▶ 0:17:59Senator: The subcommittee will come to order. It is nice to begin this oversight on the agency meeting. We are all very busy this morning. I don't know how many appropriations subcommittees you have. I've got four and a couple of full ones. So, if we pop in and out, it's not because we are not interested in what you have to sit about this important budget, it's just that there is a lot happening.
▶ 0:18:28Senator: Thank you for making sure that you can come before our committee at our invitation to examine the president's budget request for the department of the interior for fiscal year 2027. Again, welcome to our secretary of the interior, doug burgum. It is good to have you back before the committee and I really appreciate your visits to alaska. I know that you got another one coming up, so thank you very much for that.
▶ 0:18:56Senator: When we held the hearing just a year ago, the fact of the matter is that there was a lot of confusion going on. We were dealing with doge and efforts to reorganize and consolidate at the department and it was hard to keep on top of all that was happening. I hope that we are past those days, now. I truly appreciate the increased communication that we have seen from the agency. So, thank you for that.
▶ 0:19:25Senator: I want to personally recognize the substantive work that you and the administration are doing to advance alaska's immense natural resource opportunities. You and your team have been a part of the public land order 5150 to help complete estate land entitlement. You've gotten the access project back on track and are pushing very hard on a.k.a.
▶ 0:19:50Senator: Ellen g in the coastal plain, repealing unlawful management rules for petroleum management and you just tell the best ever lease sale there, raising $183 million. That was fabulous. You have also focused, as you promise me you would, on completion of the land exchange with the very good and very patient people in king cove for the life-saving road that they have been fighting for for decades now. So, thank you for that.
▶ 0:20:22Senator: The members of this panel have widely divergent views about the interior mission and what the agency should be doing on a daily basis. But we did some really good work and I want to acknowledge my ranking member hirono. We worked hard last year to bridge those gaps and pass what I thought was a good, thoughtful, and of course bipartisan bill for fy 26 and now we get to do it all over again. Our starting point here is the president's request.
▶ 0:20:51Senator: I always say that while the president proposes the budget, congress holds the power to dispose of it. Once again, there are things that many of us like and support and there are some things that we do not agree with that will not make it into the bill. From a high level perspective, the president is proposing a slight increase for the department, but it relies on some strict -- significant structural shifts, including the establishment of a new wildland fire service.
▶ 0:21:20Senator: I'm eager to explore that and learn more details as we brace for what I am fearful of, which is expected to be a bad fire season across the western U.S. another notable proposal is for a new marine minerals administration. There are valid reasons to consider that as well. Although the projected costs savings raised some eyebrows as we prioritized the continued safety of offshore operations.
▶ 0:21:48Senator: Safety relies in part on adequate staffing on the regulatory side. I am also less enthusiastic about the budget cuts for just about every bureau, including a major reduction for hazards. The usgs count has cut 37 percent. We have got a 26% cut for the bureau of indian affairs, 30 2% cut for the national parks service, and a 35% cut for the bureau of land management.
▶ 0:22:16Senator: I also know that while we are seeing reductions there, we are seeing increases in a couple of different areas that again get your attention. $10 billion in mandatory spending, mandatory funding for beautification here in the district of columbia. Not that we don't need to beautify, but I think that many of our national parks could also use some support here. So, working through some of that.
▶ 0:22:45Senator: I also noted the $1 billion for a new program for the great salt lake's. Obviously, much more to learn there. Ultimately, my goal is to make sure our fy 20 seven bill again puts the department in the best possible position for the year ahead. That includes the funding that you need to permit domestic resource production.
▶ 0:23:07Senator: This is everything from oil and gas to minerals, including renewables, which we cannot arbitrarily exclude from our national energy portfolio. Addressing some of the things that are important within my state, I think it we must, we must address tribal resilience grants.
▶ 0:23:29Senator: We continue to hear those funds remain frozen in your budget again proposes to eliminate this critical program the tribal communities rely on to prepare for and respond to natural disasters and other environmental threats. We need to build out our work on contaminated lands in alaska, expedite allotments for vietnam veterans in alaska, make sure that the programs focus on the right basins, and as we talk about offshore we must meet our
▶ 0:23:59Senator: Obligations to our U.S. territories. Something that we don't talk about often enough. Again, as we discussed last week, I really appreciate the efforts you have made, Mr. secretary, so far, but when it comes to the probate backlog, you and I agreed that we have much more that needs to be done.
▶ 0:24:20Senator: The probate backlog impacting indian country is just not acceptable and we need you to focus on getting culturally competent permanent staff in place because even if all the vacant positions were filled, it would still take eight years just to resolve the existing cases, not including their adjudication. You will hear in my questions this morning a real focus on the staffing. It is not just within the probate accounts.
▶ 0:24:48Senator: You need appropriate staffing across the board so that the department can do the work on time and in a legally defensible manner. I think that this is one of the areas within the department of the interior -- people look at this massive, massive department and it, it is all about administering our lands. Whether it is blm, park service, and they think about it from the land perspective.
▶ 0:25:15Senator: But we cannot manage it, we cannot manage these unless we have the people there. It just takes a lot of good people doing good things to turn it into sustained success. And you have got a lien team and they are darn good, I appreciate them, but we keep hearing this. Not just from alaska, but other western delegations, that there is a concern that if we are going to execute on the presidential executive orders, we need the men and women to do just that.
▶ 0:25:45Senator: We have got a lot to discuss on this busy day, so again thank you for being here, thank you for your leadership, and I look forward to working with you and your team as we on the committee work to craft another good bill with my counterpart, senator merkley. Over to you, sir.
▶ 0:26:03Mr. Burgum: Thank, chair. I hope that the bill that we were able to do for fy 26 was a strong start for fiscal year 27. Welcome, secretary burgum. The interior department carries quite a set of responsibilities. Entrusted with stewarding our nation's public lands, honoring our commitments to tribal nations, and safeguarding our natural resources for this generation and the generations to come.
▶ 0:26:35Mr. Burgum: But I am quite concerned that the actions of your department are undermining those missions rather than advancing them. Let's start with the rule of law. The committee has requirements for reorganizations and reprogramming. In our most recent bill that was passed in january we added a requirement to provide advanced notification. Notification is not optional. Yet we only learned about the merger of the offshore wind regulatory permitting agencies through the news.
▶ 0:27:04Mr. Burgum: No advance notification of any kind. It's not a policy disagreement. It's just an issue of the rule of law and your decision to ignore it, which is unacceptable to this member of the committee. We also require congressional approval for reorganizations and reprogramming's. Decades of republican and democratic administrations have that arrangement with the legislative trench under our constitution and separation of powers.
▶ 0:27:32Mr. Burgum: Your department's refusal to cooperate with the oversight rule is really quite a divergence from that and quite unacceptable. We recently learned that the department of justice is playing total energies $1 billion to cancel projects that would have produced cheaper and cleaner power. In return, you are asking that company to export more natural gas and invests in a series of other fossil projects.
▶ 0:28:03Mr. Burgum: Deliberately warping the economy to advance dirtier, more expensive energy over cleaner, less expensive energy does not serve the american people. Certainly not america's leadership in the world. Using taxpayer dollars to pay for profit companies do not produce clean energy and ask them to export more natural gas that increases the price of natural gas here in the united states is raising the price for american households and is
▶ 0:28:34Mr. Burgum: Incompatible with the mission of lowering prices for americans. It is happening at a time when people across the country are already seeing their utility rates go up and are feeling pressed to the wall in other dimensions on housing and health care. So, driving up the costs of gas per households certainly is counterproductive to the welfare and economic success of our families.
▶ 0:29:02Mr. Burgum: We are told that the administration is focused on rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse. But where is that scrutiny when it is needed to make sure that the investments promote less expensive energy rather than more expensive? It's completely absent. The interior department made it a policy to hold renewable energy to a different standard, a more difficult standard, then polluting oil and gas.
▶ 0:29:34Mr. Burgum: That does not serve america well. Moff falling projects until developers lose interest or run out of money is really an attack on a significant part of our economy. And the president has said that he hates wind turbines and your department has been falling all over itself to get rid of them, even if it means higher rates for americans and eliminating global competitiveness.
▶ 0:30:04Mr. Burgum: You propose in your budget to eliminate all funding for research, in other words putting america last in advancing the energy of the future. I am very concerned about this budgetary assault on our tribal communities. It proposes cutting programs for tribal communities by one third. 1.5 billion taken out of tribal governments and tribal schools. Road repair, agriculture, firefighting, job training.
▶ 0:30:35Mr. Burgum: For school construction alone tribal school construction, and 85% cut. That is simply not acceptable. Many of the schools in indian country are in far worse shape than our public schools elsewhere. Certainly, we have a responsibility to assist with the upgrades. But I think adds to the fact that I'm so troubled by this is you had the same proposal last year.
▶ 0:31:03Mr. Burgum: Over the last year, tribal communities have weighed in heavily. Congress weighed in heavily. So, we supported our tribal communities. Yet you bring back the same exact proposal again. Deaf, really, to the responsibilities and concerns expressed over an entire year. Bringing it back again, that's just a choice to rub salt into the wound. Not a good move.
▶ 0:31:35Mr. Burgum: This pattern of reckless cuts, it extends across departments. Take the fish and wildlife service. It proposes a significant cut to national wildlife refuge system. Tens of millions of americans rely on those places for outdoor recreation, including hunting, fishing, wildlife viewing. Eliminating funding for multinational species conservation.
▶ 0:32:03Mr. Burgum: Programs where we partner with other countries to combat wildlife trafficking and protect iconic species. To disrupt the terrorist and criminal that profit from it. Cutting back on those programs seeds leadership abroad at the very moment when, really, or interests would be advanced by cooperation in leadership.
▶ 0:32:29Mr. Burgum: Turning to the national park service, we again see a budget the repeats wildly unpopular and counterproductive proposals, proposing to eliminate another 2500 physicians on top of the 2500 folks who were, in the lingo of the day, voluntol to leaved their jobs.
▶ 0:32:57Mr. Burgum: It's a fundamental halloween out of the workforce that protects and manages our most treasured places. Our national parks are nothing parks. They certainly shouldn't be so loft. So, this budget is an insult to americans, where we have seen how important those national parks staff are in protecting our natural and cultural resources, to maintain infrastructure and manage
▶ 0:33:28Mr. Burgum: Wildfire, water systems, conduct scientific research, plan for the long term in an ever-changing environment. We need the trail guides, the maintenance crews. But this budget says -- it's time to unravel the national parks system by cutting hundreds of park treasures out of the system entirely.
▶ 0:33:53Mr. Burgum: We saw a debate here in the senate over the last year where a couple of senators proposed selling off some of our public lands. I can tell you how it goes over in rural oregon. We treasure our places to hike, to camp, to hunt, to fish, to collect mushrooms, and just to be in the wilderness to restore our souls. And yet you want to see those sold off so that the billionaires of the world can put up a fence and say -- not here.
▶ 0:34:24Mr. Burgum: Billionaire now owns. Jeff bezos now owns. Someone else now owns our national treasures. We are not going to let that happen. Our national parks are the best idea we ever had. Absolutely american and absolutely democratic. As we approach the 250th anniversary of this nation, we should be strengthening the legacy.
▶ 0:34:50Mr. Burgum: Establishing that foundation for the next 250 years, not undermining it, not damaging it. And yet when we look at this budget we see a very different set of priorities from this administration. We see slush funds. We see vanity projects.
▶ 0:35:13Mr. Burgum: We see the weapon of long-standing bipartisan programs, proposing 10 billion for a capital stewardship program driven by vanity projects here in washington, D.C. deferred maintenance and the D.C. area has been estimated at two point 7 billion. Less than 10 billion. The additional $7.3 billion, where is that going?
▶ 0:35:38Mr. Burgum: You know, it's already another 310 million in carryover from the legacy restoration fund that the parks service tells us is dedicated to washington, D.C. so, give us a detailed analysis of what you had in mind, rather than setting up this slush fund to be spent on vanity projects for a president as opposed to for the people.
▶ 0:36:02Mr. Burgum: At the same time, this budget request, $9.5 billion per year for five years to address deferred maintenance and infrastructure needs across the entire country? Here we have a slush fund of 10 million for vanity projects for this president that exceed the 9.5 billion per year for the five years to address deferred maintenance and infrastructure across the entire country in national parks wildlife refugees and tribal schools.
▶ 0:36:30Mr. Burgum: So, bring us a detailed vision of how every penny is to be spent and then we can have a real discussion about the $10 billion. We have watched the president tear down the people's house. We have watched the president rename a memorial for president kennedy after himself. It's not a pretty sight. You shouldn't be part of it in the interior department should not be a part of it.
▶ 0:37:00Mr. Burgum: Vanity projects to promote the current president are better suited to a regime then to a republic. Another problem with this administration is the compulsion to bring partisanship into nonpartisan actions. The project list for the land and water conservation fund that was put forward last year and this year are almost entirely in red states.
▶ 0:37:26Mr. Burgum: You have politicized projects that have never been politicized before. This committee work for years on a bipartisan basis to fund these projects across the country. Red states and blue states alike , regardless of which party represents them in the senate or house. It is odd to even describe these projects in partisan terms.
▶ 0:37:55Mr. Burgum: The administration is also requesting the extension of the legacy restoration fund for deferred maintenance on tribal schools? I strongly support that. Are you going to bring your partisanship into that as well, where none should ever exist? I hope you will be able to affirm to us that you will end this corruption a bipartisan funding for projects.
▶ 0:38:24Mr. Burgum: Last week the president announced unilateral plans to construct what he calls a triumphal arch on federal parkland here in washington, D.C. where was the consultation? Where was the public process? Where are the approvals required under law? Why is the taxpayer paying for these funds diverted from a program that funds rural museums and libraries? Doesn't seem appropriate to me. I don't think it seems appropriate to most of america.
▶ 0:38:54Mr. Burgum: Budgets are statements of values. This budget proclaims that the values of this administration are the public lands are to be exploited rather than stewarded. Inexpensive rather than clean or cheaper. Slush fund no accountability are appropriate in our nation. And that congressional oversight is a problem beyond a core part of the separation of powers in the constitution.
▶ 0:39:23Mr. Burgum: I hope that with this 250th anniversary we will celebrate our constitution and the separation of powers and public accountability because that is what the american people deserve. Thank you.
▶ 0:39:39Chair Murkowski: Mr. secretary, we will now turn to you for your opening comments. We have your written testimony but we are pleased that you are before the committee here this morning. Welcome.
▶ 0:39:49Mr. Burgum: Thank you, chairman, ranking member. Distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to meet with you this morning to testify in support of the presidential budget request for the department of the interior and discuss what our team is doing to make america safer, stronger, more beautiful and prosperous. Our department -- department touches the lives of millions of americans.
▶ 0:40:17Mr. Burgum: We honor all federal trusts responsibilities and unique relationships with 570 five tribal nations, delivering water to the west, fighting fires, enforcing the law, stewarding our national parks. Our efforts extend across the country to ensure border security. The department of the interior manages 41% of the southwestern border and the safety of indian country. The broad portfolio is a part of the american balance sheet.
▶ 0:40:47Mr. Burgum: Tens of trillions in assets that belong to the american people that should be responsibly managed input to use for their benefit according to the law. While prior administrations have handcuffed prosperity unlocked americans out of land and water, the trump administration is doing the opposite, responsibly unlocking access and prosperity through recreation and sustainable use including by our hunters and anglers, the budget reflecting the residential priorities to pursue energy dominance, deliver services more
▶ 0:41:19Mr. Burgum: Efficiently, uphold the law clerk, making our federal lands safe and accessible for all americans. All of which would make life up more affordable for americans across the country. The interior is committed to increasing energy development on public lands and waters, reestablishing our position as dominant in critical minerals and protecting our economic and national security.
▶ 0:41:43Mr. Burgum: Energy dominance means selling energy to our friends and allies so that they don't have to buy it from those waging war against our allies or terrorism against us. We have eliminated burdensome ideological counterproductive regulations that undermined efficient land management and economic development while maintaining appropriate protections on our wildlife and our environment with ongoing regulatory reform to cut red tape that will continue to secure our supply chains, unlock american energy, deliver better
▶ 0:42:14Mr. Burgum: Outcomes for the american people in tribal nations and secure financial returns for the american people on federally owned land and mineral assets. As noted by the chairman, last month the department held the lawfully required record lease sale of the national petroleum reserve in alaska, generating record revenue in creating opportunities for native alaskans who live on the north slope.
▶ 0:42:40Mr. Burgum: Following congressional direction, the working families tax cut act, we are scheduling and holding energy lease sales according to the law to increase supply and lower costs for americans. The department estimates revenues in 2027 will exceed nearly 20 billion, that's revenues coming in from the managing of our resources more than offsetting the costs of the entire department. The department is also reducing costs by making our operations more efficient and effective.
▶ 0:43:09Mr. Burgum: The budget with three proposals to improve efficiency, including further strategic unification of the wildland fire programs into the department's new U.S. wildland fire service. Consolidation of the endangered species act, the marine mammal protection act separately managed under noah, unifying those with the parallel and often redundant work with and use -- U.S.
▶ 0:43:39Mr. Burgum: Fish and wildlife with the reunification of the two departmental offshore mineral management bureaus into a single entity, the minerals administration. Streamlining government to offshore energy and mineral resources delivers greater value to the american public and ensures the safe and expeditious and orderly development of our resources in critical minerals.
▶ 0:44:02Mr. Burgum: The unification efforts will streamline bureaucracy and make our work to fight fires, manage forests, and manage offshore resources, it will make them all better, faster, stronger, and more effective. The budget advances key administrative priorities including upholding trust responsibilities and empowering indian country. Concerning wildlife and natural resources it makes public lands accessible to all americans for hunting, fishing, recreations and other uses.
▶ 0:44:33Mr. Burgum: We are expanding efforts to cooperate with tribes and federal agencies to fulfill federal trust responsibilities by committing to open-door engagement, transparency, and sustained communication with all 500 and 75 recognized tribes. In 2027 the department will continue its commitment to advancing tribal sovereignty, promoting economic opportunities, reducing the probate debt backlog and combating violent crime in the missing and indigenous murdered
▶ 0:45:03Mr. Burgum: People. Millions visit each year, contributing to a boom in the recreation economy, supporting jobs in small businesses nationwide. Our 2027 budget focuses on the beautification of the assets. One big ask I would have for this committee is the reauthorization of the great american outdoors act legacy restoration fund passed by congress and signed by the president and his first term.
▶ 0:45:31Mr. Burgum: Reauthorization for an additional five years what I can help us to protect these important resources. Through the fund the department invests in visitors centers and other assets of the visitors can continue to enjoy our national parks and public lands for years to come.
▶ 0:45:49Mr. Burgum: As we celebrate america's 250, parks, wildlife, across public lands, the drive tourism, create revenue while promoting responsible stewardship of natural resources.
▶ 0:46:10Mr. Burgum: The budget includes a new proposal for priority construction and beautification projects in and around the national capital region in order to address years and years of inadequate maintenance. The program will support the president's make america beautiful again agenda and improve safety and accessibility and rehabilitate historic buildings and landscapes and enhance the overall visitor experience of washington, D.C. and the surrounding area.
▶ 0:46:39Mr. Burgum: Iconic monuments, memorials, and landscapes supported by the projects will continue to be protected by the U.S. park police, which is a separate group founded by george washington in 1791. Under his leadership it has enabled them to expedite the hiring of more than 300 new officers to keep our national capital and national park areas in new york, san francisco, and the washington, D.C. region safe and beautiful.
▶ 0:47:09Mr. Burgum: The budget includes an increase of $111 million for these dedicated law enforcement officers and equipment and the tools that they need to operate as we see record fry visiting these locations during our 250. Simply put, the budget puts america and americans first while securing peace and prosperity for our future. I appreciate the support of the subcommittee for the departmental mission and I look forward to working closely with you to advance the presidential priorities. Thank you.
▶ 0:47:38Chair Murkowski: Thank you. We will now begin a round of questions. I'm going to insist that we keep our comments to five minutes so that we can get to a second round and also recognizing how much is on everyone's plate. I will set the standard here and keep my remarks and your responses to less than five minutes. As I mentioned, Mr.
▶ 0:48:02Chair Murkowski: Secretary, this is, this is a department that really relies on the good men and women and everything you outlined in your opening statement in terms of priorities.
▶ 0:48:18Chair Murkowski: Whether it is building out and executing on the original or first day executive orders to unleash the alaska resource potential, or whether it is the management of our parks, it all requires people. South, you and I have talked a lot about probate and I'm going to actually use my time here this morning to raise that first.
▶ 0:48:40Chair Murkowski: This is something that is not only fixable and manageable, but something that in fairness is contributing to the issue of housing shortages in my state. And I'm sure it is in others as well. When you have someone who passes in the home cannot be occupied until they resolve the probate, families that have been living there are now literally locked out.
▶ 0:49:10Chair Murkowski: When you say that it takes five years to 10 years to resolve something like this, that's unacceptable. I need you to explain to the community how the proposed budget and staffing levels are actually going to reduce the probate backlog not only in my state but across the country as they plan to hire more ftes. The timeline on all of this and how many probate cases do you think you will be able to clear in the next year?
▶ 0:49:37Chair Murkowski: We have talked about this, specific strike teams that have gone to a couple of areas. But we need to know that we are actually going to see some results this year that will be significant for the people and families who are waiting. >> thank you, chairwoman. Thank you for caring deeply about this issue. As we discussed, when I got to the department I was surprised to find out the extent last year.
▶ 0:50:05Chair Murkowski: Took a while, our systems are so antiquated, many of them on paper, it took a while to get a handle on it but in the last month now we have gotten our arms around the scale of the problem. 43,000 cases need to be resolved. It's unacceptable that this would take, as you suggested, eight years at current pace.
▶ 0:50:26Chair Murkowski: We have established strike teams in recon the areas of high concentration, like the navajo nation, where we had an extraordinary number of cases. We would be happy to share it with you. For the first time ever with a publicly facing dashboard where tribal members will be able to go and take a look and understand the data and how we are moving this work.
▶ 0:50:53Chair Murkowski: Will they be able to track their own cases?
▶ 0:50:56Mr. Burgum: They will actually be able to submit online. Right now, the process is you either have to walk into an office or you call into a call center. And we started engaging with them through the mail. We sent documents back and forth . People, we talk about staffing, we have people at the interior at copy machines and licking stamps to try to move the process. That's how antiquated it is.
▶ 0:51:25Mr. Burgum: Moving online will dread it -- dramatically increase our capability. We are not applying ai to do the work, but we have applied it to go through those 43,000 cases and say how many are missing only one document to get it over the finish line?
▶ 0:51:41Mr. Burgum: Pulling those out and concentrating on getting a bunch of them off the table into the finish line on the dollar side, there is a 700 $30 million in assets estimated that you described, homes and mineral acres that belong to tribal members. So, taking a look at that and saying -- do we have 10% of the cases that represent?
▶ 0:52:09Mr. Burgum: Or 20% that represent 80% of the revenue? How do we get the dollars out? At the end of the day, getting people back the resources that are there in the trust is a part of what we need to do.
▶ 0:52:20Chair Murkowski: Let me also ask about the office of hearing, it's not just a bia where we have the problem. We've got a big vacancy rate there. We need not only the judges, but the staff. Half of those positions, my understanding is, are not filled, several regions with high vacancy rates, over 30% for some of these.
▶ 0:52:47Chair Murkowski: I need to know that when we are talking about what is going on within bia, that we are also looking at oha and how we address that. You know my issues. We need to be working to address this. It's something I hear about everywhere I go in the state and my five minutes are up.
▶ 0:53:12Mr. Burgum: Those positions are open, we are hiring and providing hr support to get those positions filled. Absolutely, chairwoman, we need those to clear the backlog.
▶ 0:53:24Chair Murkowski: Thank you for acknowledging that.
▶ 0:53:29Senator: Thank you very much, madam chair. You mentioned the great american outdoors act in your introductory comments. Have 310 million that the administration can spend right now in the context of washington, D.C. the law requires submitting a detailed list of what's going to be done with those funds.
▶ 0:53:58Senator: I have it here from the administration and all it says is tbd. It's a very specific set of funding. And yet, surely you must have a list of what you plan to do with that money and what you are providing to congress is simply tbd, to be determined. Have you not figured out what you want to do with those funds and if you haven't figured it out, why not?
▶ 0:54:23Mr. Burgum: We will work with you, senator, to get to the information you need regarding those projects. As you know, the budget came out at the end of january for this fiscal year. Lrf hasn't been authorized yet, but if you're talking about the dollars in the accrued interest account, that list is still being worked on.
▶ 0:54:54Sen. Merkley: You've asked for an additional 10 billion for the presidential capital stewardship program. Can you give us a detailed list of what's to be done with those funds so that we can exercise our appropriate responsibility?
▶ 0:55:09Mr. Burgum: We will get you everything that you need according to the law.
▶ 0:55:14Sen. Merkley: If you agree that we should not provide the funds to be efficient with the money, we should leave it in the bank?
▶ 0:55:24Mr. Burgum: I think that what this committee understands and knows is that we have a $35 billion backlog of deferred maintenance.
▶ 0:55:33Sen. Merkley: Which would make it easy to give us a specific list, but if it's a slush fund, a better approach for fiscal year 26 would be a detailed representation of how that's to be spent. I'm just asking you to abide by the law and not turn into a slush fund. Can you do that?
▶ 0:55:53Mr. Burgum: It's a mischaracterization and offense --
▶ 0:55:57Sen. Merkley: Thank you. As long as we don't have the details, it's a slush fund. You can call it something else if you want. Let's turn to a few other pieces of this. I am very concerned about the communication with the committee .
▶ 0:56:18Sen. Merkley: This oversight committee has been shut out of information from the department even though we strengthened our reprogramming departments by adding advanced notification requirements into the statute. But we haven't been notified in advance of the recent deferred resignation offers or the creation of the minerals administration that both clearly fall under our statutory requirement.
▶ 0:56:41Sen. Merkley: We have not received several other items required by law, land water conservation funds, supplemental lists required for the presidential budget. We don't have the project data shoots for the national parks service, 310 million as mentioned. Seven months of 216 reports. Big bend, texas and north cascades, washington. It is certainly a pattern.
▶ 0:57:09Sen. Merkley: I recognize that the department of the interior has a vast and complex enterprise. Can you strive and assure us you will strive to actually meet the statutory requirements so that we can do our best job in fulfilling our responsibility?
▶ 0:57:25Mr. Burgum: Yes.
▶ 0:57:27Sen. Merkley: Thank you, appreciate that. I'm very concerned, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, about the politicization of the land water conservation fund. In fiscal year 25, 26, and 27, with few exceptions the department has only proposed projects in redd stateser. I don't think that's the way to go.
▶ 0:57:54Sen. Merkley: Can you commit to taking the partisanship out of that process and serving all of america?
▶ 0:58:00Mr. Burgum: I can say that I haven't been involved in any decisions that were politically driven other than prioritization and I think that some republicans would take issue with it, adding $1 billion to spend and half of it going to california, people wondered why it wasn't being spent in red states.
▶ 0:58:20Mr. Burgum: When we have a shortage of money to spend, wherever we spend it people can draw conclusions but the only way to do that is to fund deferred maintenance across all the agencies.
▶ 0:58:31Sen. Merkley: I am out of time.
▶ 0:58:32Chair Murkowski: Thank you. We are being really good, we set a great example in keeping to our five minutes. Senator hoeven?
▶ 0:58:44Senator Hoeven: [inaudible] >> are you sure? >> ok, I'm going.
▶ 0:58:52Chair Murkowski: I want you to only. [laughter]
▶ 0:58:57Senator Hoeven: Thank you for your service. The eastern north dakota alternative water supply municipal residential industrial water supply for all of eastern north dakota, we've been able to secure 100 58,000,004 through the one beautiful bill and the appropriations process last year.
▶ 0:59:20Senator Hoeven: In addition, we were able to use the mccluskey canal because of legislation and completing the environmental impact statement that is about a 200 million dollars savings to taxpayers and a benefit to the project that we now don't have to fund with building other structures. It will also save about 4 million per year. $350 million in terms of progress that we made.
▶ 0:59:45Senator Hoeven: In terms of the federal obligation to fund that long-standing, it goes back 50 years or more. Matching that commitment made by the state of north dakota as well as many local communities, I think more than 30 that have stepped up. The federal government is matching its chair and has obligated to do so.
▶ 1:00:10Senator Hoeven: Will you continue to help us to fund and complete that vitally important project for all of eastern north dakota? And parts of minnesota, to.
▶ 1:00:19Mr. Burgum: I would say it with a smile on my face. That project has been going on so long, senator dornan and senator conrad work on it for decades. It had been a blue state project and now it's a red state project and it's a perfect example of doing the right thing for the people.
▶ 1:00:38Mr. Burgum: You and I know from your positions, they get a higher percentage of their share in terms of any other water project in the country and the best way to prioritize is which states are willing to put up more money, extending the dollars even further. It's absolutely true and your help is much appreciated there.
▶ 1:01:00Sen. Hoeven: In theater roosevelt national park, which you have the opportunity to visit on occasion, we have wild horses there and they are very important not only to the pc of stork -- dakota's, but to visitors who come to see them. I've got legislation along with senator kaine to protect those horses.
▶ 1:01:25Sen. Hoeven: We are following the approach taken on the east coast with some of the ponies that they have on some of those islands in the national parks. Do you support that legislation and will you help us to enact it?
▶ 1:01:35Mr. Burgum: Entirely support you on that project. The management by theater roosevelt national park, unlike the challenges we have on that blm land in nevada where we have 85,000 wild burros and horses, the management of the approximately 200 or so horses in the park is exemplary in terms of how a park should do it in a park that size and you've been instrumental in working that when you were governor and senator.
▶ 1:02:03Mr. Burgum: Thank you for helping to preserve that great element of the park.
▶ 1:02:07Sen. Hoeven: In fact, we provide for that management to make sure we don't have an issue in terms of the health and diversity of the herd. That's an important point, thank you for bringing it up. At camp grafton we have a bia law enforcement training center and have had incredible enrollment. Again, artesia, new mexico, done an incredible job of in the upper planes. We need the law enforcement training as well.
▶ 1:02:39Sen. Hoeven: We are really behind or down in terms of filling those vacancies on reservations. We have made great progress there in developing that center and in growing it. Will you commit to helping us continue to do that?
▶ 1:02:57Mr. Burgum: Absolutely. As governor I also supported in champion did this. I know you've been a great champion of it, right adjacent to the spirit lake tribal nation . Perfect location. Again, part of it is recruiting and retaining people from the northern tribes, which has been difficult, but having a training center closer to where people have grown up closer to where the tribes are going to work will definitely help us on retention.
▶ 1:03:24Sen. Merkley: -- Sen. hoeven: tell us about the importance of multiple use with good chic -- good stewardship on public lands.
▶ 1:03:34Mr. Burgum: First of all, it's the law. When public lands were set aside under the multiuse doctrine, including access for appropriate mineral development, ranching, timber, you know, we went down a path in this country where, somehow people thought that if it was public land you are not supposed to cut a tree or set a foot on it, you weren't supposed to develop minerals or do energy production. That's not how this was set up and that is not the law.
▶ 1:04:04Mr. Burgum: The law is a multiple use doctrine and we are working to make sure that happens.
▶ 1:04:09Chair Murkowski: Thank you. Senator heinrich?
▶ 1:04:14Senator Heinrich: I want to start with kluwer property, funded in fy 25 on the list. It seems to be hung up, but I've been told is that it is "under review." this is a project that we, I think, need to make good to the folks who came to the federal government and said we want this to be part of the overlook for the rio grande
▶ 1:04:44Senator Heinrich: Gorge. They are not my constituents, but I think it is very important that when the federal government makes a commitment, we stand by it. It has been hung up for quite a while. What's a reasonable time for me to get a response from the department on when that will be moving forward?
▶ 1:05:03Mr. Burgum: I appreciate you bringing it up to me this morning and bringing it back to the top. From when I was made aware of it coming in here, I haven't had a chance to find out the timeline, but I will commit to getting that to you within the next 24 hours.
▶ 1:05:20Sen. Heinrich: Appreciate that very much. Your department recently announced plans to reverse the mineral withdrawal around chaco canyon national historic park. I would be remiss if I didn't point out that that is over the objection of the new mexico governor, land commissioner, myself, the junior senator from new mexico, the entire congressional delegation.
▶ 1:05:51Sen. Heinrich: You know, even secretary bernhardt, who visited chaco canyon with me, came to a different conclusion in the first trump administration. So, I'm concerned that there have one, been no scheduled public meetings around this reversal and no opportunity for general public comment.
▶ 1:06:12Sen. Heinrich: The only opportunity for comment was a very short seven-day scoping period in contrast to the withdrawal itself, which took a year and a half with a total of 150 days for public comment, multiple public meetings. I think that there were five.
▶ 1:06:35Sen. Heinrich: So, I don't expect that I am going to be able to persuade you to necessarily reverse your position on this, but one thing I think you commented strenuously about in your confirmation hearing was the need for actual, direct engagement and consultation with tribal nations.
▶ 1:06:57Sen. Heinrich: So, I have heard from multiple tribal nations that have not received an opportunity for direct tribal consultation. So, I would ask you that if you can commit to completing individual in person consultation, with the tribal nations, with the pueblos that have a direct relationship to that landscape, before completing your review.
▶ 1:07:22Mr. Burgum: I would be happy to commit to that. I think that since you are so close, you may not know that this is a -- I don't want to elevate it to tribal versus tribal, but while they supported those first people in my office, the navajo did not, I would say, as a tribe, but from the tribal citizens who had the energy allotment.
▶ 1:07:50Sen. Heinrich: It's a complicated issue. There are 19 tribes who consider this a sacred space. New mexico produces a lot of energy and we produce more oil and gas than 49 of the 50 states. But we don't drill in sacred spaces. There has been a general consensus that this is one of those places that should receive additional protection.
▶ 1:08:19Sen. Heinrich: Setting that aside, I think the direct consultation is very important. I'm running out of time. The chair, she stuffed. I want to talk about the national parks service. In the first 11 months of this administration the parts service lost 2750 employees. That's 15% of the workforce. It is now down around 24%. This budget proposes an additional reduction of 25%.
▶ 1:08:51Sen. Heinrich: We are coming up on the 250th anniversary of this incredible nation. Why is our national parks -- I mean, the parts service is the easiest thing we do on this committee. We fight about all kinds of stuff, but we all have park units that are incredibly important to our national history and our individual states. Why is the parts service not more of a priority in the budget?
▶ 1:09:18Mr. Burgum: The question we are trying to ask is why did so many people who work for the national parks service not work in a park? What we are driving towards, because again even the ranking's opening remarks talk about rangers and snowplow drivers and maintenance workers in whatever. Our goal is to have more people actually working in the parks, if we could have more people in the parks and still have what looks like a dramatic percentage of reduction.
▶ 1:09:47Sen. Heinrich: I think you will find a lot of support for putting more people in the parks. I visited three in the last month and they were all understaffed.
▶ 1:09:57Mr. Burgum: We have -- there's 5500 summer positions that were set up last fall for hiring and with your support, I want to thank the committee. One thing put in the bill last year gave us the opportunity to do local hiring for the first time. So, if we have someone who lives locally and has housing, they can be hired instead of going through a federal system the takes forever to hire.
▶ 1:10:25Mr. Burgum: We have 590 full-time positions that could also qualify for the local hiring. Summer and part, a budget that allows them to be up to nine months instead of six, giving the superintendents more flexibility in hiring.
▶ 1:10:45Mr. Burgum: We have seen a number of people increasing the number of people in the parks, expanding this time frame on summer and seasonal hiring that will help us to get in shape. Even with the overall reduction, I'm sure that will fill up more money for the capital expenditures.
▶ 1:11:04Sen. Heinrich: I've seen in the regional offices but haven't seen it at the actual park units, I think that's the concern.
▶ 1:11:11Chair Murkowski: I do think that this is an area where you are going to find a lot of support across the dais for our national parks. So, we want to continue this aspect of the discussion, to ensure that we do have good folks in these positions. I like what is being opened up with regards to the local hiring .
▶ 1:11:37Chair Murkowski: I think it helps our communities it is a good step, but know that this is an issue of mutual concern. Let's turn to senator o.
▶ 1:11:47Senator O: Sticking to the national parks, we have a relatively new in 2020, president trump signed into law the new river gorge national park preserve and it has far exceeded the economic benefits of the region. People from all over the world are visiting are really excited about that. In order to make advise against visitor fees for the gorge or any of the other parks.
▶ 1:12:19Senator O: Where are you? I read that you were going to raise fees. Where are you on that?
▶ 1:12:26Mr. Burgum: No rise for americans, but we did put an international visitor fee in place to put us and live with what international flagship parks charge americans.
▶ 1:12:38Mr. Burgum: -- Sen. capito: is that in effect now?
▶ 1:12:42Mr. Burgum: It is in some of the flagship parks. I don't know if it applies to new river gorge.
▶ 1:12:50Sen. Capito: It was just announced that one of our own west virginians is coming home to be new superintendent. There's been a history at the park that he has shared responsibilities for with another park. I would like your assurance that Mr. reveille will be there as a superintendent solely dedicated to that facility.
▶ 1:13:12Mr. Burgum: You can have our commitment on that and we are excited about ross taking the role. Glad you had a west virginian taking that. I had a chance to float it before it was a national park and its spectacular.
▶ 1:13:29Sen. Capito: It really is, it was called the most underrated national park in the system. I'm glad that senator heinrich is here, I wanted to talk about something here, a permitting reform. 1.2 billion on the sidelines because of outdated policies.
▶ 1:13:54Sen. Capito: They could be dedicated to quality of life projects, and unleashing investments and unlocking supply of essential commodities, all kinds of things . In your role as chair of the dominance counsel, you see it yourself. We need to learn from the existing system failures in craft solutions that lineup with what the american people want and need to. Including opportunity.
▶ 1:14:21Sen. Capito: As a chair of the epw committee over on enr, senators lee and white house and I, this is our best opportunity here we have had to make lasting changes to need both, substantive environmental laws, like the clean water and air act and endangered species.
▶ 1:14:43Sen. Capito: Improving this will I think cap vast legacy with who how would you discuss permitting reform in terms of economic growth? How do you see this?
▶ 1:14:54Mr. Burgum: I see it as essential, one of the core factors that's reducing american competitiveness worldwide. Capital wants to be spent here. You mentioned the $1.2 trillion. I think that number is low. But this is boards of directors, schools, cities, states have said we want to spend this money, and then they're all waiting for a permit. They spend their money, that means jobs. That means better infrastructure. That means safer communities. It is absolutely essential.
▶ 1:15:24Mr. Burgum: This is the moment, if there's anything we can do to help congress get the permitting bill over the line, happy to do it. Internally, we're doing a number of things to make sure that nipa and esa get back within the original law of what it was intended. As opposed to become weapons to stop development in america.
▶ 1:15:48Sen. Moore Capito: How would you frame this also? We see this president with his deregulation, which I welcome, and his executive orders, which I welcome. But we fully know that the previous administration had different executive orders and had different regulatory. How does the permanence of permitting reform in your mind bring about the lasting effect of predictability that's so critical?
▶ 1:16:13Mr. Burgum: Well, it adds durability, and then it allows projects to stand on their own merits as opposed to being weaponized so that every project, no matter what it is, a bridge, a road, a building, it doesn't have to be an energy product. Everything becomes politicize and had weaponized in this country. If we can't build things quickly, we're going to lose on the word stage. It's absolutely essential that this permitting bill because forward.
▶ 1:16:42Sen. Moore Capito: Thank you for what you've already done, and I know the folks working for you have been critical, and I want to thank my colleagues over on enr and others, many on this panel, that have been working on this. We're going to try to get to the finish line, but we need you and the administration with us as you have been, but to be successful. Thank you.
▶ 1:17:03Chair Murkowski: Thank you. We will now turn to the ranking member, senator murray.
▶ 1:17:09Sen. Murray: Thank you very much, chair murkowski, for your really important work. I think I share the passion with senator heinrich, that our national parks, what is involved in interior, is so critical to our economy here at home and to our people and to really the face of america, to many americans. So this is really an important topic we're on today, and I have some comments on that.
▶ 1:17:34Sen. Murray: But I wanted to ask you first, because last year when you were here, we talked about the critical need to repair the hurricane ridge day lodge. You're aware it's an historic lodge. It was burned down in a fire about three years ago. In 2024, I worked across the aisle to secure $80 million in emergency funding to rebuild that structure. Sincing that funding was secured, it has been waiting on the national park service to finalize a plan for reconstruction.
▶ 1:18:03Sen. Murray: I know you visited hurricane ridge. I hope you appreciated how important that facility is. It supports tourism in the entire region. It is critical to the safety of many of the people who visit there, and I wanted to ask you if you can share a progress report on the rebuilding effort.
▶ 1:18:19Mr. Burgum: I'm not current on that, senator, but having been to that site, I've taken an action right now to check on that today on where we're at and how we can move that forward.
▶ 1:18:30Sen. Murray: If you could get back to me and my staff, I would appreciate it. Mr. secretary, last year you told this committee that your work to force out one in five parks employees would somehow make the park service smarter, more effective. I've kind of heard the same words this morning. We're not seeing that in my state. When you visited olympic national park last year, you met with biologists. I think you'll remember, they were working to restore salmon in the river.
▶ 1:18:56Sen. Murray: Because of the administration's policies, olympic is down to just one permanent staffish ferries team. Mount rainier, critical to our country and region, they're down to four people on a road crew that used to have 14. These are people out in the parks. They're not sitting in a building someplace. In our north cascades, we need all the support it can because of severe flooding, you've eliminated staff to the point that they can't even open their visitors center now.
▶ 1:19:26Sen. Murray: So I wanted to ask you, what is your plan to get these basic services back up and running? It is unacceptable that they can't even staff a visitors center.
▶ 1:19:36Mr. Burgum: Well, we'll continue to work with each park, as we're having different results by different parks. I mean, some parks, even last year, had a higher number of people working in the parks than they had in prior years. And so we'll -- an action item here, I'll take the parks you mention and had make sure that we're providing all the support we need, because there's 5,500 summer hire recs. There's 593 full-time recs that are open for people to hire.
▶ 1:20:08Sen. Murray: I'm confused, because in this budget proposal, you're eliminating 3,000 national park staff, and a quart of oer of them have already been put out.
▶ 1:20:20Mr. Burgum: I wanted to clarify. Multiple people have been saying forced out. There's been no forcing of anything. These are all voluntary, and then we have on the list --
▶ 1:20:29Sen. Murray: Voluntarily left?
▶ 1:20:30Mr. Burgum: It's a voluntary early retirement program. There's nobody that's been forced out. Sen. murray now you're parsing words.
▶ 1:20:41Mr. Burgum: We offered early retirement, and they took it. Sen. murray, Mr. secretary, let me keep going.
▶ 1:20:48Mr. Burgum: If somebody does early retirement.
▶ 1:20:52Sen. Murray: I know what you're saying.
▶ 1:20:55Mr. Burgum: When think voluntarily leave, then if they put their name on the list and we say no, you're the only one doing that thing, we say we're sorry, we know you wanted to voluntarily retire, but you're not eligible for it. We refuse, we refused hundreds and hundreds of people.
▶ 1:21:10Sen. Murray: I only have a few minutes, and I want to tell you that you are asking us to follow your eliminate approximating,000 national park staff. However you want to put it, a quarter of them left over the last 15 months. You're proposing a 38% cut to parks facilities, operation and maintenance. These are the road crews, things like that. A 35% cut for support staff and over 50% of funding for resource.
▶ 1:21:37Sen. Murray: To me that is just a recipe for disaster for our parks. It will make them run less effectively, more dangerous for the people that visit. They don't have the staff and tools to support any kind of science or stewardship. I am deeply concerned about the budget that we're going to have to look at here that you've proposed. I want you to know from, on the ground, that is what we are seeing and hearing and feeling. And by the way, you just talked about staff leaving.
▶ 1:22:08Sen. Murray: You are actually deflating seasonal hires with permanent staff when you throw the numbers together. But my time is almost up, and I do want to ask -- I want to ask you a question. Since president trump put his face on the national park, has he visited a single one of our national parks since he was sworn in?
▶ 1:22:27Mr. Burgum: To that, I'm not certain about the president. He's got a very, very heavy travel schedule, and I'm not concern of that or not -- certain of that or not.
▶ 1:22:38Sen. Murray: I was passing that question on from people who asked me. Have you ever visited one of these.
▶ 1:22:46Mr. Burgum: He's been to many places that are managed by the national park system.
▶ 1:22:49Sen. Murray: I'm talking about our national parks. That's the park passes people have.
▶ 1:22:54Mr. Burgum: The park passes also apply to our sites, military sites, military cemeteries. He's been to many places managed by the national park service.
▶ 1:23:04Sen. Measure You: We have a difference of opinion, ok. Secretary burgum, you are here to ask for a question for your budget. It's hard to talk about next year's funding when a lot of this year's funding has not gone out the your. Tour agency has been sitting on critical funding for the european green crab. This is a population that is not slowing down. It's why multiple federal agencies have invested in monitoring and mitigation, including the department of interior.
▶ 1:23:32Sen. Measure You: So I just want you to know, from our end, you've dropped the ball, and we need to see that money go out the door, and I wanted to ask you, when is that money going to go out the door?
▶ 1:23:44Mr. Burgum: I'm not familiar with the european green crab budget number, but I will certainly check into that.
▶ 1:23:52Sen. Murray: It's money that's suppose to go out the door, and it's sitting there and not going out the door. Can you get back to me with an answer?
▶ 1:24:00Mr. Burgum: Absolutely.
▶ 1:24:00Sen. Murray: Well, I am concerned about this budget request that we have that defunds our tribes, pushes out park employees, it freezes and ignores laws that we've passed. And I think it is really critical that we all face up to the reality of these are our national parks. It's our families visit. It's where our communities depend on them. They are the fatal of our nation, to both national and international travelers.
▶ 1:24:28Sen. Murray: We have a responsibility to make sure they are up and running correctly. I look forward to working with you.
▶ 1:24:33Chair Murkowski: Thank you to the rookying member. Just to the secretary, the green crabs, they came north from washington state. We don't want them either.
▶ 1:24:43Sen. Murray: Well, we didn't start them.
▶ 1:24:45Chair Murkowski: We're not going to argue about that, but none of us want it. Senator rand?
▶ 1:24:51Sen. Rand: Thank you, madam chair. Mr. secretary, good morning. One of the top priorities for the she yen river sioux tribe is construction of a new school in eagle view. Current one was built early 1970's.
▶ 1:25:11Sen. Rand: The current school is in desperate need of replacement and has been at the top of the bureau of indian affairs, the bureau of indian education's new school replacement list for a number of years. Despite this, it is unclear both to my office and to the tribe what the long-term plan to fund the replacement project is. Could you share with me what the plan would be to fully fund the school replacement project at cheyenne eagle view?
▶ 1:25:40Sen. Rand: I recognize you probably got a ton of these things there. If you don't have the information or if you're not familiar with it, would you get back to me with what the plan is?
▶ 1:25:50Mr. Burgum: Happy to get back with you with more details, but I am familiar. This is such a large and important project. I know over $200 million has already been set aside for this project. Of course, there's a discussion going on on scoping, and I think there's a difference of opinion on the scoping, because, of course, with this project is so substantial and improved local infrastructure, includes housing for teachers, because it's a remote area.
▶ 1:26:18Mr. Burgum: There's inflationary aspects because of getting contractors into that area. But I think there still is several hundred million dollar differential between one of the estimates for what it would take to do everything on the plan versus what it would take to get a school open. So working through and getting agreement on that, and if we can work with your office to help get to a number, we can help get this project going forward.
▶ 1:26:45Mr. Burgum: But be one of the largest projects we're doing in the country.
▶ 1:26:48Sen. Rounds: That's correct, sir. It's been a long time in the making. The school is simply worn out.
▶ 1:26:55Mr. Burgum: There's no doubt about that. There's no doubt about the need.
▶ 1:26:58Sen. Rounds: I am concerned about that, I think earlier there was an indication that 85% of school funding has been cut was the comment made earlier by the ranking member. Could you comment on that a little bit about how that works into the planning and so forth? I don't know that you've had an opportunity to respond on that earlier.
▶ 1:27:16Mr. Burgum: Well, I didn't, but there's definitely not enough money across this entire school system that we have nationally to go build all these new buildings. Because the appropriations just aren't going to be there. I mean, we aren't going to see that.
▶ 1:27:30Mr. Burgum: But I think the thing to focus on is the 105 capability, where if you could get a commitment with the federal government to say we're going to pay a lease, and then somebody else works on building it, and whether that's a bond from the state, a bond from some other group, but maybe in conjunction with the $200 million we've already allocated.
▶ 1:27:52Mr. Burgum: But I think we have to sit down and come up with a financing package the way school districts have to do around our country if we're trying to build new schools of this scale and see if we can work it through. But the number, the numbers go through the roof if you say that through appropriations through this committee we're going to fund all the schools we need in the country, I think there's going to be a financing component here as well.
▶ 1:28:18Sen. Rounds: I think the fact this has been number one on the list for some time is the reason I'm putting an emphasis on it. It's a rural area, but nonetheless, it serves a lot of kids. I appreciate you working with our office, and I look forward to finding a path forward.
▶ 1:28:32Mr. Burgum: We appreciate you championing it on behalf of the tribe.
▶ 1:28:35Sen. Rounds: Thank you, sir. I was glad to see that the bureau of indian affairs' fy27 budget request ask support funding for tribal radio stations in indian country. The role of these stations play a critical role in providing essential and emergency information to tribal communities. We worked on this last year, o.m.b. Came through, put the resources together.
▶ 1:29:03Sen. Rounds: It's a lot of money, $12 million. Can he share how important it is for these tribal radio stations to continue to be funded?
▶ 1:29:10Mr. Burgum: Well, I think as anybody that spent time in indian country in states like ours in the west, senator, land lines are not a thing in many parts of the rural residence. Cell service is sketchy, even though some of the tribes run their own cellular programs. Radio is often the only way people reach information.
▶ 1:29:34Mr. Burgum: And whether it's winter storms or tornadoes, prairie fires, there's real need for emergency information to be distributed to the population, and I know that the tribal chairs and the tribal councils all count on this for getting information out, not just about emergencies, but events going on in the community and about important things that people of the tribal members need to know. So again, thank you for being such a strong champion.
▶ 1:30:05Sen. Rounds: We appreciate it. My time is expired, but I will put together a question for the record regarding law enforcement and appropriate law enforcement punting for some of our huge sized tribes in the geographic area, that perhaps in the formula, if not fairly represented in terms of the actual costs versus some of the smaller tribes with a higher population, but what the challenges are there, and perhaps we can work on modifications to some of the guidelines for how those funds
▶ 1:30:36Sen. Rounds: Are distributed in the future, sir.
▶ 1:30:39Romaine: I would welcome that, because it's absolutely true. I know that we share a standing rock between north and south dakota. It's about the size of connecticut. We have other tribes that might have the same population, but they're in the size of a small metro area versus the size of the state. It requires different levels of law enforcement, just from those response times.
▶ 1:31:06Sen. Rounds: Thank you, sir. Madam chair?
▶ 1:31:09Chair Murkowski: Thank you. Senator bald-run, you are recognized.
▶ 1:31:13Sen. Baldwin: Thank you. The right to protection implementation line in the interior and environment appropriations bill helps fulfill federal treaties, trust, and contract obligations to tribes. In the great lakes region, the great lakes indian fish and wildlife commission, otherwise known as glifwic, has comprehensive conservation, natural resource protection, and law enforcement programs.
▶ 1:31:41Sen. Baldwin: I'm deeply concerned that president trump's budget propose to see slash this funding by 85%. With a cut that deep, they would be unable to maintain its basic function. So secretary burgum, could you do you agree with the president's proposed 85% cut to the rights protection implementation line item?
▶ 1:32:08Sen. Baldwin: And can you speak to your commitment to helping ensure that the department fulfills federal treaty trust and contract obligations to tribes and has the resources to actually do so?
▶ 1:32:22Mr. Burgum: Well, I certainly can't, party of our job is to fill those treaty obligations. I think one of the things, on this one, if we can have a conversation with your staff and my staff, there is some thought about potential duplication or other alternative programs through whether U.S.
▶ 1:32:42Mr. Burgum: Fish and wildlife, we are trying to gain some if she as with the $178 million that would come over from nola to U.S. fish and wildlife, two of them make the redid you understand danny is of trying to management two separate staffs, two separate endangered fish lists. So I think there's some thinking that with the work that was going on there, that that frees up having to do some of this in a third area through grants inside of v.I.a.
▶ 1:33:15Mr. Burgum: The mission needs to be accomplished, that we don't need sometimes three different federal agencies trying to do the same thing.
▶ 1:33:23Sen. Baldwin: In terms the support this particular line item gives to glifwic in the great lakes, they would simply be unable to fulfill these important functions and missions. Changing subjects, wisconsin is directly in the path of the mississippi flyway.
▶ 1:33:43Sen. Baldwin: It's a bird migration route that significantly contributes, unfortunately, to the transmission of avian influenza, which in turn spills over into domestic poultry flock. This spring in wisconsin, we lost over 4.3 million hens to the outbreak and had two farms, that in combination laid off 87 employees. The U.S.
▶ 1:34:10Sen. Baldwin: Fish and wildlife service is stat early to responsible for monitoring wild bird populations for avian flu. Your budget proposes significant resource reductions that would undercut this responsibility. So my questions are these.
▶ 1:34:27Sen. Baldwin: Under the proposed cuts to staffing and agency resources, what is your plan to maintain early detection surveillance for avian flu in wild birds along major flyway, like the mississippi, and how will the department notify wisconsin's poultry producers and public health officials if that surveillance capacity is no longer sufficient and you are unable to provide timely warnings of an outbreak?
▶ 1:34:56Mr. Burgum: Of course, the plan and the goal is to make sure that we are providing sufficient coverage for that. But as I've described, with the park service, the same thing with U.S. fish and wildlife, there have been many decades, there are many layers that are built up, and we're trying to reduce overhead, put more people on the front of the lines, and less h.r., less coms people, more biologists is where we're trying to get to.
▶ 1:35:25Mr. Burgum: So again, as we are trying to hire back the positions we need and reduce the ones where we could be a bit leaner to help us maintain the core functions of what we're there to do.
▶ 1:35:38Sen. Baldwin: I'm going to take the last question for the record, because I think we'll run out of time. The upper midwest environmental sciences center in lacrosse has been conducting ecological research on the upper mississippi river for decades now. It employs 86 people and leads the nation's research on blocking invasive carp from entering the great lakes. And this work protects the fishery industry worth billions of dollars.
▶ 1:36:06Sen. Baldwin: Your fiscal year 2026 and now fiscal year 2027 budget proposal with zero out the ecosystem mission area and decommission this facility, this is something that congress rejected last year. Your budget document now suggests this work could be picked up by states and universities.
▶ 1:36:28Sen. Baldwin: So I ask, which state or university has agreed to take over the work of the upper midwest environmental sciences center?
▶ 1:36:37Mr. Burgum: Those conversations haven't been initiated. If there was support from this body to do that or suggestions on who might we partner with, even in your state, we'd be happy to conduct those.
▶ 1:36:53Sen. Baldwin: I will submit an additional question for the record, thank you.
▶ 1:36:56Chair Murkowski: Thank you, senator baldwin. Senator husted, you are recognized.
▶ 1:37:01Sen. Husted: Thank you. I thank you for being here today. As someone from ohio who has witnessed over the course of the last 20-plus years, the closure of power plant after power plant after power plant of electric generation across the ohio river valley, we now find ourselves in a situation where we have the supply and demand problem,
▶ 1:37:31Sen. Husted: Because on the other side of that equation, we've had more manufacturing, more demand for electricity for electric cars, and certainly from data centers that power the digital economy. And so I was thrilled to see the trump administration come to ohio a few weeks ago to talk about the ground breaking potential for a $33 billion natural gas power facility at the portsmouth diffusion plant
▶ 1:38:02Sen. Husted: In piketon. The people there are hopeful, but they've disappointed before, both administrations of the past that promise they would do things and then didn't do it.
▶ 1:38:18Sen. Husted: And I know you're just one part of the conversation with other departments, and I was just curious what you could tell me about your role in that and what we need to do to scale, because we sit atop of the sh ooh le in that area, so we can supply a lot of gas to power the plant.
▶ 1:38:43Sen. Husted: Do we have the infrastructure in price? What do you need from the state of ohio? And what role will you play in this and what can you tell me about the project?
▶ 1:38:54Mr. Burgum: Senator, first of all, very exciting project, and as you noted at the top of your remarks, we need to reverse this trend of shutting down a base load in this country. There's an ideology that said if we transition from our stable and our secure and our U.S.-based 7x24 reliable, affordable energy to something that was intermittent and
▶ 1:39:25Mr. Burgum: Weather dependent, that that transition would lead to lower costs, it led to higher costs for consumers. And then in the advent, which I described, the big test demand pressure for electricity in any of our lifetimes, the miracle that america helped figure out how to turn electricity into light and heat, ■but to turn it into intelligence, that's an entirely new thing. The demand for electricity is skyrocketing.
▶ 1:39:48Mr. Burgum: The project, like the one you're describing in ohio, where you take all of this amazing natural gas that we have as a country and be able to turn it into power right there, and then utilize much of that power right there, it's a triple win. It's a win for the country. It's a win for ohio. It's a win for affordability, because there's no cost related to transmission. The power is general right 7x24, not just when the sun is shining and the wind is blowing.
▶ 1:40:15Mr. Burgum: So it is the lowest cost energy we can produce right now, natural gas, gas through electricity, and, of course, states that support projects like this are going see a wave of capital investment, because the advanced manufacturing and distribution are going to require more electricity in their plants going forward, whether it's because of the use of intelligence or the use of robotics. And so we're going to see capital flowing to the places where there is power and affordable, reliable power. Ohio is one of those places.
▶ 1:40:45Mr. Burgum: It's great that ohio is embracing this. We have other states, theirs legislators are banning artificial intelligence manufacturing. I mean, that's like saying we don't want any capital investment in the future. When I was governor, every governor was competing with every other governor to get capital to come to their states. Now some states are saying they don't want it. Ohio has a winning strategy. This is very exciting project.
▶ 1:41:10Mr. Burgum: And we will do everything across the energy dominance council, whether it's working with the e.p.a., working with permitting, to make sure we can cut red tape, follow all the laws, and get projects like this going, because it's important to national competitiveness and security.
▶ 1:41:27Sen. Husted: Thank you for that. It's super important we keep the state of ohio informed. I would very much like to be informed to let us know what impediments make this. We have supply and demand problem. Shutting down all those power plants was a mistake. It left us vulnerable, and it's driving up people's electricity prices, and it's wrong, and we got to get new supply in the market as fast as we can. This announcement from the administration is welcome news to that.
▶ 1:41:55Sen. Husted: I just want toen courage us to go as fast as possible, because people are depending on it.
▶ 1:42:00Mr. Burgum: Thank you for acknowledging the shutdowns. With the secretary wright and the rest of the administration using all of our authority, we were able to keep 17 gigawatts of base load open in the last 15 months that would have been prematurely shut down. Without that, during winter storm fern, we would have had tens of millions of americans out of power for weeks because we were running right on the red line two months ago in terms of not having enough base load power for the grid to operate.
▶ 1:42:28Chair Murkowski: Thank you, senator husted. It's good to have you on the committee. Senator van hollen?
▶ 1:42:35Sen. Val Hollen: Mr. secretary, last time we had a hearing like this, part of the appropriations process, I emphasized the importance of the health of the chesapeake bay and the important role that the department of interior plays in that. You assured me you would be a good partner in that effort. I'm disappointed that the budget once again calls for cuts in the department of interior programs that most benefit the bay.
▶ 1:43:03Sen. Val Hollen: Fish and wildlife program, a program in the geological survey. I will once again work my colleagues on a bipartisan basis to make sure that we restore that funding or make sure that it continues at current levels. Another local issue of grace importance in this region has to do with the national links trust. And you terminated the lease held by the national links trust with three historic D.C.
▶ 1:43:34Sen. Val Hollen: Municipal golf courses that have long provided residents in this region with affordable access to golf. The east potomac golf links, langston golf includes, and rock creek park golf. Secretary, are you a golfer yourself?
▶ 1:43:47Mr. Burgum: A couple of times a year, but I'm not sure anybody would call me a golfer.
▶ 1:43:52Sen. Van Hollen: You're probably like me. I have played at the rock creek park golf course, and these golf courses are intended to provide an affordable experience for people. So it's very troubling that right now, at the east potomac golf links, it's being used as a place to deposit debris from the president's east wing ballroom expansion. Here's my question to you.
▶ 1:44:22Sen. Van Hollen: Is your intention to make sure all three of these golf courses remain available and accessible and affordable for golfers in this region?
▶ 1:44:30Mr. Burgum: Absolutely.
▶ 1:44:32Sen. Van Hollen: Ok. Could you respond to a letter that senator alsobrooks wrote to you?
▶ 1:44:40Mr. Burgum: I haven't seen it, but I'll be happy to respond.
▶ 1:44:45Sen. Val Hollen: Your team has it. They should be providing those letters to you for a response. I want to ask you about the national park system and the trump executive order to try to rewrite history.
▶ 1:44:59Sen. Val Hollen: I think a lot of us were troubled that this administration decided to keep free access days and added one for flag day, which happens to be the president's birthday. But terminate it for Dr. king day and juneteenth.
▶ 1:45:25Sen. Val Hollen: I mean, that was just outrageous symbolism, but unfortunately expresses, I guess, the sentiment of this administration who h seeks to divide the country and not unite the country. You've also gone about changing some of the descriptions at various national parks, including in philadelphia and harper's ferry. I wrote to you, along with some of my colleagues, about the changes at harper's ferry. Can you commit to responding to that letter?
▶ 1:45:52Mr. Burgum: Yes, I can.
▶ 1:45:56Sen. Van Hollen: Another great marylander was harriet tubman of the underground railroad. Mr. secretary, what do you think about when you hear about harriet tubman and the underground railroad? What's the story there?
▶ 1:46:08Mr. Burgum: Let me respond first, senator. I was just at harpers ferry on saturday, and I did not see any -- I saw a signage that needed to be replaced because of maintenance, hard to read, and was deteriorated. But I didn't see anything that was related to what you're describing, so I'd love to have more information.
▶ 1:46:32Sen. Val Hollen: There's been a lot of reporting on this, and this is one of the reasons we sent you a letter on that. If there's no change that you know of, concerns have been raised to us, and we're happy to bring specifics to your attention. On the question of harriet tubman and the underground railroad, what do you think about when you hear that story?
▶ 1:46:50Mr. Burgum: Well, oddly, and this is a deeply personal, but my great-grand mother was the first woman in dakota territory with a college education. She got a college degree from overland college -- oberlin college. She was a remarkable woman. Shortly after college, she was personally involved during the civil war of helping freed men, as she called them, she wrote a book. Her name is linda slaughter.
▶ 1:47:22Mr. Burgum: She was actively involved herself in the underground railroad, and it's how she ended up meeting my great-grandfather, who was a surgeon for the union army, and they ended up moving to north dakota. So I think harriet tubman is a historical figure that was part of this important movement.
▶ 1:47:39Sen. Val Hollen: Harriet tubman, she's a great american, and also a great marylander. Would you agree with the following statement? The underground railroad, the resistant through escape flight through the end of the civil war referred to the efforts of enslaved african-americans to gain their freedom by escaping bondage, would you agree that's a pretty good summary of what the underground railroad is all about?
▶ 1:48:06Mr. Burgum: Qualifying that I'm not a civil war historian, but yeah, seems quite reasonable to me.
▶ 1:48:11Sen. Val Hollen: Seemed reasonable to me.
▶ 1:48:14Chair Murkowski: Your five minutes are up.
▶ 1:48:16Sen. Val Hollen: Which was erased from the website as part of the narrative, and it was replaced --
▶ 1:48:21Mr. Burgum: Which website are you speaking of?
▶ 1:48:24Sen. Van Hollen: The website for the national park service, they rewrote the website, explaining this history.
▶ 1:48:31Mr. Burgum: For which site are you talking about?
▶ 1:48:34Sen. Van Hollen: For the underground railroad site. If you go to the national park service web page that introduce the underround railroad, it used to have a picture of harriet tubman and the description I just read you, which is very accurate of what happened. That's just one example of some of the efforts to rewrite and white wash our history. I hope, Mr. secretary, you'll go back and look at that along with other examples.
▶ 1:49:00Chair Murkowski: Thank you. Senator fischer?
▶ 1:49:02Sen. Fischer: Thank you, madam chairman. Mr. secretary, welcome. Good to see you. In the department of interior's budget request, it includes $2.8 million in funds for new grants and partnerships with states, and it mentions support for rural fire assistance.
▶ 1:49:22Sen. Fischer: As you likely know, nebraska has recently experienced the worst wildfires in our state's history and the ninth worst in the history of this country. In nebraska, our state is primarily covered by rural volunteer fire departments. Mr.
▶ 1:49:43Sen. Fischer: Secretary, can you explain the opportunities that this additional funding could provide our volunteer fire departments and those firefighters and how we can continue to improve coordination with those local fire departments?
▶ 1:49:59Mr. Burgum: Yes, I can. Also, senator, I wanted to say again to both your governor, the emergency personnel, all those rural firefighters on the incredible epic scale of fire that's already happened this year.
▶ 1:50:13Mr. Burgum: I think it's a bellwether for what we might be facing in the west, because the dry weather is one of the reasons why we need to make sure that not only do we get the fire fix reauthorized that was led by some on this committee, but also that we make sure that we've got our fire fighting structure in place and well funded as we head into this year.
▶ 1:50:35Mr. Burgum: A key component of fire fighting on the federal level, because the fire doesn't know whether it's on federal land, state land, private land, and it doesn't know if it's on the bureau of land management, fish and wildlife versus forest service. And yet we've had completely separate entities, and I think of it like we've got the army, navy, marines and air force, but we had no joint chiefs of staff.
▶ 1:50:58Mr. Burgum: So part of the proposal on the wildland fire is to establish a unification of the decision structure at the very top about how to use aviation resources, is everybody paid the same and has the same benefits, even though they wear different uniforms and different fronts. And then also, are we at the right level of engagement with state and local, because when we fight fires, it's often in combination.
▶ 1:51:23Mr. Burgum: We got to make sure that even the communication tools that we're all using when you're fighting a fire, it's important that literally is on the same channel. So a lot of work to do, but we've hired a new national fire leader who began his career 14 years as a shot shot. He's deeply respected by the people on the front lines, the teams that fight some of our most difficult fires and our most challenging locations.
▶ 1:51:49Mr. Burgum: And then building out a structure where the firefighters all report up to firefighters, all the way up to the fire chief, who will report to me. So again, we put out an order that this year is going to be a year of suppression, meaning that when the fire begins, we'll put it out. Sometimes we've had land managers that feel like they've been underfunded in terms of fuel load management, so they'll let the fire burn in a national park or wild life refuge.
▶ 1:52:20Mr. Burgum: They'll think, oh, I can manage my fuel load, and then it turns out the fires like we saw last year at dragon bravo, where we lost the north lodge in the grand canyon national park, when in retrospect, an approach of oppression versus containment might have saved hundreds of millions of dollars of historic propertily.
▶ 1:52:45Sen. Fischer: I agree with you. You fully understand drought and high winds and the bad scenario that that can cause. It was hundreds of thousands of acres that burned, and I just really compliment the first responders, the firefighters that came in.
▶ 1:53:05Sen. Fischer: And of course, in rural nebraska, rural north dakota, neighbors, you've got your tank on the back of your pickup, and it's full of water, and you jump in and you head to the fire. But it's devastating. So to be able to have that coordination, thank you for that. And the communications is a huge part of that, the radio communication. I've been in range fires.
▶ 1:53:31Mr. Burgum: Yes.
▶ 1:53:33Sen. Fischer: Nebraska is proud to be home to the largest intact grassland stabilized system in the western hemisphere. Nebraska sand hills, where I'm from. As you know, grassland fire management and suppression can be very different than the timber management.
▶ 1:53:52Sen. Fischer: One area that I hear quite frequently from nebraska volunteer firefighters is the importance of ensuring that the federal firefighters are trained in that grassland fire suppression. Can you walk me through how that budget request will assist the federal firefighters to be able to be prepared for that?
▶ 1:54:18Sen. Fischer: As you were mentioning before, it's the communication, but do you do training as well?
▶ 1:54:25Mr. Burgum: It's certainly part of the plan. There is training, of course, people go through all the training to fight these fires. But when we build the national wildland service, having certifications across prairie versus forest versus different things, I think this is a reasonable thing that we would want to be pursuing.
▶ 1:54:44Mr. Burgum: Because I share your experience when my last couple couple of months of governor, the first time we had fatalities, we lost two ranchers in a 128,000-acre fire that we called the federal help hours after it started on a saturday morning at 6:00 a.m. And federal aviation showed up on tuesday. We called on saturday morning. Two ranchers had died. Live stock had been lost. And we had aircraft on the ground in boseman, montana, that never got in the air until tuesday.
▶ 1:55:13Sen. Fischer: In the past, we have federal land in nebraska as well. And in the past, we've had fires on federal land where the federal employees are not -- they don't want volunteers or a volunteer fire department to cross on the boundary on federal land.
▶ 1:55:38Sen. Fischer: We've had reemergence of fires after that because the full suppression of that fire didn't happen. What's the rule on that?
▶ 1:55:51Mr. Burgum: I can understand that that's happened, and it's happened not just between federal and state, it's happened between different agencies. But I think we have to have a command structure where we're all working for the same goal. Because if some federal folks in that case were like, oh, we should let this burn because burning prairie social security healthy --
▶ 1:56:10Sen. Fischer: For liability.
▶ 1:56:14Mr. Burgum: And then it comes across and burns their lands, I know we've worked with ranchers in nebraska in the last month to help provide alternative grazing for them on b.l.m. Land. Our teams have been working with the governor, but again, coordination across all these jurisdiction social security one of the goals of having a unified leadership team at the wildland, across all 50 states.
▶ 1:56:38Sen. Fibber: Thank you.
▶ 1:56:39Chair Murkowski: Thank you, senator fischer. I think on the issue of the fire unification effort, I think as you and I had discussed, we'll have opportunities as individual members to learn more about the direction here. I'm going to kind of use this next round for my lightning round and try to get through as many as I quickly can, because many of these issues, Mr. secretary, are ones that I have raised with you before.
▶ 1:57:09Chair Murkowski: Just sticking with the theme of permitting and making sure that b.l.m. Alaska is able to execute on the many initiatives they have in front of them. They have 70 million acres. It's just a lot of place.
▶ 1:57:31Chair Murkowski: And in addition to management, they've got to address the land entitlement issues, the land entitlement airplanes under statewood, our native veteran allotment. It is just complex. It's big. And it remains understaffed. We continue to hear about the delays in conveyances, in permitting, in the allotment process, and the project development. So just recognizing that you have what the alaska b.l.m.
▶ 1:58:02Chair Murkowski: Office has in front of them, you mentioned the record lease sale in the npra, which we are all excited about. But the concern is we don't have the people with the expertise in place to handle the permitting and all the actions that follow on that. We're talking about our alaska gas l.n.g. Project.
▶ 1:58:26Chair Murkowski: Everything that goes into this, and given the workforce reductions and what we've seen with the deferred resignation retirement, I just need to know that you are keeping an eagle eye on this to make sure that everything that is put in front of the teams, they're able to do without burning these good men and women out.
▶ 1:58:52Chair Murkowski: We're worried that retirement looks pretty good if you've been pushed really hard. I appreciate what you have shared with senator van hollen, that if they're key, you don't let them take that voluntary. But there are many, as you and I know, who have just said I worked a long time, this is hard work, it's getting harder.
▶ 1:59:21Chair Murkowski: So know that we are really concerned about this, and I just need your commitment that you're really focused on making sure that we've got good people and enough to keep them well, you ht commitment, senator. Also know since the beginning, including last year on these voluntary retirements. If someone was involved in permitting, they were not eligible to submit their name. If they were involved, sorry, you can't go. We made sure we're sending the strong signal, because we were left with massive permitting backlogs.
▶ 1:59:50Chair Murkowski: The permitting backlog on drilling permits was of almost in a single year was like pro bait sized. We had 5,600en processed drilling permits. We chewed through 91% of that backlog. Part of that is holding on to staff. The other part is systems, I.t. Systems. We have to support our team members with better I.t. Systems. These processes take too long. They're too manual. And we've hired some really good people. And the priority projects in I.t.
▶ 2:00:20Chair Murkowski: Have been how do we help the permitting teams address the backlogs they have?
▶ 2:00:26Chair Murkowski: Again, I appreciate that you're keeping singularly focused to this. What I worry is those who were told, no, you're too important, we need you, but then they haven't been given the additional support that they need. So they don't wait for the next opportunity for a deferred resignation. They just decide to give you their 30 or 60 days. It's hard. We recognize it. There's a lot of burnout there.
▶ 2:00:59Chair Murkowski: I mentioned in my opening statement, the community of the tribal resilience program. This has been so key in helping some of our communities that are really struggling right now, whether it's flood hazard mitigation for shoreline protection, I had just a tear jerker of a meeting yesterday visiting with the folks from there.
▶ 2:01:29Chair Murkowski: What we're hearing, again, on these t.c.r. Programs is some of these awards are still frozen. What we're trying to get is the current timeline and the process for reviewing, and then releasing these awards. We want to try to shorten this timeline, but we also need to understand when interior is planning to issue an fy25-26 solicitation for the funding.
▶ 2:01:59Chair Murkowski: We need to have some kind of an update on the tribal resilience program if we can.
▶ 2:02:03Mr. Burgum: Yes, and just a quick top line since and you I met, I choked some of this, and I think we've got another 17 million of alaska grants from this program that are getting ready to get out the door. We're chipping away at them. And again, trying to make sure we get the dollars to these communities that are in need.
▶ 2:02:22Chair Murkowski: Super. Appreciate that. Thank you. Not only I thank you, the resilients will as well. I mentioned all that the administration has put in place to help advance alaska's resource potential, particularly moving forward with some of these oil leases. Very excited about that. Leaning in on natural gas.
▶ 2:02:45Chair Murkowski: I've seen some references from the president, saying that alaska is ready to fill up everybody. Well, it takes a little bit of time. We're very excited that oil is going to be coming in and helping to refill that pipeline that is less than half full. But the reality is it takes a little bit of time.
▶ 2:03:08Chair Murkowski: And in the meantime, in the meantime, we have communities that are really panicked right now. Everyone is facing high prices at the pump. Very few feel it as acutely as an alaska off road village that is 100% reliant on diesel power generation. They get their tease he will twice a year in the spring and in the fall.
▶ 2:03:33Chair Murkowski: They're going to be locked into these high prices for delivery in june. We're hearing there may be shortages, and it f there are, there are no alternatives four your power. So if you're a little fishing community that needs to price ice to be able to receive fish from the fishermen, it doesn't happen. And so know that I have been asked if there are any areas or programs within b.m.I.
▶ 2:04:01Chair Murkowski: To be a bridge loan to some of these communities that, again, are quite concerned to the point of literally sending a text, making a phone call, tribal leader to senator saying help, we don't know what to do. I just put that out on your radar. Again, moving really quickly.
▶ 2:04:26Chair Murkowski: I'm pleased with what you've shared about the the hiring, the local hire for gateway communities. Anything more that we can be doing to improve the local hiring process, I think you've got support from folks on this committee.
▶ 2:04:51Chair Murkowski: The proposed cuts in the park system, I think you've heard from members and you'll of us are watching carefully. We want to make sure that the staffing is adequate. It's good to know that we're going to have more lawen forcement within the park service. But I just need to know that I've got people out in the park who are keeping the bears at bay.
▶ 2:05:22Chair Murkowski: I don't know if you're able to provide me an update on collecting a surcharge from international visitors is going and whether it's impacting entrance fee collections for the park. And what you might expect as far as that goes. I don't think anybody has raised that issue here.
▶ 2:05:42Mr. Burgum: I don't think they have during the committee. But again, as I stated earlier, this is being applied to some of our most visited flagship parks, the ones that have the highest percentage of international visitors. And the expectation is that we'd have a potentially significant increase in gate revenue from those visitors.
▶ 2:06:06Chair Murkowski: Have we seen that yet?
▶ 2:06:07Mr. Burgum: It's only been -- we're not in the busy son yet. It's not really the time. We have international visitors come more in the summer season, as you know. But we've had it implemented, and we got some early results from some locations.
▶ 2:06:23Chair Murkowski: We'll look for that. On another issue that everybody forgets about, under your portfolio is our insular affairs office, which plays a pretty key role. I've been getting an update on the situation with the super typhoon. My understanding is they're still without power. So I'm hoping that d.o.I.
▶ 2:06:51Chair Murkowski: Is supporting fema and others in the response and recovery, and any interagency coordination that's going on there. I don't know if you have any updates that you want to share with the committee on that.
▶ 2:07:05Mr. Burgum: I had a phone call yesterday with the assistants secretary of the senate nominated candidate leading that organization. He was in america samoa this week for flag day. It's their big annual celebration. Rather than returning home, he's flying to the commonwealth today. This storm was devastating. They're without power. They're without water. It was 175 mile an hour winds, but the storm was not like a tornado.
▶ 2:07:35Mr. Burgum: It was going like at 2 miles an hour. It sat over the island with sustained winds. So super devastating. Fema is there. The department of war is there. Insular affairs is today.
▶ 2:07:51Mr. Burgum: And I had a meeting on friday night with chris lando, the deputy secretary of state, who's got part of his portfolio and the person that works for him that manages and leads the relationship with our nations in the western pacific.
▶ 2:08:08Mr. Burgum: And I talked to chris again last night at state to make sure that we're doing everything we can, because obviously like any one of our states or territories that goes through this devastation, we have to make sure we're there for them.
▶ 2:08:24Chair Murkowski: This is a tough one. The last question that I have before I turn to my colleague for his final here is regarding the interagency agreement that's been signed between d.o.I. And the department of ed. I understand the planned transfer administration of most native education programs to d.o.I. Is still being formed.
▶ 2:08:49Chair Murkowski: I've had many questions as an appropriate for as well as in my position as chair of the indian affairs committee. And I am not seeing in your b.I.a. Or b.I.e. Budget that you request any additional funding to support the administration of these programs. In fact, your budget request of 5.4 million reduction in b.I.e.
▶ 2:09:17Chair Murkowski: Education management, and this is the office that helps support entry agency agreements. So I'm worried as to whether or not d.o.I. Has the resources necessary tilt to take on -- necessary at a time to take on the 26 additional programs without undue delays or distribution of funds. We've had a lot of incoming on this.
▶ 2:09:39Chair Murkowski: And we've been able to get very, very, very little information to be able to respond to those inquiries.
▶ 2:09:47Mr. Burgum: I'll take an action item and connect on that. My understanding on this is it's just four programs. Four programs, 16 people, and the funding was going to come with it. Very different perspectives on this.
▶ 2:10:01Chair Murkowski: Our information is different.
▶ 2:10:03Mr. Burgum: Let's see if we can sink up on that and do that. But I think the one thing that I took as a compliment was because of some of these programs are grant-based, the department of education actually looked at the existing systems within d.I.a. Before making grants, for following all the rules, for doing grants and said you guys are fully equipped to do this already. We were trying to reinvent the wheel over here.
▶ 2:10:32Mr. Burgum: We can plug these programs into you with less personnel, with the existing I.t. You have, and I think that was the assessment on the four programs that came over that they were better suited to be able to manage and deliver those grants than the department of ed was.
▶ 2:10:50Chair Murkowski: Let's follow up on that one. Finally, and I apologize for taking your time.
▶ 2:10:59Sen. Merkley: There's a tremendous number of issues in your portfolio, Mr. secretary. In february, the b.l.m. Announced it revised resource management plan for western oregon. That b.l.m. Land covers 2.4 million acres. It's northwest oregon, southwest oregon. It's coastal oregon. Different types of forests. And during the public scoping period, b.l.m.
▶ 2:11:25Sen. Merkley: Didn't hold any public meetings or in-person engagement. But now we'll come into the public comment period. And during the public comment period, can you commit that the b.l.m. Will hold at least one in person public meeting in each b.l.m. District?
▶ 2:11:45Mr. Burgum: Yes.
▶ 2:11:47Sen. Merkley: Thank you. I think that's incredibly important to get the best understanding of very diverse landscapes. Back in 2017, we passed a fire fix that was designed to try to end fire borrowing. And fire borrowing is when we run out of funds, and then the forest service has to shut down everything else it's doing in order to channel all their activity into fighting fires, which is an emergency. It has to be done. That has worked pretty well.
▶ 2:12:17Sen. Merkley: We haven't had firing borrowing this past decade, but that's expiring. The wild life reserve fund is expiring. I'm concerned, because last year our fire suppression cost $6.5 -- excuse me, $5.9 billion. And it wasn't a particularly horrific year. Now we have a period of drought. The cascade mountains have very low snow pack.
▶ 2:12:48Sen. Merkley: We've had some spring rain that produces a lot of grass. It dries up very quickly. This year, according to the fire experts, this could be a lot worse. We don't have the cushion left because we did, I mean, the cushion is now, if you take $5.9 billion last year, and right now we have 6.5, it doesn't take much of a more intense fire season to eat up those funds.
▶ 2:13:19Sen. Merkley: Can we work with you to amplify or put back in a new, maybe another 10-year span on this wildfire reserve fund and make sure we don't return to fire borrowing?
▶ 2:13:34Mr. Burgum: Yes, I want to compliment you and senator, the chairwoman, anybody that worked on the chair fix, when I was chairman of western govern no, sir,s which included oregon. The one thing we all do agree on was the fire fix. We'd be happy to work with you on that getting that reauthorized.
▶ 2:13:56Sen. Merkley: Thank you. Much appreciated. I'm concerned of running out of money this summer, in this fiscal year. I'd like to follow up with discussions about a potential supplemental to make sure that in this fire season we don't actually end up in that space, while we're working to restore the wildfire reserving fund.
▶ 2:14:15Mr. Burgum: Yes, and we're also working with the states, as I noted, we have in place our new chief of the wildland fire service. He's been making the rounds. If you vanity had an opportunity to meet with him, I woulden courage that. Our deputy secretary has also been up on the hill meeting with members of congress to answer questions about this.
▶ 2:14:37Mr. Burgum: Put we have put out a secretarial order about two weeks ago basically saying that we are going to take any fire that occurs that we're under full suppression mode. We're not starting the spring with bullets. Let's do a containment and do fuel load burning. We have to reserve our dollar resources and our human resources and our aviation resources for this big fire year. So we're just starting out the year and saying, if there's a fire, we're putting it out quickly. Working with states and local to make sure that happens.
▶ 2:15:06Mr. Burgum: We just can't get behind this year.
▶ 2:15:11Sen. Merkley: Thank you. I appreciate that approach. It's just become such a big issue in our western states, as I know you know well. And speaking of wildfire management, in consultation with your staff, it's our understanding that interior affirms that moving the forest service and fire management into the department of interior would take legislation.
▶ 2:15:40Sen. Merkley: Can you confirm that's your understanding as well?
▶ 2:15:43Mr. Burgum: I'll defer to the solicitor's office that, because I haven't heard a final opinion one way or another on that.
▶ 2:15:51Sen. Merkley: Ok. I'll follow up on that, and can you hold a dialogue with us after talking to the solicitor's office?
▶ 2:16:01Mr. Burgum: Absolutely.
▶ 2:16:01Sen. Merkley: Because wildland fire management is such a big deal to us, we're nervous about any reorganization in a might undermine our effectiveness, and of course, I'm sure you don't want us to be less effective either. We just want to make sure we're representing our states in the face of this risk and engaging in that conversation.
▶ 2:16:25Mr. Burgum: Happy to, and of course, our goal is to increase our effectiveness and also increase our ability to fight fires, but the ability to management our forest so we don't have so many fires in the first place.
▶ 2:16:39Sen. Merkley: One of the things I've been immersed in driving a 10-fold increase, more than a 10 fold increase in forest management, predescribed burns, and it's really helped us in a number of fires. But the amount of acres we can cover have been quite small in compare ton to the number of federal acres. So we're really trying to concentrate on areas near our towns.
▶ 2:17:05Sen. Merkley: I'll never forget the labor day 2021 fires in oregon, six turns burned to the ground. League those towns, it looked like a war had struck. Just complete reduced to ashes. With maybe a cast iron bathtub here or maybe a metal staircase left where there was once an apartment building, but nothing else but ash.
▶ 2:17:33Sen. Merkley: You see the refugees pouring into the fairgrounds, all of that. We just want to do everything possible, both in the front end for forest management, but also the fire fighting, to avoid those track deese.
▶ 2:17:48Mr. Burgum: Senator, thank you for your support on that. And you've had to see that tragedy with your own eyes. But it's why part of the strategy will concentrate on the wildland urban interface that you're describing. Those are the areas that we have to protect people and property. It's got to be a priority for us.
▶ 2:18:06Sen. Merkley: Thank you. 16 years since deep water horizon, and one of the things that came out of the bipartisan commission that looked into the causes found there was a close culture between the regulators and the industry, and they recommended a separation between the role of collecting revenues and the responsibility to enforce safety.
▶ 2:18:38Sen. Merkley: This recombines the bureau of safety and environment and enforcement. And concern that we're kind of going back to a model that undermined kind of the oversight necessary to ensure safety.
▶ 2:18:54Sen. Merkley: I don't know if you'd like to comment on that, but I guess I just wanted to express concern about, seemed like there was significant wisdom in trying to make sure that the safety oversight doesn't get compromised by too close of a relationship and I have a concern about that piece.
▶ 2:19:17Mr. Burgum: We share and respect your concern, and that's why it was broken into three organizations. They had the office of natural resource revenue or ocean resource revenue.
▶ 2:19:31Mr. Burgum: And in this proposal, bowman bessie, which currently share offices and they go out, they inspect on the same platforms, they work with the same issues, they're following the same regulations, but we've kept the revenue portion separately with the organization abbreviated honor, so honor is not part of the marine management proposal for unification.
▶ 2:19:57Mr. Burgum: But the group that we can best use our inspectors at the highest possible use to maintain the goals we have, monthly inspections on drilling rig social security, we had a lot of work to do, and those teams feel they can do it better and more efficiently. But agree with you, sir, the revenue has to be kept separating, and in this proposal it is.
▶ 2:20:18Sen. Merkley: Thank you. I'll take another look and follow up with you. I wanted to express my concerns about the diminishment of wild life trafficking. It's a way to fund terrorist organizations.
▶ 2:20:33Sen. Merkley: If it wasn't used to fund terrorist organizations, but just for profit for whatever reason, the potential to, in a single generation, wipe out or deeply reduce the viable population of key species around the planet, it's been something we all carry as a responsibility, not any one nation, but of humanity in general to try to control that.
▶ 2:21:07Sen. Merkley: And the operators are getting more sophisticated. Between helicopters and machine guns and bribery of local officials and the ability to communicate in ways with each other that give them more ability to move and monitor, it's just becoming a more difficult undertaking. I'd like to encourage two things.
▶ 2:21:36Sen. Merkley: One is the funds for this sort of international conservation funds are still sitting in the department, as I understand it, and have not gotten out of the door.
▶ 2:21:51Sen. Merkley: I want toen courage that as we pass an appropriation bill that carries this program into the future, which I hope we will, that the department will basically not sit on the funds, but will implement the program in partnership with conservation agencies that come from many different nations trying to tackle this challenge. >> if there was a question?
▶ 2:22:21Sen. Merkley: >> can you get the funds out the door you have currently under the fy 26 budget and can you commit to getting the funds out the door we provide funding for this in fy 27? >> yes. >> Mr. secretary, thank you.
▶ 2:22:40Sen. Merkley: You have given the committee a great deal of time this morning at a think you have heard there is follow-up, exchanges we will want to do with you and your team but know that as chair and I think I can speak for the ranking member here we look forward to working with you as we work to advance this very important appropriation subcommittee.
▶ 2:23:07Sen. Merkley: The more information you can provide us earlier is better because we are under a pretty tight schedule but I also realize you have a lot on your plate as your team do as well. I appreciate that you have assembled good men and women that want to do right by our nations lands, by our indigenous people, and that we are all
▶ 2:23:39Sen. Merkley: Working together. Thank you for this. We will hold the committee record open for an additional week for questions for the record to come from those who perhaps were not able to be here this morning. Thank you and appreciate your time. Good afternoon.