarding the better way to evaluate research results, reproducibility. Everybody agrees who still here? Secondly, have done a great job resenting yourself.
▶ 2:05:29Chair Cassidy: Let's finish on a really positive note because there is a lot of positive things that you have been doing. We speak about the 21st century cures act and the all of us program, allowing scientists, american scientists to leverage the power of genomics and new data. You have taken steps to improve access to these data sets from across nih -- not silos, from across -- can you elaborate on that and tells your vision for improving further access to these samples?
▶ 2:05:58Dr. Bhattacharya: Incredible centers.
▶ 2:06:02Chair Cassidy: Tell people what it is.
▶ 2:06:04Dr. Bhattacharya: A million genomes. The genome project, one genome or a couple of genomes, we have a million people's genomes and we are going to expand that.
▶ 2:06:14Chair Cassidy: All walks of life genetics.
▶ 2:06:18Dr. Bhattacharya: Representative of every aspect of america. We have been working to make sure many, many scientists have access to these data. I think estimates I saw 21,000 scientists now have access to these.
▶ 2:06:33Chair Cassidy: 21,000 scientists to have access to it.
▶ 2:06:37Dr. Bhattacharya: 21,000 projects. An example, one project, using the human genome to better predict whether you are at risk of heart disease. That would be a big advance, especially as these genome sequencing technology becomes much more cheaper and widely available. We can use it to prevent heart disease at scale. I'm very excited by this.
▶ 2:07:05Chair Cassidy: Reasonably speaking, we opened up by speaking about the person who is desperate with his or her cancer, watching for help. This is our project which were spreading information across scientists that can give them greater hope that we will find a cure.
▶ 2:07:21Dr. Bhattacharya: For cancer, it is potentially the future. Genetic characterization of cancer, personalized cancer treatment. Moving away from very toxic chemotherapies and instead toward immunotherapy specifically tabor -- tailored for your cancer.
▶ 2:07:41Chair Cassidy: One more thing, telling people what you're doing that is good. You told me about your allowing scientists from across the nation to have access to allow a cancer type to be tested against different drugs. Could you elaborate?
▶ 2:07:58Dr. Bhattacharya: There's a project that essentially we have 3000 small molecules, including a missed every single drug approved by the fda. In a researcher in the country can offer up a tissue sample of the cancer they are studying or whatever and see if any of those drugs have any action against that cancer or modify the disease. It is her tremendous program.
▶ 2:08:28Dr. Bhattacharya: It allows researchers anywhere to take advantage of the research we have at the nih almost unparalleled anywhere else.
▶ 2:08:35Chair Cassidy: The person watching can trust a person is testing his or her rear cancer against this however many drugs there are to see if there's anything that will benefit? -- her rare cancer against this however many drugs there are to see if there's anything that will benefit?
▶ 2:08:51Dr. Bhattacharya: At the drugs are off patent or generic, if they work and off patent, essentially, low cost treatment for it. That is the nih way of addressing it.
▶ 2:09:04Chair Cassidy: Great. Bring senator wishing to ask additional questions, due by february 18 5:00 p.m. The committee stands adjourned.