▶ 0:18:32Communication conference. The world radiocommunication conference convened by the international to medicaid -- telecommunication union is one of the most consequential global forays into spectrum policy. The decisions made shaped the international rules governing how radio frequency spectrum is allocated and shared around the world.
▶ 0:19:03Those decisions have far-reaching implications. For the united states, competitiveness, scientific research, the continued leadership of the united states in a wireless and satellite technologies. Next year's conference will be hosted in shanghai where the chinese communist party will be prepared to advance positions meant to undermine the united states leadership.
▶ 0:19:29The united states must enter these negotiations with a strong position. This requires a tightly coordinated interagency process. This process begins with federal agencies providing technical input and operational perspectives on each agenda item under consideration.
▶ 0:19:54The united states final decision should reflect the full range of national spectrum interests. Among agencies, the department of defense plays a particularly significant role. Dod is the largest federal user of radio frequency spectrum within the federal government.
▶ 0:20:18Many of its most critical capabilities including satellite communication, radar, missile warning systems depend on reliable and interference free spectrum.
▶ 0:20:37As the work agenda looks to address space related services and satellite operations the intersection between international spectrum policy and national security becomes even more pronounced. National security missions simply cannot be engineered around certain commercial spectrum priorities. This is exactly why congress exempted the eight.
▶ 0:21:02Four gigahertz ban last year in addition to the lower three band. Other federal agencies also contribute a sense of expertise to the interagency process. Nasa and noaa depend on whether monitoring systems that are crucial for forecasting and climate observation.
▶ 0:21:33The faa relies on spectrum for aviation safety and navigation systems that support the integrity of the global aviation network. Each of these missions must be carefully considered as the united states and proposed regulatory changes at the international level where they inevitably impact domestic use.
▶ 0:22:01The challenge of the interagency process is to reconcile these diverse needs and translate them into a cohesive position that advances american innovation. This unified position will allow the united states to engage with regional partners with allied nations.
▶ 0:22:31Advocate confidently for outcomes that protect the united states interest. Those interests are substantial. Regulatory frameworks adopted will influence how the next generation satellite constellations operate. Influence the coexistence of emerging communication services and influence how spectrum policy supports economic growth and national security.
▶ 0:23:00That is why preparation for work 27 is not a short-term exercise. Today's committee hearing examines how to support the interagency in the coming months. We all share the goal of advancing U.S. leadership in space. Thank you and I look forward to your testimonies. I recognize my friend and meet ranking member lujan.
▶ 0:23:31Sen. Lujan: Thank you for being available today to discuss how the united states will be preparing for international telecommunications. Used by billions of people that have been critical and shaping the digital economy.
▶ 0:24:00Sen. Lujan: Take that leadership role -- we must not take that leadership role for granted. We must take a look at the role the united states will play. Hosting the conference gives china a clear home-field advantage in a forum that gives enormous geopolitical weight. China represents the standard bodies with strategic areas with geopolitical powers could be built for decades.
▶ 0:24:29Sen. Lujan: Congress has acted to protect our own infrastructure by $4.98 billion for the secure and trusted communications network program with small and rural providers. The people's republic of china has made it a national priority to surpass the united states dominance that will define global connectivity.
▶ 0:24:59Sen. Lujan: Our engagement in the united states matters. Success requires a clearly executed strategy across our government, active partnership with the private sector and most critically strong coalitions with our allies as we are learning in the time that is speaking. The trump administration has been careless and outright reckless in our approach to global relationships.
▶ 0:25:28Sen. Lujan: The president has touted this as america first, the execution is doing real damage to our alliances. The administration has cut tens of billions in global aid, conducted illegal strikes across multiple regions including nigeria and oppose tariffs that are small businesses and families. The logical conclusion is self-imposed isolation to our own detriment.
▶ 0:25:57Sen. Lujan: Congress must ensure the trump administration, fcc and state department are fully coordinated and accountable in their preparation. The united states must engage in the lead up to the conference with clarity and purpose. The outcome is not to be determined but what we know for certain is it will shape the future of global spectrum policy. The united states most advanced and unified strategy to promote U.S.
▶ 0:26:26Sen. Lujan: Innovation and protect our national defense interests. If we fail to act people arrived from shanghai divided and unprepared. Ending our competitors a strategic advantage. What matters now is whether we will step into our role or willingly cede that ground to china. We are fortunate to have an expert panel with us today. I thank you all for being here.
▶ 0:26:56Chair Fischer: Thank you. I would like to introduce our witnesses for today. Our first witness is ambassador grace koh. Former head the U.S. delegation to the 2019 world radiocommunication conference. She managed interagency discussions to develop united states positions, oversight negotiations at the conference.
▶ 0:27:28Chair Fischer: She currently serves as vice president of government affairs at siena. Our next witness is stephen lang . Senior advisor of policy. In this capacity he led the united states delegations to several international conferences including the 2023 world radiocommunication conference. He currently serves as a senior advisor at crest hill advisors. Our third witness is Dr.
▶ 0:27:56Chair Fischer: James lewis, a distinguished fellow at the center for european policy. His current work focuses on strengthening americans for policy and examining how innovation shapes global competition. Our final witness is Mr. michael calabrese. Am I saying that correctly? Calabrese.
▶ 0:28:27Chair Fischer: I was trying to be east coast. I'm sorry. Mr. michael calabrese. Close. Director of wireless and senior advisor of technology at new america. With that, you are recognized for five minutes to give your opening statement.
▶ 0:28:49Ambassador Koh: Thank you for the opportunity to testify in U.S. leadership at the conference 2027. I am vice president of government relations at siena. I am here in my personal capacity. I will make two points.
▶ 0:29:21Ambassador Koh: Why it is essential and why it is so hard. While we must prepare early given the added risks of shanghai. The world radiocommunication conference is among the most technically complex treaty negotiations in the world. These outcomes are almost always reached by consensus.
▶ 0:29:47Ambassador Koh: A vote is widely viewed as a failure because the system cannot work without broadband. Spectrum rolls only matter, signals cross borders, satellites operate globally. Dissenting countries would have little incentive to comply. Consensus produces durable rules but it is hard.
▶ 0:30:18Ambassador Koh: In the united states, they pull together agencies, private sector stakeholders with competing priorities. Carriers want capacity for local networks. Federal agencies must protect missions tied to national security, aviation safety. In reconciling those interests takes time. Parties test limit and hold positions.
▶ 0:30:49Ambassador Koh: Progress requires credible analysis and requires making hard goals. By the time we arrive with a proposal the toughest objections have been surfaced and addressed. We show up with a position that is technically credible. We must turn those different proposals in four weeks.
▶ 0:31:17Ambassador Koh: Days could run late into the night. Consensus is usually reached because everyone understands the alternative. For work 27, the take away is simple. Consensus takes sustained work with other delegations. Here's why, shanghai adds an operational and political risk. Including the fact that this has interests that differ from ours.
▶ 0:31:50Ambassador Koh: The devices and communications might be monitored and that raises significant security risks for a delegation that depends on laptops and technical documents. We should also plan on constrained connectivity. They may not work reliably. He experts need to be on the ground to respond to late-breaking proposals. They may further limit discussions.
▶ 0:32:21Ambassador Koh: The response is preparation. Sensitive policy issues earlier, resolve them early or in shanghai. Name the delegation had early. Staff the delegation to cover parallel sessions and train the team throughout the cycle. Issue clear guidance on cybersecurity, at the conference in force information handling practices. The state department will have to intensify its engagement with I.t.
▶ 0:32:50Ambassador Koh: Leadership to protect the transparent rules-based conflict and plan now with like-minded partners for contingencies like unexpected political disruptions. Early decisions also let U.S. negotiators build support and shape priorities, that requires fostering leadership at the ncaa and ncc.
▶ 0:33:17Ambassador Koh: They do not have a confirmed administrator, the fcc function authority had lapsed. Thankfully congress has restored this and confirmed it. Going forward both agencies should be expected to represent federal and private sector entities. We enter the work 27 cycle with major strikes.
▶ 0:33:47Ambassador Koh: If we start early and plan rigorously, they are innovation for potential security. Thank you and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:33:59Chair Fischer: Thank you. You were right on point there. Welcome, you are now recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:34:12Ambassador Lang: Thank you. I'm honored and grateful for the opportunity to share my perspectives on this important topic. I have the honor of leading our delegation to the 2023 world radio conference. After a 30 year career serving under five presidents. No I'm not testifying on behalf of crest hill advisors.
▶ 0:34:44Ambassador Lang: It may be the most consequential negotiation most people have ever heard of. Itu members negotiate updates to the international radio regulations which is an instrument that allocates, organizes, radio frequency spectrum to prevent interference and promote interoperability. Spectrum is a finite resource.
▶ 0:35:07Ambassador Lang: With rapid advancement in data technology and accelerating growth, it is increasingly precious to an ever-growing number of industries, agencies, scientists, and consumers. Radio has allowed industries ranging from mobile phones to wi-fi to achieve global economies driving billions of dollars in investment.
▶ 0:35:34Ambassador Lang: It ensures our military is radar and communication systems could operate reliably and without interference. The wrc is critical to unlocking the economy to new satellite technologies to a presence on the moon. Like other multilateral bodies the itu and wrc are flawed. No other mechanism could realistically open global markets to wireless services.
▶ 0:36:02Ambassador Lang: Private companies can join the itu as sector members and participate. An unusual feature for an organization that has worked to our advantage. The stakes are high. China is promoting its approach to technology around the world. An approach that uses technology to restrict speech. It has targeted the itu as a venue for expanding reach.
▶ 0:36:30Ambassador Lang: It is a significant blow to interest when they voted to accept china's offer to host in shanghai. The chinese officials could now be the representative chair of the conference will be a serious concern. These potential obstacles must not deter us. They should drive the united states to recommit to winning. China's offer to host in the first place was motivated by the successful U.S.
▶ 0:36:57Ambassador Lang: Effort in 2022 to replace the chinese secretary-general with a uniquely qualified american citizen and former department of commerce official. China's offer to host was aimed at reasserting its influence. Effective leadership and a high level commitment to success united states could achieve all of its objectives at wrc 27. There are more critical steps the U.S. government must do.
▶ 0:37:29Ambassador Lang: If the pressure on china. China won the vote to host by a narrow margin of 25 votes. Its legitimacy as host is already question. We must continue to hold china accountable and pressed like-minded partners to do the same. Second, accelerate U.S. preparations.
▶ 0:37:54Ambassador Lang: The delegation of the past has too often been at a disadvantage by delays in developing U.S. positions. Senior leadership including the fcc and department of commerce defense and state need to commit with white house support to developing U.S. positions as early as possible. Build coalitions early. We cannot win this contest without transit allies that have shared these priorities.
▶ 0:38:23Ambassador Lang: The earlier we start building coalitions at persistent high-level diplomatic engagement , the more successful we will be. Finally identifying leadership now. I understand the administration has been working to identify the head of delegations and I hope we will see an announcement soon. The sooner that happens, the better.
▶ 0:38:45Ambassador Lang: It will be critical to make sure he or she has the right team in place and is resourced and engage diplomatically on a global scale. The itu is far from perfect. It is frustrating and difficult. With a high level commitment the united states could emerge stronger and more competitive. Thank you, we look forward to your questions. >> next we have Dr. lewis. Welcome and you are recognized.
▶ 0:39:17Dr. Lewis: I think the committee for the opportunity to testify. The environment in shanghai, issues for constellations, process goals from the wrc. The economic opportunities and security administrations. The suppliers of ubiquitous connectivity.
▶ 0:39:46Dr. Lewis: This is perhaps the subtext that drives the work. It is a central part of competition with china. China recognizes the importance of technological leadership. We use this to shape the conference and strengthen the itu. Negotiating with china poses unique security challenges.
▶ 0:40:19Dr. Lewis: It is subject to technologies that allow for surveillance suggesting even physically securing the price as inefficient. U.S. could help reduce this risk by ensuring delegations are aware by suggesting possible means to counteract it. The outcome will be shaped partially by international relations 18 months from now. Negotiating will be difficult but not impossible.
▶ 0:40:50Dr. Lewis: One important point to make is the U.S. could insist on equitable processes and emphasize the need for the chinese to play by the rules and respect consensus. Sovereignty and competition are defined by issues. China and other nations suffer fearing the U.S. commercial bonds with low-earth orbit.
▶ 0:41:20Dr. Lewis: Roughly 2003 satellites. They don't actually have the satellites in orbit. Another issue will be how to regulate satellite providers. One controversial proposal suggests requiring national approval for operations. This is an effort with starling. Finding a way to accommodate sovereignty without putting U.S.
▶ 0:41:49Dr. Lewis: Companies at a disadvantages one of the challenges. Spectrum allocations I don't need to tell you, they are always contentious. This will be the last work. If that is true, this will be the last work before it is deployed. Spectrum disputes will be similar to the issue seen previously on these 5g spectrum. Chief among these is the U.S.
▶ 0:42:18Dr. Lewis: Government occupies spectrum that other companies -- country cs commercial. China will try to force the U.S. to defend these allocations. The administration is moving quickly and is working to a point that is a valuable first step ahead of the support from the administration congress could ensure consistency in the U.S. position in the U.S. delegation. The next step is to reach consensus on work positions.
▶ 0:42:50Dr. Lewis: Work 27 will require nimble negotiating skills and a willingness to work with our partners.
▶ 0:42:58Chair Fischer: Next we have Mr. calibri's. Welcome, you are recognized.
▶ 0:43:05Mr. Calabrese: The wireless feature program, a nonprofit policy institute here in washington. Decisions concerning the allocation of spectrum for licensed cellular wi-fi and satellite services will have a substantial impact on the global competitiveness of leading U.S. industries.
▶ 0:43:34Mr. Calabrese: The itu's harmonization of spectrum drives global economy to scale consumer products, itu determines whether our nation's dominant satellite providers will have the spectrum and global market access they need to scale up lower cost and innovate both at home and worldwide. It is crucial that the U.S.
▶ 0:44:00Mr. Calabrese: Finalize unified positions on priority issues, select an official far sooner than in the past and consult widely with allies to build coalitions early. To succeed in shanghai we will need to overcome several key challenges. The first is to develop clear, unified U.S.
▶ 0:44:22Mr. Calabrese: Positions as soon as possible so the state department could first submit them for consideration by the group of nations in our own itu agencies. Multiple important issues from agenda items. The most valiant are the itu rules that govern spectrum sharing between stationary satellites and the increasingly prevalent neo-constellations launched by spacex, amazon, and others.
▶ 0:44:54Mr. Calabrese: As the space bureau has acknowledged, the itu's they are overprotective. It remains possible to modernize the satellite spectrum rules. A senior official will lead preparations.
▶ 0:45:22Mr. Calabrese: That is the short-term nature, the U.S. should have that feature delegation onboard at least 12-18 months prior to the conference. The third challenge is the imperative to build coalitions. This was focused initially on consensus among the nations in our own region. A challenge is developing and managing priorities. The U.S.
▶ 0:45:49Mr. Calabrese: Must resist making concessions, particularly early on one set of issues if it undermines another vital industry. The U.S. dominates the world market. China's huawei controls a larger share of the global market and europe's nokia and ericsson combined.
▶ 0:46:18Mr. Calabrese: Not surprisingly china is using the wrc process to push more nations to allocate the upper six gigahertz spectrum for licensed cellular, spectrum allocated for unlicensed and wi-fi use in 2020. This effort undermines six gigahertz as a global superman of the next generation of wi-fi.
▶ 0:46:41Mr. Calabrese: Agenda item 1.7 proposes to change the allocation of 7.1 to 8.1 gigahertz for regions two and three. This is strict -- this would restrict the number of nations to use portions of these to expand wi-fi capacity.
▶ 0:47:04Mr. Calabrese: Mobile industry representatives on the advisory committee support this change despite the fact that the one big beautiful bill excluded 7.4-8.4 gigahertz from reallocation to protect national security operations. As chairman fisher mentioned we believe the U.S. position should pose a change that U.S. law prohibited just nine months ago.
▶ 0:47:36Mr. Calabrese: Moreover the results of the ongoing studies will be available later this year, making a position now other than no change best. It is notable that 80% of the entire wrc agenda is focused on space and neo-satellite issues.
▶ 0:47:59Mr. Calabrese: Three agenda items should be in those priorities because of the potential impact on our world neo-satellite industry. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
▶ 0:48:09Chair Fischer: We will start our first round of questioning now. I will begin, five minutes for questions. Thank you for all of your testimonies. I want to emphasize the point that the united states influence work depends on the strength of the interagency coordination.
▶ 0:48:32Chair Fischer: What happens when other countries perceive that the united states does not fully align its domestic stakeholders before these negotiations begin?
▶ 0:48:49Ambassador Koh: Thank you for the question. I had the honor of representing the delegation, when people perceive the united states government is not aligned, the positions and proposals the U.S. offers at regional conferences are not taken seriously and not considered for adoption by other administrations readily.
▶ 0:49:18Ambassador Koh: This could be countered to some degree by very frank discussions and negotiations between seasoned negotiators who could discuss with each other where things are going. The beautiful -- the beauty of having seasoned professionals at these negotiations.
▶ 0:49:43Ambassador Koh: At the same time the truth is the position is not settled and other delegations can do this where they will. It is to have a seasoned leader thank you.
▶ 0:50:06Chair Fischer: Can you tell me if other teams have their delegations together already?
▶ 0:50:12Ambassador Koh: The others don't have the regulatory structure that the united states does. As every young tele commission's attorney -- telecommunications attorney knows it is through the fcc with federal spectrum. Private spectrum responsibility of the fcc, the two have always been a bit at odds with each other.
▶ 0:50:40Ambassador Koh: Given the value of spectrum resources. As such I did point out in my testimony that the discussion between the entities could be fierce. I must bring the best positions to light. When the resolution does come and it does because the alternative is worse, our positions are stronger.
▶ 0:51:10Chair Fischer: As we look at the priorities, we know national security space operations rely on that 7.4-8.4 gigahertz. That's why it was mentioned. It was excluded from the option authority last year.
▶ 0:51:34Chair Fischer: Could you tell me he has the united states ever gone into world radio communication and advocated for a position that directly contradicts its own domestic product?
▶ 0:51:48Ambassador Koh: No.
▶ 0:51:50Chair Fischer: What would that mean for american leadership globally and our credibility if that would happen?
▶ 0:51:57Ambassador Koh: I think that is self-explanatory. It would undermine our own decisions.
▶ 0:52:06Chair Fischer: Thank you. Dr. lewis when dod needs protecting of radar bands or protecting military satellite communication, they diverge from the global harmonization proposals. How should the delegation balance those tensions at the conference?
▶ 0:52:35Dr. Lewis: So far the U.S. has been successful in defending its national allocations. In some way they permit the country. There is a first mover disadvantage to the U.S. which is with the spectrum allocations for government, decades before other countries. Their position now is diverged. One of the options that has come up in the past is the potential for spectrum sharing.
▶ 0:53:06Dr. Lewis: They have been working on this, every year it gets a little better. At the moment it is in our interest to defend the national allocations. China will try to exploit that. It is an obvious target. You could probably be successful at defending it.
▶ 0:53:28Chair Fischer: That date hasn't come yet to have the technology present. I support that as we continue to look at research and be able to push that goal. Thank you.
▶ 0:53:46Sen. Lujan: Thank you. This question will be for each of the witnesses. In your testimony you laid out the important role the united states played in previous world radio conferences.
▶ 0:54:03Sen. Lujan: However president trump this past january through a recent memorandum announced the united states has been withdrawn from a long list of organizations, conventions, and treaties that are contrary to the interest of the united states. This is in addition to the united states withdrawing from the world health organization. My concern is this, the administration will not have the discipline necessary to be impactful in shanghai.
▶ 0:54:32Sen. Lujan: The question for each of you, what are the consequences if the united states withdraws from the world radio conference?
▶ 0:54:41Ambassador Koh: Thank you. This is a concern that I have long track. The international coordination on satellite nations are not really a policy choice. This is science. It does not respect borders.
▶ 0:55:06Ambassador Koh: Without international coordination, wireless efforts, aviation communications, weather satellites cannot work. Our national security systems depend heavily on our ability to maintain operations.
▶ 0:55:24Ambassador Lang: Thank you for the question. I would also add that we would be seeding the field to china and they would take advantage of that to promote the approach of spectrum allocation which would give its firms a clear allocation in markets around the world.
▶ 0:55:49Dr. Lewis: To be a little contrarian, it was a system that probably needed to be cleared out. I actually got a phone call last week about an agreement I negotiated that is now on the chopping block. It does make some sense. We have 18 months to work this out. Nations will vote for national interests.
▶ 0:56:19Dr. Lewis: If we play the cards right it will not align with china. America first does not necessarily mean america alone.
▶ 0:56:39Sen. Lujan: It is not a good idea of united states would withdraw?
▶ 0:56:42Dr. Lewis: Definitely not.
▶ 0:56:46Mr. Calabrese: There's no question multilateral organizations like the wrc and I.t. You could be very frustrating. We should be very motivated to engage here because as we said spectrum knows no borders. The global harmonization is in the interest of the U.S.
▶ 0:57:14Mr. Calabrese: Probably more than any other country because of economies of scale for some of our largest industries. 80% of the agenda is concerned with satellite issues. We are leading the world on that. The rest of the world is lying in wait to some degree to trip us up, slow us down while they subsidize their national champions in the sky.
▶ 0:57:44Mr. Calabrese: We have to be there at a minimum to defend ourselves.
▶ 0:57:51Sen. Lujan: Why is it important for the white house to nominate the ambassador in the process?
▶ 0:57:56Ambassador Lang: We need leadership in place to oversee the development of our oppositions. Make sure we have unity in our delegation. Most importantly to begin diplomatic engagement throughout the world.
▶ 0:58:16Ambassador Koh: I absolutely agree. We need to bring somebody in early. There is something about having that leader that forces the delegation to pay attention and realize that things are nearing the end. There needs to be a little bit of practice.
▶ 0:58:41Sen. Lujan: I appreciate that. Could you give your top recommendation for 2027?
▶ 0:58:47Ambassador Koh: Prepare early. Especially because this is in shanghai we need to be logistically ready and diplomatically ready.
▶ 0:58:59Ambassador Lang: Accelerating our preparation process, making sure we have our positions in place and then begin that diplomatic engagement.
▶ 0:59:13Dr. Lewis: Early preparation, early appointment of a strong leader.
▶ 0:59:17Mr. Calabrese: Early preparation to the regional process which was very important last time when we had support from our I.t. Regions. The oil position is six months, the person should be on 12-18 months ahead. Establishing these relationships in the americas and then globally.
▶ 0:59:48Sen. Lujan: I look forward to the follow-up. Thank you.
▶ 0:59:52Chair Fischer: As we wait for more, senator blackburn is coming in, would you like us to ask a question before you say? Are you ready to go? Welcome senator blackburn, you are recognized.
▶ 1:00:14Sen. Blackburn: Thank you madam chairman. As many on this panel no I am never short on questions on this topic. I want to come to you first.
▶ 1:00:43Sen. Blackburn: I was very concerned as the departure kind of throwing sticks to the wind. As we were getting ready for the wrc. I thought it was bad timing and a very poor choice and left our nation in a disadvantage position.
▶ 1:01:11Sen. Blackburn: You stepped in, took over, had that short runway. I want you to talk for a moment about your experience and challenges that you have two truncate preparation for the wrc and follow that with why it is important to go and ready for a fight.
▶ 1:01:39Ambassador Lang: Thank you for the question and your support to this important topic. I really appreciate that. It was certainly a challenge stepping in after her confirmation as fcc commissioner. My recommendations for 2027 reflect some of the challenges we have during that experience.
▶ 1:02:07Ambassador Lang: We weren't able to develop our positions as quickly as I would have liked. I was unfortunately unable to fully participate in a robust series of diplomatic engagements.
▶ 1:02:22Sen. Blackburn: I want to ask you to step in. You talked in your response to the chairwoman earlier about seasoned negotiators. I want you to weigh in on what you just said about that preparation, that continuum that is so necessary for that.
▶ 1:02:48Ambassador Koh: Thank you for the question. It was a tough situation that ambassador lang was alluding to. He had been involved in the discussions. This by no means was the ideal situation for the leader of the work delegation for the united states.
▶ 1:03:12Ambassador Koh: Fortunately for us, it does offer a seasoned rank of negotiators and people who are willing to step in to those shoes. They do get activated with the right leadership with the political support above and really good staff to be able to use and deploy with the delegation.
▶ 1:03:39Sen. Blackburn: What kind of challenge did having to do this truncating process actually put you in as you got to the wrc?
▶ 1:03:51Ambassador Lang: One of the greatest challenges was I had not been able to attend one of the meetings. There is a series of regional meetings around the world. I was not able to attend those series. They hadn't fully developed all of the relationships within the conference.
▶ 1:04:19Ambassador Lang: I had a shorter runway and had to do a lot of that on the ground.
▶ 1:04:26Sen. Blackburn: It is not a one and done prep meeting. It is something that depends on the U.S. having a solidified front. A strong position and well seasoned team and imperative that they put their interests first. Correct?
▶ 1:04:51Ambassador Lang: That is correct.
▶ 1:04:55Sen. Blackburn: We have china as the host. This is something that is going to present team efforts -- china is primarily a surveillance state. They don't try to hide that.
▶ 1:05:25Sen. Blackburn: I have supported the development of technology through the technology fund. To be certain they were doing this. We have seen that pay dividends as we looked at the situation.
▶ 1:05:50Sen. Blackburn: As we look at the situation in china with the state mentality that we have, as they go into the wrc.
▶ 1:06:10Dr. Lewis: The last time I was in china, I was annoyed, when I got back a friend told me there surveillance is ubiquitous. The environment you go into with complete coverage by the chinese state. A lot of the smaller nations will have trouble understanding.
▶ 1:06:38Dr. Lewis: The technologies most interested to me, you don't need to cooperate. You could have it planted on your phone. Even if it's not on, that would let it become a communications device. As my colleagues have said, a serious obstacle for the U.S. moving forward.
▶ 1:07:09Sen. Blackburn: How do we mitigate that?
▶ 1:07:12Dr. Lewis: One way is to ensure all of the delegations no that you could overestimate how much people are aware of this threat and do that routinely. It is not clear that every delegation feels that way. They allow them to communicate. Not necessarily the mass-market.
▶ 1:07:45Dr. Lewis: Encouraging people early to think about that level of security. Finally going to be in attention for who we meet with. There are steps you could take to manage the risk. It needs to be done earlier.
▶ 1:08:06Sen. Blackburn: Thank you for letting me go way over.
▶ 1:08:11Chair Fischer: I think we could begin a second round of questions. I understand there are some on the way. I have a question for you. Moving forward, what principles should guide U.S.
▶ 1:08:26Chair Fischer: Policy when commercial demand intersects with bands that support critical national security, how do you balance that out because the united states obviously is advancing very quickly in technology. We have these set up already. How do you deal with that?
▶ 1:08:55Ambassador Lang: Thank you for the question. I don't think there is an easy answer. There always is the trade-off. I believe having spectrum available for commercial use is also important. We have a strong environment for the mission of the united states fueled by spectrum.
▶ 1:09:25Chair Fischer: At past conferences you mentioned negotiations of trade-off and importance of firming up the position within the united states delegation before we get there. How does that support our national security or scientific missions when you have those competing interests, how do you rate them?
▶ 1:09:56Ambassador Koh: Rating the trade-offs is a very difficult question. Thank you for raising this important topic. One of the things that I would constantly say during my time at the delegation is we don't have to do it all. It is not an option to do one or the other. We need to figure out how to have both.
▶ 1:10:23Ambassador Koh: In addition to allocating spectrum for advanced telecommunications. The possibilities are there when we look at technical studies that allow us to understand the parameters to which these services could operate. Spectrum has always been shared.
▶ 1:10:48Ambassador Koh: The problem is do you get everything you want out of your service because you are able to get all of the technical parameters. Will you be able to operate part of your service? There has to be an acceptance of limitations. That's why the technical studies are the political priorities in the public policy priorities the administration brings to bear.
▶ 1:11:16Ambassador Koh: That is why seasoned leadership is important in these discussions.
▶ 1:11:23Chair Fischer: Is it ok if we call on senator rosen?
▶ 1:11:28Sen. Rosen: Thank you. This is such an important issue. It is fundamental to our national security. I want to thank all of the witnesses for having this hearing. It is essential for protecting american investments to protecting investment specifically entrusting technology like wi-fi.
▶ 1:12:01Sen. Rosen: I'm going to ask each of you, I will start with ambassador koh first, the risk of failure. Think about this for a second. I want you to think about some context. The upcoming world radio conference, what are the stakes? What happens if we fail to protect the six gigahertz band and other key bands we are invested in? What would that mean for american leadership and telecom? We want to be the world leader.
▶ 1:12:34Sen. Rosen: We start with you and you only have five minutes. I know it is a very long answer. Maybe you could give some perspective.
▶ 1:12:42Ambassador Koh: Thank you. That is an important question and one of the biggest issues. Obviously the economic impacts will be significant as we have become quite dependent and interested and committed to the use of wi-fi and expanding the use of wi-fi in the united states and put our regulatory efforts behind us.
▶ 1:13:09Ambassador Koh: In addition, I might leave it to others to speak to the reservation process as well. I don't want to take up all the time.
▶ 1:13:24Sen. Rosen: Stakes are really high. We have to succeed.
▶ 1:13:31Ambassador Lang: I would emphasize this is an important arena of competition. China is aggressively approaching technology. They want to see it reflect its own domestic allocations. It would give this company a huge advantage in the international marketplace.
▶ 1:13:52Ambassador Lang: One that would set us back in terms of national security and I actually think it is a potential threat to our democratic values as well.
▶ 1:14:03Dr. Lewis: We have learned from the experience in ukraine and venezuela about the importance of spectrum. Electronic warfare has come out of the closet it's now crucial, click -- secondly what we've seen is a blend of commercial and military technologies.
▶ 1:14:31Dr. Lewis: Success, the chinese and russians know that. They will be trying to exploit that. The outcome of the work will immediately affect our national security and our economic competitors. It's a much more high profile event. The stakes are high on the issue.
▶ 1:14:55Dr. Lewis: We know china will be making an effort to get more countries to opt for an allocation which precludes wi-fi in the upper six gigahertz band. This is one of those issues I mentioned. That are not on the formal agenda. It's not a formal item we should be a priority for the U.S..
▶ 1:15:19Dr. Lewis: Which is to work against china's effort to get more and more countries to jump aboard those footnotes to designate imt and the other six. On the one hand they want to undermine U.S. wi-fi which we lead the world by far in equipment enterprise equipment and chips.
▶ 1:15:44Dr. Lewis: And at the same time they are the only major continent that has not adopted the lower sets for wi-fi.
▶ 1:15:53Sen. Rosen: Lee that is since developed for multiagency process. State department other federal agency industries, stakeholders. How well is the current interagency process functioning as the U.S. prepares for wrc 27 and what can we do to be sure agencies to help ensure that they are coordinating effectively.
▶ 1:16:20Mr. Calabrese: We have a greater challenge because we have a dual trap consultative process as you mentioned. It seems to be going well except for the fact that there are these non-consensus positions on things that don't make sense to me to be non-consensus.
▶ 1:16:42Mr. Calabrese: As chairman fisher mentioned about 7.4 to 8.4 for imt when that was prohibited by one big beautiful act similarly we need to make it more clear defending wi-fi allocation up to at least 7125. The process is going at a pace but it needs to accelerate and become unified.
▶ 1:17:08Sen. Rosen: If there are things we can do to help please let us know.
▶ 1:17:12Chair Fischer: Thank you senator rosen. Hopefully current statute will be a basis from which the delegation can come together and achieve that consensus. So thank you for that. Senator moreno you are recognized.
▶ 1:17:34Sen. Moreno: What are your thoughts on generally speaking getting out of the weeds a little bit on china and how they are doing with collecting communications infrastructure, spyware etc.. >> when the problems we have as
▶ 1:17:56We Attempt -- Dr. Lewis: When I speak -- but they we also can underestimate their ability to improve rapidly. So for a conference occurring in shanghai on chinese networks controlled by the chinese government the risk is immeasurable.
▶ 1:18:17Sen. Moreno: When you travel to china would you take your personal cell phone with you or would you have a different phone that you would use just for their?
▶ 1:18:28Dr. Lewis: One of the trips the chinese complained I did not bring my phone so they gave me a chinese phone.
▶ 1:18:36Sen. Moreno: If I were traveling to china are any of my colleagues were traveling to china would it surprise you that the advice from the military liaison is not to bring our government phone, and not to bring up personal phones?
▶ 1:18:50Dr. Lewis: A friend who works for an intelligence agency this was some years ago seeing how many times his phone was probed between when he got off the airplane and when he got to his hotel. He didn't have to do the full task in four times in the walkway so any device going to china would be subject to some kind of intrusive activity.
▶ 1:19:15Sen. Moreno: Shifting to the world I hold near and dear to my heart which is the auto industry. A lot of automobiles people don't realize how much cars have transition to new tillich munication's devices connected vehicles, things like that. What are your thoughts on where these chinese car manufacturers are doing and why it's so important to keep them out of the U.S. market.
▶ 1:19:42Dr. Lewis: One indication is the chinese and military and government installations. As cars become more and more digital as they are loaded with sensors, many of them have wireless conductivity. The car is now a collection device. The chinese know that. I'm not sure everyone here knows.
▶ 1:20:06Sen. Moreno: Hopefully my colleagues will support my efforts this month and next month to make certain we don't allow the threat of chinese automobiles to enter the U.S. market for the reasons you stated. You're pretty familiar and for the rest of you are with what's happening in other markets with chinese made automobiles with a market share is gone from basically zero to 30 or 40% and climbing. What are your thoughts?
▶ 1:20:33Dr. Lewis: The chinese subsidize in a different fashion from the way the U.S. government subsidies. But it's created rampant competition in china that leads to vicious price cutting and an effort to fight global markets. The term dumping occurs. China itself makes enough cars to supply the entire world, you don't need japan or the U.S..
▶ 1:21:00Dr. Lewis: So they have to find a home for those cars.
▶ 1:21:05Sen. Moreno: From the conversation you just heard anything you'd want to add or subtract?
▶ 1:21:12Ambassador Koh: Thank you for the question senator. This is exactly what china -- for the chinese government this is existential, you need to have a fully functioning economy with the giving and important -- exports so this is not going to change the behavior of the chinese economy.
▶ 1:21:38Ambassador Koh: It is on I think the united states and other like-minded countries to be able to continue the economic aggression that is coming from the country.
▶ 1:21:46Sen. Moreno: I know this is not the topic I will land the plane chairperson. For american auto companies lost $60 million chasing electric vehicle mandates. $60 billion. That is already made our industry less competitive than the chinese who didn't lose $60 billion.
▶ 1:22:14Sen. Moreno: Who actually got massive probably two or three or four acts that subsidies from the government. My question to all of you would be is why on earth would we have a conference in china when they are an obvious bad actor. It would be like the hens having a conference with the wolves. It seems like a bad idea. Thoughts in the last few seconds here.
▶ 1:22:43Dr. Lewis: You don't always win senator and this is the one with the chinese as steve said out of 48 votes the chinese got 25. They won by one vote. It was very close and we just didn't make it.
▶ 1:23:03Chair Fischer: Thank you senator moreno.
▶ 1:23:12Sen. Lujan: This vote happened under president trump's first term. Whoever the present one, this is what happened. I don't need to point fingers at the current president. Every article that I read about this says the chinese conspired with the rwandans. This is normally a consensus vote and you will tell me if I'm wrong about this.
▶ 1:23:40Sen. Lujan: And at the last minute the rwandans withdrew, opened the door for the chinese to roll in and got the bid. I would stand by the united states got rolled and this is something colleagues for us to look to for the next one. Be ready whoever the president is so that the united states is not in this posture or position again. There was a question earlier there was a little critical of the previous president.
▶ 1:24:08Sen. Lujan: I don't think it was that you ambassador lang but question the biden administration that this may be could have gone better. Maybe on the planning side. But let me ask you this. The united states in 23 was the united states able to beat back china's attempts to repurpose the six gigahertz network?
▶ 1:24:30Ambassador Lang: Thank you for the question senator. I believe it important successes in 2023.
▶ 1:24:41Sen. Lujan: What about expanding conductivity?
▶ 1:24:43Ambassador Lang: I think we had success with both with the six gigahertz.
▶ 1:24:49Sen. Lujan: What about unlocking the space economy?
▶ 1:24:53Ambassador Lang: We had some important achievements in 2020 three with regards to satellite communications.
▶ 1:24:58Sen. Lujan: I think elon musk and jeff bezos should be thankful to you. Without the work you did we wouldn't have spacex or amazon launching satellites because of the great work you in the dust you did in space. What about spectrum use for national security?
▶ 1:25:15Ambassador Lang: We were able to make sure to put preserve critical protections as we identified additional spectrum for various telecommunications.
▶ 1:25:24Sen. Lujan: The proof will be what happens after this one. I hope that the list is longer than the one that I just read coming out of 27. What I will say from the critical nature of that question is planning is important.
▶ 1:25:39Sen. Lujan: And this should have been much better under the biden administration on the planning side and I certainly hope the trump administration is taking note to all of your testimony today and also what we learned that could have gone better in preparation in 23. To me it just feels that we are lacking a little bit. And I certainly hope the thoughtfulness of our chair, senator fischer, calling this hearing is a reminder everybody time to get to work, roll up your sleeves and let's get at this.
▶ 1:26:10Sen. Lujan: I appreciate the time for the second round of questions.
▶ 1:26:12Chair Fischer: Thank you senator lujan. If I can close the hearing unless one of our colleagues tries to get in here under the wire. If I can just close the hearing and ask each of you, we talked about this during the hearing how important it is for the delegation to work together with our allies and to be able to have a strong leader.
▶ 1:26:41Chair Fischer: If we can just go down the path here and would you tell me what we need to see in the background of a strong leader. What we need to see in their background that you would hope to see in our delegation that has chosen for this very important work.
▶ 1:27:09Ambassador Koh: I would hope to see a willingness, I think what I would like to see is discretion and willingness to see past the surface arguments.
▶ 1:27:24Chair Fischer: Thank you.
▶ 1:27:27Ambassador Lang: For the head of delegation we need somebody who understands how the telecommunications industry works and how differences in spectrum's work, appreciates important consequences of this event is a great negotiator. He or she will need a team that is fully equipped across the U.S.
▶ 1:27:50Ambassador Lang: Interagency with strong experts, with good negotiation skills they will need to be aggressive and insistent and inserting themselves and every conversation at the wrc. They will also need to be good diplomats. They will also need is a group the resources to engage globally on a diplomatic on a global scale. That going to take significant funding for travel.
▶ 1:28:16Ambassador Lang: There are other creative tools that we should be thinking about for engagement, things like we've heard suggestions of a spectrum summit hosted in the U.S. in advance of the conference. I think it would be a great idea. Opportunities like providing training for other delegation members in advance of the conference. A strong diplomatic strategy leading up to the conference is critical.
▶ 1:28:43Dr. Lewis: Thank you for the question. When you're taught negotiating schools they tell you you're engaged in two simultaneous negotiations. One with the other side and one with the people back home. A negotiator will need to have the authority, the discipline and the skill to make sure the american delegation sticks to consensus positions. It's exceptionally damaging if other agencies go off the reservation and say things that are contrary.
▶ 1:29:15Dr. Lewis: A second part of that is multilateral negotiations or a different art. You need people with some knowledge about multilateral negotiations. I was talking in preparation of this with people who said the skills that you bring to the legislative process need a similar set of skills to cut deals, identify things.
▶ 1:29:41Dr. Lewis: So you need basically a negotiator who has the domestic skills and the international skills. I'm less worried about the technical side. We are not technical experts but the ability to forge that deal or agreement with other countries is essential.
▶ 1:30:00Mr. Calabrese: The early public identification of a leader with all the experience that steve, ambassador lang outlined. But I would add it puts a particular focus on building relationships, diplomatic relationships early starting next month with the americas with these other countries engaging in their perspective.
▶ 1:30:28Mr. Calabrese: We were I think surprised in some cases the last time around mexico and brazil and others and china is going to be trying to pull more of those tricks and so I think very early engagement in relationship building in those places particularly to anticipate where the chinese might have.
▶ 1:30:53Chair Fischer: I appreciate all of the witnesses and their testimony here today thank you. Senators will have until the close of business on march 24 to submit questions for the record. The witnesses will have until the close of business on april 7 to respond to those questions. This concludes today's hearing and the committee stands adjourned.