▶ 0:19:47>> the hearing will come to order. Welcome to our witnesses today, and thank you for your service to this country. We look forward to hearing your testimony. As everyone here understands, the united states faces a very different threat environment than ever before. Our adversaries are developing non-ballistic threats, including hypersonic and long-range cruise missiles designed to hold our homeland at risk.
▶ 0:20:16Our adversaries have also spent decades building multilayered defensive system, often referred to in the past as anti-access, aerial denial capabilities. While the department did begin programs to modernize our ability to defend against limited icbm attacks from a rogue actor, the united states has failed to make a similar investment to defend against a broader range of attacks.
▶ 0:20:44We now have a real opportunity to build a homeland defense architecture capable of meeting the threats that we currently face. General you have been -- while I appreciate our conversations on golden dome and classified settings, I look forward to you sharing war with the american public this afternoon on why we need to improve our missile
▶ 0:21:15Defense posture and how you plan to do so in a cost-effective manner. The tenant general collins, I look forward to hearing what progress has been made on enduring missile defense agency programs, including the next-generation interceptor and glide face interceptor as well as how mda is supporting golden dome.
▶ 0:21:39Assistant secretary berkowitz, your deep expertise in missile defense and deterrence policy is an invaluable resource for this department, and I appreciate your frankness and insight into the risks and the opportunities before us. General lozano, the army's contributions towards regional and deployed missile defense systems cannot be overstated.
▶ 0:22:06I look forward to hearing more about the systems and an update on the defense. With that, I would recognize senator kaine for any opening remarks.
▶ 0:22:19Sen. King: Thank you, madam chair. I'm going to submit my opening remarks for the record and some detail points and I think will come up and we can proceed directly to our witnesses. Thank you.
▶ 0:22:28Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator king. Secretary berkowitz, would you begin with your opening comments, please?
▶ 0:22:37Chair Fischer: Chairman fisher, ranking member king, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on the department of war's missile defense activities. It's an honor to appear with my colleagues, general gueti colleagues, general guetlien and the others. The pace and scale of the threat is unprecedented.
▶ 0:23:05Chair Fischer: Our rivals are expanding, diversifying and increasing the sophistication of their arsenals of missiles and aerial weapons. They're integrating offensive dry can missile defense systems into joint operations to deny access and oppose cost. By threatening america safety, territorial integrity and economic prosperity, rivals aim to undermine her political will and societal cohesion and morale and ability to project power. President trump is restoring american strength to meet these challenges and secure peace.
▶ 0:23:36Chair Fischer: He issued an executive order to field and operate the golden dome for america. A comprehensive, next generation defense against most catastrophic threats facing the united states. The golden dawn will protect our homeland and citizen critical infrastructure and second strike capability. The present golden dawn for america initiative is a cornerstone or homeland defense posture.
▶ 0:23:59Chair Fischer: It's a necessary and pragmatic response to the growing threat posed by ballistic, hypersonic, and advanced cruise missiles as well as other next generation aerial weapons. The golden dawn will complement our architecture. Today our capability to defend the nation is limited in its effectiveness is eroding against increasingly advanced rents. The golden dawn will rectify this spike, creating a layer defense in depth within the united states.
▶ 0:24:25Chair Fischer: It will defend against accidental, unauthorized road, decapitation, and coercive attacks. In contrast to the current limited defense system, consisting of a single layer of ground-based defense interceptors, multiple terrestrial and state space offensive layers will complicate adversary attack planning and provide more engagement opportunities to destroy incoming threats.
▶ 0:24:49Chair Fischer: Combined with the prospect of retaliation, the golden dome will strengthen deterrence by denying adversaries the ability to achieve their objectives through coercion or aggression. Moreover, it will save lives and limit damage, should deterrence break down. The cost of the golden dome, while significant, is a necessary investment to protect assets of truly incalculable value. The lives of our citizens and the territorial integrity of our nation.
▶ 0:25:18Chair Fischer: The cost of failing to defend our homeland would be infinitely greater. China is our pacing competitor. We will deter china from a position of strength with the denial defense along the first -- are mean -- regional defense policy, as well as terminal high altitude defense and patriot batteries provides a forward deployed layered integrated air and missile defense network.
▶ 0:25:43Chair Fischer: It's operation epic fury underscores regional missile defense as essential to protect inventor process, allies, and partners. Our global alliances will remain a strategic advantage for our allies and partners if investing properly and the pins. The department will continue to pursue opportunities for missile defense and defeat cooperation, to increase burden sharing capacity and interoperability. We are supercharging the U.S.
▶ 0:26:11Chair Fischer: Defense industrial base by cutting bureaucratic red tape, empowering program leaders to take calculated risks, and leveraging private-sector innovation. We must accelerate the delivery of critical missile defense and defeat cap abilities that stale that -- at scale. In closing, with the continued support of congress, the war department will invest in the missile defense and defeat programs necessary to achieve peace through strength. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:26:35Chair Fischer: Thank you, Mr. secretary. General guetllein, welcome.
▶ 0:26:47Gen. Guetlein: Thank you for the opportunity to report on the progress of golden dome for america prove we are here today because a global strategic landscape has changed. For the first time in her nation are our margin of safety has managed. We've been focused on the away game and are ever tears been working around the clock to challenge us at home. Today the homeland is exposed in relatively undefended.
▶ 0:27:11Gen. Guetlein: A new generation of advanced air and missile threats, unprecedented in their speed numbers, and lethality, now holds the american homeland at risk. Our adversaries are not just expressing intent, they are demonstrating the capability to threaten our families and our way of life. This threat is not theoretical. See it unfolding in front of our own eyes every day on our televisions. It is real, it is growing, we must meet it with american resolve.
▶ 0:27:40Gen. Guetlein: Alden dome for america is the administration's bold and decisive answer to this danger. It is the cornerstone of our strategy to rapidly improve the defensive invasion of the homeland and to ensure peace through strength. This is not another weapon system. It is a layer, integrated shield designed to defend the homeland against the full spectrum of advanced threats. This vision is ambitious, but it is achievable.
▶ 0:28:07Gen. Guetlein: The foundational technology exists today and we are moving with the utmost urgency to bring it to bear. Our strategy is built on speed, affordability, and partnerships. My priority is establishing unifying command-and-control network to link our existing battle proven systems in field credible defenses now.
▶ 0:28:26Gen. Guetlein: With the resources authorized by this community -- this committee, we are also investing in a generation technology to dramatically increase our defensive capacity and fundamentally drive down the cost for intercept for generations to come. Make no mistake, the greatest challenge here is not technical, it is organizational. Success requires forging unity of effort, cross the federal government and is the golden dawn director, have been granted unprecedented authorities to do just that.
▶ 0:28:55Gen. Guetlein: The leaders on this panel before you today, along with northcom, represent his new way of doing business. We are working as one team. Northcom is my number one customer. The missile defense agency is integrating the architecture and delivering cutting-edge capabilities. The armies army is building the operational framework and policy is deterring our adversaries.
▶ 0:29:17Gen. Guetlein: In addition, we are transforming our relationship with the industrial base using innovative partnerships and prize base competitions to unleash the full power of american innovation. Eldon dom is a generational investment in the security of our nation. It is a promise to the american people and a clear message to our adversaries that their reckless and aggressive actions will not go unanswered.
▶ 0:29:41Gen. Guetlein: With your continued support, and resourcing, we will deliver a defense that protects every american. We owe nothing less to our children and our children's children. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:29:53Chair Fischer: Thank you. General collins, welcome. You are recognized for your comments.
▶ 0:29:59Lt. Gen. Collins: Good afternoon, chair fischer, ranking king and distinct as members of the subcommittee proved thank you for your continued, unwavering support of the missile defense initiative. Through its current establishment as the missile defense agency of 2002, the men and women of this missile defense enterprise have made the impossible possible. Hitting a bullet with a bullet.
▶ 0:30:26Lt. Gen. Collins: We have integrated the spirit capabilities from services, agencies and nations into an effective weapon system, proven in combat in recent years, months, and days. We have developed, globally delivered and evolved the missile defense system since it went operational in 2004 address evolving threats, leverage new technology and aligned with the nation's national policy.
▶ 0:30:50Lt. Gen. Collins: Mda has leveraged its extensive experience in integrating, testing and delivering technologically the vents missile defense system to deliver on his promises and commitments to our nation. And provide the war fighter the battle proven, lethal and effective systems that have saved thousands of lives. His team has adapted to the changing character of war with the mission is not done. Recent operations have only highlighted the increasing pace of change and mda is increasing our acquisition tempo to maintain relevancy.
▶ 0:31:20Lt. Gen. Collins: Today mda is pressing ahead to continue developing and delivering the disruptive, lethal, resilient, agile, and affordable capabilities required today and tomorrow for the defense of the U.S. homeland, our deployed forces, and our international partners.
▶ 0:31:37Lt. Gen. Collins: We continue our transformation into the fast and agile enterprise the nation needs, and we are renewing our focus on delivering cutting edge capabilities across the air, land, sea, space domains for the ongoing transition and transfer proven missile defense systems, mda will invest more purposely in the development comic spirit mentation, integration, testing and delivery a breakthrough technologies and foundational missile defense capabilities.
▶ 0:32:03Lt. Gen. Collins: Mda will continue to develop and test system elements, components, and technologies for this new generation of capabilities we are calling this a defense system next, and it will continue to operate as the system of systems integrator for the homeland defense architecture eval of 10 delivered by the office of the golden dome for america. Mda is aligned with golden dome, I, with gen. Guetlein: I, with gen. Guetlein to defend our homeland and our nation's interest.
▶ 0:32:33Lt. Gen. Collins: In closing, like to honor those that are paid the ultimate price and service to our country and thank those were fighters, civilians, contractors, professionals and their families , those operating the missile defense system around the world come around the clock, in harm's way, today. The honors with their selflessness and sacrifice. I greatly appreciate your steadfast support for mda and your commitment to providing the resources necessary to execute the missile defense mission.
▶ 0:32:59Lt. Gen. Collins: Recent conflict set proven and cemented the vital role missile defense plays in the strategic environment and on the battlefield. Thank you. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:33:08Chair Fischer: Thank you you, general collins. General lozano, you are recognized for your comments.
▶ 0:33:15Lt. Gen. Lozano: Members of the subcommittee, thank for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the criticality of defending the island of guam. On behalf of army senior leadership, we thank you for your continued support of our soldiers, sailors, airmen, marines, guardians, civilians and their families. Guam is an undisputed will part of the homeland and I cannot overstate its strategic criticality as the home of american citizens. Defending guam is unquestionable.
▶ 0:33:48Lt. Gen. Lozano: It is the geostrategic location that makes it central to the deterrence efforts against our adversaries in the indo pacific. Serving as a critical hub for power projection, logistics, and regional operations. Our ongoing efforts center on defending against increasingly sophisticated and evolving threats.
▶ 0:34:10Lt. Gen. Lozano: As the joint program acquisition executive, our organization is charged with synchronizing the development, testing, integration, fielding, and sustainment of the guam defense system components. These components span across 25 prototype efforts and programs of record in the army, air force, navy, and the missile defense agency. The joint program acquisition executive also serves as the material developer for the guam defense system battle manager.
▶ 0:34:40Lt. Gen. Lozano: The suite of products allows current service and agency developed weapon systems and command-and-control to behave as a unified system. Guam currently host multiple systems that not only deliver critical defensive capabilities, but also provide soldiers with valuable training and hands-on experience. In the past year, the army has fielded a lower tiered air and missile defense system and that battery is on the island.
▶ 0:35:08Lt. Gen. Lozano: Additionally, terminal high altitude area defense battery known as task force talon is fully integrated and actively operated by soldiers stationed there. A radar panel provided by the missile defense agency also serves as a key element of the guam defense system architecture.
▶ 0:35:27Lt. Gen. Lozano: Contributing to a comprehensive, 360 degree coverage of the island, with initial operating capability taking place in fiscal year 27, the gds architecture will continue to evolve to outpace the threat, including incorporating new technologies in the future such as directed energy. Thank you once again for the opportunity to be here. I look forward to questions about the guam defense system.
▶ 0:35:52Chair Fischer: Thank you, general. Assistant secretary berkowitz, I like to begin with you and gen. Guetlein. In this setting, what threats is gda being designed to defend against, and perhaps more importantly, how well is the homeland defended against those threats today?
▶ 0:36:16Asst. Sec. Berkowitz: Thank you for the opportunity to underscore the critical rationale for the program. As I indicated in my opening statements, we are in a very complex and dangerous security environment. Where our rivals have to medically expanded their missile and aerial arsenals.
▶ 0:36:41Asst. Sec. Berkowitz: Those include ballistic missiles, hypersonic missiles, advanced cruise missiles and other advanced aerial weapons systems. The threat they pose, whether nuclear armed or even conventional, are truly grave threats to our homeland, to the american population, to our critical infrastructures, and to our second strike capability. That is the reason why the president took the initiative to order the department to pursue the golden dome initiative.
▶ 0:37:12Asst. Sec. Berkowitz: If you could remind me about the second part of your question, please.
▶ 0:37:15Chair Fischer: Can we defend against those threats today? Guetlein -- asst. Sec.
▶ 0:37:21Berkowitz: Today we have a very limited ground-based single layer homeland defense system that was specifically designed against a small scale road of attack from north korea. And we have very limited capability against any other attack with ballistic missiles, and we have no defense against hypersonic weapons or cruise missiles today.
▶ 0:37:49Berkowitz: I'd say advanced cruise missiles.
▶ 0:37:52Chair Fischer: Would you like to add anything to that?
▶ 0:37:56Gen. Guetlein: Yes, chairwoman. Golden dome is designed to go against unmanned aerial systems against our homeland, cruise missiles, hypersonic and maneuvering hypersonic missiles as well as ballistics. Today as secretary berkowitz discussed, we are really focused on the rogue nation intercontinental ballistic missile threat to protect the homeland and we relied on our options to take the fight to the enemy.
▶ 0:38:25Gen. Guetlein: That distance has been quickly eroded by their technology. Golden dawn is protecting promote conventional threats that we see unfolding on television every day, as well as nuclear capable threats it could be brought against the homeland.
▶ 0:38:36Chair Fischer: General, in the president's fiscal year 27 budget request for golden dawn, it included over $17 billion in the mandatory portion of the request. In this setting, can you tell us why it is critical for these funds to be provided to golden dawn this cycle, and what happens if we wait to find these programs until fiscal year 28 or even later?
▶ 0:39:07Gen. Guetlein: Thank you for that question. Today as we study, the home and its relative undefended. Our number one objective is to change the homeland defense equation as fast as we possibly can, with the objective of delivering an operational capability to protect against those generation air threats by the summer of 2028.
▶ 0:39:26Chair Fischer: Are you ready in your plan to be able to put that $17 million to good use and then to be able -- to be ready in fy 28 for more funding to continue the buildout?
▶ 0:39:42Gen. Guetlein: Absolutely, chairwoman. We have gotten the entire architecture improve. We know with the testing strategy will be to get us to the summer of 28 and we are postured to rapidly those funds on contract efficiently -- efficiently and portably to deliver in that summer.
▶ 0:40:01Chair Fischer: Once a total projected cost of golden dawn, and how will you ensure that the taxpayers money is going to be spent responsibly? What's going to happen if portions of the planned architecture turn out to be not feasible from a cost perspective?
▶ 0:40:21Gen. Guetlein: That's a great question. Currently the estimated cost of golden dawn with objective architecture out into the 20 30's is 185 billion. That's it $175 billion the president announced plus an additional 10 billion to expand space capabilities that were not originally part of our architecture.
▶ 0:40:43Gen. Guetlein: We have built the foundation of golden dawn upon a scalable, modular architecture, using affordable elements taking advantage of competition and innovation from the industry to deliver those elements and we have scaled it so that it is multilayered and integrated. If any component of the architecture cannot deliver on time, we have pathways to pivot away from that and it we will embrace different technology.
▶ 0:41:09Chair Fischer: Senator king.
▶ 0:41:13Sen. King: I have a couple more general question. Number one, I'm very concerned about the way this is being funded. In this year's budget, almost when he far percent of the budget is in this reconciliation slush fund that doesn't go through the normal appropriations process. It makes defense a partisan process, which I think is unfortunate. The senator and I we are in the days of oco.
▶ 0:41:42Sen. King: This is the son of boko, and it is safe find that doesn't have the oversight of the united congress. Yes, it's authorized by congress, but in a purely partisan way. Since I've been sitting on this committee, all of our work has been bipartisan, until now. And I don't understand how this all happened here, you talking about mandatory spending. Mandatory spending is social security and medicare. This isn't mandatory spending.
▶ 0:42:08Sen. King: And this is the american taxpayers dollars and it's our responsibility to shepherd those dollars and two approved and work through and have oversight over programs created. I thought it was interesting, you said it was the president's initiative and continued support of congress. So the president gets to say were going to do a $300 billion project and congress can sit by and say ok, we will write the check for that.
▶ 0:42:35Sen. King: I don't understand, I'm very disturbed by the precedent that this has created, which is basically for this year, I understand, about 25% of the defense budget is out of the consideration of the appropriations committee and the armed services committee, and the chairman that committee is reduced to saying, will you hopefully follow the precedence of congress?
▶ 0:42:56Sen. King: We've heard it said it mutual multiple committee meetings rather than the process that is supposed to take place, which is the president reposes in congress considers the risk and the cost, and enables and authorizes the program. I don't know if any of you want to respond to this, but I really am very concerned about the process that we are talking about here.
▶ 0:43:17Sen. King: None of you personally have any responsibility, but we are talking about taking 25% of the defense budget away from the appropriations committee and effectively away from the authorizing the armed services committee and handing it to omb and the white house. That's not the way our system is supposed to work. Can you give me some recent life should be done this way and not through the ordinary appropriations process that has stood this country in good stead for a couple hundred years?
▶ 0:43:45Sen. King: >> yes, senator, I'd like to answer the question. My understanding is that the rationale for making the request is part of the reconciliation, part of the budget, is to accelerate the president's initiative and to provide flexibility.
▶ 0:44:03Sen. King: -- another wife saying I do want to mess with that messy, congressional thing where they consider and have hearings, right? You just want to do it as the president wants. Is that what you are saying? >> no sir, what I'm saying is that this is a one-time request for a plus up to accelerate --
▶ 0:44:22Sen. King: This is the second your reconciliation, it isn't a one-time request. This is your number two. >> it provides flexibility given the rapidly changing dynamic of advanced technology, sir.
▶ 0:44:36Sen. King: I really don't like this process. I think it is a huge mistake and I think it's one more abdication of congress's responsibility and authority to take care of the taxpayers money. General lozano, what is the cost of defending rom -- guam through what you have, what is the total cost of defense that you outlined in your testimony?
▶ 0:45:02Lt. Gen. Lozano: Thank you, sir, for your question. Right now we are tracking a total cost of about $3.5 billion, sir.
▶ 0:45:14Sen. King: $3.5 billion. So the total cost of golden dawn protracted -- projected is 100 -- 175 billion dollars. I'm not very good at doing math in my head, that comes out to -- what is it? I will do it right in front of you. Divided by 3.5, it would be about 50,000 times that. I mean, we are talking about very significant cost.
▶ 0:45:44Sen. King: Can you do golden dawn and protect like grommets being -- juan is being protected with that budget?
▶ 0:45:51Gen. Guetlein: We can absolutely protect the homeland for 170 $5 billion. The difference is while is a point defense, it needs to be self-contained and self defended whereas protection of the homeland is an area defense.
▶ 0:46:06Sen. King: You say area defense, what does that mean?
▶ 0:46:08Gen. Guetlein: That means a whole country, montana isn't necessarily going to be protected.
▶ 0:46:15Sen. King: You'd have to put down an enormous amount of protection and defensive measures to protect one jewel. If you step back and you're trying to protect the entire museum, you can now go back to original offense, protect the perimeter without having to dedicate all those point defenses. That's really the difference in the way we are protecting llama and the way we protect the homeland.
▶ 0:46:38Gen. Guetlein: You can protect the entire homeland, the villages of louisiana or mexico arm in 10 or main with the system you're proposing. It's not designed to protect particular areas like that national capital or major -- aries.
▶ 0:46:55Gen. Guetlein: It's designed to protect the entire homeland, even ballistics from the air are from the sea. The entire homeland to include alaska and hawaii and after defense of guam is delivered, it will be continue with the fence of the homeland.
▶ 0:47:14Sen. King: My hot -- my time is up.
▶ 0:47:16Chair Fischer: Since we have no other members here, think we will continue. Can you walk us through the role that missile defense agency has in supporting golden dome? I don't know how you want to word this, who wants to start.
▶ 0:47:39Gen. Guetlein: What we want to do is take advantage of the vast resources and expertise of this agency that just been around for several decades. Under the authority's memo that the secretary of war gave me, they align missile defense agency under the operational control of golden dome to do the system to systems integration, to do the testing and transition from development into operations, to take advantage of the vast expertise and resources of the missile defense agency.
▶ 0:48:11Gen. Guetlein: So under golden dome, general collins is dual hatted as my deputy for system to system engineering as well as the director for the missile defense agency reporting to the director for research and engineering within the department.
▶ 0:48:23Chair Fischer: Thank you, general collins, in your answer if you could talk about that integration we did yesterday at our meeting and classified and if you could bring that up a little bit.
▶ 0:48:39Lt. Gen. Collins: Certainly to build on general good lines comments, this'll defense agency, we have a long history of integrating disparate capabilities into effective, combat proven missile defense systems, and the big ask that comes with golden dome as part of that as well, one additional thing, we're also an acquirer of a number of those capabilities as well so we are acquiring capabilities to deliver and then
▶ 0:49:09Lt. Gen. Collins: The integration leap across all services and agencies as we go forward. That integration role covers down on a number of different parts of what integration means. There's program integration, make sure all the schedules are integrated together.
▶ 0:49:30Lt. Gen. Collins: Earlier today we talked about an integrated enter master schedule in and integrating offices that we stood up, really the source of bringing in the capabilities and the schedules for all the different department come into writing -- into those together so gen.
▶ 0:49:44Lt. Gen. Collins: Guetlein -- systems and aggression, with the technical integration piece, my chief engineer has worked soldier -- shoulder to shoulder and they make sure that technically, the technical integration, the requirements, interfaces and management of those interfaces are tied together seamlessly so that when the kit arrives it all works together as a single weapon system.
▶ 0:50:13Lt. Gen. Collins: Then we are building below that as well. How do we integrate with operations, with the war fighter inner agency and the like? All of those are part of the integrating office and truly part of the dna of missile defense agency in support of golden for america.
▶ 0:50:31Chair Fischer: We are looking at a generational investment here in homeland defense and we want to make sure it is going to be what we need in order to meet the threats that we have. Are you working with industry so we have the best concepts and technology available for this?
▶ 0:50:55Chair Fischer: And when you work with industry partners, the second and third tier suppliers, are you making sure that those supply lines can be -- cannot be exported in the future, or even now? >> we are absolutely working in partnership with industry. I personally that with over 400 individual companies over the past 6-8 months, to share with mi problems but also understand how they can solve our problems.
▶ 0:51:28Chair Fischer: We have stood up the command and control consortium which deals with initial contractors as well as new entrance. There were 12 of them working to deliver the command-and-control kit and last week we stood up what we call the ecosystem hub. It is a one-stop shop for industry to come and do business with golden dome. It is a single point of entry.
▶ 0:51:55Chair Fischer: Includes two wake medications have transparent dialogue back-and-forth. It has strategic matchmaking. I can connect them to anybody in the federal government that may be in need of their services or capabilities. It has a security and resilience element to it. We have brought on companies to do supply chain resilience down to the multiple levels deep into the supply chain, to look for alternatives to expand the supply chain and diversify it.
▶ 0:52:22Chair Fischer: We have also partnered them with a red team that goes in and helps them figure out how the thread is going to manifest itself, how to protect and offend themselves against that threat and very transparent and partnering manner. We are embracing industry like we never have in the past.
▶ 0:52:35Chair Fischer: Thank you, general. Senator king.
▶ 0:52:41Sen. King: What is the estimate on the number of missiles, uavs and other attack elements that china has? Or do we know? >> center, those numbers are classified. They range depending on the type of threat from several hundred to several tens of thousands.
▶ 0:53:03Sen. King: One my questions about golden dome is the cornerstone of our defense strategy for 80 years has been deterrence. Mutually assured destruction. You have been through a period in the second half of the 20th century were we faced an aggressive adversary with a lot of capabilities, strategic missiles, bombers, the whole range.
▶ 0:53:23Sen. King: Without any golden dome, and what protected us wasn't sensors and missiles, but the idea of deterrence, that if we are struck, we will strike back in such a way as to impose unacceptable cost on the adversary.
▶ 0:53:43Sen. King: What has changed that makes this new initiative necessary from the experience that we had with the soviet union in the second half of the 20th century? They had bombers, they had missiles come they had strategic capability, they had icbms. That's what we are talking about that china has.
▶ 0:54:09Sen. King: Why is it that we suddenly need a defense shield when we went without one for 70 years and it worked? I'm being a little argumentative skeptical and want to understand why this is necessary now and it wasn't necessary when we faced a similar threat, perhaps more aggressive in the soviet union.
▶ 0:54:37Sen. King: >> thank you for the question, I think it is very important question that congress and the american public must understand to be able to support the programs rationale. But I would say is that the strategic environment has changed dramatically since the end of the cold war and that we are no longer facing just a single monolithic threat.
▶ 0:55:00Sen. King: We are now facing multiple nuclear armed rivals who have increasingly sophisticated missile and aerial capabilities, first off.
▶ 0:55:12Sen. King: Deterrence, while all of this is going on we are upgrading our own triad very substantially in terms of icbms, in terms of new bombers and nuclear submarines. Why won't deterrence work with china if it worked for 50 years or 80 years with the russians? >> I believe that strategic stability cannot be based on U.S. societal vulnerability to assured retaliation.
▶ 0:55:40Sen. King: Our competitors clearly do not accept that there societal vulnerability contribute to stability, both russia and china, and for that matter other actors, have long pursued their own integrated air and missile defense systems. Their objections to U.S. missile defenses are not really about preserving strategic stability.
▶ 0:56:02Sen. King: There and that weakening or constraining our own defense capabilities that would complicate their ability to use coercive threats or to attack the united states. In short, what they have been doing is insisting that U.S. vulnerability is stabilizing, while simultaneously rejecting such vulnerability for themselves.
▶ 0:56:23Sen. King: As I said earlier, the golden dome is intended to be a complement to our nuclear deterrent because in conjunction with our nuclear triad, at home missile defense capability to provide us both a sword and a shield that will have a synergistic benefit to strengthen deterrence and should deterrence fail, it will provide a means to protect the territorial integrity of the nation and the lives of our citizens.
▶ 0:56:51Sen. King: Anka, general, knowing we are in an open setting, can you explain how golden dome would work? You answered my question about guam, you said it isn't like guam, nor protecting particular places. By the way, I did my math. If we protected ticket or places in the U.S., we could do 50 if we had the same cost that we have in guam. But you are saying the system doesn't work that way.
▶ 0:57:14Sen. King: Can you give us the concept of how it would work, rather than having batteries around kansas city, for example?
▶ 0:57:26Lt. Gen. Lozano: Absolutely, ranking member crapo if you look at the way to fight the way game, everyone of our weapon systems have to be able to operate independently, disconnecting from the larger in price. That is not the way we need to defend the united states.
▶ 0:57:44Lt. Gen. Lozano: Rather than having all those point defense is being able to operate dependency -- dependently, we can bring it back to the united states, integrated network at a new and innovative waves, bring to bear automated capabilities and take advantage of the next generation level of processing artificial intelligence to make sense of a greater array of data, so it
▶ 0:58:07Allows Us -- Sen. King: Missiles coming from china, what is the defense? You used a lot of words there, but I still don't -- are we still talking about fads and patriots, or are we talking about something entirely different?
▶ 0:58:27Gen. Guetlein: We are talking about something different. Where integrating and networking an array of vectors and an array of sensors using nexgen technology to get a greater magazine depth at a lower cost per intercept.
▶ 0:58:45Sen. King: So we still are talking some kind of kinetic response.
▶ 0:58:58Gen. Guetlein: We're are talking about kinetics, nine kinetics, a whole host of capabilities and a layered effect to include energy, bringing to bear new and innovative ways. We cannot go into the specifics of the vectors nor the magazine depth, but it is a different set of capabilities and what we currently have.
▶ 0:59:18Sen. King: You said directed geez because you knew that was something I was going to respond to. Think you very much, and again, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but my job is to represent the american people but think deserve to understand how this thing would work, why we are doing it, whether it will in fact increase our security, and as I said at the beginning, how it is being funded. Thank you very much.
▶ 0:59:43Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator king. If senator rosen is ready, she just joined us. Take your time. You made good time. Good to see you.
▶ 1:00:04Sen. Rosen: It afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your service to our country. We really appreciate that. I'm going to talk a little bit about golden daum and the vulnerabilities that are there. I'm going to move this little closer. There we go. The proposed golden dome architecture represents a significant expansion of the U.S. missile defense network.
▶ 1:00:33Sen. Rosen: Integrating a wide variety of systems, numerous touch points that of course have to be protected. An example would be the command control battle management and communication system that serves as a global network linking disparate sensors and shooters. So, gen. Guetlein, can you talk about how the department is addressing the wide variety systems and numerous touch points that need to be protected in such a complex, interconnected system?
▶ 1:01:04Gen. Guetlein: Thank you, senator. The threat you're talking about a very detrimental to her capabilities. First it up golden dome, the first thing we did was architect and cyber resiliency from the start. Where as traditionally our legacy system and to be architected after the fact, we actually brought to bear cyber resiliency from the very beginning.
▶ 1:01:27Gen. Guetlein: We stood up because the gda ecosystem hub, it's actually a collaborative effort with industry to help them protect their ip and protect their systems. So we have teams acting -- I can go into industry, show them how the threat will manifest and how to protect and defend themselves against that threat, and a collaborative and partnering way going forward. From a command perspective, brought to bear some of the leaders of interstate -- industry that know how to do this.
▶ 1:01:58Gen. Guetlein: From the foundation of our command-and-control and control capability, that brings to bear all the legacy c2 systems, gda becomes basically the glue layer, if you will, of federating all of these in a machine to machine in her face with cyber resiliency as a foundation.
▶ 1:02:14Chair Fischer: I think that's really critical because if you don't work with the public sector, that interconnectivity, to your point, I want to talk about building on that. I appreciate what you are doing there, bringing in industry partners, building that cyber resiliency from the bottom, from the top, from every side.
▶ 1:02:36Chair Fischer: I want to ask you to consider that adversaries like china are employing already jamming capabilities, or other tactical means to confuse our missile defense systems. What measures are you taking into ensure the integrity of the data layer and prevent that cyber interference from degrading our offensive despond -- response during a conflict?
▶ 1:02:59Gen. Guetlein: We have built in a layered set of capabilities and we do not have a single point of failure, and where we can, we have pulled her capabilities off the grid to be able to operate independently at the tactical edge of necessary and if they are disconnected from the broader enterprise.
▶ 1:03:18Chair Fischer: Thank you. I want to move on to talk a little bit about some lessons learned in missile defense because our current real-world air and missile defense in the middle east and ukraine, we know they provided insights into how advanced defense systems perform under extreme stress.
▶ 1:03:38Chair Fischer: So these engagements have highlighted not only the effectiveness of layer defense architectures but also the challenges, and I so appreciate your focus on resiliency, redundancy and all of that. It's just critical. But the challenges are posed by high volume, mixed threat types that include cruise missiles, ballistic missiles, unmanned aerial systems in addition to adversary tactics designed to exploit our systems limitations.
▶ 1:04:05Chair Fischer: So general collins, can you describe how the department is incorporating the lessons learned from the recent air and missile defense operations into its testing and evaluation process, and what steps are you taking going forward to validate or update our systems before they are deployed again?
▶ 1:04:27Lt. Gen. Collins: Thank you, senator rosen. We've had important lessons learned over the last number of years. Ukraine mention and defense of israel the last couple of minutes -- couple of months.
▶ 1:04:38Sec. Rosen: I was going to say the middle east too.
▶ 1:04:43Lt. Gen. Collins: I think you tapped into the increasing complexity and the scale and layering we have not seen or planned for in the past. It's increasing -- it's an ever increasing rate in the ability to do integrated battle management and integrated command-and-control is paramount to those weapon systems going forward. During the operation, we meet with the war fighter every single day.
▶ 1:05:11Lt. Gen. Collins: We pull data from the systems every single day and analyze every data source from every weapons system we have been feeding that data back to the operators. They have been making tactics changes to procedure changes within a day of seeing the adversary that could change as we go forward.
▶ 1:05:30Lt. Gen. Collins: In addition, we are distilling us down into upgrades and advancements of the weapons systems that we are responsible for as well as working with the army on their systems and we put hundreds of updates out to the field in the last two years in response to the capabilities that we've seen. There are still capabilities that we need to continue to drive forward in.
▶ 1:05:57Lt. Gen. Collins: The complexity of -- is a top problem to scale the system into, as we move forward, one of our key technology thrusts in the future or missile defense agency and in support of golden dome is to make sure we can get the lethality, affordability and scalability into the future weapon systems that we bring to bear so that we can really get the magazine depth at as affordable cost as possible to take out these threats.
▶ 1:06:26Lt. Gen. Collins: With the agility of open architectures and government ownership of the baselines in the technology baselines, that will help us be agile as we move forward. Those are fun to middle things we are bringing to bear to make sure we are as agile as possible against this nefarious threat.
▶ 1:06:42Sec. Rosen: Thank you. I have so many more question. I would submit them for the record. Thank you. I wanted to finish up on this because there has been a high demand and expenditure of our missile defense systems. What is the state of our inventory, and our industry's capacity to replenish those missile reserves? How do you think we are faring on that?
▶ 1:07:13Sec. Rosen: So many lessons learned about what is going on between crane and the middle east about what else we will need to do. Can you talk to me about that? >> the inventories are sensitive and we can take the actual numbers off-line, but scale is extremely important as we move forward.
▶ 1:07:31Sec. Rosen: For a couple of years now I have been in the hearings talking about we need to increase focus on capacity we have been building a capacity debt where we have not maximized our production lines to meet the needs that the war fighters identified.
▶ 1:07:47Sec. Rosen: That change last year, deputy secretary fienberg has really focused the munitions acceleration council on engaging industry, bringing the right sustained focus, the right sustained resources to move the needle and speed up capacity to what we need. That one fits into the budget and that is a very different way to look at this problem.
▶ 1:08:12Sec. Rosen: It will take time to scale the supply chain, to grow it and receive --
▶ 1:08:20Chair Fischer: We have to identify it before we can begin to scale it, what the challenges are.
▶ 1:08:26Lt. Gen. Collins: Yes ma'am, and in this president's budget that has been released, there's a significant increase to all the critical munitions required to intercept missile defense systems as we move forward. I would just say we got here by not having sustained focus and resources on editions, we really need to sustain resources and focus on the nations in years to come to replenish the stocks and get us to magazine depth that we need.
▶ 1:08:53Sec. Rosen: Can I ask one more about staffing? I have a few more, but I will finish up with this one. When to stay with you again, general collins. Our missile defense agency staffing, so if you are the director, you oversee global organization, nine thousand military, civilian and contract workers. That's a lot of people.
▶ 1:09:16Sec. Rosen: So given the ambitious eldon dome initiative, how is the administration push to reduce the federal workforce eliminate contracts affecting your agency's ability to really manage this massive expansion? How do you get to be nimble, bringing the people that you need to as you are learning more and more every day, the data set is coming down every day from real-time events in the alr and theater is really changing what we know.
▶ 1:09:46Sec. Rosen: So how are you managing this massive expansion for golden dome, dwindling missile stockpiles, to work with our allies. Tell us what we need to do, what we should be thinking about as we manage this going forward. We are learning every single day. >> yes, ma'am.
▶ 1:10:11Sec. Rosen: The strength of missile defense agency is the long depth of knowledge and experience that we have. With an unmatched commitment to the mission from the entire workforce, whether it be civilians, the military or the contractor. We continue to have that but we have reduced the size of the missile defense agency last year.
▶ 1:10:33Sec. Rosen: We worsened -- specific and focusing on areas that made us faster and made us more agile as we move forward, and we are at a manning level today that continues to support us moving faster.
▶ 1:10:45Sec. Rosen: Do you have the authority to her people in new areas? As you are learning from what is happening real-time, you may see you need to plus up on something in a place you didn't expect, right?
▶ 1:11:01Lt. Gen. Collins: Yes ma'am. I do have the flexibility to pivot in a car the confidences we need and the authorities to go higher the right people, whether that is engaging them through contract hirings or through the civilian workforce as well.
▶ 1:11:18Lt. Gen. Collins: I do have hiring authorities to be able to identify those, and we have started some tiger teams within the agency to make sure we do a full competency survey of the agency to identify if there's any areas we may be little thin on, ceci as we move into new areas like artificial intelligence, there probably some growth areas we still need to address the last thing we are probably fortunate is because we are located in huntsville,
▶ 1:11:49Lt. Gen. Collins: Alabama, colorado springs, and the virginia area.
▶ 1:11:55Sec. Rosen: Thank you again for your service and commitment. We are learning a lot how we will have to be nimble and agile to meet the emerging threats, so thank you so much.
▶ 1:12:07Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator rosen privette we are happy that you were able to join us today on a monday. I know it is hard for you. General collins, last question I have for you. Can you give us an update on the next generation interceptor program?
▶ 1:12:30Lt. Gen. Collins: Is the future of homeland defense against peer and rogue intercontinental ballistic missiles. A program is still executing, that is still our largest and highest promoted program when it comes to that defense of homeland against the peer threat .
▶ 1:12:51Lt. Gen. Collins: That program continues, couple of years ago we did an earlier downselect than planned due to priorities. Since then, we did replan about 18 months ago, based on issues and concerns with the solid rocket motor. We continue to draw that program forward.
▶ 1:13:14Lt. Gen. Collins: At the end of the year we're on track for all the -- to close the design phase of the nexgen interceptor program and completely move into the manufacturing and test phase of that as we drive towards first flight test in 2029. We have no open major themes against the design of the system which is a plus at this point in the system and time of the program.
▶ 1:13:44Lt. Gen. Collins: We are identifying and finding some issues with some of these new systems, the commercial measurement unit as well as some in the sensors and we are working to buy demos resend move forward as quickly as possible to make sure we pull the day as far to the left as possible. The generals and I are regularly walking about nexgen interceptor an important part it plays in the layered defense of our homeland as we move forward.
▶ 1:14:13Chair Fischer: Thank you. General lausanne oh, good afternoon. Chairman wicker and I had the opportunity to visit the pacific on last august and spend some time in guam and trying to assess the situation there. Can you give us an update on the implementation of the defense of guam? >> yes, ma'am.
▶ 1:14:50Chair Fischer: The questioned is executing on time and on budget. Very proud of what has been accomplished so far. As part of the army's initiative and contact initiative and also working closely with the air force and the missile defense agency.
▶ 1:15:06Chair Fischer: Not only do they have a thad bat write out there with but we have air force capabilities on the anderson air force base and also a couple of sensors and a couple of integrated air missile defense battle command systems, abcs, engagement operations centers so we've started putting campaigns on the island early so we can work on other things we
▶ 1:15:39Chair Fischer: Forecasted we might face. This has also presented an opportunity for the 94th air missile defense command to start sending soldiers down do guam to start training on these systems to start developing tactics and procedures on how to implement and employ the system.
▶ 1:16:02Chair Fischer: Right now we'll conduct our integrated flight test command for a graduation opportunity at a missile flight test campaign for us and then we'll start flowing the bulk of the systems out to guam in the 20 7-2028 time frame so everything remains on schedule and on track.
▶ 1:16:27Chair Fischer: The development of the capability and production of the systems so we're looking forward to continuing to mature and evolve that capability so that it maintenance its relevance against the threats we intend to face. >> thank you, sir. Sen. king?
▶ 1:16:42Sen. King: One final question, secretary berkowitz, what is the justification for this bifurc justification for this bifur bifurcated budget process that we've experienced last year and this year for the first time in your experience. Why do we need to do it this way, which is a radical departure from how defense budgets have been built over the years. What's the justification?
▶ 1:17:14Sec. Berkowitz: Senator, I'd have to give you the same answer I gave you before specifically within the requests for golden dome. The broader budget construction --
▶ 1:17:29Sen. King: It's a one time or -- I don't understand why golden dome is any different than any other defense initiative that require as special budgetary treatment that basically takes it largely out of the purview of congress and congressional oversight.
▶ 1:17:54Sec. Berkowitz: Sir, the answer is the flexibility to address the dynamics of advanciing technology and to accelerate the president's priority.
▶ 1:18:05Sen. King: That's not a very surf answer, I must say. All of the other things you just said could apply to any other majors weapons program we've had in this country. I don't understand why all of a sudden 25% of the defense budget is off limits for the normal appropriations so I'll take that up with -- I think there's a meeting with sec.
▶ 1:18:33Sen. King: Hegseth thursday so warn him. >> thank you. >> thank you, Sen. king. I'd like to thank the pan for being here today and giving us some very good information. Appreciate your service, again. If you have questions for the record those need to be submitted and I hope you will answer them in a timely manner. With that, this subcommittee hearing is adjourned.