▶ 0:16:31>> good afternoon. The committee will come to order. We welcome our witnesses who are here to hear the testimony. I look forward to senator blumenthal joining us shortly. He is on his way. I am excited about this hearing and the time of this hearing in advance of the olympics and paralympics. I am glad that we are on this path.
▶ 0:17:08These unique events are designed to foster independence and strengthen community involvement and improve the overall quality of life. Through direct programming and grants and's titans, our country provides veterans recovery from injury as they build new strengths, compete estimates and a new community, and engage in healthy living through rehabilitation events.
▶ 0:17:45We see that in the adapting sporting events. As part of team usa. As the winter olympics approach, I want to wish team usa, especially the veteran athletes, every success as they compete. Their dedication and perseverance inspire americans and inspire the world and inspire other veterans. We are proud to cheer them on.
▶ 0:18:16Today we are honored to welcome athletes who will share their journeys on how sports helps them on their path. I look forward to hearing about how these opportunities are available to all veterans.
▶ 0:18:50I will introduce the witnesses and we will proceed testifying on this panel. He is the director of pickle ball and a sports ambassador. Elizabeth smith is a U.S. navy aviation maintenance administration retired. And the legislative director for paralyzed veterans of america.
▶ 0:19:19I would also like to acknowledge a medalists and current team member. He could not join us today because of an injury he has recently sustained. We wish him a very speedy recovery. We thank all of you for being here. Let me give senator blumenthal a moment to turn the page and then I recognize him.
▶ 0:19:52Thank you. I analogize that apologize for our -- my lateness. I went to another hearing room. I think the chairman for having this very important hearing. Adaptive sports can change lives. Your hard work is really impressive.
▶ 0:20:32I thank you for delivering this irreplaceable service. To our veterans. I look forward to hearing and learning more. I want to thank the adaptive sports association. I have heard veterans in my home state speak about the life changing experiences that come from these organizations.
▶ 0:21:01One veteran said to me that when I came back from iraq, I was a mess. I had issues with my family. I felt like I no longer had a mission in life and everything was in shambles. I had a friend attend the veteran's sporting event. It helped me get out of my head. I have regularly attended various programs since then.
▶ 0:21:33I think those organizations and I thank you for being here today. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:21:39Sen. Moran: All of you will be recognized for your testimony. Please proceed.
▶ 0:21:46Mr. George: Good evening. My name is gabriel george. I honorably served the world's greatest navy. Unfortunately I was involved in a motorcycle accident that left wheat with multiple traumatic brain injuries and a paralyzed right arm. I lived with my pain without a real purpose for about 10 years.
▶ 0:22:18Mr. George: Until I was asked to come out to a summer sports clinic in san diego. My first question was, how can I do this. I'm in so much pain. But I said, I will do it. That was the best answer I could've said in my life. I was introduced to multiple sports that changed my life forever. They showed me archery and I was waiting for everyone to shoot. I said that's cool but how will I be able to do this?
▶ 0:22:49Mr. George: One person reached in his pocket and pulled out a string and tied it around and said to do that. I trusted him. This was something I could do. The more I kept doing it, others were saying that the da had a -- va program. I thought I can feed my family with this. I can do something. I learned different sports.
▶ 0:23:19Mr. George: Pickle ball was one of them. I met other archers. I met a paralympic archer who took me under his wings and showed me the ropes. That led me to doing the warrior games. Where I continue to meet other veterans. More more people who were living in pain but were using this adaptive sports for a purpose in their life to keep going.
▶ 0:23:53Mr. George: I fell in love with pickle ball. I thought I could play it for hours. When people saw the joy of me playing this game, they asked, what is this? I met a man who had a foundation that was teaching veterans racquetball. He applied for a grant and they approved it. He called me and said I need your help. This was about eight years ago.
▶ 0:24:25Mr. George: Since then I have been volunteering my service teaching veterans all across this country pickle ball, racquetball, table tennis. I get to share my love and passion with others I have seen who have been suffering and didn't have any purpose. Who were given a purpose through adaptive sports. I love what the v.a. Offers. The programs have been a big help.
▶ 0:24:55Mr. George: Once we get hooked on trying to find life again, finances become an issue. There are small grants but there are a mess of veterans who want to get off the couch and find their purpose. That is why I'm adept -- happy for this adaptive sports grant to fund these things. There is a need for others to be able to reach out. We find thousands of veterans.
▶ 0:25:23Mr. George: This year with this grant so far in the first quarter we have already reached over 800 veterans. We are trying keep that going on monthly throughout the country. Thank you. I see the need that has continued. What is next? How do I keep this going? How do I share this with other family members? Other organizations to golf for veterans but they have struggles getting funding.
▶ 0:25:54Mr. George: It takes a multitude of people to run some of these things. Even with us I have spent some more hours working and doing paperwork than on the court try to help everyone. That is a limitation we are always trying to get over. I love what I do. Competing was fun. I love to the attention of the activity but my passion now is teaching and sharing his love with others. The veterans who came before me.
▶ 0:26:25Mr. George: When I meet a veteran from multiple wars before me I tell him you can play pickle ball. Now they are coming to get their benefits. What other things can they help with. I thank you for this time and thank you for hearing me.
▶ 0:26:44Sen. Moran: We appreciate that. You are the highlight of my day so far. It is a joy to have you here. I am happy to have the right where you are telling me how to change a life.
▶ 0:27:05Ms. Smith: Good afternoon to the distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for inviting me here today. My name is elizabeth smith. Adaptive sports change my life. In 2017 while stationed aboard a navy ship, I was diagnosed with a fast-growing cancer of the brain.
▶ 0:27:34Ms. Smith: I am incredibly fortunate that chemotherapy was successful. But it came at a cost. When my treatment ended, I did not feel like myself anymore. I had lost my identity. When I found out that I was being medically retired, the reality that I would never serve my country the way I once trained left me feeling like a shell of a human being.
▶ 0:28:03Ms. Smith: During that time my nonmedical case manager and my mother who is here with me today refused to let me give up on myself. They insisted that I tried an adaptive sports camp even though I thought it would do nothing to help me. I could not move the way I wanted to. I struggled to hear what was going on around me and I felt like I was failing at everything I tried.
▶ 0:28:31Ms. Smith: Then they took me back in the pool. Suddenly I was swimming the way I used to when I competed in high school. In that moment I felt a spark of hope returned. Something I thought was gone forever. That spark only grew. Before long, I was participating in events and eventually wheelchair rugby, which became especially meaningful to me.
▶ 0:29:04Ms. Smith: Through adaptive sports I slowly rebuild myself. I gained confidence, reconnected with others, and for the first time since my diagnosis, I felt like I had a purpose again. When I was no longer eligible to compete through that program, I could feel myself slipping back into the same dark place I have fought to get out of.
▶ 0:29:26Ms. Smith: I went to my mental health provider to ask how I could get involved in the adaptive sports and arts program, something I had heard other veterans speaking about. I was told it would be difficult for me to get an appointment because I was that training to compete at a high level. I was simply trying to stay healthy. That is when organizations like the wounded warrior project fund stepped in.
▶ 0:29:56Ms. Smith: They did not do is fill a gap, they carry me forward. They supported my physical and mental health and connectivity with local nonprofits like anyways to stay active and involved in my local community. I have not had much direct success with these programs. But the grants that they give community organizations have made a big difference in my life. I adapt.
▶ 0:30:27Ms. Smith: At a center that has equine therapy at no cost for veterans. It gives me a place to show up and connect with others and feel like I belong. It may not sound like much, just a few hours a week practicing a sport or hanging out with horses. But those are the powers that matter the most. When my pain fades into the background.
▶ 0:30:56Ms. Smith: When relationships are built and when veterans can feel proud of what they are capable of. It reminds us that we still have value and a purpose. When I spoke with some of the legislative debates about what I should share today, one question or one thing about the program really stuck out. If I had a magic wand to change one thing about the adaptive sports and arts program, what would be?
▶ 0:31:27Ms. Smith: My question was quite simple -- answer was quite simple, make adaptive sports accessible to all veterans, not just those who live near major facilities. Giving the smaller clinics the ability to host group workouts and informative sessions would streamline their ability to communicate openly about the program.
▶ 0:31:53Ms. Smith: In open a dialogue about what is provided, who qualifies, and what other options might be potentially helpful. When we make adaptive sports and fitness a priority, we do more than promote physical health. We give disabled veterans a safe place to put their guard down and share resources and rediscover joy.
▶ 0:32:15Ms. Smith: No matter where veteran lives or what equipment they need or the level at which they compete, every eligible veteran deserves equal access to these opportunities and the chance to live an active, purposeful life. Through committees like this you have an opportunity to not just focus on the health of veterans but their well-being as a whole individual.
▶ 0:32:37Ms. Smith: It is my dream that every veteran has access and support and opportunity that they deserve. Thank you so much and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:32:49Sen. Moran: Thank you for sharing your dream and showing us the purpose in your life. And helping make those dreams come true for others.
▶ 0:33:04Ms. Howell: We appreciate the opportunity to testify today. Most of my remarks will focus on the bills in my written testimony. I want to take a minute to stress the importance of adaptive sports. We are proud of our role in the evolution of adaptive sports and we are continually working to bring recreation opportunities to members across the country.
▶ 0:33:35Ms. Howell: Our program is truly unique and the impact it had on the health and well-being of veterans cannot be overstated. We will host 30 adaptive sporting opportunities from california to maine. The wheelchair rugby invitational just wrapped up this past weekend. We have wheelchair basketball camps and others.
▶ 0:34:01Ms. Howell: We are also hosting an outdoor recreation experience in several locations across the country. Our calendar culminates this summer with the wheelchair games in detroit. For the past 41 years we have partnered with the va to host the largest gathering of wheelchair athletes in the country. It is difficult to describe how impactful adaptive sports can be . That is why I am happy my colleagues are here to share their experiences.
▶ 0:34:31Ms. Howell: For members to participate, they not only improve their cardiovascular health and increase their strength and ability and endurance but all of those things coalesce and lead to more healthy ended up. I would now like to turn my attention to a few pieces of pending legislation.
▶ 0:34:56Ms. Howell: First is the automotive support services to improve safe transportation act which would give a fix to the auto improvement act. That bill authorized a second automobile grant to eligible veterans. For catastrophically disabled veterans.
▶ 0:35:22Ms. Howell: It inadvertently restricted access to only the specific items listed in the legislation, which is not the intent of congress. This act would allow the v-8 to make sure veterans get necessary modifications to lead more independent lives. Next I would like to discuss a bill on the autonomy for veterans. This would authorize an increase to the grant program.
▶ 0:35:53Ms. Howell: These rates have not been increased since 2010 despite the rising cost of construction. This would raise amounts. For nonservice connected veterans were still enrolled. For veterans to be successful and lead independent lives, they need to have a safe and accessible home and it is long past due for congress to increase these rates.
▶ 0:36:20Ms. Howell: Another bill is the veteran supporting prosthetics opportunities in recreation therapy. Without access to these prosthetics and devices, veterans may struggle and face even more barriers when trying to engage in adaptive sports. This would remove the need for special authorizations for veterans to receive an adaptive device. While also removing a bureaucratic barrier that disabled veterans face.
▶ 0:36:53Ms. Howell: Finally I would like to call your attention to a public service announcement launched this week. It follows members as they turned the skills gained in adaptive sports into everyday independence. These videos highlight how adaptive sports are more than fitness. They can be a powerful tool. What looks like training is actually transformation. Improved access to adaptive sports can do just that.
▶ 0:37:26Ms. Howell: Thank you again for the opportunity to share with the committee. With the upcoming winter olympics and paralympics, we are glad to help elevate the importance of disabled veterans. Adaptive sports can empower veterans and inspire communities . Thank you again for the opportunity.
▶ 0:37:47Sen. Moran: Thank you for your testimony and for the role that paralyzed veterans of america plays on advocating for veterans. I will ask a couple of questions. I am particularly interested, you talked about the lack of opportunities for people who do
▶ 0:38:17Sen. Moran: Not live in a city. Tell me about that. What have you seen or observed and how could it be fixed?
▶ 0:38:30Ms. Smith: The appointment I went to was in buffalo, new york. You hear people who come from san antonio and other major areas. I came from denver and there was a huge push for adaptive sports there. When I went to buffalo, I was expecting to be met with yes, let's do this.
▶ 0:38:59Ms. Smith: Let's get you in a chair playing sports. But instead I was told that I was not going to get an appointment because I was not trying to be a paralympian. I was not getting a grant for anything. Instead they said you can be served by outside organizations. I'm so glad there were the navy wounded warrior program. I am so grateful for the wounded warrior program.
▶ 0:39:30Ms. Smith: But at the end of the day it is not the responsibility to carry us forward. It is another way to carry. That is something to be eight should step up and take care of. But we are saying go out to the community and find a way. But there was no help. There was no let's get you connected. Here is a place to start. There was shot down and it felt like they were almost saying you are not hurt enough. You are not sick enough.
▶ 0:40:02Ms. Smith: When you are already going through that mental space of I am not enough because I can no longer serve my community and my country the way I wanted to, I am not enough because I don't fit this organization. It was extremely difficult to see online my friends who lived in texas and california and all of these places getting camps and going to work out doing clinics in all this other stuff.
▶ 0:40:36Ms. Smith: When I bring it up they literally tell us that we are not suburban enough or we don't have a young enough crowd.
▶ 0:40:42Sen. Moran: When you say they bring it up, who is the? >> the doctors. At any of the facilities I've gone to. Anytime I go they literally say we don't have a young enough group. Mobility and act in this does not have to change as you age.
▶ 0:41:12Sen. Moran: It is not a problem that we only have a handful of people. They put the age range they are. We do not have the active group. So that is what we are being faced with.
▶ 0:41:22Sen. Moran: Thank you for sharing that with me it seems to be something that could be corrected. We can do something wherever we live. At whatever va we are at. Let me ask a broader question about the olympics and paralympics.
▶ 0:41:41Sen. Moran: What opportunity do we as senators or members of this committee have in advance and during and following the olympics that are about to occur to highlight the opportunities and share with americans that they ought to be tuning in to see some pretty amazing people perform in the athletic arena and be inspired by that? To give us hope and pride as americans.
▶ 0:42:11Sen. Moran: Beyond that, how can we use this to educator highlight further veterans the opportunities that we hope are there for those veterans? What is your suggestion about how to we market the opportunity that the olympics presents to us? How do we use it to market opportunities? You seem so enthusiastic. >> that is the word, marketing.
▶ 0:42:46Sen. Moran: I have seen this on both sides. Especially the paralympians to come from but -- military backgrounds. The marketing side shows what it takes to get there. Everybody sees the victory, but nobody sees the training. The support that goes behind it. You have to become very selfish.
▶ 0:43:16Sen. Moran: Because you have to spend all of your time training. You have to do everything you do to work toward that goal. You have to put aside family and support and friends and all of that. So it limits an entire group of people. Once you get so you have to have that support. There is more to it.
▶ 0:43:46Sen. Moran: A lot of paralympians struggle with marketing. Because there are not a lot of sponsors for paralympians. They struggled finding funding. We have to go back and find our own sources for funding and training and equipment and all of those great big gaps.
▶ 0:44:20Sen. Moran: Follow the athlete. Show what they go through on a daily basis. Why they should watch it. Build those stories.
▶ 0:44:28Sen. Moran: That makes sense to me.
▶ 0:44:32Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you. Let me ask the entire panel, what do you think are the greatest challenges for veterans seeking prosthetics? Is it the ability to get new devices or repair and replace existing devices?
▶ 0:44:59Sen. Blumenthal: How often are you subsidizing from your own funds to cover not only the cost of the equipment that you need but also food and housing and other needs?
▶ 0:45:19Ms. Smith: I think the biggest challenge we often face are the questions we have to answer it. It is not as easy as I want to be interested in wheelchair pickle ball or basketball or rugby or any adaptive sport. It is not just this is what I needed to be successful. It is to run around you get about it.
▶ 0:45:48Ms. Smith: Have you checked out this or this? We can possibly get you a chair but maybe you are looking at 20 months before we can find funding. The biggest thing I have run into is the questions I was asked. Did you get the ok from this Dr. ? What about this doctor?
▶ 0:46:15Ms. Smith: When you are getting asked those questions it makes it hard to go to them and ask a wheelchair for pickle ball. Or anything. It is the number of hoops you have to jump through just to get a hope for an answer.
▶ 0:46:31Sen. Blumenthal: And delays result from the hoops you have to jump through?
▶ 0:46:39Mr. George: In my experience, I had a couple of interactions. That was easy because the doctor just sent me outside to community care. I had private doctors who worked with me. Another time I was working for a vehicle grant.
▶ 0:47:08Mr. George: The biggest issue was communication. If they don't know where to get it from, why do you need this? That is not a medical device. Sports is my therapy. This is helping my well-being. You have to find the right doctor to make the right request.
▶ 0:47:38Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you.
▶ 0:47:41Ms. Howell: Thank you for the question. For a majority of our members we have a very unique case study. There are those facilities that are staffed with that level of personnel.
▶ 0:48:12Ms. Howell: We have not heard any issues that rose to the level that should be addressed.
▶ 0:48:27Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you. I think you mentioned delays. What are the types of delays you're talking about?
▶ 0:48:44Ms. Smith: The delays for me are even through community care, the small clinics are not able to get you in a timely fashion. I have a neurology consult because the va can no longer get in. I got turned down by three providers because we are coming from the va.
▶ 0:49:15Ms. Smith: They say we cannot get you in. The delay is getting in front of people. Getting answers. >> thank you for all of you being here today.
▶ 0:49:45Ms. Smith: And telling your story. As a former football coach I have seen the impact that sports can have on people's lives. As a committee we should be doing everything we can to support alternative treatments for our veterans. You talked about veterans gaining access.
▶ 0:50:27Ms. Smith: They have to get there the first place to compete. How would by legislation help more veterans? In your thoughts of being able to benefit from adaptive sports?
▶ 0:50:45Ms. Howell: Thank you for the question and thank you for sponsoring that legislation. I think everyone here recognizes the way the bill was implemented was not the intent. It was intended to be an example list. It became an exhaustive list. Veterans across the country were running into barriers.
▶ 0:51:17Ms. Howell: The way the facilities interpreted that, I want to stress, this is a technical thing. It seems so simple. We are eagerly awaiting its passage. Adaptive sports are great. Getting to your facility is great. But some people need modifications to get there. Accessible transportation is really hard.
▶ 0:51:53Ms. Howell: Let's make sure they can get those necessary adaptations. This will increase mental health and access.
▶ 0:52:03Sen. Tuberville: Exactly. Thank you. What is the biggest barrier you are faced with trying to participate in adaptive sports other than those?
▶ 0:52:14Ms. Howell: I will likely other witnesses that in rural communities it is rather challenging. You can only go to 70 places. There are only so many accessible hotel rooms. We run into complications when we try to find a city big enough. You need enough hotels in that area. Those are serious challenges.
▶ 0:52:52Ms. Howell: It is quite the undertaking. Something we could look at is using the grant to host recreation opportunities. Veterans are on the hook for paying their own airfare. For any kind of travel in between.
▶ 0:53:21Ms. Howell: That is a barrier of entry for folks coming from a rural community. Imagine you are a veteran living in a highly rural area. That is an entire opportunity gone. Those veterans don't have that story. It is all one thing after another.
▶ 0:53:42Sen. Tuberville: Thank you. As a former coach I saw firsthand the impact that team sports has on players mental health. What are ways that this committee can ensure that veterans have access to information about great programs like the one that rehabilitated you?
▶ 0:54:03Mr. George: That is a great question. Communication. That is what got me informed about this program. One thing I realized, we go through other veterans. But there are limited therapists. A lot of don't have them.
▶ 0:54:38Mr. George: There is no one facilitating those events. Trying to get those implemented in the community.
▶ 0:54:45Sen. Tuberville: Thank you. I have one more question. Do you see adaptive sports as a form of alternative care to keep veterans away from prescription drugs?
▶ 0:54:59Ms. Howell: I would agree with that. I think I have 14 pages of quotes from members talking about the first time they went to the wheelchair games they fought it, they just wanted to sit at home and be left alone. The introduction to adaptive sports is that thing that got them back into the light.
▶ 0:55:26Ms. Howell: We have countless accounts of veterans to with engaging in adaptive sports, they no longer have active suicidal ideation. They have decreased their dependence on pharmaceuticals. They also end up building a community. If you have no sense of belonging, what are you doing?
▶ 0:55:49Ms. Howell: Adaptive sports is the very basic we can offer to veterans who are struggling because it seems to overwhelmingly reintegrate them into not just a veteran community but the broader community at home. It is a critical piece of the veteran puzzle. >> thank you. I want to thank you in the ranking member for this hearing.
▶ 0:56:14Ms. Howell: More importantly I would really like to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony and service not only in the military but your community. Thank you. I want to thank the chairman for focusing on this important issue. Being injured or having a disability or facing an illness are not just events or circumstances that mean we can no longer fully engaged with life and society.
▶ 0:56:46Ms. Howell: One of the things I think is really important is for us to stop taking about people with disabilities as people who get stabilized and can live inside a house and they are not in a crisis. But they are isolated. It is really clear from the testimony we have had today that there really is a vital role for sports recreation and competition in helping our veterans with disabilities.
▶ 0:57:19Ms. Howell: I want to start with a question to you. Your testimony briefly touched on outdoor recreation. Paralyzed veterans of america offers outdoor experiences throughout the year that can help veterans not only engage in physical activity but also gain confidence and enhance physical and mental health.
▶ 0:57:40Ms. Howell: For veterans who for years of their lives may have spent time training and working outdoors, re-engaging with life in the wilderness after an injury or illness can have a really profound impact. Especially when done in a way that can rebuild sense of community. Something you have all talked about. This is something that the university of new hampshire and the northwest passage program are experts in.
▶ 0:58:04Ms. Howell: They have received adaptive sports grant funding and they continue to provide opportunities for veterans and others with disabilities to engage in community and find fulfillment through sports and recreation. I have met with state veterans who have taken place in these activities. They had told me how important it was for them.
▶ 0:58:24Ms. Howell: Can you discuss how adaptive outdoor recreation opportunities can support veterans and how congress and the va can work together to increase his opportunities?
▶ 0:58:35Ms. Howell: Thank you for the question. I will follow up to get contact information for that program. It sounds remarkable. I think in my written testimony I said that building confidence outdoors is a critical piece of the puzzle. It is great that we can get veterans to adaptive pickle ball or the wheelchair games. But what about the down time in between the major events?
▶ 0:59:05Ms. Howell: If we can facilitate a veteran being confident in the outdoors, especially in a rural area, if we can get you the appropriate device, this is all stuff we think about. Then we allow a veteran to be able to be engaged in a way to be mentally and physically active outside of that structure.
▶ 0:59:33Ms. Howell: I have heard from a lot of members that there is anxiety and hesitancy about engaging with the world around them without a battle buddy. Without the people you are playing sports with. I think that is the objective of our new outdoor program. Let's make sure these veterans are empowered to know their limits.
▶ 1:00:00Ms. Howell: To know how their equipment works. I think that is really what we are trying to take away.
▶ 1:00:07Sen. Hassan: Under the folks there would love to talk to you. You can show up there and you can get a piece of equipment and see how it works for you. That cuts through the red tape a lot. It cuts down barriers and allows you to have a proof point as you might be going for funding for something. I wanted to follow-up with you about access to adaptive sports for rural veterans. It is something you have all talked about.
▶ 1:00:37Sen. Hassan: For veterans who live in rural areas, they have to have the same opportunities as people who live in major metropolitan areas. Can you tell us a little bit about the challenge that rural veterans face when it comes to adaptive sports and recreation and how your organization works to fill in those gaps? I recognize the challenge of transportation. If you don't have a car or van who -- which is adapted.
▶ 1:01:01Ms. Howell: I will reiterate what was said earlier. There may not be a therapist or someone who knows how to connect those dots. Now let's throw in an inaccessible community. You may have choppy sidewalks. I used to live off of a highway. I understand that.
▶ 1:01:29Ms. Howell: Local communities need to be safe enough for people of all ability levels. I think that is something that can be addressed locally. Making sure that people with disabilities are engaging the city councils. Making sure people understand a bus route is better than no bus route. But the buzz needs to be accessible.
▶ 1:01:53Ms. Howell: For rural veterans, transportation is the most critical piece. That is the first step. If you need a ramp to even leave your house, that is one of those ancillary things.
▶ 1:02:13Sen. Hassan: And the need to clear the snow off the ramp which is something I am all too familiar with. My time has run out so I didn't get a chance to talk with the other witnesses. But I think you all so much for your testimony. I would look forward to continuing to work with you as you talked about the challenges with accessible hotel rooms.
▶ 1:02:45Sen. Hassan: I look forward to working with you. >> I would like to get rid of the word adaptive. This is sports. I used to do archery. I expect you are a lot better than me. Let's just talk about sports. That is so important for 70 veterans. Especially those who have been injured or have some disability.
▶ 1:03:10Sen. Hassan: It seems to me we already have a network in the country ready made to be a hub. That is a local hub with information. Often what veteran's lack is information on what is available. That could be part of the therapy.
▶ 1:03:41Sen. Hassan: We spend a lot of time worrying about veteran suicide. It seems to me that sports are an avenue to combat that. Is that correct? >> I 100% agree with that statement.
▶ 1:03:55Sen. King: I think that is something important. This is helping veterans survive. One thing about transportation, we do a lot of transportation to and from veterans hospitals and those kinds of things. This is something we could invade them in or are they already engaged? They have a transportation network in both states. Is that something we should be thinking about?
▶ 1:04:26Ms. Howell: It is my understanding that due to the nature of the grants awarded, I think they are required to go to and from the v.a.. I'm not sure.
▶ 1:04:41Sen. King: Let's fix that. We are in the business of fixing things. I think we need to be thinking creatively about all the possibilities. One of the things that worries me that has come up here today is there seem to be grants and facilities available to athletes at a pretty high level.
▶ 1:05:11Sen. King: I am worried about the veterans who might not be at that level. But through these programs are very useful. How do we make this more widespread?
▶ 1:05:24Mr. George: There are more stipends and stuff for them to compete. For those who do it at the local level, there is no one there. We depend heavily on other groups to help out.
▶ 1:05:57Mr. George: Once we have a clinic with veterans, we try to provide community tournaments to give you that sense of without having to go pay somewhere.
▶ 1:06:04Sen. King: You don't have to be at the elite level.
▶ 1:06:08Mr. George: Correct. Everyone can compete. You said if you could you would get rid of the word adaptive. I disagree only because it is still a sport but a lot of the things we do is accessibility. A lot of things wills say they don't want those on our court. You will tear up our services.
▶ 1:06:39Mr. George: That lets us know that we are accepted there.
▶ 1:06:40Sen. King: So that is a reason to maintain that nomenclature? I appreciate that. There are a number of pieces of legislation. Thank you for your recommendations. I take it these are all things we can't and should be addressing, is that correct?
▶ 1:07:04Ms. Howell: Yes.
▶ 1:07:05Sen. Moran: Thank. >> thank you so much to the witnesses. Your testimony is very enlightening to say the least. You lit it. You are here to tell us what could be done.
▶ 1:07:28Sen. Moran: It does occur to me that the access to the recreation programs in the sports programs have a lot more benefit than to the 1% or so that participate.
▶ 1:07:48Sen. Moran: We know studies have shown that veterans who engage in sports and maintain a regular exercise routine tends to experience enhanced self-esteem, diminished levels of depression and anxiety, and lower stress levels. We talk about how they have suicidal ideation. Access to these kinds of programs have the veteran support.
▶ 1:08:19Sen. Moran: Is that an accurate way of thinking about these programs?
▶ 1:08:23Mr. George: Yes, absolutely.
▶ 1:08:26Sen. Hirono: I'm thinking maybe it would be a good thing that this could be part of the core mission. Because what I'm hearing from your testimony is things are catch as catch can. Depending on what state you live in.
▶ 1:08:55Sen. Hirono: Some of these programs are not available. It is not easy. This can transform lives. It can be part of the core mission. All of the various bills we have can be incorporated into a core mission which is a way to provide that support system.
▶ 1:09:28Sen. Hirono: What do you think? >> I think you have the nail right on the head. The v.a. Does a great job. We have this wonderful new program. It is very evident that we want veterans to be up and moving. But we are so quick to say here is a tablet. We will send it to you in the mail. Tell us every day. You can do all these things but it will be in a group setting.
▶ 1:09:59Sen. Hirono: You don't get to really ask questions. We are not telling veterans how to get healthy. You think that living in new york we would have a lot of different places to go. But there is not been rural new york. Not a whole lot for us to do out there. If we look at it and I think you just put the best way, the v.a. Has to look at is as whole individuals. We are not just tackling the fight on health.
▶ 1:10:29Sen. Hirono: We are tackling mental health as well. The best way to connect those is to get people move eggs and active and let them build a community and feel like they have a purpose again. Get them moving. Let them have those experiences that are proven time and time again to save lives.
▶ 1:10:50Sen. Hirono: Do you agree?
▶ 1:10:58Ms. Howell: I would agree completely. I think it is important to remember that adaptive sports is not only leading to mental health and everything else, it is also having a positive income. A veteran who is engaged in adaptive sports, their cardiovascular strength is going to improve. Their body is going to perform better.
▶ 1:11:27Ms. Howell: They will need less medical support and the other side of the ledger when it comes to care and access. This is literally endless.
▶ 1:11:36Sen. Hirono: I think the three of you have very much convinced me that access to these kinds of programs should be part of the core mission. So there is an acknowledgment and recognition of how important these programs are. For the whole person. Not it's just you're going to be a paralympic athlete.
▶ 1:12:03Sen. Hirono: That is just a small group of really fit veterans. I am thinking about the entire veteran community which is millions and millions of veterans. We speak a lot on this committee about focusing on things like the mental health of veterans and the drugs they have access to. Too many of them take too many drugs.
▶ 1:12:28Sen. Hirono: If we can help them through programs like this in a much more systematic way which is not what I'm getting is happening, I think we can make progress in all of these areas. Thank you.
▶ 1:12:42Sen. Moran: Thank you.
▶ 1:12:49Sen. King: What you just said is so important. Our health care system is oriented toward sickness. We treat you when you're sick. What this program demonstrates is the benefits of actively working with people in order to enable them to keep healthy. I think that is important.
▶ 1:13:19Sen. King: I agree that this should be a basic part. For those worried about budgets, I expect that this will save money. Because of veterans would be healthier and happier. If these programs were expanded. Thank you very much. This is an important hearing.
▶ 1:13:37Sen. Moran: I am of the same view. This is another good hearing for us. Before we ask you to allow the second panel to take your places, is there anything you would like? Anything anyone would like to add for our knowledge of for the record of this hearing before we turn to the second panel?
▶ 1:14:07Sen. Moran: Or is everyone satisfied with what you said? I am never in that position, satisfied with what I said.
▶ 1:14:14Ms. Smith: If I could I would like to thank you all because I know you have our best. I would like to thank you for allowing us to this platform to share our stories because I think the more people that hear our story, the more people you have reached. I think that is how we make a difference. Thank you so much for your time here today.
▶ 1:14:44Sen. Moran: That is well says. This gives us the opportunity to tell a story and make a difference as we deal with the department of veterans affairs and the legislation that might be helpful. Thank you.
▶ 1:14:58Mr. George: When you are ready I would be happy to meet you on the pickle ball courts.
▶ 1:15:10Sen. Moran: There is a group of senators that play pickle ball. Thank you all very much. I appreciate your testimony and we value your service to our country and your care and concern for veterans. One second. Senator, you have questions for the panel?
▶ 1:15:33Sen. Banks: Thank you. Ms. howell, your written statement quotes pba's past president testifying in 1975 lamenting how service disabled veterans used to be cast aside or institutionalized. We have come a long way since 1975. What is the v.a. Doing well today and how are some veterans falling the crack's?
▶ 1:16:01Ms. Howell: . We found it for a house hearing and it was apropos. In the late 1970's we were talking about the need for rec therapists and engaging veterans with recreation, he used strong language and his quote but it leads them to purpose ultimately.
▶ 1:16:27Ms. Howell: I spoke with my sports and rec team before the hearing and the things they are doing right, the grant program is running efficiently. They said the past year and a half, two years the staff have been super engaged. Whenever they need clarification, the v.a. Responds in a timely manner so shot up to everyone working at the v.a. Adaptive sports grant program. As far as veterans falling through the racks -- the crocs, it is hard to say.
▶ 1:16:55Ms. Howell: We ask the same thing when it comes to health care delivery and everything in between. We will never capture all veterans and we do a disservice when we expect the v.a. To catch 100% of people for all things. The testimony talked about the struggles in rural areas, whether or not you have a c block and if it has the resources for a wrecked therapist.
▶ 1:17:23Ms. Howell: The community and the organizations, they try to will the gap when the v.a. Is not there to provide these opportunities. But there are regions where we can't catch them. It is increasing awareness and messaging and the marketing. How do we make sure the world knows about these things? I think it will take a communitywide effort to ensure fewer veterans fall through the crack's.
▶ 1:17:50Ms. Howell: X a quote that I really liked from your past president, he said you must prod the v.a. To take action and begin an active and effective program of recreation. It is a privilege for me to serve on the committee as a veteran myself. I consider it a responsibility to prod the v.a. To do the right thing. Can you give us advice on how to prod the v.a.?
▶ 1:18:17Ms. Howell: Beyond prodding, I think as long as we make sure the v.a. Is being bought full -- thoughtful, in light of the organization, making sure this is at the center of the discussion. Prosthetics touches every veterans life beyond adaptive sports. From facility to facility things are different when it comes to the delivery of prosthetics.
▶ 1:18:48Ms. Howell: So if we are going to prod v.a., we need to make sure they are focused on departments like prosthetics to make sure the delivery is equitable across the system. We can't have massive gaps. We can't have experienced time delays like my counterparts explained. If you order something from the v.a. It should arrive in a timely manner.
▶ 1:19:09Ms. Howell: I will flag, we have heard from veteran members that it is great, they got a piece of adapted fitness equipment from the v.a., everything is going great but it is dropped on a pallet in the driveway. That is not something you can't call -- you can call task rabbit or. How do we get a heavy piece of adaptive equipment into the homes of the veteran can use it?
▶ 1:19:36Ms. Howell: That is one piece of the puzzle that is yet to be figured out.
▶ 1:19:42Sen. Banks: It was great to meet you, Mr. george. I wanted to ask, the whole country is watching the hearing. Will you agree to be my partner in the upcoming senate pickle ball tournament?
▶ 1:19:54Mr. George: Can I see you play first?
▶ 1:20:01Sen. Banks: Fair enough. You are a champion athlete Mr. george but it took a lot to get where you are. How did competing help your recovery in the beginning? Tell us how it affects your health and well-being today. There are many others out there just like you.
▶ 1:20:16Mr. George: For me personally, having the thought of, competition gives you something to do. Rehearsing, practicing, training, it relives the purpose in your mind, showing me in the moments when I'm at home in pain from having muscle spasms, when I can get on the court, I have something else to focus on.
▶ 1:20:43Mr. George: I'm looking forward to not even the match, I'm showing up because I don't see competition as facing a battle with the person. I'm seeing that I'm winning for everyone watching me. I'm here for this day, whether I win or lose this is a win because I'm here today. I was pronounced dead many years ago. I was not supposed to walk. I'm doing beyond what I was told I was supposed to do.
▶ 1:21:08Mr. George: When I reached my limit or find something I'm unable to do, if I can do this, I can show somebody else you can do it to. At the same time, watch what you do because you might get addicted to this if you don't have financial support. So don't say I'm getting sponsored and I have support. I let them know, this is hard. It takes me being away from my daughter a lot, away from my family so I can show up and be resent. That if I don't do it, who is going to do it?
▶ 1:21:39Sen. Banks: You are an inspiration and a hero. I yelled back.
▶ 1:21:41Sen. Moran: I almost allowed you from -- to depart from the witness table. We have been joined by senator blackburn.
▶ 1:21:49Sen. Blackburn: I'm so pleased we are doing this before the 2026 paralympic games. Thank you for doing that. I think our athletes, we want them to compete well. We want them to represent themselves and our country well.
▶ 1:22:12Sen. Blackburn: And I think it is important that we look at that service and recognize that service and the recovery that is there, and the opportunity, as you were speaking to, to actually achieve. And to succeed. So we thank you for that.
▶ 1:22:34Sen. Blackburn: And I think the chairman's leadership, we have the veterans prosthetics advancement reform act, the asset act, these are things we can do to honor the service you have given and make certain that we are supporting your efforts. Ms. howell, I wanted to come to you if I may.
▶ 1:23:01Sen. Blackburn: I would like to know, as we look at different things and v.a. Reforms and secretary collins is doing a great job, but when you look at communication between the v.a.
▶ 1:23:15Sen. Blackburn: Clinicians, the recreational therapists, grant funded community organizations where veterans are transitioning into community-based adaptive sports programs, how effective is the communication so you get that continuum of care?
▶ 1:23:45Sen. Blackburn: And it is also a continuum of opportunity?
▶ 1:23:46Ms. Howell: I agree wholeheartedly. I think other witnesses may be able to better speak to that. I have never participated in an adaptive games myself so I don't know how it works, being transferred from the v.a. To a community group. I would defer to the other experts on the panel.
▶ 1:24:08Sen. Blackburn: Mr. george?
▶ 1:24:09Mr. George: I have been fortunate to have a great experience when it comes to a transfer from my doctors and my health. I speak highly of my rec therapist from the v.a., who had a major role in my therapy and recovery. She was there when I had questions about what is going on. She is putting in the calendar throughout the month, providing events for us. She told me about the summer sports clinic and winter sports clinic and invited me.
▶ 1:24:38Mr. George: As long as I'm willing to show up, she said she would support me. I have heard what others haven't. Not everybody has a great rec therapist. With me in my organization, when economies to finding -- when it comes to finding rec therapists in underserved communities, there is nobody to communicate so we try to spend funds to advocate for others for the program, but when we leave who will maintain it for us?
▶ 1:25:10Mr. George: The thing I hate doing is showing up, giving awesome clinics, sparking the fire and leaving with no resource. Up that relationship with a rec therapist, -- without that relationship with a rec, therapist, it is difficult. When we find somebody, veterans share with veterans. We help her do her job but we overwork her providing her with more people.
▶ 1:25:40Sen. Blackburn: Would you say half the veterans, what percentage of veterans you come into contact with have access to that continuum?
▶ 1:25:50Mr. George: It is hard to put on a percentage because I cover a national level, but it is usually rural areas.
▶ 1:26:02Ms. Smith: I'm in one of the rural areas they talked about. Western new york. I went from competing at the wounded warrior games with navy wounded warrior and I was selective duty, just entering retirement. They implemented where you can now only do two warrior games, which is understandable, there are more people than they can have who are eligible to be part of that.
▶ 1:26:34Ms. Smith: But there was no continuum for me. When I addressed the v.a. With how can I stay active? I can't do this program anymore. I'm told we have this and I was told we do, but that will not serve you well because you aren't training to compete on the huge level or training, or it will take so long for you to get an appointment, you won't be satisfied. Look elsewhere.
▶ 1:27:01Sen. Blackburn: Would it be helpful if there were community organizations, that could be brought into the process like we are doing with community care, where veterans can go into medical care in their communities without having to travel to the v.a.? If there are nonprofits and organizations we could activate into a network, would that be helpful?
▶ 1:27:27Ms. Smith: Yes ma'am, but in the same way, helpful as it is also not helpful. In rural areas we don't have a lot of community places. I'm fortunate there is a local nonprofit that gets a v.a. Grant and I'm able to do horsemanship and horse riding with them. But in the same way, our community doesn't have those spaces available.
▶ 1:27:52Ms. Smith: It would be helpful but we will still be driving an hour and a half, two hours like we would go to the major v.a. To get care. It is helpful, but I think everything comes at a price.
▶ 1:28:09Sen. Blackburn: Your service and sacrifice is a price and we are grateful for that. Thank you.
▶ 1:28:16Sen. Moran: Now, we are saddened by your departure but we will ask you to depart. Thank you for your testimony and your service. Thank you for your example. I will call to the table are second panel, which consists of Dr. rachel mcardle, deputy executive director for the office of rehabilitation.
▶ 1:28:48Sen. Moran: And prosthetic services at the U.S. department of veterans affairs. Thank you for your presence. You are no recognized for your testimony. -- now recognized for your testimony.
▶ 1:29:07Dr. Mcardle: Good afternoon, chairman moran ranking member , blumenthal, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about va's adaptive sports programs and share our views on bills under the consideration. Va's adaptive sports program is a vital part of programs for veterans with disabilities.
▶ 1:29:33Dr. Mcardle: These programs are clinically integrated and help veterans regain independence, improve physical and mental health, and reconnect with communities. Veterans build strength, confidence and rediscover purpose. Each year v.a.
▶ 1:29:48Dr. Mcardle: Hosts six national rehab events, the national veterans wheelchair games co-presented with the national disabled veterans winter sports clinics and the national disabled veterans golf clinic which is co-presented with disabled american veterans. National veterans creative arts festival in collaboration with the national legion. The summer sports clinic and our largest event, the golden age games.
▶ 1:30:18Dr. Mcardle: These rehab events provide opportunities for veterans with spinal cord injuries, limb and vision loss, traumatic brain injury and many other conditions. We were honored to host staff from this committee at the national veterans wheelchair games. Beyond national events, we manage therapy grants programs to support the physical and mental health of veterans with disabilities.
▶ 1:30:41Dr. Mcardle: Grants are awarded to experienced non-governmental organization's helping veterans and active duty service members apply script -- skills learned in their communities. Last year the program served 20,000 veterans through $16 million in grants. V.a. Manages the veterans monthly assistance allowance which provides stipends to veterans who are training and competing at the elite level of sports.
▶ 1:31:11Dr. Mcardle: Recipients exemplify how adaptive sports and power to pursue excellence and represent our nation on the global stage. This year the global stage includes milano cortina olympics, were veterans receiving stipends are competing, a testament to the power of adaptive sports. I will turn to the legislation before the committee, noting our full views are detailed in my written statement.
▶ 1:31:39Dr. Mcardle: 1644 autonomy for disabled veterans, v.a. Supports this. It would help home improvements and structural alterations to ensure veterans receive home modifications. V.a. Agrees with the goal of increasing flexibility and adjusting limits based on industry costs but recommends technical edits to clarify eligibility and implementation.
▶ 1:32:05Dr. Mcardle: We support the index adjustment and believes the recommended amount for future applicants aligns with average cost for bathroom recommendations. 1726, v.a. Supports the intent subject to amendment to broaden v.a.'s authority to provide medically necessary adaptations for drivers and passengers, improving safe transportation for veterans with disabilities. V.a.
▶ 1:32:29Dr. Mcardle: Suggests adding authority to limiting the use to every five years or extenuating circumstances. 2981 veterans prosthetic perform act, v.a. Has concerns establishing a national aesthetic formulary would require substantial resources including dedicated personnel in an integrated clinical system. Without integration, providers face delays and inefficiencies. V.a.
▶ 1:32:57Dr. Mcardle: Seeks clarification on whether the bill intends to include items covered under other authorities to avoid duplication and confusion. V.a. Welcomes the opportunity to discuss how best to address entering the formulary improves access without unintended consequences. 3138, v.a. Supports the bill subject to amendment. V.a.
▶ 1:33:18Dr. Mcardle: Provides adaptive prostheses and terminal recreation equipment under current regulations and is concerned the language could create confusion or litigation. V.a. Recommends a rule to clarify the bill doesn't alter existing benefits. V.a. Stands ready to work with the committee to ensure alignment and avoid unintended disruption. V.a.
▶ 1:33:43Dr. Mcardle: Remains committed to expanding adaptive sports opportunities and working with congress to strengthen these programs. Thank you for recognizing the transformative power of adaptive sports. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:33:54Sen. Moran: The committee looks forward to working with you and the department of veterans affairs to find solutions to problems and move forward with the legislative agenda related to these topics. My only question for you today is, perhaps the broad question is something you heard from our witnesses that you would like to respond to or in particular, I ask again, how do we overcome
▶ 1:34:26Sen. Moran: This issue of rural and small towns and where people live?
▶ 1:34:30Dr. Mcardle: Thank you for the opportunity, chairman. I did gain a lot from listening to the first panel and it is not the first time I have heard it. I regularly attend national rehab events as well as talk to other grantees we have. One reason I do this is to be able to hear from them what is going on at their v.a. Facilities, so one of the things we have done over the last year's create a mentor-meant he row graham.
▶ 1:34:59Dr. Mcardle: We take feedback and it is to be able to spread the experience. We have programs, dave was mentioning his experience has been fantastic. We heard ellie share a different experience. We want to share the information across the v.a. And train up those sites, whether they are rural or urban, and bolster the adaptive sports programming throughout the enterprise.
▶ 1:35:28Dr. Mcardle: We do have grants that range from small, just under $4000, as high as $750,000. For anyone watching, when our notice of funding opportunities post, grants can be applied for by all levels of different organizations, whether they are in small rural communities are large urban communities.
▶ 1:35:51Sen. Moran: Thank you for being here.
▶ 1:35:55Sen. Blumenthal: As you are aware, thousands of contracts were canceled as a result of the doge program. They were terminated for convenience. A method that doge commonly used because the v.a. To cut important contracts.
▶ 1:36:24Sen. Blumenthal: I understand at least three of those contracts were for adaptive vehicles. Is that correct?
▶ 1:36:29Dr. Mcardle: Thank you, ranking member blumenthal. I'm unaware of three cancellations of contracts of adaptive vehicles.
▶ 1:36:40Sen. Blumenthal: Are you aware, could you find out for us and report back?
▶ 1:36:45Dr. Mcardle: My apology, I will take that for the record.
▶ 1:36:49Sen. Blumenthal: Are you aware for -- of other contracts that were canceled as a result of the doge involvement?
▶ 1:36:56Dr. Mcardle: In my office, the contracts we oversee, we have over 80 plus national contracts for prosthetics specifically. We had no contracts that were canceled for doge.
▶ 1:37:09Sen. Blumenthal: Any other services that come within --
▶ 1:37:13Dr. Mcardle: We had no contracts canceled within rehabilitation and prosthetics services.
▶ 1:37:19Doge Sen. Moran: Did you lose --
▶ 1:37:25Sen. Blumenthal: Did you lose staff as a result of cuts in workforce?
▶ 1:37:27Dr. Mcardle: I don't know of any staffing cuts in rehabilitation programs. The department has seen national -- natural attrition but there has been no impact on adaptive sports programs to my knowledge.
▶ 1:37:40Sen. Blumenthal: That is good to hear. Adaptive sports is a connecticut-based organization. They put out adaptive sporting events for veterans. They reached out new haven v.a. Clinic to recruit veterans. Apparently they are having difficulty reaching people there.
▶ 1:38:04Sen. Blumenthal: Could you intervene to help them with that activity?
▶ 1:38:12Dr. Mcardle: We would love to follow up to get the specifics and happy to reach out.
▶ 1:38:17Sen. Blumenthal: I appreciate you being here and all your great work. Thank you. >> thank you for joining us in the work you are doing. Is it routine to notify a disabled veteran who is in touch with the agency of the availability of these kinds of programs? Is there some automatic form or notification? I'm concerned that we have these good programs but a lot of veterans don't know about it.
▶ 1:38:47Dr. Mcardle: Thank you, senator. Are you specifically speaking of the six national rehab events or adaptive sports?
▶ 1:38:56Sen. King: Adaptive sports generally.
▶ 1:38:59Dr. Mcardle: It is probably variable but there are a lot, we have a website. We try to get the word out. I would agree that with the marketing piece, we are currently working on an opportunity that would allow sort of a navigational resource app that would allow veterans to easily find opportunities in their communities. It is still in its infantile stages.
▶ 1:39:26Dr. Mcardle: We do regularly speak with rec therapists so it would be them getting out information. We collaborate with our bso partners to get the word out for what we have going on. They are often force multipliers for us to get communication out.
▶ 1:39:41Sen. King: I think that would deserve some real attention to think about the marketing. The good news you mentioned in your testimony, you have 20,000 veterans participating. The bad news is there are 9 million veterans enrolled in the v.a. So there is plenty of room where there are people take advantage of the programs but they don't know what steps they might take to avail themselves of these opportunities.
▶ 1:40:07Sen. King: I see this as part and parcel of the health care provision of the v.a. We talked with the previous panel about mental health and the general health benefits of these programs. I would hope you might work with your health counterparts, and try to really multiply the outreach to the veterans community, particularly the disabled veterans community.
▶ 1:40:37Dr. Mcardle: Absolutely, senator. I did forget to mention as part of the grant program there is an outreach component. The grants we award, part of the responsibility is to provide outreach so that is why we have a good success rate in terms of getting a lot of veterans participating with the grants we are funding.
▶ 1:40:53Sen. King: I would hope there would be a routine check mark, disabled veteran enrolled for care at local veterans hospital, have they been in warmed of adaptive sports opportunities -- informed of adaptive sports opportunities? Almost part of the intake.
▶ 1:41:15Dr. Mcardle: Thank you, senator. I will take that for the record.
▶ 1:41:20Sen. Moran: Thank our committee staff. I think we have had another good hearing. I want to thank my colleagues for being here and participating. I think our witnesses, and you and those who proceeded on the first panel. I appreciate our audience and their attention.
▶ 1:41:45Sen. Moran: Members of this committee will have five legislative days to submit questions or statements for the record. Any senator who would like to submit a question for the record, please do so in a timely manner. I ask the witness is to respond to the questions for the record received in a timely manner as well.
▶ 1:42:04Sen. King: Can I also ask those who are here in the audience and on the panel to send us ideas? Send us thoughts that have been provoked by the hearing today. We are in the idea business here. If there are thoughts you come up with about how to facilitate these programs more effectively, let us know. Don't assume we know everything. That is not a safe assumption.
▶ 1:42:33Sen. Moran: If anyone assumes that, I'm glad senator king has dissuaded them of that view. I appreciate our hearing today and with the outcome the hearing is adjourned.