▶ 0:10:58Chair Rand: Chair rand: the hearing to consider the nomination of markwayne mullin to the department of homeland security will, order. I'm assuming it will commence when he arrives. He's in the hall doing media.
▶ 0:12:15Chair Rand: Good morning, everyone. I entered the senate the same year that representative gabby giffords was shot. I knew then that the state of political rhetoric was encouraging violence. It's imperative now more than ever that the leaders of our country lead by example and disavow violence. Through the years I have personally been exposed multiple times to political violence.
▶ 0:12:39Chair Rand: I was in the right field a batting cage when the crazed shooter released nearly 200 shots at our congressional baseball practice. I will never forget steve scalise trying to drag his body away as the gunman continued. Later that year, a trump aide and fell and attacked me from behind my yard. I was just straightening up from picking up a tree limb.
▶ 0:13:04Chair Rand: I was wearing noise cancellation headphones, never saw him coming, running pell-mell down the hill. I was struck in the back. The first blow sent me through the air nearly 10 feet down the hill into the shoulder, impaling me as I hit the ground. Six of my ribs were broken. Three of the ribs were completely separated such that for weeks they would grind upon to each other. My lung was damaged.
▶ 0:13:31Chair Rand: For weeks, I could inhale but did not have the rib strength to exhale. I developed two ammonias -- pneumonias. I could only sit up in bed by tying a rope to the bed and pulling myself up through the pain of 8000 knives. Complications led to an infection in the space between my lung and my chest wall.
▶ 0:13:59Chair Rand: I spent one week in the hospital having it -- the infection dislodged through a chest tube. Senator mullin, recently you were confronted by constituents that were angry because you voted against my amendment to stop all funding for refugee welfare programs.
▶ 0:14:20Chair Rand: Instead of explaining your vote, you decided to transfer the blame and told the media that I was a freaking snake and that you completely understood why I had been assaulted. I was shocked he would justify and celebrate this violent assault that caused me and my family so much pain.
▶ 0:14:41Chair Rand: I just wonder if someone who applauds violence against political opponents is the right person to lead an agency that has struggled with limiting proper use of force. You might argue that you are mad or upset about being confronted by constituents. Senator mullin, your constituents are justifiably upset with you.
▶ 0:15:02Chair Rand: By now, most of america knows that the somali welfare fraud in minnesota stole over $9 billion, but instead of defending your vote, you took a vote to continue this refugee welfare program, you chose to lash out at me, going on to brag that you had already told me to my face that you completely understood and approved of the assault. That's a lie. Given the chance today, you can either continue to lie or correct the record.
▶ 0:15:31Chair Rand: You have never had the courage to look me in the eye and tell me that the assault was justified. So, today you will have your chance. I will give you that chance to clear the record. Tell it to my face, if that's what you believe. Tell the world why you believe I deserve to be assaulted from behind, have six ribs broken with a damaged long.
▶ 0:15:52Chair Rand: Tell me to my face why you think I deserved it and while you're at it, explain to the american public why they should trust a man with anger issues to set the proper example for ice and border control agents. It's plain to the american public how a man who has no regrets about brawling in the senate committee can set a proper example for 250,000 men and women who work at the department of homeland security. Senator peters, you are recognized for your opening comment.
▶ 0:16:20Sen. Peters: Thank you, chairman. Senator mullin, thank you for being here today, congratulations on your nomination. I appreciate your willingness to meet with me and my staff as we consider your nomination to serve as secretary of the department of homeland security. Welcome to your family who is joining us today, thank you for all of them -- to all of them for their commitment to public service, we do it as a family as you know.
▶ 0:16:50Sen. Peters: Homeland security is a complicated organization with challenging operational dynamics. As everyone is well aware, many components within dhs are currently operating without funding. Let's be clear, democrats are committed to funding tsa, fema, cybersecurity, infrastructure security, and the coast guard while we negotiate much-needed ice reforms.
▶ 0:17:15Sen. Peters: We tried to pass those bills through unanimous consent multiple times over the past two weeks. Unfortunately, republicans have blocked those bills each and every time. Yesterday the white house sent a letter laying out their latest offer, but the devil is always in the details. Administrative action is not enough. We need to pass real reforms into law.
▶ 0:17:39Sen. Peters: If republicans really do agree with us that tsa and other personnel need to be paid, they should join us and pass the bills to pay them today. We can do that as we continue to negotiate needed ice reforms. Let me be clear, these are straightforward reforms we are asking for. We want ice to follow the same rules as local police in our local communities.
▶ 0:18:07Sen. Peters: Dhs has faced management challenges since the start of the trump administration and over the past year, many of those challenges have unfortunately only increased. As soon I president trump was sworn in, he made deep cuts to counterterrorism offices and programs, forced out or reassigned to key personnel, redirecting the focus of the limited route -- limited remaining counterterrorism resources away from the serious threats that we face and targeting -- and towards
▶ 0:18:38Sen. Peters: Targeting the president's perceived political enemies. The administration has gutted our main cybersecurity agency, once again forcing out or reassigning highly talented personnel, cutting budgets in limiting the work to protect americans from cyber attacks and criminal hackers, supporting secure elections.
▶ 0:19:03Sen. Peters: The administration has taken an ax to fema, cutting staff, freezing or delaying critical grant funding everything from emergency food and shelter after a disaster to flood mitigation programs and security grants to nonprofits, including houses of worship. All of these cuts and reassignments have been made at the expense of vital missions, including the core terrorism prevention response mission that the department was created to address.
▶ 0:19:31Sen. Peters: In doing so, the trump administration has broken trust between law enforcement and the communities they are intended to protect, a brake that will have a generational impact on public safety and security. Now, after the president's reckless war of choice against iran, the threats to our nation have never been higher.
▶ 0:19:53Sen. Peters: In michigan last week we saw a major medical device manufacturer get hacked by an iranian backed group and a horrific violent attack on temple israel in the metro detroit area. The president's unilateral and unchecked aggressive executive actions have put americans at risk and we need a steady and qualified leader at the department of homeland security to address these serious threats .
▶ 0:20:20Sen. Peters: How the homeland security separate response to a crisis sends signals to everyone, from the personnel within the department to the american people in the entire world. It is in the role of the secretary to be a cable news commentator in the wake of a crisis. Their role is to lead the response and reassure the department they are leading isn't actually the cause of the crisis.
▶ 0:20:45Sen. Peters: A secretary who jumps to conclusions without the facts, as we saw in the case of renée good and alex pretti's killings worsens the situations and makes us less safe. This is a role where temperament matters. Where judgment matters. And where experience matters.
▶ 0:21:05Sen. Peters: We have seen under secretary noem's leadership we are misunderstanding of these traits can underline the challenges and now more than ever we need a dhs secretary who is a steady hand and who will provide thoughtful leadership, follow the facts, tell the truth, and hold agency officials accountable when they need to be held accountable.
▶ 0:21:33Sen. Peters: A secretary committed to the rule of law and who will protect and cooperate with independent oversight, whether that's from the inspector general or members of congress. We need a dhs secretary free from distractions and conflicts of interest that only undercut the department's work and breaks trust with the american people.
▶ 0:21:57Sen. Peters: Senator mullin, I appreciate you being here today to answer our questions about your concerns -- our questions about our concerns and your qualifications. While I look forward to hearing more about your vision for the department, I do have reservations about your readiness to take such a critical role at a critical time.
▶ 0:22:19Sen. Peters: I hope you will provide us with substantive answers today and a candid recognition of where this administration has fallen short on homeland security as you seek to lead our department as our nation faces ongoing security threats and war with iran.
▶ 0:22:35Chair Rand: Senator mullin is to be introduced today by senator lankford.
▶ 0:22:44Senator Lankford: We are proud you are here. I get the honor to have the chance to introduce my friend, markwayne mullin, fellow senator from oklahoma and someone I've seen work incredibly hard to be ready for every single task you have taken on the end to be able to not only do it, but do it well. A lot of folks think they know you. I actually get to know you and have the opportunity to serve beside you for a decade.
▶ 0:23:11Senator Lankford: I have seen your tenacity and your work effort. Folks may not know that the first time we really got to know each other, ironically, was around a fema event, a national -- natural disaster, briarwood elementary in 2013 when a tornado came through the heart of oklahoma. You had literally just been elected a few weeks before that. The oklahoma delegation all gathered together at that tragic event there at briarwood elementary.
▶ 0:23:40Senator Lankford: As we met with the principal, teachers, families, and walked through the debris field that was that elementary school, we turned around to look for markwayne mullin, but we couldn't find them. There was a debris pile with water shooting out of it and his plumber instincts said he had to solve it.
▶ 0:24:01Senator Lankford: While everyone else was shaking hands in meeting people, he was digging through the debris field to find a way to shut off the water shooting through the middle of that destroyed elementary school. I remember thinking this guy doesn't mind getting his hands dirty to solve the problem and when there is a problem to solve, he will do what it takes to solve it.
▶ 0:24:26Senator Lankford: Mark twain grew up in a small town ironically named west town, in east oklahoma. He grew up in a family of modest means. That should be safe to say. The youngest of seven and a family that didn't have much. His dad grown a plumbing company that markwayne then took on to become one of the largest plumbing companies in the state.
▶ 0:24:55Senator Lankford: He married his high school sweetheart, one of the smartest things you did at just 20 years old, and he and kristi have developed a beautiful family of three children that they had naturally and three that they chose, that they adopted, taking them in. It is a remarkable family and a remarkable success that you have led through a lot of hard work, love, and tenacity.
▶ 0:25:21Senator Lankford: A person of faith not afraid to be able to talk about his faith in jesus christ and has deep respect for all people. He has served in congress for 13 years, 11 in the house, three in the senate. He has passed legislation that he will be charged with implementing in the order it was passed.
▶ 0:25:43Senator Lankford: He served on armed services, the appropriations committee, the health committee, and an incredible job on the department of indian affairs, with an incredible gift to bring people together on both sides of the aisle.
▶ 0:26:00Senator Lankford: Regardless of if you are republican or democrat, if you want to sit down and talk about an issue, he's glad to be able to talk about it and work it out and he has very good relationships in the house and senate and isn't afraid to ask questions when he doesn't know the answer, and to be able to research things. He and I have often talked about being up late both of us working on researching an issue to learn more about it. The crazy thing about being in congress is you don't know everything. You've got to do the work.
▶ 0:26:29Senator Lankford: Markwayne is not afraid to do the work. Over the past year and few months, we have seen incredible progress on our southern border. Our southern border 18 months ago, I think we forget what it looked like. 12,000 people per day illegally crossing our border, just being waved in. No vetting, no background checks. 12,000 people a day. That is not happening anymore.
▶ 0:27:01Senator Lankford: Our numbers are down on the southwest border 96%. So, you walk into an agency that has finally restored some order to the southern border. But there is a lot of work still to do with fema and other areas of homeland security in a very large agency with 250 thousand people actually under your leadership there. So, I am confident that you will be able to take those things on.
▶ 0:27:27Senator Lankford: Not only am I confident, the national border patrol council already sent a letter in strong support here and Mr. chairman I would ask for unanimous consent to insert into the record the national border patrol council letter of support, the leadership of the cherokee nation, their strong support, and my fellow senator, katie britt, has an opening statement I would also like to submit unanimous consent.
▶ 0:27:50Chair Rand: Without objection.
▶ 0:27:55Senator: Thank you. This is a person who lives what we call the oklahoma standard. When hard things occur, you step up and serve your neighbor and find ways to be able to help people to do the hard things that have to be done. I appreciate your leadership and willingness to step up in a season where dhs needs someone to help the nation in so many complicated areas, especially at a time right now where we can even get funding to dhs, we have to have good and solid
▶ 0:28:27Senator: Leadership there. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:28:28Chair Rand: It is the practice of this committee to swear in witnesses. Will the witness please stand and raise your right hand? Do you swear the testimony you give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you god? You are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:28:50Mr. Mullin: Before I get started, I have to address certain remarks the chairman made, calling me a liar. Sir, everyone in this room knows I'm blunt and direct to the point, if I have something to say I will say to your face. If you recall, back in my house days, we did have this conversation, based on remarks I made. You were in a room.
▶ 0:29:15Mr. Mullin: I simply address that I said I could understand because of the behavior you are having, I could understand why the neighbor did what they did. As far as the term snake and a grass, sir, I work around this room to try to fix problems and have worked with many in this room. Seems like you fight republicans more than you work with us. I did address those remarks. I address to the gimmicks in the amendment you put forth. As far as me saying that I invoke violence question mark I don't.
▶ 0:29:44Mr. Mullin: I don't think anybody should be had by surprise, I don't like that. But if I have something to say, everybody in this room knows I will come straight to you, say it publicly and privately, but never behind your back. For you to say I am a liar, sir, that's not accurate. And I got proof to say that. You have spent millions in campaigns against me. We just don't get along. However, sir, that doesn't keep me, at all, from doing my job.
▶ 0:30:14Mr. Mullin: I can have differences of opinions with everybody in this room, but as secretary of home and I will be protecting everybody, including kentucky, as much as my own backyard in oklahoma. It's bigger than the partisan bickering we had. Bigger than the political differences we had. The truth is, I have a job to do and I don't like to fail at anything. At all. So, I can set it aside if you are willing to set it aside. Let me earn the respect, let me earn the job.
▶ 0:30:45Mr. Mullin: I won't fail you, I won't back down from a challenge, I will also admit when I'm wrong. I'm not perfect, I don't claim to be perfect, I make mistakes just like anybody else. But mistakes, if you own them, you can learn from them and move ahead. I make that commitment to you. Ranking member peters, chairman paul, I do thank you for this opportunity.
▶ 0:31:13Mr. Mullin: It is a humbling experience, a kid from westville, oklahoma, growing up with a dad that worked hard. He set the work example for all of us. And all of my families. My siblings, we all work hard. I'm proud of the family that I had. To say that a kid with a speech impediment might one day sit up here in front of you to be nominated to be the secretary of home and?
▶ 0:31:43Mr. Mullin: It was humbling enough to be selected by oklahoma to be their U.S. representative when I didn't even know how to tie a tie. Two years later to be able to call a senator to sir with all you guys? I respect everyone of you guys, I really do. Regardless of my opinion are not, you were elected by your state and I respect that. I may disagree with you, but I respect that.
▶ 0:32:07Mr. Mullin: We all make decisions based on two things, where we were raised, which never changes, and our life experiences, which constantly change. For me to have the love of my life behind me, some I literally fell in love with in third grade , I knew I was going to marry her in eighth grade. She didn't know that, yet. We had worked through that process.
▶ 0:32:35Mr. Mullin: When I was 19, she agreed to marry me? I didn't have anything. I was on a wrestling scholarship living in a dorm. She was cheering at northeastern state university. I think she fell in love with my truck. My truck was pretty cool. But the truth is, we didn't know what we didn't know, but we did know we loved each other.
▶ 0:32:58Mr. Mullin: I haven't been perfect, I apologize to her quite often and sent her flowers all the time, but I'm still humbled by the fact that we have enjoyed this walk together, god on our side with her right beside me. To our six children who have been on this adventure with me, what an adventure its men. We have a saying in our family, you will never change anything you are willing to tolerate. That is how we live our lives and move forward.
▶ 0:33:23Mr. Mullin: And regardless of, regardless of what's in front of us, we always take it on as a family and I am not scared of a challenge. I am scared of failure. So, I will work hard each day. I will work hard to make the 280,000 employees at dhs and the 22 agencies beneath me proud.
▶ 0:33:51Mr. Mullin: They will show, I will show them somebody that no one will outwork. I will work beside them every single day to not just secure a homeland, but to bring peace of mind and confidence to the agency. My goal, and six months, is that we are not the lead story every single day. My goal is for people to understand that we are out there, we are protecting them, we are working with them. My goal is to make everyone of you guys proud.
▶ 0:34:22Mr. Mullin: My goal for those that don't support me is that they will regret not supporting me. But we have to get dhs funded. We have to. My friends, we have to set the partisan side down. We have to realize that we are putting our homeland and the peace of mind at risk for the american people.
▶ 0:34:50Mr. Mullin: Sometimes it is political theater, sometimes it is true differences, what we do know is that we are playing with fire. We have 200 and 80,000 employees right now on day 30 of no pay, still showing up every single day to do their job. That is a dedicated group of people. And we should all be proud of them. We should all be working together, we should all be trying to fund them.
▶ 0:35:21Mr. Mullin: So, I pray. Seriously, I pray we can get past this. Once the hearing is over, once we get through this process, I get it, I get that some of it has to be political theater, I understand it, I've had to really pray about my attitude.
▶ 0:35:36Mr. Mullin: I will say that once it's over, I hope we can work together to get it funded so that when I walk in, if I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed, if I walk in as secretary, that these guys are ready to go to work day one. God bless you, thank you so much for the opportunity, I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:35:58Chair Rand: It is the standard practice of this committee for the chairman to ask the nominees the following questions. Do you agree without reservation to comply with our requests or summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of congress of confirmed?
▶ 0:36:13Sen. Mullin: I do.
▶ 0:36:15Chair Rand: We will now proceed to seven minutes of questioning. The record should show, and I think will show, the lack of contrition, no apology, and no regrets for your support in understanding the violence perpetrated on me. Unrepented. The only an angry quibble about is that you met me while you were in the house. I don't think we did.
▶ 0:36:45Chair Rand: The only thing you are upset about is not that you are for violence, you are upset about that I called you a liar because you said it to my face, which is really more about this machismo that you have. When in oklahoma, the media ask you about the refugee welfare programs, the programs you voted to continue funding, it was this whole idea that you were going to transfer, because you are uncomfortable, your anger, low impulse control causes you to go
▶ 0:37:16Chair Rand: After and decide you will go after me as well, so you say you completely understood I was assaulted from behind, six ribs broken, part of my lung removed, and it was just fine, something that you I guess approve of it as far as resolution of political problems. When I spoke to you privately on the phone, there was no apology. You just said well, we can let our political differences go by and like you said a few minutes ago, we can set it aside.
▶ 0:37:45Chair Rand: Political differences we can, but when you us -- you say you agree with a trump aide and felon that attacked me, you think I'm going to set that aside as no big deal? I was in pain for two months, six ribs broken, three of them separated, grinding bone-on-bone for months, part of my love -- part of my lungs removed, and you think that's great?
▶ 0:38:09Chair Rand: The sheer lack of any kind of self-awareness, that you will be leading thousands of men and women who will have the use of force, and there have been great -- great questions in our country about how that will be used, and you think a violent attack is just fine? I guess my first question is, do you think that justifying that kind of violence sets a good example for the men and women of ice and border patrol?
▶ 0:38:36Sen. Mullin: When the phone call was made, I made it to you and try to talk to you. You did not engage at all. You said, get your paperwork in.
▶ 0:38:45Chair Rand: You offered no apology. If you offer no apology today and no regrets. I haven't heard the word apologize, haven't heard the word regret. Haven't heard the word I misspoke, it was heated, I made a mistake, it was -- I haven't heard any of those words.
▶ 0:39:04Sen. Mullin: It wasn't heated and I'm not apologizing.
▶ 0:39:08Chair Rand: Good, you are jolly well fine and you want the men and women up here to know that you supported the felonious violent attack on me from behind.
▶ 0:39:18Sen. Mullin: I did not say I supported it, I said I understood it.
▶ 0:39:23Sen. Mullin: Not approve, but understand. What will do you think most people would interpret completely understand to be, support for a condemnation of the violence?
▶ 0:39:35Sen. Mullin: As I said, we can have our differences, it won't keep me from doing my job. I will secure kentucky and take care of kentucky as much as
▶ 0:39:48Chair Rand: --
▶ 0:39:48Chair Rand: If it was a one-off, that would be one thing. If you dislike me so much that you approved violence against me, that would be one thing, but really, there's a pattern of this. Let's go ahead and roll the tape. >> you know where to find me, anyplace, anytime, cowboy. This is a time, this is a place. Want to run your mouth? We can finish in here. >> that's fine, perfect. >> stand your butt up, then.
▶ 0:40:22Chair Rand: >> you do that. Quick stop it, stop it. Sit down. You are a united states senator. Sit down, please. Hold it, hold it. >> if he had gotten up, would you have gone at it right there? >> I probably would have jumped over at that point. >> this guy continues to get away with this stuff. It's silly, it's stupid. Every now and then, you need to be punched in the face. They used to have caning's.
▶ 0:40:52Chair Rand: >> and duels. >> right. That's a way men use to settle their differences. To be a part of that, they say you are supposed to ignore it? I guess I'm not a good christian. I try to be. I know people say you are supposed to turn the other cheek. I prefer the david method. By the way, I'm not afraid of biting him. I will bite him. >> biting him? It twice if I'm in a fight, I will do anything. I don't care. >> in hindsight, and he?
▶ 0:41:24Chair Rand: >> I really don't.
▶ 0:41:26Chair Rand: So, no regrets. Even after your anger had cooled, you had still -- you were still bragging that if he had been brave enough, you would have jumped up to treat him -- teach him a lesson because that is how men should settle their differences. Do you think that fighting to settle differences is a good example for the men and women of ice and border patrol?
▶ 0:41:47Sen. Mullin: As you can see over my good -- my shoulder here is my good friend, sean o'brien. We have both had conversations, shaken hands, and agreed we could have done things different. Sean is someone who has become a close friend. We talk all the time. I was on his podcast. We talked through this. That's how you handle your differences. Not like this, chairman.
▶ 0:42:10Chair Rand: I'm glad you are friends now and have reconciled, but it doesn't really get to the point as to whether you think that violence is the way that we settle things. In the days after the fight, you said sometimes people need to be punched in the face. Is that still your opinion, that political disputes can sometimes often only be resolved by violence?
▶ 0:42:31Sen. Mullin: No. I don't always agree with that. I don't believe in political violence, I've made that very clear. But theoretically speaking, sir, I get it, it's about character assassination for you, that's the way the game this -- this game is played, I understand it and you are making this about you, that's fine.
▶ 0:42:53Chair Rand: Character assassination? When you are lauding the assault? Who do you think started it? I'm repeating your support for the assault. That is somehow something I started?
▶ 0:43:07Sen. Mullin: No, I'm saying that you are adding a lot to it.
▶ 0:43:12Chair Rand: In the days after the fight you did many interviews as justifying the violence has historically justified through things like caning and dueling. Is it your opinion that the caning of charles sumner was not only justified but argues still for resolving our political differences with violence?
▶ 0:43:31Sen. Mullin: I was pointing out that some of the rules that apply to this body -- for instance, dueling, with two consenting adults, is still there.
▶ 0:43:40Chair Rand: It's been illegal for 170 years. There is no precedent for legal dueling. Even then, they fled the country. Do you realize that the man who beat charles sumner with a cane beat him until he was unconscious? Do you know why no senators intervene? His friend held a gun on them and he beat him and he beat him until they crushed his skull. That's what you are insinuating is the president of the senate and that is what you live by.
▶ 0:44:10Chair Rand: That's a very dangerous sentiment. After a half a dozen victory lap interviews where you pointed out that the union guy was just lucky that fear kept him from standing up, you were asked if you had any regrets about bringing violence to a senate committee and he replied you had no regrets. Today you have said you had no regrets about being happy, completely understanding why I was attacked from behind.
▶ 0:44:39Chair Rand: No regrets about, you know, instigating a brawl in a senate hearing. Are those still your opinions?
▶ 0:44:46Sen. Mullin: You have your opinion, I have mine. As to secretary of homeland security, I'm going to bring peace of mind and security to the country and stay laser focused on that.
▶ 0:44:56Chair Rand: Senator peters?
▶ 0:44:59Sen. Peters: Senator, you have made several public statement suggesting you were involved in special security forces or combat operations overseas. In 2023, you said in a senate republican conference podcast, " there is another side of my bio that I don't ever talk about, nor will I.
▶ 0:45:31Sen. Peters: I had to go do something overseas." march 2 of this year, you told fox news in an interview that "war is ugly and it smells bad. If anyone has ever been there and can smell the war around you and taste it and feel it in your nostrils and here it, it is something you will never forget ." march 3 in a podcast interview you stated that you did step -- special assignments outside of dod, now do w, never
▶ 0:46:03Sen. Peters: Wore the uniform of the flag on my shoulder, but I might have been in the same area." your statements and public interviews in your responses to the committee are quite frankly, confusing and inconsistent. I would like you to clear this up, you are under oath, we can clear it up right now. First, I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record my letter to you on march 11 and you're done on march 12 regarding any overseas special assignments.
▶ 0:46:30Chair Rand: Without objection.
▶ 0:46:32Sen. Peters: Before your time in congress, other than on vacations with your family, have you ever travel to a foreign country?
▶ 0:46:40Sen. Mullin: No.
▶ 0:46:42Sen. Peters: Never travel to a foreign country?
▶ 0:46:45Sen. Mullin: Outside a vacation or mission work, no.
▶ 0:46:52Sen. Peters: Your fbi report does show some travel. Goes to georgia, azerbaijan, you mark to that that was not for tourist.
▶ 0:47:04Sen. Mullin: Are you referring to august of 2021, when we went to get the americans out of afghanistan? That's what that travel is for.
▶ 0:47:14Sen. Peters: So, you have traveled, traveled to azerbaijan and georgia, in your fbi report, though you just said you never traveled?
▶ 0:47:23Sen. Mullin: I thought you was referring to the different time. In 2021 it was well-documented and all over the news. I actually did say that in we put that on the report. That was, that was, that was us, which was all over the news, trying to go with an extremely experienced team.
▶ 0:47:44Sen. Peters: Alright, thank you. You have traveled overseas. Were you ever an employee, volunteer, or otherwise involved with the department of defense, the state department, or other U.S. agency or a contractor for those departments?
▶ 0:48:01Sen. Mullin: Know and I think there's a misunderstanding here that I can clear up if you want me to. This is a, it's an official trip . It is classified. In 2015, I was asked to train with a very small contingency and go to a certain area that was scheduled for 2016.
▶ 0:48:28Sen. Mullin: During that time, I was asked to go through and had to meet certain training qualifications. Certain qualifications. The training and stuff was kind of fun. But also awful. I spoke in general about my experiences. I never spoke specifically on details, on dates, or on the mission. That was official.
▶ 0:48:56Sen. Mullin: There is nothing in the report to the committee -- actually, it said you don't have to claim any official trips. Like I said, that was an official trip that is classified.
▶ 0:49:07Sen. Peters: Official trip as a member of congress?
▶ 0:49:09Sen. Mullin: Yes, 15-16, member of congress. Some of it may be public, but it would be small, most of it, because of my recollection, I think there were only four people read in on it.
▶ 0:49:24Sen. Peters: Where was that?
▶ 0:49:26Sen. Mullin: I just said classified.
▶ 0:49:29Sen. Peters: The letter that we sent to you said we needed to have information on these activities.
▶ 0:49:34Sen. Mullin: Your paperwork was very clear, excluding any official trips. This was an official trip as a member.
▶ 0:49:43Sen. Peters: Well, we will have more questions to ask. In the fbi report, I asked if there is anything in the report that is classified, were you involved in any kind of classified operation at all, and you said is not.
▶ 0:49:58Sen. Mullin: It also said excluding official duties. It says that. You guys have the paperwork in front of you. It always says excluding official duties. This committee came to us and asked in the same questions. We talked about mission work, we talked about mentorship. They said official duties within your official capacity does not have to be talked about.
▶ 0:50:25Sen. Peters: So, where did you smell war?
▶ 0:50:29Sen. Mullin: I just said that this was classified and the dates, locations, and admission, I have never spoken specifically in detail out.
▶ 0:50:39Sen. Peters: We can get that information.
▶ 0:50:41Sen. Mullin: You are welcome to, that's fervently ok.
▶ 0:50:46Sen. Peters: We will ensure that you are perjuring yourself in a truthful way.
▶ 0:50:50Sen. Mullin: I'm not portraying myself in any way other than you are asking that question.
▶ 0:50:55Sen. Peters: Will continue to work on that. After dhs officer shot and killed two american citizens, you joined top administrative officials and publicly defaming and disparaging the victims.
▶ 0:51:11Sen. Peters: Following the victim -- the shooting of renée good, you, sir, called alex pretti a deranged individual who came in to cause max damage." can we expect those kinds of responses if you are confirmed as secretary? Would you basically be that you did, you responded as secretary noem, should we expect the same behavior all over again?
▶ 0:51:36Sen. Mullin: I have a deep amount of respect for you, we have our differences and I respect you. We set this privately, those words probably should have been retracted. I shouldn't have said that. As secretary, I wouldn't. The investigation is ongoing. Sometimes we make mistakes and I own it. That one, I went out there too fast. I responded immediately without the facts, my fault, won't happen as secretary.
▶ 0:52:02Sen. Peters: You reread that statement?
▶ 0:52:04Sen. Mullin: Yes, sir.
▶ 0:52:05Sen. Peters: Which you want to apologize to the family of alex pretti?
▶ 0:52:10Sen. Mullin: I just said I regret the statements.
▶ 0:52:13Sen. Peters: Is that the same as an apology?
▶ 0:52:16Sen. Mullin: If I am proven wrong after the investigation, I will absolutely.
▶ 0:52:23Sen. Peters: How would you characterize your relationship with president trump?
▶ 0:52:26Sen. Mullin: He is, he is a friend.
▶ 0:52:29Sen. Peters: How frequent we have you spoken with him in the past year?
▶ 0:52:32Sen. Mullin: Often. Most time around my family. Explaining the friendship, but in loves your kids when they are going through a difficult time, like we have, the amount of outpouring of support from the president and the friendship that we saw, going back to 2020, was remarkable. So, I speak with the president on the friend level more than
▶ 0:52:58Sen. Peters: The policy level.
▶ 0:52:59Sen. Peters: I have more questions, but my time is up. We will do a second round.
▶ 0:53:03Chair Rand: Thank you. Senator moreno?
▶ 0:53:08Senator Moreno: Thank you for letting me skip a line. Unfortunately, I have to go to dover for a dignified transfer. I appreciate you taking the time. It's not often that I get to ask questions from someone that I've known for a long time, being in politics two and a half years as a long time. I've got to know you as a friend, colleague, see you as a dad and a husband. I want the american people to know you are a good man.
▶ 0:53:39Senator Moreno: That doesn't always go through all the political shenanigans. And maybe you are not going to replace shakespeare as the next greatest or greater on earth. You talk from the heart. That's ok, you are who you are. I think that's who you don't apologize for, being yourself. Sometimes we are imperfect.
▶ 0:54:02Senator Moreno: We don't do the 20 person focus group every time we say a word and I think that's what people like about you, markwayne, so I appreciate you being here. I honestly have just one question for you. You pledge to support and defend the united states of america nearly as much as you would protect and defend your family?
▶ 0:54:20Sen. Mullin: Without doubt, sir, yes.
▶ 0:54:23Sen. Moreno: I'm going to ruin everything for the audience. He will be confirmed. You will have the job. You're going to make this country safer and better and for that I thank you and thank your family for supporting you. I will use the rest of my time now to make a little case to the american people. We have 260 thousand families that have not received a paycheck in over a month.
▶ 0:54:59Sen. Moreno: 260,000 american citizen families who have not received a paycheck in over a month. None of those people are in charge of policy. Not one of those families makes policy decisions, for the most part. That is on the people here. There isn't a single human being on the dais that has missed a paycheck. Every single one of us has gotten a paycheck. Last 30 days and before that.
▶ 0:55:28Sen. Moreno: Yet we sit here and we do political theater. I set it to my colleague, senator britt, the other day, that in my 14 months here, I only felt ashamed of this chamber once, and that was last thursday. When you saw the ultimate political theater, colleagues going -- let's fund tsa. How about the coast guard? That's a different person going to talk about that. You can't have it both ways, by the way.
▶ 0:55:58Sen. Moreno: You can't have democrats saying that I can't believe the trump administration is covered -- cutting government appointment numbers. By the way, 300 thousand, haven't missed a beat, but not pay the people actually showing up? That's decently in congress. Trump not defending the homeland when he's doing it every single day? Yet we are allowing these agencies do not be funded. And I, and I have tried really hard to learn how this place works. This is all very new to me.
▶ 0:56:31Sen. Moreno: I remember many, many democrats saying to me that we have the constitutional duty to fund for appropriations and a separate piece where we have policy differences, but we should never marry both together.
▶ 0:56:52Sen. Moreno: You don't hurt us, you heard the men and women going and that's a disgrace.
▶ 0:57:06Sen. Moreno: How do you sleep knowing that you are hurting families like that, cars repossessed, kids that can't go to dance recitals because they did everything right in life except got a job with the department of homeland security so a politician can make a 32nd video online and use it to fund raise for the next election? That's disgusting. Let me say this, what are we not talking about?
▶ 0:57:35Sen. Moreno: The ranking member said -- he's not paying attention, that's fine -- we, we said we would fund fema, and when you guys are done talking, if you like. Are you done? Ok. It's extraordinarily disrespectful. Moving on, you said you would fund all of these agencies. Here are ones that you haven't funded.
▶ 0:58:05Sen. Moreno: Uscis, near and dear to my heart. We have defunded the agency that allows legal immigrants into this country? That is insane. Never hear democrats talk about that. Trying to process legal immigrants, don't need a paycheck. Biological nuclear threat prevention. That seems important. That seems like an agency we should fund.
▶ 0:58:35Sen. Moreno: 200 employees, not getting a paycheck. That's ok with the democrats. Next one, 60,000 employees for U.S. customs border control. People expecting packages they work with, your teams work with customs. They are not getting paid to. How do you look at those people in the face when you are doing that? Immigration and customs enforcement?
▶ 0:58:59Sen. Moreno: 7000 special agents stopping transnational criminal organizations, drug smugglers, and human traffickers. Are you on the democratic side asking not to fund that? Because ultimately what this is about is defunding ice and law enforcement. Are you suggesting that we not fund an organization that attacks transnational organizations? Be specific. Be specific when you say you don't want to fund ice.
▶ 0:59:32Sen. Moreno: I want you to say we don't want to fund 7000 special agents in charge of stopping transnational criminal organization drug smugglers and human traffickers. This job isn't complicated. The american people sent us here to get things done. For the third time in six months, we shut down the government with total impunity.
▶ 0:59:59Sen. Moreno: They will go home and just to make social media videos and try to blame republicans. It's a disgrace, honestly, that you talked about the respect that senator mellon -- senator mullin's shares, side conversations, you don't listen. It's fine, you don't have to.
▶ 1:00:22Sen. Moreno: But I'm going to do now is leaving and pay respects to three soldiers who died so that we can have these liberties that we enjoy here and you guys continue with political theater, personal attacks. Whatever you do. I know that's a good man. I will vote for you, you will get confirmed, you will do a great job and make this country proud. Thank you and thank you for standing by a great american person.
▶ 1:00:45Chair Rand: Senator hassan?
▶ 1:00:49Senator Hassan: Thank care. Before I start with my remarks and questions, with regard to senator moreno, who has left the dais, the american people should know this, ice is right now funded with more money than it has had in the past. The partial limited shutdown that we have right now has nothing to do with ice.
▶ 1:01:16Senator Hassan: Meanwhile, democrats have consistently over the last week moved to fund the rest of the department of homeland security. Republicans have blocked that funding. So, let's just be clear about what's happening here. Now, I want to congratulate senator mullin and christie for the nomination. I know your family is very proud. I know how much you love them.
▶ 1:01:46Senator Hassan: I want to thank chairman paul for speaking so openly about a very difficult thing, the actual physical impact of violence, and in this case political violence. It's a hard thing to do but it is an important thing to do at this time in our country's history. Thank you, chairman. The department of homeland security was created in the wake of the september 11 terrorist attacks with a clear mission, to keep our country safe, secure, and free.
▶ 1:02:14Senator Hassan: Their work includes counterterrorism operations, disaster recovery, physical and cyber protection of images -- infrastructure, and immigration enforcement. The stakes for the success of the department could not be higher. That is also why americans of all stripes have been deeply concerned about what they have seen from the department under this administration.
▶ 1:02:39Senator Hassan: People have been rightfully outraged about the lawlessness from the department leadership that has not only resulted in the death of two american citizens, but has also led to the hollowing out of agencies like fema.
▶ 1:02:55Senator Hassan: So, to senator mullin and my colleagues, what happens here in this room today is not nearly as important as what happens at our border, on our streets, in our communities, and in our businesses tomorrow and every day thereafter. So, senator mullin, I'm going to start with a question that I have asked everyone of the president's nominees.
▶ 1:03:21Senator Hassan: If directed by the president to take an action that would break the law, would you follow the law or the president's direction?
▶ 1:03:28Sen. Mullin: Thank you for the questions and the concerns. First of all, I've enjoyed working with you on several different issues. We have had very blunt conversations. To answer your question, the president would never ask me to do that.
▶ 1:03:42Sen. Mullin: Certainly, everyday americans who have served on juries would disagree with you about that and the example he has set calls into question that answer. I have limited time, as you know. In the past 14 months, secretary noem has fundamentally broken the trust of the american people in the department of homeland security. The top priority of whoever leads this department next must be to rebuild this trust.
▶ 1:04:09Sen. Mullin: If confirmed to lead the department, how will you be different from secretary noem?
▶ 1:04:16Sen. Mullin: I think I said this in a private conversation as well, I love senator gnome's family and I consider them friends, but everybody has different leadership styles. Throughout my businesses, when I would have to transfer one manager or executive to another area, you know, you bring in a different one and they all have different management styles. Mine is empowering people. As I said in my opening statement, I want to protect the homeland, bring peace of mind back to the agency.
▶ 1:04:48Sen. Mullin: I'm not going to be the smartest guy in any room I walk into, but I know how to get talent --
▶ 1:04:52Sen. Peters: Let me interrupt you again, our time is limited. Let's be really clear, what secretary noem did was give the green light to lawless behavior. Are you going to give the green light to lawless behavior?
▶ 1:05:06Sen. Mullin: I will operate within the parameters you set for me.
▶ 1:05:11Sen. Peters: The cut -- Sen.
▶ 1:05:14Hassan: The constitution and the fourth amendment, among other things?
▶ 1:05:17Sen. Mullin: I will uphold that when I am sworn in. But to be fair, I don't get to choose the laws I enforce. You guys pass them.
▶ 1:05:27Sen. Hassan: Shooting a protester exercising his first amendment speech and carrying a lawfully licensed gun is not a lawful behavior. Let's move on to another issue. Granite staters pushed back hard on the plan by ice to build a detention center in merrimack, new hampshire, and despite poor communication from the department, eventually secretary noem canceled the plans for the facility.
▶ 1:05:57Sen. Hassan: Will you ensure that the merrimack plan remains off the table, or will you consider restarting it?
▶ 1:06:02Sen. Mullin: I haven't seen the facts behind it. I will work with you on this. We want to be good partners in your state and community. I don't know the strategic purpose of it or what has happened. It's hard for me to state something I haven't got briefed on. I made it very clear to you in here, I will work with community leaders to make sure we are delivering for the american people.
▶ 1:06:29Sen. Hassan: I appreciate that. In follow-up conversations, ice refused to comment on opening new facilities elsewhere in new hampshire. Will you commit to me that ice will not open any new facilities in new hampshire or elsewhere in the country without the support of the local community?
▶ 1:06:50Sen. Mullin: Ma'am, I will work with the local community and your office, but I won't be able to speak to that until I see the risk and speaks of the mission in front of us. We have to protect the homeland and we want to do that, but obviously we want to be good partners and we will work in your state to make sure we work hard to build relationships in that manner.
▶ 1:07:14Sen. Hassan: Look, I will be here for a second round of questions, I have a lot more. Let me just point this out, americans want to secure our country. We love this country and want to be safe and secure, free together. The people of new hampshire will take into consideration a request by ice from the federal government to do its part.
▶ 1:07:42Sen. Hassan: But transparency, local control, and respective local throughout new hampshire and the country is an essential piece of our democracy. What I have been hearing from ice and other dhs folks is that the pushback is too hard. You can either make the case for these facilities and explain how it supports the local community and deal with the loss of property tax dollars, for instance, or if you can't make the case, it should be built.
▶ 1:08:10Sen. Hassan: I would really encourage the department and all of us to remember that this is a government of the high and for the people and if you cannot make the case of the people, you should be doing it. Thank you.
▶ 1:08:22Chair Rand: Senator johnson?
▶ 1:08:26Senator Johnson: Thank you, Mr. --markwayne, I'm going to use my time differently than others in the hearing. I can't top senator moreno about how unconscionable it is that we are not providing paychecks to those 260,000 men and women that you will soon be leading.
▶ 1:08:55Senator Johnson: Other than working with no labels, we don't serve on the same committees. Have never gone together. Often times, that is how you get to know our colleagues. So, I don't know you as well as some of the others appeared. Certainly within conference, we have seen each other interact. We share a couple of things in common.
▶ 1:09:19Senator Johnson: I think we are both pretty passionate about our love for this country and trying to fix the enormous mess is left behind by biden and the democrats. We wear our emotions on our sleeves. But I will say I have been here 15 years and I have been through a lot of confirmation hearings and listen to a lot of nominees and heard a lot of introductions.
▶ 1:09:45Senator Johnson: If one of your first decisions as a nominee was to pick the person to introduce you, you could not have done a better job. The introduction from senator lankford was probably one of the most genuine, heart I have ever heard. Your opening statement was probably one of the more genuine and heartfelt testimonies I've ever heard if not the most. I am looking behind you at the people who have come here to support you. Your former colleagues in the house, former speaker of the house senator britt.
▶ 1:10:19Senator Johnson: I see a democratic member of the house. I've seen you interact with him trying to get some permitting reform. Please, briefly, because I want you to tell another story but talk a little bit about your relationship with josh and other members of the house.
▶ 1:10:35Sen. Mullin: Josh and I, we may not agree on all issues but he is a friend. Our relationship started back in 2017 when he thought I was a staff member running workout group because I have been running a bipartisan workout group that started actually with speaker kevin mccarthy and jason smith 13 years ago. I still do that to this day.
▶ 1:11:02Sen. Mullin: When he came in at 17, joe kennedy, also a friend of mine, he approached me on the house floor and asked me, why is a trainer in the gym on the house voting? To which joe kennedy laughed and said, he is a member from oklahoma. After that, we became friends. Our daughters are writing a book together. About bipartisanship.
▶ 1:11:28Sen. Mullin: But when josh asked me to join a bipartisan group called no labels, that is when we really started seeing there's a lot of common ground that we can work together. As I said in my opening statement, we all make decisions based on how we are raised and our life experiences. Josh and I were raised different just like everybody on this dais and we have had different life experience, but we all believe in that flag behind you.
▶ 1:11:58Sen. Mullin: What I say, as long as you love that flag as much as I do and you're willing to die for that flag like I am, we can work together. We can set the differences aside and we can work together. And josh represents that, too. Just for him being here, you guys know he has got the primary in new jersey we had he is up every two years and he is here. That is a friend.
▶ 1:12:28Sen. Mullin: That says, hey, my political differences are beside, I still like you. I cannot tell you how many members on the democratic party -- which I love and respect and understand the politics -- have come up to me and said, hey, I love you but we had that I'm running for this office. But I am running for this office. Of I'm up for reelection. I would get killed in my state. In most cases I would support you but. But. And it drives me crazy.
▶ 1:12:55Sen. Mullin: But when you see a real friend like that, I would run through fire for the guy.
▶ 1:13:01Sen. Johnson: From my standpoint when you're trying to select someone to run an operation, you want someone with integrity. Somebody with that passion toward the mission, keeping this nation safe, having this love for the country. Also incredibly important when you're serving in the administration have a good relationship with the president. I know you've got a good relationship with the president.
▶ 1:13:25Sen. Johnson: You told your story and I want you to repeat that story of your son who was injured and a visit the president of the united states made to that hospital -- I want you to tell the story because I think it is important people understand why you are loyal to president trump. I would like them to hear a different side of president trump as well. I think that will serve you well as his secretary of homeland security. Tell that story.
▶ 1:13:51Sen. Mullin: I will try to get through it without crying. It is not about president trump, it is about my son. My son was a world-class athlete in january 17, 2020 -- was an election year -- he had a serious brain injury. Woke up 26 hours later and he was a different kid. We almost lost him.
▶ 1:14:24Sen. Mullin: For 26 hours, had extremely low pulse. There was a time they thought they lost his pulse altogether. When he woke up, he was different. You had a world-class athlete that if been all over the world and could not touch his nose or walk without shuffling his feet, short-term memory loss. It could not control his muscles, could not add five plus three. He was in high school at that time. Had to learn how to read, welcome everything.
▶ 1:14:54Sen. Mullin: President found out and gave me a call immediately. One thing the president joked about he said, let me get this straight, he doesn't know who you are but he knows who I am? The president did not understand the severity of it but he heard in my voice animatedly went to work. I told him we had to get to bakersfield, california to one of the best neuro-rehabilitation places in the world.
▶ 1:15:23Sen. Mullin: The president offered to send his personal plane. The president of the united states. I said, sir, we have to drive. We get there and he called almost every day for two weeks detecting on jim. He said, I am going to come see him. This is in the middle of the election.
▶ 1:15:42Sen. Mullin: He took the time to come up to bakersfield and see jim and the center told us the short-term memory loss -- something would trigger it, some of it would trigger it where he would start retaining stuff. Until then he would have issues. The president arrived and of course there were cameras and everybody around and the media -- nobody talked about it because the president called him on stage and talked to him. Then we went to the back and the president did not talk to me.
▶ 1:16:10Sen. Mullin: He did not care if I was in the room. Here's a guy who -- my son is 5'3". His team came twice and said, sir, we have to go. On the third time they came over he said, hey, I guarantee you that plane won't leave without me. The next 15 minutes, he did nothing but love on my son.
▶ 1:16:42Sen. Mullin: That one incident jog his memory. From then on, he started retaining things. Jim's attitude went from this we are going to get through it to this I'm going to get through it. And every week if not most days the president would call and ask how he could help. Ask how his but he is doing great he did not do it for publicity. He did not do it for any show.
▶ 1:17:11Sen. Mullin: He was running one of the toughest elections he had been in and the guy was still that concerned about my son. When we got released for a little bit, we had to go back but when we got released from the president said, I'm to mar-a-lago and see me. We go down there and it was amazing. We were leaving and -- I hate getting emotional. If I talk about my kids, get emotional. Other than that, you can't make me cry.
▶ 1:17:42Sen. Mullin: He grabbed my son and said, do you know why her love your dad? Christie tells her story better than I do he says, no, so. He said, because he loves you. Because of you. Because of you. Man, that -- he did not do it for any other reason. Here's the president of the united states and he did it just because he cared. When you want to say why is he a friend? Yeah, we were acquaintances before that. We have been friends ever since.
▶ 1:18:10Sen. Johnson: The american people needed to hear that. Thank you.
▶ 1:18:12Chair Paul: Senator blumenthal.
▶ 1:18:16Sen. Blumenthal: Welcome, senator mullin. Thank you for being here today and thank you to your family for your service and theirs. I hope you will be as emotional about the children who are presently detained at dilley and other camps in the united states of america where they have been subjected to conditions that would outrage and have angered
▶ 1:18:49Sen. Blumenthal: Many americans. We are here because of a lawless and reckless agency that has broken into homes without judicial approval, shot united states citizens, detained them without any cause, and sometimes killed them. I am looking for real substantive reform in that agency as you and I have discussed when you came to talk to me. I break with the past.
▶ 1:19:22Sen. Blumenthal: With former secretary noem and with the white house. Steve miller and others who have used kristi noem in effect as a puppet to implement lawless policy. I welcome that you have stated you regret your statement after the killing of alex pretti.
▶ 1:19:41Sen. Blumenthal: You said on fox news, "unfortunately, an individual, a deranged individual that came to cause max damage with loaded pistol with an extra mag completely loaded shot and killed." and you regret that, do you not?
▶ 1:19:59Sen. Mullin: I already said that, yes, sir.
▶ 1:20:05Sen. Blumenthal: What about what you said about renee good after she was shutting killed? You appeared on cnn and you are asked whether you believed the shooting was justified and replied, "absolutely." do you regret that statement as well?
▶ 1:20:18Sen. Mullin: It is very clear that an officer had to make a split decision in that case a car was running towards him and did strike him. At that point, that car becomes a lethal weapon. As that -- there was another officer obviously giving her verbal commands.
▶ 1:20:41Sen. Blumenthal: I apologize for interrupting what you're saying you do not regret that statement.
▶ 1:20:43Sen. Mullin: I'm saying the investigation is going on.
▶ 1:20:48Sen. Blumenthal: There is no investigation. My next question, do not you think there should be an investigation?
▶ 1:20:53Sen. Mullin: My understanding is there is. I will find out if I'm able to be confirmed.
▶ 1:21:00Sen. Blumenthal: In fact, the department of homeland security and the trump administration has blocked state and local investigation of the killing of renee good. I hope you will permit that investigation to go forward.
▶ 1:21:16Sen. Mullin: State and local investigation does not investigate federal. Fbi does that, doj. I believe the fbi is looking into this case. I do want to say something to you. What you said about the terrible conditions this administration is putting on kids but what you left out is they have actually recovered over 160,000 kids that were trafficked or lost during the biden administration.
▶ 1:21:45Sen. Mullin: What is inhumane is the 12,000 to 13,000 individuals coming across the border every single day and we are not having tracked the kids. At one time the number was 300 --
▶ 1:21:55Sen. Blumenthal: You said that you are going to be, and I'm quoting you, "blunt and directly to the point." I regret that you don't retract that statement about renee good. I want to ask about a statement that was made regarding the pretti killing by steve miller in the white house read he said, " pretti was a domestic terrorist who "try to assassinate federal law
▶ 1:22:26Sen. Blumenthal: Enforcement." don't you think was responsible and reckless for stephen miller to close that claim on x without any evidence just as you have retracted your statement?
▶ 1:22:37Sen. Mullin: I believe that question is better as to stephen miller not myself. I cannot speak for him.
▶ 1:22:46Sen. Blumenthal: He said "under president trump's leadership, we are looking to set a goal of a minimum of 3000 arrests for ice every day." if confirmed, will you address them to arrest 3000 people a day?
▶ 1:23:02Sen. Mullin: Once again, cannot speak for stephen miller but I can say the president has tapped me to be the secretary of homeland and I will lead that department and I will eat it --
▶ 1:23:15Sen. Blumenthal: Will you contender the arrest quoted 3000 a day? Sen. mullin: there is no quota. The president of the united states says the policies and I will be working with the president. If you have a question for stephen miller, please --
▶ 1:23:33Sen. Blumenthal: I regret that you are going to stick to those same policies and practices and condone the statements of the white house that are so demeaning to someone who is a victim of lawlessness and recklessness by an ice officer.
▶ 1:23:47Sen. Mullin: I did not say that.
▶ 1:23:51Sen. Blumenthal: Let me ask a different question. Ice has been breaking into people's homes without any judicial warrant. The sanctity of our homes is absolutely critical. I think you would agree with that point. It is the law that judicial warrant is required to forcibly enter someone's home.
▶ 1:24:14Sen. Blumenthal: Kristi noem acknowledged in her testimony in response to my questions that at least 28 break-ins have occurred. My ranking member leadership on the subcommittee for permanent investigation has produced a report that shows probably many more such break-ins have occurred.
▶ 1:24:39Sen. Blumenthal: The result of a memo last may from the acting director todd lyons, and it is behind me now, that instructed ice agents to break into homes. I understand that during your staff interview last week, you said there would be no more such break-ins to people's homes. Without a judicial warrant.
▶ 1:25:03Sen. Blumenthal: If confirmed, we commit to me and the chair and member -- ranking member of this committee and the american people that ice will no longer instruct agents to break into people's homes without a judicial warrant?
▶ 1:25:17Sen. Mullin: Sir, your using the word "break into people's houses" loosely. However, I have made it clear to the staff and I think when you and I spoke that a judicial warrant will be used to go into houses in place of businesses unless or pursuing -- we are pursuing someone that intercept place. I have not mixed words with that and I have not changed my opinion.
▶ 1:25:41Sen. Blumenthal: A whistleblower testified to our hearing that in fact ice agents had been instructed as part of their training to forcibly enter -- I know you don't like the word "break-in" but forcibly enter is breaking into somebody's home, bashing down the door, terrorizing children. Instructed them to adopt this policy.
▶ 1:26:04Sen. Blumenthal: Will you commit that no longer will ice agents or cbp agents be instructed to forcibly enter people's homes without a judicial warrant?
▶ 1:26:14Sen. Mullin: I already answered. I said we will not enter a home or place of business unless we are pursuing an individual that runs into a place of business or a house.
▶ 1:26:25Chair Paul: Senator lankford.
▶ 1:26:29Sen. Lankford: Is fema currently funded?
▶ 1:26:33Sen. Mullin: No sir. Simple langford cybersecurity?
▶ 1:26:38Sen. Mullin: No sir.
▶ 1:26:41Sen. Lankford: Secret service? Coast guard? Customs and border protection?
▶ 1:26:45Sen. Mullin: No sir.
▶ 1:26:49Sen. Lankford: The weapons of mass destruction office? Customs professions?
▶ 1:26:52Sen. Mullin: No sir.
▶ 1:26:56Sen. Lankford: This is something we have to get resolved. We can complain all we want about where things are but we have an argument in a disagreement on policy areas and a quarter one million federal and place and families are the one suffering because of our argument. There's a way to solve this. We have talked about it a lot. We should just stay here until we are done. Just keep arguing it out until we solve the problem. But instead, we broke last weekend.
▶ 1:27:26Sen. Lankford: Everybody flew home right past the tsa agents that are not getting paid while we flew home. Why didn't we stay? That is my encouragement and has been my encouragement all along. We should not walk away from a disagreement when their families all over the country that are the ones suffering for it. Unfortunately from the state of oklahoma is pretty familiar with natural disasters as you know well. You and I have been in multiple disaster scenes.
▶ 1:27:55Sen. Lankford: There's a lot of work happening at the border. The border has moved from 12,000 people a day illegally crossing the border to being released into the country and vetted, and checked to now a handful of people even attempt across our southern border those arrested and detained. As is the law. Fema is still an undone project. I'm not blaming that on christie. There's a lot to get done on that. But you're going to walk in with the project going on with fema right now.
▶ 1:28:24Sen. Lankford: I would love to get your ideas and thoughts, you are familiar with this and have great experience, what are your thoughts on how to get fema to better place the people are not waiting?
▶ 1:28:34Sen. Mullin: Fema was never designed to be the first responder. That is to states. Fema was designed to be the assistance to the states when the disaster reaches certain levels, which we need to discuss those, too, because I think some of the levels are unrealistic, especially what senator hassan and I have talked about that sometimes in rural areas, they are not able to meet those thresholds.
▶ 1:29:01Sen. Mullin: Working with the state, allowing the state to have the emergency response, fema simply helping write checks and assuring they have the capability and the manpower if need be. But for fema to walk in like fbi walking on a crime scene and taking over, no one is going to care more about their backyard that people that live in the state. I think there are a lot of good ideas. I have met with some of you all that there were great ideas on how to make fema work better. It has got a great mission.
▶ 1:29:31Sen. Mullin: I think people fema want to do the job that we could be more effective and be more direct and speed it up. Taking years to get reimbursed is not acceptable. Taking months to get reimbursed is not acceptable. Small municipalities, they cannot afford it. They don't have the tax base to do it. They're already going through struggling time which means they're probably losing tax revenue, especially if it hits their town. We have got a lot of work.
▶ 1:29:59Sen. Mullin: I do believe the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. That means we are going to look at each one of the agencies that fall under dhs is a how can we deliver the mission better for the american people.
▶ 1:30:13Sen. Lankford: That would be a huge help. Talking but the length of time it takes to get a response, you have been a part of, as I have come on the nonprofit security grants out there. We have some locations that are higher risk than others. Synagogues and temples have been one of those very high risk locations out there.
▶ 1:30:31Sen. Lankford: Last week in michigan, we had another situation where an absolute terrorist drove a vehicle packed with explosives into a jewish day care intending to kill as many jewish children as he possibly could. That was his intent. That location happened to be one of the locations where there is also nonprofit security grants. We have multiple challenges here.
▶ 1:31:00Sen. Lankford: One is when the decision is made , they make a request, go to the paperwork, get approval to be one of those locations that we say, hey, we need to harden this location. Once approval is done, it may take months to over a year just for the dollars to come on it because there's more bureaucratic hoops to go through.
▶ 1:31:19Sen. Lankford: As you are dealing with things like contracts out there and the way decisions are made or fema, one of the areas I would encourage you to take a look at -- I know you are passionate about -- how do you fix the issue were approval has been done and everyone is saying, great, could we get to work? The government says, no, you can't. You have to wait more before the actual work can begin. How does that get fixed?
▶ 1:31:41Sen. Mullin: We have to streamline the process and stop the redundancies. We had a long conversation about this. The amount of paperwork once you're approved to get the funding flowing and then the paperwork followed up on it is way too cumbersome. There's a better way to do this. I have to work with you on this policies. Some of these grants were written with checks and balances we all have to be very cautious on how we spent the taxpayer dollars.
▶ 1:32:12Sen. Mullin: Things I can change, things I can cut out on the redundancy part of it, I will work with. Things as the senator and I talked about, things that it may take you to make changes on, we will bring it to her attention. I will work with you. And we will see how we can make it better.
▶ 1:32:28Sen. Lankford: Thank you. Oklahoma has been one of the leaders encounter drone. This is a big issue. Every high school football game, every college football game, every gathering of people for every festival and gathering across the country has become a risk location for drones, drone mitigation. The fbi cannot be everywhere. We don't want them to be everywhere. We have to figure out some process.
▶ 1:32:53Sen. Lankford: As you begin to think about this issue, it is a tough one to do with, but the basic national security issue as well that will land on your desk pretty quickly. Especially with the olympics coming, fifa, all those things that are happening. We have to be able to figure out how to do encounter drone and not just identify "there it is" that mitigate the risk. What are your initial thoughts?
▶ 1:33:14Sen. Mullin: With funding, talking to some of her agency heads, with the lack of funding right now we have people quitting because I've got to go to work. Meeting these demands will be tougher. We talk about fifa for instance. Talk about 2028, which will be the busiest year of dhs in history because the olympics and presidential election going on. It will take four months once funding comes in to start replacing those we have lost her training before we can get them in the field.
▶ 1:33:44Sen. Mullin: We don't have four months with fifa. How do we expect these people to stay on the job and work? We are losing institutional knowledge, people we've already trained, and is risk would be difficult to deliver this mission. The way I understand it, we are behind in fifa on actually delivering the mission we have two and behind reimbursing local community's also working with us.
▶ 1:34:10Sen. Mullin: That will have to take a tremendous amount of focus and partnership. Like I said my opening statement, failure is not an option so after deliver. Sometimes when you have to rush like this, especially try to get people on the job because we just quit finding them for the third time in less than a year and we expect these people to keep working, it puts the mission at risk. And we have a lot of work to do here. Simple and
▶ 1:34:45Sen. Lankford: Thank you.
▶ 1:34:46Chair Paul: Senator kim.
▶ 1:34:50Sen. Kim: Thank you. Senator mullin, thank you for coming out. I wanted to start, secretary noem said in a cabinet meeting almost exactly a year ago today that we should be eliminating fema. Can you commit to us here that you don't support that approach and you would not attempt to eliminate fema?
▶ 1:35:08Sen. Mullin: As I said, I think it needs to be restructured not eliminated.
▶ 1:35:15Sen. Kim: I think there's going to be bipartisan support for reforms. I think we all understand it and we saw problems when it came to superstorm sandy. I asked secretary noem to work with us, especially as they were going about their fema review council. I will be honest, that never materialized. We did not see the kind of engagement here that we are ready to have. We have a bipartisan group of senators that want to come up with reforms. Is that something you can commit to working with us on?
▶ 1:35:40Sen. Mullin: I think all of us in the house or senate always complain about the outreach of agencies. I will make a commitment to you I'm going to have the best. We are going -- it is going to take a couple of months but we are going to have a shop that you know -- I think everybody on this dais as my personal cell phone. That self-doubt is not going to change.
▶ 1:36:07Sen. Mullin: If you call me, you are going to get a response. If you text me, you are going to get a response.
▶ 1:36:13Sen. Kim: When we have this fema review come out, is that something will come to us first and engage with us on rather than just implementing straight out from the executive branch on your own?
▶ 1:36:23Sen. Mullin: I am pretty sure that you guys set the policies and mission for fema, so for any serious changes come, tech policy changes.
▶ 1:36:33Sen. Kim: I appreciate that but we have seen a lot of significant problems happen, for instance we saw about 2400 staff cuts at fema. Again, we are not talking about reforms but talking about those trying to respond to these disasters every single day. I wanted to ask if confirmed, will you stop these dangerous staff cuts that have reduced fema's disaster readiness?
▶ 1:36:57Sen. Mullin: I'm not trying to play politics but what has been the's biggest disaster is not funding three times in a year. Some of these agencies under the current -- all of them got very bloated with having too many --
▶ 1:37:13Sen. Kim: You still think there are too many staff at fema?
▶ 1:37:16Sen. Mullin: I can answer that. We will be adequately staffed to respond to our nations disasters. It will take time to get there. People are quitting today because they're not getting paid for the third time in a year. We can't allow that to take place.
▶ 1:37:32Sen. Kim: I agree and I hope we can move forward. One thing that has demonstrated a lack of priority by this administration is the fact we never actually had a full nominee for fema. I wanted to ask, do you agree we need an actual nominee to be a full fema administrator that has real experience in emergency management?
▶ 1:37:50Sen. Mullin: Absolutely. We are already looking at some in the case we do get confirmed, which I'm hopeful we do, we are making that a priority. Each one of our agencies. The confirmation has to go through you.
▶ 1:38:05Sen. Kim: I get a bit if you can get a nominee before us, I hope that is a commitment you will make.
▶ 1:38:10Sen. Mullin: By the experience that I've had an interesting experience, it is a lot to ask someone. They have to be fully committed. If they go through this process, it is tough. I would ask you if I do do this, give them a fair shake. For me, a lot of you guys are not giving me a fair shake to earn your support. If I bring some videos to you, maybe you'll give them a fair shake and work with them.
▶ 1:38:37Sen. Mullin: Because I'm going to find somebody that is capable of doing the job that is smarter than me doing the job, that has experienced during the job. When they come to your office and asked for support, do not tell them it is politics or say "I can't" or "support of the previous one but I got burned on that one so I can't support you." give them a fair opportunity. You might actually like the person.
▶ 1:39:00Sen. Kim: It is not just the person it is about the policies at large. What we saw before him a present secretary noem had this policy that required her approval for anything that was going out the door, grants, funding, over $100,000. I will be honest, it was disastrous. It held up so much of the funding to fema and other parts of dhs. Senator peters and I did a review of this, over 1000 fema contracts, grants, disaster assistance were delayed.
▶ 1:39:30Sen. Kim: I wanted to ask if we -- if you can commit to revoking this $100,000 policy by secretary noem?
▶ 1:39:36Sen. Mullin: We talked in your office about that and absolutely. That is called micromanaging and I don't know if the secretary put that in or someone else. I'm not a micromanager. We put people in and empower them to make decisions. We will have a very clear line of communication with every one of our agencies heads on their authority that is given to you or you gave to them within their parameters. We will discuss but we are also going to be very responsible for the taxpayer dollars.
▶ 1:40:06Sen. Mullin: It is unrealistic to ask --
▶ 1:40:07Sen. Kim: Adding so much red tape. Especially when it came to disaster response with the texas floods. I want to switch gears. This is something we talked about but we have this effort right now ice has purchased a warehouse in new jersey, facility the size of eight football fields to has over 1500 detainees.
▶ 1:40:29Sen. Kim: Never once did an ice official talked to the local mayor or the local law enforcement and assess the situation alongside the locals. Is that fair that dhs is imposing these types of large-scale detention facilities without local engagement?
▶ 1:40:45Sen. Mullin: Being from small rural oklahoma, it is a big impact in the community should be visited with, especially when you start taking a warehouse off the tax roll which could make a huge impact in your to do with the impact aid if they are eligible for it. And then you have to talk about infrastructure. One thing I do know is construction. When you start talking about infrastructure on these places, warehouse sprinkler system is much smaller than when you're housing individuals.
▶ 1:41:14Sen. Mullin: If you -- I think he said the town is 60,000 people. I believe you said --
▶ 1:41:20Sen. Kim: Smaller than that, 22,000 people. In which detainees and the staff would constitute about 10% of the population of that town.
▶ 1:41:29Sen. Mullin: Realistically, most municipalities don't have the capacity in their infrastructure for waste and water. So it is important we are talking to communities and if we are having additional needs, we can work with the cities, work with the disabilities. We should always communicate.
▶ 1:41:48Sen. Kim: I agree and this town has only 42 police officers, a fire -- volunteer fire department. Does that sound like a town that has resources to take on a warehouse this size?
▶ 1:42:00Sen. Mullin: I committed you and I visited with you in your office, we will talk. I even said let's get on the phone with the mayor. I will make a trip out there if I'm confirmed and see it for myself because it is a big concern of yours and we want to address those concerns. Listen, if it is not practical -- I also said there may be a specific reason why it is they are. If I can't explain that to you, then that is a different story.
▶ 1:42:28Sen. Mullin: If there is a specific reason that I can make it make sense, let's talk about it. If not, maybe we can be --
▶ 1:42:34Sen. Kim: I'm glad you committed talking about appeared there are documents I asked ice to send us about the evaluations and we have yet to get it. Is that --
▶ 1:42:45Sen. Mullin: If the documents are available, yes. I offered something much better, I will go with you personally that is something the local community will appreciate and hope you will reassess.
▶ 1:42:57Sen. Mullin: As I said, we want to protect the home that we also went peace of mind and bring that competence to department of homeland security. And all of this means we have got to work on that. I will work on that. >> congratulations on your nomination. This is a great honor that you have an great background. I know you're working or about off in the job like everything else.
▶ 1:43:23Sen. Mullin: President trump, want to thank him for his leadership. Incredible progress has been made in our streets are safer, borders respected and the jobs we have created are going to people in this country legally. As a result of the partial shutdown, the fourth week of tsa agents are not getting paid, everybody in this room is getting paid. If we don't pass budgets, we should not get paid.
▶ 1:43:53Sen. Mullin: I've had one of my democratic colleagues say, oh, I have a mortgage. I have to get paid. Think about all of these people, tsa agents are not getting paid, airlines -- airport lines are in gridlock, coast guard, operations are shrinking amid rising threats to homeland.
▶ 1:44:11Sen. Mullin: My understanding is ice ages are getting paid but not ice leadership rate last week two terrorists protect our citizens, killing at least one person -- two terrorists attacked our citizens, killing at least one person. Is making sure we don't get these attacks on our soil. Brave actions of future military officers, citizens and law enforcement to stop these tragedies that could have been massacres.
▶ 1:44:41Sen. Mullin: Still americans are losing lives when my democrat colleagues. How do you view democrats recklessly holding dhs funds hostage at the expense of our national security amid threats from iran and its proxies?
▶ 1:45:01Sen. Mullin: Senator, it is unconscionable. How can he sit there with a straight face and say that we are trying to take care of the american worker when you are choosing to not pay 260,000 people and you are affecting their families? We have heard the stories of families having to stand in charitable lines for basic needs are getting a loan.
▶ 1:45:31Sen. Mullin: Like I said, this is not the first time. We are a month into this. They just came out about 43 shutdown where they are probably just recovering. Yet we are going to sit there with a straight face and say it is not about politics?
▶ 1:45:46Sen. Scott: Local authorities can -- criminals are released back into the community rather than transferred safely to ice custody. I can't imagine anybody elected that once criminals back in their community. But that is happening. It creates -- tragic murder. Forces dhs officers to go into neighborhoods to root out violent criminals which is way more dangerous for everybody.
▶ 1:46:16Sen. Scott: Not only does this cost the taxpayer more but increases the risk for everybody involved including bystanders, dhs officers from a future victims. We see this play out right now just a few miles away were local officials in fairfax, virginia refusing to turn over an illegal immigrant arrested for raping 12 underaged students. In the local electives want to put that person back out into the community. Not even here legally. Instead of turning them over to ice, prosecutors are trying to get him released.
▶ 1:46:47Sen. Scott: This is just one example of how sanctuary city policies choose to put illegal aliens over american citizens. How do you plan to deal with sanctuary cities like los angeles and chicago to remove criminal illegal aliens?
▶ 1:46:59Sen. Mullin: Server, it has been a difficult conversation that has been had with the sanctuary cities. As I said going on, we don't get to choose which laws we enforce. As elected officials, we should not choose which laws we enforce. We are not asking about forced immigration, just be good partners. If we have to serve judicial warrants, let us.
▶ 1:47:24Sen. Mullin: If you pullover somebody wanted that is in the country illegally and it is a municipality, hold and prayed at least let us do a background check to see who they are. In working with the municipalities will be important but also have to take a look at if they're not willing to enforce federal law and work with us, then where are the taxpayer dollars going to?
▶ 1:47:50Sen. Mullin: Ideally, I would like to go in and talk to the mayors and the sheriff's and the police chiefs and say, what are your concerns? How can we get past this? There president has made it clear he wants to protect the streets for every american. He wants to restore law and order to every city. I don't think that should be controversial. Some people have for political purposes or maybe they did not like the tactics.
▶ 1:48:17Sen. Mullin: Either way, I find it really hard to believe law enforcement in those communities don't want to do the job. Maybe we sit down and we just work it out. Like I tell my wife all the time, sometimes when she gets mad at me -- I'm right and she's wrong, by the way -- sometimes when she gets mad at me, have to apologize because I simply said -- that was a joke for everybody that is married. I have to apologize and sometimes I tell her, honey, it is a misunderstanding. We still love each other. We still want the best for our family.
▶ 1:48:47Sen. Mullin: I would say these law enforcement and mayors still love their communities and cities. They still love this country. Maybe it is a misunderstanding. I'm going to start with that. If we have to do something different, we will but that is where I will start. A misunderstanding but we will force laws and make sure we protect everybody in the city and hopefully work with them and never work against them.
▶ 1:49:09Sen. Scott: Do you have ability to ban funding to sanctuary cities that ignore federal laws meant to make citizens lifesaver but then turn around and ask for federal money for added protection?
▶ 1:49:23Sen. Mullin: Sir, that would be a last option. At the end of the day, taxpayer dollars have to be used for the right purposes.
▶ 1:49:36Sen. Mullin: And if people are refusing to enforce the nation's laws, I think this really hard to justify why we are sending them taxpayer dollars that are coming out of oklahoma or out of florida or coming out of kansas or arkansas when they are making that decision. But I will say that is not going to be my first or second or even third approach. That would be my last resort.
▶ 1:50:02Sen. Scott: Congratulations on your nomination. Good luck.
▶ 1:50:05Chair Paul: Senator fetterman.
▶ 1:50:11Sen. Fetterman: Thank you. Hello. Thank you for coming in today. Americans don't like chaos. America definitely did not like the kinds of chaos during the biden administration at the border.
▶ 1:50:36Sen. Fetterman: As a democrat, I was alarmed that there were up to 300,000 encounters at our border once a month. And that put that in perspective that is the size of pittsburgh showing up at our border. And that is not sustainable. And that is not manageable. It is making it impossible for us to assimilate.
▶ 1:51:01Sen. Fetterman: Now if you care about immigration as I deeply do, you can't possibly provide the american dream for people when the size of pittsburgh showing up at our border once a month. That needed to be brought under control. And that happened. It happened. I signed up as a democrat. The second part is rounding up all of the criminals and deport them. I can't imagine why we can't agree with that as well, too.
▶ 1:51:31Sen. Fetterman: That is another thing that I signed up. One name that often does not come from my side is laken riley. I agree -- I grieve for renee good and alex pretti but also for laken riley and their family and all three were failures of our government in that circumstance. And as I was proud to be the cosponsor of the laken riley bill because we have to address that. Two things must be true here.
▶ 1:52:02Sen. Fetterman: We need to have a secure border and have to round up and report every single criminal in our nation. I can't imagine why that is critical or controversial for anybody. That is what I'm trying to find a way forward. You and I have had conversations on this, and that is your commitment to focus on those things. I believe that is effective, accurate, correct?
▶ 1:52:27Sen. Mullin: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:52:30Sen. Fetterman: And another thing, I know there is a lot of hard personal feelings here and absolutely it is terrible what has happened and political violence, it is rampant. But also present o'brien is here for around two because he fully supports your commitment, correct? Round three. Ok.
▶ 1:53:01Sen. Fetterman: It is about letting it go and moving on and I have done that. When I was in the hospital and things were touching go. I know there were unkind things said about me but I could just say it is better to let it all go and to find a way forward. That is the time we are in right now in our country.
▶ 1:53:24Sen. Fetterman: Now, people might describe you in those kinds of moments, but I'm going to describe you -- we got a chance to get to know better when we joined in turks and caicos.
▶ 1:53:37Sen. Mullin: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:53:42Sen. Fetterman: We did that because americans were looking at over a decade in prison because they had a couple random bullets in their luggage. And those americans ran the gamut of a black grandmother from florida I believe florida, and pennsylvania that live in western pennsylvania that I did. And I was able to welcome him at the airport when he returned. So that was about a commitment to working together.
▶ 1:54:12Sen. Fetterman: Imagine just because of a couple of random bullets accidentally, they were looking at over a decade in prison. We worked together and not one single american really faced that kind of thing. So that is about committed to working together. Also, as a democrat, I may be the only democrat that refused shutting dhs down. Some people might say that doesn't mean I have any less commitment to reform ice.
▶ 1:54:46Sen. Fetterman: That is categorically not true. It is a strange devotion for it I don't understand why you would shut the entire agency down just because you want those kind of reforms on ice that has no absolute impact on ice. I refuse to do that and refuse to punish those union members that are working and especially -- it's like the cyber agency, part of dhs?
▶ 1:55:09Sen. Mullin: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:55:12Sen. Fetterman: That is currently shut down. And now two of the top agents of cyber attacks come from iran and china. They must be elated to know that is shut down because that is part of the shutdown that does not bring in a reform to ice. I want less than any other democrat here -- the difference is I refuse to punish and make our nation less secure part of that.
▶ 1:55:41Sen. Fetterman: So for me, I came here and I committed to come here with an open mind. I'm going to continue to do that. And it is not going to be about gotcha moments for me. Mike sprints with you has been consistent kindness and professionalism. -- my experience with you has been consistent kindness and professionalism.
▶ 1:56:02Sen. Fetterman: I was here at the orientation senate and even before you got the call for the big job, we haven't discussed about getting together and having dinner as a family. That is an ongoing relationship because that is also part of the fact here in this town you have to get along and find a way to work together. And now we have to come at it and just let things go in the best for that. Finding a way forward, that is my responsibility to represent pennsylvania.
▶ 1:56:31Sen. Fetterman: For you, I just want to thank you for showing up and now I'm going to engage in I'm going to remain with an open mind throughout this as I made my friend here and I'm going to do that. Thank you for bringing your family here, too. I look forward to hearing for the rest of my colleagues views on you.
▶ 1:56:49Chair Paul: Senator ernst.
▶ 1:56:52Sen. Ernst: Thank you. Senator mullin, I have to say I'm just going to be blunt, very honest, I hope the president is watching. I'm going to say to the president, I am really upset that he has made your nomination. Why? Because I will be losing from the senate one of the best friends that I have here. Truly.
▶ 1:57:22Sen. Ernst: But in that same accord, I'm so grateful to the president for making your nomination to department of homeland security. We have had a lot of discussion here. I know just as senator fetterman said, there are a lot of differences and opinions on the politics surrounding dhs. Senator fetterman mentioned he grieves for all of those that we have lost.
▶ 1:57:52Sen. Ernst: Those protesters. We grieve the loss of young women, young men that we have seen at the hands of that have migrated illegally into the united states of america. We grieve them all. And I think we can acknowledge that. It is important we do that. We are really and trying times right now. -- we are in really trying times right now.
▶ 1:58:19Sen. Ernst: I want to focus on the bipartisanship that you have had with so many members in the house, in the senate, the relationships that you have outside of this body. Because I think it is really important. We get in the political fights all the time and we are all trying to score points back and forth. Bipartisanship is not very sexy. But I think we need a lot more of it. Josh gottheimer was here today.
▶ 1:58:53Sen. Ernst: I respect him so much. And the fact you remain friends today is incredibly important. I notice he also gave joe kennedy a shout out. I sent him a picture I took of you from the dais because I know joe really well as well. There are so many relationships that we have in this body. I wish more people would see. That we have this relationships. We carried them in our hearts.
▶ 1:59:18Sen. Ernst: It means we are better people because we open our minds to listen. And to that point, I want to thank you, Mr. o'brien, for being here as well. Because what started out as a very big difference between you and Mr. o'brien, you found a way to both of you come together to share thoughts and ideas and turn something really good out of that discourse. I think more people need to learn how to do that.
▶ 1:59:47Sen. Ernst: So to all my friends sitting here in the dais and those that are watching, this is how america works. Where we are able to take differences and come together and not just shout it one another but come together and figure out a way forward. That is what makes this country such an incredibly brilliant country is that we can recognize those differences.
▶ 2:00:16Sen. Ernst: I want to talk a little bit about a trip we took last year. Many folks know you serve on armed services and I served on armed services prayed we do congressional aggression visits. A little over a year ago or about a year ago, senator mullin led a congressional delegation visit into a country that had not been visited by an official delegation trip in 15 years.
▶ 2:00:50Sen. Ernst: Along that trip, I was also there. Chairman smith was on this trip as well as well as democrat jimmy panetta of california. We went to syria. We sat down with the president there for his first official visit from united states of america now, a lot of people will say he was a member of al
▶ 2:01:21Sen. Ernst: Qaeda, what you doing sitting down with somebody that was a member of al qaeda? It is the same reason we sit down with people that we have differences with, to find a way forward. Senator mullin, I would like you to talk a little bit about that trip and why you believed it was important that we do that.
▶ 2:01:42Sen. Mullin: Thank you, senator. You are right, the president of syria wasn't really somebody we should have a lot of common ground with. Him and I talked about that. I had a very blunt relationship about it. But the fact is, our world is different and there are different leaders for different countries in different places. You have to understand the region and the area they are in.
▶ 2:02:08Sen. Mullin: We are not in the business of necessarily picking leaders but when we do, hopefully there is a way we can work it out. If you remember, the president of the time said, when I was younger, I was fed a lot of propaganda. I am paraphrasing. He says, but when I was in american prison in iraq, he started looking at things different.
▶ 2:02:35Sen. Mullin: And then he also went on to say, yes, I was affiliated with al qaeda but it is much like you guys with russia, it was interesting to me I went to the history. He said it is like you being affiliated with russia and china in world war ii and were you are today. Sometimes in war when we are fighting for our country, I left iraq and came back and fought for syria because that is my home. We had the most diverse population in the history of the world in damascus.
▶ 2:03:02Sen. Mullin: And I don't want the foreign influence. And after I got out, I realized my fight is for my country not for this necessarily organization but for me to get resources, get fighters, to build to fight for my country and. He said I never plan on being president, I just wanted to get my home back. I find myself here. He was open he says, I've made mistakes. I said, I've made mistakes, too.
▶ 2:03:29Sen. Mullin: I said, we're not perfect but if we can work together, trust but verify. >> he said I wanted a relationship of the united states. I want that relationship. That is not common for someone with al qaeda ties. That is somebody who says, yes my past of my past but I'm looking to the future. I think we all have a pass. We can learn from successes and failures in our past. But if we can grab the past that we made a mistake on his head, yeah, that is a mistake I'm not going to make again, that is a lesson -- that is where wisdom comes from.
▶ 2:03:58Sen. Mullin: You can also learn from successes. That is considered salmon that has the potential to be a leader. I would rather work with those leaders like that than to continue to see the civil war that was going on. And in some cases still going on in syria.
▶ 2:04:15Sen. Ernst: I use this to demonstrate how we all have significant differences. We come from different backgrounds. I have been on a lot of congressional delegation visits, folks. A lot in the 12 years I've been here.
▶ 2:04:31Sen. Ernst: But to what senator mullin leave this delegation and to be able to speak to someone that is far different than we are and bring our countries that closer together, I know he will do that with every one of us serving in congress. I know you will represent us very well. You will represent the administration very well. You will make our country safer. Thank you, senator mullin. Thank you, christie, for your friendship as well.
▶ 2:05:00Chair Paul: Senator slotkin.
▶ 2:05:02Sen. Slotkin: Thank you for being here up our conversation yesterday. I want to actually add on to what senator lankford was saying and focus on the attack we had at a temple very close to my heart in michigan. A place I know well. Last week we had an anti-semitic attack meant to terrorize not just that synagogue but the entire jewish community.
▶ 2:05:29Sen. Slotkin: I think the light is blinking red and that is the feeling for the jewish community. Just as an objective statement, the jewish community is 10 times more likely to be the victim of a hate crime than all other religious groups combined. That is not a political statement, that is a factual statement from fbi data. And we talked about the need to work together.
▶ 2:05:59Sen. Slotkin: The jewish community is spending about $1 billion a year privately securing their own institutions. No religious group should have two spend that amount of money that could be going to lots of other things on their own security in the united states of america.
▶ 2:06:18Sen. Slotkin: I would ask or help in reforming the nonprofit security grant program so it is agile, so you don't have to win the grant and then still do 100 pieces of paper, maybe even looking at rapid reaction find. It was certainly asking for some sort of task force -- I'm thinking about the community in australia that went to the australian government, jewish community and said, we are seeing real uptick in threads, we are terrified. And then we have bondi beach and the horrible thing.
▶ 2:06:48Sen. Slotkin: Can we just agree in public again in a bipartisan basis to sit together, to reform this program and figure out how we manage to the threat? Because we are not hitting it right now.
▶ 2:06:58Sen. Mullin: Center, have a wealth of knowledge for your service in the intel community and you will know this issue probably better than me. So I would welcome the opportunity to sit down and talk to you and figure -- I know this is personal to you. And that is great. We may have some differences on some political views but this isn't one. You and I will be laser focused and get this resolved if it is possible. Yes, I would absolutely welcome an opportunity to work with you.
▶ 2:07:28Sen. Slotkin: I appreciate it. In general, your position or your future position as secretary of homeland security sits at like the fulcrum of these big issues you're having as a country. Just big cultural issues. The use of law enforcement in our streets and where our rights begin and end, and then our elections, our democracy.
▶ 2:07:54Sen. Slotkin: Given the importance of that, I think it is important we state clearly where you are on those two issues. I think first and foremost on the use of ice. My state voted for donald trump in 2024. A lot of people supported the president's immigration agenda.
▶ 2:08:16Sen. Slotkin: But then they watched with their own eyes, not filtered through a new source, they watched with their own eyes american citizens killed in the streets protesting. They saw children caught in the crossfire and being tear gassed. They saw people randomly being pulled out of their cars, walking on the streets because they happen to look like they could be an immigrant and checked for their papers -- which for many of us, has a real history.
▶ 2:08:44Sen. Slotkin: They have seen people go -- law enforcement going to people's homes without a judicial warrant. For a country that was invented because we were being oppressed by a foreign force that demanded entry into our homes. So you say you don't want ice in the news, want to rebuild trust. Your predecessor was fired because she cannot manage that. People had to go in and bring the temperature down.
▶ 2:09:08Sen. Slotkin: Can you, without other words, just state clearly what you would be willing to do to fundamentally reform ice and put into law to do so since that trust is gone?
▶ 2:09:21Sen. Mullin: As you know, I can't make the law. You guys make the law.
▶ 2:09:27Sen. Slotkin: For you will be the secretary. Tell us what you would be willing to put into law.
▶ 2:09:32Sen. Mullin: Let's -- right now the law that I walk into is your decision. We will work to do that. I believe there's a better approach. Working with municipalities, I would love to see ice become and transport more than the front line. If we can get back into simply working with law enforcement, we are going to them and picking up criminals from their jail, we will reimburse him for having that person there. And partnership is important.
▶ 2:10:04Sen. Mullin: I don't think there needs to be a law that. I think I can work within what is there but there is an approach that can't happen but we have to have -- that can happen but we have cap partners.
▶ 2:10:16Sen. Slotkin: We are not going to agree to this year but I would just say the ability, the trust is gone and not just with democrats. That is why we are here, why your predecessor was fired. There needs to be fundamental reform of this law enforcement agency. I think the public at large is crying out for that. Let me turn to elections. The department of homeland security has the mandate since the obama era for securing our elections infrastructure.
▶ 2:10:46Sen. Slotkin: That is an important job. Will be secretary. -- you will be secretary. The president has continued to say he won the 2020 election even though there have been court cases saying the opposite. He has said he wants to federalize the elections. He has said name check cities, including detroit. He has said voting machines are inaccurate.
▶ 2:11:12Sen. Slotkin: He has had in the state of the unit -- I was on the senate floor -- paraphrase, if his side doesn't win in november the elections are rigged which is exactly what he said statements before the 2020 election. You have your own history. You did not certify the 2020 election. There are people at the department of homeland security three people specifically, who are well-known election deniers now running election security functions. Who won the 2020 election?
▶ 2:11:42Sen. Mullin: Ma'am, we know president joe biden was sworn into office. But I do believe --
▶ 2:11:50Sen. Slotkin: Who do you believe --
▶ 2:11:51Sen. Mullin: My job will be to make sure we assure the elections are fair and people can trust them.
▶ 2:11:59Sen. Slotkin: Does the federal government run the elections process or do states?
▶ 2:12:03Sen. Mullin: It is clear in the constitution that the states control state elections and there is some federal oversight but the federal government can set standards. If you're talking about the state of america act, requiring you, and in the constitution by the way, requiring individuals to be citizens of the united states. I don't think it is too much estimate to prove they are a citizen of the united states.
▶ 2:12:28Sen. Slotkin: If you are secretary of homeland security, do you feel you have the authority to put uniformed officers at polling locations in 2026?
▶ 2:12:37Sen. Mullin: The only reason why my office would be there would be if there was a specific threat for my officers to be there not for intimidation.
▶ 2:12:44Sen. Slotkin: Even though we did not needed during world war ii or vietnam or the war on terror, never had to put uniformed military they are, now you feel there is going to be a reason -- an armed threat to the united states?
▶ 2:12:58Sen. Mullin: I can guarantee hypothetically what threats would be or not. I'm not putting military, not with --
▶ 2:13:05Sen. Slotkin: Sorry come uniformed officers.
▶ 2:13:08Sen. Mullin: If there is a specific threat, say there is a jewish community and there is a specific threat to that polling area, then we will work with local law enforcement. There will be a reason for us to be there and it will be known why we are there.
▶ 2:13:22Sen. Slotkin: I think why you're here and not kristi noem is because americans trust for local law enforcement now way more than they trust ice. If we ever get to the point where you are being asked to put armed ice officers at polling locations, we have lost the plot as a country. We have fundamentally lost it.
▶ 2:13:41Sen. Slotkin: Until I hear someone tell me that this man, president trump, actually allow us to have a free and fair election, there is zero trust here and I cannot trust he won't try and steal it. Again. I yield back.
▶ 2:13:56Chair Paul: Sen. moody:. Thank you. Congratulations on your nomination. Congratulations to your family. I can't think of a better person at this moment in time to lead such an important agency.
▶ 2:14:31Chair Paul: Working with our local law enforcement to make sure we were triaging our resources and going after really bad people that wanted to harm our community in a way to make our state safer. A part of doing that is we supported them. We made sure they had resources, they had the support behind them. They knew we had their backs.
▶ 2:14:55Chair Paul: I am proud that florida was one of -- was the first state to have every single county sign-up to work with the federal government because we were dealing with an unprecedented situation following the last administration we had people working with radicals in that administration to destroy the border, rolled out a welcome mat to everyone.
▶ 2:15:16Chair Paul: And has left our nation reeling from an unprecedented surge of people we don't know who are here, many of which before they even got here had committed crimes and have committed crimes since. The way to recover and shore up our community's is to work with and partnership local law enforcement who have an expertise in their communities.
▶ 2:15:44Chair Paul: And it is disheartening to me not just as our former attorney general or former prosecutor but as the wife of a law enforcement officer and some that worked very closely with them, it wrecks me to hear them refer to law enforcement in general -- especially some of the men and women that serve currently in the department of homeland security as breaking into people's homes and shooting americans and -- I think we can
▶ 2:16:15Chair Paul: All acknowledge that we want law enforcement to meet professional standards, to act with the public's safety in mind, to comply with the law. We do not have to disparage an entire profession of men and women who put their lives on the line for you and for everyone in this room.
▶ 2:16:42Chair Paul: Instead they're going to dedicate their professional careers to stand on that line and put their safety behind yours. When president trump in office, so many of these states on the democratic side said, I will never work with that man to come in and correct and rid the communities of people that are going to do it harm. We won't. In minnesota, the first thing they said, I will never help that person. I will lift a finger.
▶ 2:17:08Chair Paul: So in florida where you have 67 out of 67 counties signing up, tell me what I can do to help you. Does it surprise anyone? No. There state leader said we will not help you. We will not go after the most dangerous communities. Have at it. See how it goes. We won't lift a finger.
▶ 2:17:33Chair Paul: And when the administration says we are dealing with an unprecedented situation 11 million to 29 people that has never happened in history of our country? How do we do this? We need to make sure we are focusing on triaging and getting people out that we know they do harm to our communities. They're like, what are you talking about? You can have quotas. They won't talk about the quotas with a said border patrol -- more and more and more in. However you need to do it, don't tell us how we can stop this influx or the surge, tell us how we can push more in.
▶ 2:18:04Chair Paul: They won't talk about that. They want to tell you about focusing on children that are here that are now here. Yes, you need to do that. As somebody who has pushed to protecting children and fought against trafficking with law enforcement's help, yes, need to do that. I left I said, let's talk about the tens of thousands of children the federal government helped traffic under the biden administration. That we lost. And when they were made aware of it, they ignored it.
▶ 2:18:32Chair Paul: You will now have to take over an agency that is charged with cleaning up a disaster. A danger. The biden administration did that. I cannot think of a better person, someone who acts passionately and fiercely fights for the people he loves. And someone who loves this country and thinks of other people for himself. Desperate for himself.
▶ 2:19:02Chair Paul: I'm telling you in congress, there are all kinds of personality types. This man came up to me time and time again as the newest united states senator and I said, what can I do to help you? How can we help make this place work? How can we get this done? And I cannot -- I look over the course of your life, you left school your father got sick to go help your family business. That is the kind of person you are. The kind of person that stands up for every person in this office.
▶ 2:19:30Chair Paul: That is the kind of person -- passionate, fierce, a fighter, loyal. That is who I want protecting this country at the head of the department of homeland security. You said in your testimony, I will fight for your family just as I fight for mine.
▶ 2:19:49Chair Paul: Tell me about that personality trait and how you think that will help the department of homeland security in this unprecedented time where the last administration come the last president of the united states abandoned his role to secure this country. Tell me how you bring the personality and your character traits to this role.
▶ 2:20:09Sen. Mullin: It is the way I was raised. -- Sen. mullin: it is how I was raised, the way my mom, dad was raised. I have lived the american dream. A kid from west oklahoma with a speech impediment can be here? That happens only in america and we have the same type of dreams.
▶ 2:20:38Sen. Mullin: Maybe your parents served in public office or not read mine did not. The here, my goodness, that is why people want to come to our country because they want the american dream and I want everybody to have the same opportunity I have but we have to secure the homeland, make sure they feel safe stepping out and being in the public eye. We have to make sure people can have peace of mind and trust our government. Right now there is not much trust in our government.
▶ 2:21:09Sen. Mullin: We have a chance to work on that. I meant it when I said I hope in six months we are not -- I can't guarantee it, but I hope I'm not on the news every six months or six months from now every day. I hope dhs will be laser focused on doing their job but it is controversial about taking care of the homeland. I hope people have confidence in our agency again and I will work every day for it.
▶ 2:21:33Sen. Moody: And you will bring the same passion and zeal and protective instinct to protect every family and community working with local law enforcement as they know how to approach in a safe manner their communities?
▶ 2:21:47Sen. Mullin: Nobody will take care of the backyard better than the individual. >> thank you, chairman. Hello, neighbor. Good to see you. Mission of homeland security investigations?
▶ 2:22:07Sen. Mullin: From the ig or us? >> the homeland security department, there is hsi. What is their primary mission? It is not a trick question?
▶ 2:22:18Sen. Mullin: I understand that. Every agency, sir, we have specific missions we are targeted to look at our aspect of protecting the homeland in different -- and different directions have different paths and different agencies, the reason there are 22, we are on the same boat working toward a common goal to protect the homeland, bring peace of mind and secure the confidence of the
▶ 2:22:48Sen. Mullin: American people. >> hsi, being from arizona, we are familiar. Hsi is important because they specialize in dealing with human trafficking, human smuggling, counterfeit.
▶ 2:23:06Sen. Mullin: I have a lot of friends who bece are confirmed reports the secretary of homeland security has ordered hsi agents, pulled them off very important missions to go to arizona and investigate the 2020 election results, that is a very big concern of mine because these agents should be doing the work they are doing.
▶ 2:23:30Sen. Mullin: A lot of them are field ice agents instead of long-term investigations but now they are not even doing I.c.e. Enforcement they are looking into conspiracy theories so from my experience in seeing you both in the house and senate do you believe joe biden won arizona in the 2020 election?
▶ 2:23:56Sen. Mullin: I ask because you're potentially deploying hsi agents to arizona to check a result using our taxpayer result of follow up on a conspiracy theory?
▶ 2:24:04Sen. Mullin: I'm not familiar with what the former secretary did nor am I here to debate what happened in 2020. I do know there is an opportunity to look at 2020 and make sure anything that went wrong we can fix moving forward because we wanted to make sure in the next election, be it midterms or 2028, the american people trust our election system. Trust is vitally important.
▶ 2:24:32Sen. Mullin: I want to always look at past mistakes and past successes and I have addressed this multiple times and I know everyone is busy and you did not get to hear me earlier but senator, I think we can always do better and I want to do that. We have worked on immigration issues before because we both know we can do it better. >> you're talking perspective, I'm talking about going back.
▶ 2:25:00Sen. Mullin: The fact we are using homeland security funds, investigators that should be using their time and value to check into something that by the way had multiple independent audits, even run by the senate republicans and state house of representatives that passed accuracy counts, 14 court cases confirmed biden won my state.
▶ 2:25:22Sen. Mullin: So when I have personal friends that are hsi agents telling me they are being diverted from their duties instead of investigating child sex traffickers and abusers -- I don't disagree we have not been doing the best at, and much of that was under the biden administration, did not do that sufficiently.
▶ 2:25:43Sen. Mullin: But now instead of it not being done we have the opposite where some of the best trained people are being ordered by somebody within the chain of command to investigate this false conspiracy theory.
▶ 2:25:58Sen. Mullin: For me a concern of mine -- I know you personally and we have gotten to work together, upstanding guy, I recheck the idea that you are not qualified but when it comes to something as existential as this, are you in charge of a department that will say hsi should not be used for this? No one in the department of homeland security should be used to investigate an election conspiracy.
▶ 2:26:28Sen. Mullin: What I want to communicate, I urge you to end the investigation. There is no reason why we have to go back to 2020. No reason why we should be using highly trained affectional's that should be going after horrible people to be investigating conspiracy theories that have been litigated multiple times and put them back where they were.
▶ 2:26:51Sen. Mullin: My other concern, something I saw with the previous secretary and seen in my time in the marines, the chain of command is very important. I don't believe there was a real chain of command that was in the secretary of homeland security. I think stephen miller personally was calling the shots and you can see the results, men and women in I.c.e.
▶ 2:27:19Sen. Mullin: And cbp that felt they were unaccountable speaking to actual I.c.e. And cbp agents from arizona deployed to minnesota, they don't know who was in their chain of command, they did not have operational orders, a lot of them did not understand how to engage with the public at all.
▶ 2:27:43Sen. Mullin: When there is a point of who is responsible for making decisions they could not figure out if it was miller or secretary noem and her deputies. They could not figure out if there were quotas versus there were. Now we know there are quotas. This is the problem. I want to make sure if you are there you are in charge and not stephen miller.
▶ 2:28:02Sen. Mullin: Sir, the president nominated mead to be secretary of homeland and I will take full responsibility for that. Chain of command is important. I believe in empowering people to make decisions but I will still be talking to the president on a regular basis and any policy within my round of authority you give us, if the president wants us to look at it we will look at it because I
▶ 2:28:33Sen. Mullin: Serve at his discretion.
▶ 2:28:33Sen. Gallego: You probably would be only the second native american in the history of the country to be a cabinet member which I appreciate. I also do a lot of work with our native communities and 22 federally recognized tribes in arizona.
▶ 2:28:51Sen. Gallego: One concern I have, when it comes to building installations on the border there has been very little to no tribal consultation especially with some of our border tribes where we are building walls in areas that do not -- much like you have esl, I have problems with english once in a while too.
▶ 2:29:15Sen. Gallego: There is a border wall going through tribal land, sacred land, that is not crossed or used by human smugglers. It is important dhs speak to these communities.
▶ 2:29:30Sen. Gallego: They have programs working with dhs and local law enforcement to stop smuggling, the shadow program dhs supports peer the last administration and dhs did not talk to them whatsoever, I did not get the vague idea of consultation and now they are building into areas where there have been unfortunately burials of people from the tribe so I think it is important we reestablish tribal sovereignty and I hope because of your background you will respect
▶ 2:30:01Sen. Gallego: That.
▶ 2:30:01Sen. Mullin: I appreciate tribal sovereignty. We do have a job to secure the border but we will work with tribal nations because there are other ways to have a physical barrier. You can of technology there, too and I don't think anyone would complain. We have worked on travel issues a lot and I appreciate your passion and have good friends in arizona, tribes with good relationships.
▶ 2:30:29Sen. Gallego: [indiscernible] as long as they felt there was respect for the land? Mr. chairman?
▶ 2:30:36Chair Rand: We will come back around. Senator hawley.
▶ 2:30:42Sen. Hawley: Senator mullin welcome to the committee. I see you have supporters with you, chairman smith, good to see you. My friend sean o'brien is here. My money was always on o'brien. [laughter] I want that noted for the record read let me ask you this, and your own words could you tell us in capsule form what is it, what is the mission of dhs as you understand it?
▶ 2:31:12Sen. Mullin: Quite simply, to protect the homeland.
▶ 2:31:16Sen. Hawley: Very good. Let me ask you, 10 days ago there was a shooting at old dominion university that left one person dead, two people critically injured, the gunman had potential terrorist ties. Is this a good time for the department of homeland security to be shut down and unfunded?
▶ 2:31:33Sen. Mullin: It is the worst time. Keep in mind we came off a 43 day shut time -- shut down. This is the third of the year and it is devastating to the morale of the men and women we have cast to keep taking care of all of us regardless of a blue or red state, we have to look at it all the same and they have that mission mindset but don't have to pay to follow it up.
▶ 2:31:56Sen. Hawley: A few days before that individuals attempted to detonate bombs in new york city in a way that would cause mass civilian casualties in both of those individuals have potential terror connections. Is it a good time for dhs to be shut down?
▶ 2:32:11Sen. Mullin: Sir, I think with current conditions this is the worst time we could possibly do it.
▶ 2:32:16Sen. Hawley: A few days before that in austin, texas three people were fatally shot outside a bar when a gunman opened fire in the early hours sunday and he also had potential terrorist ties yet dhs is shut down. We could go a gunman loaded his truck with incendiary devices and rammed it into the sump -- into the temple israel synagogue outside detroit, michigan. 40 law officers had to get emergency medical attention.
▶ 2:32:45Sen. Hawley: It is a miracle no one was killed except for the gunman but 40 individuals had to get medical attention yet dhs is still shut down. Let me ask, law enforcement dangers, I have a poster behind me. In the last year alone we have seen an 8000% increase in death threats to law enforcement. A 1300% increase in assaults.
▶ 2:33:10Sen. Hawley: A 124% increase in vehicular attacks against cbp law enforcement. Is it a good time for dhs to be shut down?
▶ 2:33:22Sen. Mullin: Sir, it is a horrible time.
▶ 2:33:26Sen. Hawley: Let's talk about children, dangers to children. The national center for missing and exploited children estimates there are 20.5 million reports of suspected online and child exploitation. That includes almost 20 million reports of child pornography, 546,300 reports of online enticement of children for sexual acts and 27,000 reports of child sex trafficking.
▶ 2:33:56Sen. Hawley: Is it a good time for dhs to be shut down?
▶ 2:33:57Sen. Mullin: No, sir.
▶ 2:33:59Sen. Hawley: Let me ask if you have seen this poster behind me? Have you seen this before?
▶ 2:34:05Sen. Mullin: I don't believe so.
▶ 2:34:07Sen. Hawley: There is no reason you should have. I was introduced to this material by tim tebo, heisman trophy winner who spends time trying to help work with child victims of sex abuse. This represents every individual ip address in the U.S. in a one-month period that was sharing, just her beating, posting retreating child sex abuse material or child pornography of some form.
▶ 2:34:37Sen. Hawley: Want to know how many points?
▶ 2:34:39Sen. Mullin: It makes me sick.
▶ 2:34:41Sen. Hawley: 338,000 in just one month.
▶ 2:34:46Sen. Mullin: Can you see the blue dots?
▶ 2:34:48Sen. Hawley: You have better eyes than I do. The blue dots are the number of investigations. Look at the red dots, 338,000. Blue dots you can hardly see them. Because of the best of times the department of homeland security has only 10 hsi agents fully dedicated to doing this. That is all congress is giving you. Right now none of those are funded. Is this a good time for the department of homeland security to be shut down?
▶ 2:35:17Sen. Mullin: I think any parent can look at the. -- that. It makes you sick, especially with teenage daughters like myself. It is scary and we have to focus on this.
▶ 2:35:29Sen. Hawley: It is scary. I'm glad to hear you say that. The biden administration and your predecessor mallorkas lost track of 450,000 children who were trafficked across our border over four years. 450,000 children, the biggest child trafficking ring set up under the last administration in the history of this country. The president has been doing a tremendous job.
▶ 2:35:58Sen. Hawley: Last year they found 145,000 but that leaves 300,000 still missing and yet the department of homeland security is unfunded and shut down. I ask again does it seem like a good time for that?
▶ 2:36:10Sen. Mullin: No, sir.
▶ 2:36:12Sen. Hawley: Let's talk about challenges faced by people across the country who are facing natural disasters as we have in my home state of missouri. Major tornadoes ripped through missouri last spring, in the eastern part, st. Louis, southeast missouri. Thousands of people without power who lost their homes, many who were injured.
▶ 2:36:39Sen. Hawley: We had much disaster aid approved by fema but are still waiting for some of that aid to get us and now fema is shut down. So I have got thousands of people in missouri who are awaiting the aid the president has approved by the way, and fema has approved, it is in the process of coming to the state.
▶ 2:37:00Sen. Hawley: Probably hundreds of people not able to go back to their homes were applying for individual assistance that has not yet been processed by fema now they are told sorry there is nothing we can do because fema shut down. Does this seem like a good time for dhs and fema to be shut down?
▶ 2:37:16Sen. Mullin: No, sir.
▶ 2:37:19Sen. Hawley: In any airport in the country if you go and look you will find hours backups of four and five hours of tsa agents were 10% of tsa agents are not able to come to the job because they make on average $45,000 a year, they can afford their rents, can afford to buy groceries for kids, they have now missed two paychecks. It is endangering the security of our flyers, our airports. This is a terrible time for dhs to be shut down.
▶ 2:37:51Sen. Hawley: Whether we're talking children missing, the situation against law enforcement officers, dangers to the homeland, we are involved in a major conflict overseas. This nations homeland needs to be secured and yet my friends across the aisle have shut down the department homeland, have defunded every agency we just talked about and I want to ask them how long is it going to take? How long are these children going to have to wait? How many more have to go missing?
▶ 2:38:19Sen. Hawley: How many tsa agents can afford to put food on the table for their children? How long will the people of st. Louis in southeast missouri wait to get back to their homes before we can finally have a vote to reopen the department of homeland security? I welcome your nomination, you will be a terrific leader of homeland security. But it is time for this congress to do its job and fund dhs and protect the homeland of the united states of america. Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:38:45Chair Rand: Thanks, everybody. We are going to do another round of questions. Anyone that wants to ask a question, but I don't want to give everybody seven more minutes. We will keep it to pressing questions. Start on the republican side. Anyone with a pressing question they did not get to ask? >> I will yield back.
▶ 2:39:06Chair Rand: Anybody else? Senator ernst.
▶ 2:39:12Sen. Ernst: Again senator mullin, I appreciate you being here and want to ask questions, I want to follow up with so many have pointed out the various departments that exist and are not being funded under dhs so we have really, really significant anniversary coming up this year, most people will think it is our nation's 250th, which is
▶ 2:39:43Sen. Ernst: Extraordinary but the other significant anniversary that has impacted so many of us especially those of us who served in uniform, significant anniversary, the 25th year of september 11, 2001. Right now, we are currently in our 32nd day of the department of homeland security being shut down.
▶ 2:40:13Sen. Ernst: We have men and women serving in tsa, in fema, in the coast guard, secret service, in the cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, all of them under dhs, not being funded. Now I just heard in the first round of questions one of my colleagues on the left say, this has nothing to do with I.c.e. They are funded.
▶ 2:40:44Sen. Ernst: If it has nothing to do with I.c.e., why are we not funding these agencies that protect americans? Especially as we are coming up on the 20 for the anniversary of september 11 this fall? It is a significant anniversary. I hope never to repeat it.
▶ 2:41:10Sen. Ernst: But the fact of the matter is, there is a greater possibility of september 11th happening all over again because we are not properly funding the men and women that protect our homeland. So, I don't want to hear folks say it has nothing to do with I.c.e. Because I do believe when we get into the politics of this, it is about I.c.e. It is about I.c.e.
▶ 2:41:40Sen. Ernst: So I would love for my friends on the left to acknowledge it is about I.c.e., but acknowledge that protecting our homeland is much more important than the politics of this. >> can we?
▶ 2:41:57Sen. Ernst: Yes, question. Senator mullin, do you think it is time to set aside the partisan politics and partisan games and fund dhs as a whole, so that the department can be fully functioning to protect americans, especially as we are approaching this fall the 25th anniversary on one of the greatest attacks that we have ever seen on our homeland?
▶ 2:42:24Sen. Mullin: Yes, senator. I look at this as political theater we are playing games with, risking people's lives and disturbing people's homes. 260,000 employees in dhs still on the job, still working, still keeping us safe, without pay. I don't know how in good conscience you could sit there and think that is ok.
▶ 2:42:53Sen. Ernst: It is not ok and I look forward to your leadership at department of homeland security. Thank you, senator mullin. I yield back.
▶ 2:43:01Chair Rand: Senator peters.
▶ 2:43:05Sen. Peters: A couple questions for you. I want to clarify what we are hearing about funding for homeland security. The political theater has been on the republican side because there is no debate within any of my democratic colleagues that we need to fully fund fema, that we need to fully fund the coast guard, we need to fully fund cis a, all of those other areas, the
▶ 2:43:35Sen. Peters: Tsa folks should be fully funded. But unfortunately my republican colleagues who control the floor, you are in the majority, you determine which bills go on the floor and which ones are up for a vote. The way we can do that so we don't have a floor vote is we can go and move by unanimous consent. Move a bill and say, is there anybody that objects to this bill? And if they don't object, it immediately is passed. That is the procedure.
▶ 2:44:04Sen. Peters: Folks at home watching this, we have bills that will immediately pass and can pass today. We have put on the floor bills to fully fund tsa. And my republican colleagues have objected. I heard all the support for tsa today, so I hope you tell your colleagues, don't object to the tsa funding bill. Please don't do that. We can pass it today. God, that would be great. But we heard a lot of theater. All this stuff.
▶ 2:44:36Sen. Peters: Fema, pass it today. Coast guard, pass it today. Cisa, cybersecurity, pass it today. As the nominee for homeland security I would hope you would tell your colleagues, boy, this is really important, don't object to the bill that allows us to pay for this. Now, granted, the cdp and I.c.e.
▶ 2:45:01Sen. Peters: Are not in there because we are negotiating about making sure there are guardrails in place so federal agents have to abide by the same rules as local police. I go home and I say that everybody says really, they don't have to do that now? No, but republicans will hold tsa hostage, they will hold coast guard hostage, fema, cisa, all hostage because they do not want to give any ground on making sure we have common sense guidelines. We have a solution for that.
▶ 2:45:32Sen. Peters: Pass the bills for all these other agencies, it can happen today. We have tried for the last two weeks and my republican colleagues object. Don't object anymore and then let's focus on trying to come together, and I appreciate your comments about how we have come together. Let's come together and figure out how to put common sense guidelines in place for federal agents that are operating in our communities. You have expressed interest in doing that today and I take you at your word for that. So let's do that.
▶ 2:46:00Sen. Peters: But let's not make tsa a hostage in this whole thing. Let's pass the bills, we can do it. I heard hsi funding from one of my colleagues. Hsi is funded because though cbp and I.c.e. Are fully funded because of the big bill that passed last year. That funding is not in jeopardy. What is in jeopardy we can fix today. Those things not being funded we could fix today. Every single democrat is for it.
▶ 2:46:31Sen. Peters: It only takes one republican to object and that keeps happening. Talk to the one republican and stay -- say stop objecting to this. Hsi is getting money now because of the big bill but what is the problem with hsi, and I agree with my colleague with child exploitation, top of the list when it comes to making sure we're doing is much as we can to stop the, but unfortunately this administration has transferred those hsi people to immigration enforcement.
▶ 2:47:02Sen. Peters: They are not even doing what they were supposed to be doing. So I would hope if you are confirmed you would bring those folks back to their role my colleague says is so important which I agree with. Why did the administration send them off to immigration work then? Apparently the administration doesn't think it as important as my colleague. I want to wrap up questions we had related to your bio. The biography is important.
▶ 2:47:30Sen. Peters: It is important we fully understand how you are presenting yourself and if there are ambiguities we want to work that out. On march 11 I sent you a letter asking for information about any activity related to any special assignment which you talked about here today that you have been involved in. There was no exception for official travel or any of that.
▶ 2:47:56Sen. Peters: You responded to the committee by saying my volunteering work included special assignments outside of dod. I offered support and mentorship from a christian perspective to both afghans that supported our efforts and other personnel that served in war zones. You said this was between 2006 and 2011.
▶ 2:48:19Sen. Peters: My letter did not exclude official travel and also gave you explicit instructions in that letter for providing classified information how we could do that in a way that protects that classified information. You did not provide that in today is the first time I'm hearing about your classified activities from 2015-16. Quite frankly, as we have had these conversations you have not been forthcoming with me or this committee.
▶ 2:48:48Sen. Peters: The story always seems to change. As you know, candor, honesty, transparency are absolutely critical. Particularly at this time to build trust as the secretary of homeland security. We have to clear this up. We feel strongly we have to understand exactly what this is, especially with public comments that raised questions. We have checked, the scif is available.
▶ 2:49:15Sen. Peters: You would -- we would love you to come to the scif to tell us what you're are talking about and would put our minds at peace. Would you be willing to go to the scif this afternoon and tell us the classified activities you're talking about?
▶ 2:49:29Sen. Mullin: I think this committee made it clear with the paperwork they gave me that I do not have to disclose my official travel. That was part of the documents. They went over it two or three times. I complied with exactly what the committee said and there is no area for mission work and mentorship a volunteer basis on my own time and it was specific over and over you do not have to claim official travel.
▶ 2:49:57Sen. Peters: We want to know what the suppose it classified work was. I have requested's about it. I asked the fbi yesterday. If someone appeared in any classified document, any document, would that be in this report? They said yes. I don't see anything for senator mullin, why is that? They said nothing showed up, we queried the department of state, department of defense, other intel folks.
▶ 2:50:25Sen. Peters: You are in no classified document according to the federal government yet you say you do all this classified work.
▶ 2:50:33Sen. Mullin: I did not say all, I was very clear with what I said. I get what you're trying to get to hear and that is fine but I complied with everything the document said. It was official travel, and it was a classified trip. >> let me chime in on this I agree this is the fastest hearing anyone has had. That is despite my qualms and problems with your nomination.
▶ 2:51:02Sen. Mullin: I'm willing to do that but when the fbi came to my office I asked them if you had done any kind of work for the cia, dod -- Sen. mullin: I haven't.
▶ 2:51:10Chair Rand: Let me continue. Any type of classified work. They said, the way it works you would have a separate folder if you had been involved in classified mission somewhere and we get to see the folder would we would not talk about it, we would look at it privately and know what you are referring to. It is confusing to us because there may have been some papers that said your official trips were excluded. I don't know which ones were but you mentioned today there are activities you have done.
▶ 2:51:39Chair Rand: I think it would be easy and I'm still willing to have the vote tomorrow, but could cancel it, but I'm willing to get the vote over and done with. I think that to make clear, it doesn't sound like it is a secret you are too concerned about divulging, if you would spend an hour and go to the scif for 30 minutes and just tell both the ranking member and the other, and it would be private, not revealed. It would get this over with and would not have a complaint.
▶ 2:52:06Sen. Mullin: I have no issue with that if you get cleared on it because my understanding was there were only four people and it was a special program inside the house. Just like I was not on intel at the time, not saying I was, but I have no issue without it all. It is very unique.
▶ 2:52:25Chair Rand: That would be on you. We are not going to try to figure out who the four people are. If you are doing something that important it ought to be reviewed and discussed.
▶ 2:52:38Sen. Mullin: Chairman, it is not on me, I don't have the authority to do that. This is why I said I was very clear that I never talked specific dates or locations on this. I have zero issue talking about it, but I don't have clearance to talk about that this afternoon. It is not on me to release --
▶ 2:53:08Chair Rand: This is a program congress assigned you to?
▶ 2:53:12Sen. Mullin: Yes, within my official duties.
▶ 2:53:16Chair Rand: Who assigned it to you?
▶ 2:53:18Sen. Mullin: Sir, that is not for me to talk about. It is classified. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be ugly, you know how classified situations work.
▶ 2:53:27Chair Rand: Which agency classified it?
▶ 2:53:29Sen. Mullin: It was not an agency. It was done here in the house.
▶ 2:53:35Chair Rand: The house classified?
▶ 2:53:37Sen. Mullin: I'm assuming. I was not on intel.
▶ 2:53:42Chair Rand: We are not clear how the house classifies things.
▶ 2:53:47Sen. Mullin: Every time we spoke about this we had to go to the scif and visit about it. There was a paper I had to sign before it even started. I may be wrong and there may be more than four but it was only me and three other people.
▶ 2:54:02Chair Rand: So secret we can't know about it, I would assume there is paperwork in the scif to show us this was so top-secret --
▶ 2:54:10Sen. Mullin: I have no problem, you're welcome to go to the house. It started in 2015, ended late 2016. I have nothing to hide on this. I would enjoy having a conversation with you because I don't want you to question my character on this. That is very simple for me but I can't make that authorization, you guys know that.
▶ 2:54:31Chair Rand: It is difficult for us to ask a department with no name and know we know to talk to about it. So I don't know how we would begin doing this. I'm willing to hold the vote tomorrow, but you brought this up that you were on a supersecret mission.
▶ 2:54:48Sen. Mullin: No, I did not say supersecret, I said it was classified.
▶ 2:54:52Chair Rand: Only four people know?
▶ 2:54:55Sen. Mullin: May be more people understood it but only three people plus me that wherever in the meeting. As far as I'm concerned only four people were in on this.
▶ 2:55:06Chair Rand: You were on the intel committee?
▶ 2:55:08Sen. Mullin: Not at the time, no sir. I was on the intel committee after that.
▶ 2:55:13Sen. Peters: What committee were you on at the time?
▶ 2:55:16Sen. Mullin: I have to think about 10 years ago. Energy and commerce.
▶ 2:55:22Sen. Peters: Energy and commerce top-secret effort?
▶ 2:55:27Sen. Mullin: Senator, what I'm getting upset about a little bit here, your tone you're saying that in a condescending way. I did what I was asked to do.
▶ 2:55:38Sen. Peters: I'm trying to figure out who we would talk to.
▶ 2:55:41Sen. Mullin: I told you exactly what happened here. I was not required to disclose this on any travel. Your documents were very clear. I don't know what else you want me to say. Go find out and when you state is good for me to talk I would be happy to talk to you about it. I can't talk specifics. If you want to talk in general, let's talk in the scif.
▶ 2:56:07Sen. Mullin: I'm ok with that but I can't get into the specifics or who made the decision to do it, but I can talk in general and I will be very glad to do that with you. Even sarah langford -- senator lankford who I know is on intel can visit with us about it. No issues with that as well. Perfectly clear and ok with it, but it is not for me to release this. If you want to do that we can leave here.
▶ 2:56:32Chair Rand: Did this mission involve exchange of fire?
▶ 2:56:36Sen. Mullin: It was not a mission. It was an official travel with specific fact-finding like any official travel, that they wanted clarification on. And so, like I said, would be happy to talk to you about it. >> it was in a conflict zone?
▶ 2:57:00Sen. Mullin: Again I'm not talking specific details or dates because this was a classified situation. Anything I have talked about in the past was not referencing any of this but I will not get into it now talking specific dates or details.
▶ 2:57:16Chair Rand: We would have no way of exploring this unless you were willing to cooperate.
▶ 2:57:21Sen. Mullin: I don't know what else you are wanting me to do. I can't give all the specifics.
▶ 2:57:27Chair Rand: There is no reason to think we are not qualified to look at classified information.
▶ 2:57:33Sen. Mullin: There are a lot of programs chairman you know are based on a need to know. Maybe you can talk to senator lankford about this. Senator lankford?
▶ 2:57:44Sen. Lankford: This feels like a mountain out of a mole hill. He has offered over and over again to say let's get into a classified setting. I just left the worldwide threats hearing where I had to run back and meeting with all the folks there, there were several questions I asked where they gave me a partial answer and said I will give you the rest of this answer and the scif . Ok, I get that.
▶ 2:58:13Sen. Lankford: Because there are some things that are sources, methods or actions we were keenly aware of. I don't know what else you could say at this point other than, let's get in the scif and talk about that.
▶ 2:58:24Chair Rand: Let's start with that initial meeting and see how it goes.
▶ 2:58:28Sen. Peters: He said he could not do that because he wasn't authorized.
▶ 2:58:32Sen. Mullin: No, I said I can give you all the details because it is not for me to release it that I can talk in general about it but not in this setting. >> all of us have been in classified settings.
▶ 2:58:45Chair Rand: Let's try to get it done this afternoon.
▶ 2:58:47Sen. Mullin: I'm available right after this. We can go straight there.
▶ 2:58:52Chair Rand: Let's try to get the hearing finished. No more speeches back and forth on all the I.c.e. Stuff if we can. You kind of just conclude that. Let's try to get off of funding I.c.e. And stuff and stick to the nomination for now. >> I appreciate that, Mr. chair. I do have to take a moment because during my first round of questions I discussed the current impasse we find ourselves in over I.c.e.
▶ 2:59:22Chair Rand: Reforms and dhs funding and I did not speak clearly so I do need to clarify my comments now. I.c.e. Already has significant funding right now for the president's budget bill from the president's budget bill last summer which provided the agency with several times more money than its annual budgeting gave I.c.e. Broad discretion about how to use that money. That means the partial shutdown we have right now has nothing to do with whether I.c.e.
▶ 2:59:49Chair Rand: Has the usual levels of funding it needs to operate, since the agency already has many times its annual budget. It is about instead the need for policy reforms to help ensure I.c.e. Operates using the same standards state and local law enforcement in new hampshire and around the country uphold every day.
▶ 3:00:14Chair Rand: Senator fetterman was right earlier when he pointed out this shutdown is impacting other parts of dhs that handles cybersecurity, transportation security and other critical functions. We need to resolve it right now. As senator peters just described, we have been pushing to do that in ways the minority can. We need to reach agreement on I.c.e.
▶ 3:00:35Chair Rand: Policy reforms or by funding the rest of the department while we continue to negotiate on those reforms, something I strongly support but unfortunately republicans have blocked. The reforms to I.c.e. Are critical. Dhs is supposed to be prioritizing the removal of dangerous and violent criminals. Instead we see dhs agents assault and even kill american citizens while wearing masks, seemingly without accountability . This is the question.
▶ 3:01:06Chair Rand: Senator, if a masked I.c.e. Or other dhs agent kills an american citizen, should local law enforcement be allowed to investigate and hold that agents accountable?
▶ 3:01:16Sen. Hassan: Unfortunately local law enforcement is not supposed to be investigating federal. That is what doj and fbi is for. We will communicate with local law enforcement, but that is not their job. Same thing in most minister polities if there is a fatality shooting there is another agency that oversees them. In this case it would be the fbi who is set up inside the doj to investigate those.
▶ 3:01:44Sen. Hassan: See you have answered no and your answer would make I.c.e. Unaccountable and that endangers not just the rule of law but the security of all americans. I wanted to get to one other question. During the past year dhs leadership cut cisa's expert workforce by nearly 1/3. Criminal syndicates and adversaries are accelerating cyber attacks against the U.S.
▶ 3:02:12Sen. Hassan: How do you plan to restore dhs' cyber security force and better secure our critical infrastructure from cyber attacks?
▶ 3:02:23Sen. Mullin: We have to recruit the best and brightest. I know the university of tulsa has a great program but we are recruiting individuals want to be there to deliver the mission, is vitally important so we will work to make sure that happens.
▶ 3:02:38Sen. Hassan: You agree we need to add people back into cisa and they need to be nonpartisan experts with experience and commitment to the safety and security of our country wherever that leads them?
▶ 3:02:49Sen. Mullin: No one in the homeland should be looking at this from the [indiscernible] perspective. If you want me to talk staffing numbers I don't know what the mission requires but we will be staffed adequately if we can find the right people to make sure we are mission capable.
▶ 3:03:06Sen. Hassan: Out of respect for your desire to move things along I will submit for the record a question on imaging at the border, supposed to be ready to do for every vehicle entering the U.S., especially to detect fentanyl and I would like your answer on that and a couple other questions. I will submit those for the record.
▶ 3:03:25Chair Rand: Without objection. Senator lankford?
▶ 3:03:28Sen. Lankford: We talked about trying to get information on time and such it with the transition from the biden administration to the trump administration, data fell behind, really behind. It was one of my complaints with mallorkas, sometimes two or three weeks late on data information, how many encounters and arrests at the border.
▶ 3:03:54Sen. Lankford: Last year it was not weeks later but months later getting data out. Dhs has a really good story to tell. A lot of good things are happening there, but my concern is, social media and examples are coming out to tell the story and dhs is not able to tell the story and we have asked dhs, give us more information, more data.
▶ 3:04:19Sen. Lankford: One thing I would love to know is, you have been one of us for a long time, you know the importance of oversight and what it means to get data to congress and american people. We can see the story as well. I'm not asking for a pledge. Just want to open that up on how to get more data and information.
▶ 3:04:40Sen. Mullin: I will have to stand up and make sure we are communicating and getting information we need. It will not be fixed overnight but it does frustrate me as a former member of the house and current member in the senate, that when we make a request it is not seen. There is a difference between making actual requests because you are wanting to get we solution, versus harassment.
▶ 3:05:04Sen. Lankford: Badgering people.
▶ 3:05:06Sen. Mullin: Both sides play the game and I'm not going to. I will work with any senator, any committee, to make sure we are getting the information you need to do your job. Just for harassment purposes, please, I ask you, if you want me to do my job and be transparent, don't play games with me either. If you have real concerns, everybody on this committee, and really for colleagues, have my personal cell phone.
▶ 3:05:36Sen. Mullin: That number I have no intentions of changing unless somebody leaks it.
▶ 3:05:39Sen. Lankford: Hopefully that would not occur. One other quick question. When mayorkas sat at that desk before, there was the label special interest aliens. Folks that come from known areas of terrorism but we did not have information on them specifically so the biden administration just let the men.
▶ 3:06:02Sen. Lankford: We know somebody in your family is x terrorism but that is not used to they just labeled them special interest aliens and released them into the country. We know of 70,000 of those individuals. The trump administration in the last year and a couple months has picked up 50,000 of those.
▶ 3:06:21Sen. Lankford: That is part of this enforcement, to identify folks I had been ringing the bell on over and over, why are we letting people in that could be a terrorist, we don't know, someone in their family is but we don't know if they are, so they were just released into the country and given that label. I was told we will keep watching them but when I went to fbi and asked directly, there is no way we can track 70,000 people.
▶ 3:06:48Sen. Lankford: So there is been a lot of good work to identify where those people went, who they are associating with here in the U.S., and removing them from the U.S. still about 20,000 left. Would love to get your promise to say we will continue to find folks that were allowed to come in the country that may be a terrorist and may not be, to identify those folks and make sure the american people are protected.
▶ 3:07:14Sen. Mullin: Absolutely.
▶ 3:07:15Sen. Lankford: Thank you.
▶ 3:07:16Chair Rand: Two people left to have not responded it a lot of debates about I.c.e. Funding. We can't control what you ask, senator blumenthal.
▶ 3:07:28Sen. Blumenthal: , senator mullin , just months before the war with iran began, the trump administration negotiated a back channel agreement, deal with the islamic republic, to deport iranian nationals including asylum-seekers, dissidents, public reports added. January 26, 2026.
▶ 3:08:02Sen. Blumenthal: The new york times reported it in a couple articles in september and december that flights around that time deported tens of those kind of iranian nationals back to iran as part of the secret agreement. I want to tell you about one husband and wife, christian converts from islam, sentenced to nine and 11 year sentences by the islamic republic.
▶ 3:08:33Sen. Blumenthal: They came to the U.S. seeking asylum and were detained by I.c.e. On arrival, the wife was deported, took refuge in turkey, the husband, I will call him Mr. h, is still here, but facing deportation, despite receiving scars from the beating he received by the government gang. I have both of their declarations and would like them to be entered into the record.
▶ 3:09:01Sen. Blumenthal: There are iranian-american organizations like of the iranian-american legal defense fund that have further information. I have no doubt you share my outrage about the treatment of this couple and other iranian nationals who were deported possibly to torture and death in iran. Will you agree with me and commit that we should stop deporting such people?
▶ 3:09:27Sen. Mullin: Sir, I don't know the specifics behind this. I think before I can talk about hypotheticals, I would need to know the reasons behind it. I don't want to deport anyone who is here legally. Most definitely not individuals who have done everything possible to be a contributor to society. In these cases I don't know, I'm not familiar with them.
▶ 3:09:59Sen. Mullin: I don't know if there is something else in the background.
▶ 3:10:01Sen. Blumenthal: I'm talking in general about tens of people, as many as 55 on one flight, 15 or so on another. Not just this couple, but in principle we should not be sending iranian dissident asylum-seekers back to iran, wouldn't you agree?
▶ 3:10:19Sen. Mullin: We do know our enemies want to infiltrate us and use our generosity against us. I don't know the specifics of these. I don't know their background or what the reasons were, but I will be happy to look into it.
▶ 3:10:33Sen. Blumenthal: Let me ask you about another topic. I'm glad you committed there will not be the kind of review secretary noem imposed on contracts above a certain amount, uniformly by your office.
▶ 3:10:48Sen. Blumenthal: But I would like your commitment you will help us investigate another abuse of authority, cory leven tao scape --lewandowsky was in charge of approving contracts, one was a $120 million contract related directly to kristi noem being fired.
▶ 3:11:14Sen. Blumenthal: They bypassed procurement roles to award that contract to a shell company created days before to benefit a republican consulting firm with close ties to secretary noem and Mr. lewandowski.
▶ 3:11:35Sen. Blumenthal: Would you commit to making documents and personnel available to congressional and other investigations, into those contracts awarded by secretary noem and Mr. lewandowski?
▶ 3:11:45Sen. Mullin: Senator come I have heard these same reports on a know that ig joseph, I don't know him personally, is opening investigations. We will cooperate with him.
▶ 3:12:00Sen. Blumenthal: And provide all the documents and records?
▶ 3:12:03Sen. Mullin: I will leave that to the inspector -- I will do everything required of me by law but the ig will be doing the investigation and we will let the ig decide what documents he is going to c1 >> secretary noem in -- obstructed the instructions by the ig in fact in at least 10
▶ 3:12:35Sen. Mullin: Investigations. They are the subject of the letter, are you committing to restoring the departments working relationship? >> I will do everything by law. He has a job to do. Every other agency underneath dhs. >> you will cooperate?
▶ 3:13:06Sen. Mullin: >> everything that is required to report. That is between you and the ig. >> I don't think I need to tell you the american people have been appalled and angered by what they have seen in the excessive use of force. We've had hearings.
▶ 3:13:34Sen. Mullin: We have seen her young from her car in minneapolis, dragged by her arms. Javier ramirez, the father of four from california detained for four days. We documented these abuses in a report that we issued.
▶ 3:13:54Sen. Mullin: Hearings that we conducted, one of them, she was on her way to donate clothing at a local church. An agent swat -- sideswiped her car. Three masked agents stormed out. They fired at her moving vehicle hitting her five times. The agent then bragged about it. He bragged about it in a text.
▶ 3:14:28Sen. Mullin: He said I had -- I won't detail it. I fired five rounds and she had seven holes, put that in your book. Shouldn't we be disgusted by an agent at an agent that fires at a U.S. citizen, no criminal record, she was charged. The charges were dismissed.
▶ 3:14:55Sen. Mullin: Wouldn't you agree with me that agent should not be carrying a firearm?
▶ 3:14:59Sen. Mullin: I'm not familiar with the investigation. I'm sure I will be briefed on this.
▶ 3:15:08Chair Paul: I know these are important issues. We have to move on. We will finish up and then make a statement for our meeting later.
▶ 3:15:18Sen. Kim: A couple of last things. A couple weeks ago we had a hearing here and I was engaged with the head of uscis, I raise the issue of spouses, military members, veterans that were going to get interviewed for a green card and were arrested upon their arrival. Is that the kind of behavior you think is acceptable?
▶ 3:15:41Sen. Mullin: Repeat that again.
▶ 3:15:46Sen. Kim: It was veterans, their spouses were going in for the purposes of a green card interview, they were detained and arrested on arrival.
▶ 3:15:57Sen. Mullin: I have heard different reports. If people are going through the process and trying to obtain it legally, we do have naturalization ceremonies. We will continue working with those individuals.
▶ 3:16:17Sen. Kim: It just in general here, I'm trying to get a sense for you of what you think is appropriate in terms of ice agents being able to operate. Do you think it's ok for them to operate?
▶ 3:16:30Sen. Mullin: I will always support my law enforcement. I don't know the circumstances. If it's a felony warrant that the person is out of the hospital than they will go pick up the felony warrant just like local law enforcement does the same thing. In general I'd think you could be more specific on what you are talking about.
▶ 3:16:56Sen. Mullin: If you are talking about every day law enforcement, I think there's a better approach.
▶ 3:17:03Sen. Kim: I hear a lot of this from my own community about concerns of these types of efforts in and around hospitals, schools, churches. These are things I hope we could engage on about polling sites. If we don't have clarity on what we are expected to see and it is causing an enormous amount of concern within our communities.
▶ 3:17:30Sen. Mullin: I don't understand what the concern about polling places is. If you are not a citizen, you shouldn't be voting. As I said before, if we are at a polling area it's because of a specific threat.
▶ 3:17:49Sen. Kim: It's not just about people who are undocumented. I am hearing from american citizens that are now feeling like they need to carry their passports around for fear of being stopped on the street. There is a chilling effect that is happening that is wider. I have to give my father-in-law specific instructions in case he was stopped upon reentry coming back into the united states. There is real concern out there. A couple of quick things.
▶ 3:18:19Sen. Kim: At the detention facility in new jersey, delaney hall, I was there right after a gentleman was died there. There was really no documentation there would be 32 deaths at facilities. The oversight offices, the civil liberties, they have been gutted.
▶ 3:18:52Sen. Kim: Do you ensure the proper oversight there internally within dhs. They ensure people are being kept at the dignified levels that they should?
▶ 3:19:03Sen. Mullin: Each facility falls underneath different standards. Everybody deserves to be treated with a dignified hand. They will follow those procedures that are set forth.
▶ 3:19:25Sen. Kim: I hope to work with you on that. Some of our efforts have been impeded because we have not been able to have visitation at some of these sites. I hope that is something you will support us being able to have. One last thing I wanted to raise, there was a number of employees that sent an open letter titled the katrina declaration.
▶ 3:19:53Sen. Kim: They come to disaster response and recovery. Your predecessor, a number of these female employees, can you commit that if confirmed you'll adhere to whistleblower laws and ensure these whistleblowers do not face retaliation for your protective disclosure?
▶ 3:20:12Sen. Mullin: There are already laws in place and I will work with the requirements as secretary.
▶ 3:20:21Sen. Kim: I hope you ensure these whistleblowers do not face unlawful retaliation for what they have done.
▶ 3:20:30Sen. Mullin: I will work within the law.
▶ 3:20:36Chair Paul: As I said previously we scheduled a vote from our committee. There are several members on both sides of the aisle, they have from 1:00 until 2:00. Several member -- members would like to walk over and do that. That makes it much more likely that we have a vote tomorrow.
▶ 3:20:55Sen. Mullin: I would refer to the -- prefer if you want to bring another democrat member --
▶ 3:21:04Chair Paul: All the members need to be able to hear directly. You will do any member of the committee and staff into it.
▶ 3:21:18Sen. Mullin: That is fine as long as it's in a classified setting.
▶ 3:21:23Chair Paul: That's fine. Thanks everybody for coming today. The nominee has filed responses to biographical and financial questionnaires. We have the financial segments.
▶ 3:21:47Chair Paul: Without objections, the exception of the nominees financials, due to the quick turnaround, the hearing will remain open until 4:00 p.m. Today. This hearing is adjourned.