▶ 0:16:28Chaplain Kibben: I call this hearing to order. Welcome to the hearing today. Appreciate all of you making the chip to be with us. We have a number of bills on today's agenda, priorities across the west. This morning's hearing will look at many pieces of legislation that impact our federal lands. Families and communities in wyoming and throughout the west depend on federal lands for energy and mineral development, for grazing, for forest management, and for recreation. Chaplain k chaplain including in the agenda is a bill of my own.
▶ 0:17:02Chaplain Kibben: I would like to highlight the grasslands grazing act. Live stock grazing on federal lands has a strong tradition in wyoming and across the west. Federal grazing is a necessary tool for wildfire prevention and for promoting range land health. It's widely used by both the U.S. forest service and the bureau of land management. The U.S. forest service manages both national forests and national grasslands. Live stock grazing is done on both national forest land and grassland.
▶ 0:17:31Chaplain Kibben: Obtaining a federal permit for grazing on national forest land is common practice. However, there is a lack of federal certainty and clarity for obtaining the same permits for grasslands. In wyoming, cattle graze on the thunder basin national grassland, located in northeastern wyoming in the powder river basin between the big horn mountains and black hills. It encompasses little over half a million acres. That's a lot of land.
▶ 0:18:02Chaplain Kibben: I want to bring clarity to this. Ranchers across the west depend on access to grazing on our national grasslands. They deserve to have certainty that their grazing permits will be approved in a timely manner. The grasslands grazing act will give wyoming's ranching families the stability that they need to keep their operations running strong. I'd like to welcome all four of our witnesses here this morning, especially ty checketts, who is always wonderful to have here.
▶ 0:18:30Chaplain Kibben: He's one of the wonderful wyoming ranchers who's been back to D.C. to testify, speaking on behalf of the important work that they do each and every day on their operations. I look forward to hearing your testimony, and from all of you. But first I'd like to turn to senator cortez masto for opening remarks.
▶ 0:18:49Ms. Cortez Masto: Thank you, chairman barrasso. I want to thank our ranking members lee and heinrich for this legislative hearing today. I look forward to working with my colleagues on planning several more this year. We have a full agenda, as you've heard. There's 23 bills. Several of today's bills were previously processed through the committee last congress, and I look forward to working with my colleagues to advance them further. I also want to welcome all the panelists today.
▶ 0:19:18Ms. Cortez Masto: It's great to see everybody from john raby to christopher french. Mr. checketts, welcome again, and also to wonderful julie regan. I appreciate julie to come all the way over from tahoe. She's the executive director of the tahoe regional planning agency. She'll be providing testimony specifically in support of s.1395, thank you so much. And I too want to talk about some of the bills that I have on the agenda today.
▶ 0:19:50Ms. Cortez Masto: I so appreciate, there's several of my bills. One of them is s.1349, the ruby mountain protection act. This bill, which is already been favorably approved by this committee in each of the previous three congresses, let me say that again, three congresses, would prohibit oil and gas development within the ruby mountains area of the humboldt-toiyabe national forest, which is located in elko in nevada.
▶ 0:20:14Ms. Cortez Masto: The bill was created after the forestry service received a request by an out of state member of the public to development 54,000 acres of land. In 2019, the forest service determined the area was not appropriate for leasing due to the potential, due to the low potential for oil and gas resources, and due to the extensive involvement of the community in opposition to leasing efforts.
▶ 0:20:37Ms. Cortez Masto: This bill codifies the determination that was made by the forest service under the first trump administration, ensuring this great public space is preserved for recreation opportunities, outdoor economy, rare wildlife and plant life, and the local culture that these mountains support. The other bill is s.1981, strategic grazing to reduce risk of wildlife act.
▶ 0:21:02Ms. Cortez Masto: This would direct the forest service to work with permit holders to create a strategy to utilize live stock grazing on public land to mitigate risks posed by wildfires. In states where most of the land is managed by the federal government, like nevada, ranchers and cattlemen rely on public lands for grazing purposes. Now more than ever, due to climate change and historic drought conditions, these lands in the populated areas near them are threatened by wildfires that grow in size and intensity almost yearly.
▶ 0:21:34Ms. Cortez Masto: And I would also like to talk about s.3695. This bill is bipartisan, bicameral, and bistate. It has wide local support from the washo tribe of nevada and california, local government, and the business community from both sides of lake tahoe, california, and nevada.
▶ 0:21:54Ms. Cortez Masto: It has the full support from our tahoe delegation in the senate, cosponsored by my colleague, senators rosen, padilla and schiff, and my co-lead in the house is congressman kevin kiley from california. This bill modernizes the original act of 1980 that utilized revenues from targeted land disposal to preserve lake tahoe from growing threats of environmental degradation, from land management, on both nevada and california sides of the lake.
▶ 0:22:24Ms. Cortez Masto: Changes were made to the law in 1998 that limited the use of funds granted by the act, by the land sales. However, preserving the pristine quality of like tahoe requires ever lasting vigilance and ability to adapt evolving practices, modernizing the santini burton act would allow tahoe partners with additional tools to manage public lands and address visitation impacts.
▶ 0:22:52Ms. Cortez Masto: The goal here, and I'm hoping working with our colleagues, we can continue the original intent of the santini burton act. I just want to mention two other bills on today's agenda that I'm also appreciative of, and they're very important to my home state. And they are sponsored my colleague senator rosen, s.462, and s.3494, the carson city public act.
▶ 0:23:22Ms. Cortez Masto: Both of these bills received a hearing in december, were favorabled recovered by the committee with bipartisan support last congress. Our community-driven, they are prioritize locally identified needs, including specific land disposals to facilitate local economic development and residential housing needs, conveyances to facilitate efficient municipal management or support for local tribal communities, and efforts to preserve certain public lands for conservation and outdoor recreation.
▶ 0:23:49Ms. Cortez Masto: I look forward to the hearing today, and thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:23:54Chair Barrasso: Senator daines?
▶ 0:23:59Mr. Daines: Thank you. Included in today's agenda is one of my bills, the montana sportsman conservation act. Our family roots in montana go back five generations. My wife and I spend as much time outdoors as we can throughout wilderness areas in montana, as well as our national forest. Montanans are clear about the importance of their public lands, and count me in as one who believes strongly in that.
▶ 0:24:28Mr. Daines: Local input and the best available science guide land management plan revisions, but unfortunately, congressional inaction has left many areas in montana in limbo. The original intent of wilderness study areas was for land management agencies to study,&then make recommendations to congress, whether an area is suitable and should be made wilderness, or should be
▶ 0:24:59Mr. Daines: Released to general management and not suitable for wilderness. There is so much misinformation, frankly lying going on on this issue, but I want to set the record very, very straight. Congress then must act on these recommendations. Montanans are tired of going through the process of studying, providing input in these areas, and then not seeing any action taken or resolution.
▶ 0:25:26Mr. Daines: The consequence of this inaction is unacceptable, and I'm determined to fix it. Following a multiyear collaborative process with strong public comment spanning multiple administrations, the three areas in my bill covering just over 100,000 acres have been deemed unsuitable for permanent wilderness. Let me say that again.
▶ 0:25:54Mr. Daines: Multiple collaboration over multiple administrations have been deemed unsuitable for wilderness designation. These are the wales creek and the middle fork judith wilderness study areas. The bill is supported by both the powell and judeist basin county commissions, as well as multiple outdoor recreation, timber, and ag groups. I ask unanimous consent to add the eight letters of support I have received into the record.
▶ 0:26:26Chair Barrasso: Without objection.
▶ 0:26:31Mr. Daines: The lands included in it, as well as the forest system as a whole will continue to enjoy statutory protection from nipa, the endangered species act, the clean water act, the clean air act, flipma, and multiple other conservation and land management statutes and policies.
▶ 0:26:59Mr. Daines: The forest service with public input also developed forest management plans and travel analysis reports. The montana sportsman conservation act does not strip protections, but instead, improves the ability to restore wildlife habitats, enhanced sportsman opportunities, mitigate wildfire risk, and increase multiple use opportunities for montana.
▶ 0:27:28Mr. Daines: Montanans have waited too long for congress to act on these three w.s.a.'s. It's time to listen to the science. Listen to those on the ground. Respect the collaborative process with massive amounts of public input, and return these areas to general management with multiple conservation protections remaining in place as I mentioned earlier.
▶ 0:27:52Mr. Daines: I want to thank our witnesses for their attendance, and I look forward to your testimony.
▶ 0:27:59Chair Barrasso: Thank you, senator daines. Senator heinrich?
▶ 0:28:04Sen. Heinrich: I want to thank you both you and ranking member cortez masto for convening this hearing today. This hearing will add to the significant number of conservation bills ready for markup, and I look forward to working both with you and chairman lee to get them marked up, passed, and frankly signed into law, most importantly. I'd like to highlight two of the bills that I have on the agenda that are widely supported in new mexico.
▶ 0:28:32Sen. Heinrich: The first bill would implement a mineral withdrawal for four small parcels just north of albuquerque. The threat of a gravel mine in the area and the particular pollution that comes with it brought the community together to seek permanent protection for these parcels.
▶ 0:28:52Sen. Heinrich: The largest area is commonly known as the buffalo tract, valued for hiking, outdoor recreation, but also serves as important wildlife corridor between the sandea mountains. These parcels are adjacent to a neighborhood and a community.
▶ 0:29:14Sen. Heinrich: There's literally several gravel mines only a few miles from the buffalo tract that are not controversial in this community, because they're in an appropriate location. Further, the lands in this withdrawal proposal are culturally and ecologically significant to two native american tribes in new mexico who support this effort, and for these reasons, it is appropriate, an inappropriate
▶ 0:29:45Sen. Heinrich: Location for gravel mining. This has been literally a decade-long effort, and I appreciate the support that the community as a whole has provided for this bill in past congresses from the local municipality to the county to the local tribes. The neighborhood association, it goes on and on, because this is not a controversial bill in my state.
▶ 0:30:10Sen. Heinrich: My second bill would establish thierier within the del norte national monument, and this parcel crosses cerro de la olla, which is a towering shield volcano over the taos plateau, where the people of taos have hunted, gathered herbs, collected firewoods for literally generations.
▶ 0:30:35Sen. Heinrich: The high elevation of cerro de la olla offers solitude and unparalleled views, while the surrounding landscape in the monument offers recreation opportunities, including white watering rafting, fishing, camping. Designated this wilderness will ensure that all the above values are preserved so that future generations can experience them.
▶ 0:30:59Sen. Heinrich: In addition, this bill would make minor adjustments to the boundaries of the rio grandee del norte national monument to include recent land and water acquisitions adjacent to the monument.
▶ 0:31:15Sen. Heinrich: The acquisitions will allow new public access to the monument and increase opportunities for both recreation and traditional uses, bus most importantly, we are further protecting these acquisitions from commercial development in an area that is renowned in new mexico for its use.
▶ 0:31:36Sen. Heinrich: Acquisitions such as these are great examples of a community coming together to build economic development opportunities, to unlock access for pristine hunting opportunities, hiking, recreation opportunities, and provide an opportunity for protecting fragile and valuable landscapes.
▶ 0:31:58Sen. Heinrich: This bill is a major priority for the taos community, including both the county, the pueblo of taos, the city, and I'm proud to be able to offer this bill for consideration today. Both of these bills have had literally years of support and then processed by this committee in past congresses with bipartisan support.
▶ 0:32:24Sen. Heinrich: Understanding that the chairman and I made, the chairman of the overall committee and I may differ in opinion about this type of conservation legislation, I hope that we will be able to have these bills considered and advanced on a markup shortlist soon. And once again, I want to thank you, chairman barrasso, and the ranking member for having this hearing today.
▶ 0:32:47Chair Barrasso: Thank you. We'll turn to the panel now. It's an honor to introduce Mr. ty checketts this morning. Welcome to the committee. He is president of the association of national grasslands. He's a wyoming native from new castle, wyoming. His wonderful wife becky is here. Thank you, becky, for being here this morning. Good to have both of you here. Ty runs 1,000 head of black angus on about 65,000 acres of both public and private land. He's a member of the wyoming stock growers association.
▶ 0:33:16Chair Barrasso: He also holds a seat on the board of the public lands council and is a member of the national cattleman's beef association. Ty, I'm grateful you're here today. I want to thank you for representing the ranchers across the united states. I also want to take a moment to thank the other witnesses for joining us this morning, especially nevada state director of the bureau of land management, Mr. jon raby, and associate chief of the united states forest service within the U.S. department of agriculture, Mr.
▶ 0:33:45Chair Barrasso: Chris french, a friend and regular witness to the committee. Thank you both for coming here again. I'd also like to welcome Ms. julie regan, the executive director of the tahoe regional planning agency. I look forward to hearing everyone's testimony this morning. Mr. checketts?
▶ 0:34:03Mr. Checketts: Good morning, chairman barrasso, ranking members, cortez masto and other members of the committee. I'm grateful for the opportunity to be here to testify on senate bill 2787, the grasslands grazing act of 2025. Background, my name is ty checketts.
▶ 0:34:21Mr. Checketts: I'm president of the association of national grasslands, also serve as a board member on the public lands council, member of the wyoming stock growers, and also ncba, like the senator said. Most importantly, I'm a husband and a father. Our operation is on the thunder basin national grassland. My family and I own and operate the historic ranch. We've gone on 65,000 acres. We run 1,000 cows.
▶ 0:34:49Mr. Checketts: Without our permits, it would be impossible for us to ranch on this scale. We represent 30 national grasslands, grazing associations, and districts. There's 1,275 members. There's a million a.u.m.'s. Four million acres on the national grasslands across the west. We work directly with our forest service friends to manage and improve these lands for long-term sustainability.
▶ 0:35:18Mr. Checketts: Grazing on federal lands is diverse, but the government shouldn't create winners and losers. National grassland committees have fewer rights than our friends on the b.l.m. And national forest lands. This inequity stands from the final language in 1976. Originally included, but was later removed in committee, leaving them without due process protections under 431752. As a result, U.S.
▶ 0:35:48Mr. Checketts: Forest service created two classes of permits, 36c.f.r., forest service permittees have more rights, national grassland permanentees have fewer rights. It requires a simple change in language. Lands within national forest with national forest system lands.
▶ 0:36:13Mr. Checketts: What this means for us is as producers, it gives us permits, priority for renewal, the preference system, written notice and opportunity to correct these issues before suspension or cancellation. Two-year notice before cancellation except in emergencies. These are basic due process protections that b.l.m. And forest city permitteesen joy. This puts us on equal standing.
▶ 0:36:42Mr. Checketts: Long-term permits equals long-term stewardship. Allows us to develop water, maintain fences, slow down forage improvements, gives us financial stability. A 10-year permit gives our lenders the confidence to borrow some money we need to operate. Producers can plan, invest, and stay on the land. The average age of a rancher is nearly 60 years old. Over the next 20 years, 70% of ranch land will change hands.
▶ 0:37:09Mr. Checketts: Young producers need predictability, sustainability to stay in the business. Since 2017, the U.S. has lost 17% of cattle ranchers. More than 150,000 operations. The national herd is at a 75-year low. Meanwhile, beef to man is up over 9% in the past decade. We can't afford to lose more ranchers, and ranchers can't afford to lose more a.u.m.'s. The usda's own plan calls for no net loss of a.u.m.'s.
▶ 0:37:42Mr. Checketts: 60% of the western beef herd grazes on federal lands. 50% do as well. Department of interior estimates 1.5 billion in direct economic impact, and 8.5 billion annual ecosystem services. National grasslands are some of the highest quality of forage available. When you can plan, you can manage better and the land benefits.
▶ 0:38:09Mr. Checketts: Grasslands cover 25% of the earth's surface, and they store 34% of the global carbon. Grazing supports native grass, which is so important to our ecosystem, reduces invasive species, lowers wildfire risk that destroys communities and costs millions, biodiversity and our wildlife. The changes this legislation addresses only extend to 1752, due process rights, not all.
▶ 0:38:41Mr. Checketts: Conservation practice programs stays intact. Prior exemptions remain intact. Grazing associations keep their current structure. Mr. chairman, ranking member, members of the subcommittee, senate bill 2787 is a simple fix with enormous impact. It creates uniform, equitable and predict framework for ranchers who rely on the national grasslands.
▶ 0:39:05Mr. Checketts: It helps ensure the long-term viability of rural communities, range lands, and america's food supply, and ultimately our national security. Thank you for your time. I'm happy to answer any questions.
▶ 0:39:17Chair Barrasso: Thanks so much for being here. Mr. raby?
▶ 0:39:20Mr. Raby: Chairman barrasso, ranking member corps toes masto and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify to provide testimony on the bills on the hearing agenda related to the bureau of land management. I'm jon raby, state director for the b.y.u. Of land management in nevada, an agency I've worked at for over 40 years. We approximately 245 million surface acres, located in 12 western states, and approximately 700 million acres of sub surface estate.
▶ 0:39:48Mr. Raby: The federal land policy and management act or flipma, sets forth the mission directing public lands generally be managed for a broad range of uses, such as energy development, live stock grazing, timber production, hunting and fishing, and recreation. Flpma requires public land resources on a stand yield basis for the benefit of current and future generations. Under the trump administration, the b.l.m.
▶ 0:40:12Mr. Raby: Is managing the public lands as national assets capable of growing our economy, helping balance the budget, and generating revenue for american taxpayers. These assets benefit all americans. The b.l.m. Is working to fulfill the president's vision while protecting our beautiful lands and ensuring that america's public land serve the american people.
▶ 0:40:32Mr. Raby: Many of the bills on today's agenda further the trump administration's goals and priorities, particularly those related to mineral development, fire management, recreation and access, and supporting local communities. The administration is committed to unleashing american energy as part of the broader agenda of strengthening the economy and lowering the cost of living and the b.l.m. Is working to secure reliable and resilient domestic supply of minerals. B.l.m. Supports h.r.
▶ 0:41:00Mr. Raby: 3872, as it expands the label available for rock development. This aligns with president trump's direction to take action to the maximum practical extent. Wildfires threaten lives and livelihood and cost our nation hundreds of billions of dollars annually. The current administration is focused on streamlining organizational structures and regulations, including those needed to address today's wild fire crisis. The b.l.m.
▶ 0:41:27Mr. Raby: Welcomes the subcommittee's interest and has this reduction and supports h.r. 204. Senatorburg up recently reaffirmed the expansion to public access by issuing secretary's order 3447, expanding hunting and fishing access, removing unnecessary barriers, and ensuring consistency across the department of interior lands and waters.
▶ 0:41:53Mr. Raby: Which among other things directs agencies to expand access and opportunities were competitive with law, safety, and conservation needs. Under secretary burgum's leadership, the b.l.m. Has taken steps to implement and expand access to individuals with disabilities. The b.l.m.
▶ 0:42:08Mr. Raby: Supports the bill's objective of preserving accessibility and expanding outdoor recreation opportunities for americans with disabilities and recognizes the importance of ensuring access to public lands in a manner that is safe, predictable, and consistent with applicable law. We welcome the opportunity to work with a sponsor and the subcommittee on the bill.
▶ 0:42:30Mr. Raby: It further the administration's timber production and energy dominance goals while providing greater flexibility to manage and balance multiple uses in the b.l.m. Supports the bill. Several bills on the agenda propose management designations that would restrict motorized vehicle use, decrease public access, prohibit mineral development, and limit the ability of b.l.m. To manage and protect the land in response to changing conditions, including the growing risk of wild fire and changing public needs. The b.l.m.
▶ 0:42:58Mr. Raby: Does not support the designations mineral withdrawals and other restrictions imposed in s.462, s.1464, and s.1497. The b.r.m. Recognize the challenges presented by irregular landownership patterns, and believes management strategies are effective and in the public interest. As such, the b.l.m. Supports the conveyance in h.r. 952.
▶ 0:43:29Mr. Raby: Finally the b.l. Has not has no objection and looks forward to working with the subcommittee and sponsor toen sure the review directed by the bill includes all relevant agencies and mineral materials. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on these important questions, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:43:44Chair Barrasso: Thanks very much. Mr. french?
▶ 0:43:47Mr. French: Good morning. Thank you, chairman barrasso and ranking member cortez masto. And other members of the subcommittee. It's my pleasure to be here today. I'm chris french, I'm the associate chief of the U.S. forest service.
▶ 0:44:10Mr. French: In a wide ranging nature of the bills we're discussing today, I think that when you look at all of them, it really demonstrates the breadth of the work we do at the usda forest service. The american people use national forests and grasslands for essential activities and support economy, ways of life, and american prosperity.
▶ 0:44:29Mr. French: Ranchers, loggers, miners, recreation, among others, rely on accessing these lands for their families, businesses, live stock grazing, timber ha vesting, recreation, and mineral and energy development, all of which we'll be discussing today in these bills. While the work we do on behalf of the american taxpayer is largely focused on services, we recognize management of our lands has broader regional and national impact.
▶ 0:44:56Mr. French: I hope that today's discussion showcases the many ways in which national forest and grasslands provide benefit and opportunity to the entire country. While our positions vary across the bills, our testimony expresses our willingness to sit down and work with bill sponsors and the subcommittee on the ideas they put forward. As always, I defer to the department of interior for its views on the elements, these bills that would impact lands under its jurisdictions.
▶ 0:45:23Mr. French: Many of the bills included in today's hearing align with the forest service's commitment to ensuring the national forest system lands are accessible and productive to the american people. There's updates to the motor vehicle plans in order to have access for all americans. H.r. 3872 expands opportunities for hard rock mineral leasing on federal lands. Sr.
▶ 0:45:52Mr. French: 2787 and s.1981 promote grazing on national forests and grasslands, ensuring streamlined implementation of permitting and the use of grazing as a strategic wild fire risk reduction tool. We support goal of all these bills. We hope to work further with the bill sponsors on any technical adjustments. H.r. 204 supports the agency's ongoing efforts to build trust with the american public around the work we do and in this case our efforts to reduce wild fire risk.
▶ 0:46:22Mr. French: We support this bill and would like to work with the sponsor to ensure the bill's reporting requirements fully capture risk to communities, the scope and effectiveness of our treatment efforts, and the associated costs to the american people. The remaining 11 bills under discussion today direct land-based changes in specific geographies. Across these bills, the forest service is working with communities, tribes, and other local entities to resolve issues related to land uses.
▶ 0:46:50Mr. French: The agency is similarly committed to working with you, congress, to ensure that the bill's text achieves your intent. Across these bills, we do not support actions that limit our management flexibility or conflict with executive orders and other administration policies. To this end, the administration does not support further mineral withdraws from the federal estate and/or additional wilderness or destinations that limit our management.
▶ 0:47:19Mr. French: While our written testimony details local concerns in general, we support land conveyances, transfers and disposals that make sense for our communities. In my experience, the legislative language directing these actions can often directly affect the agency timelines to complete them. We want to make sure that we're responsive and we meet your expected time frames established through the bill.
▶ 0:47:41Mr. French: For that reason, we hope to work with you to ensure the bill language directing these actions facilitate prompt execution through the use of consistent language that streamlines our process requirements, reduces burden on agency resources, and effectively achieves the congressional intent. That concludes my testimony. I look forward to your questions and the opportunity to testify here today.
▶ 0:48:02Chair Barrasso: Thanks very much. Ms. regan?
▶ 0:48:07Ms. Regan: Thank you, good morning chairman barrasso, ranking member cortez masto, and members of the subcommittee. I am julie regan, executive director of the tahoe regional planning agency. I am prepared for 3695, so I will cede my time to others until that is called further in the program. Thank you.
▶ 0:48:29Chair Barrasso: Senator hyde-smith, would you like to talk about your bill before we go to the questions?
▶ 0:48:34Sen. Hyde-Smith: I would, thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you for these witnesses who are willing to do what you're doing and all the services that you provide, but for your dedication. It's much appreciated. I do appreciate the opportunity to speak on the american shores protection act of 2025 that would codify the 2020 memorandum that placed a moratorium on oil and gas leasing in the eastern gulf of america.
▶ 0:49:06Sen. Hyde-Smith: The moratorium still remains in effect today, and the bill comes as the bureau of ocean energy management continues to advance the draft proposed program for the 11th national outer continental shell oil and gas leasing program. The proposal fulfills the statutory responsibility, and it allianz with president trump's executive order, unleashing american energy, what I've been so anxious to do.
▶ 0:49:35Sen. Hyde-Smith: The proposal considers all potential options in federal waters that could benefit the american people, expanding opportunities in the gulf could help meet growing energy demands, create jobs and support refiners along the gulf coast. Additionally sales would help fund the land and water conservation fund benefiting states across the country, not just mississippi.
▶ 0:49:59Sen. Hyde-Smith: Congress should allow the process to proceed without restricting the administration's authority. Thank you begun, Mr. chairman, I hope congress continues exploring policies that strengthen american energy production on behalf of all americans, and again, thank you for being here.
▶ 0:50:19Chair Barrasso: Thank you, senator hyde-smith. Senator murkowski, would you like to make an opening statement or prefer we proceed to the questioning? Your choice.
▶ 0:50:28Sen. Murkowski: Let's proceed with questioning.
▶ 0:50:31Chair Barrasso: We talk about some of the things you mentioned in your testimony. In almost half the land in wyoming is owned by the federal government. Most of the states, the federal government is the number one landlord. Public places that people from wyoming depend on accessing livelihoods, congress directed grazing, timber harvesting, recreation to occur on these federal lands.
▶ 0:50:53Chair Barrasso: National grasslands all under a different authority, and therefore, there's no certainty when it comes to grazing permittees and the certainty you talked about in your testimony. Can you please describe the importance of certainty for you and other permittees on the national grasslands?
▶ 0:51:08Mr. Checketts: It's so important this bill passes. Let me explain. Currently, our grazing agreement can be cancelled within 30 days. 30-day notice. Imagine running a business where all you have is a 30-day guarantee. Many ranchers such as myself have debts. Many ranchers have obligations. We all have families to feed, cows to take care of.
▶ 0:51:32Mr. Checketts: Think about the local economies, the schools, the hardware stores, dealerships. Our local economies require ranching. We have to have ranching to support our rural way of life. It's the backbone of america. Some of the finest people I know are those who work every day out there taking care of our land to make it better for generations to come.
▶ 0:51:58Chair Barrasso: I'm going ask you what you actually have to go through each time a permit comes up for renewal, because national grasslands and national forest fall under jurisdiction of the forest service. They're not required to renew permits or allow grazing on the national grasslands. Tell me what you have to go through.
▶ 0:52:15Mr. Checketts: I'm going to tell you a personal story. In 2022, with the thunder basin grazing association went to renew our permits, there was a disagreement between our friends at the forest service. We were simply told that if we did not sign, that we would be trespassing. So we signed under duress, and I'll tell you, it's a stressful time for us. It's a stressful time for the forest service.
▶ 0:52:40Mr. Checketts: Passing this bill will help us so that we have long-term sustainability on the 10-year deal, but that's something else we should work on too.
▶ 0:52:49Chair Barrasso: You talked about the benefits to the local communities, the ranching and agriculture. Could you also talk about how cattle grazing helps the national grasslands?
▶ 0:53:00Mr. Checketts: I tell you what, ranchers are the original conservationists. Nobody loves the land more than we do. Every day we work to protect the land, to preserve it, to make it better, and to make it sustainable for our cattle, for our families, for our livelihoods, for the sportsmen thatten joy it. It helps with invasive species, as we graze, it helps protect against cheat grass.
▶ 0:53:25Mr. Checketts: Grazing protects against wildfires that destroy our local economies and cost millions of dollars each year.
▶ 0:53:36Chair Barrasso: Chief french, to follow occupy what we just heard, federal grazing permits from the U.S. forest service can be obtained by both national forest land, national grassland, currently a lack of certainty that we're hearing about for the communities and for the ranchers, and lack of clarity for the permittees who wish to renew or obtain permits. How does the forest service undergo permit renewals for national forest land compared to the grasslands?
▶ 0:54:01Mr. French: It's under two different statutes. Mr. check sets right. There shouldn't be two different standards. They should be treated the same. We would like to administer them in the same way.
▶ 0:54:10Chair Barrasso: In terms of wild fire, the united states forest service manages 193 million acres of land. 154 national forests, 20 national grasslands, including thunder basin national grassland in my home state of wyoming. Wildfires across the united states burn millions of acres every year, land at risk, homeowners at risk, ranchers. How does grazing on the forest service land actually help mitigate fire risk?
▶ 0:54:40Mr. French: It reduces fine fuels that carry those fires. It reduces dead fuels that often are carrying those fires. Most of those grassland systems, they evolved over time with fire as a part of them. And with heavy grazing. It's a national part of the system. It helps.
▶ 0:55:01Chair Barrasso: Mr. checketts, anything else I'd like to add?
▶ 0:55:04Mr. Checketts: This is so important, senator, to take care of the ranchers, the local economies, I'm so passionate about ranching. It is the backbone of america. As you know in our home state of wyoming, there's 500,000 scheme a million cows. -- 500,000 people and a million cows. Everything people use every day has beef in it, whether it's makeup, shampoo, glycerine. I mean, beef is important.
▶ 0:55:30Chair Barrasso: It's what's for dinner.
▶ 0:55:33Mr. Checketts: Beef, beef, beef. Beef.
▶ 0:55:35Chair Barrasso: Thank you. Senator cortez masto?
▶ 0:55:38Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you to the panelists. Ms. regan, let me ask you a couple of questions. I appreciate you're here to talk about the modernization act. To start with, why is the santini burton modernization act necessary, if you would address that. And then also, how it differs from the original act from 1980.
▶ 0:56:00Ms. Regan: Thank you, senator cortez masto. Again, good morning, chairman barrasso, ranking member, and members of the subcommittee. Julie regan here, executive director of the tahoe regional planning agency. I will give you some brief introductory remarks, and then continue to fine tune this question. Our agency was formed by an interstate compact between california and that have and ratified by congress in 1969.
▶ 0:56:25Ms. Regan: Our mission is to protect lake tahoe, a federally designated outstanding national resource water, while supporting our local communities and economy. I do appreciate the opportunity to address your questions in the committee today and support of the santini burton modernization act as 3695, a bistate, bipartisan bill of the upmost importance to lake tahoe.
▶ 0:56:49Ms. Regan: The tahoe basin is the ancestral and current home of the washoe people. Tahoe is also the second deepest lake in the united states and one of the clearest large lakes in the world. Tahoe is nearly 200 miles and straddles the border of california and nevada. And it's more than 6,200 feet in elevation in the sierra nevada mountain range.
▶ 0:57:15Ms. Regan: Tahoe welcomes millions of visitors every year to our public lands, outdoor recreation and tourism drive our $5 billion annual economy. This in turn supports our small year round population of 55,000 people. Tahoe also boasts a sizable community of second homeowners who hail from nearly every state in the nation. Today, nearly 80% of the tahoe basin is owned and management by the united states forest service, but it has not always been like this.
▶ 0:57:45Ms. Regan: The first public lands in the lake tahoe basin were established in 1889 as the reserve with no access to lake tahoe's beaches. By 1960, just 50% of the tahoe basin was publicly owned. The 1980 santini burton act was essential to the conservation and public lands success story.
▶ 0:58:08Ms. Regan: Under the law, funds from the authorized sales of federal lands in clark county, nevada, were appropriated to the forest service to acquire more than 16,000 acres of land in the tahoe basin. Through conservation and ongoing management, these public lands protect lake tahoe's clarity and are critical in community forest health and wild fire prevention and offer world-class recreation opportunities.
▶ 0:58:34Ms. Regan: However, changes to the law, decades ago inadvertently limited the law's scope so funds could only be used to acquire land, but not to manage them. The lack of management funding contributes to negative environmental community and economic impact across the region. If enacted, modernization would free up existing funding for ongoing land management, allowing the tahoe base town complete more lake saving environmental improvement projects.
▶ 0:59:03Ms. Regan: Projects that protect tahoe's famed clarity, improve recreation access, manage forests and reduce wild fire risk. The modernized bill enables the wash owe tribe of nevada and california to make a meaningful step toward achieving advancing national traditional knowledge for forest health management and restoring tribal stewardship on their lands. The bill maintains the 1980 federal land sale boundaries in clark county and adds no new costs to taxpayers.
▶ 0:59:35Ms. Regan: The san afternoonee burton modernization act is the product of a multiyear collaboration by our agency, tahoe state and local governments, and the public, the washoe tribe of nevada and california, nonprofits, and the private sector. The bill also requires ongoing local input through an annual spending plan and partnership with state and local jurisdictions. In 1980, congress had a bold vision, transforming tahoe into the national treasure that it is today.
▶ 1:00:04Ms. Regan: Thanks to santini burton, tahoe's unique character continues to be of national significance. But the threats to the lake require new solutions, solutions that the san afternoonee burton modernization act can help deliver. I appreciate the consideration of this committee today. Hopefully you all have the opportunity to visit soon. Samuel clemens, mark twain, is a local legend in nevada and the tahoe basin.
▶ 1:00:32Ms. Regan: He described the power of spending time at lake tahoe when he wrote three months of camp life on lake tahoe would restore an egyptian mummy to his pristine vigor and give him an appetite like a alligator. Quite a description.
▶ 1:00:46Ms. Regan: I appreciate the opportunity to now answer your direct question and the main difference that I would like to point out as a summary of my testimony, senator cortez masto and members of the committee, is that the challenges are very different today in 2026 than they were in 1980.
▶ 1:01:03Ms. Regan: I will use a prop to demonstrate the power of the iphone, which did not exist in 1980, and now with instagram and social media, people descend in certain places all at one time, too many places, too many impacts to our natural resources.
▶ 1:01:21Ms. Regan: We are actually having resources degraded on our public lands, and the funds that were used to acquire those lands cannot be used to maintain those lands and to take care of the natural resources. That is the main difference. And another issue is our wild fire protection and the ability to actively manage lands purchased under the sale of san tino burton funds -- santini burton funds.
▶ 1:01:50Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me ask one final question. Discuss the difference between the funding at that lake tahoe restoration act provides versus what santini burton modernization act provides.
▶ 1:02:02Ms. Regan: Thank you for the question. The lake tahoe restoration act, which you championed and our colleagues across the delegation in california and nevada has been vital to the protection of the lake's clarity, our forest health, fighting invasive species, and these programs are capital, very large capital investment programs and projects.
▶ 1:02:28Ms. Regan: The santini burton modernization act would allow maintenance to support those investments, making good on those investments, and it's a different suite of impacts that we're seeing the restoration act will not address the recreational impact, but the santini burton modernization act funds would support maintenance and protection of our recreation assets. It will allow more public access in the future.
▶ 1:02:53Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you.
▶ 1:02:55Chair Barrasso: Senator murkowski?
▶ 1:02:57Sen. Murkowski: Thank you, Mr. chairman, and I appreciate you and the ranking member for holding the hearing and including as 2554, the alaskan native equity act on the agenda. This is legislation that has been cosponsored by the entire alaska delegation. There's a companion in the house.
▶ 1:03:21Sen. Murkowski: This is legislation that we dub our landless legislation, and we're seeking to resolve an injustice that's been around for about a half a century now in southeast alaska, for reasons that are perhaps unknown and still debated, there's five communities, the community of haines, petersburg and rangel that were omitted from the authorization to form village corporations back in 1971.
▶ 1:03:51Sen. Murkowski: And as a result, the alaska natives in these communities have not received the lands that they were entitled to that other alaska natives received a long time ago, and that's left a situation that has just been unfair, wrong in my view, and something that needs to be addressed and it's our responsibility in this committee to attempt to do that. That's what this bill does. It allows formation of five urban corporations.
▶ 1:04:18Sen. Murkowski: It specifies the compact parcells -- parcels of land that have been selected to fulfill the land entitlement. And importantly, it does so while fully protecting public access, valid existing rights, including for fishing, hunting, recreation, and it's about 115,000 acres of land for the landless communities, and some of you may see, that seems like a lot.
▶ 1:04:42Sen. Murkowski: But in alaska or the southeast region, or even the federal holdings in southeast, which total about 21.9 million acres, what we're talking about here for this landless group is about .5% going to rightful native ownership, while about 190 times more stays under federal control.
▶ 1:05:05Sen. Murkowski: We have worked really hard over the years to bring this legislation to a place where people who are looking at it can say this is fair and this is something that I can support. We refined it, worked it over and over again. This committee has seen this issue before us multiple times. We've held committee hearings on it over and over. In 2015, 2023 today, as a little bit of a rerun here.
▶ 1:05:35Sen. Murkowski: But the changes that we have incorporated have been based on what we have heard from many, identifying the challenges, turning them around, and really turning opponents into supporters. Among them, believe it or not, the nature conservancy.
▶ 1:05:52Sen. Murkowski: They wrote us a letter back in 2023 which we reported to the bill with its passage, and it's part of that letter -- and as part of that letter, they say to often advocacy in the united states has intentionally sought to undermine the rights of indigenous peoples in the name of conservation. This has caused tremendous harm to alaska people and their traditional homeland. The legacy of this power dynamic continues to this day.
▶ 1:06:17Sen. Murkowski: With this history in mind, publicly affirms our support for resolution for the llamas community in southeast alaska. In assessing this legislation, we hope the voices that are most important to this committee are not those of conservation groups, but rather, those of the sovereign nations in southeast alaska for whom this has been a generation-long injustice. That's from the nature conservancy.
▶ 1:06:43Sen. Murkowski: The wilderness society also wrote a letter apologizing to the landless people for the hurt caused by their past opposition and declaring their support for the bill. So we have come a long way, colleagues. I'm going to ask unanimous consent to add those letters from the nature conservancy and the wilderness society to the hearing record.
▶ 1:07:05Chair Barrasso: Without objection.
▶ 1:07:06Sen. Murkowski: I would ask colleagues, take a look at them. See the legislation through the eyes of some of these conservation groups that are really following this issue for a long, long time. I think we worked to strike the proper balance, and we're doing right by a special place. We know every acre is important to somebody. And particularly to those who have lived there since time and memorial. I want to ask one quick question to you, Mr. french.
▶ 1:07:37Sen. Murkowski: You know this issue very, very well. You have been around it a long time. In your testimony, you acknowledge the special relationship. You acknowledge the role that the tongas plays in the economic health and prosperity of the region's community.
▶ 1:07:59Sen. Murkowski: You point out that you're looking forward to discussing with the subcommittee the implications of the bill, particularly to the timber program on the tongass. I guess the direct question is, does the U.S. forest service, does usda support our landless legislation?
▶ 1:08:22Mr. French: Thank you, senator, for the question. And you're right, we've spent years working through the details and the individual parcels. We completely understand the need and the whole delegation's approach on this, and we're very appreciative. We don't oppose the bill. We want to make sure that everybody does understand there are parts of this that will impact some planned timber sales, and as long as everybody knows that, we look forward to working with you moving forward.
▶ 1:08:53Sen. Murkowski: Again, I would just remind that the parcels that have been identified have gone through a very laborious, thorough, open process in terms of identification. So I would like to think that we can work with the forest service to deconflict in these areas. So you've committed to working with us, and I appreciate that.
▶ 1:09:26Sen. Murkowski: B.l.m. Has also committed to working with us on some technical modifications. We think that we are in pretty good shape, because you've been working with us again, whether it's technical modifications or with regards to actual selection.
▶ 1:09:41Sen. Murkowski: So my goal is to finally bring this home, that after decades of a long-standing injustice, that the people in these communities are finally able to have the equity that they deserve, and I would like to think that our agencies are going to be partners with us in achieving just that along with this committee. Thank you.
▶ 1:10:08Sen. Heinrich: Thank you, ranking member. Mr. french, we've seen a pretty substantial cut in the workforce in new mexico in the forest service. We've seen that on the santa fe, we've seen it on the carson national forest, lincoln, it's been felt across the system from issues like trail maintenance to processing permits for outfitter guides to wildfire preparedness.
▶ 1:10:40Sen. Heinrich: The bills that we're talking about today direct your agency to do a number of things, to take actions and undertake new endeavors and new policies, all of which require an adequate workforce.
▶ 1:10:55Sen. Heinrich: How many national forest system staff would actually be needed to fulfill your mission, all of the things that the congress has tasked the national forest system to do, and to properly manage the roughly 193 million acres of land that the U.S. forest service manages.
▶ 1:11:17Mr. French: That's a big question.
▶ 1:11:25Mr. Heinrich: I bet the forest service has looked at this.
▶ 1:11:27Mr. French: If you look at the requirements of statutes of what we're told and asked to accomplish, the needs for funding and staffing far exceed the requirements that are placed on us to manage those to standard. We manage the largest trail system in the country, 165,000 miles of trails. And yet the staffing that we have and the budget that we have, we struggle to maintain up to a third of it a year.
▶ 1:11:58Mr. French: I mean, we are working to overcome the things you just talked about. Today we're announcing 2,000 summer hires, recreation hires, to assist us in overcoming that work. We've been in a place of getting our workforce to a more sustainable level to the budget we have. But we have done that work. We can certainly share it with you. I'm not prepared today to give
▶ 1:12:24You -- Sen. Heinrich: I would appreciate it if you can share that work with us. Do we pay our firefighters enough?
▶ 1:12:32Mr. French: In my opinion? No. I want to be thoughtful here, because I don't have with me a particular position from an administration, but as a past firefighter myself, when I look at what we ask them to do and watching over the last 20 years, our fire seasons are becoming lalarger and larger, putting moe and more demands on them and their families. And when I look at what is being compensated at state levels, I think there's work to do there.
▶ 1:13:03Mr. Heinrich: Mr. raby, same question. You managed, the b.l.m. Manages 246 million acres. How many folks would reneed to adequately manage that?
▶ 1:13:20Mr. Raby: Thanks for the question. We have an organization of about 9,000 employees to manage 245 million acres. We receive about $5.75 per acre to manage these lands. We've always been a lean organization. We've been very focused again on our mission delivery.
▶ 1:13:44Mr. Raby: And at the same time, ensuring that we have organizational efficiency and workforce optimization. So again, we've always had these sort of competing objectives at times, but they're complementary objectives as well. So while, again, we may not have always received what we may have desired, we can't look on ourselves and say we are going to be woeful about what we don't have.
▶ 1:14:11Mr. Raby: We are very focused on what we do have, and we set our priorities accordingly, and, of course, we're fully staffed in our wild and fire organization, as well as law as well as law enforcement, and energy and then we certainly rely on our partners help us between state and local organizations as well.
▶ 1:14:32Sen. Heinrich: The partials that were identified, they make up roughly the lower 4000 acres. One of my concerns is that they are scattered through residential neighborhoods. The impact of a gravel mine amongst a residential community would be felt pretty acutely. Residents are rightly worried about health impacts, noise, pollution as well as disruption to wildlife in the area.
▶ 1:15:02Sen. Heinrich: That is the reason why there is, to my knowledge no real opposition to this legislation. Literally a gravel lying down the road that is very successful and people are ok with because it is not in the middle of a residential community. Do you think it is an appropriate place for a gravel mine?
▶ 1:15:26Mr. Raby: Thank you for the question. -- what we believe is responsible development, that can take into account considerations --
▶ 1:15:45Sen. Heinrich: I'm sorry Mr. raby. How is it responsible to put a very noisy very particulate heavy industrial activity in the middle of a suburban neighborhood? I don't understand the responsible part of that statement.
▶ 1:15:59Mr. Raby: We go through a lengthy process between --
▶ 1:16:04Sen. Heinrich: I know about the process because I heard it from all of the communities in the area. I don't know of anyone who supports this. Your position has literally no community support. Do you listen to the community before you make a decision like that?
▶ 1:16:20Mr. Raby: Of course we listen to the community. We have local officers, field managers who are engaged with the community, and they have to account for the national policy direction. We have a declared national energy emergency.
▶ 1:16:40Sen. Heinrich: How does producing gravel solve the national energy emergency?
▶ 1:16:43Mr. Raby: It is a mineral resource that provides opportunity for development.
▶ 1:16:49Sen. Heinrich: Which we produce five miles away and abundance -- in abundance. My point is your policy in this case is completely disconnected from the local community. While we have very wide opinions on this committee, where we get crosswise is when there is a federal policy dictated from washington, D.C.
▶ 1:17:19Sen. Heinrich: That is -- and this is where senator murkowski and I actually agree. Where senator daines and I agree. We get in trouble is when we don't listen to the local community. In this case it is my view that the administration and the blm is completely ignoring the local community.
▶ 1:17:48Sen. Heinrich: Ranking member cortez masto, I want to enter into the record all of the community groups from local tribes to the county to the local municipality, to the neighborhood association that this would impact, their views on the buffalo track protection act.
▶ 1:18:06Sen. Cortez Masto: Without objection.
▶ 1:18:09Chair Barrasso: Any other questions?
▶ 1:18:11Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you for the opportunity. Mr. french, something similar on the same vein you are hearing from some of my colleagues. I want to talk about s 1349, the ruby mountain protection act.
▶ 1:18:32Sen. Cortez Masto: In december, senator heinrich had asked you hear about the agency decision to rescind a land withdrawal for the watershed in new mexico, and at that time you replied viewed administration policy is to preserve the spaces that we have right now for future development until such time that we understand what our current mineral development -- the agency however, also rescinded an administrative withdrawal for the ruby mountains in northern nevada.
▶ 1:19:02Sen. Cortez Masto: I know you are familiar because we have talked about it. The agency already understands the current mineral development potential in the rubies because under the first trump administration, the forest service released a decision saying with the overall unfavorable conditions and the no to low potential for oil and gas, these lands have low energy resource values.
▶ 1:19:30Sen. Cortez Masto: Offering low resource value lands would not be in the best interest of the public from an environmental and industrial perspective. This is merely a codification of the trump administration's findings in 2017. My question to you is why are we still here with the withdrawal, why are we still fighting this and why are we still opposed to moving forward?
▶ 1:19:52Mr. French: I understand why you are asking that question. That was the decision in 2019. That decision remains, and will continue to protect in that local way, further development of oil and gas.
▶ 1:20:13Mr. French: What we are talking about here is where a national policy approach, which from the administration is about making sure that we maintain flexibility for future mineral development, allying with policies that doing something through administrative or legislative withdrawal does not take into account the local needs. I think that was part of the conversation that was happening to understand that.
▶ 1:20:44Mr. French: In this case, you are seeing a statement that in general does not support any sort of withdrawals, but it does not change the fact of that 2019 decision that we made that finding, but essentially limits oil and gas in the ruby mountains.
▶ 1:21:02Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me jump to you Mr. raby. The blm introduced segregation to administer a 20 year public land withdrawal from the national wildlife refuge that had been threatened by mining proposals to drill into the sensitive groundwater system which could dry up springs that are the core of this refuge. It is well-known the devil's whole unit, death valley national park is the lifeblood of the surrounding area.
▶ 1:21:32Sen. Cortez Masto: Local community leaders are in unanimous consent to see this withdrawal. It is unclear if anything has taken place. I'm disappointed in the ruby mountains withdrawal decision. I don't quite understand it. I'm glad the segregation for ash meadows has remained in effect. I'm curious why there is a difference. Can you give me the status of the withdrawal?
▶ 1:22:02Mr. Raby: The status is that the segregation is still in place. It is in about 14 months of the two-year partial segregation. We continue to work with our partners in the fish and wildlife, the evaluation of that area.
▶ 1:22:26Mr. Raby: We no longer have the same mining proposal out there currently, so that does not exist out there. So we will take that under consideration as to whether a mineral withdrawal would be appropriate to advise on.
▶ 1:22:44Sen. Cortez Masto: Will you need more time for analysis and if so, would you let us know and seek an extension?
▶ 1:22:50Mr. Raby: Certainly.
▶ 1:22:52Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you.
▶ 1:22:53Chair Barrasso: I think senator daines is on the way down. Any other thoughts that any of you have based on what you've heard from one another today?
▶ 1:23:13Mr. Checketts: Everyone is looking at me, I better say something. [laughter]
▶ 1:23:19Chair Barrasso: In my opinion, this is the key bill of the committee.
▶ 1:23:23Mr. Checketts: Grazing is so important and grazing protects our nation, our food supply. We've seen a lot of things in the news about beef prices, and even with prices the way it is today, it is still tough to make it as a rancher. The beef prices, similar to what it was in 1980. When you add inflation and all the different costs of operating.
▶ 1:23:51Mr. Checketts: To tie it back to the bill, our bill is so important to protect our ranching and our families and the people who work every day to feed this nation, to give us different supplies and I am grateful for our forest service and blm partners. I affectionately say that we own the grass but you guys on the land and I'm grateful for them. Without the forest service and blm, we could not make it work.
▶ 1:24:16Mr. Checketts: What a nice nation this is to have the opportunity to work together with federal lands to make it possible to feed our nation and to allow me as a rancher to do what I love, what I am passionate about, to provide for my cattle and my family. I promise you we take care of the land. We love the land more than anyone and we appreciate that opportunity. It is the honor of our lives and we will take care of it.
▶ 1:24:42Chair Barrasso: You mentioned earlier the best stewards of the land are the people who lived there locally. We talk about the environment and the people who have respect for the environment are the people who live on that land.
▶ 1:24:57Mr. Checketts: I heard these folks talking about fire. We are grateful also for our partnership with the forest service and blm but I want to add something here. The important thing is cooperation and collaboration.
▶ 1:25:10Mr. Checketts: I serve on two different rural fire communities and our partners, and it works so good when we work together and my encouragement to save money would be to have more local leadership with our blm and forest service partners who fight these fires and have these command centers and it is important that they involve the local people.
▶ 1:25:36Chair Barrasso: Thank you, to all of you. We will turn to senator daines. Other members may have additional questions and they will be sent to you. There is a deadline for us to submit those questions of the close of business tomorrow. We ask that you get the answers back to us no later than a week from the end of today.
▶ 1:25:59Sen. Daines: Mr. raby, the blm was directed to identifying lands with wilderness characteristics. Congress has the opportunity to consider adding these lands to the national wilderness conservation system. Today the blm manages 487 areas totaling 11.1 million acres. 37 of those areas are in montana.
▶ 1:26:30Sen. Daines: Until congress decides what to do with the wsa's, the blm continues to manage the area with the status in limbo indefinitely. That study status. My question is Mr. raby, what are the long-term consequences for recreation, forest management and even wildfire response of wilderness study areas not getting resolved?
▶ 1:26:55Mr. Raby: Thank you for the question. Having that wilderness study designation complicates multiple use management. It inherently limits our ability to carry out hazardous fuels reduction treatment, it can affect forest management activities, create limitations on recreation and access.
▶ 1:27:25Mr. Raby: It creates a layer of complicating management direction on areas that as you noted previously, especially these ones in montana, those were never found to be of suitable wilderness characteristics and that has been since 1986. They do complicate management, and the release would help him complicate that.
▶ 1:27:54Sen. Daines: Do you remember who the president was in 1986?
▶ 1:28:00Mr. Raby: I believe that was ronald reagan.
▶ 1:28:03Sen. Daines: So it goes back to the reagan presidency, how long this has been in limbo, and needs to be resolved. This bill I have, we are talking 100,000 acres of 11 million acres that are currently in limbo under the wilderness study designations.
▶ 1:28:26Sen. Daines: Do you agree that congress does need to move forward to finally resolve these 11 million acres currently in limbo, to either put them in permanent wilderness or back to general management?
▶ 1:28:39Mr. Raby: The short answer is yes.
▶ 1:28:42Sen. Daines: Thank you. Deputy chief french, the forest service determined the middle fork judith wilderness study was identified as unsuitable for wilderness over 30 years ago. That was reaffirmed again in the fall of 2021 after extensive public engagement. Could you briefly talk about what led to this determination and what public input there was in that?
▶ 1:29:12Mr. French: Our forest planning process looked at this a second time, the engagement occurred over the course of six years. Many public meetings. I think there were over 100 organizations. We had about 1200 individual comment letters that came in. For the second time, it was found that it didn't have the characteristics to remain as wilderness.
▶ 1:29:43Mr. French: We did our part of what congress asked, but it sits there in this limbo after we did the assessment and it mandates a management that is in line with what the community told us that should be.
▶ 1:29:59Sen. Daines: That is important testimony, that there was a very public process with a lot of public input. With these wsa's, when deemed suitable for wilderness, we should take the next step to make them wilderness but if they are not suitable, we should return them back to general management status, which still has multiple protections. They just won't be managed as de facto wilderness.
▶ 1:30:31Sen. Daines: The forest service also manages three active grazing allotments that cover the majority of the usa. I have a poster board behind me. In 2019 the forest service reported that there is no mining and vegetative management is minimal, though the forest has recommended and I quote, nearly one million board feet of harvest per year for fuels management to help maintain
▶ 1:31:02Sen. Daines: Early successional habitat for elk. My question is, could you confirm for this committee that this continues to be the recommendation and that releasing the middle fork judith back to general management will benefit hazardous fuels reduction and wildlife habitat?
▶ 1:31:22Mr. French: Per my conversations with the forest supervisor when they were doing this plan, generally I would say yes. I haven't heard anything that would change that. We are seeing a need to get in and actively manage these areas that have had no active management.
▶ 1:31:50Sen. Daines: As we say out west in these dry climates, if we are going to get in and proactively manage the forest, or the forest will start to manage us, especially with these catastrophic wildfires we are seeing. How does the current designation affect the grazing allotments and what happens if the wsa is returned to general management?
▶ 1:32:15Mr. French: The things to remember here is that it is being managed as wilderness right now. What that does for us is it changes the way we can access things, the way we can do improvements for our permitees that have ranged allotments. Wilderness requires you to allow what is historically there when it was designated.
▶ 1:32:46Mr. French: It limits our ability for active management in those areas. Even some folks not wanting to see prescribed fire although we can do it. All of that is limited by the designation, to see if it was even suitable for that designation, through a large public process we determined no, twice.
▶ 1:33:10Sen. Daines: Thank you.
▶ 1:33:12Chair Barrasso: Thanks so much to all of you. I appreciate all of your input and testimony. We are looking forward to moving forward so we appreciate your time and this hearing is adjourned.