▶ 0:16:45Chair Moran: Budget request for the department of commerce and I welcome you back. I look forward to hearing about your priorities and your plans to achieve them under this president's budget request outlined in brief documents transmitted to congress earlier this month and further clarified published this week proposing a mix of increases and cuts across several bureaus.
▶ 0:17:06Chair Moran: At the request proposes a 12.2% reduction in budget authority for the department and its bureaus including a $1.6 billion reduction in noaa and extension partnerships at the national institute of standards and technology in the face elimination of economic development administration. The proposed elimination of the hollings partnership is concerning.
▶ 0:17:32Chair Moran: This is a program that is popular, well used, received bipartisan support, and service many small and medium-sized manufacturers in my home state of kansas and across the country. For many of these, it is the only on the ground support to modernize, compete, and keep jobs in their community. We need clear answers on how the department plans to support these manufacturers if the program is eliminated. I visited communities in miami and franklin county in eastern kansas.
▶ 0:18:01Chair Moran: That was my visit following the severe tornadoes. I look forward to hearing more about the steps that the department through the national weather service is making to ensure a full staffing at local weather forecast offices. We will also discuss increases across the department including the U.S. census bureau as it prepares for its 2030 and at the international trade authority and bureau to support trade enforcement and export controls that protect our national and economic security. Additionally I look forward to an update, Mr. secretary.
▶ 0:18:32Chair Moran: I think we should have had an update prior to now based upon your commitment the last time that we were together in february. But I look forward to an update today on the remaining 20 one billion in nondeployed bead funding, including progress since the february hearing and how the department plans to move forward with these resources. Sec. Lutnick, thank you for your test on today.
▶ 0:18:55Chair Moran: I look forward to working with you throughout the appropriations process to ensure the department of commerce and its bureaus have the right level of federal resources to carry out its mission. I look forward to working with the subcommittee and full committee to accomplish this goal. Senator van hollen. You are recognized for your opening statement.
▶ 0:19:12Sen. Van Hollen: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. secretary, I feel compelled to start where we left off the last time you were here in february, because you failed to respond to inquiries that we've made since that time. At that time he had just come to light and you had totally misled the american people about certain aspects of your relationship with jeffrey epstein. I asked you then if you would provide the committee with all records of your interactions with jeffrey epstein.
▶ 0:19:41Sen. Van Hollen: You said you would consider it and you had "nothing to hide." senator merkley and I subsequently sent you a letter on february 27 asking if you would provide those documents and presenting certain questions. We have not heard a thing since then. I think the american people deserve transparency.
▶ 0:20:02Sen. Van Hollen: You also failed to respond to a letter that I sent you on february 25 along with senators wyden and moran regarding the agreement brokered by the department of commerce in which the U.S. government provided funding for and acquire an ownership stake in U.S. rare earth metals, minerals. Announced in conjunction with a 1.5 billion dollar private fundraising effort.
▶ 0:20:30Sen. Van Hollen: For that company brokered by your former firm, cantor fitzgerald. We presented a number of questions to you in that letter. Haven't gotten a response. You've also failed to answer questions for the record that we submitted after the hearing the chairman mentioned on february 20, including basic questions regarding the bead program.
▶ 0:20:56Sen. Van Hollen: The committee is yet to receive the fy 26 noaa spending plan which was due over a month ago. There is obviously a pattern here. Failure to respond to basic inquiries. That means rather than only look forward we will have to revisit some of the issues that could have been addressed earlier. With regard to the fiscal year 27 budget, the plan before us today, it is like a rerun of a pad moving.
▶ 0:21:25Sen. Van Hollen: You proposed eliminating the economic -- and the manufacturing extension partnership. You also proposed last year cutting funding for the national institutes of standards and technologies and the national oceanic and atmospheric administration, and the international trade administration.
▶ 0:21:47Sen. Van Hollen: Congress rejected those proposals then on a bipartisan basis because they would have undermined the very economic competitiveness and innovation this administration claims to champion. What does the proposal due from the same thing as last year. Eda proposed to be eliminated. In bda eliminated, the manufacturing extension program, eliminated.
▶ 0:22:18Sen. Van Hollen: Nist and noaa cut. These proposed cuts to economic development programs,'s consumer sentiment has fallen to 47.6%, the lowest reading in the 74 year history of the university of michigan survey, lower than the worst of the great recession, the worst of the post-covid inflation crisis.
▶ 0:22:47Sen. Van Hollen: These proposed cuts arrive as inflation hit three point 3%, the highest level in two years. Gas prices are way up. Gdp growth in the fourth quarter of last year came in at just .5%. On trade, the illegal tariffs cost the american people $166 billion, estimated $1700 on average per american family. They haven't gotten their money back.
▶ 0:23:17Sen. Van Hollen: Mr. secretary, you would think we would see a budget that supports trade and economic growth, not one that would make things worse. Not one that this committee rejected on a bipartisan basis. So, I hope, Mr. chairman, that the committee is once again able to work on a bipartisan basis here and put together a budget that meets the needs of the american people. I do look forward to your testimony, Mr. secretary, and of the questions.
▶ 0:23:51Chair Moran: Sec. Lutnick, you are now recognized for your testimony. Welcome.
▶ 0:23:53Sec. Lutnick: Thank you. Chairman moran, ranking member van hollen, members of the subcommittee, it's an honor to join you today. Over the past 15 months president trump has proven that the american economy is the strongest and most resilient in the world. When businesses look for places to expand manufacturing, drive innovation, and hire more workers they decisively are choosing the united states.
▶ 0:24:21Sec. Lutnick: Macron, $200 billion investment in memory semiconductor manufacturing in idaho, new york, and virginia. Tsmc advanced manufacturing investment in america's semiconductor logic sector. Texas instruments' $6 billion investment for seven U.S.
▶ 0:24:43Sec. Lutnick: Semiconductor fabs across three manufacturing mega-sites in texas and utah are just a few examples of the trump administration's commitment to driving semiconductor investment in bringing jobs back to the united states. I can spend our entire time together listing the record-setting commitments, company after company, industry after industry have made to build in america.
▶ 0:25:06Sec. Lutnick: Trillions of dollars of capital investment are pouring into america led by president trump in the united states department of commerce. I'm proud of the leadership role the department of commerce has played in providing the support and encouragement these businesses need to revive american manufacturing, and we've only just begun.
▶ 0:25:26Sec. Lutnick: Over the past few months alone the department of commerce has announced multiple $50 million plus record-setting critical energy investments across the country, from pennsylvania and georgia to texas and tennessee, that will accelerate economic growth, insure U.S. energy dominance, bolster critical supply chains, and strengthen U.S. national and economic security.
▶ 0:25:50Sec. Lutnick: In addition to the massive historic trade agreements with korea and taiwan, the impressive 550 billion dollar trade deal with the japan has announced a six projects in the last six months. Up to 40 billion dollars for small modular nuclear reactors in both tennessee and alabama. 33 billion dollars for nine point two gigawatts natural gas fired power plant in ohio.
▶ 0:26:18Sec. Lutnick: $17 billion for natural gas fired power generation held in southwest pennsylvania. 16 billion dollars for another natural gas-fired power generation hub in east texas. In addition, $2 billion for deepwater crude oil export terminal in the gulf of america and the critical high pressure high temperature synthetic diamond grit facility, which we need, and georgia.
▶ 0:26:44Sec. Lutnick: Last month secretary wright and I were in southern ohio to break ground on the 9.2 gigawatts natural gas facility. The project will develop the largest natural gas facility in history. It will lower electricity costs across the region, create thousands of american jobs, and strengthen national security and help the U.S. meet the energy needs of the future. Beyond these historic investments, the department of commerce continues to come around the clock, implement president trump's america first trade policy.
▶ 0:27:14Sec. Lutnick: Under section two the commerce department is taking action on steel, aluminum, copper, pharmaceuticals, autos, and semiconductors, and we are investigating other sectors to make sure that we protect, reassure, and revitalize manufacturing capacity across our critical industries. These actions have led to multibillion-dollar commitments to reshore american excellence and critical industries.
▶ 0:27:47Sec. Lutnick: He has lowered imports and increased exports to over 3.4 trillion dollars, a six percent increase from 2024. October 2025 the trade deficit was the lowest we've had in 16 years. I'm tremendously proud of the lead role that I've played in negotiating our most important trade deals, including the largest deal ever negotiated with the european union.
▶ 0:28:12Sec. Lutnick: It works hand in hand with the department of health and homeland services, arranged historic agreements to lower our cost of drugs and most favored nation deals, and I'm happy to report that the pharmaceutical industry has committed $400 billion to america.
▶ 0:28:31Sec. Lutnick: Ita has helped boeing, lab tech, and lead 240 $4 billion of contracts for america as compared to the by compared to the biden administration. For too long america was mired in the status quo leaving unfair poorly implemented trade agreements and paltry investments.
▶ 0:28:53Sec. Lutnick: President trump is committed to ushering in a golden age of domestic commerce, bringing jobs back to the united states, and that's exactly what he's done in the first 15 months of this administration. I look forward to working with the U.S. the department continues to spur economic growth and secure unprecedented prosperity.
▶ 0:29:12Chair Moran: We begin with where we left off in february. I was expecting something concrete from the department at the february 10 hearing. You committed to using the remaining bead nondeployed funds and conduct listening sessions with stakeholders to determine the best used.
▶ 0:29:37Chair Moran: My impression from that hearing was that those funds will be utilized to make certain that there is connectivity, broadband availability to all americans, and that you would conduct listening sessions to help determine the best way to accomplish that goal. During those listening sessions, staff indicated that guidance would be issued by march 11 following stakeholder engagements.
▶ 0:30:09Chair Moran: That guidance has not yet been released. Additionally, senator collins and senator fischer and I submitted a letter to you on march 5 regarding bead funding, talking about an available round of broadband deployment, and we have yet to receive a response. Could you provide us with an update and perhaps something more than "soon" in your response?
▶ 0:30:36Sec. Lutnick: Sure. I'm glad to talk about high-class problems that we have. The department of commerce rebid the bead program. We have 54 states and territories done. I think 46 literally signed the documents in our drawing money and the rest have the documents, they are just finishing up the documents.
▶ 0:31:03Sec. Lutnick: These are states and territories drawing down on the execution of the plan for the first $21 billion. On the redeployment money we have 21 billion dollars remaining. We held listening sessions over 1000 people attended, 280 comments. We are sorting through those comments and trying to determine the plan, which we will go over with the administration. Unfortunately, the answer is it will come shortly. But that is the plan.
▶ 0:31:30Chair Moran: Thank you for not using the word soon. Next time, don't tell me the answer is soon or shortly. Mr. secretary, so what do you expect? Perhaps you are still going through the details, analyzing those comments, which is what we would expect you to do, but what do you think the plan is going to be?
▶ 0:31:54Chair Moran: Are these dollars going to be spent for purposes of deploying broadband in the united states to customers that would not otherwise be served?
▶ 0:32:03Sec. Lutnick: It is our objective to make sure that the funds are used state-by-state broadly across our great nation to help americans with respect to broadband and within the statute which you've written. We will adhere to the statute that has been written in the moneys will be deployed across our great nation.
▶ 0:32:28Chair Moran: Mr. secretary, I worried in the last hearing and I worried in your answer today that you will follow the laws of the statute. That doesn't sound like something I should be worried about, but there is a catchall provision in a list of things that are permissible. The very last one would suggest you have significant discretion in this regard. And I will state to you and for the record that I'm worried.
▶ 0:32:53Chair Moran: I would hope that you do not use the last catchall phrase to do something other than broadband deployment. When you tell me that you're going to follow the statute, I cannot complain about you following the statute, but I would certainly suggest, hope, encourage, insist the money be used, because I'm absolutely certain that even though we have deployed a significant billions of dollars in broadband development support, there are plenty of kansans and americans who will be unserved or
▶ 0:33:29Chair Moran: Underserved and at significant challenge connecting with the rest of the world if the last $21 is diverted somewhere else.
▶ 0:33:34Sec. Lutnick: I am in complete agreement with you that our objective is to cover americans' broadband needs. We set out to do that working with the states. Your state did an excellent job. Tried to cover everything. If there are still places that need to be covered, I'm happy to work with your staff to come up with the right way to cover them. But we have a high-class problem.
▶ 0:33:58Sec. Lutnick: We've done a great job in executing this plan, and we have the ability to cover everyone in broadband and do other things that will be exceptional for america.
▶ 0:34:08Chair Moran: I will take you up on your offer for your team and our staff to sit down and we will try to give you examples, places where we think broadband could be improved and deployed in our state. Senator van hollen.
▶ 0:34:22Sen. Van Hollen: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I'm informed, Mr. secretary, last night we did get the fiscal year 26 noaa spend the plan. That makes you one out of four in terms of responses.
▶ 0:34:40Sen. Van Hollen: So, I am going to go back to requests and letters that were not responded to, because you did say at the last hearing with respect to the epstein affair that you had "nothing to hide." I assume that is still your testimony today, right, Mr. secretary?
▶ 0:34:58Sec. Lutnick: That's right.
▶ 0:35:01Sen. Van Hollen: Why have you not responded to the letter that senator merkley and I sent, following up on the last hearing, asking for documents just to be transparent about the situation and answering the questions that we presented in that letter?
▶ 0:35:22Sec. Lutnick: The last time that we were together I agreed and answered every question on that topic in this committee. I answered each and every topic. I have voluntarily agreed in less than two weeks to sit and answer questions on this topic, fully, whatever questions are asked of me voluntarily in less than two weeks with your house colleagues.
▶ 0:35:48Sec. Lutnick: I would ask if there are any questions you want me to answer, please give them to house colleagues and I'm going to enter the mall. But I'm here -- I'm going to answer them all. But I'm here today to talk about the budget. I am volunteering within two weeks to answer any and all questions on this topic.
▶ 0:36:08Sen. Van Hollen: Mr. secretary, I am aware of that. We presented you with questions and requests from this committee that have not been responded to. So, we are going to have to continue pursuing that. We will follow closely what happens in that proceeding. I hope you will provide them with the materials that we hope to secure here as well.
▶ 0:36:37Sen. Van Hollen: Again, the reason I am asking this question at this hearing is because we didn't get a response to the letter. No response at all that earlier letter. The other letter we haven't gotten a response to relates to the issue, as I mentioned, of the U.S. commerce department decision to take a U.S. government stake in U.S.
▶ 0:37:04Sen. Van Hollen: Rare earth at $1.6 billion in federal support. According to reports, the rare earths ceo publicly said that this deal originated in a november 2020 five conversation between yourself and herself with no formal application, public solicitation, and competitive process. Is that accurate?
▶ 0:37:32Sec. Lutnick: I met the executives of usa rare earth introduced to me by a gentleman named ken mullis who is a famous banker.
▶ 0:37:47Sec. Lutnick: He brought the deal to us because it was well known that china has weaponized rare earth's and minerals against the country and it is a very important to the united states to unleash our ability to do rare earths, critical minerals, and magnets. Usa rare earth has a mine to magnet integrated model. That's interesting.
▶ 0:38:17Sec. Lutnick: It was presented to me by ken mullis and then I introduce them to the chip's team to pursue the transaction.
▶ 0:38:25Sen. Van Hollen: Have no complaint with the decision to take some U.S. ownership stake in exchange for the investment, something some of us encouraged the biden administration to do in strategic sectors like this one.
▶ 0:38:40Sen. Van Hollen: It is more the lack of transparency process under which this deal took place because before that transaction I understand that this company's total federal contracting history was worth less than 100,000 dollars.
▶ 0:38:58Sen. Van Hollen: As you well know, it coincided with the fact that your previous firm, cantor fitzgerald, helped arrange the transaction on the other side of the deal, on the private investment side, which raises considerable conflict of interest concerns. Can you respond to the letter? Will you respond to the letter by the end of the month that we sent that lays out some of these questions?
▶ 0:39:26Sec. Lutnick: I will take another look at the letter to see if we can work together to resolve --
▶ 0:39:32Sen. Van Hollen: I would appreciate that, Mr. secretary. I want to look at this year's budget, too. The challenge we've got here is when we present few questions -- the chairman mentioned at some things that he has asked about, and we get no answers. That's a real problem.
▶ 0:39:53Sen. Van Hollen: It means that we are going to spend more time focusing on the things that you didn't respond to when we want to focus on the future.
▶ 0:40:06Chair Moran: Senator capito.
▶ 0:40:09Sen. Capito: Thank you, Mr. secretary, for being here. I won't ask another bead question. I think every time you've, I've asked that question, but I want to say that I heartily agree with what the chairman is saying. I will talk with my broadband council folks tomorrow. I wish that I could give them something more specific on the non-deployment funds.
▶ 0:40:35Sen. Capito: As soon as that comes, and I hope it will adhere -- there are going to be places that are left uncovered and there will be of the structure needs to be built and to support the new structures of the future to keep everybody connected into the future. So, I hope those non-deployment funds can stay within our respective states. I'm anxious to hear how you do that. I appreciate that. I wanted to ask about noaa.
▶ 0:41:04Sen. Capito: You mentioned in your written statement. You said 130 $5 million increase above an acted level for no-no's shipbuilding and unmanned systems. They have an aging fleet and rising repair needs and they are new and low cost rapidly deployable technologies, unmanned systems, that are currently available.
▶ 0:41:26Sen. Capito: How do you -- we asked you to exclusively in the 2026 bill direct noaa to integrate autonomous platform so I'm glad to see you are accelerating that. What execution plan do you have. What capabilities are you prioritizing?
▶ 0:41:43Sec. Lutnick: We are excited about the prospects we have been discussing on unmanned. The idea of having a hurricane hunter plane fly into hurricanes with people on them that are older planes just didn't make sense. So, we explored what is the department of war and other agencies and the government using? We found aircraft that they have already ordered they are using.
▶ 0:42:13Sec. Lutnick: We can fill them with our sensors and get better data at wildly less money and have wildly less risk because we don't have to have a person in there. We are excited because these vehicles can live inside the hurricane and stay there with less risk and give us better data. We are excited about the way technology will improve our safety of the american people going forward.
▶ 0:42:42Sec. Lutnick: And I'm going to make sure that is what, when I leave this office at the end of my term, I will make sure the american people are much safer and they are using technology the best we possibly can.
▶ 0:42:54Sen. Capito: We will have great results and I appreciate that. The manufacturing extension program used by small and medium-sized businesses and manufacturers, certainly in our state, helps us with technical specialists and allows our businesses to compete globally. The budget, again, suggested severe cuts to the program. I believe it did last year but we restored those. What can you tell me about the manufacturing extension program?
▶ 0:43:24Sec. Lutnick: The awards are given out quarterly. They continue basically the same. Every quarter they come out and we are extreme -- we are distributing the money. The inspector general reports were very critical of the way that these programs have been run in the past. They said it wasn't accurate what they said they were using the money for. They were overpaying.
▶ 0:43:53Sec. Lutnick: These hubs were overpaying the executives and there were all sorts of problems. We want to clean those problems. Remember, this program was set up in the late 1980's. Really high-tech advanced manufacturing is better now. I think we need to reimagine it. I would like to together talk about how to reimagine it. I think that would be effective.
▶ 0:44:15Sen. Capito: Have you begun to do that now or is that something into the future?
▶ 0:44:21Sec. Lutnick: A few appropriate funds we will do that. Of course we thought about it. You did appropriate funds last year. We need to do it better. If you appropriate funds to us, because it is advanced manufacturing and america has -- president trump said $18 trillion of advanced manufacturing coming. If you appropriate funds we will do it effectively and efficiently and really think about it. I would love to work with your team to re-examine the way to do that.
▶ 0:44:53Sen. Capito: Congratulations on the announcements of a lot of the energy development. I just noticed one glaring problem. You are in ohio and pennsylvania and alabama. There is at least one state, two states, three states missing from that list. We look forward to seeing you spread that around.
▶ 0:45:14Sen. Capito: As you probably know I have been very involved in my other responsibilities over on the environment and public works committee working with my democrat counterparts they are to try to come together for permitting reform a bipartisan bill which many of the projects that you are working on and can expand to would really be -- it would benefit greatly from us coming together on that.
▶ 0:45:37Thank You Chair Moran: Very much. Senator and others on the committee, my suggestion based on the secretary's response to your question is that we invite the inspector general to come visit with us and learn about any challenges that the inspector general finds on the program. As they exist we will fix them. I think there is broad support for getting -- if there is something wrong in the organization of the program, we want to fix it.
▶ 0:46:05Thank You Chair Moran: We will get the information necessary for members of the subcommittee and community to have an understanding of the challenges the program faces. Senator shaheen.
▶ 0:46:17Sen. Shaheen: Thank you, great idea, Mr. chairman. Thank you, Mr. secretary, for being here today. According to the world travel and tourism council last year the united states saw 5.5% decline in international visitors. We were the only major economy to see any decline. In my home state of new hampshire, tourism is the second largest industry by revenue and it supports a 70,000 jobs. Canada has long been our largest share of foreign visitors.
▶ 0:46:48Sen. Shaheen: Last year we saw a 30 percent drop in canadian tourism, largely due to the loss of trust and goodwill because of this administration's rhetoric around canada. Sec. Lutnick, last week you said about canada's economic strategy, and I quote, "they suck." I believe your spokesperson then said this was about canada's economy leeching off of the U.S.
▶ 0:47:15Sen. Shaheen: How does insulting our closest ally and neighbor help the businesses in my state of new hampshire, and states all across this country who are hurting because of the loss of canadian businesses and tourism?
▶ 0:47:28Sec. Lutnick: Canada's economy leans on the incredible 30 trillion dollar economy of america.
▶ 0:47:40Sen. Shaheen: No doubt, but insulting our closest ally and neighbor, who provides a lot of business, we have a lot of businesses in new hampshire, small businesses who work on both sides of the border. We have all of those canadian visitors who are not coming because of your comments and comments by the administration. How does that help our economy?
▶ 0:48:02Sec. Lutnick: It is outrageous that canada will not put U.S. spirits on the shelf. It is insulting. And disrespectful to america --
▶ 0:48:18Sen. Shaheen: And my husband has an interest in a company that has american spirits. They won't do it because of the insults from this president and the like yours. I want to go on to another question.
▶ 0:48:30Sec. Lutnick: Can I have one small comment? Dairy is treated so badly. Your state cares about dairy and we are trying desperately to get them to live to the deal that they have on usmca and stop treating our dairy farmers to so poorly. Your state cares about that. We are fighting for that.
▶ 0:48:50Sen. Shaheen: We do, but we are not going to get agreement when we are keeping insulting people. When we have allies and partners we should try to work with them, not insult them. And I find your rhetoric insulting to the people in my state who are working so hard to try to ensure that they can do business. I want to move on to bead and the non-deployment funds.
▶ 0:49:16Sen. Shaheen: Secretary lutnick, as I said, the last time that you were here senator collins and I lead the negotiations around the bipartisan infrastructure law and those broadband provisions. When we enacted bead into law as chairman moran said, we understood that any remaining funds after broadband deployment would be used for adoption.
▶ 0:49:40Sen. Shaheen: New hampshire was promised nearly 200 million dollars in bead funding, yet only $18.6 million has been awarded for deployment. That means that new hampshire has nearly 180 million dollars left for non-deployment activities. When can we expect guidance from an tia on how states can spend the estimated 21 billion dollars in remaining non-deployment bead funds?
▶ 0:50:11Sec. Lutnick: We finished our listening tour, we took the comments, 280 comments and 1000 people who spoke to us, we are narrowing the gap, we will make sure that we are covering all broadband access. We will have it planned, a plan that we would be happy to discuss with you in the coming months.
▶ 0:50:29Sen. Shaheen: Do you have a deadline for when you are hoping to get that plane to us?
▶ 0:50:34Sec. Lutnick: Mike -
▶ 0:50:43Sec. Lutnick: Mike -- 54 states and territories executed in and out the door finally. This is getting the money out the door. I would expect over the next two months we will have a plan in place and we will be happy to discuss it with you.
▶ 0:50:58Sen. Shaheen: I have a few seconds left. In your confirmation hearing last year you said that the united states needed to stop china from using our tools to compete with us and you specifically called out U.S. companies for advancing beijing's ai ambitions. Since then the administration has allowed powerful chips to be exported to china.
▶ 0:51:22Sen. Shaheen: Can you assure us today that the administration is going to stop those chip sales to china that would advance its military modernization? We heard yesterday at the armed services committee from an admiral who expressed concern about china being able to access those advanced chips.
▶ 0:51:45Sec. Lutnick: There is a delicate balance in the relationship with china. President trump has the best relationship with president xi, and he balances that. I want to be crystal clear. We are not selling our best chips to china under any circumstance. We are not even selling the best scale of chips. They are called block well. Not even that brand. This is multi-years ago.
▶ 0:52:14Sec. Lutnick: There is a balance, and I understand the president understands it the best, and he is trying to balance in between. They have not bought any as of today.
▶ 0:52:23Sen. Shaheen: I'm out of time, Mr. secretary, but I would urge you to look at the intelligence on the chips, because that is not what the intelligence says about what we are selling to china. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:52:37Chair Moran: Thank you. We are graced by the presence of the full committee chairman. I recognize senator collins.
▶ 0:52:46Sen. Collins: Thank you. Welcome, secretary lutnick. It's good to see you. It probably won't surprise you that my first two questions have to do with the lobster industry. I want to thank you for joining with the department of agriculture in putting the spotlight on american produced seafood and recognizing the need for more help in that area.
▶ 0:53:17Sen. Collins: As you're well aware, in fiscal year 22 congress included language in the appropriations legislation that imposed a moratorium through 2028 on new noaa regulations affecting the american lobster fishery to provide more time for additional research and data collection on the north atlantic right whale and to prevent essentially what
▶ 0:53:49Sen. Collins: Would have occurred, the closure of the lobster fishery. With a moratorium on write whale regulations set to expire noaa must begin the rulemaking process. I'm asking for your commitment to ensure that ■the department will work with the lobster secretary. They are the best stewards imaginable.
▶ 0:54:18Sen. Collins: Also with me and the rest of the maine and new hampshire delegation to ensure that future regulatory actions will fully incorporate the population data for right whales, real-time monitoring technologies, and region specific risk assessments rather than relying on outdated assumptions that may no longer
▶ 0:54:49Sen. Collins: Reflect the actual right will distribution or fishing patterns.
▶ 0:54:55Sec. Lutnick: I hope to be considered the greatest friend of the lobstermen. Who are a great asset. You know I think they are a great asset to our country.
▶ 0:55:10Sec. Lutnick: I had the pleasure when I was last in the united kingdom of going out and having them serve us maine lobster in the united kingdom. It was important because we opened that market. It had never been done before. This was opening that market for our great lobster fishermen.
▶ 0:55:29Sec. Lutnick: We promise you we will use the best data, the most precise data, to make sure that our decisions are right for america, and they need to be right for the lobster men of maine. Clearly we should not be using outdated data. We should use the best data and make sure that we are protected, doing the right thing, for our great lobster men.
▶ 0:55:54Sen. Shaheen: Thank you for that commitment and for what you've already done. I want to mention a specific technology that the department has been pushing. It is called ropeless gear. The problem is, it remains prohibitively expensive and it is very challenging from an operational perspective, particularly for our smaller lobster boats.
▶ 0:56:24Sen. Shaheen: Lobster men and women have also stated to me that the technology poses safety risks to them. What investments is noaa making an alternative scalable risk reduction technologies, such as weak links so that the line can break, reduced timeline lenths, enhanced gear market, and
▶ 0:56:54Sen. Shaheen: Real-time tracking systems which could achieve the kinds of meaningful conservation and protected benefits for the right whale without putting our small boat operators at risk or putting them out of business because of the cost of this rope lists gear -- wroteless gear. We shouldn't just focus on one kind of technology. The industry has all sorts of ideas.
▶ 0:57:26Sen. Shaheen: I hope that you will commit to looking beyond just ropeless ge ar.
▶ 0:57:32Sec. Lutnick: That is an easy commitment for us. We will never pick just one winter. -- one winner. The key to america's great innovation. Someone who comes up with an interesting idea that's very expensive, I understand that may be for some big lobster boats that would be great. But you need to cover all of america.
▶ 0:57:57Sec. Lutnick: And I am happy to engage with you to make sure that we are examining all ways we can be better, and there needs to be economically reasonable ways. Everything cannot be, that is a good idea but it is darn expensive. That is not the american way and it is not the department of commerce's way, and it is not noaa's way.
▶ 0:58:21Sen. Collins: Thank you for those words and that commitment. Finally, the proposed budget would eliminate the economic development administration. Eda has been such an important source of investment in maine. It supported our working waterfronts. It helped our small businesses.
▶ 0:58:44Sen. Collins: It has been an economic engine and a lot of our smaller communities, particularly in rural maine. These investments are critical to sustaining small businesses, support infrastructure, and support job growth and economic development..
▶ 0:59:09Sen. Collins: With the proposed elimination of the eda, which I hope this committee will reject -- but if it is to be eliminated, how would the department plan to ensure continued federal support for rural projects in states like maine?
▶ 0:59:30Sec. Lutnick: I think engaging with you and your staff to help us design, if you approve great it, design the model the best we can to make sure we are covering the areas, rural, suburban, and make sure that we are doing the best job we can. I would like to engage with you and your staff to make sure that the money appropriated is reconsidered, reimagined, and done the best it possibly can.
▶ 0:59:59Sen. Collins: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:00:04Chair Moran: Thank you, chairman collins.
▶ 1:00:10Sen. Schatz: I have a narrow question about bead. Hawaii is different. A friend of mine who is a political operative came to hawaii and said everyplace as they are different and that is only true in hawaii and louisiana.
▶ 1:00:26Sen. Collins: And maine.
▶ 1:00:26Sen. Schatz: But then you have alaska and alabama -- I understand. I will be precise. For us, middle mile entails from island to island. I want you to acknowledge the geographic and topographic difference so that we are not stuck trying to do that middle mile for the non-deployment funds.
▶ 1:00:50Sen. Schatz: Then we have technicians who are thinking about the continental united states and do not acknowledge the physical realities of hawaii are different. Can I have your commitment to bird dog that particular narrow issue?
▶ 1:01:01Sec. Lutnick: That is a fair issue for us to deeply consider. I appreciate you putting it out and I will make sure our team is on it and we have a full discussion on that topic. That makes sense to me.
▶ 1:01:12Sen. Schatz: In january of this year, significant water damage was incurred from a burst pipe. You've already been helpful. There may be mold and mildew but do I have your commitment to watch this issue and give noaa and the regional center whatever they need?
▶ 1:01:34Sec. Lutnick: I will be happy to examine it with you and make sure that we understand the problems in the best way to address them.
▶ 1:01:40Sen. Schatz: I want to ask you about the executive order tasking the commerce department to evaluate whether state ai laws are onerous and burdensome. I think that the question I have -- first of all, I don't like preemption, generally. I think if we are going to do preemption we should legislate in the space of ai rather than just tell the states that they may not take any action.
▶ 1:02:08Sen. Schatz: But I'm worried about the onerous and burdensome standard but is it gives a fair amount of -- not just flexibility, but a lack of clarity to a state legislature. And is the judiciary chairman from the missouri state house supposed to call the ola at the commerce department and say, is this odorous and burdensome? If we do an ai disclosure requirement, try to protect kids here, if we are doing ai education there?
▶ 1:02:37Sen. Schatz: How does anyone in a state legislature or estate department of commerce equivalent determine what is onerous and burdensome? Do they have to mother may I the commerce department? Do they take a swing at it and find out after the fact? How are we going to do this?
▶ 1:02:54Sec. Lutnick: I think the challenge is each state comes out with its own state of rules. It becomes a patchwork of impossible outcomes.
▶ 1:03:04Sen. Schatz: I understand the point of view. I'm asking, how does one figure out if they are in compliance if you are a state policymaker? Is the standard, don't legislate or do any policymaking in the ai space lest it be considered owners and burdensome? Do you have a rubric for those considerations?
▶ 1:03:23Sen. Schatz: How does a sincere lawmaker try to be in compliance with the coo if they are a state legislator?
▶ 1:03:36Sec. Lutnick: We should come up with best practices so we don't have a patchwork that makes ai execution impossible across america. And we should work together to do that.
▶ 1:03:46Sen. Schatz: You had a march 11 deadline outlined by the eoo directing the department to come up with, essentially, a framework. I'm wondering how anyone is supposed to comply with this. I get the principal. Everyone talks about a patchwork not working in the tech space. I sometimes agree but it is what it is. I'm telling you, secretary.
▶ 1:04:14Sen. Schatz: I'm not sure anyone knows how to comply with this except not do anything. If that is not your intent we need to get some clarity. You and I had a very constructive criticism privately and publicly about the census, and you wanted to count every person in the united states. Not every citizen, but every person as the constitution provides.
▶ 1:04:42Sen. Schatz: We may have some minor disagreements about other things, but I want to specifically talk about the idea of using the postal service to help conduct the census. Gao said the obvious stuff, letter carriers are not trained to do this. Letter carriers have different standards for confidentiality. Letter carriers get paid reasonably well compared to census workers. That was my intuition and then I read the gao study and it confirm that.
▶ 1:05:12Sen. Schatz: Why do we think that this is a good idea? It seems it will be very expensive. Also, should have led with this, it will probably delay the delivery of mail. I don't understand why we like this idea.
▶ 1:05:26Sec. Lutnick: Normally, the census would hire a hundred thousand people, pay them by the hour, train them. They do not wear a uniform. They try to find out where americans live.
▶ 1:05:44Sec. Lutnick: Rent them cars, pay their gas, buy them handheld devices, send them out, then they will knock on your door which will cause your heart to beat a couple of times when someone is knocking on your door that you don't know. Compared to the postal service, we have a test case coming in 2026 which we will do together, they will wear uniforms. They are already trusted. We already own the cars. They know where everyone lives.
▶ 1:06:16Sec. Lutnick: They have the gas. They already have electronic devices that we can put the application on. I think this will make the census more efficient, more accurate, pay the postman more money, and be beneficial to all of america. I'm excited to try it and 26.
▶ 1:06:34Sen. Schatz: Can I have 20 more seconds? Thank you. You articulated the reason for exploring this. I don't think you have articulated -- I don't think we know whether this would work. I think that the gao's study should weigh on you at least. I will be open to the idea that this may be in fact the best way to conduct the census, but you have to be prepared to conduct this pilot and go, it turns out the gao was right. Can we both remain open-minded and not dig into our position?
▶ 1:07:05Sen. Schatz: I thought, the postal service, maybe. Then I thought about training, the delay of mail, the cost. Maybe not. Can we remain open-minded? I do not want you to dig in and I promise I won't.
▶ 1:07:19Sec. Lutnick: That is the whole reason to do the test. I'm with you.
▶ 1:07:32Sen. Britt: Thank you for being here. I want to start with noaa and the rice wheel as an endangered species in 2019. An in-depth peer review that came out and was published in november raised an important question about, is it an actual distinct population from the wide-ranging and abundant road whale? I can't raise the implications in Ms.
▶ 1:08:02Sen. Britt: Classifying them as endangered. The listing is a national security risk, which you and the entire endangered species committee recently highlighted. In october 20 203i led the alabama delegation, the republicans in the alabama delegation, to a letter to the former noaa administrator highlighting these impacts in the national security concerns.
▶ 1:08:26Sen. Britt: With this in mind, are you going to reevaluate the science based in this new study and take that into consideration and consider delisting the population until there is a stronger scientific record to go on?
▶ 1:08:49Sec. Lutnick: Thank you, senator. Nice to see you. It is important to use the best science. The points you are raising are exactly right. Rice's whale is actually a different species, right? We need to study that. If it is not, we need to stop the nonsense of treating something as if it is endangered when, of course, it is plentiful.
▶ 1:09:13Sec. Lutnick: That study, that his research, but not done with the research that was done in the past which was biased. Let's do it correctly and get the answers. I think we will be on the same side of that page. We want to do it correctly, honestly, and we don't want something that is inappropriate in the way of our fishermen and energy. Because we are the department of commerce. We need america to thrive and succeed. We need the gulf of america to thrive and succeed.
▶ 1:09:44Sec. Lutnick: We need the alabama fishermen to thrive and succeed. We are on site and will make sure that we use science honestly to make sure that that is the outcome and not what has previously been seen as bias.
▶ 1:09:57Sen. Britt: Following up, recognizing the national marine fisheries service has a significant research budget, would you commit to any of that funding being used to validate the limited amount of research that formed the basis for designating this? Will you make sure that we use the funds available to do exactly what you said in your previous answer?
▶ 1:10:18Sec. Lutnick: Sounds right to me.
▶ 1:10:21Sen. Britt: Thank you. I will shift for a moment. I would like to address the department's critical role in the collection and dissemination of life-saving information during severe weather events. In recent years we just witnessed unthinkable devastation. Thinking specifically about july 4 of last year in texas. You and I probably use a weather app to know what the weather is.
▶ 1:10:52Sen. Britt: There is really limited information with regards to showing us how significant particularly flooding can be. Senator peter welch and I have the water research optimization act that I hope this body will look at. In addition to that the university of alabama and a national water center work hand in glove with noaa to make sure that we could have better data and inform people better in the future. I think that they are on the cutting edge.
▶ 1:11:18Sen. Britt: I know delivering that information is a challenge, but I think it is critical that it not be buried in government bureaucracy. That we utilize it to inform people better and make people's lives better and safer. Are there any efforts underway to partner with private weather industry to bring flood inundation backing directly to the public?
▶ 1:11:43Sec. Lutnick: I think that is an area that we are beginning to explore. Try to figure out how we can do better. Obviously the key part of the national weather service is safety for americans. We need to use all resources that are possible to do the best job we can. People at the national weather service, these are extraordinary americans who work their tails off to protect us. I'm honored to lead them.
▶ 1:12:13Sec. Lutnick: This hurricane season was the most accurate and earliest warning ever. I'm really proud of what they've accomplished. By the end of our term we will automate. We will work hard together with the water center in your state. We will work hard to do the best possible.
▶ 1:12:31Sen. Britt: In closing, I appreciate the additional commitment when it comes to severe weather. We have pockets of alabama that don't have the proper radar and we are working to close that gap. We certainly hope you will help us do that. Thank you.
▶ 1:12:45Chair Moran: Senator coons.
▶ 1:12:49Sen. Coons: Thank you. Four quick questions about the patent trademark office and chips. I understand that I wasn't here, I was in another hearing, but senator moran and senator capitol expressed concerns about the future of the manufacturing extension partnership. I come out of a manufacturing family and experience. I saw how it helps small manufacturing companies in delaware work more efficiently and compete more effectively.
▶ 1:13:17Sen. Coons: We appropriated 175 million last year, yet your budget zeros it out. My expectation is that any bipartisan bill will restore robust funding. We will commit to following the signed law for fy 26 and continue implementing the program. It is a simple question.
▶ 1:13:33Sec. Lutnick: I'm sorry that you missed it earlier. These awards are given quarterly and are on pace. Of course we will follow.
▶ 1:13:46Sen. Coons: Mep survives and thrives. Nist, I think it is a tremendous latency. I worked closely with a more than the debt could have been on the subcommittee. You proposed a $350 million cut to the operating budget. In particular, 120 million dollars cut to their scientific, technical, research programs.
▶ 1:14:14Sen. Coons: I'm concerned this threatens american leadership that will allow our adversaries to take advantage of that opening. Can you briefly explain why that deep of the cut to nist and if we reverse it on a bipartisan basis will you continue to advocate for what I think is one of our real treasures for innovation?
▶ 1:14:33Sec. Lutnick: Thank you.
▶ 1:14:37Sec. Lutnick: Thank you. Metrology is most important in nist, analytics most important in nist, and we are not cutting those things. We are cutting things that are not on those points. What happens to these organizations is they drift and start adding things that are not key to the outcome --
▶ 1:15:01Sen. Coons: I am going to try to keep to my time since senator fischer suffered from me going over in the other hearing. One of the things they drifted into is the manufacturing of biopharmaceuticals, where the hub for that is in delaware and I believe they made a dramatic difference. I will continue to advocate for nist. I look forward to hearing from you how they might have drifted.
▶ 1:15:26Sen. Coons: The patent and trademark office, I was encouraged in our last exchange you are no longer considering values based patent fees. We are about to see the expiration of the capability of the office to set their own fees , something that was extended in 2018 when president trump signed the success act. I am ready to help you with this but I have had no outreach from pto. I support the pro-innovation, pro-patent work of john squires.
▶ 1:15:56Sen. Coons: I'm inviting outreach if there is something we can do before that authority expires to retain what is critical to ptos success, their ability to set their own fees rather than have it done in some other way. I will move to my last point with my last minute and a half. Admiral poparo testified yesterday that giving the pla access to more advanced ai will improve their war fighting capability at the expense of service members.
▶ 1:16:27Sen. Coons: Despite that, the administration approved the export of h2 hundred chips in january, chips that are six times more powerful than the previously approved age 20's and significantly more powerful than anything the chinese are making. Can you tell us how many h to hundreds have been licensed for export, how many you intend to license, and what makes you confident that any ship sold to a company like alibaba will stay out of the hands of the pla?
▶ 1:16:55Sec. Lutnick: The process is those chips, which are not blackwell --
▶ 1:17:00Sen. Coons: We are not giving an absolute best, but giving them incredibly powerful chips they don't otherwise have access to. We are not talking about a commercial interest. We are talking about the chinese communist party and the people's liberation army, our number one military adversary on earth.
▶ 1:17:18Sec. Lutnick: My understanding is there cloud companies want to buy these chips --
▶ 1:17:24Sen. Coons: Of course they do.
▶ 1:17:26Sec. Lutnick: Aunt chinese -- aunt chinese central government has not let them of yet buy the chips because they are trying to keep them focused on their own domestic industry. That's my understanding of what's happening. So we have not sold them chips of yet.
▶ 1:17:44Sen. Coons: So no h200's have been sold to p.r.c. Affiliated companies, or companies that given their roles and how they operate, can expect will be handed to the pla?
▶ 1:17:56Sec. Lutnick: That's my understanding.
▶ 1:17:58Sen. Coons: That's encouraging, because the dual use policy in china means that anything that goes to a commercial entity is accessible to the military. I hope we will reverse the decision and not license any h200 sales. >> in your absence to one of the answers from the secretary on mep was an ig report showing problems, and my suggestion for what I plan to do is to ask ig to visit with members of the subcommittee.
▶ 1:18:30Sen. Coons: If there are problems, we can modify some concerns of the department and the administration so we can move forward in our usual bipartisan support of this program. Senator fischer.
▶ 1:18:41Sen. Fischer: Senator coons, to be honest with you I followed your example in our previous hearing. Mr. secretary, welcome. Nebraska saw one of the most dramatic reductions in the bead allocation of $405 million to ed's and tia approved final proposal, which only spends $4 million.
▶ 1:19:08Sen. Fischer: After administrative costs, around $340 million remain and nebraska need guidance on how they may use those dollars to further the goals of the program of the bead program in the state. More than a month after ntia delayed releasing guidance, the guidance has not yet been released.
▶ 1:19:31Sen. Fischer: What steps has the department of commerce and ntia taken to effectuate the goals of the beta program as it relates to the use of the non-deployment funds?
▶ 1:19:42Sec. Lutnick: Nice to see you, senator. We set out to have a listening tour. We had over 1000 people participate, over 280 comments. We are focused on those comments to make sure -- we are both going to make sure that we cover all broadband access requirements so that each state has made sure they covered everyone. Then we have a new program coming out.
▶ 1:20:14Sec. Lutnick: I have testified before, over the next two months we will come out with our plan and then I'm happy to talk with you about how best to serve your state.
▶ 1:20:24Sen. Fischer: That would be great. I worked hard on that infrastructure bill to make sure we could get funding to deploy broadband across my state, so it's disappointing to see the funding that hasn't been deployed yet. I have worked closely with ntia.
▶ 1:20:46Sen. Fischer: I want to make sure the guidance they are developing is driven by the needs of the states and it aligns with the law that authorized the program. Connectivity supported precision agriculture operations is the prime example.
▶ 1:21:03Sen. Fischer: I think a potential eligible use for those non-deployment dollars that falls squarely within the bounds of the law, which emphasizes conductivity that enables economic development and modern digital applications.
▶ 1:21:18Sen. Fischer: Last december, I led my colleagues in the nebraska delegation in sending a letter to assistant secretary roth urging the administration to allow states to retain that unspent bead money, encouraging ntia to clarify that precision agriculture connectivity constitutes an eligible use of the remaining bead funds.
▶ 1:21:45Sen. Fischer: Would you agree that connectivity enabling purses and agriculture is consistent -- enabling precision agriculture is consistent with the goals of the bead program?
▶ 1:21:56Sec. Lutnick: That's an important program and we are researching it and looking at it. It's really interesting and is very much part of our conversation.
▶ 1:22:04Sen. Fischer: I hope to continue to visit with you about that. I know ntia has received a lot of feedback on that. As ntia continues to implement the bead program, one of my foremost priorities is to ensure that every dollar spent on broadband deployment is going to be maximized.
▶ 1:22:29Sen. Fischer: To that end, I secured a provision in the law that authorized the bead program that would require the fcc to create and continually refresh a mapping tool, the broadband funding map, to maximize responsible use of those federal dollars.
▶ 1:22:48Sen. Fischer: Since I authored report language and appropriations bills also that directs them to do that, how are the department of commerce and the ntia working together with the fcc to ensure that broadband deployment efforts, particularly under bead , are harmonized across all the federal agencies?
▶ 1:23:08Sec. Lutnick: Your leadership on that topic is very important and we are working hard to make sure we are integrating our information and our data with those maps so they can be the best they can be.
▶ 1:23:22Sen. Fischer: Have you had a positive experience in reaching out to the other federal agencies and trying to make sure it is harmonized?
▶ 1:23:33Sec. Lutnick: I think that's true. I think we feel good about it. I will weigh back in again and we can have a conversation, but what's come up to me has been positive so far. I haven't heard anything otherwise.
▶ 1:23:48Sec. Lutnick: Thank you very
▶ 1:23:50Much Sen. Fischer: -- much.
▶ 1:23:52Chair Moran: Senator fischer, thank you. Senator van hollen?
▶ 1:23:58Sen. Van Hollen: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. secretary, I want to turn to some of the efforts of the bureau of industry and security. The request in the budget is to double their vis -- double the bis appropriation, and its something I support. I want to bring up a conversation we had regarding the affiliates rule.
▶ 1:24:24Sen. Van Hollen: The affiliates rule was put in place by the administration to prevent chinese companies from evading american export controls on chips and ai, by creating subsidiaries or other entities. It was essentially designed to close loopholes and it was something that I thought was a good idea.
▶ 1:24:49Sen. Van Hollen: Unfortunately it was then traded away or terminated by the trump administration. At least for a year, it was suspended. I think it was suspended last november for one year. My question is, if we are going to provide these additional funds to be I.s.
▶ 1:25:06Sen. Van Hollen: -- bis to undertake this work, can you commit we will reinstate the affiliates rule to try to prevent the export of high-end U.S. technology to china, including for potential use by the chinese military?
▶ 1:25:24Sec. Lutnick: Thank you. Our trade relationship is very complex. It is led by president trump and his relationship with president xi. But there is a trade team led by secretary bessent and ambassador greer who are focused on that, and I focus on the rest of the world. The idea that there is balance to figure that out.
▶ 1:25:54Sec. Lutnick: I agree that the affiliates rule is a smart thing for the united states of america to consider, but it is part of the balance of that full trade agreement, which those other leaders in our administration are driving, and I am part of that.
▶ 1:26:11Sen. Van Hollen: It's interesting because I think I mentioned before that when I ask other members of the administration, they say to ask the other guy. So we get in this circle and no answers, because everybody I talked to agrees we should apply the affiliates rule. But we have not yet reinstated it.
▶ 1:26:37Sen. Van Hollen: Let me turn to an issue on which I expect, hope, will agree, which is increasing recreational fishing off the maryland coast, a local matter. Earlier this month, noaa and form to the mid atlantic states and commissions that the agency would not be ready to implement new measures to increase the recreational catch of black sea bass summer flounder.
▶ 1:27:03Sen. Van Hollen: States have been working on these changes more than eight months to increase the catch by 20%, which would be a good deal for recreational fishermen. All the other stakeholders, including the mid-atlantic fisheries council and the atlantic states marine fisheries commission, have signed off. They have sent letters to you saying we can increase the recreational catch without doing any harm to this resource.
▶ 1:27:28Sen. Van Hollen: Can you -- last time around, noaa was able to clear this in 24 days. I don't know if it's because of staff cutbacks or whatever, but could you commit to getting this done? We are really now on the cusp of the season and this would be a huge loss to our recreational fishermen and women if we are not successful.
▶ 1:27:56Sec. Lutnick: Your comments sounds like something I support, so therefore I will leave here, talk to my people, and see what I can do to make sure we do not have any unnecessary delay. That we are doing the work necessary. And if there are any issues, to come back to you. But I would hope we would be able to do that. That sounds like something that we agree.
▶ 1:28:23Sec. Lutnick: I hope so, Mr. secretary. Finally, and this relates to questions I'm going to submit for the record, on concerns that have been raised regarding another conflict of interest issue regarding new mark group and their business dealings with blue owl capital, with ai data centers, and that interaction with the U.S. government.
▶ 1:28:50Sec. Lutnick: The fact that you as secretary of commerce will have a lot of control over how funds that japan will be investing in the united states are used. I am going to submit some questions for the record. I hope this time we will get answers to those questions. And if we don't, I don't know when we will next see you, but I can assure you that we will be asking questions, which I hope we can answer through the questions to the record.
▶ 1:29:22Chair Moran: I don't intend to have a second round of questions other than for the ranking member and myself, but I will call next on senator reed.
▶ 1:29:32Sen. Reed: Thank you, Mr. chairman, and thank you, Mr. secretary, for joining us today. Critical minerals are critical assets for the united states. I repeat myself. As the ranking on the armed services committee, they are essential for production. I know that commerce, department of defense, export import bank are all working with respect to this issue.
▶ 1:30:02Sen. Reed: And we are preparing to invest a critical amount of money. Which agency or individual is coordinating these investments, or is there no coordination?
▶ 1:30:12Sec. Lutnick: Critical minerals have been weaponized by china, who has a dominant position, and we need to break that chokehold. We are working together with the department of war and the administration and the white house, working together.
▶ 1:30:34Sec. Lutnick: Within the department of commerce, the chips team, which is an exceptional team of deeply capable people -- because these minerals go into semi conductor manufacturing. It's logical they would be there and they are the team that coordinates that within the department of commerce.
▶ 1:30:52Sen. Reed: What about coordination between the departments? Is there a common effort or focus or delegation of specific targets?
▶ 1:31:06Sen. Reed: Yes --
▶ 1:31:08Sec. Lutnick: Yes, the white house has convened a critical minerals team that brings everybody together and we meet quite often, collectively, meaning do w is there, we are there, energy is there, interior is there. We are all they are with our teams focused on how best we can use our collective resources to solve this. There is a gentleman who leads that for the white house who is the convening effort to make sure we are all working together.
▶ 1:31:39Sec. Lutnick: It's gone swiftly, and we are all working together.
▶ 1:31:41Sen. Reed: Another area that has become obvious not only on this committee but on the armed services committee is quantum investments. The potential of quantum is huge. I'm trying to find a word. Huge is ok.
▶ 1:32:01Sen. Reed: In fact, there is some speculation that if quantum is fully developed, quantum computing on satellites could detect submarines at depth, which would be a significant blow to our strategic position. Department of commerce is working on it. The department of defense is working on this.
▶ 1:32:27Sen. Reed: But in the department of commerce, the national institute of standards and technology, nist, is playing a critical role. They are developing technical standards. They are trying to coordinate or at least rationalize the efforts of many other departments. I look at the budget and you are proposing to cut the quantum budget by 32%. What's the rationale?
▶ 1:32:51Sen. Reed: Again, this is one of those threshold revolutions in technology -- and our friends the chinese are doing quite a bit of this.
▶ 1:33:01Sec. Lutnick: You now have great companies investing enormously in quantum. So when nist was doing it, it was a relatively new model. Now you have great companies investing huge amounts of money.
▶ 1:33:20Sec. Lutnick: I think you will see the chips office in r&d will do a broad-based investment in american quantum companies to help those companies achieve american dominance in quantum. I think it's just moving it from where we were exploring it inside government, to now commercial governments are leading the charge and we are going to help them do that and coordinate with them for the benefit of america.
▶ 1:33:48Sen. Reed: Going forward, I hope you will pay attention to nist and quantum. I know you are. But we got to get this right.
▶ 1:33:57Sec. Lutnick: I completely agree. Completely.
▶ 1:34:02Chair Moran: Senator murkowski.
▶ 1:34:06Sen. Murkowski: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Sec., good to see you. I told you last year I was not going to disappoint you. Every time you see me, I am going to ask you fish questions. We are back to the fisheries aspect of your portfolio.
▶ 1:34:24Sen. Murkowski: We are just always worried that the fisheries in and around the state of alaska, many of them, we are just seeing impacts due to climate change, due to additional predation, other factors that are out there. We worry about the sustainability of our fisheries.
▶ 1:34:45Sen. Murkowski: But we know what has guided us through all of this, all the ups and downs, is when we have adequate stock assessment, adequate surveys, support for our regional fishery management council, and we are worried that noaa's ability to provide the information is increasingly limited by staffing and funding shortages.
▶ 1:35:09Sen. Murkowski: So looking at the fy 2027 funding levels, can you give me the assurance I need to tell folks back home that the adequate resources are going to be there for the survey and stock assessments that underpin our fisheries management system?
▶ 1:35:25Sec. Lutnick: Yes, thanks for the question. And yes, we will make sure we have appropriate resources necessary to make sure we have the best assessments so that your fishermen can be successful. We don't want to constrain them. We are going to use better technology, unmanned.
▶ 1:35:49Sec. Lutnick: You can use enormous technology to do a better job, work with your fishermen to have them be participants to make it better, more accurate, and make sure we can unleash american fishermen and the great fishermen of alaska, which dominate the business of seafood in america, so we can be supportive, which we intend to be.
▶ 1:36:08Sen. Murkowski: We do see with advances in technology, this does help us. But again, it's the consistency of the data that allows us to make wise management decisions that have allowed us to be the most sustainably managed fishery in the country. Having said all that, we also see disasters within the fisheries. We have a disaster request out there for bearing see snow crab.
▶ 1:36:40Sen. Murkowski: We have numerous fishery disaster determinations, allocations, pending plans. We need to know the steps you are taking within the department to ensure fishery disaster declarations and funding allocations are processed efficiently. I had asked for a list of what is out there and pending, and in fairness it is stuff from back in 2022.
▶ 1:37:07Sen. Murkowski: We got one from 2022, several from 2023, 2024. These are backlogged. There is no dispute as to whether they should be declared. They are, they are pending, and we just haven't gotten them out there. Think about what happens to that fishermen that thought they were going to be able to get a little bit to tide them over until the next season. That fishermen may or may not still own a boat.
▶ 1:37:36Sen. Murkowski: So we need to make sure you are going to be prioritizing this.
▶ 1:37:41Sec. Lutnick: I completely understand. The program just had so little transparency, no one knew what was going on. I am committed to changing that model, making sure it is transparent. I understand if a fishermen can't fish, that is the definition of a disaster.
▶ 1:38:00Sec. Lutnick: I understand it. We are on site and we will -- onside and we will work hard to make it more transparent, more efficient, and faster.
▶ 1:38:11Sen. Murkowski: Perhaps if there is someone in your department we can sit down with and goat through this list and say, what can we tell these folks in terms of timing and the process going forward?
▶ 1:38:22Sec. Lutnick: Sounds reasonable. I will figure out how to work with you to do that.
▶ 1:38:27Sen. Murkowski: The same would also go with regards to finalizing grant and contract. Apparently you were asked in a previous hearing about delays in finalizing some grants. You said there were no grants or contracts that had been delayed, but we are still hearing from constituents that many are pending final approval before funding can be dispersed.
▶ 1:38:55Sen. Murkowski: If we can touch gloves with your folks to give you some specifics to have us work through some of these lists, I think that would be helpful if you would be willing to do that.
▶ 1:39:04Sec. Lutnick: Sure.
▶ 1:39:05Sen. Murkowski: That's easy.
▶ 1:39:07Chair Moran: Senator gillibrand, help us wrap up.
▶ 1:39:11Sen. Gillibrand: Thank you, Mr. secretary. Three topics I want to address. Quantum manufacturing, particularly mep, and the tariff refunds. In quantum, I said on armed and intelligence. I understand there has been huge investments by private sector companies, but nothing can replace american dominance with having that capability in-house.
▶ 1:39:42Sen. Gillibrand: When you are talking about a private-sector participant, they can sell their technology to china, to any adversary, to anyone. They don't have the national security priority embedded in their entire architecture. And we will risk losing being the head of many issues that are important for national security.
▶ 1:40:02Sen. Gillibrand: So I would urge you to visit -- to revisit your exuberance for the private sector, because it puts us in jeopardy of not being first mover in a space that is essential for national security, for encryption, for winning the next war. I urge you to meet with national security personnel, particularly senator reed and I, in a classified setting, so we can make the case that we are making a strategic error.
▶ 1:40:32Sen. Gillibrand: The cuts to nist, the cuts across the board, are hugely problematic, and I do not think this is an area where you should feel comfort that the private sector is doing great work. We need to bring some of that in-house and keep it in-house. .2, tariffs. I have traveled across new york. People are very anxious about the cost of everything.
▶ 1:40:56Sen. Gillibrand: When you look at small manufacturers, when you look at any small business, these tariffs have been like a ton of bricks on their ability to make money, to stay open, and continue to provide. I would like to know, what's your plan for getting refunds to small businesses, refunds to the american citizens who have had to pay more? Right now tariffs have driven up costs so significantly that it's put many businesses at risk and in peril.
▶ 1:41:22Sec. Lutnick: The process of refunds is run by customs and border patrol under homeland. It's their process and they have a significant process they are undertaking, but that is not the work of the department of commerce.
▶ 1:41:39Sen. Gillibrand: What is your perspective? And what are you advocating for in regards to our small business manufacturers and people who have paid the price of these tariffs?
▶ 1:41:50Sec. Lutnick: If you build in america, you don't have to pay the tariff. And the benefit of building in america -- as you know, in new york when we were opening the $100 billion micron factory, they were driven by the tariff policy of semiconductors. Building in america is driven by the tariff policy.
▶ 1:42:16Sec. Lutnick: Importers I understand don't like it, but those who manufacture in america and hire americans, they like it.
▶ 1:42:22Sen. Gillibrand: No they don't, because the reality of manufacturing in america today is many of their inputs come from abroad. A lot of lumber comes from canada. A lot of other manufactured pieces might come from any ally or any place on the globe. Manufacturing is highly complex, and it was created with an idea that the world is much flatter than it is today, with an idea that supply chains work in violent. We know -- inviolate.
▶ 1:42:56Sen. Gillibrand: We know that's not true post-covid. But tariffs on key allies like canada can cripple manufacturers that are domestic because their inputs come from an allied country.
▶ 1:43:05Sec. Lutnick: Bringing in manufacturing to america. Our manufacturing has been hollowed out. It's been sent overseas. Canada has the advantage of usmca. They have the best tariff deal in the world. They just treat us unfairly at any margin they possibly can, and the president is out to try to fix that. But the answer is make your product at home and you have no tariff.
▶ 1:43:32Sec. Lutnick: It --
▶ 1:43:34Sen. Gillibrand: It's just very hard to do that quickly. So there is going to be a benefit when tariffs are changed, that benefit should go back to the manufacturers and small businesses. Second, if you believe that, why are we cutting the mep program, the manufacturing extension partnership's? Those are the job creators that allow for these manufacturers to train their next generation of workers.
▶ 1:44:01Sen. Gillibrand: In new york state, we have 10 mep centers that created nearly 33,000 jobs over the last five years and contributed $7.6 billion to the economy. I just don't know why we are cutting these programs. That seems extremely unwise, given the challenges we have.
▶ 1:44:18Sec. Lutnick: Unfortunately you are not here to hear what I said before. The inspector general has taken great exception with many of these programs. The program was started in the late 1980's for advanced manufacturing. I don't take issue with figuring out how to do it right, but when it's been done wrong, it needs to be cleaned up.
▶ 1:44:42Sec. Lutnick: There were all sorts of reports about excessive compensation, and the inspector general challenged those statistics and said they were not right. I think if we got it right, we could do these well for america.
▶ 1:44:53Sen. Gillibrand: I would urge you to come to new york and I will show you how we got it right. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:45:00Chair Moran: Senator gillibrand, in your absence I announced we were going to ask the ig to talk to us to find out the challenges or difficulties they discovered, if they did, that the secretary talked about, and work to get an mep program that is satisfactory to all of us. Senator peters.
▶ 1:45:21Sen. Peters: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Secretary lutnick, you might recall that at last year's hearing, my first question to you was about staffing cuts at the national weather service and how I was concerned about the direction of the agency and its continued ability to protect public safety, which is a primary focus of what they do. I am frustrated that I have to ask you once again about the very same topic.
▶ 1:45:50Sen. Peters: As you may know, on march 6 a severe storm devastated southwestern michigan and claimed the lives of four people. This fatal storm produced four separate tornadoes, one of which was the strongest to hit michigan in nearly 50 years. And yet there was not even a tornado watch issued, but the conditions could lead to a tornado.
▶ 1:46:20Sen. Peters: We expect watches to come about fairly often. No watch in this situation beforehand. But even more damming that there was not even a watch to alert citizens to be prepared and to have situational awareness, the weather service failed to issue a tornado warning until a full five minutes after the tornado touched down.
▶ 1:46:42Sen. Peters: By the time the warning happened, it had already torn through a home in niles, michigan, and unfortunately a 12-year-old boy was killed before the warning even went up. This was a serious failure on the part of the weather service, but we must work together to make sure it doesn't happen now. I think that's the least we can do in the wake of this tragedy.
▶ 1:47:09Sen. Peters: My first question to you is in common, as I want to get to the bottom of how this happened in the first place. I reached out to the weather service director graham on march 13, requesting and writing answers to a number of questions regarding the incident and hoped we could get that answer within 30 days. 30 days has come and gone.
▶ 1:47:33Sen. Peters: My first question is, given that you oversee the weather service, will you work with me to get a written response to these questions as soon as possible?
▶ 1:47:41Sec. Lutnick: When there is loss of life, it is terrible. There is no other way to say it. But I will not allow the national weather service to be politicized. There was a warning. Whoever told you there was not has given you a bad fact. There was of course a warning. We are the national weather service 24/7. We do not have staffing issues.
▶ 1:48:12Sec. Lutnick: We are 24/7 across this great nation because the job of the national weather service is to protect the safety of america. Tornadoes are very difficult. They are horrible. They don't get much warning.
▶ 1:48:30Sen. Peters: There was a warning, I mentioned there was a warning. It was five minutes after the tornado hit and after a young boy was killed. There was no watch. We want written answers. I want to get to the bottom of the experience I am about facts, I think you are about facts. I am just trying to get facts, not politicized.
▶ 1:48:53Sen. Peters: We need to figure out if there were problems or some oversight or whatever it may be -- I don't want to speculate until we get facts. Will you get us those answers? It's a very simple question, if I could get answers to the questions we posed.
▶ 1:49:09Sec. Lutnick: If we both agree it's not politicized, let's just get to the bottom of it. Let's do it together. I would be happy to do it with you and your staff so we can be better. There's nothing we can do about the past. We can be better. The national weather service is here to protect and save us.
▶ 1:49:28Sen. Peters: Does that mean you will help me get those answers in writing?
▶ 1:49:32Sec. Lutnick: I'm happy to work with you.
▶ 1:49:34Sen. Peters: I appreciate that. Second, it's my understanding the weather service is putting together a report to analyze what went wrong. I know the men and women of the weather service care deeply about their job. Will you ensure that this report comes to fruition first, and do you commit to sharing it with congress so we can work on the next steps in a thoughtful, fact-based way?
▶ 1:49:59Sec. Lutnick: I am happy to leave here, examine where we are with respect to that report, and have a conversation with respect to that report.
▶ 1:50:09Sen. Peters: Lastly, it's my understanding that the agency's most cutting edge modeling system was not operational on march 6 due to resource constraints, is what we have been told. Either now or in a follow-up, would you explain to the subcommittee what resources would be necessary to fully operationalize the worn on forecast system, as to why there was that shortfall? What we may have to do in congress to make sure that doesn't happen in the future?
▶ 1:50:40Sec. Lutnick: I hear you, and I will look into that when I am not sitting next to you.
▶ 1:50:46Sen. Peters: Past time. Can I have one more question? Thank you. When you testified in front of this committee in february, you committed to meet with me on changes in the census bureau that have been made to the 2026 cents's desk, which is a key planning step to ensure we have an accurate senses in 2030. Unfortunately, we still have not sat down to discuss the test and preparations for that census.
▶ 1:51:18Sen. Peters: Will you commit to meeting with me as soon as possible to talk about the census? I have a number of issues I am concerned about and would love to have that conversation with you. We could work together to make sure the 2030 census is carried off the way it should be.
▶ 1:51:34Sec. Lutnick: Sure. Thank you.
▶ 1:51:37Chair Moran: I'm about to bring this hearing to conclusion after I ask a few more questions. Let me make sure that none of my colleagues want to ask. Senator gillibrand?
▶ 1:51:49Sen. Gillibrand: I have some specific questions, but if you prefer, I consummate them to the record. I ask unanimous consent.
▶ 1:51:56Chair Moran: Thank you, so ordered. Senator peters, you good? -- try to wrap up with a handful of quick, brief questions, things I want to highlight. First of all, ntia. When this broad -- broadband program was created, I was the ranking member of the subcommittee.
▶ 1:52:28Chair Moran: Senator shaheen was the chairwoman. There was a debate about where these additional broadband programs should go, who was going to provide the money, what agency. As I recall -- I will speak for myself, and I think this is true of senator shaheen, but I don't know for certain -- that we lobby our colleagues that bead be housed with ntia.
▶ 1:52:53Chair Moran: One of my rationales for taking that position, because there's other agencies involved in broadband deployment, was that we would have the opportunity to oversee and have the capability of having conversations as appropriators for the department and therefore the ntia. Please don't disallow my theory. It sure it comes true as we reached the conclusion in regard to how these last remaining funds are going to be spent.
▶ 1:53:19Chair Moran: I also would like the name of a person, if you would either publicly or tell me afterwards who you would like for me and my staff to visit with in regard to broadband deployment, in kansas particularly, so we can reach out to that person and have a suggestion. If you share that, that would be helpful.
▶ 1:53:36Sec. Lutnick: Yeah, we will do that offline.
▶ 1:53:39Chair Moran: Perfect. I appreciate senator peters' attention to the weather and the challenges we face in forecasting. The fy 2026 cj appropriation law made clear that noaa's next generation of geostationary weather satellites must stay on schedule and carry both advanced imagers and hyperspectral sounders to expand and improve
▶ 1:54:11Chair Moran: Critical data for weather forecasts. We had two tornadoes touched down in kansas a week ago. We see first-hand the importance of that weather forecasting. I was in one of my weather stations on the colorado border a couple weeks ago, making sure they are capable of performing 24/7. Most of our weather comes across the rockies and enters kansas.
▶ 1:54:37Chair Moran: It's a hugely important national weather service station in goodland, as are our other three. I want to make sure you commit to following those directions about the satellites and make sure you have an appreciation for the importance of keeping those satellites, re-baselining the geox program on target. Can you assure me on that?
▶ 1:55:03Sec. Lutnick: In our analysis on that program, which is vital, what we learned is we can use our sensors, put them in other agency's satellites, and say brandon ormiston amount of money. Basically save money but have better sensing and invest more money, not the other way around.
▶ 1:55:26Sec. Lutnick: So if we don't have to launch and our own satellites but can leverage the satellites of others and put our sounders and imagers in our own satellites and the satellites of others, and then we re-examined the nasa contract and we have been able to save billions of dollars but take no less data. In fact, we will have more data. I am completely in tune with you on that topic.
▶ 1:55:49Chair Moran: And that is taking place now? And we are aware and know this? We don't know this.
▶ 1:55:56Sec. Lutnick: It would be fun to do it together so you can know it because we'd be proud of the way we are working together.
▶ 1:56:02Chair Moran: I'm happy to be proud. Kansas state university at salina has a significant aviation program. They are training uias pilots ad airline pilots. You can get certified to fly.
▶ 1:56:24Chair Moran: One of the relationships we have helped establish is the opportunity to train noaa commission officer corps pilots, hurricane hunters, in the place that has tornadoes, not hurricanes. I hope that you would confirm with me you'd be happy to work with us to try to make certain that program expands and creates an opportunity for training pirate -- training pilots for noaa.
▶ 1:56:48Sec. Lutnick: Sounds smart, let's explore it together.
▶ 1:56:52Chair Moran: Thank you, sir. Let me turn to bis. We provided 44 million dollar increase for the bureau of industry and security to strengthen export controls, expand enforcement, and support additional personnel in the last fiscal year. Can you walk me through how those resources are being spent or will be spent?
▶ 1:57:16Sec. Lutnick: Hiring more law enforcement officers to prevent our innovations from being stolen for us and basically exported from countries -- exported to countries we don't want it to go is vital. We I.s. -- bis earns significantly more money than we spend. Last year we had $308 million of fines. This year we expect over $250 million in fines.
▶ 1:57:47Sec. Lutnick: This is more police officers, and these are intellectual police officers. These are not on the beach. These are thinking about who is trying to steal our chips and who is trying to get our best innovations for use against america. Dbi asked -- the bis has been the front line of that, incredibly effective. We are just going to hire more basically intellectual police officers.
▶ 1:58:15Chair Moran: I am interested in helping you accomplish those goals. As you see the needs, make sure that I'm aware of them. Commerce is currently working its way through a five-year review of countervailing duties placed on phosphate fertilizers from morocco and russia. I engaged on this topic in the first trump administration in 2020, asking them to consider the impact these tariffs would have on U.S. agriculture.
▶ 1:58:45Chair Moran: We are now at a time that the president of the american farm bureau indicated a week ago that 70% of U.S. farmers are unable to afford all the fertilizer they need this season. I would ask that the commerce department review these duties and that they are considering the secondary effects on high price fertilizer inputs could have on farmers in kansas. I would pick up only slightly where senator gillibrand left off.
▶ 1:59:16Chair Moran: I understand the importance of supporting manufacturing in the united states. I would tell you that my farmers are certainly producers in the united states and they feed the world. But this is perhaps the most challenging time in my time as a public official that agriculture producers face.
▶ 1:59:37Chair Moran: It is certainly true in kansas, where we have had five years of drought, so we are not financially in a position to take on difficult times now and in the future. Tariffs to me seemed to be an opportunity for us once and for all to get rid of the unfair trade barriers that farmers have faced in dealing with other countries and their exports.
▶ 2:00:02Chair Moran: Kansans generally, in aviation and aerospace, agriculture, and manufacturing, we earn a living by what we export around the globe. We have faced, particularly agriculture, tariff and nontariff barriers. I was hoping that the tariffs would be utilized to negotiate away those artificial barriers that keep our products out of other countries. How would you describe that as happening?
▶ 2:00:31Chair Moran: Once that happens, do you expect the tariffs to remain in place? I assume there is an agreement that in return for something other countries are giving us to increase our exports, we are reducing the tariffs on their inputs into the united states?
▶ 2:00:46Sec. Lutnick: Our historic trade deals have done exactly what you said. We are trying to smash down their barriers, so our great farmers, our great producers can export to the european union, as an example. They are parliamentary rules and they are slow and it's a process.
▶ 2:01:11Sec. Lutnick: In new york they just recently within the last two weeks passed all the laws to implement the program of the deal we made last summer. Korea just past their laws. So these are processes. We stay together with ambassador greer, we stay hard on it to open these markets to our exporters. That is a key part.
▶ 2:01:39Sec. Lutnick: We were up 6% this year, but I expect our exports to dramatically increase going forward as these historic trade deals are implemented.
▶ 2:01:47Chair Moran: That's a good point , and I think I understand the difficulties in getting the agreements implemented. But there's been an announcement of agreements and farmers are anxious to see the results. I appreciate any attention you can give to that, and also to this issue of phosphates and fertilizer prices as a result of those tariffs.
▶ 2:02:12Sec. Lutnick: Just one quick point on that. Countervailing duties are through the court of international trade, so they are not really set by the department of commerce. We will do work on those topics. These are not the kind of tariffs that are set. They are set by a court and there is a different process. But we are onside with it.
▶ 2:02:37Chair Moran: That's what I wanted to hear and we have been engaged with the court as well. I think this is my last question. Senator reed and I want to visit with you when we close this record. Airlines. High fuel prices, which is a challenge for our domestic carriers.
▶ 2:03:00Chair Moran: I also highlight the importance, and we had a hearing of this subcommittee along with senator britt's subcommittee on homeland security, about fifa and the world cup, and the department of commerce was represented at that hearing talking about the importance of aching sure we welcome millions of visitors to the united states as the world cup takes place, and ultimately the olympics in los angeles.
▶ 2:03:25Chair Moran: I chair the subcommittee on the commerce committee on aviation and aerospace, thinking about our airline industry. Any thoughts about the challenges they face and blood can be done about increasing fuel prices?
▶ 2:03:41Chair Moran: And making sure the department of commerce utilizes every opportunity it has, to make sure that not only the department of commerce but government wide we are doing the things, the state department and visas, to welcome guests and utilize our airlines and our travel and tourism industry.
▶ 2:03:56Sec. Lutnick: One of the hallmarks of the trump administration is our ability to work together across departments. Each of the topics you raised, there are working groups where we all get together. We were just doing jet fuel pricing yesterday. There was a large group talking about how we can be helpful, what are the moves we can make and what actions we can take for the benefit of our travelers.
▶ 2:04:23Sec. Lutnick: That is a hallmark of how we work together and we do it all the time and I would be glad to talk to you about how we do it.
▶ 2:04:29Chair Moran: I will tie agriculture and aviation together and tell you that I chair a caucus in the senate nonsustainable aviation fuel, designed to help agriculture producers have a market in renewable fuels, but also to assist airlines as they try to enter these blends into their aviation fuel. In your interagency task force, if you could put a word in for the opportunity. Mostly we are talking about a treasury issue, something called 45 c.
▶ 2:05:01Chair Moran: Anything -- 45z. Anything you would like to add?
▶ 2:05:06Sec. Lutnick: Thank you for your hospitality and I appreciate spending the day with you.
▶ 2:05:10Chair Moran: Thank you. It's only been a morning. If there is no further questions, senators may submit any additional questions or the subcommittee's official hearing record. We request the secretary respond within 30 days. The subcommittee stands adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]