▶ 0:16:28>> thank you all for being here. The committee meets today to receive testimony on thecommandd receive testimony on thecommands southern command. We are joined byguillot and genl we are joined byguillot and genk donovan from the U.S. southern command. I want to thank them for their decades of service. Thank you, gentle protecting the homeland is the first and most important duty of the federal government.
▶ 0:16:54Without a credible homeland defense, there can be no united states of america for our 250th anniversary. During the cold war, the soviet union represented the only true threat to the united states homeland. Today, the threat is more complicated. Both russia and china possess a range of nuclear, space and cyber capabilities that threaten the U.S. homeland.
▶ 0:17:20Iran and suny jihadi's remain intent on carrying out terrorist attacks. Tehran has conducted cyber attacks against our critical infrastructure and cartels are using innovative methods to traffic drugs and humans across our borders. All of these adversaries share a common goal to reduce our influence in the western hemisphere and to harm americans at home.
▶ 0:17:48To counter these threats, we have a coordinated homeland defense strategy that must weave together differences and partnerships with allies and partners in our region. We certainly appreciate our allies and partners. We are poised to make great progress on golden dome and similar efforts to protect the homeland from incoming drone and missile threats. And enthusiastically support these efforts.
▶ 0:18:16The golden dome will reduce the threat posed by ballistic and cruise missiles from china and north korea. I look forward to hearing general guillot -- how general guillot is working with the golden dome team. I would like to learn how his coordination will help counter the threat of small drones. Also, comes professionalism in support of the department for homeland security.
▶ 0:18:44This has helped reinforce our border and helped stop virtually all illegal immigration. A singular achievement. We know that homeland events does not stop at our border with mexico. More than 100,000 americans are killed annually in drug related deaths. These immense and tragic losses come at the hands of south american cartels.
▶ 0:19:11Cartels contribute to violence, undermine regional stability and are linked to human trafficking. I commence outcome for its execution which is helping to stop narco terrorists from bringing drugs to our shores. It is also deterring future traffickers from attempting the same.
▶ 0:19:34I hope general donovan can expand on the department's efforts to coordinate more closely with our central and south american partners to fight back against cartels. China, russia and iran all target the western hemisphere in their influence operations. Xi jinping seeks to control telecommunications systems, critical infrastructure such as the panama canal and major water ports such as the one in peru.
▶ 0:20:11Likewise, russia is selling arms, providing military advisers and expanding intelligence cooperation to south american nations. In exchange, it gets permission to deploy russian military aircraft. Together, china and russia partner with hostile regimes like cuba and nicaragua.
▶ 0:20:38They build influence and gain political leverage to target the united states close to home. We must resist these maligned influence campaigns in our neighborhood. I would like to hear general donovan's ideas about how we can do so, especially through increased coordination with the economic defense unit, intelligence community in the office of strategic capital. So, expect that question.
▶ 0:21:05I hope the trump -- I commend the trump administration for the decisive action it has taken to reassert U.S. interest near the homeland. Including the capture of venezuelan president nicolas maduro and his wife, cilia flores. I strongly support the aggressive counter drug strategy.
▶ 0:21:29This must emphasize border security, cripple the cartels and expand security, in order to eliminate safe havens for the illicit networks that plague our hemisphere. So, thank you gentlemen for being here. I now recognize my friend and colleague, the ranking member senator reed.
▶ 0:21:48Sen. Reed: Thank you very much for being here this morning. Please pass our connotations on to the men and women you lead. General guillot, you been at the center of several domestic operations over the past year.
▶ 0:22:15Sen. Reed: Thousands of troops have been deployed to washington, D.C., los angeles, chicago and portland over the objections of the respective governors and mayors. Multiple federal courts have ruled against these appointments and the supreme court itself has acted to limit the use of forces. The safety of our local communities is of the utmost importance.
▶ 0:22:40Sen. Reed: But the legal and constitutional fragment -- framework that covers or militaries must not be eroded. Our nation has clear laws to enforce the boundary between military and civilian law enforcement. And the boundary exists for reasons deeply rooted in our democratic traditions. General guillot, I would like to know what guardrails you have in place to ensure compliance with these laws and an update.
▶ 0:23:09Sen. Reed: I would appreciate -- I understand that these military systems will be used despite explicit objections from the faa, which warned that the technology poses a great risk of fatalities or permanent injuries to civilian aircraft and pilots.
▶ 0:23:37Sen. Reed: Shutting down the airspace over el paso raises questions about the legal authorities, the coordination process among federal agencies and the standards of the transfer and use of such weapons systems. On the subject of homeland missile defense and the proposed golden dome program, I would emphasize that this -- we recognize the urgency our adversaries give abilities great.
▶ 0:24:07Sen. Reed: General guillot, I would appreciate an assessment of the golden domes projected course beyond the 2028 timeframe and its technical realism with respect to space-based interceptors. I would like to know how it fits in the architecture of deterrence, including its potential effect on strategic stability.
▶ 0:24:30Sen. Reed: General donovan, the scope of military activity in the southern command has expanded dramatically over the past year. -- dramatically over the past year. -- represents an extraordinary expansion. In january, that buildup culminated in the raid to capture former venezuelan president nicolas maduro.
▶ 0:24:57Sen. Reed: The operation itself was a testament to the skill and courage of american service members and every member this committee -- every member of this committee joins in recognizing their incredible service. Military excellence does not resolve the strategic political questions that must follow. I would ask an update on the current status of our forces in the region. Their assigned missions going forward. And any contingency planning for political instability in venezuela.
▶ 0:25:24Sen. Reed: Additionally, today, operation southern sphere has resulted in 156 fatalities from 45 airstrikes on suspected narco trafficking votes. I believe this operation is strategically misguided and a dubious legality.
▶ 0:25:42Sen. Reed: General donovan, I would ask you explain the objective of continuing this operation, given maduro is no longer in power and provide any measured effects on illicit drug flows into the united states. I would like to understand what operations, if any, are being contemplated around cuba.
▶ 0:26:07Sen. Reed: Gentlemen, thank you again for your leadership and for the service of the men and women in your command and I look forward to your testimonies. >> general guillot, you are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:26:19Gen. Guillot: Thank you, chairman wicker and good morning to you, ranking member reed and the distinguished members of this community -- committee. As the strategic environment has grown more complex, norad and usnorthcom have responded by executing new missions and implementing innovative
▶ 0:26:49Gen. Guillot: Approaches to safeguard north america. Both commands campaign 24/7 to deter adversaries and defend against threats in all domains. Since march of 2025, norad intercepted long-range bombers up the coast of alaska and canada 19 times, scrambled fighters 82 times and committed fighters from airport patrols 156 times, protecting the president, washington, D.C. and national special security events.
▶ 0:27:21Gen. Guillot: The commands tracked russian and chinese submarines and service muscles in their approaches to north america and remain ready to defend against holistic and cruise missile attacks. Our demands remain undulant, capable and committed. To secure the U.S. southern border, usnorthcom established the task force southern border in march of 20.5.
▶ 0:27:46Gen. Guillot: Since then, j tsp -- that have helped reduce illegal border activities to historic lows. Those service are executing missions within their occupational specialties which has enhanced readiness and increase the enlistment rates.
▶ 0:28:10Gen. Guillot: Usnorthcom established joint interagency task force counter cartel, a whole of government enterprise dedicated to fusing intelligence used to help dismantle cartel networks. And to accelerate our integrated air and missile defense capabilities, usnorthcom activated joint task force gold to serve as the operational arm for the future later defense systems, provided by golden dome for america. Usnorthcom is the department synchronizer for activities in the continental U.S. and alaska.
▶ 0:28:39Gen. Guillot: Thanks to the counter small uis authorities provided by congress and policies updated by secretary hegseth, the service members along the border defeated 93 you a s -- uas. Assuring our ability to operate in the high north is a strategic necessity.
▶ 0:29:00Gen. Guillot: With the inclusion of greenland into the usnorthcom area of responsibility, -- ensuring we are ready to defend the high north any time and under all conditions. Domestically, U.S. northcom's mission to provide defense support of civil authorities remains a critical responsibility.
▶ 0:29:30Gen. Guillot: -- and woke up 2026, cohosted by canada, mexico and the united states. -- world cup 2020 six, cohosted by canada, mexico and the united states. Trusted relationships are a cornerstone of regional security and homeland defense. The men and women of usnorthcom and norad have embraced these new challenges and are unwavering in their mission.
▶ 0:29:59Gen. Guillot: The discipline, defense of our homelands and all domains from all avenues of approach, against all those who intend us harm. We appreciate the steadfast support of the committee and I look forward to answering your questions today. We have the watch.
▶ 0:30:13Chair Wicker: Thank you very much. General donovan.
▶ 0:30:17Gen. Donovan: Chairman wicker, ranking member reed and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss the posture of the nine states southern command. I would like to thank the members for their trust and confidence placed in meet to lead the organization in such a criminal goal -- critical moment. We appreciate your continued support. I am joined today by my good friend, general greg guillot.
▶ 0:30:48Gen. Donovan: We are dedicated to rebuilding U.S. leadership and presence in this critical part of the world. Let me begin by saying I have learned a lot in the past 42 days. About the dynamic region I am responsible for and the incredible organization I now leading. Last year was a pitiful -- pivotal moment in south comes history. -- southcom's history.
▶ 0:31:21Gen. Donovan: We rose to the challenge while remaining true dry legacy of collaboration. I want to thank the leaders of joint task force southern sphere. This is our war fighting headquarters who are leading our efforts against drug cartels and terrorist networks with incredible levels of professionalism and precision. Now, we are ready to evolve for the future.
▶ 0:31:47Gen. Donovan: The 2026 national defense strategy it lays out the threats we face in this hemisphere and cellcom's -- southcom's role in addressing it. I have four imperatives. First, southcom strengthens hemisphere and command and control by redesigning and building southcom headquarters for strategic level operations at range, speed and scale.
▶ 0:32:13Gen. Donovan: Second, southcom imposes total systemic friction on drug cartels and terrorist networks. This requires a hemisphere wide approach led by southcom and northcom to help our partners and reduce the threat they pose to our partners and nation. Third, southcom develops in fields cost-effective modernized forces, tailored for the missions in this hemisphere.
▶ 0:32:40Gen. Donovan: These forces fully maximize operational maneuvers, autonomous systems and human machine teaming to greatly increase the value, awareness and most important the datasharing for U.S. and partner forces. And finally, southcom denies adversary footholds and undue influence in this hemisphere.
▶ 0:33:02Gen. Donovan: That includes the ability to position forces or other capabilities that threaten our homeland to our regional partners and challenge our access to key terrain like the panama canal. These imperatives, the dynamic security environment we operate in, will require the right structures, authorities and forces to keep pace with mission needs. Southcom is moving out with speed and urgency and stands ready to work with congress to defend our homeland and a hemisphere. We think this committee for their unyielding support to U.S.
▶ 0:33:33Gen. Donovan: Southern command and look forward to our discussion this morning. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:33:36Chair Wicker: Thank you you, and shaman. Without objection, the entire statement of general guillot, the entire prepared statement of general guillot, consisting of 20 one pages, provided to us in advance, and the entire statement of general donovan, again provided to us in advance, consisting of 11 pages, will be added into the record at this point without objection.
▶ 0:34:09Chair Wicker: General donovan, tell us how the maduro effort, the removal of him and the installation of his vice president has affected our interests in the area.
▶ 0:34:25Gen. Donovan: Mr. chairman, soon after assuming command of southcom, I was directed to take a trip to venezuela and meet with the current leadership of the venezuelan government. I will pause for a second --
▶ 0:34:39Chair Wicker: Who did you meet?
▶ 0:34:42Gen. Donovan: We met delcy rodriguez and a number of her senior generals. I will highlight for one second the incredible work -- is doing with a small team of 10 representatives.
▶ 0:35:01Chair Wicker: Is that as high as we will get down there?
▶ 0:35:05Gen. Donovan: I hope I am investor one day. She was recognized as the official shar j official sh -- we have a chance to meet with the government and highlight our concerns that had developed over time since the maduro even. It's been 46 days since that event so it's a remarkable setting and we laid out what our concerns were. Since then, that -- those actions have all been acted on by their government.
▶ 0:35:34Chair Wicker: In a positive way that met with your approval?
▶ 0:35:39Gen. Donovan: Yes, Mr. chairman. In a classified setting, one specific action, aggressive action was taken.
▶ 0:35:51Chair Wicker: Tell us than about coordination with the economic defense unit, the intelligence committee and the office of strategic capital.
▶ 0:36:04Gen. Donovan: As we look at all the tools available to southcom, our strength remains our ability to partner with these allies and partners. If you look at america's counter cartel coalition that we have set up, that the secretary set up and that we believe southcom will take a key role in, we have more tools to bring to bear. You have the exercises, we have even the four military sales.
▶ 0:36:35Gen. Donovan: 18 key partners have signed up to be part of this.
▶ 0:36:39Chair Wicker: Partner nations?
▶ 0:36:41Gen. Donovan: Partner nations that signed the agreement to be part of the americas counter cartel coalition. The edu and osc give us additional capabilities we have not had in the past, specifically we can counter other maligned actors like china directly.
▶ 0:37:00Chair Wicker: Is oas being utilized?
▶ 0:37:07Gen. Donovan: In 43 days, I have not contacted the oas yet or been fully involved. That is something I need to do and I intend to pursue that to ensure we are fully aligned or they are in full support going forward.
▶ 0:37:23Chair Wicker: I think it is an opportunity that we ought to try and enlarge. I say that for the benefit of our colleagues. General guillot, how are you working with the golden dome team to improve our defenses? I promised to ask you about joint interagency task forces worldwide.
▶ 0:37:48Gen. Guillot: I am working closely with the general and his office. The day after he was confirmed, he flew to colorado springs, where we outline what I felt were the operational necessities for the golden dome and then he agreed at that time that one aligned with his approach and that he felt the architecture necessary.
▶ 0:38:15Gen. Guillot: We also worked with stephen whiting who was in colorado springs and he was in our meeting too. The three of us left fully aligned. Since then, as he has worked with the industry and developed this architecture, any time he finds something that either the technology is not there yet or maybe the cost is too high, he comes back to me and explains his adjustment and confirms that it still meets our operational needs.
▶ 0:38:41Gen. Guillot: I also gave him, a general officer working as a liaison in the office to ensure there is no separation between the operational to -- requirements and the architecture. In short, I think it is a very tight relationship and I am encouraged by it. I think we will be able to demonstrate the capabilities that have been advertised on or ahead of schedule. Sen. reed.
▶ 0:39:25Gen. Guillot: D: -- the filiation is with organizations that are still secret, have not been revealed to the public read those operations have been going on for over six months. As I indicated, there are 157 killed in action or killed personnel. When you came before the committee, you indicated that you would check each one of these operations.
▶ 0:39:54Gen. Guillot: Have you been able to do that and what conclusions have you reached?
▶ 0:40:01Gen. Donovan: Before assuming command, I took a number of steps and would like to highlight them if I could. The first one is I read all of the legal opinions tied to these operations. Next, I read every single executed order southcom has been given since well prior to southern sphere, to ensure that I could link those together. So when I stepped into command, I could carry out those specific strikes, if required and if they were part of the tactical solution. >> thank you, general.
▶ 0:40:34Gen. Donovan: What is the metrics of success in this operation? Are there metrics involved?
▶ 0:40:42Gen. Donovan: As I have looked at this over the last 43 days, I cannot stand before you and tell you there is a percentage drop in american deaths inside the united states or a number of a percentage of drugs reached in the united states. What we are building is an actual campaign against these cartels that will actually look at more systemically across the board from point of production to point of delivery.
▶ 0:41:13Gen. Donovan: Looking at it more holistically and what I plan on applying is friction on these networks. I believe the kinetic strikes are one small part of that. If you look at all the tools available, specifically the tools that will strengthen partners so they have a better economic future in these towns, villages and cities where the production takes place and cartels and the various actors like china can step in and influence, I believe that is the step and the measure of success
▶ 0:41:45Gen. Donovan: Where they can create security environments and we stop this at the source itself.
▶ 0:41:49Sen. Reed: Can you indicate the chain of command above you? Who is immediately above you and then all the way up to the top?
▶ 0:42:01Gen. Donovan: The secretary of the war and the president of the nine states.
▶ 0:42:05Sen. Reed: Do you have contact directly with the white house?
▶ 0:42:08Gen. Donovan: No.
▶ 0:42:09Sen. Reed: You get all your orders from the secretary of defense?
▶ 0:42:13Gen. Donovan: They are from the secretary of defense, translated from the joint staff.
▶ 0:42:19Sen. Reed: Thank you very much. General guillot, as I indicated in my opening statement, you have, at the orders of the president, deployed significant residents around the united states and the action has drawn criticism by many governors, mayors and also the courts.
▶ 0:42:41Sen. Reed: I am really concerned, looking beyond these deployments, the secretary of defense has set up a response force national guard quick reaction from the national guard which mobilized within 24 hours and can be sent anywhere to "quell civilian disturbances." all of that adds up to the obvious question and the concern that these forces could be used
▶ 0:43:11Sen. Reed: To interrupt the first amendment rights of americans, particularly their right to vote. As you know, federal law explicitly bans the deployment of armed federal troops or any troops to polling places.
▶ 0:43:28Sen. Reed: Specifically in 18 usc section 592, makes it a crime punishable by up to five years in prison to deployed troops or armed men, which would include I.c.e., to any location where voting is taking place unless such force be necessary to repel armed enemies of the united states. Armed enemies of the united states.
▶ 0:43:54Sen. Reed: Other than that, do you agree that it is illegal to deploy armed forces to polling places?
▶ 0:44:02Gen. Guillot: I am aware of the code and I recognize it is against the law and I would not follow an unlawful order. Thank you for noting the exception.
▶ 0:44:12Sen. Reed: Thank you very much, sir. With that, I will yield my six seconds.
▶ 0:44:19Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator fischer?
▶ 0:44:23Sen. Fischer: General guillot, I have appreciated the conversations about the increasing threats we face to our homeland over the years. You have been insistent that improving domain awareness is foundational to protecting the homeland. After all, we cannot shoot what we cannot see. How are you seeing our ability to detect and characterize threats earlier improve?
▶ 0:44:53Gen. Guillot: Senator, thank you for your support in those efforts. I am seeing immediate improvement. We can see a long range with more fidelity and also an approach where one phenomenon or note -- for one system is not responsible solely to detect. We have backup systems as well.
▶ 0:45:15Gen. Guillot: I also note, because of the partnership with the golden dome for america program office, many of the domain awareness systems that we need to improve norad and northcom protection serve the purpose of the golden dome so we are getting two or three for one with many of the systems that are either in development now or being implement it now or would be implement it in the near future.
▶ 0:45:39Sen. Fischer: I really appreciated your comments about working with general group line on golden dome and how you are getting together to make sure that we have what we need in order to protect his homeland and the collaboration there will hopefully hold down expenses as well, as you each bring forth ideas that are necessary. I really appreciate your comments there.
▶ 0:46:07Sen. Fischer: As we are looking to improve on the threats, do you have anything specific you could say on the setting that needs to be improved?
▶ 0:46:19Gen. Guillot: I would like to see continued improvement in the persistence of our ability to detect and track adversaries from seabed all the way to space. As I mentioned, it is a layered approach and I have confidence in all the layers. As the adversary grows capability, we need to see them further away from our continent then we have in the past.
▶ 0:46:43Gen. Guillot: I would like to see incremental improvement reaching out further from our shores to ensure that we stay ahead of the adversaries as they improve their capabilities.
▶ 0:46:51Sen. Fischer: Thank you. Turning to your role as the norad commander, how would the U.S. and canadian militaries -- how are the U.S. and canadian militaries deepening their partnership in the face of greater threats?
▶ 0:47:07Gen. Guillot: We are working very closely together as we have since 1958 when norad was established with canadians and U.S. members side-by-side and headquarters out in the field. Most recently, you may have seen that a combined force of norad fighters, and tankers, both U.S.
▶ 0:47:30Gen. Guillot: And canadian, intercepted russian aircraft north of alaska that went into the canadian and back across. That is fully integrated on the same battle links and mission planning system, using the same refueling tankers, operated sometimes from the same base. It's an incredibly tight -- it is incredibly tight.
▶ 0:47:59Gen. Guillot: And it is an inseparable relationship we have.
▶ 0:48:04Sen. Fischer: It sounds like you are evolving and adjusting the relationship to meet new threats that are out there.
▶ 0:48:09Gen. Guillot: Yes ma'am, we absolutely are. Both of our countries are pursuing norad monetization capabilities so we can make sure that we stay ahead.
▶ 0:48:19Sen. Fischer: Thank you. General donovan, what actions is southcom taking to increase and leverage partnerships to advance our country's interest in the region?
▶ 0:48:35Gen. Donovan: We have had an opportunity to meet with almost every leader. And then this america's counter cartel coalition. There ask is the same thing. It is key between air demand awareness as we believe some of these drug trafficking close our moving.
▶ 0:49:05Gen. Donovan: -- not only for the cartel efforts but the prc, the chinese influence. The main awareness is the thing they ask for more than anything else.
▶ 0:49:13Sen. Fischer: To what extent can lessons from the joint security cooperation group panama, how can those be applied to southcom's relationships to other countries?
▶ 0:49:27Gen. Donovan: I think that is an exemplar that we are starting to realize how that can affect other places in south america including the caribbean and central america.
▶ 0:49:37Sen. Fischer: Thank you.
▶ 0:49:39Chair Wicker: Senator shaheen.
▶ 0:49:42Sen. Shaheen: General donovan, throughout the past fall, this committee was briefed several times on ongoing operations in the caribbean as we heard from senator reed. When we asked point blank about plans to remove nicolas maduro from power in venezuela, we were told at the cabinet level and from senior military leaders, there were no plans to conduct a regime change.
▶ 0:50:12Sen. Shaheen: And yet, come to find out, the military was in the process of conducting resource -- rehearsals to remove nicolas maduro from power. General donovan, now we are hearing president trump make several comments about his intent to remove from power of the current president of cuba to own cuba.
▶ 0:50:35Sen. Shaheen: And while both cuba and venezuela are repressive regimes and I don't have any sympathy for their leadership, they pose no immediate threat to the united states. So, I'm going to ask you very directly, are we currently conducting any military rehearsals that involve seizing, occupying or otherwise asserting control over cuba?
▶ 0:50:56Gen. Donovan: U.S. southern command is not.
▶ 0:51:03Sen. Shaheen: Pardon? Is any other command that you know of?
▶ 0:51:10Gen. Donovan: No.
▶ 0:51:11Sen. Shaheen: Thank you. General guillot, U.S. tracking and infrastructure falls under your command as you pointed out in your testimony. I noticed in your statement for the record that in addition to the U.S.-canada relationship through norad, you benefited from operation with the danish armed forces and with the inclusion of greenland in your a rr -- aor.
▶ 0:51:44Sen. Shaheen: Has the united states made a request from denmark or greenland that has not been accommodated by the danish and greenland authorities?
▶ 0:51:50Gen. Donovan: No, we have not. I enjoy a strong relationship with the danish.
▶ 0:52:01Gen. Guillot: Every opportunity has been followed.
▶ 0:52:04Sen. Shaheen: In your exchange with senator fischer, you talked about the efforts underway in canada with norad. Can you speak in greater detail to the benefit that canada provides us as a partner in norad?
▶ 0:52:17Gen. Guillot: Senator, as I mentioned, they are fully integrated in all of our operations for norad. The benefits that I see underway and coming in the future of our long-range radar systems that can help detect threats at range. And an interest in joining us with satellite detection capabilities which would give us persistence.
▶ 0:52:42Gen. Guillot: And then the purchase of advanced aircraft which would give us the upper pill -- opportunity to defeat threats further away from our continent.
▶ 0:52:54Sen. Shaheen: Is it safe to say we are stronger because of our partnership with canada?
▶ 0:53:00Gen. Donovan: Yes.
▶ 0:53:01Sen. Shaheen: Drone incursions pose a real threat to our homeland. Especially over critical U.S. military infrastructure. The ukrainian armed forces have really made progress on both defensive and counter drone technology and are assisting with air defense in the middle east. Can you talk about the lessons that have been learned from the ukrainian military as you think about developing counter drone technology?
▶ 0:53:30Gen. Guillot: Yes, senator. And we are very fortunate as the chairman mentioned to have a newly established organization that looks at the procurement and development of counter uas systems co. Systems c -- county uas systems, which can be passed to systems like ours.
▶ 0:54:00Gen. Guillot: Because of the longer-range and indiscriminate nature with which the atmosphere has deployed the systems. They have helped eliminate that you can't have one or two defeat mechanisms. They have to be across multiple mediums. From everything from denying satellite viewings to person-to-person -- to first person view. We would not have known that without the benefit of the ukraine.
▶ 0:54:29Sen. Shaheen: Senator blumenthal and I were recently in odessa in ukraine. One of the people we met along the way was an official from columbia, who is working with ukrainian armed forces to combat drug cartels in latin america and in columbia specifically.
▶ 0:54:53Sen. Shaheen: Are you looking at some of those efforts to address what you are trying to do and southcom to address the narcotics straight?
▶ 0:55:06Gen. Donovan: They are an effective organization and we have strong military ties. We continue to learn from there. Their successes that they are having against the cartels.
▶ 0:55:18Sen. Shaheen: And what they are learning's from the ukrainians as well, correct?
▶ 0:55:25Gen. Donovan: Absolutely.
▶ 0:55:26Chair Wicker: Senator cotton.
▶ 0:55:29Sen. Cotton: General donovan, I want to return to the question of cure. I understand you may not be actively rehearsing an invasion of cuba. But surely we have plans to do with any contingency related to cuba. There are majors and colonels making plans for every possible contingency in the world. It would be a mass unemployment even if we did not have plans for every potential crisis around the world.
▶ 0:55:58Sen. Cotton: So, I won't ask specifically about one potential crisis given the state of play in cuba, which has never been able to stand on its own two feet. It relied for 30 years on support from soviet russia. And then it was wobbly in the 1990's until shabbos and venezuela -- chavez and venezuela supported it for the last 30 years.
▶ 0:56:22Sen. Cotton: Are we prepared for any kind of humanitarian crisis in cuba with the possible flow of refugees or other civil disorder that may threaten our interests, especially if the decrepit, corrupt castro regime finally falls or fleas?
▶ 0:56:39Gen. Donovan: Senator, yes we are. Southcom, our core task, we support dhs in mass migration. We would set up a camp in guantánamo bay to deal with the migrants or any overflow a situation in cuba. Otherwise, the court protect the embassy which we are in contact with every single day.
▶ 0:57:06Gen. Donovan: We have the cda -- had the cda in my office a week ago and he talked about what he thought would happen in cuba. We are in line with the diplomat's there. That is my response ability. In cuba, the responsibility I have is protecting the base. All that together, if asked to support a humanitarian event, that is where we do very well. We are strong on logistics and we can move support and supplies if asked to do so.
▶ 0:57:39Gen. Donovan: >> you have been on the job for a little over a month. What has been your assessment on the state of our infrastructure, in latin america and especially in the caribbean? Does it need additional support given the fact that south carolina has been much more active than -- southcom has been more active than in the past?
▶ 0:58:02Gen. Donovan: I've learned a lot about the budget in southcom. We have a great relationship with the hondurans. All in different degrees, they need a refresh. I would like to pause for a minute, that's one of the more key locations we have. I won't pull any punches, it's in rough shape because of hurricane damage, we are down to one working pier.
▶ 0:58:30Gen. Donovan: That is a pivotal point for any operations in the caribbean. Right now, we are working for opportunities in the funding and the resources to figure out how to go to those key locations. They become not just logistics hubs but maneuver hubs as we look at going on a consistent counter cartel campaign, using those hubs for partnership.
▶ 0:58:58Gen. Donovan: We had exports for the good things we are doing in panama. >> I trust your budget request will reflect the needs for those infrastructure upgrades, especially at guantanamo bay.
▶ 0:59:09Gen. Donovan: Yes, sir. -- yes, senator. We are working with the united states army on looking at that budget structure and how do we actually have a budget built over time with the right amount of o anm to sustain that. >> thank you.
▶ 0:59:34Gen. Donovan: I think your appointment reflects in part that southern command is a combatant command, not a training command and certainly not a diplomatic command. And I think the budget needs to reflect that as well.
▶ 0:59:45Sen. Cotton: General guillot, as the commander of norad, one of your missions is the defense of american and canadian air space. That depends on a robust flatter force. It is the smallest it has ever been. The air force struggles with low readiness rates for his fighters. Do you believe norad would expand -- would benefit from an expanded fighter force?
▶ 1:00:12Gen. Guillot: Yes, senator, we would. I would like to see a continued moderation of fourth generation fighter fleet. -- those capabilities are better used overseas where they are stealth, air to ground weapons and penetration capability are needed. So, revamped and modernized fortune, to include f-15 e x and select locations would meet all of our requirements.
▶ 1:00:42Sen. Cotton: I believe we need more fourth-generation fighters as well. They can be useful overseas once the fifth generation fighters and bombers plow the road and knocked down the air defenses we are seeing right now in iran. Thank you.
▶ 1:00:56Chair Wicker: How many americans are in gitmo right now?
▶ 1:01:01Gen. Donovan: I will look at my cheat sheet.
▶ 1:01:04Chair Wicker: I do that often.
▶ 1:01:06Gen. Donovan: Let me get back to you on it.
▶ 1:01:09Chair Wicker: Ok, that's fine.
▶ 1:01:11Gen. Donovan: I don't have the basic structure right now.
▶ 1:01:16Chair Wicker: Are the russians resupplying cuba now? And how much of a game changer is that or would that be?
▶ 1:01:26Gen. Donovan: Chairman, we have not seen an active resupply of russians coming to the aid of cuba.
▶ 1:01:33Chair Wicker: I saw a news article about that.
▶ 1:01:36Gen. Donovan: We are tracking one destroyer with an accompanying euler -- euler. I don't think it will deliver anything. That's the only event I am tracking.
▶ 1:01:58Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you for your service and to your families. General donovan, to your wife and I understand your children are marines as well. Thank them for their service. There have been reports of a request by the pentagon for $200 million supplemental.
▶ 1:02:20Sen. Blumenthal: It seems that a supplemental to support a war that the president has never asked congress to approve, as constitutionally required without a clear statement of objectives or strategy, disclosure of accurate information about the cost of the war or public hearings with relevant officials would make it a nonstarter at this point.
▶ 1:02:47Sen. Blumenthal: And it's added to a one point $5 trillion department of defense fy 27 -- $1.5 trillion department of defense fy 27. It could be misinterpreted as congressional approval for the war. Are you aware of the requests made by the department of defense, the department of war for a $200 billion supplement? Either of you?
▶ 1:03:13Gen. Donovan: I read it in the news this morning.
▶ 1:03:15Gen. Guillot: I am in the same position as general donovan.
▶ 1:03:20Sen. Blumenthal: You have been asked, general donovan, about plans and rehearsals for cuba. Are you aware of any plans to aid nongovernmental groups, exiled groups or any other groups in potentially action within cuba to overthrow this government or to take over there is an overthrow?
▶ 1:03:49Gen. Donovan: No, senator.
▶ 1:03:51Sen. Blumenthal: Are you aware of any contingency plans to put american troops in cuba if there is unrest there that threatens americans who are there now?
▶ 1:04:04Gen. Donovan: Senator, that situation, if it develops, the physical security threat to the U.S. embassy, we would put U.S. troops to defend.
▶ 1:04:17Sen. Blumenthal: As senator shaheen said, I have no sympathy for the repressive regime there, which has caused deaths and economic turmoil. But, I think we should be informed about any such plans if they are made. Would you agree?
▶ 1:04:34Gen. Donovan: Yes, senator.
▶ 1:04:37Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you. In terms of the seizure of boats , emanating from venezuela, are those operations continuing, general donovan?
▶ 1:04:53Gen. Donovan: Senator, southern command continues to track the dark fleet, those muscles have been designated carrying illicit oil from or to venezuela. We continue to track those. Right now, all in our ar are important, we are not transiting. There had -- some of happened in southcom. One has happened in the indian ocean.
▶ 1:05:22Gen. Donovan: We continue to track the illicit shipping and when directed, we intercept operations.
▶ 1:05:33Sen. Blumenthal: When are they aiding in U.S. operations?
▶ 1:05:43Gen. Donovan: -- led by law enforcement and the coast guard, I am not aware -- unless it is intel, we don't know about direct support. Part of our trip to venezuela was to put pressure on that government to let us board two of the ships they had imported in caracas. They executed the morning and determined what was actually on board.
▶ 1:06:09Sen. Blumenthal: During your nomination hearings, I asked you whether you supported releasing various office legal counsel opinions. I think there are at least two of them that are classified. You deferred to the policy and legal advisors.
▶ 1:06:30Sen. Blumenthal: Now that you are confirmed, I will ask you again, do you believe the american people should have available or have access to those opinions that are the legal basis for the administration carrying out the strikes?
▶ 1:06:44Gen. Donovan: Senator, the department has kept the information.
▶ 1:06:53Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you. My time has expired.
▶ 1:06:58Chair Wicker: Senator ernst.
▶ 1:07:02Sen. Ernst: General guillot, I will start with you. I want to start by highlighting the 185th air refueling wing in sioux city iowa, which plays a critical role in supporting operations and homeland defense missions. Our airmen are operating the kc 135 tankers and they do an exceptional job.
▶ 1:07:28Sen. Ernst: That mission provides essential air refueling, which enables everything from strategic bomber operations to fighter alert missions and rapid response here at home. This capability is essential to projecting power abroad while also supporting northcom's homeland defense function.
▶ 1:07:47Sen. Ernst: Ensuring the sioux city run weight renovations are completed is critical to sustaining this tanker mission and maintaining the international guard's ability to support combat and command operations overseas, and contingency response in the united states. So, sir, can you speak to the operational importance of maintaining strong aerial refueling capabilities in the nation's interior?
▶ 1:08:12Sen. Ernst: And how critical it is to maintain infrastructure like the sioux city runway to ensure those missions continue to support both homeland defense and global force projection?
▶ 1:08:22Gen. Guillot: Yes, senator. I absolutely can. But first, I would say you mentioned the international guard, the national guard as a whole and the success of the norad and northcom mission starts and stops with our relationship with the international and national guard. We rely on some very credible -- incredible and capable fire and aircraft.
▶ 1:08:51Gen. Guillot: The range and duration is limited, especially when you are defending a vast homeland like the united states. And so, with every launch of an alert fighter that seems to get more attention, there is a launch of one or two tankers to make sure they can stay on station and flexible and mobile to meet the threat wherever it is. We cannot do our job without the air refueling tankers.
▶ 1:09:16Sen. Ernst: Thank you. I appreciate that. With that, I will yield back my time.
▶ 1:09:21Chair Wicker: We now have senator hirono.
▶ 1:09:27Sen. Hirono: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. The picture that is being painted with regard to our ability to engage in any kind of operation in cuba, the picture that is being painted in spite of assurances that there are no ongoing preparations to do anything but put together militarily, the picture I have
▶ 1:09:59Sen. Hirono: -- that I'm getting is that it would not take very long for us to be able to respond in some fashion. If the president said we are going to go and we should seize cuba, wouldn't we be able to execute on that in a pretty expeditious way? General donovan?
▶ 1:10:18Gen. Donovan: Senator, since we do not have that plan, we have a number of tasks for cuba. But since we have not -- we are not executing any rehearsals for that plan, the number of forces required, we have general ideas but the focus is truly -- purely on securing guantanamo bay. Those are the only facts you -- facts and figures and planning we have at this time.
▶ 1:10:46Sen. Hirono: How long would it take if the president gave orders to seize cuba, how long would it take for you to be able to execute on the order?
▶ 1:10:55Gen. Donovan: Senator, I would have to go through a planning process with the southcom team to determine what the objectives of the actual operation are. To determine what size of force would be required but we are not executing that planning at this time.
▶ 1:11:10Sen. Hirono: The picture I'm painting, I don't want to get into an argument with you about this, but I do think that you are already there and therefore you are paying attention to what is going on there. It does not seem as though it would take very long for us to execute a plan there. Southern command has previously worked with usaid on humanitarian aid. To cuba.
▶ 1:11:39Sen. Hirono: Now that this has been cut, has that not made the humanitarian aspects about what you are doing with regard to cuba more difficult?
▶ 1:11:46Gen. Donovan: As the U.S. state department is restructured, I have asked a lot of questions about this because I grew up in 37 years of operating with state usaid across the globe. There are other entities that have taken up those roles inside the state department. Now we are connected with them on that front. In many ways, similar to disaster relief and in planning. We have some capabilities.
▶ 1:12:16Gen. Donovan: Just not the name. We are learning how to work together in a new structure in the state department.
▶ 1:12:22Sen. Hirono: You can see that there are definitely expressed concerns about what might be in the president's mind, with regard to cuba. General guillot, I know you are working closely with the general on golden dome. And as you know, hawaii is unique for purposes of missile defense.
▶ 1:12:51Sen. Hirono: You and the admiral are sharing responsibilities based on the threat being posed. The general previously committed to me that the defense of hawaii will be included as part of the golden dome mission. -- missile defense. I just want to get that commitment from you.
▶ 1:13:18Gen. Guillot: Senator, absolutely. The defense of hawaii from ballistic missiles is a response ability of U.S. northern command. And from the inception of our planning of golden dome, it has included the ability to protect those islands from ballistic missile defense.
▶ 1:13:40Gen. Guillot: Since it is a shared defense of hawaii between our two commands, we have combined our main exercises, northern edge and arctic edge to ensure that it is seamless protection.
▶ 1:13:50Sen. Hirono: That is reassuring. General donovan, in light of what happened with the strike that happened on the school in iran, is there a concern that we ought to be doing what we can to mitigate harm to civilians?
▶ 1:14:09Sen. Hirono: I raised concerns about report that southcom lacked a functioning mechanism to receive civilian casualty reports and that southcom civilian harm mitigation staff had been cut from four personnel to a single contractor. You had not assumed your responsibility at that point. I would like to hear what steps southcom has taken to address the issue of mitigating civilian harm.
▶ 1:14:38Gen. Donovan: Senator, yes. One of the first things I did to look at our program for not only planning but response to operations and what I found, as you mentioned, four positions, one out of my own budget. We moved the other capabilities into our j fires so they are part of the planning sell and part of the investigations.
▶ 1:15:06Sen. Hirono: I take it you are increasing your capacity to be able to mitigate?
▶ 1:15:14Gen. Donovan: Yes.
▶ 1:15:16Chair Wicker: Senator king.
▶ 1:15:18Sen. King: I want to follow-up on senator shaheen's questions with regard to discussions, consultations, negotiations with denmark and greenland with regard to additional security assets in greenland. Number one, are there to discuss is taking place, and never two, are they productive? Number three, are you meeting any resistance to establishing additional security assets in greenland?
▶ 1:15:46Gen. Donovan: Senator, we are pursuing with denmark, which we are allowed in the 1951 agreement.
▶ 1:15:55Sen. King: The 1951 agreement is quite comprehensive. We don't really need a new treaty.
▶ 1:16:01Gen. Donovan: It is very comprehensive and frankly very favorable to our operations or potential operations in greenland. Working with the department of state, we have three areas that we would like to negotiate with denmark and greenland to see if we can expand the defense areas from where we are now into these other areas which would help our homeland defense mission.
▶ 1:16:26Sen. King: My final question is are you meeting any resistance, are they being cooperative and receptive to these discussions?
▶ 1:16:33Gen. Donovan: Senator, very cooperative with both greenland and denmark, very eager to discuss ways to move forward to improve our defense capabilities.
▶ 1:16:43Sen. King: Let me expand the vision a little bit to the arctic. Do we have sufficient assets in the arctic? I am worried about, for example, the lack of a port facility in the arctic ocean, whether or not we have -- well, I am almost laughing because of our lack of icebreakers. We have about 1.5 icebreakers and the russians have 40. What are our gaps in the arctic in terms of our ability?
▶ 1:17:15Sen. King: The russians are building up their assets on the arctic side very extensively.
▶ 1:17:18Gen. Donovan: Senator, our challenges in the arctic start with what you mentioned, ports and the ability to navigate really through the harsh conditions of the arctic, both maritime, land, and air. I am working with our department and others to try to develop more ports, more airfields which leads to more options for our secretary and for the president, should we need them up in the arctic.
▶ 1:17:49Gen. Donovan: That is from alaska all the way across through canada and into.
▶ 1:17:53Sen. King: Final question on this area. One of your principal response abilities is sensing, knowing what is coming, domain awareness. My concern is that a lot of our doctrine and technology frankly is geared toward yesterday's threats. We are not going to have time if I hypersonic is coming from somewhere in siberia or somewhere in the northern pacific.
▶ 1:18:23Sen. King: Are we extending our sensor sense further off the coast of alaska, for example, so that we have more time to assess the risk and try to defeat it? It's a big difference between an icbm when you have 20 or 30 minutes and I hypersonic coming 100 feet off the water at 6000 miles per our. Can we detect that hypersonic right now?
▶ 1:18:47Gen. Guillot: Senator, we have the ability to detect the hypersonic's now but I agree with you we need to get better and see further so we have more decisions based. That would require us to move from one into another. We had to have space, ground, surface, under secret ability to detect all of those threats from further away.
▶ 1:19:09Sen. King: As you know, we are moving into the defense bill season here in the committee. Please let us know what is necessary in that area, so we can be sure we address it in the defense bill that is coming up in several months.
▶ 1:19:23Gen. Guillot: Thank you, senator. I will.
▶ 1:19:26Sen. King: Gen. Donovan, are the southcom countries cooperating on this anti-drug mission, in other words, are the governments, partners, are they standing aside, are they corrupted by the cartels? What is the level of cooperation from the other countries in the region?
▶ 1:19:46Gen. Donovan: Senator, obviously, on the surface, the recent announcement at our headquarters, america's counter cartel coalition, 18 siding members that want to get at these problems with all different bearing degrees of capability. Whether that is a functional military, police capability or even legal system that lacks support getting at this problem set.
▶ 1:20:10Gen. Donovan: That is the goal of the coalition, to determine how best to help each of those partners actually find their way forward to counter their location and then the U.S. would play the role maybe as a synchronize or bring the capabilities into enhance their capabilities. Each have different degrees.
▶ 1:20:27Sen. King: Do they have the will? I guess it varies.
▶ 1:20:32Gen. Donovan: Senator, I have been from that conference hearing in D.C., the accc we had in our headquarters. I believe they have the will and are looking to follow, really execute operations that could range from local security, improving the lives of their citizens, all the way to offensive options if required.
▶ 1:20:56Sen. King: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I have a couple of questions if I could follow up.
▶ 1:21:01Chair Wicker: We will take another round. Senator slotkin.
▶ 1:21:06Sen. Slotkin: Thank you both for being here. Gen. Guillot, I was in the home and security hearing yesterday for the incoming secretary of homeland security, talking about what he would do if asked to put armed ice agents at polling locations.
▶ 1:21:28Sen. Slotkin: Could you just stay for us very clearly, do you believe it is legal to put uniformed military, active-duty, at polling locations or any other parts of the building process? Ballot centers. For political purposes?
▶ 1:21:51Gen. Guillot: Senator, it is strictly illegal to do what you described, putting military at polling place, unless, as senator reed mentioned, the exception for countering an armed development.
▶ 1:22:05Sen. Slotkin: There is an exception for countering an armed rebellion. We didn't need uniformed military at our polls during world war ii after pearl harbor, korea, during vietnam, during the riots in the 1960's, and after 9/11 when we were attacked on our soil. Yesterday, the director of national intelligence made no mention in the world by threat briefing of any threats to our elections.
▶ 1:22:35Sen. Slotkin: Are you aware of any threats that meet the definition of armed force, countering the united states, that would require you to consider deploying to the polls?
▶ 1:22:47Gen. Guillot: Senator, I'm not aware of any threats at this time.
▶ 1:22:51Sen. Slotkin: If you are asked to move uniformed military into polling locations without any credible threat reporting of an armed force countering the united states, would you send those forces in?
▶ 1:23:01Gen. Guillot: Ma'am, I recognize that is against the law, and I would not follow an unlawful order.
▶ 1:23:08Sen. Slotkin: Thank you. That hits my ears in an important way, since I made a 92nd video with senator kelly that said uniformed military has a requirement to refuse illegal orders, and because of that, they intended to criminally indict us in front of a grand jury for sedition. I appreciate the ease to say what should be a very standard thing, what I know you all learned in basic training.
▶ 1:23:38Sen. Slotkin: Let me turn to a very different issue, artificial intelligence. There has been a bunch of talk lately about the use of artificial intelligence and military targeting, in the kill chain, the decisions on life and death. There has also been discussion about domestic surveillance. Do you agree that it is illegal for the department of defense to surveilled the american people unless individual americans have proven a threat to U.S.
▶ 1:24:09Sen. Slotkin: Security?
▶ 1:24:09Gen. Guillot: Yes, senator, that falls under the intel oversight. I'm very aware and we follow all of those rules.
▶ 1:24:17Sen. Slotkin: We never want our military, and he went to be questioning that our military is looking at americans as a topic to surveilled. Do you believe that we should have restrictions in place that would just say for everybody, ai companies, any future or current secretary of defense, that you cannot use artificial intelligence for mass surveillance of american citizens?
▶ 1:24:48Gen. Guillot: Senator, doing so would violate the intel oversight rules that I mentioned, so I would support the rules in place.
▶ 1:24:57Sen. Slotkin: Great. What about having a human being in the loop on decisions of life and death, targeting? I think about nuclear weapons. Right now, there is no law that says you couldn't have artificial intelligence, sort of an autonomous system make decisions on the deployment of nuclear weapons. What do you think about having a human being in the decision tree on the use of lethal force?
▶ 1:25:27Gen. Guillot: Senator, having a human being on the loop in all decisions I think is important, some more than others. Every use of artificial intelligence that we use in our command does have humans at the appropriate places on the loop to make sure we are making the right decision.
▶ 1:25:51Sen. Slotkin: Mr. chairman, this is an issue that we should, on a bipartisan basis, take up in the committee for this ndaa. We shouldn't be leaving decision-making up to any private company or anyone secretary of defense or administration. We need to do our job and put some rules of the road in place. Look force -- forward to discussing that in this year's ndaa.
▶ 1:26:16Chair Wicker: Senator budd.
▶ 1:26:21Sen. Budd: Good to see you both. Gen. Donovan, and your short time, how have you seen special operations forces tribute into countering the influence of china, russia, other adversaries in the western hemisphere?
▶ 1:26:32Gen. Donovan: Senator, thank you. The role of special operations forces, we all believe their role is direct action, what we see maybe in the movies. The reality is regular warfare and regular warfare options are the strength of special operations forces. In southcom, when we see those activities by p.r.c., russia, other actors, it is always the special forces that really set the conditions to determine what comes next. They are very agile, mature.
▶ 1:27:02Gen. Donovan: We can put them in locations either in a low visibility or overt capability working with partners. They are our best first tool to assess the situation and the way ahead.
▶ 1:27:15Sen. Budd: Let's talk about cooperation with ecuador. Ecuador and U.S. military forces completed a successful operation against terrorist organizations on march 3. What are some of the success stories of this operation, any lessons learned for the broader region?
▶ 1:27:30Gen. Donovan: Senator, hopefully in a closed session I can provide additional details. The success is, from a phone call between president and president trump, two moving forces quickly to partner with our ecuadorian forces, it was very short timeline.
▶ 1:27:48Gen. Donovan: That was based on years invested in the partnership in the different types of events, but the fact that the special operations forces including the ground forces and air forces can quickly plan with the ecuadorians to ensure that any use of force fell within our requirements, very impressed on how the ecuadorians operated on both of those operations in a short period of time, very professional planning, took part, observed in both. Very professional execution.
▶ 1:28:18Sen. Budd: General, what is your assessment about their willingness in ecuador, there could ability to take a greater role in contributing to regional security there? What are some other things in southcom leading the way?
▶ 1:28:32Gen. Donovan: Ecuador is a primary focus. We recently established a fusion cell with the ecuadorian ministry of defense. They are leading the way, very similar to the fusion so we have in colombia. Different fuel cells in the region. The other nation that is stepping forward is paraguay. Recently signed an agreement with the united states, status of force agreement, which allows us to operate much more closely together.
▶ 1:29:04Gen. Donovan: There is great opportunities there with air domain awareness. We have radars coming down to increase the air domain awareness. Paraguay is another recent leader. I will tell you, the americas counter coalition, counter cartel coalition with 18 members, all seem to have varying degrees to move forward quickly. We have a number of partners to move forward at this time.
▶ 1:29:28Sen. Budd: Gen. Guillot, good to see you. Just saw that you wrapped up operation arctic adage weeks ago. Tell us about key lessons learned from the exercise in terms of northcom's priorities, are there areas where you need congressional support with regarding that?
▶ 1:29:45Gen. Guillot: Senator, arctic adage this year, I delivered the move from the "warm months" in alaska to the harsher conditions to ensure we have the ability to generate forces and execute in the harshest conditions. We learned some lessons about that.
▶ 1:30:06Gen. Guillot: The forces stationed in alaska are very good at that but as we brought forces in from the outside, we see they need to make sure they have the right equipment, viscosity of oil in their generators, the right procedures in their operators to generate, launch, receive, repair aircraft. The operational focus was on cruise missile defense. We brought out some cruise missile replicators that gave us a lot of insights on how we would defend that critical landscape and others from the cruise missile threat.
▶ 1:30:36Gen. Guillot: It is a very profitable exercise for us. What did we learn? Fourth-generation fighter aircraft such as the ones we have in alaska, are very important. With the cruise missile threat, having aircraft like the f-15e or ex, which has longer-range, more missiles on board to defeat that threat, would be critical in the future.
▶ 1:31:01Sen. Budd: Thank you, general. I saw that arctic edge, trilateral with the canadians and the danes. Why is greenland important for our national security, what was cooperation with the danes like?
▶ 1:31:14Gen. Guillot: Very briefly, we spent a lot of time looking at our 10:00 approach through alaska, 12:00 approach through canada. Having full cooperation on the 2:00 approach through greenland with denmark is essential. The cooperation and participation by the danes and special operations as well as in fighters was outstanding.
▶ 1:31:35Sen. Budd: Thank you.
▶ 1:31:36Chair Wicker: Senator kelly.
▶ 1:31:41Sen. Kelly: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Gen. Donovan, I want to start with operation southern sphere and the continued use of maritime strikes. As of march 9, the joint task force southern sphere has reportedly conducted about 45 boat strikes resulting in the deaths of approximately 156 people. That's a significant number of strikes and casualties in what is fundamentally a counter trafficking mission, not a traditional armed conflict.
▶ 1:32:11Sen. Kelly: These operations raise serious concerns and questions about effectiveness and a strategic outcome. I want to understand the strategic rationale here. These repeated boat strikes suggest a tactical approach that may be generating headlines, but it is far less clear that they are producing durable security outcomes. To me, this operation looks like a cycle of reactive strikes with limited long-term impact.
▶ 1:32:43Sen. Kelly: General, what evidence do you have that this campaign is actually degrading cartel operations, rather than simply destroying some low-level assets among boats, killing some people , displacing some trafficking rounds?
▶ 1:33:00Gen. Donovan: Senator, in the last 43 days, I've looked directly at that. I cannot provide measures of effectiveness of the current effort, but I will share with you that what I've seen, the reports I read, talking to partner nations, primarily partner nations that have had this exact conversation. We have seen changes in the narco trafficker's patterns. In a close setting, I'd like to provide more details on that.
▶ 1:33:30Gen. Donovan: Looking forward, senator, the boat strikes are not the answer. What we are moving for right now is, the extension of southern spear, really a counter cartel campaign process that pokes total systemic friction across the network. We know there are number of cartels involved on four or five different land and sea routes.
▶ 1:33:53Gen. Donovan: Putting total systemic friction from the point of production to the point of delivery, putting that together, I believe cannot extract will be one of the many tools and probably not the most effective tool.
▶ 1:34:03Sen. Kelly: I agree. You said it is not the answer, not an effective tool, and it is hard to find a measure of effectiveness here. I get the systemic friction thing, but consider for a second, general, we moved a battle group halfway across the planet to do this, and then had to move them back for the war in iran.
▶ 1:34:28Sen. Kelly: I am concerned about a strategic goal here, having the intended effect of reducing the inflow of drugs into our country, especially when you consider the most significant downside for the american people is fentanyl. That mostly comes through the southern borders, land borders.
▶ 1:34:59Sen. Kelly: If we would put those kinds of resources, when you think about what it takes to have a battle group there on station, multiple ships, burning a lot of fuel, crewmembers. If you put that kind of resource toward dealing with the fentanyl problem at the ports of entry, I think that would have a greater strategic impact on the overall problem. I have about one minute 15 seconds left. Gen.
▶ 1:35:28Sen. Kelly: Guillot come in your written testimony, you stated iran's nuclear capability has been severely degraded by the strikes executed during midnight hammer and epic fury, but that iran seems to retain some capacity to direct reprisal attacks on the homeland through asymmetric means.
▶ 1:35:48Sen. Kelly: How is the war in iran altered the overall threat landscape to the homeland, specifically as a degradation of iran's conventional warfare systems increase the likelihood of harder to detect asymmetric attacks like cyber and the potential for homegrown violent extremists?
▶ 1:36:08Gen. Guillot: Senator, approaching the beginning of the the operations, I was concerned about cyber attacks and espionage. I was worried about terrorism, legal plots. I was also very concerned about the missile capabilities where they have the space launch vehicle, capability and range that could be turned into an icbm and threaten us. Certainly, the cyber attacks and the terrorism lethal plot concerns remain.
▶ 1:36:37Gen. Guillot: I'm very hopeful the strikes by centcom will negate the ballistic missile threat. We will be for the debrief to see if that has actually happened. I'm very confident that it will be.
▶ 1:36:49Sen. Kelly: Let's follow up on this in the skif after this hearing.
▶ 1:36:55Chair Wicker: Very good. Senator scott.
▶ 1:37:01Sen. Scott: Thank you, chairman. Thank you both for being here, thank you to all the women and men that serve. My questions are for gen. Donovan. My state has a large venezuelan american population, many of whom came here seeking freedom after witnessing the evils of chavez and madero. It is clear that operation absolute resolve was a success thanks to our war fighters and the decisive leadership of the president and secretary of war.
▶ 1:37:29Sen. Scott: Today, madero and his thoughts are no longer wreaking havoc in our hemisphere by sending deadly drugs into our country. While I know you can spend time outlining how crucial every unit's contribution was to the operation's success, can you specifically talk about the 22nd marine expeditionary unit and their success?
▶ 1:37:49Gen. Donovan: Thank you. When you talk about the 22nd marine expeditionary unit, you also ought to talk about the amphibious group that they ride on. That is a force that is still on task today, 12 nautical miles off the coast of venezuela. This is key. I told you I traveled to caracas to meet with that government, our amazing people there.
▶ 1:38:15Gen. Donovan: Their safety and security is based on that amphibious platform, 12 miles off the coast, with a quick reaction force, but also with a force ready to respond. That is the only kit we have in the entire region until we get back to gitmo where we have a naval base hospital that doesn't have similar surgical capabilities.
▶ 1:38:39Gen. Donovan: That marine expeditionary unit, and with a bit of pride, about four days ago, we got our first picture of a flag being raised over the embassy. When we recognized it as a U.S. embassy again. Those marines and teammates around with their ambassador and diplomat putting that flag up. That is what the meu continues to do. >> how do you assess the readiness of the group in southcom?
▶ 1:39:06Gen. Donovan: As we look at the cape abilities brought to southcom for operation absolute resolve and other activities, the carrier strike group that we mentioned before with senator kelly, incredible capabilities, there is a whole joint force from client or observable aircraft to high and destroyer systems, class cruisers. The reality is, the arg meu sustaining that is important because alone by itself as it operates is a three ship group.
▶ 1:39:38Gen. Donovan: I called the swiss army knife of the joint force. It can do just about everything. As far as an economy of force, it can deliver relief surprise or can extract if it had to. It's the most effective tool we have. The reality is we don't have enough. That is a challenge that we in the 1990's, what was called yalta to arg meu deployments. We have dropped our number of available ships, so we cannot do that.
▶ 1:40:05Gen. Donovan: We are looking at alternatives, want to use other platforms like the combat ship, expeditionary support base, other combinations that would be less than one in arg meu brings to southcom.
▶ 1:40:16Sen. Scott: What are the risks if you don't have those assets?
▶ 1:40:19Gen. Donovan: If we don't have those assets, and I think about -- my most important role is to achieve the mission but take care of our joint force team members. If you don't have that surgical suite, that long-range flights for an attic strike or transport, we cannot operate. It goes back also to looking at our bases in the region that had not received a whole lot of upkeep over the last decades.
▶ 1:40:47Gen. Donovan: Whether that is reopening, taking part in operations in puerto rico. The puerto rican government has been amazing, the national guard has been the backbone of a lot of our operations. Are we going to stay or are we going to invest? Same thing in guantanamo bay. Other locations like honduras, great support, but are we up speed to operate without those key, heavier assets?
▶ 1:41:12Sen. Scott: Can you talk about the importance of homestead air force base?
▶ 1:41:17Gen. Donovan: Its key location, especially for big wing autonomous isr platforms, specifically as we look at bringing that machine, but we could lunch there and sustained over especially the caribbean, would be key to any of our plans to develop an autonomous maritime domain. Homestead plays a key role in that.
▶ 1:41:44Sen. Scott: Thanks to both of you and the people that you work with.
▶ 1:41:54Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator gillibrand.
▶ 1:42:00Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I still have grave concerns about how the targeting was done , how the choice of the first iran attack that hit a girl's school took place. We need to have a bipartisan hearing, discussion and legislation about the use of ai, whether it is used, when it is used, how it is used.
▶ 1:42:28Sen. Gillibrand: We don't have any details about that straight, whether ai was used in targeting. We obviously need to know that. I like to learn from both of you, and I know that senator slotkin covered this and you said, currently, no ai is being used for domestic surveillance. You said that ai is not using, in decision making a kinetic attack.
▶ 1:42:54Sen. Gillibrand: I'd like to have a commitment from you that you will not use ai for decision-making, making the final decision about whether to attack an allocation, to strike a location and use lethal force. Second, I want a commitment from both of you that you will not be using ai for any domestic surveillance in your aors.
▶ 1:43:17Gen. Guillot: To the first, I will make all this is that my authority or to someone who is legally delegated the authority. It will be a human. We will not use, surveilled U.S. citizens.
▶ 1:43:30Sen. Gillibrand: Gen. Donovan?
▶ 1:43:33Gen. Donovan: Senator, we will not surveilled U.S. citizens. As you were speaking, senator, we were involved in a process last night, targeting process, only humans involved. The data helps us make decisions. In a closed session, I can describe to you, they made the right decisions in the end.
▶ 1:43:54Sen. Gillibrand: I'm aware that our service members are trained to the highest standards for targeting in warfare. I know that our service members follow the law of war, I know they follow all of the geneva conventions. I have great faith that they will continue to do so. I'm deeply concerned with secretary hegseth's decision-making with regard to undermining the personnel and department whose job it is to protect civilians and to ensure compliance with those laws of war.
▶ 1:44:26Sen. Gillibrand: I'm deeply concerned about secretary hegseth's rhetoric saying we need a lethal force and we don't need these types of protections. I am deeply concerned about his firing of senior counsel and jags throughout the services. Those are some of the best trained men and women we have two make sure our war fighters have the tools, advice, guidance you need to fight wars consistent with america's values. So I'm deeply concerned how those protections will be eroded.
▶ 1:44:54Sen. Gillibrand: I like your commitment that those protections will not be eroded under your command.
▶ 1:45:01Gen. Guillot: Senator, they will not be eroded. Just to illustrate the jag in our command is integrated into all of our activities, in fact is sitting behind me right now.
▶ 1:45:13Sen. Gillibrand: Gen. Donovan.
▶ 1:45:15Gen. Donovan: Very similar, senator. They will not be eroded in U.S. southern command.
▶ 1:45:21Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you. I'd like to turn to the issue of uas. When we had Mr. lipson here, I asked about the requirements the dod pushes down to dhs when it allows dhs to use dod counter uhs systems and whether that include requirements for coordination with relevant agencies. He said the policy defers to northcom on this question.
▶ 1:45:52Sen. Gillibrand: Gen. Guillot, I'd like you to talk to us a little bit about what requirements including for interagency coordination you passed out to dhs in order for them to take possession of the systems? I ask this in the context of the recent drone incursion over one of our military bases that was just reported on today.
▶ 1:46:10Gen. Guillot: Senator, when the counter uhs laser system was temporarily transferred from our department to dhs, gtf southern border, the organization that was operating the laser, told dhs that they would do the training but any coordination must be through their department because it is operating under 124n, a code that we do not have
▶ 1:46:41Gen. Guillot: Extremes with aura understand. We operate under 135. . Bigger than that, we understand there has to be massive coordination. I think our coordination with the faa, dhs and others was strong before, but this highlighted an error that required improvement. We have addressed those since then.
▶ 1:47:02Sen. Chair Wicker: Senator cram.
▶ 1:47:08Sen. Cramer: , thank you both for being here, for your service, certainly to the men and women under your command. Thank you all. I want to follow up a little bit on the counter uas topic that began with senator shaheen, senator gillibrand. First of all, let me ask the question, I guess this also came up under senator shaheen.
▶ 1:47:35Sen. Cramer: With regard to canada, their involvement, role, partnership -- and I agree with everything she asked him what you said. One question I've been thinking a lot about is, one of the encouraging things in the new administration of canada -- I have met the prime minister on a couple occasions. Their commitment to put more of their own resources into their own defense, made the 2% pledge.
▶ 1:48:03Sen. Cramer: We have gotten to we have gotten use to pledges not fulfilled by certain countries. Is there solid evidence that they are acting on that commitment to get to 2% or greater in their defense budget?
▶ 1:48:17Gen. Guillot: Senator, like in our system, it takes a while for the procurement and employment, but everything I'm sitting at my level is full commitment to include exchanges with our f-35 base and I'll send we are bringing their pilots and maintainers into learn to operate fifth generation in the arctic, air defense, radar, satellite discussions. Everything I'm seeing at norad's full commitment and full eagerness to expand.
▶ 1:48:48Sen. Cramer: I appreciate that validation. It is my observation as well but I don't see it as closely as you, so that's encouraging. I think is important for us to all take note of that commitment. With regard to the unauthorized incursions of uas into particularly airbases, the use of counter uas, wanted to address that threat.
▶ 1:49:16Sen. Cramer: In my part of the world, acc has named grant forced air base as a point defense battle lab. In a couple of weeks, we will cut a ribbon. Acc is an organization to assume the tactical, experimental training. Helping us to better inform policy as well as decisions on the spot.
▶ 1:49:46Sen. Cramer: I would also add to that, colonel roselle, 319 reconnaissance wing at grand forks, really well postured, able to leverage industry contacts over at grand sky, enhanced lease U.S. park, big and small, innovative industries . Maybe you could elaborate a little bit on the role of all of the above.
▶ 1:50:16Sen. Cramer: It seems to me this is not just in all of government or all joint force, but all of innovation challenge that needs to be dealt with. Maybe you could give me your take on how you see it all coming together.
▶ 1:50:29Gen. Guillot: Senator, it is certainly a missionary that has expanded greatly over the last couple years. Our command was named the department synchronizer not only within our department but within the interagency.
▶ 1:50:45Gen. Guillot: They also established -- a fantastic organization commanded by general matt ross who has done a great job of getting with industry and bringing in a lot of the legislative requirements that combatant command is not equipped to address.
▶ 1:51:03Gen. Guillot: Teaming with them and installations such as grand forks, and also with this body, your committee helped us last year with four authorities that we needed to ensure we could effectively employ U.S. systems to defend. One of those was to allow exchanges of information with local and state capabilities with our departments get abilities on the base.
▶ 1:51:34Gen. Guillot: That has since been addressed. I think it is just going to get stronger and stronger and more necessary to tie, instead of single point counter uas capabilities come into a network that extends beyond bases and into cities and communities.
▶ 1:51:49Sen. Cramer: Some of the institutions that have those capabilities, restricted abilities. Higher education?
▶ 1:51:57Gen. Guillot: We were with university of arizona, university of texas el paso, many others that have great systems that use common, off-the-shelf capabilities that we can spread quickly.
▶ 1:52:09Sen. Cramer: Thank you.
▶ 1:52:11Chair Wicker: Thank you. Senator kaine.
▶ 1:52:16Sen. Kaine: Thank you. Gen. Donovan, the national defense strategy lists the western hemisphere as the most important region for national security. I'm actually very supportive of that recognition. I have some real concerns about the legality of the boat strikes in international waters and the legality of the venezuela operation. As you and I have talked before, I also worry about a U.S.
▶ 1:52:41Sen. Kaine: Posture that suggests the attitude toward the region should be an updating of the monroe doctrine. Having lived in latin america, that really lands badly in latin america, suggests that U.S. will be a dominator rather than a partner. What nation wants a partner rather than a dominator?
▶ 1:53:05Sen. Kaine: The priority of the western hemisphere makes sense, your discussion in things like counter cartel consortium that you are putting together. That is the kind of thing that we should do more of. But here is the challenge. Every year, the southcom posture hearing involves the cocom sitting there under resourced do the most modest mission that we have directed to them, but now the nds suggest it will be even more.
▶ 1:53:35Sen. Kaine: Senator cotton at another hearing asked you about some resource questions. Let me ask you a different question which is sort about the structure of southcom hq and operation. Do you have the current structure that you need to take on effectively this mission of increasing importance?
▶ 1:53:53Gen. Donovan: Senator, thank you. No, we do not. In 43 days, the strength of southcom is that partnership, the relationships throughout the region. I found out a couple of things that right now currently, because over the years, navy house southcom is viewed from the economy of force, we ended up with a one third military, 130 gs government service, one third contractor headquarters. It is not sustainable.
▶ 1:54:24Gen. Donovan: Almost like a two layer cake now. The base later of security and cooperation, we do great things. That is the strength that enables everything else. To be at that next level, hemisphere approach, to partner better with northcom, that layer of the cake is not in existence. That is what we are working on now, make the base layer strong to do what it needs to do, find the right balance of people, the right talent to be able to actually function as a geographic combatant command, not at the low tactical level.
▶ 1:54:56Gen. Donovan: We have elements that can do this. But the adjacents to be good partners in the region. Also how do we compete for resources on an equal level to other geographic combatant commands? I have found the budget resources come from an executive agency, united states army. We live on army compound. It's an interesting look at this. Do I expect the army to then fund campaign in south america? There is a mismatch here.
▶ 1:55:25Sen. Kaine: You are 43 days in, so you are not at the end of the analysis. Decision about what the right structure would be. Obviously, we want to be in dialogue with you so that the committee can do the right thing to elevate the importance of southcom to where he needs to be given the nds. A question about the boat strikes. I have reviewed all the material available to congress on each of those strengths current through last week.
▶ 1:55:55Sen. Kaine: There might have been one or two that I have not looked at. I would encourage my colleagues to do the same. The last time I got briefed by the targeting criteria, classified briefing, was in december. Do you know whether the targeting criteria with respect to the boat strikes in international waters have changed or not since december?
▶ 1:56:14Gen. Donovan: Senator, I do not believe it has changed. It has not changed since I took over but have not seen any changes. We are still using the same process of reasonable certainty, near certainty to make the final decision.
▶ 1:56:27Sen. Kaine: I don't want to get into this more in open. I may ask another question in classified. Gen. Guillot, you can ask some questions, the chair asked about it, you are engaging about uas issues. We had a good discussion about it. I think it is now in a good place that is giving the committee some confidence about it. However, the confidence I have is about the aerial concern.
▶ 1:56:56Sen. Kaine: I'm starting to get more worried about service and marine uncr ewed weapons systems that can do damage to ships and other assets we have. Talk about from the northcom space what are you doing to make sure that we are really appropriately assessing and guarding against other uncrwed systems other than the aerosystems?
▶ 1:57:18Gen. Donovan: I share your concern. General ross would tell you that we look at unmanned systems as opposed to aerial more and more frequently. I would really like to learn from admiral cooper in centcom, some of the work he has done in his position and also in the previous position when he was the fifth fleet commander there where he used unmanned detection systems and defensive systems in and around ports in the middle east.
▶ 1:57:47Gen. Donovan: I think you'll see that as becoming an increasing focus of hours to the point where sometimes you don't say uas anymore, you just talk about unmanned systems.
▶ 1:57:57Chair Wicker: Thank you very much, senator banks.
▶ 1:58:03Sen. Banks: Gen. Guillot, talk about what we want in greenland. As I understand it, the agreement is that, the unofficial agreement is that we would have more troop presence, margaret -- more bases, golden dome presence there, then kick the chinese out. Is that accurate, or do we want?
▶ 1:58:24Gen. Guillot: From my perspective at norad and northcom, what I want is the resources and this force production capability along the avenue of approach to north america. Through the arctic, our most, the shortest route, so therefore the most vulnerable route. We are very well-established in canada and alaska, having marketability of what I call the 2:00 approach would be key.
▶ 1:58:52Gen. Guillot: Space systems to enable golden dome, the ability to launch fighters and tankers to be the first line of defense against cruise missiles that could be launched from the arctic. Also having soft presence for regular activities and then port presence for our navy which also gives us golden dome and missile-defense blister capability.
▶ 1:59:17Sen. Kaine: Can you give us some context on what we have now, the agreement president trump is negotiating, that would allow us that we cannot do currently?
▶ 1:59:26Gen. Guillot: What we have now is access to an airbase at the northern part of greenland which gives us some of the fiber intake or capability, a lot of space cap ability. But we don't have a permanent presence for the soft and don't have a permanent presence for some of the ameritech abilities that I need, and that is where we are working with denmark to get more access.
▶ 1:59:48Sen. Banks: Sounds like denmark and greenland are willing to give us that.
▶ 1:59:52Gen. Guillot: Very supportive partners.
▶ 1:59:54Sen. Banks: Has been a lot of noise and politics about greenland but sounds like these negotiations are productive, can do to a place I believe america better off.
▶ 2:00:02Gen. Guillot: Very productive, and the need is very real.
▶ 2:00:06Sen. Banks: Gen. Donovan, can you talk more about, as senator kaine was talking about, what some of us would call the trump corollary to the monroe doctrine, what that means to national security. What does that mean to cuba? What would happen if the chinese were kicked out of cuba? Would that be better off for them? Is that an accurate way to interpret the trump corollary?
▶ 2:00:36Gen. Donovan: Senator, I'm not tracking a heavy presence of china in cuba at this time. Our focus remains on our core tasks of protecting the embassy. Operations at gitmo. I'm not tracking any operation with china unless you have a smaller intel capabilities that we believe are there, but that is all in tracking at this time.
▶ 2:00:56Sen. Banks: Have there been public reports that there are chinese intelligence facilities in cuba?
▶ 2:01:02Gen. Donovan: Yes, there have been reports of that.
▶ 2:01:05Sen. Banks: The china military power report indicates china has likely considered military basing, at least considered it in cuba.
▶ 2:01:14Gen. Donovan: Yes, senator. The bigger concern is the collection capability that close to you shores. That is my bigger concern.
▶ 2:01:22Sen. Banks: Unpack for us with the national security strategy means then vis-à-vis cuba.
▶ 2:01:29Gen. Donovan: With the focus on the western hemisphere, the reality is, we have to ensure those maligned actors, whether china or russia or iran, anywhere in south america, how are we countering them from different degrees of capabilities that we bring? Most of those would be economic, most would be partnerships, to enable our partners to correct.
▶ 2:01:56Gen. Donovan: That is why marek mois becomes a peaceful asking whether that is seeing fishing fleets, the same paving so they can actually make a decision. We are there a partner.
▶ 2:02:08Sen. Banks: Would you say national security strategy is a morning to china not to think about it? I like that. China's nuclear power guided missile submarines threatened the U.S. homeland. How important that we protect those some of them before they enter U.S. waters?
▶ 2:02:29Gen. Guillot: It is of highest importance.
▶ 2:05:08Gen. Guillot: And ensure we are covered to the best degree possible. >> your comment is on heightened alert for all of these? >> yes, sir. >> concern, discussion about greenland with some of my colleagues. We were there recently, incredible facility and completely dark when I was there, about 750 miles north of the arctic circle. Clearly, an important strategic position for us there.
▶ 2:05:40Gen. Guillot: When we were there, the folks in greenland were incredibly angry that the united states the rhetoric coming from this administration was that they were either going to be purchased, which they were pretty clear to tell us they cannot be bought, or they were going to have ainvasion read whi going to have ainvasion read wh, they talked about a power outage they had a nuke in the capital city and everybody was in fear this meant the americans were
▶ 2:06:11Gen. Guillot: Invading. Children were highly distressed. They did not go to school. Which is pretty outrageous that an ally believes in the power goes out that means U.S. troops are invading. It is a pretty horrible situation we are in right now. Some of the comments I heard from people were highly emotional and felt betrayed by the united states. Tell me, what are you doing in your commander try to work with our ally and get past what was pretty horrible situation for them.
▶ 2:06:41Gen. Guillot: I've often found I think it is true in life if you breach someone's trust, takes a lot of work to get that trust back. How are we are you in particular I know you care a lot about greenland, how are we going to redeem that trust?
▶ 2:06:59Gen. Guillot: >> senator, I would try to maintain the trust we have established with both greenland to our partners in denmark by being openly transparent and seeking new and improved ways to partner together and we have done that even since your recent visit and with noble defender exercise that traditionally had been only ground forces we partnered with denmark for the
▶ 2:07:29Gen. Guillot: Most recent noble defender and then for our arctic exercise, also including denmark which is the military presence that greenland has. So being open, transparent, and exploring opportunities we partnered together is where I want to show we are a valued partner and can be trusted. I think we have been successful in that.
▶ 2:07:55Gen. Guillot: >> certainly that is good and what I talk to the military, especially the danish military, that relationship is still there and that is where the problem was sprayed with a problem is with the people are not part of the military. I would hope as you continue these kinds of efforts as you just described, that is communicated the general populace greenland because that is where the trust has been broken. Where the work is going to be necessary.
▶ 2:08:23Chair Wicker: Senator sullivan.
▶ 2:08:29Sen. Sullivan: . Thank you for your service and your staff and team members, thank you as well. General, I appreciate the meeting in my office yesterday. I talk about this chart a lot. This chart is running out of room. These are the russian and chinese incursions in the arctic alaska, alr, that you and the into opaque commander responsible for. The tempo as I mentioned is increasing. We are out of room here.
▶ 2:09:03Sen. Sullivan: The last incursion and our response which was mourad, we launched nine assets. Two f-16s, 235's, and I think four or five tankers. Now, when these make the news -- they never make the news down here. In alaska, they make the news. We say, oh, the russians came into our airspace, we intercepted them.
▶ 2:09:29Sen. Sullivan: These are highly complex, high-risk missions, dangerous for airmen and reserve, active-duty. They do a great job. Can you explain a little bit of the danger and complexity? I will bring up a map here. We are launching -- how far are our f-16s and f-35's flying just to intercept the russians before they cross?
▶ 2:10:01Gen. Guillot: You are right, the picture of our fighters next to their bombers looks very harmless and easy but especially from alaska with the distances and the harsh environment make a very complex.
▶ 2:10:18Gen. Guillot: When they get the alert, they know they're probably going to have to fly 1500 miles, 1600 miles from the nearest suitable concrete to land if they have an emergency. Just to intercept them.
▶ 2:10:35Sen. Sullivan: That is only halfway through the mission. 1500 miles.
▶ 2:10:38Gen. Guillot: Not even halfway because they will intercept them and escort them for the duration of that period and then have to fly back. These missions are often six to eight hours in flight gear that has to accommodate if they eject and survive and so --
▶ 2:10:58Sen. Sullivan: And 50 below zero.
▶ 2:11:01Gen. Guillot: They have to wear the gear in case they have to leave the cockpit. These are some of the most challenging and really brave missions that we can do.
▶ 2:11:15Sen. Sullivan: How many tanker top offs with a mission like that entail?
▶ 2:11:23Gen. Guillot: If they go to the extent of the aleutians or up to the north part of your map, I would cite a minimum of six every feelings come often at night and that cumbersome gear, which gives me just a second to point out the tankers are also up there to make sure we can complete the mission along with the fighters.
▶ 2:11:44Sen. Sullivan: Thank you for that. I want to thank our military. Let's say you're doing and intercept up here. You are in an f-16. Lose an engine. February, the middle of the night. F-16s have one engine, right?
▶ 2:12:05Gen. Guillot: If they have any indications -- I know if they had to eject, at least it is overland and not water. If the engine is still working, 1500 miles or so from the nearest suitable runway.
▶ 2:12:25Sen. Sullivan: Let me ask another question, I spoke with the secretary of the air force recently. The air force has committed to me 10 years ago to get more 135's for this exact purpose but other reasons. I think they're working at but 10 years as a long time to wait for a commitment from the air force. We also need more infrastructure. Reopening the navy base today. Looking at that appear.
▶ 2:12:58Sen. Sullivan: Can you talk about both the need for tankers and expanded infrastructure that you're working on that can help make this mission more doable or safe and to give the power projection that we need to make sure when the russians and chinese keep doing this all indications are there going to keep doing it, we have the ability to intercept?
▶ 2:13:21Gen. Guillot: Yes, sir, we need the tankers another -- I know the air force is working on that. That is a lifeline up there. All of the base as you pointed out are extremely important for a couple of reasons. One is resiliency. Safety issue mentioned. Also it gives the president and the secretary options if we do come into conflict. More evidence of an approach that we can defend or project power from if necessary.
▶ 2:13:50Sen. Sullivan: Thank you.
▶ 2:13:53Chair Wicker: As our objection to putting copies of these two posters in the record? So ordered. Senator duckworth.
▶ 2:14:03Sen. Duckworth: I wish I could ask about the range of threats and your team is battling every day but instead, president trump is threatening another unprecedented domestic misuse of our military.
▶ 2:14:26Sen. Duckworth: In february, president trump said "republicans ought to nationalize the voting." in late february, multiple media outlets reported a draft executive order is being circulated that would use the claim of foreign interference as justification to declare a national emergency around our elections. Let me be clear, sending troops to polling places is a legal unless it is necessary to repel armed enemies of the united states. We can't forget U.S.
▶ 2:14:50Sen. Duckworth: Code also aloes troops from intimidating -- outlaws troops from intimidating the right of suffrage of any general special election. I appreciate you previously committed to establish guardrails within your authority for domestic troops including by distinction between military and federal agents. If president trump orders troops to american cities are in the midterm elections, what guardrails will you commit to within your authority to ensure no voters feel intimidated by the presence of troops?
▶ 2:15:20Gen. Guillot: Senator, I clearly understand the law and the legality of putting armed forces unless there is the exception of the armed rebellion. If given the order, I would look at it very closely and if they did not meet what I felt were the legal hurdles, consult with my jag and bring up that concern with the secretary and chairman to ensure I could stay on the
▶ 2:15:50Gen. Guillot: Right side of the law.
▶ 2:15:50Sen. Duckworth: If your order to deploy troops to provide logistical support to federal agents run the election, would you see any reason for having troops address body armor, carrying weapons, ammunition if it is for logistical support?
▶ 2:16:03Gen. Guillot: Logistical support is not one of the exceptions. No, I would not see any recent use armed and uniformed members around polling places for logistics.
▶ 2:16:15Sen. Duckworth: Would you be advised they not be allowed a certain --
▶ 2:16:20Gen. Guillot: I don't think I should be anywhere near where we would give the perception we are trying to operate illegally.
▶ 2:16:28Sen. Duckworth: Thank you. The statute specified any member of the armed forces who deploys to polling places or intimidates voters could be in or disqualified from office. As we saw during the december hearing domestic, this administration is comfortable trusting our servicemembers into legally and leaving them to hang out to dry without legal protection.
▶ 2:16:59Sen. Duckworth: We know president trump who grandstands and well -- well is he is all about war fighters is the fastest to betray them. As a former guardsman, this is serious to me. We saw the misadventure lester deploying troops to american cities to five fellow guardsmen on their communities we call home. Taxpayers have to pay $21 million for president trump's decision to federalize 500 guardsmen in illinois alone.
▶ 2:17:27Sen. Duckworth: Troops never actually set foot in chicago. They sat around training sites for three months, away from their families because the courts and yet he kept them there for another three months through the christmas holidays. Now he might once again for the military away from their daily lives to police americans, this time to intimidate voters with no basis in fact, no basis in law and at the expense of millions of taxpayer dollars.
▶ 2:17:54Sen. Duckworth: I like to use my remaining time to turn to operations and's outcome, another arena of misuse by this administration. In our power conversation prior to your confirmation, I expressed my concern about this administration targeting decisions and what you might be asked to do once you are in leadership of southcom. I want to follow on our conversation, what guidance have you received or issued for how to treat associates of a group differently from a confirmed direct member of the group? >> center, thank you.
▶ 2:18:29Sen. Duckworth: I think the affiliates is a term that we are using now.
▶ 2:18:32Sen. Hirono: The administration is calling these folks associates but it is different from being a confirmed direct member of the group. >> we have a definition of affiliates tied to that. We would like to share word for word what the definition is. >> this is about a term associate which is what the administration has use. I'm concerned about the looseness of a term that's outcome have been using to report an individual be killed specifically affiliate or associate.
▶ 2:19:00Sen. Hirono: Those are the two words are used which implies an even weaker association with any concerning threat. To be clear, stricken people in the caribbean sea under weak justification is not only disturbing, it's illegal. This campaign has not been authorized by congress. Despite what this administration might say or want to believe, this is not a global war on terror. This is a different situation entirely.
▶ 2:19:26Sen. Hirono: One in which an administration is risking american troops and american civilians at the expense of american taxpayers with no transparency or rational justification. >> thank. Senator schmitt. You temporarily have the gavel. >> big promotion. Thank you, senator.
▶ 2:19:45Sen. Hirono: General donovan, I want to ask you, the prc's dramatically increasing their footprint by way of infrastructure at ports including one of the largest fishing fleet in the world. In the 2025 national security strategy, it declares we are going to deny non-hemispheric competitors the ability to own or control significant vital assets in our hemisphere. What are some of those assets that are of concern?
▶ 2:20:16Sen. Hirono: >> the primary as I'm concerned about is the panama canal. Maintaining the panama canal open for free commerce. The true focus of ensuring we can ensure forces east and west of the panama canal. We have other mineral assets were concerned, concerned about undersea cables coming into chile at the prc are tied to, otherwise the dual use nature of almost everything they install in our nation.
▶ 2:20:43Sen. Schmitt: Is encouraging the panama acted on this. It doesn't feel like a one and done kind of thing. One is on the horizon that we have to be mindful of with regard to the panama canal specifically?
▶ 2:20:58Gen. Donovan: Thank you for highlighting. The president is a great partner. The fact that we are holding southcom's largest action in years. 24 other nations coming. They are not only holding the chinese at bay, they've also become key partners in the region. We believe things like a jungle training operation school, those are core not only to increase our capabilities as U.S.
▶ 2:21:25Gen. Donovan: Service members but also to bring other partners together to develop those relationships. What I've also realized in this first 43 days, that same environment that these cartels thrive in, that they look to create those and arctic situation they can flourish in, the prc is right there with them come in the same areas countering local government. The chinese can move in quickly and build a cheap school, cheap soccer stadium or road, and gain influence.
▶ 2:21:53Gen. Donovan: The more we work with these partners, where we shall be a good partners and teammates and you some of the tools we have, economic defense unit, strategic capital, we are introducing new tools to counter the prc influence in the region.
▶ 2:22:06Sen. Schmitt: It feels like the post-maduro, it feels like we have a lot of folks coming our way and that part of the world, latin american governments come her friends are becoming better friends, people who are maybe not so outwardly favorable to us have come our way, is that your assessment?
▶ 2:22:31Gen. Donovan: Maybe for they signed a document that we now have a coalition that will have a military aspect. When I say military, it is really partners who are willing to join with us to move forward against the cartels with different degrees based on what they can bring but pretty positive in you can sense that folks want to get at this problem.
▶ 2:22:58Gen. Donovan: >> I want to ask you for a counter ua as threats, the threats that are out there. Missouri is home to whiteman air force base. How are you assessing the threat level two military installations out there right now and how far along are we in countering that? >> senator, we have seen an increase from last year in the number of detections over military installations over the course of the year.
▶ 2:23:28Gen. Donovan: Some of that might be due to the fact that we have four detection capability now than we did in the past and then our ability to defeat them as improved whereas a year ago almost everyone that was detected was not defeated. Now about one quarter of the ones that we detect we are able to defeat.
▶ 2:23:45Gen. Donovan: I pay attention to white men and other strategic bases whether submarine, silos or aircraft and work very closely with stratcom to make sure that either through the services or through our own capabilities, we are protecting those vital locations from ua s. >> if you could put me in the category of someone who is very supportive of efforts to increase our presence and footprint.
▶ 2:24:16Gen. Donovan: In greenland. It is vital for a bunch of different reasons. What are the designs that we might have for expansion given the strategic importance that it has. Where do you see that right now and why is that important? >> it is extremely important to us strategically and operationally for our command. We are supportive of expanding access to in cooperation with greenland and denmark.
▶ 2:24:44Gen. Donovan: I have a strong relationship with them and we are working to bring more capability there. What I would like to see added to what we have now which is primarily space and initial fire and take a response is more locations where we can do special applications will be more access in the maritime domain to build up our defensive approaches from the northeast approach to the north. >> thank you senator schmitt.
▶ 2:25:14Gen. Donovan: Senator rosen.
▶ 2:25:15Sen. Rosen: Thank you for holding this hearing. I would like to thank general guillot and general donovan not just for testifying today but for your service to the nation.
▶ 2:25:28Sen. Rosen: I want to start with you general guillot of critical infrastructure attackss multiple federal entities, civilian agencies including the cybersecurity and cisa and working with infrastructure owners. While the department of defense brings unique capabilities in cyber operation and homeland defense.
▶ 2:25:54Sen. Rosen: Countries like china and russia have demonstrated sophisticated cyber operations that can potentially disrupt power, transportation or communications networks inside the united states. Can you speak to how northern command fits into that framework and specifically what role does north comm in supporting critical infrastructure against cyber threats and how you coordinate these response abilities with other agencies?
▶ 2:26:23Sen. Rosen: >> defensive critical infrastructure happens to be one of the three or four main goals for our headquarters this year to improve our capability for all of the reasons that you mentioned. Starting with cyber we have a very strong working relationship with first cyber command, cisa and the fbi to make sure that it is a seamless defense of our networks not only within our own department but as it goes out into critical infrastructure and the defense industrial base
▶ 2:26:53Sen. Rosen: Because we need all of those entities to be free from cyber threats for us to be successful militarily in defending the homeland. We have a very strong relationship and we exercise with them to make sure that the cyber front that we identified and sharing information we have.
▶ 2:27:17Sen. Rosen: I think the defense critical infrastructure faces more threats than just cyber. There are certainly physical threats that they have and in that regard working very closely with the national guard from each state where they recently had their conference in colorado where we hosted and we made a pact this year to work with each state to see what critical infrastructure they felt they would protect and what they might need from title x forces
▶ 2:27:48Sen. Rosen: To augment that to make sure that we have seamless protection critical infrastructure in the physical domain and the cyber domain.
▶ 2:27:56Sen. Rosen: Thank you. In nevada we have lots of critical infrastructure. Hoover dam and others so thank you for that. General donovan, I want to move to you and talk about guantanamo bay because with the use of our naval base at guantanamo bay to house undocumented individuals detained in the united states, I have concerns about the delineation between the responsibilities of dod and I.c.e. And whether the military was ever made hole after footing the bill for the department of homeland security's mission.
▶ 2:28:28Sen. Rosen: General donovan for those who are deported and being held at guantanamo, our military personnel charged with guarding, caring and feeding them and if so, who was paying for it and what is the division between response abilities between dod and I.c.e.?
▶ 2:28:48Gen. Donovan: Our job is to ensure treatment of those ia at the facility. Currently those costs associated is not directed to south comm.
▶ 2:29:04Sen. Rosen: Do you have plans to hold people there for years if they cannot go back to their country of origin and again, about your manpower if you do that, resources, will yield to coming to us for that and can you speak to that at all?
▶ 2:29:22Gen. Donovan: Those are decisions that would be at the hs and above the secretary so we will carry out our responsibility in providing security.
▶ 2:29:31Sen. Rosen: I want to build on senator duckworth's remarks about d.o.d. Deployment to american cities. I am just concerned that our guardsmen are going to be placed in dangerous situations, deployed to patrol american cities while they are working in close proximity to I.c.e. And involved in sensitive community interactions.
▶ 2:29:57Sen. Rosen: What guidance has been provided to our guardsmen in order to avoid eroding trust in diverse communities where they are patrolling and what is the division of missions responsibility between d.o.d. And I.c.e. As it refers to our national guard.
▶ 2:30:15Gen. Guillot: At this time there are no guard forces under my command in any of the cities you mentioned but in the past we did have some under title x authorities. The first thing they are briefed when they come under title x is not so much what they can do but what they cannot do and that is they cannot execute any law enforcement activities even if they are a policeman in their civilian job or if they are military in the guard unit.
▶ 2:30:44Gen. Guillot: If they are under guard authorities, they are not allowed to execute any law enforcement activities that we gave in the past we had forces assigned to was. In regard to all of the guard forces operating in various cities, they are not under title x so they are not under my authority.
▶ 2:31:02Sen. Rosen: Thank you.
▶ 2:31:04Chair Reed: Thank you, senator rosen. Senator warren.
▶ 2:31:10Sen. Warren: Thank you. President trump and secretary hegseth are repeatedly dragging the U.S. military across both legal and moral lines. Trump and hegseth have plunged us into an illegal war with iran where a U.S. air strike appears to have killed 150 school children. It is not just in iran.
▶ 2:31:33Sen. Warren: Under trump and hegseth the military fired on civilians and shipwrecked survivors in the caribbean and now secretary hegseth is threatening to give "no quarter" to adversaries. This is not who we are. Our enemies might not care about civilian casualties but the U.S. military always has.
▶ 2:31:59Sen. Warren: That is why secretary hegseth's attacks on the guard rails that prevent civilian harm and civilian casualties is so dangerous. Now more than ever we need strong independent military lawyers. But there are serious concerns that jags cannot give honest legal advice.
▶ 2:32:27Sen. Warren: General guillot, have you seen any evidence of the jagged core being sidelined whether at north com or elsewhere in the department?
▶ 2:32:37Gen. Guillot: I have not seen any evidence of the jags being sidelined. Our jag is included in all of our meetings and in fact it is sitting behind me right now.
▶ 2:32:51Sen. Warren: I just want you to know I am glad to hear that. Glad to hear it is not happening in your command but we know this is a problem across the department. Secretary hegseth fired two jags because he thought that they were roadblocks and he installed his personal lawyer to retrain military lawyers to water down constraints.
▶ 2:33:18Sen. Warren: He reassigned hundreds of jags to work on trump's radical immigration agenda and last week the secretary said he is starting a ruthless overhaul of the jags system. For decades military lawyers have worked side-by-side with officers to make sure that strikes are lawful and that they minimize civilian casualties. That does not make us weaker.
▶ 2:33:46Sen. Warren: It saves innocent lives and it prevents fueling terrorism. But secretary hegseth has blamed jags for what he calls "stupid rules of engagement." general donovan, let me ask you. If a jag or a civilian harm advisor asks to distinguish between an a military base and elementary school for an air strike, is that a stupid rule of engagement?
▶ 2:34:14Gen. Donovan: No, senator.
▶ 2:34:17Sen. Warren: Jags cannot give their best advice if they are afraid of losing their job just for raising legal concerns with an operation. One way we protect the integrity of legal advice in our military is by creating for cause removal protections for our jags. Commanders also need to be speak up when they are being asked to break the law.
▶ 2:34:40Sen. Warren: General donovan, your predecessor was reportedly ousted because he raised concerns about the legality of the caribbean boat strikes. Will you commit to informing this committee if southcom is directed to do something that you or your jag thinks is illegal?
▶ 2:35:04Sen. Warren: >> my first obligation if I face what I believe is an unlawful order is to seek legal counsel, discuss that with headquarters and move forward and not carry out.
▶ 2:35:17Sen. Warren: Maybe you did not hear my question. My question was what you commit to informing this committee if southcom is directed to do something that you or your jag thinks is illegal.
▶ 2:35:31Gen. Donovan: If I reported that to this committee, it would be my chain of command.
▶ 2:35:36Sen. Warren: But you would make sure that we got the information?
▶ 2:35:39Gen. Donovan: I would report to my chain of command.
▶ 2:35:41Sen. Warren: And you do not take any responsibility for making sure we got that information, you do realize we have oversight response abilities here?
▶ 2:35:49Gen. Donovan: I would work that information through my chain of command.
▶ 2:35:53Sen. Warren: That is a very concerning answer. What is happening right now is very dangerous. We need our nonpartisan military leaders to double down on their commitment to following the law and speaking up when they are asked to break it. Congress needs to be able to step in and rein in this lawless commander-in-chief and his self-styled secretary of war. Thank you.
▶ 2:36:19Chair Reed: I think we have another series of questions.
▶ 2:36:26Sen. Reed: One question. General donovan you noted twice that you repeated every single execution related to the boat strikes. Just to confirm, it was important to you to you for your understanding and oversight of these strikes to review these export documents. Is that correct?
▶ 2:36:46Gen. Donovan: Yes, senator.
▶ 2:36:48Chair Reed: Thank you. Mr. chairman, I would like to get that there is legal requirement for the department to provide those exports to the committee which you and I have requested multiple times including letters to the secretary of defense, section 1744 of the fy 20 nda requires you to provide the exports at the request of the committee.
▶ 2:37:19Chair Reed: In fy 25 section 10.67 it requires d.o.d. To provide a copy of any new or revised documents in 15 days. The secretary has not fulfilled this legal requirement. Your testimony general donovan further confirms in my mind that we need these documents to understand and oversee. That is our role, oversee these operations.
▶ 2:37:49Chair Reed: For the record I want to make that very clear.
▶ 2:37:50Gen. Donovan: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:37:53Chair Wicker: Thank you, senator reed. If there is nothing further, let's reconvene at 12:10. Will that be all right, gentlemen? And we are recessed until then. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]