▶ 0:14:09Chair Capito: Good morning, after secretary sonderling. Thank you for being here today to testify for the president's 2027 budget request for the department of labor. Appreciate it. Pleased to be joined by my friend senator baldwin, ranking member of the subcommittee.
▶ 0:14:28Chair Capito: I look forward to our continuing our bipartisan work throughout the 27 appropriations process and I understand senator collins may be coming, so we will welcome other members as the hearing moves forward. Under president trump's leadership, department of labor is putting americans first. I'm encouraged to see the department taking steps to strengthen our workforce, cut revelatory red tape so that our nation's job creators can hire, invest, and compete.
▶ 0:14:56Chair Capito: The fiscal year 2020 seven budget request builds on this progress by prioritizing investments that expand workforce, training opportunities, support economic growth, and keep our workers safe. I look forward to hearing more about how the budget advances the department's priorities while ensuring our hard-working taxpayer dollars are well spent. The american economy continues to demonstrate strong growth. Just last month, the economy added 115,000 jobs.
▶ 0:15:27Chair Capito: That exceeded expectations. The un-implement rate remained at 4.3 percent. Wages are also continuing to rise with average hourly earnings of 3.6% over last year. Thanks to the working families tax cuts, small businesses are finally gaining the confidence to expand and create jobs here at home. Yet businesses across the country are still facing persistent workforce shortages.
▶ 0:15:52Chair Capito: This challenge is particular prevalent in my home state of west virginia where our workforce participation rate remains among the lowest in the country. This is why it's so important our workers have access to robust workforce training programs especially those that provide on-the-job training and those focused on in demand jobs.
▶ 0:16:13Chair Capito: Last year, the department had a significant milestone, registering more than 20 300 new apprenticeship programs and adding nearly 300,000 new apprentices nationwide. This is an important step in meeting our country's workforce needs but more must be done. I hope to see the dol continue to build on the success and continued to expand the partnership opportunities to go programs in fields as many valuable apprenticeship opportunities don't fit the current registered apprenticeship model.
▶ 0:16:44Chair Capito: Look forward to learning more about how this budget will support flex ability and innovative career pathways and will advance president trump's goal of surpassing one million active apprentices. While developing a highly skilled workforce is critical, it's. Only part of the equation we must continue advancing competent policies to create an economic environment where businesses can thrive and create good, family sustaining jobs be made we saw with the last administration, excessive government regulation and overreach are major impediments to job growth.
▶ 0:17:17Chair Capito: Under president trump leadership, the department has taken important steps to rollback these burdensome, overly burdensome regulations. For example, I was pleased to see the dol rescind and replace the biden administration's harmful and misguided independent contractor rule. That rule threatened the possibility that so many truck drivers and electricians and other independent contractors rely on.
▶ 0:17:41Chair Capito: The trump administration recognize that many americans value that freedom and opportunity that, being their own laws and choosing the work arrangements that best fit their needs. The new proposed rule would help preserve that flexibility while providing greater clarity and certainty for workers and job creators alike. The department has also expanded the use of opinion letters and compliance assistance to help employers better understand and comply with labor laws.
▶ 0:18:09Chair Capito: I regularly hear from small businesses in west virginia about the challenges of navigating recently complex and constantly changing regulatory landscape. Most employers want to do the right thing and follow the law, but they need clear guidance and workable rules to do so. That is why it's so important to prioritize compliance assistance instead of immediately turning to enforcement action.and possibly litigation this commonsense approach allows employers to invest in their works and their local economy rather than legal fees.
▶ 0:18:40Chair Capito: To be clear, not all regulations are bad. Appropriate protections are essential to keeping hard-working west virginians and americans save especially in west virginia, our miners be researching is the second largest coal producing state in the nation. With president trump acting to restore american energy dominance, our minors will play an even greater role powering our country and keeping the lights on for millions of americans. We cannot lose sight of the fact that money remains one of the most dangerous professions in this country.
▶ 0:19:12Chair Capito: In west virginia alone, six miners lost their lives last year. Every one of those losses is a tragedy. I hope we can continue working together to prevent future tragedies from devastating our mining communities. Look forward to hearing more about the administration's plan to ensure our workplaces are safe so that every worker can return home to their loved ones at the end of the day.
▶ 0:19:33Chair Capito: As we move forward in this fiscal year 2027 appropriations process, I look forward to partnering with you to delivering real results for the american workers, businesses, and taxpayers. Thank you for being here today. I will now turn to senator baldwin.
▶ 0:19:48Sen. Baldwin: Thank you, good morning, thank you chair capito, acting secretary sonderling, thank you for being here. President trump promised to put american workers first, but that has been anything but the case.
▶ 0:20:09Sen. Baldwin: Instead, president trump is focused on building his ballroom, and now securing taxpayer funding for it, starting a war with iran, and making deals that put trump in his billionaire friends and family first. This is all adding tens of billions of dollars and counting to the debt while raising costs for american workers and their families.
▶ 0:20:34Sen. Baldwin: Gas now cost more than $4.50 for regular and nearly six dollars for diesel in the state of wisconsin. The president imposed tariffs that cost the average household $1000 last year, and more this year.
▶ 0:20:51Sen. Baldwin: Those tariffs have also increased costs for farmers, manufacturers, and small businesses, and have been imposed so erratically, it creates uncertainty that makes it impossible for businesses to plan and invest for our economy to work at all. We knew last year that job growth was lackluster, but dol recently announced it was even worse than we thought.
▶ 0:21:23Sen. Baldwin: In february, the bureau of labor statistics revised job growth for all of 2025 down from 584,00 0 two just 181,000, a decrease of 69%. Then last week, we got inflation data that showed rising prices are completely wiping out wage gains. In april, wage growth for the last year was 3.6%, inflation was 3.8%.
▶ 0:21:56Sen. Baldwin: Grocery prices alone increased faster in april than any month in the last four years. American workers and families are feeling this every day. You know who is not? President trump. His net worth increased from an estimated $4.3 billion in 2024 to $7.3 billion this year.
▶ 0:22:20Sen. Baldwin: The administration has talked a big game about putting american workers first, but the administration's rhetoric is wildly inconsistent with its actions. Many of those choices lie at the department of labor's feet. Because of changes the trump administration has made in the department of labor, it is now easier for government contractors to discriminate against female employees by paying them less than men for the same work.
▶ 0:22:47Sen. Baldwin: It is easier to declassify a worker as an independent contractor and denied the benefits they are owed. And workers are more likely to find themselves in unsafe working conditions because there are fewer workplace inspections. Now, we have a budget before us that double down on that. Instead of investing in the workforce, the budget proposes cutting the budget to the department of labor by more than $4 billion, more than 30% of its current funding.
▶ 0:23:20Sen. Baldwin: That includes slashing funding for workforce training in half, including eliminating programs like junk like juob corp. Our economy is rapidly changing. We want our work force to prepare the americans for the job we have today and those not yet seen tomorrow. Cutting funding for workforce training and have does not help achieve that. One thing we can all agree on is the goal of expanding apprenticeships.
▶ 0:23:50Sen. Baldwin: In fact, this subcommittee has increased funding for them in a bipartisan manner from $95 million to $285 million over the last decade. That has helped a number of registered apprenticeships to steadily grow over that time, from approximately 400,000 in 2016 to 666,000 in 2024.
▶ 0:24:17Sen. Baldwin: That trend line has mostly continued and the number of registered apprenticeships has grown modestly to 700,000 this year. Unfortunately, there's also evidence that growth is trailing off. Some experts think, in part, because terminations in infrastructure and energy projects over the past year.
▶ 0:24:39Sen. Baldwin: If we are truly going to reach one million active apprentices someday, we are not going to get there by cutting infrastructure investments that employ these workers, or slashing funding for the workforce training programs that support them. We also need to make sure that employers abide by their requirement to provide a safe and healthful workplace.
▶ 0:25:05Sen. Baldwin: That is why I was so disappointed that osha enforcement dropped last year by more than 4000 inspections, a decrease of 13%, and expected to fall even more this year. Yet, this budget proposes an 8% cut in osha's budget next year.
▶ 0:25:26Sen. Baldwin: The budget also proposes to cut the budget of the international labor affairs bureau by 38%, walking away from efforts to ensure the jobs of wisconsinites and all-americans are not undercut by trading partners not living up to their labor commitments.
▶ 0:25:44Sen. Baldwin: On top of all of this, instead of working every day to help american workers, we also know that the department of labor is instead spending its time figuring out how to administer education programs because the administration wants to eliminate the department of education.
▶ 0:26:07Sen. Baldwin: The trump administration is transferring elementary and secondary education programs to the department of labor, that has no business administering them. Let's be clear. The administration has never attempted to justify or explain how this will improve schools or help students or families.
▶ 0:26:27Sen. Baldwin: Shutting down the department of education was a tagline that the president thought landed well at rallies, and no american families, teachers, and most importantly children are paying the price for it. Chair capito, I appreciate the work that we were able to do on last year's budget with the support of chair collins, vice chair murray.
▶ 0:26:49Sen. Baldwin: I am committed to developing a fiscal year 2027 appropriations bill that supports the nation's workforce and provides the department of labor with the resources it needs to carry out the essential functions assigned to it by law.
▶ 0:27:06Chair Capito: Thank you very much. We will now turn to our witness, acting secretary of labor, keith sonderling. Acting secretary, you are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:27:21Sec. Sonderling: Thank you, chair capito, ranking member murra mu baldwin, members of the subcommittee. I'm appear to be here on behalf of president trump and the hard-working team at the department of labor. American workers and american businesses are the backbone of the american economy. American growth and increased opportunity for the american workforce are hallmarks of president trump's administration.
▶ 0:27:48Sec. Sonderling: America needs a skilled and competitive workforce to keep the economy growing at a rapid pace it's been going. Fiscal year 2027, department of labor budget is a key vehicle for the trump administration's efforts to renew the american dreaming, revitalizing and reshaping the nation's workforce into a highly skilled powerhouse. Every member of this committee can agree on one thing, american workers are the best in the world.
▶ 0:28:16Sec. Sonderling: They deserve a highly effective workforce development system to help them acquire the skills they need to thrive in a booming economy. Thanks to president trump, the american economy is the hottest in the world again. Job growth continues to accelerate in 2026. March and april's job supports crushed expectations. The investments president trump is making in our workforce like the historic working families tax cuts, which many of you supported, are paying off.
▶ 0:28:46Sec. Sonderling: Over 6 million filers have claimed no tax on tips with an average deduction of $7,100. Over 21 million filers have filed no tax on overtime with an average deduction of over $3100. President trump has added over 700,000 jobs to the workforce so far in his administration. To support american workers getting these jobs, the department is committed to ensuring american workers have the skills they need by reimagining workforce developing programs to make america skilled again.
▶ 0:29:17Sec. Sonderling: For instance, dol registered over 3600 new apprenticeship programs and nearly 400,000 new apprentices providing a debt-free pathway to high-paying and in demand jobs. When these workers are in these newly created private sector jobs, president trump believes they deserve a safe and healthy workplace.
▶ 0:29:38Sec. Sonderling: That is why the department of labor's budget continues to protect the safety and financial security of all workers by fully and fairly enforcing the laws through our numerous enforcement mechanisms. The department is also ensuring that enforcement is used to prevent american workers from being unfairly displaced or disadvantaged by foreign workers.
▶ 0:29:59Sec. Sonderling: At the same time, the department of labor is helping businesses grow by delivering on president trump's deregulatory agenda by quickly removing unnecessary and burdensome regulations. Department is also supporting job creators by promoting compliance assistance program to prevent violation from occurring in the first place. We've also engaged in common sense will make it to support business models like independent contracting and franchise industries.
▶ 0:30:26Sec. Sonderling: We are expanding retirement investment options, lowering prescription drug costs, and creating new programs to help americans start the family they dream of. Finally, the department of labor as a member of the white house task force to eliminate fraud is working closely with the vice president and our inspector general daily supporting president trump's promise to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse, assuring every dollar that this committee gives us will help the american worker and not be wasted or were stolen.
▶ 0:30:57Sec. Sonderling: The budget reflects the necessary reforms to enable dol to fulfill its statutory responsibilities in the most cost-effective way. Since the start of this administration, department of labor has proven its ability to maximize the value of taxpayer dollars all while protecting and supporting the american workers and job creators. The budget focuses the department on its highest priority functions and this invests in programs that are wasteful, duplicative, unproven, and ineffective.
▶ 0:31:26Sec. Sonderling: From cutting red tape or job creators to defending our workers and preparing them for the jobs of the future, the department of labor's fiscal year 2027 but it helps to keep president trump's promise, to make the american dreaming achievable. Building a new golden age of prosperity for all american workers. Thank you for the opportunity to share the vision with you today. I look forward to discussing with all of you.
▶ 0:31:49Chair Capito: Thank you very much. I will turn the first questioning over to the chair of the full committee, we are happy she is here. Senator collins, thank you.
▶ 0:32:03Sen. Collins: Thank you, madam chair. Welcome to our witness. Last year, the department paused operations at job corps centers across the country and halted enrollment for a time completely at maine's two job centers. This caused significant uncertainty, distress, disruption for both the students and staff.
▶ 0:32:36Sen. Collins: I am very familiar with both of the job corps centers in the state of maine. One is in bangor, where I live, the other is in lower limestone in northern maine where I'm from.
▶ 0:32:51Sen. Collins: I know they have a record of preparing students will to go directly into the workforce by giving them the skills they need , or to pursue higher education, or to go directly into the military in short, job corps provides young people with life-changing opportunities to develop workforce skills, develop credentials, and build a pathway to a successful future.
▶ 0:33:24Sen. Collins: I want to give you an example today. Joe was a shot that came to the center in limestone, maine. To pursue advanced cyber security training.
▶ 0:33:42Sen. Collins: After graduating from job corps, joshua went on to the northern maine unity college where he was recently named student of the year in recognition of his academic excellence, leadership, and service to the campus. Following graduation, joshua will return to the job corps center where he has accepted a full-time position as the job corps center's I.t.
▶ 0:34:13Sen. Collins: Administrator. Stories like joshua's who came from a very difficult background shows the effectiveness of job corps in helping students turn around their lives and pursue successful careers.
▶ 0:34:31Sen. Collins: While congress rejected soundly, on a bipartisan basis, last year's budget was proposed the elimination of job corps, the administration's actions have hurt job corps. For example, enrollment at job corps centers has fallen to roughly 55%.
▶ 0:34:55Sen. Collins: These disruptions raise serious concerns about the department's ability to fairly and accurately evaluate the program's effectiveness. When operations are paused and funds are halted, naturally, participation rates, outcomes, and overall performance metrics are inevitably affected.
▶ 0:35:21Sen. Collins: I am very disappointed that the department's 2027 budget request once again proposes eliminating job corps. Part of the department's justification is the performance data that has been distorted by the department's own actions. You talked about eliminating wasteful, ineffective programs. None of us want to fund ineffective, wasteful programs.
▶ 0:35:51Sen. Collins: But I know that that is not an accurate description of job corps. In light of the disruption that the department caused, the uncertainty about the future of job corps, how can you use the metrics of decreased enrollments to fairly and accurately evaluate this program?
▶ 0:36:17Sec. Sonderling: Thank you, senator, for that story. That is a really important story. It is touching. Those from our workforce developing program, those are stories we want to hear. We want to see students get into these federally funded programs from all different diverse backgrounds job corps specifically, 16 to 24, and your centers in maine, especially with shipbuilding, which is coming back to maine, connecticut, rhode island, that is the stories we want to hear,
▶ 0:36:49Sec. Sonderling: How students are getting into these federally funded programs and being efficient. But a lot of the statistics we have seen on job corps don't show that specific story that you have told us. We want more of those stories. The president's budget, while limiting job corps, is moving money into the make america skilled program to be able to still help students like that get into specific programs they want and have that very specific successful outcome. That is what we want to see in all of our programs across the board.
▶ 0:37:17Sen. Collins: I am glad that you mention the shipbuilding pipefitter program. That has been extraordinarily successful. Bath iron works, other employers in maine are so grateful for job corps providing that training. Those students go directly into the workforce, filling a gap. I really think we need to take a second look at this.
▶ 0:37:48Sen. Collins: Let me switch to one other issue in the time I have remaining. That has to do with the h2b visas. I realize the role of the department of homeland security, but the department of labor plays a critical role here as well. Last year, in the state of maine, we had more than 13 million tourists visit the state. We are a state of 1.3 million people.
▶ 0:38:19Sen. Collins: 10 times the population of maine visited our state. Naturally, when you have that kind of disparity, employers in maine simply cannot find the workers to meet the demand during peak months. These tourists spend 9.4 billion dollars in our state last year alone. This is incredibly important to our economy.
▶ 0:38:51Sen. Collins: H2b visas are absolutely critical to fill this gap. Just this morning, I met with two hotel owners who describe the problems that they have. I continually hear from employers about the delays in the processing of h2b applications, and for many of these businesses, timing is critical and delays can have serious economic consequences.
▶ 0:39:24Sen. Collins: I think, personally, and employer who has a good record of five years of complying with all of the laws, we shouldn't count that employer against the numbers. I also think we should bring the bush administration's returning worker program, where if someone had worked one year, gone back home, came back, gone back home, does not count against the cap.
▶ 0:39:55Sen. Collins: It is my understanding the administration is open to those changes. But what steps is the department of labor taking to improve the timely processing of h2b visa applications so that employers in maine can access the workers they need in time to meet the seasonal demand?
▶ 0:40:16Sec. Sonderling: I was able to travel with the vice president to maine last week. I was able to see how beautiful it is. I understand the economy really relies on these h2b visas especially in the summer.
▶ 0:40:30Sec. Sonderling: The president but it does propose a new office of the department of labor called the office of immigration policy, pull some of our immigration work from other agencies to one centralized source, to not only process faster but have the customer service for workers, employers who need these temporary work visas. We are very committed to that. It's been a big effort of hours in this administration to make sure that seasonal workers have the process, dedicated office to do that.
▶ 0:40:57Sen. Collins: I look forward to working with you on that. Thank you.
▶ 0:41:01Chair Capito: Senator baldwin.
▶ 0:41:04Sen. Baldwin: Thank you, madam chair. My question is also about coordination, efficiencies. Acting secretary sonderling, the trump administration's america talent strategy report stated "america's workforce developing programs are spread across multiple federal agencies, funding streams, and statutory authorities resulting in a system that is confusing to navigate, and if it is to operate, and difficult to manage."
▶ 0:41:36Sen. Baldwin: The trump administration is, at the same time, taking education programs, administered currently by one agency, and spreading them now across multiple federal agencies and multiple grant systems. How is that going to simplify coordinate, or improve anything for states and schools?
▶ 0:41:54Sec. Sonderling: Thank you, senator. I appreciate the conversations in our offices. I look forward to that continuing. As far as the question you are answering, we believe this is the most efficient way for our federal dollars in the programs to get out to states. What we found is a lot of the stakeholders of the states work with the department of education, work with the department of labor.
▶ 0:42:22Sec. Sonderling: Through the interagency agreements under the economy act, our systems at the department of labor are very sophisticated, already dealing with stakeholders, and we are working with the education department to help administer them -
▶ 0:42:34Sen. Baldwin: I will give you another opportunity to address this. To be clear, this is looking to do with improving schools or helping students and families. Roughly two thirds of the special education students spend 80% of the school day in a regular classroom. Nearly 20% of american indian and alaska native students are served under the idea act.
▶ 0:43:01Sen. Baldwin: Yet, this administration is scattering these programs across multiple federal agencies and creating just what you are arguing plagues the workforce developing system. Now, onto another issue. I'm also deeply concerned that department of labor does not have the expertise or capacity to administer many of the programs that are being moved to there.
▶ 0:43:28Sen. Baldwin: More than 1000 school districts serving native american students and students from military families receive critical funding through the impactaid program. Does the department of labor have any experience with the impact aid program or its grant system through which the school districts apply for that critical funding, yes or no?
▶ 0:43:50Sec. Sonderling: I can tell you for all the programs that we have iaa agreements with department education, department of labor, working with staff, has the system to administer these grants more efficiently and faster than before.
▶ 0:44:04Sen. Baldwin: You were incorrect on that account. In fact, impact aid, school district have been saying you created a special interface for us to request and get the impact aid in the department of education. Now you propose to substitute it with something that is not customized for that purpose.
▶ 0:44:31Sen. Baldwin: The department of labor just doesn't have any expertise in using critical systems that are school districts serving military families and native american students are relying on. I asked secretary mcmahon this question three weeks ago, are you aware that the department of labor inspector general has consistently noted challenges that department of labor has in administering its own existing grant portfolio?
▶ 0:44:57Sec. Sonderling: I am in contact with the inspector general to make sure that all of the recommendations from that office are reasonably dealt with. All I know from the current systems that are administering and actually moving some of the perkins five money under the office have been going smoothly. States have been getting their money. States have been able to apply and come together into one plan.
▶ 0:45:22Sen. Baldwin: Earlier this year, on the point I made about the inspector general, they said this about the department of labor's top management performance challenges. "navigating shared program management with the department of education may present operational challenges for the employment training administration, as identified in previous audits, eta is challenged, in effectively managing its grant portfolio.
▶ 0:45:51Sen. Baldwin: The oig has consistently found issues associated with grant oversight, performance results, and ensuring grant funds are used effectively to achieve outcomes."
▶ 0:46:09Sec. Sonderling: We have been administering the cte programs and we have had 4182 process payments with over $1.2 billion to 57 unique states and territories. We are seeing our systems working and we see that the states and workforce agencies and education systems are getting their money through one source working together with department of labor and department of education. From our perspective, it is working and it will help the students and workforce development.
▶ 0:46:31Chair Capito: Thank you. Acting secretary, I mentioned about coal miners my opening statement. I know that the -- you just released the statistic that mining injury rates hit a record low in 2025, but when you lose six in one state, who lost their lives, that is six to many, I'm sure you will agree. Can you discuss how this budget prioritizes mine safety?
▶ 0:47:04Chair Capito: I know that you have some cuts and redistributions.
▶ 0:47:06Sec. Sonderling: Mine health safety is one of the top priorities of the department of labor especially with the president's commitment to bring energy manufacturing back to the united states. In this administration, we are really proud that in 2025, the injury rates were the lowest. That is what matters to us. We are going to continue to do that by working with minors, working on compliance assistance.
▶ 0:47:35Sec. Sonderling: Although there are some but it cuts related to the operations, that is related to efficiencies. Seven offices.have gone to five we are investing in technology in these helmets that use ai and heat maps, can transcribe the environments. More importantly, we are hiring mine health safety inspectors and investigators. We inspect 160 new inspectors.
▶ 0:48:03Sec. Sonderling: Even with the president's budget, how it's framed, it is more about efficiency, more technology, while continuing to make sure the mines in west virginia and around the country are safe. We are seeing that by the all injury rates being at a record low.
▶ 0:48:16Chair Capito: Thank you for the emphasis on that. That is extremely important not just in coal mining but all those other mining jobs are very difficult but keep the country moving. I wanted to ask about unemployment insurance, waste, fraud, and abuse. Gao report said the department of labor had an improper payment rate of about 15% which is well above the federal compliance threshold.
▶ 0:48:44Chair Capito: I did note in my preamble to my statement, I don't think I knew this, but there is a federal compliance threshold of 10% of which I personally think is too high. That means one of every $10 that goes out is an acceptable rate if it is improperly used. This has been a big emphasis for the president. What are you doing to improve program's integrity, tamp down improper payments?
▶ 0:49:11Chair Capito: Do you go to an enforcement mechanism, recoup any of the dollars? What do you do with those dollars? I really think this is an area where we could have much improvement from the dol and other areas, as well.
▶ 0:49:24Sec. Sonderling: In my opening statement, I brought this up here we are members of the white house task force related to fraud, and this is a top priority. It is a two-pronged approach. Number one from the department of labor's perspective come to make sure improper payments stop. That the states have the proper identification systems to make sure that not a single dollar goes out. What we saw during the pandemic, as this committee knows well, up to $135 billion fraud occurred related to ui fraud.
▶ 0:49:55Sec. Sonderling: We have asked for additional funding to make sure our integrity systems can help us with verification. That is on the front-end, working within the department, with the states to make sure that no money goes out improperly. On the backend, it is working with our inspector general's office that has the criminal authority to go after bad actors who stole this money. That is what we are doing. It is work to stop money from going out and making sure the verification systems are there.
▶ 0:50:27Sec. Sonderling: On the backend, aggressively prosecuting unemployment insurance fraud. We have deployed strike team to high-risk states, really looking at ways to use technology in the programs to work with our state partners to make sure they have the tools they need.
▶ 0:50:41Chair Capito: Are you finding that the states are upping their game? Ultimately, the information comes from the states.
▶ 0:50:49Sec. Sonderling: We are working closely with states and territories to make sure they are using the identification systems. We created unemployment.gov to get states to use that come to send the information to us first so that we can verify the claims. Also the data sharing in states is what is most important, to see where those payments are.
▶ 0:51:09Chair Capito: Are there any penalties to states who don't exceed the amount of noncompliance?
▶ 0:51:14Sec. Sonderling: There are certain administrative remedies we can take. We are looking into that right now.
▶ 0:51:20Chair Capito: So you're not doing it now but you are looking into it.
▶ 0:51:23Sec. Sonderling: We are in the process of doing everything we can to make sure the states are using our systems.
▶ 0:51:29Chair Capito: The states are always responsive when there is money on the line here. They are the ones that will be held responsible for this. In reference to increasing apprenticeships, training new students, young adults, even retraining others that have been in the workforce, those extra dollars will be critical.
▶ 0:51:52Sec. Sonderling: That is a big part of the president's task force, and there will be many announcements coming up on this exact issue to not only prevent fraud but to prosecute.
▶ 0:52:01Chair Capito: Senator murphy.
▶ 0:52:05Sen. Murphy: Thank you, madam chair. First let me make a comment on job corps. I think this is a grave mistake. We have two programs in connecticut, hartford and new haven come have served kids for a very long time. These are kids who have just hit enormous struggles in their life . A large percentage of these kids have pretty significant disabilities, come from difficult backgrounds.
▶ 0:52:29Sen. Murphy: I guess what makes me maddest is inside the but it is a false narrative of what is happening inside these programs. You have created an impression that these programs are rife with sexual abuse and unsafe conditions, and that is just fundamentally not true. In fact, he gao report noted to the extent there are kids in these programs who pass away, that happens in their communities in part because they live in pretty unsafe places.
▶ 0:52:57Sen. Murphy: Job corps tend to be the safe place for them. I just think it is really important that we set the record straight on what is happening. The question I want to ask you is about our defense industrial base. You mentioned there is a surge in shipbuilding in certain parts of the country, connecticut is one of those places. We are being asked by the federal government, department of defense, to dramatically increase the number of submarines that we are making.
▶ 0:53:29Sen. Murphy: A long-overdue investment. But this but this budget is a killer for us because you are proposing a record decrease in funding for dol, 26% reduction. There is absolutely no way that doesn't result in fewer job training slots. In connecticut, we cannot make the submarines, helicopters, cannot make the jet engines without a significant contribution from the department of labor.
▶ 0:54:00Sen. Murphy: Writ large, in our economy, the only way that we are going to be able to keep up with china, which will always be able to make stuff cheaper, is to have a highly educated and trained workforce. Let me ask you a pretty simple question. You are proposing a 26 percent overall cut, asking us to endorse it. Highly unlikely that we will do that. But if we were, if the department was to shrink by a quarter, would you end up funding more or less of training slots then you do today?
▶ 0:54:30Sec. Sonderling: Thank you, senator. You bring up an incredible point on shipbuilding. That been one of the priorities for this administration on workforce development, believes shipbuilding is prime for the partnership program which we are doing everything we can to get more students in. We have a 35.8 million fund related to manufacturing which includes shipbuilding. We also have two cooperative agreements with 13.8 million to send U.S.
▶ 0:54:56Sec. Sonderling: Workers overseas to get the training from south korea and finland that are experts in this, especially places like connecticut where shipbuilding has. Come back we have our absolute commitment that we are using federal dollars to make sure we have a skilled workforce in shipbuilding and get them through registration.
▶ 0:55:12Sen. Murphy: Just answer the basic question. With a record decrease, you are requesting a 26% reduction. You are asking us to train less workers in this country with dol dollars, correct?
▶ 0:55:26Sec. Sonderling: No, we are asking you to put the money and more effective programs.
▶ 0:55:30Sen. Murphy: That is not credible. I respect the job you have, and I know that you are here in this position, but it is not credible to come before this committee and say you are asking for a 25% reduction, and you are going to train more workers and provide more training value. That isjust not credible.
▶ 0:55:49Sec. Sonderling: Our budget moves a lot of these programs into one place where we can get the states the money, not restricted like it has been before, certain programs that are effective, earmarking that money versus the general ability to give a state, then connecticut decides how they will use that.
▶ 0:56:06Sen. Murphy: That is a different issue. You are going to give the states the money and allow them to decide, but the overall amount of money that is going to be dedicated to training is going to be a quarter lower than it is today. I just think it's important that you tell us that we are going to train less people with federal dollars, and you are going to as the private sector and states to pick up the difference. That is just true.
▶ 0:56:32Sec. Sonderling: The program we are seeking to eliminate were not necessarily effective. We believe we can train more workers more efficiently and effectively by moving to the budget program as proposed.
▶ 0:56:43Sen. Murphy: Then why not give us a budget with a flat funding or 10% reduction and replace the programs that are not working with programs that are working? You are elevating programs and replacing them with nothing.
▶ 0:56:56Sec. Sonderling: We are allowing the state to design the programs as opposed to shoveling the money into one silo where the states get that money but may not have the workers, advantages that are the states have. We want states to make those investments specifically to your workforce.
▶ 0:57:11Sen. Murphy: It is ultimately less money to do the job. I don't know how a state like connecticut fills that gap. I don't know how electric boat fills the gap without significant federal dollars. There is just no way to explain it 25% reduction without also explaining to the private sector and states that there will be less training slots funded by the federal government.
▶ 0:57:36Sen. Murphy: I don't think we are going to adopt this budget, but if we did, it would be a very dangerous prescription, especially for states like connecticut who are bearing a lion's share of the defense industrial manufacturing load.
▶ 0:57:47Chair Capito: Senator britt.
▶ 0:57:51Sen. Britt: Already? Thank you. Acting secretary sonderling, thank you for being here today. It was great to see you last week at the white house where the mother's day event celebrating mothers and their families. I was especially encouraged by the spotlight you placed on the department of labor's new proposed rulemaking to create a category of fertility benefits.
▶ 0:58:16Sen. Britt: As a mother myself, someone who have dedicated much of my time in the senate to supporting working families, I'd like you to walk us through the details of that important initiative. Can you tell us what specific services would qualify under this new accepted benefit category, how will that give employers more flexibility to support their employees, and what are the real world impacts of this?
▶ 0:58:40Sen. Britt: How do you expect that that will ultimately help more families be able to start or grow their family?
▶ 0:58:47Sec. Sonderling: Thank you, senator. Great to be with you in the oval. As the president beautifully said, you have been the champion on this issue. The reason we can have this discussion is because of your advocacy. From the department of labor standpoint, from the american worker standpoint, we thank you. We released a proposed rulemaking to make fertility benefits more affordable and accessible.
▶ 0:59:15Sec. Sonderling: Right now, nearly 60% of employers don't offer any fertility coverage at all. This administration wants to change that. We are expanding axis by doing a new category of health care insurance related to fertility benefits. When you go to your employer, you have your core health care plan, you have a dental and vision plan that are separate. That is exactly what we've done, groundbreaking for fertility care.
▶ 0:59:45Sec. Sonderling: This new accepted benefit will be related to fertility coverage. We believe that will really change how employers operate and provide these coverages. 60% don't. We believe when this will go's final, it will double the amount of employers offering this benefit. That is exactly what we want to do. More importantly, when this goes into effect, we believe this will impact 750,000 employees.
▶ 1:00:16Sec. Sonderling: That is 20% of the current birthing population right now just because of this benefit. It was able under your guidance and assistance, pushing us to do this. What is most significant about this, it allows the employers to design the plan for them. They know their workforce best. They can design these benefits to their exact workforce. Fertility is broad. It also impacts in income as well. The whole process of fertility.
▶ 1:00:47Sec. Sonderling: That is what this proposal is so exciting. We know it will have very big impact on creating american families.
▶ 1:00:53Sen. Britt: We are thrilled and thank you again for your work on this. We know that it is changing lives and creating hope and helping people, you know, like I said, start or grow their families. What a blessing that is. We appreciate it and look forward to continuing to work with you on that as we gain exit to as many people as possible. I want to turn to another major issue facing alabama's workforce.
▶ 1:01:22Sen. Britt: 95% of contraction workforce in our state is nonunion. By current federal policy, many of our qualified construction companies simply have not been able to do this because they are not union shops. They have been proportionately affected by some of the rulemaking we have seen.
▶ 1:01:42Sen. Britt: I understand the department of labor does not issue the federal acquisition regulations, but dol has been used to justify federal pla policy on the theory that these agreements promote safety, stability, efficiency. In alabama, we have seen the opposite. Government mandated pla's are increasing costs, slowing delivery, reducing competition, particularly for small non-pla contractors.
▶ 1:02:11Sen. Britt: Will you commit to providing the subcommittee with the relevant department of labor data that has been used to justify these federal pla mandates?
▶ 1:02:18Sec. Sonderling: Absolutely, we will always work with her I was give whatever information you need. Let me pivot on construction because you raise a great point. The president investment are paying off. We see construction jobs increasing difficulty in the first quarter. We want to make sure american workers are getting those jobs and skills. We are really pushing students to get into registered apprenticeships, to build these factories, data centers that are coming to the U.S.. High-paying jobs.
▶ 1:02:48Sec. Sonderling: We want to make sure that we are doing everything policy wise to continue that instruction, continuing to make sure these americans get these high-paying jobs.
▶ 1:02:54Sen. Britt: Thank you so much. Look forward to continuing to work with you.
▶ 1:02:58Chair Capito: Senator shaheen.
▶ 1:03:02Sen. Shaheen: Thank you for being here, acting secretary. Let me first associate my comments with senator murphy. I share his belief that job corps centers have been really important. I led a 15-your bipartisan effort in new hampshire to bring the job corps center to manchester. I am really proud of the center we have their.
▶ 1:03:29Sen. Shaheen: For more than a decade, that center has partnered with local community colleges, trade schools to help meet workforce needs. I know that shipbuilding is one of the priorities of this administration. They have worked with places like the shipyard, granite state manufacturing, where we are engaged with shipbuilding. It's an important part of the solution to our workforce challenges in new hampshire.
▶ 1:03:56Sen. Shaheen: In fact, the new hampshire campus recently hosted the aerospace consortium which were presented -- simmering industrial base program office to learn more about how job corps can partner with those entities to address the shipbuilding challenge that we have in this country.
▶ 1:04:21Sen. Shaheen: Can you talk about whether the department has identified additional sectors within the defense industrial base or job corps pipelines can help address those critical labor shortages?
▶ 1:04:31Sec. Sonderling: Thank you, senator. We are in complete agreements on the shipbuilding convicted and there are pathways to do that. The industrial base has been a very big thing for the president to bring back here. We believe we play a really significant role. We believe that registered apprenticeships across industry is the way to get there.
▶ 1:04:55Sec. Sonderling: You look at not only aerospace but even just mechanics for airplanes, for the air force, commercial, is really a ripe opportunity to continue to use that same model as an shipbuilding to get skilled workers into these high-paying jobs.
▶ 1:05:10Sen. Shaheen: We agree. We think that we have a program like job corps working well, it doesn't make sense to set up a whole new program to do the same job that the existing program can do, that cost more money and takes more time. I hope that you look at some of those successes and recognize how important they are to working with our companies in new hampshire.
▶ 1:05:36Sen. Shaheen: I want to change topic for my second question. I hear frequently from small businesses in new hampshire who are really struggling to find workers. We have a very low unemployment rate in our state. Many of those businesses, particularly seasonal businesses, rely on h2b visas to fill temporary jobs because they cannot get americans to build those jobs.
▶ 1:06:04Sen. Shaheen: As you know, employers must first receive approval for a labor certification from dol before they can apply for those visas from the department of homeland security. In recent years, my constituents have told me delay in releasing supplemental h2b visas as well as processing backlogs at dol have prevented seasonal businesses in new hampshire from accessing the visas they need in time for their busy season. We are already into that season this year.
▶ 1:06:34Sen. Shaheen: Can you talk about what you are doing to address those backlogs, how we can reassure new hampshire small businesses and small businesses across the country -- because this is not a challenge unique to new hampshire. That they will be able to see a timely adjudication of visas so they can get the workers they need?
▶ 1:06:56Sec. Sonderling: I completely understand the seasonal workforce issues in certain states around the country. The president's budget proposes creating a new office of the department of labor called the office of immigration policy, where it takes a lot of those functions related to our immigration portfolio and the visas into a new office solely dedicated for customer service, improve processing, investing in technology. That is a very key thing that we are proud of.
▶ 1:07:27Sen. Shaheen: When do you expect that to happen, how long will that take? As I've said, we have already missed the season for many of our small businesses. Is it going to be in place so that next season it can better address the visa concerns that small businesses have?
▶ 1:07:43Sec. Sonderling: We continue to work with all of our stakeholders including uscis, department of homeland security, to make sure everything is processed properly, that our systems are not only up-to-date but communicating. That has been the big push in this administration for that not only customer service, to make sure the agencies are talking together so that when you come to department of labor, it gets over to homeland security quick so you can get to seasonal workers.
▶ 1:08:10Sen. Shaheen: I appreciate the intent, but it is not working. The small businesses that we are hearing from are still having trouble. They are having trouble communicating with the department, trouble getting a commitment from both labor and department of homeland security to get those h2b visas. I hope that you'll be willing to work with us as we try to address some of those specific concerns.
▶ 1:08:35Sec. Sonderling: Absolutely you have my commitment. I understand the importance of seasonal workers in your state.
▶ 1:08:41Chair Capito: Senator hyde-smith.
▶ 1:08:46Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you, madam chairman. Thank you for being here today. We are going to talk about h2a workers, farmers and ranchers throughout the country. In mississippi, I am hearing from so many that also, like the h2 b workers, we cannot get our h2 a visas, cannot get them processed. Specifically this year, we saw considerable delays in that.
▶ 1:09:12Sen. Hyde-Smith: I am just going to go on with senator shaheen, the agriculture society really needs your help on that because crops do not keep. We have a job to feed this country. It is very critical on that. The demand is growing for more of these workers. I'm really interested in what you were saying about the office of immigration policy.
▶ 1:09:41Sen. Hyde-Smith: Could you tell us a little more about your communications with our offices with that? I think all 100 senators will need a really good pipeline to you on that, to address these key concerns. Supporting your livestock and dairy operations, providing seasonal has been an issue. We have to milk those cows every day, year-round.
▶ 1:10:09Sen. Hyde-Smith: That has been in a breeze for a stronger account of the measures for the employers, workers. Can you comment on some of the things that I'm asking you to right now?
▶ 1:10:20Sec. Sonderling: Absolutely. Technically it is the office of for labor, certificates, a buzzword for immigration policy. Let me address the h2a issue. I have heard from growers across the country, I'm going to agriculture conferences, I have been on h2a investigations with our staff at the department of labor.
▶ 1:10:42Sec. Sonderling: I have seen firsthand how important it is for our growers to have the workforce that can actually pick these american crops and continue with the demand not only here in the united states but exporting our produce across the world, how important that is. They need workers. That is on the department of labor to make sure we are working with the rover community, to make sure they have the ability to come to us to get the customer service.
▶ 1:11:09Sec. Sonderling: It can get very complicated, as you know, with the forms, which we are always trying to supply. The process with the department of homeland security, department of state as well. That is the goal. We are working with the senate very closely on this proposal to have that dedicated office related to processing h2a. The other side is making sure the wages for the agricultural workers reflect their local markets.
▶ 1:11:37Sec. Sonderling: When I talk to growers, we talked about the increased cost of labor because of these programs. We have a very historic rule that has gone out related to making sure the wages for h2a workers still are not displacing U.S. workers, but also giving the growers an opportunity, ability to afford these workers to be able to pick these crops.
▶ 1:12:01Sec. Sonderling: The worst thing you can have, and I've heard this from growers across the country, is not having the labor force because it is potentially too expensive under these programs, and have american crops rot or not be able to be picked. That is our goal, to continue to address these issues, to give growers and workers what they need. More importantly, making sure american workers who want these opportunities get these opportunities and are paid fairly.
▶ 1:12:26Sen. Hyde-Smith: We would love to have more american workers, they are just not out there. These are hard jobs. Seasonal sometimes. Year-round on most of our ag issues. I want to talk about weowa.
▶ 1:12:46Sen. Hyde-Smith: I'm hearing the concerns from stakeholders that current performance measures place greater weight on precipitation and process metrics than on a long-term workforce outcome. We are hearing from our stakeholders there. They are expressing interest in moving forward on the accountability sector that measures where a program successfully connects workers to sustainable, in demand employment opportunities.
▶ 1:13:16Sen. Hyde-Smith: If you could comment on that in terms of wioa accountability measures. What is the department doing to put greater emphasis on outcomes such as employment placement, earnings growth, alignment with employer workforce needs?
▶ 1:13:28Sec. Sonderling: Administering money to the states, it's very important that the taxpayers and all of you understand where it is going. More importantly, as identifiable outcomes for the students or those job seekers in the programs. On our website for the employment training, we have a very detailed, more transparent than ever about the wioa funding in states that may not be meeting the metrics we need, working with them carefully.
▶ 1:13:57Sec. Sonderling: It is critical to note, in the president's fiscal 27 budget, make america skilled again, grant program really addresses all of this to make sure the states are getting the dollars they need for the programs they decide are best for the states without the rigidity of those existing wioa programs. That is why we are very excited about the make america skilled budget because it not only has those transparency metrics that you are asking for, states want to see, understand how they will be graded.
▶ 1:14:28Sec. Sonderling: It gives a much more for its ability in this program so when they get those dollars, actually going to jobs and industries within the state, to be able to increase legalization of these funds.
▶ 1:14:43Chair Capito: Sen. husted:.
▶ 1:14:45Sen. Husted: Thank you for being here today. I will echo some of the things I've heard from my colleagues about visas. This is an ongoing issue. I heard it in the last administration and hearing it in this administration. People needed, that is why hope we can pass the ability to help more people, american citizens, actually, take some of these jobs and go to work full-time in our nation.
▶ 1:15:15Sen. Husted: But I want to talk with you about apprenticeships first off. Ohio is the number one state in the midwest and number three state in the country for apprenticeships. We have leaned into it. We are good at it. We have a great system. Always working to make it better.
▶ 1:15:35Sen. Husted: It is one thing I had not heard a lot of complaints about, so now I see the changes that are being offered under the make america skilled again umbrella, it forces me to ask the question, what are we changing about it and why would this be better in the current program that we have because we want to see apprenticeships grow in this country, more more people can take jobs, graduate high school,
▶ 1:16:06Sen. Husted: Or as young adult, become an apprentice, earn and learn rather than having to go to college maybe get trained for a job that isn't there? We know these jobs exist because people want to apprentice them. So why would it be better?
▶ 1:16:20Sec Sonderling: Thank you. Ohio number three, michigan is number four. But you hit the nail on the head. A partnership works. Everyone agrees it is an incredible pathway to high-paying jobs where the employer designs a program.
▶ 1:16:40Sec Sonderling: So far in this administration under the president's executive order, to get to one million registered apprenticeships, which is what he wants and what we will deliver on, it is making sure their current program is not only working right but how can we make it better? How would keene make it easier -- how can we make it easier for a place to spend money to get into this program and it really benefit the workers and get a free pathway. The improvements are significant.
▶ 1:17:09Sec Sonderling: Your specific question on the make america skilled budget, we believe it will create more apprenticeships. The grants will require grantees to spend at least 10% of all the funds we give them unregistered apprenticeship programs.
▶ 1:17:22Sen. Husted: What are they spitting now?
▶ 1:17:23Sec Sonderling: Right now, a lot of the wioa programs, going to specific states being used for specific programs. A lot of states don't necessarily need those programs or have the workers and it is money that cannot spend. This budget really says all the dollars that you're giving you, we want that registered apprenticeship program there and use 10% of the money to continue to foster apprenticeships.
▶ 1:17:51Sec Sonderling: We believe this will only increase and make registered partnerships expand.
▶ 1:17:57Sen. Husted: It is dedicating at least 10% of the money to registered partnerships whereas before there was not a standard to do that.
▶ 1:18:02Sec. Sonderling: Correct.
▶ 1:18:06Sen. Husted: And you believe you will get to that one million number?
▶ 1:18:08Sec. Sonderling: I will do everything to expand the aperture to get industries that they thought they could not have registered a partnership into these programs because it works for everybody. That is our job. That is what we do every single day. A couple of weeks ago we celebrated registered a partnership week. We had 3000 events around the country to promote this type of workforce training.
▶ 1:18:31Sen. Husted: So when you were going through your confirmation process and we talked about the bureau of labor statistics, which is a monthly have been over the years working on issues and workforce developing an economic develop and have seen how widely these numbers fluctuate.
▶ 1:18:54Sen. Husted: I think there were often 24 by over one million jobs or some crazy number like that that was off 700,000 jobs or something like that. And so you are asking for less money. What is it you're going to do with less money generate a better outcome and making sure these statistics, which people -- there is news on them every time they come out.
▶ 1:19:22Sen. Husted: People say, this is stock market goes up or down and -- what is going to make sure these numbers are more accurate?
▶ 1:19:27Sec. Sonderling: We have talked about this a lot and we both care about transparency and accountability, to make sure these numbers come out. The american public understand how they occur. The president's budget proposes within that cut to move bureau of labor statistics to the commerce department to combine it with the census bureau and the bureau of economic analysis.
▶ 1:19:50Sec. Sonderling: So even though there is a post cut related to the department specifically, goes into the broader commerce division where they can leverage their data, leverage their staff, increase cost effectiveness, improve data quality, and reduce redundant operations. The fiscal 2027 president's budget moves the bureau of labor statistics to commerce. That is why that cut is in there so they can continue to share resources.
▶ 1:20:17Sen. Husted: Is a system going to be the same system or are they going to use a new system to come up with these numbers? Because the old system is wildly inaccurate and it is basically no better than pulling data.
▶ 1:20:28Sec. Sonderling: That is the benefit of their president's proposal to move it where they can create new systems and see what works from the commerce side, since aside, bureau of labor statistics side, create one new data agency or the public in trust and understand when the data comes out, not only is it trustworthy, they know how it is being used using modern technology.
▶ 1:20:53Chair Capito: I am looking to see who is coming in to see if we have another senator coming and it does not appear as though, so I really appreciate you being here. I know you understand the absence of some of our members is not an indication of lack of interest but I believe we have six other appropriations hearings going at the same time. I really appreciate you being here. Thank you very much. This will end our hearing.
▶ 1:21:22Chair Capito: I would like to thank my fellow committee members or thoughtful conversation and thank you to the acting secretary. Questions for the record will be due may 26. At the hearing record will remain open until then for members who wish to submit additional materials. The subcommittee stands in recess. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]