▶ 0:15:51>> Afternoon, committee comes to order. Our meeting to consider eight pieces of legislation, four Senate bills and their house companion bills. The land related measures it will benefit tribes, tribal members, and surrounding communities. S 236 and HR 681 would amend the long term leasing act to lease is up to 99 years for land in the tribe reservation and land held and trust for the Wampanoag tribe.
▶ 0:16:17This would allow both federally recognized tribes to lease trust lands to support tribal economic development. Second, as 1513 and HR 2388, the lower elwha klallam tribe project that will take on the Washington State, managed by the National Park Service into trust for the lower tribe.
▶ 0:16:43This legislation would complete the restoration of the ecosystem and fisheries and return stewardship of the river and cultural homelands to the tribe. Next on the agenda is my bill, S 2098, the south-central foundation land transfer act of 20 25 and its house companion bill, HR 3620, sponsored by Congressman baggage. It would convey approximately 3.372 acres of land.
▶ 0:17:11From the Department of Health and Human Services to the south-central foundation for use in connection with health and services programs. . It would allow south-central foundation to provide services through the clubhouse and enable SEF to finance capital improvements on the property to expand outpatient programming -- programming. And finally, S 2730 five and HR 2302, the Shingle Springs Band of Miwok Indians Land Transfer Act.
▶ 0:17:37It will take approximately 265 acres of BLM land into trust for the shingle Springs tribe. The tribe plans to use 180 five acres of one parcel to build much needed housing for tribal members while the remaining acreage will be actively managed to reduce wildfire risk and preserve open space.
▶ 0:17:55Each of these bills is important to the native communities that would benefit to their enactment, so I want to thank each of the sponsors for their work on the measures and look forward to continuing to work together to advance these bills and see them signed into law this Congress. I will now turn to Vice Chairman shots for his opening. >> thank you for convening these -- this meeting. The bill to advance tribal sovereignty and advancement through tribal decision-making over their own land, resources, and services aligned with the needs of the members.
▶ 0:18:25I urge my colleagues to advance each of these bills and work with the chairman to pass them out to the Senate and eventually to law. >> Thank you. We need six members physically present to report the legislation from the committee. Because we can presume a quorum to report legislation at the business meeting. I will ask members if they want to make a statement front of us.
▶ 0:18:56Before I do, I want to acknowledge Senator Armstrong. I think this is your first meeting of the Senate Union affairs committee. So we welcome you to the committee. We actually like working on these issues in front of us for the most part. I'm glad that you are part of our team and I look forward to working with you on these matters. Madam chair.
▶ 0:19:26>> Senator Cantwell. >> Thank you, Chair Murkowski and Vice Chair shots for hosting -- holding this important business meeting. I appreciate you continue to work together on these important policies. I appreciate as 1513, the lower Elwha Klallam tribe lands restoration act, being on the agenda. This is a very important part of our state in the lower Elwha Klallam tribe have played an important role in a variety of issues in the state of Washington.
▶ 0:19:55As 1513, as you said, would transfer 1000 acres of land outside the boundaries of the Olympic National Park to be held in a trust for the lower Elwha Klallam tribe. These lands were originally acquired by the Park service to remove two dams on the river and open up more than 70 miles of salmon habitat.
▶ 0:20:17After decades of advocacy and the completion of the Elwha ecosystem restoration project over 12 years ago, it was time to return this land to the Elwha Klallam Tribe. Taking this land into trust boosts the habitat restoration efforts led by the Elwha Klallam Tribe and federal agencies.
▶ 0:20:37It will help us in recovery of all five species of Pacific salmon and other native fish and preserve the tribe's cultural and national resources -- natural resources along the river. Passing the bill is an important action for the Elwha Klallam Tribe, and I look forward to getting it signed into legislation. Thank you to you and the chairman for including it on today's market. -- Mark up. >> we do have six members present.
▶ 0:21:08Are there any other -- before we move to take a vote, are there any other members that wish to make statements at this time? Okay. Let's move to the business portion of the meeting. We do have a quorum present. On the agenda are eight items numbered one through eight. You and your staff received copies of the agenda for this business meeting on Friday in accordance with committee rules.
▶ 0:21:32I would ask unanimous consent to take up and adopt items on the agenda numbered one through eight. Is there an objection? Hearing no objection, the question is on a going to agenda items one through eight on block. All those in favor say aye. Any opposed, say nah. Ayes appear to have it, it is agreed to. That concludes our business. I want to thank the members for getting that out of the way quickly.
▶ 0:21:59I am pleased to be able to move to the next phase of our meeting today, which is to welcome the Assistant Secretary for Indian affairs, Mr. Billy Kirkland, along with his Chief of Staff and Miss Jillian Curtis. We will conclude this portion of the meeting and move into our budget hearing.
▶ 0:22:47>> we are back on the record here. We have an oversight hearing this afternoon to examine the president's budget request for Indian affairs at the Department of into your and for the Indian health service for fiscal year 2027.
▶ 0:23:05Welcome to our witnesses today, Assistant Secretary for Indian affairs, assistant secretary, this is your first appearance before the committee. Since your confirmation. So welcome to you. We have Mr. Clayton Fulton, Chief of Staff for the Indian health service. He's assumed the duties of the IHS director. We appreciate that.
▶ 0:23:30Many of us would like to see the administration submit a formal nomination for director of Indian health service. No offense to you, we appreciate your business and your interest in helping us work through so much of the business. And we have miss Jillian Curtis, Director of the office of finance and accounting at the Indian health service as well.
▶ 0:23:55As I mentioned to Senator Armstrong, this is a committee that works on some good issues, and hopefully, issues that we feel good about advancing. We have a long bipartisan tradition of moving forward to tribal priorities.
▶ 0:24:17As we look to the budget in front of us, we have a saying around here that the executive proposes, the Congress disposes, and we are kind of in that same mode. As I look at the proposed FY 27 budget for Indian Affairs programs, I've got questions as to whether or not it will meet the well-documented needs across Indian country.
▶ 0:24:43We look forward to the proposed reduction of more than one third to the operation of Indian programs along with the elimination of programs ranging from welfare assistance to tribal community resilience, I look at that and I get concerned about it. I want to start the hearing this afternoon, assistant secretary, with my acknowledgment and genuine thanks for your willingness to come to Alaska a couple weeks back to hear
▶ 0:25:14directly from tribal leaders who were primarily from the -- Delta. You can't get further from Washington, D.C. to places, you heard voices during that two part field hearing about the disaster that had profoundly devastated these communities and the environment around them.
▶ 0:25:43And in the tribal listening session we had towards the end of the second day, I was particularly struck by words from Charlotte and, she said finally someone from out there, not just from Alaska, finally somebody is listening to us, we need this help.
▶ 0:26:05It is such a powerful reminder that these folks are just asking to be heard, these communities are asking to be heard, to be respected, to be partnered with as they confront some really challenging, some would say existential threats to their villages and their way of life.
▶ 0:26:27The federal support that you announced, assistant secretary, is an important first step in a longer, complicated process involving infrastructure hardening, predisaster mitigation recovery, and in some cases, relocation for affected villages. For these efforts to succeed, native communities must continue to have a seat at the table. Agencies must remain engaged and responsive and willing to listen directly to those who have been impacted.
▶ 0:26:58These communities are telling us what they need, our response ability is to hear them out to work alongside them to ensure they have support and resources they need for them and their families. Let's get to the proposed budget for IHS. Mr.
▶ 0:27:15Fulton, over the last year, we saw the importance of advanced appropriations for the IHS, prolonged government shutdown in 2025, I first introduced legislation to provide advanced appropriations for IHS in 2013. We ultimately enacted that policy some 10 years later through the interior appropriations bill. I'm pleased to see the FY 27 budget continue to the advanced appropriations.
▶ 0:27:42We've heard significant concerns from tribal health leaders, particularly in Alaska, about the ongoing IHS realignment of the structure and operations. At the same time, I'm aware of the increasing pressure on the IHS budget from contract support costs and the 105 lease costs, which all have to be balanced in the interior appropriations.
▶ 0:28:08It is hard for me, I'm not only the chairman on the authoring side, I'm the chairman on the appropriation side. I have figured out on both ends. We need to address this. To both of you, I look forward to hearing from you about how the proposed budget takes into account the priorities tribal leaders have raised across the country.
▶ 0:28:31And if I can take the privilege of the chair for a moment before I turn the microphone over to the vice chairman I want to recognize a woman on my committee, Sarah McGinnis. She's one of the professional staff members here. A very important member of my team. The last week before she goes off to Harvard Law school in the fall. I reminded her that there is a lot of time between now and the fall.
▶ 0:28:59Apparently she wants to have a little bit of a life before she does. I want to thank her publicly for her hard work and professionalism, her dedication to doing good policy work for Indian country. She came to the committee and 2023, a staff assistant. That is low on the totem pole as you can get. Leading us as a professional staff member. I think this is a reflection of both her talent and her teamwork.
▶ 0:29:27She has helped us develop a native children's commission draft. I'm proud of the work she and several others have put into it. She has played a key role in keeping us organized, keeping us moving on the right track. I just want to say thank you. You got a lot ahead of you. Thank you for what you have given to our community. -- our committee.
▶ 0:29:58Applause -- [applause] I will now turn to Vice Chairman Schatz for his statement. >> thank you, Chair Murkowski. We are here to discuss the budget request for fiscal year 2027. I'm sad to say it falls short of its trust and treaty obligations to American Indians, native Hawaiians, Alaska natives. How short is a little unusual.
▶ 0:30:25It is true to say a lot of times, the budget comes in short and we make the difference. This is a little different. The overall request for BIA is 1.8 billion dollars, $647 million decrease from fiscal 2026.
▶ 0:30:42While the request for the Indian health service increases funding and includes advanced appropriation, it cuts funding for key programs required by law and supported on a bipartisan basis such as sanitation facilities for tribal homes, special diabetes programs for Indians, and scholarships for health professionals.
▶ 0:31:02Across agencies, the proposed budget is under funding programs that carry out federal trust and treaty responsibilities to native communities impacting all 575 tribes and millions of individuals across Indian country. Here is with the budget actually does. It cuts BIE by 32% and BIA by 27%, over $1 billion total. It eliminates the widely successful TYA program.
▶ 0:31:28It cuts funding for tribal 638 contracts despite claiming to support these authorities. It guts tribal government and human services programs. It cuts funding for resource management and road maintenance. It completely defines tribal colleges and universities except for two directly operated by the BIE. It eliminates several behavioral health programs. Let me put a finer point on it.
▶ 0:31:54If enacted, it would mean these cuts mean less self-determination and self-governance. Fewer tribal police officers, and underfunded tribal courts pray less funding for job training, roads, housing, teachers, schools, compliance keeping native families together. Closure of tribal colleges and universities, continued gutting of BIA, BIE, an interior regional offices leaving tribes unable to find a federal employee that can provide help.
▶ 0:32:23That is on top of the impacts we have seen from this administration. Tribes and tribal organizations are feeling the effects of agency reorganization and reduction and force efforts, staffing levels across agencies including IHS are down. Tribes have lost contracts and relationships, they spend years forming as regional offices close.
▶ 0:32:44Tribes in native Hawaiian organizations are facing uncertainty in stability as the federal grants they rely upon our abruptly and often without any notice at all canceled, delayed, or even transferred. It is disappointing, but let's remember the administration proposed similar cuts and Congress rejected them on a bipartisan basis.
▶ 0:33:04As a member of this committee and the appropriations committee, and being good friends with the key appropriate or and chair of the relevant committee in the Appropriations Committee, we are going to continue to fight against these cuts and protect federal funding. Funding that the United States promised to provide through treaties, laws, and court decisions.
▶ 0:33:26We must demonstrate through our actions that the federal trust responsibility is not an inefficiency to be eliminated, but an enduring commitment that rises about partisan politics. Thank you. >> Thank you, Senator. We will turn to our witnesses. Assistant Secretary Kirkland, welcome to the committee. I appreciate you being here this afternoon. Once the assistant secretary has made his remarks, Mr.
▶ 0:33:53Clayton Fulton, the Chief of Staff or the Indian health services of the Department of Health and Human Services will provide his testimony. It is my understanding that you are providing backup. I appreciate that. Gentlemen, your full comments will be included as part of the record. We ask that you try and keep your remarks for the Q and A.
▶ 0:34:23Assistant Secretary Kirkland, please proceed. >> Does it backup for both of us? Thank you. Thanks again for the warm welcome, Chair Murkowski, vice Chairman Schatz. Appreciate you having us.
▶ 0:34:43My name is Billy Kirkland, enrolled member of the Navajo nation and currently serving as the assistant secretary forThank the assistant secretary forThanu the assistant secretary forThang the assistant secretary forThane the assistant secretary forThano testify on the president's fiscal year 2027 budget request. I appreciate the committee's continued leadership and long-standing commitment to upholding the federal government's trust and treaty response abilities to tribal nations, American Indians, and Alaska natives.
▶ 0:35:07The mission of Indian affairs is to uphold our trust and treaty responsibility while improving equality -- quality of life across the country. We do this by strengthening government to government relationships, supporting tribal self-determination, and ensuring tribes have the tools and flexibility to necessarily serve their communities. In support of our mission, the FY 27 budget request for Indian Affairs totals $2.8 billion across the Bureau.
▶ 0:35:34The Bureau of Indian affairs, Bureau of Indian education, and Bureau of trust funds administration prayed since taking this role, I've traveled across the country meeting with tribal leaders prayed one message remains -- one message I constantly hear is tribal nations want a federal partner that is responsive, accountable, and focused on results. Travel leaders have emphasized the need for fewer delays, less bureaucracy, and a government that upholds response ability not just in principle, but practice. This budget is intended to meet that expectation.
▶ 0:36:05Under President Trump leadership, interior is upholding this commitment to supporting Indian country by allocating funds for energy development, public safety, and infrastructure. This budget will increase the efficiency at the department, and speed up the approval processes for projects that improve the health of the country. A major focus of the request is supporting tribal self-determination and stewardship of trust resources.
▶ 0:36:27The budget includes investments in trust natural resource programs, that support tribal government, active forest management, earlier this month, the department improved the nation's first ever tribal resource agreement with the Southern Union tribe. An important milestone that increases tribal authority over energy development decisions on tribal land while reducing unnecessary burdens.
▶ 0:36:51This agreement demonstrates how tribal nations can exercise greater control of their own resources while hope -- helping advocate, advance reliable and domestic energy production. The budget continues to support tribal self-determination. We are requesting funding for the tribal priority allocations program who provide tribes with priorities based on their needs of their own communities.
▶ 0:37:12The budget also fully contracts -- funds contract support costs for payments, travel leases under section 105 L of the Indian self-determination and education assistance act. Another key priority in improving trust services. For far too long, the backlog in how native processes have delayed opportunities for families and limited the productive use of trust lands.
▶ 0:37:35This request includes resource to help modernize appropriate operations, reduce the backlog, and improve the trust management system so these systems will work better in the future. The safety and security of tribal communities is a core priority for the department. Earlier this month, the department launched a new Indian country violent crime task force to strengthen coordination among tribal, federal, and state law enforcement partners and combat violent crimes, drug trafficking, and crimes against children and tribal communities.
▶ 0:38:05The budget continues to support tribal law enforcement detention, and tribal core programs throughout the office of Justice services while also strengthening investigation of an public safety capacities across Indian country. The budget is about carrying out responsibilities in a more effective and accountable way. It focuses on strengthening tribal communities, improving service deliverables, supporting economic opportunities, and ensuring the federal government remains to nations.
▶ 0:38:35Thank you for the opportunity to being here, I look forward to your questions. >> Mr. Fulton. >> Thank you members of the committee. We appreciate the opportunity to come testify on the president's fiscal year budget health service. I want to think this committee for its long-standing support.
▶ 0:38:56Over the past several years, the investments made by Congress have increased IHS budget by 60% and strengthen health care across Indian country. That is progress that does matter. Our goal with the FY 2027 president's budget is to build on that foundation. It advances our mission to raise the health of Alaska native communities in the federal trust responsibility.
▶ 0:39:22By supporting a system of over 600 facilities, 41 urban Indian organizations, that serves nearly 3 million people. It is guided by three priorities. Strengthening the future of the Indian health service, improving health outcomes and supporting tribal self-governance. We are working to modernize the IHS system. Our current structure is not sustainable.
▶ 0:39:50As more programs become operated by tribes, the Indian health service must evolve to meet the realities of what the system demands of it. We are actively evaluating changes that streamline operations, that reduce administrative burdens, and improve accountability so that our providers can focus on patient care. The thing that really matters. The budget prioritizes direct health care services.
▶ 0:40:14It includes $9.1 billion in discretionary funding and continues to -- advance appropriations to ensure stability of care and shutdowns like the one the chair mentioned. We are investing in core elements needed to deliver the high-quality care, that includes $84 million to staff and operate facilities so they can operate as intended.
▶ 0:40:35That includes 265 million dollars for current services to keep pace with inflation, population growth, and increasing workforce demands. Additionally, there's $5 million for increased oversight of IHS oversight hospitals and health clinics to improve our assistant -- systemwide performance. These investments ensure that care remains consistent and accessible in every tribal community. We are continuing to modernize our health information system.
▶ 0:41:07The budget includes 280 $7 million for electronic health record monitoring station. This is a critical investment to improve the way care is coordinated, the efficiency, and long-term outcomes in our community. We are addressing the long-standing infrastructure needs.
▶ 0:41:24The budget includes an additional $5 million for health care facilities construction and while 36 of the 42 priority list projects from the 1993 list still aren't completed, six still remain. The secretary has committed a multiyear pledge of $1 billion in existing HHS resources to go to help us try to finish this 1993 priority construction list.
▶ 0:41:53Modern facilities are critical to delivering safe and high-quality care. Hospitals are our biggest patients, constantly working to keep them afloat. The budget strengthens tribal self-governance. By fully funding contract support costs and travel leases under section 105 L, these investments support tribal control as tribes continue to take on their health systems in a way that is unique to their community and their needs.
▶ 0:42:25The budget also includes initial funding for newly recognized tribes, including the tribe of North Carolina, and for statutory required funding for the Cherokee Indians. These resources ensure access to caries there as services continue to expand.
▶ 0:42:42In alignment with the secretary make America healthy pledge, it shows efforts by improving outcomes and reducing disparities through programs such as our produce pilot prescription program which aims to reduce food insecurity and improve dietary health and health outcomes. Recent investments have contributed to measurable success, including an increase of 2.3 years in the average life expectancy for average American Indians in 2022, with increases coming in 2023.
▶ 0:43:14I want to highlight the importance of the advance appropriations. The resource ensures care continues uninterrupted, despite things like our recent government shutdown. The FY 2027 budget builds on that success by requesting 5.6 billion dollars in advance appropriations for FY 28 to ensure that stable and predictable funding is in there for tribes as they continue to plan.
▶ 0:43:39The budget is about delivering on fundamental commitments and ensuring American Indians and Alaska communities have higher access to quality, reliable health care no matter where they are. >> Thank you. Let's begin with the round of questioning. Assistant Secretary, I'm going to begin with you.
▶ 0:43:57I really appreciated that you came to Alaska and you were participating in this failed hearing on the impact to our coastal communities and how they can be more resilient in the face of ongoing threats for erosion, flooding, permafrost, failing infrastructure.
▶ 0:44:25It is all complicated, long, and very costly. I just came from giving a speech on the floor before this hearing, part of the challenge I think we have is you don't really have a lead agency when it comes to how we deal with these disasters, particularly tribal relocation.
▶ 0:44:56BIA is not formally designated as the federal lead. But I think more and more, you are seeing tribes looking to it as a primary partner coordinating across these agencies in helping communities navigate. You kind of suggested at the hearing the BIA in Indian Affairs are not specifically the lead, but they are the lead agency. Almost by default.
▶ 0:45:24I want to just have you share having given some thoughts since that hearing to how the department and BIA are approaching this responsibility. What kind of a role you see BIA playing in perhaps coordinating long-term tribal resilience relocation efforts.
▶ 0:45:52I mentioned in my comments the announcement coming from your department on tribal community resilience, and that helps but more is needed.
▶ 0:46:07Can you kind of give me you know what date to connecting the dots on how we can address the challenges with lead federal agency and whether or not there is additional authorities or resources or agency we need to be looking into? >> Thank you very much, I was excited to come up and visit Alaska.
▶ 0:46:34I appreciate you and your staff for the hospitality and the ability to show a real situation out there. You talk about having your eyes open. I don't know -- unfortunately there is a Christmas Carol that will never have the same meaning. I don't know that you can explain that hearing talking about it.
▶ 0:47:00And you are right, there are a number of agencies involved and the process in Alaska. First and foremost, mentioning whether or not there is a relocation, it is like a straw poll. The folks I was able to speak to, I felt like the majority of those individuals don't want to relocate.
▶ 0:47:22I'm sure there are some first and foremost that there is going to be a lengthy, involved process that will take more trips, more talking, more intimate conversations, a tough conversation whether or not the individuals want to leave. In many cases, the only home their family has known for years on end. And the role that the BIA serves, we have a permanent location, a regional director.
▶ 0:47:52Not specifically in Bethel full-time, but is able to get to Bethel, able to meet with the folks in those areas and regions where folks might want to relocate. I think it only makes sense at Indian Affairs and within the BIA communicating with you and your staff, communicating with the committee as much as possible to figure out how we cannot just lead the effort currently moving forward, but build a team to ensure any type
▶ 0:48:26of relocation that takes place, any rebuilding that takes place, we make sure those families are not forgotten. It is easy to respond to an emergency at the first step, easy to know there was a tragedy. I think the tough part is sticking around and making sure the job gets finished. >> that is where I want to make sure we don't drop the ball, that we don't leave the impression that the disaster is now past and all is fine.
▶ 0:48:53You have displaced families that may be displaced for a period of time. You mentioned community consensus. They also need to be community driven. I think we also need to recognize even if you have people who want to go back, it may not be safe to go back. When you have land that feels like you are walking on a waterbed or a Jell-O pad, is what it was described as.
▶ 0:49:22Where the lands are so contaminated, it is just not safe for you and your families. These are big decisions, and I appreciate what you are sharing, which is a desire to work with us to work with impacted communities, recognizing it is not just two communities we are talking about. It is what happens when the next disaster strikes.
▶ 0:49:48But my colleague and friend here is still living with the trauma from the Lahaina fires. That fire may be over, those people may in fact be returning to a place that they barely even recognized. But the trauma from that does not leave them. I'm over my time. >> thank, chair. Thank you to the test of fires. I want to start with you, nice to meet you.
▶ 0:50:15Fiscal year 2024 was the last year that IHS hired more employees than it lost. During this administration, IHS has 1200 fewer employees than it did two years ago, that is a 9% reduction on top of a 30% vacancy rate.
▶ 0:50:39So the committee is a bit in the dark of the new hiring initiative, we have been trying to understand what you have been up to, and I don't mean this to be provocative. I just want to know what you are up to. I will just observe that. There are so many things you can do in recruiting techniques or processing procedures to increase the rate at which we hire people.
▶ 0:51:08So much of it is structural, pay, whether we have the money, housing, especially. I'm interested in what this is. As a more broad point, the bipartisan basis of this committee, we should know what it is and it should not be that we have to pull teeth to figure out what you are up to. We are supposed to do our oversight. We have a good tradition of being collaborative. This is your opportunity to tell us what you are up to. >> Perfect. I appreciate the opportunity to share.
▶ 0:51:41Staffing is probably the biggest challenge the Indian health service faces. Do we have the right people there to provide care? That is a challenge systemwide, at IHS direct facilities, and a lot of that will -- is a systematic and will not be solved overnight. Our goal is to make a deliberate push, to hire 3300 new people into the agency this fiscal year.
▶ 0:52:06While we have not hit 3300 yet, we are seeing several good signs that indicate a genuine interest to come and serve in tribal communities. We received over 10,000 unique applicants interested in over 300 jobs we currently have posted within the Indian health service. We have also seen -- we have 922 of those already interviewed, selected, and waiting to go through the process.
▶ 0:52:36With 86% -- nearly 80% acceptance rate. >> so you are telling me the data is encouraging, great. Get us that data. I don't know what the regular pace of updates would be reasonable without burdening you with a terrible reporting requirement. But it seems monthly, quarterly, wherever you are at. That is number one. I still have not heard -- you characterized this as a reorganization and it just seems like a hiring push. It is fine if it is that.
▶ 0:53:07But I want to figure out what you are doing differently and if we should be tracking that. >> Perfect. There are two different portions. One is hiring to get people on board today. Which has been enabled because previously efforts were spread across the agency, and done in localized area offices. Before I joined, that was unified under a single body. We were able to work through the process more systematically.
▶ 0:53:33I think that is why we are seeing significantly higher on board rates than what has been the historical approach because ofrealignment to make sure the agency is set up and structured in a way that is focused on the future. >> with permission of the chair, can we make a request to you to summarize all of this in writing ? Don't make us wait 120 days for a letter. It doesn't have to be perfect. We just need to know what you are up to.
▶ 0:54:03There's a lot of times we are adversarial, this is not one of them. We want to know what is going on over here. Is it going well? Do we have visibility into this? If you are meeting all of your marks, awesome, tell us. If not, we should know that, too. Thank you very much. >> we can do that, chair. >> Secretary Kirkland, good to see you.
▶ 0:54:27The secretary of the interior testified in the house that interior's budget cuts to tribal programs are cuts to programs that are ineffective and laden with overhead. What are we talking about? Which programs are ineffective and laden with overhead?
▶ 0:54:53>> thank you for the question, Senator. I appreciate it. And I appreciate the time to be here. >> It is a lateral move. >> Depends on the agency. >> I guess the state as well. Definitely lateral on your part.
▶ 0:55:17The budget overall, the core of our budget requests are getting back to the fundamentals of BIA, making sure we are providing services, being effective, making sure we are utilizing our workforce development and any programs. There is a number that you've got, I'm happy to follow-up with you and your staff making it more specific.
▶ 0:55:39Off of the top of my head, there are duplicate of programs, loan programs USDA offers, similar SBA -- I'm happy to dive as deep as you want. >> I love the idea of looking at programs that provide the same service and figuring out how they can work together, but what you are proposing is a nearly 30% cut and that is not like -- businesses, when they do cutting
▶ 0:56:10like that, they make a five-year plan, they account for the rate of inflation, they do it in a way where you can stay operational. These are agencies that were falling massively short off of this. One of the lessons it seems to be of no is it did not save any money.
▶ 0:56:34Violence to the administrative state might be cathartic, you have the place to work better, and it cannot be decapitating agencies that have political constituency that is powerful enough, so work with us. We are not sitting here defending a bureaucracy, we are defending these programs that provide services.
▶ 0:56:59If we are doing it in a stupid way, duplicative way, too much overhead, that is fine. Let's talk about that. 30% cut in saying the reason it is a 30% cut is because they are top-heavy. I'm going to need evidence for that before I stipulate to it. >> Senator Armstrong? >> Good afternoon. We appreciate you being here.
▶ 0:57:29This is a pretty dramatic change . I'm all for dramatic change to the degree there is a plan. I'm here asking questions to understand, because I think you have a lot of opportunity for improvement. I will start on the natural resources management piece of it. That is a very sizable cut in the space.
▶ 0:57:58I wonder about exactly what you are going after. Because we are sitting here today, high oil prices, a lot of these leases and a lot of these areas have a big opportunity for a pickup in activity. I want to make sure we understand we are not undermining the ability for the Indian nation and the tribes to be able to see the resort has developed on their lands.
▶ 0:58:25You mentioned in your opening comments about the Southern Butte tribe. May Assistant Secretary Kirkland, if you can pick up on what is being done in that space? >> Specifically, and referencing southern youths, in the body with -- over 20 years, there has been a system out there, a little tool that is a tribal energy resources agreement that gives tribes greater control of
▶ 0:58:56their own resources and ability to manage, their ability to negotiate whether it is leasing or negotiating with providers and not having to work through us. We were able to sign the first agreement giving them more control over their energy production. That is something that we want to do more of, we also want to do more efficiency in general.
▶ 0:59:26That is something we talk about where your, workforce efficiencies. The BIA, a lot of dedicated people, a lot of folks have been there for a long time. The management and organization structures is the same as it was in the 1970's. You do have a system where in some instances, for every one manager, you have one supervisor. Essentially a supervising manager, one person.
▶ 0:59:58A lot of look needs to be taken, a lot of things need to be worked out. I've never had the pleasure, Senator, but congratulations on your appointment.
▶ 1:00:11I'm happy to share my conflict -- with you, if -- I know that multiple Senators on the committee have reached out directly, either to stop for me personally and find -- I would like to think and fairly responsive, and I'm happy to continue any conversation on any point you have, or questions you want to learn about more topics you are interested in.
▶ 1:00:37>> You are expanding the ability for the management, stuff that used to be done by BIA, and it is allowing you to reduce organizational costs? >> Yes sir. Not just costs, but efficiencies. >> I'm familiar with that effort, and I think that is a fantastic idea. Is it being spread rapidly to other tribes as well? >> We are working on it.
▶ 1:01:06We are trying to figure out what took so long in the first place, why it took 20 plus years to have these resource agreements signed and enacted. The best form of advertisement, everyone thinks being a political setting, his television. You see the flashy campaign commercials or whatever it may be. But the best form of advertising is mouth-to-mouth, person-to-person, in this case, tribe to tribe.
▶ 1:01:35And they are going door to door telling people and other tribes about how easy we were to work with, how much we helped, and they are evangelists of this now. They want other tribes to come into this and they have been our biggest champions, and we have the number of tribes since the signing two weeks ago that they are interested in working on joining the process. >> That is great news.
▶ 1:02:06Certainly Oklahoma has very sophisticated tribes that are very capable of managing their own affairs in that regard. That is a great example of opportunities of reduced costs. Thank you, I yield my time. >> Well, as an appointed senator from you landed on the moment. We are also working on that. Senator Smith. >> Thank you to the chair and the vice chair. Welcome to our panelists today.
▶ 1:02:35Vice Chair, I would like to start by recognizing chair to Schaub of the gram porridge band of Lake Superior, who is in the audience today. Thank you, Mr. chair for joining us. I will have many questions, which I will submit for the record regarding the president's budget. I want to associate myself with the Vice Chair's remarks and questions on what is going on and what the plans are.
▶ 1:03:00But today I'm going to focus my questions to the assistant secretary this afternoon. Great to see you again. Assistant Secretary Kirkland, your role is responsible for supporting the secretary of the interior and fulfilling this country's trust responsibilities to federally recognized Indian tribes and maintaining those government to government relationships between the federal government and Indian tribes on behalf of the Department of Interior. That is correct, right?
▶ 1:03:32>> Yes, Senator. >> Thank you. Do you believe the department is obligated to consult with tribal nations prior to taking actions that affect those treaty rights? >> Yes, Senator. >> Thank you. I'm not trying to trick you or catch you in anyway. >> I apologize, I was making sure the talk button was on. >> I just wanted to make sure.
▶ 1:03:58You may know that in January of this year, the department of the interior took action to overturn some critical protections for the pristine boundary Waters in northeastern Minnesota. These protections were put in place because the area is vital to the health and valleys of assistant space lives of tribal nations, particularly the 1854 treaty tribes.
▶ 1:04:25And while Reisman omen is susceptible to impacts of mining. That is why these protections were put in place. Then earlier this year, the department issued a statement of administration policy recommending the passage of House joint resolution 140.
▶ 1:04:55Relating specifically to this moratorium on mining and the boundary waters. Were you aware of that? Does it sound familiar at all? >> Thank you, no, I was not reached out by any tribe. >> Or the department? The department did not reach out to you? >> I'm not aware of any tribe or the department either.
▶ 1:05:17>> What I'm trying to understand is this statement of administration policy would directly affect treaty rights. And therefore, it seems to me according to the law that tribal consultation would be required. This is how it unfolded.
▶ 1:05:40There was this statement of administration of -- administrative policy, Congress passed a resolution overturning the moratorium, it was unprecedented use of the Congressional review process, I might add, a great concern to many on both sides of the aisle. Then you have the department of the interior proceeding.
▶ 1:06:01My question is are you aware of any formal consultation that has happened as the Department of the Interior has taken the steps that has a direct impact on the treaty rights of tribes in this territory? >> I was not reached out to buy the tribe for any consultation processes or have knowledge of them or any tribe making a request for that.
▶ 1:06:23>> Is it your view that the federal government only needs to do former clients -- formal consultation of the tribe specifically reaches out to do the Department of Interior? >> It is my view that we want to take the consultation process as seriously as possible. When a tribe reaches out about an issue that they have or want to follow up on that and make sure the due diligence.
▶ 1:06:45>> But do you see you have a responsibility of the administration, the department as taking an action that affects treaty rights, don't you agree that the department has a responsibility to do consultation? That is not just a reactive stance, it is the responsibility to make sure that happens? >> I am happy to look into that and find more information on that.
▶ 1:07:11I encourage you to reach out as well when you feel there is a consultation that needs to be looked into or hasn't happened or needs to be enacted. >> It is my view and I think this is backed up by the law, certainly the view by an Indian country that the Trump Administration, the department of the interior, did not do the consultation required, and in fact, disrespected the government to government responsibility that is owed to these tribes and as a result,
▶ 1:07:42this has happened without any consultation today. You can help fix this by committing to me that you will help make sure these federal agencies involved in these leases as this process go forward, it will be a lengthy and expensive process, help make sure as the process proceeds, there will be appropriate tribal consultation? >> Yes, we will commit to looking to follow the law on all aspects of the relationship including consultations.
▶ 1:08:13>> I will follow-up with you on this. I look forward to doing all of the work that I can to those consultation response abilities. I find it sort of stunning to hear you say that you were waiting for a phone call from somebody to be reminded that the department has a legal responsibility to do consultation. Thank you, Madam chair. >> Senator Cortez Masto.
▶ 1:08:41>> Thank you for being here, not that you really had a choice, but thank you. Assistant Secretary Kirkland, I will start with you. I understand there are reductions of about 500 staff, is it correct? >> Senator, I could not give you the exact number of reductions.
▶ 1:09:06I can tell you we have currently and enacted and approved the hiring of 400 staffers in critical positions that were currently advertising USA jobs and working to fill those hourly facing critical roles. >> What are the critical roles, or some of them? >> Some from law enforcement officers, to regional offices, Superintendent -- >> Would you be willing to give us a breakdown? That would be helpful.
▶ 1:09:36If the budget is not cutting staff, which doesn't sound like it should be if you are hiring 400, but I would like to know. And here's why. I'm hearing not just from my tribes in Nevada, but from law enforcement as well, that BIA officers are far and few in between. They are just understaffed. And I know some of these officers.
▶ 1:09:57They want to do right, but they are understaffed in the way it is broken down to regions, it is very hard to get a response into Nevada. If you have been to Nevada, I don't know if you have been to our rural areas, but if you have, you will understand many of our rural areas were tribe lives, mainly desert, not a lot of interconnectivity. You can drive for hours before you see somebody.
▶ 1:10:23So I need a response time that is immediate, especially if there is tribal crime happening, to keep our communities safe. I want the commitment if you're willing to help address the issue, particularly when it pertains to Nevada with the lack of BIA officers had more staffing necessary for our law enforcement in Nevada and in that region. Would you be committed to provide those documents or information?
▶ 1:10:49>> He Senator, unfortunately it is also -- not a problem unique to Nevada specifically. We are working on it. >> I'm from Nevada. >> I know, that is -- >> That is why I'm getting commitment. I want to see what you're are doing from Nevada. I've been hearing about this as long as I have lived there. We have to address it. If we can address it in Nevada, we probably would be able to address it in other places. >> Not only am I happy to get you the information request.
▶ 1:11:16I know there is a lot of -- a lot of you are very busy here with the votes, and a lot of times when we are back in the state or district, we will be here all the time. >> So will I, I will be waiting for your call. I'm going to move on because I only have so much time. During your nomination hearing last year, I asked about the detention funding issue facing tribes in Nevada with the 638 contracts.
▶ 1:11:43Quite honestly at that time, I think the chairman and the ranking member are very aware of this. They had the rug pulled out from under them when their regional BIA office suddenly reinterpreted their contracts and was going to force them to pay for detention services for the pretrial detainees. And this is why I asked you at your hearing, your nomination hearing, if you would promise to work with me to address this issue and ensure open lines of communication are open.
▶ 1:12:15I'm still hearing from our law enforcement tribes that it is an issue for them and has not been addressed. Can you give me an update on this issue? >> I half-staff behind me making a note of that. As soon as we are out of here, we will give you an update. >> I appreciate that. As part of this discussion, and maybe it is time we reevaluate the funding levels tribes with 638 law enforcement contracts are entitled to, given population growth, price increases, and other costs.
▶ 1:12:45I would be interested in addressing that. If you want to make a time, come to my office and talk about all of the above, I will make myself available. Thank you. >> Thank you, Senator. Senator Daines. >> Chair Murkowski, thank you. Assistant Secretary Kirkland, thank you for your testimony earlier. Going back to your confirmation hearing, we discussed Montana's final Indian water settlement.
▶ 1:13:16The northern Montana water security act. You mentioned memories of hauling water across the Navajo nation with your grandmother. You understand the challenges and necessity securing water rights and access in Indian country. He also committed to working with Congress to ensure the federal government upholds its trust in the applications, which includes protecting water rights . Want to make sure we hold each other accountable to that.
▶ 1:13:46During President Trump's first term, his support was instrumental in enacting the Montana water rights protection act to settle the Confederate -- tribes water claims. These are century long fights, as you well know. Some of the toughest fights are water fights. And some of the most interesting fights gets into treaty rights as well.
▶ 1:14:14They recently reached a major milestone. This is going back to the compact the Trump Administration got done that the president signed. We finally got the Montana water core final order approving that compact last week. It is a big win for farmers, ranchers, the tribe, and the federal government and for President Trump.
▶ 1:14:41This action by Congress and the Court now brings certainty to all water users in the region. There's a lot of false information spread up in that part of the state. That is not true. And we are grateful working with President Trump to get this signed, and the court just affirmed it in Montana again last week. Have we not gotten this done? GOTTEN THIS DONE, THE ALTERNATIVE WAS UNTHINKABLE.
▶ 1:15:11Without a settlement, the majority of the water rights claims in montana would have been litigated over several decades, and that is thousands of water rights claims. As we know, the courts are increasingly sympathetic to treaty rights that often predate statehood. Nontribal water users would have faced unprecedented uncertainty and possibly seem diminished access and have cost the federal government an untold amount of money.
▶ 1:15:41The fort belknap alongside the many farmers and ranchers who live alongside come up want to bring the same certainty to the region. It is the last to be settled in montana history. Assistant secretary kirkland, do you support the idea of settling rather than litigating indian water rights claims? >> the department supports the idea of settling in any and all water settlement claims that we can.
▶ 1:16:11>> we have seen, if we don't settle, obviously a lot of lawyers were really nice suits. There are a lot of legal fees. Uncertainty and losing those water rights if the litigation proceeds. The risk of losing water rights for an economy in a place like montana is very real and significant. And there is a clear blueprint to getting this done.
▶ 1:16:40I want to work with the trump administration to build off these past models of success. None of these are ever easy. I experienced that myself, trump 45. And to move forward and enact the northern montana water security act. One thing that is sometimes lost in translation here in washington, in a place that gets 41 inches of rain every year -- I did not realize what rain was.
▶ 1:17:09I know senator murkowski sees a lot of alaska. I envy her precipitation. They get more rain here than in seattle by a small amount. Where we are battling in this last water rights claim, this last tribal rights, is an area of our state that gets 12 to 15 inches of rain a year. It is a semi arid environment, and that is why water is so critical to keep things going.
▶ 1:17:38My colleague from oklahoma -- they know what it is to live in a state without a lot of rain. Montana similarly does not get a lot of rain, most of it. Time is of the essence on the issue. Can we work together to get this done this year?
▶ 1:17:56Mr. Kirkland: I know you spoke to secretary burnham on this as well. I will continue to work with you and the committee on settling all water rights.
▶ 1:18:07Sen. Daines: We are going to name a town in montana after you if this gets done. We will give you a street. We will give you a post office if you need it. This is about water security for tribal and nontribal water users. It is for infrastructure for montana agriculture and certainty for future generations of montanans. These are legacy kind of decisions we can make and move forward and settle it, and not put this on the backs of our children and grandchildren.
▶ 1:18:37Sen. Daines: The bill I have ensures the water availability and upholds the federal government's trust responsibility. It is past time to get this done. Thank you for your comments.
▶ 1:18:49Chair Murkowski: Senator lujan? 's evolution -- Sen. lujan: I your hearing I was critical that the trump administration proposed zero dollars for the navajo water supply project. Do you recall that? >> yes, senator.
▶ 1:19:12Sen. Lujan: After that, I worked with my colleagues, and I want to thank everyone of my colleagues and the staff. Since the administration did not provide any dollars, we were able to work. We got $55 million in federally directed spending for the project. We worked to raise the cap to access an additional $100 million. And as you know and I shared with you, failure to do so would have meant the first indian water rights settlement to fail.
▶ 1:19:42Sen. Lujan: And I know what everyone else knows. Once there is a first, there will be a second. Do you know how much money was proposed in president trump's budget for the navajo gallup water supply project for fy 2027? >> senator, I am happy to -- I know that my colleague scott cameron came and spoke to you as well and you guys talked about --
▶ 1:20:07Sen. Lujan: It is a million dollars. >> I'm here to talk about indian affairs in the budget request.
▶ 1:20:15Sen. Lujan: Can you advise the secretary or the president when it comes to your work and the priorities that you have for tribes across the country? >> senator, I give the president and the secretary advice on issues affecting the native communities.
▶ 1:20:33Sen. Lujan: Mr. secretary, do water settlements affect native communities? >> yes.
▶ 1:20:39Sen. Lujan: We are here to talk about water settlements. You just had a conversation with my colleague from montana. >> that the budget, we will look into -- you mentioned it, senator. You said that if we let one go --
▶ 1:20:52Sen. Lujan: Reclaiming my time. Chair, I would like to submit the budget into the record. There are zero dollars for this budget. I am going to come visit with you in your office. I'm going to visit with your staff in your office. I'm going to go visit with the chairman. Everyone that we can. The president did not put any money in. Mr. secretary, please. For this water settlement in montana, let's get the money for it. Let's get it done.
▶ 1:21:23Sen. Lujan: This is something we all agree on. Democrats and republicans across the country. Mr. secretary, how many times have you sat with the working group on indian water right settlements that you are a member of? >> I met with the group a number of times as well as multiple tribes on specific water settlements and water rights.
▶ 1:21:44Sen. Lujan: I would like to also appreciate and work with you to make sure that we fully fund the ball I water settlement as well. They have received $100,000 so far.
▶ 1:21:58Sen. Lujan: I hope we do not see water settlements fail and can work together to get the technical support required. Mr. fulton, I want to thank you. You recently visited new mexico. There is a great picture of you here, visiting with some of the leadership of the navajo nation, the department of health. There are two issues I want to raise. One, as you know, one of the elevators is not working over that way.
▶ 1:22:26Sen. Lujan: I received a response from someone on your staff on monday that said patient safety is a priority and that would work on this as quickly as possible. But they highlighted in the email that one elevator is not sufficient to fully support patient care needs in the building. I would like a full briefing for this committee, for myself -- timeline, when that is going to be done, if it is about patient safety, things of that nature.
▶ 1:22:51Sen. Lujan: And second, if I could also ask for a timely briefing on the timeline associated with the gallup indian medical center. As you are aware, the project is not on this list of projects this year. This is the second time under this administration that the projects have jumped over. If I am not mistaken, the coverage in the meeting was all positive and said this was a priority project, that it would not be skipped again.
▶ 1:23:21Sen. Lujan: If we can get some information where it is on the list, how we can get this done and things of that nature, I would appreciate it. I look forward to that. Mr. kirkland, I was told that in addition to sitting on the working group, you oversee the bureau of indian affairs indian affairs trust funds administration, serving hundreds of federally recognized tribes across the country.
▶ 1:23:48Sen. Lujan: That your responsibilities as assistant secretary of indian affairs addition to that -- secretary burnham also nominated you to serve as associate commissioner of the national indian gaming commission. Is that correct?
▶ 1:23:59Mr. Kirkland: I have been nominated to serve as vice associate.
▶ 1:24:03Sen. Lujan: This has its distinct statutory mandate, and Dr. -- docket of decisions affecting tribal sovereignty. Is it fair to say they are both full-time jobs?
▶ 1:24:17Mr. Kirkland: It is fair to say we had an unprecedented resignation that has put a lot of tribes and tribal economies at risk, and we want to make sure that gap is as fully filled as possible and want to make sure the duties the committee is responsible for take place. We are going to look to hire and fill those vacancies as soon as possible. In the meantime, we will ensure that things like contracts can be put in place and other operations.
▶ 1:24:48Sen. Lujan: Mr. secretary, madam chair, what I am asking is if you can get a letter to this committee soon. Not 120 days. Telling us how you are going to do both jobs, and how the responsibilities you have as deputy secretary of indian affairs are not going to fall to the side.
▶ 1:25:08Sen. Lujan: One of the concerns I have is on one side your responsibilities are to advocate for the tribes, and on the other hand, this administration has taken a different position on prediction markets. The tribes have been suing, man. They are at odds. I don't know how you are going to do it. I look forward to reading about it and having certain that -- certainty that your primary job -- you are going to live up to those trust responsibilities. I very much look forward to learning about this.
▶ 1:25:40Chair Murkowski: Thank you, senator. And know that on the water settlements, not only do I hear you, we have had good conversation. And you are right. Whether it is the water settlement senator daines is concerned about or coming out of your state of new mexico, we have got to -- we have got to address them. Lots of work goes into getting to the settlement.
▶ 1:26:05Chair Murkowski: A settlement is nothing more than a piece of paper if we are not actually working to put those dollars in it. Know that we will be in contact there. We will go into a second round here. Hopefully not too many more. Assistant secretary, you mentioned probate and the effort that the administration is doing to modernize what we can do within the probate accounts to help reduce the backlog.
▶ 1:26:38Chair Murkowski: I have talked to you about it. I've talked to secretary burnham about it. Everybody is giving their commitment. I know we are moving forward with this effort. My concern is that we are hearing that all this is taking place, but I am knots seeing that we have actually done anything yet to help reduce that backlog, and to actually get
▶ 1:27:09Chair Murkowski: These probate's completed for these families. I would just ask for an accounting from you and your team about just how you anticipate this backlog to be addressed. You know what you are trying to do with the modernization. You know how long it is going to take to get these systems in place.
▶ 1:27:35Chair Murkowski: Recognizing the 47,000 cases that are pending across the country, can you -- I want an estimate as to how long you are anticipating it is going to be to catch up with the backlog, so that as a committee we can be monitoring this. Because right now, what I am getting is an assurance that "don't worry, we are working to update our systems.
▶ 1:28:01Chair Murkowski: But what is worrying me is the same constituents are coming to me and saying we have heard that, but we still don't know where we are in our case. I'm told we are going to have this dashboard type of approach where people can check in and follow their cases. That is good, but can you give us more metrics in terms of when people can expect this, and then to actually see their respective cases?
▶ 1:28:30Mr. Kirkland: Thank you for the question, senator, and you are right to be concerned. You have been on the committee for a while and this is not a new problem. I'm sure you have heard time and time again people say we have got this under control. Until you actually see numbers moving, you are right to be concerned. We are concerned. That is why it was made a priority.
▶ 1:28:55Mr. Kirkland: Unfortunately, to be able to actually work at chopping the problem down one at a time, we had to figure out how in-depth the problem was. That took a well for us to get our hands on. A couple of years ago in front of this committee, indian affairs said it was going to take 60 plus million dollars and five to seven years to get their hands wrapped around the problem and the backlog altogether. We are in the steps and the process of understanding the full scope of the problem by the end of july.
▶ 1:29:23Mr. Kirkland: We are going to be able to know what cases are where are in the process, what families may be only have one document that is missing from their probate case in order to close it. You mention 47,000 cases that are backed up, which is a very high number.
▶ 1:29:42Mr. Kirkland: Even more astounding is that is upward of $770 million of american money, of alaskan natives and native americans, money they could have that they need today, whether that is to buy a home or invest in their children's education. You mentioned you are still talking to people having issues I never thought was possible. I actually met individuals who were working on waiting for probate's of their dead family members who were still waiting.
▶ 1:30:13Mr. Kirkland: It is a generational problem. For the first time ever, it is almost unconscionable that in an age, in a system where you can order the committee dinner on an app, these individuals cannot track their probate cases. Not only will probate cases be able to be tracked, they will be able to submit these probate cases online or via their phone. My first trip to alaska was last month.
▶ 1:30:42Chair Murkowski: It is one thing to be able to submit them, but if it is not going anywhere -- that has been the problem. You can submit them and it goes into that dark folder.
▶ 1:30:52Mr. Kirkland: A paper copy is still antiquated, and that is how it is being tracked. We have got a system where we might have a regional office or an agency and they are going through a filing system to find out what is there.
▶ 1:31:08Mr. Kirkland: By the end of july, through the new technology, through ai, through the folks that are being trained on the processes right now, they are going to be able to look in alaska and say let's reach out to senator murkowski's team and let them know of those 7000 probate cases that are backlog, 5000 of them are missing one document. Let's work with those individuals in the state to ensure that the one document --
▶ 1:31:34Chair Murkowski: I'm going to interrupt because my time is expired and I want to ask others if they have any questions. But it is one thing to have assurances that a system is coming online.
▶ 1:31:49Chair Murkowski: But if you are the family who has lost an elder and the family home was in his name and there is no -- the spouse has deceased and the property goes into probate -- the family members have to vacate that home. That family home is padlocked. The windows are boarded shut.
▶ 1:32:13Chair Murkowski: And in villages where you have no housing, you have perfectly good housing that is then left to the elements. Pipes freeze. Things get -- you can lose your homes. It is more than just the money. It is losing the opportunity to have a family home.
▶ 1:32:37Chair Murkowski: I have been pressing on this and raising it with every administration official so that it is reinforced that it is not just the high tech world. We want to know that these promises of modernization are coming. Right now, nobody has seen the promise materialize. The family now has the keys to their home again.
▶ 1:33:03Chair Murkowski: The family now has a few dollars that they are able to pay off something that they have been waiting for. So know that this continues to be a very, very keen of priority of mine and of many on the full committee here. I'm going to turn to senator hoeven, and then I will have a couple more questions. I have not directed anything to you yet, Mr. fulton. You are not off the hook yet.
▶ 1:33:33Chair Murkowski: All right. I will let him look at his notes here. Let me ask you about sanitation funding cuts. The proposal is about $93 million below the fy 26 enacted. And I get the comments that unobligated infrastructure and jobs act funding remains available.
▶ 1:33:58Chair Murkowski: But as one who was instrumental in those funds, that funding was intended to supplement base funding, not to replace it. So I know you are working hard. You are getting sanitation grants out. Let me tell you, the folks were super excited about the announcements in teller. They love the fact that you were out there.
▶ 1:34:27Chair Murkowski: This is a transformation and I think you know it. But you also know there is huge unmet need here. It is still troubling when I go out to so many of these villages and we are talking about -- we are talking about communities that are still relying on honey buckets, hall wagons, and this again is public safety, public
▶ 1:34:58Chair Murkowski: Health, when you don't have clean water and clean up wastewater systems. So just give me the rationale. Maybe you hate it and you really can't give me a good reason for why you would reduce base funding.
▶ 1:35:16Chair Murkowski: But I also need to know how you are going to continue making good progress on unmet sanitation needs once the funding is gone. There is a cliff here. Believe me. I know all about the cliff. If you are going to use it to help get you through this funding cycle, what do you do next year when we don't have that?
▶ 1:35:44Chair Murkowski: I cannot go back to communities and say we were making some progress. Teller got money. But the rest of you folks, that funding pipeline is not there. Can you speak to the sanitation funding? >> you hit on a great point. There are sanitation facility needs across indian country that are definitely challenging. It comes down to the balancing act of balancing a tight budgetary environment, how we prioritize.
▶ 1:36:11Chair Murkowski: This was a prime opportunity to really invest in things that would revolutionize direct patient care. Our priority at this time Sen.
▶ 1:36:21Murkowski: Let me challenge you on that. Direct patient care. I am sick and you are going to take care of me. Keep me from getting sick by making sure that I have sanitary conditions in my village, that I am able to wash my hands, bathe my kids. It is kind of the basic thing. I get what you are saying. You want to take care of people who get sick.
▶ 1:36:50Murkowski: I think it is also a basic human need that we have clean water. >> there are definitely significant challenges. We continue to work on our 2000 plus water sanitation projects we have under iha currently, each includes $1.9 billion that has gone to alaska.
▶ 1:37:13Murkowski: We know this is an issue that is important to members of this committee, and we are happy to provide any technical assistance we can with regards to this topic.
▶ 1:37:22Sen. Murkowski: I think we want more than technical assistance. As I speak of this issue, my colleague from new mexico has left the committee here this afternoon, but I hear that in many of the reservations, they are faced with the same challenges that we may have when it comes to running water and clean basic water and wastewater
▶ 1:37:52Sen. Murkowski: Issues. I hear you saying you made priorities. I know you have got to defend what is put in front of you. But know that from this senator's perspective, I don't think that we can go backwards. I don't think that we should be looking to the one time funding opportunities that we put into place as what is going to carry us over.
▶ 1:38:24Sen. Murkowski: Those were designed to supplement because we were in such a whole that we needed to put billions of dollars toward it. We have made good headway. But we cannot use that as the excuse not to continue a robust base funding for something as basic as clean water and wastewater. Ok. You are now teed up. >> thank you, madam chairman.
▶ 1:38:57Sen. Murkowski: In 2020, I worked with chairwoman murkowski and others, and we put in place the funding for the advanced trading center -- training center for bia law enforcement officers. Throughout indian country, we are not filling our bia law enforcement positions.
▶ 1:39:21Sen. Murkowski: In 2021, the advanced training center was providing training to over 3000 law enforcement personnel on an annual basis. For this year, we secured $2 million to support improving infrastructure. Most recently -- actually, I am working on getting $3 million this year.
▶ 1:39:51Sen. Murkowski: It was $2 million last year. Also this month, secretary burgum signed a secretarial order recommending additional basic training options for police and corrections officers at the indian police academy's training center at camp crafton.
▶ 1:40:11Sen. Murkowski: Please provide me with an update on how the department plans to use these new funds, as well as that executive order to support the operations, physical infrastructure at camp grafton, and implement the basic training.
▶ 1:40:26Mr. Kirkland: Sunder, as you are well aware, and teacher, new mexico -- antija, new mexico, is a long way away from your neck of the woods. It is a long way from itself. It is tough often for officers and folks that want to be bia law enforcement officers to get there, to be away from the family. We are excited by the progress.
▶ 1:40:51Mr. Kirkland: As a matter of fact, just recently, last month, I believe, we were able to hold the first graduation of our correction officers that are going to be going to travel -- tribal communities. In late june, early july, we will be holding the first police officers -- the tribal police officers training.
▶ 1:41:14Mr. Kirkland: We will have a number of officers that are going to be going to the office of justice services within the bia or will go to tribal law enforcement throughout indian country to serve and protect indian country. That graduation will be in september. Foremost, we are looking to make sure it is utilized to help train officers and do it in a way that we can have those officers trained at their homes, making it easy for states to get the law enforcement they need.
▶ 1:41:44Mr. Kirkland: >> so we will get more officers and continue to train them while they are doing the job, but get these slots filled across the country where the need is so bad.
▶ 1:41:55Mr. Kirkland: We will continue to work on that truck. >> are there specific facilities issues you want to talk about?
▶ 1:42:04Mr. Kirkland: We're going to work on everything. We want the best officers that can get to their communities. >> your work on it fills a vital need in terms of security for reservations across the country. And then also, I work with sec. Cortez masto, and we passed the badges act to try to expedite our ability to get people into a whole variety of law enforcement offices in indian country. Across this country.
▶ 1:42:33Mr. Kirkland: This helps every tribe across the country in terms of safety, security, and law enforcement. It has not passed the house yet. Any thoughts that you can offer in terms of support maybe, provided by you and others, that would help us advance this through the house so we get it in place?
▶ 1:42:51Mr. Kirkland: First I would like to thank you for your work on the badge act. Any support on legislation that helps better protect and serve indian country, but also that makes it easier to hire tribal police officers. >> so again, it is about getting law enforcement officials in these slots. Vitally important.
▶ 1:43:18Mr. Kirkland: The last thing I want to ask you about is there is a road on spirit lake reservation. It is called the four winds high school road. It is to the tribal school, which by the way is a real power in basketball. They are unbelievable. But it is not eligible for bia road maintenance because it has not been added to the bia road inventory.
▶ 1:43:47Mr. Kirkland: How do you plan to consult with spirit lake tribe to get this thing on the inventory and make sure that those young people can get to that school, not only for their studies but for those basketball players, so they can get back and forth to all the tournaments and continue to be successful?
▶ 1:44:06Mr. Kirkland: How far did they get in the state tournament? >> they did not win it this year, but they do fairly regularly and they are always good. Cox I know currently we manage and oversee about 30,000 miles of road and it is a problem everywhere that the road maintenance -- a lot of tribal schools and tribal communities do not necessarily have snow days. They have muddy road days, days when buses cannot get down the roads.
▶ 1:44:35Mr. Kirkland: I know this is a priority for you and for tribal communities across the country. We are happy to work with yourself and the tribe to get this road on the list. Ask I know it is challenging with all these roads. This is for high school kids and their safety. Thank you. Ok.
▶ 1:44:55Mr. Kirkland: It looks to me like there is no one else to ask any questions, so I think we will go ahead and gavel out, in less -- is there anything else the three of you want to report on the record as far as any questions for the committee, or testimony today? >> thank you, senator.
▶ 1:45:16Mr. Kirkland: One thing I would like to try a little clarity on -- with regards to a few of the programs prescribed as being cut -- specifically, our scholarships, health professions, etc. -- there are a few programs that show decreases in the budget. However, those were not intended as policy level decisions. When the budget was put together in december in the fall, there had not yet been an fy 226 budget. We proposed increases for several of those programs.
▶ 1:45:45Mr. Kirkland: But congress beat us to the punch and funded them more than what we had planned. That was one aspect that was brought up that I think would be useful for the community. Thank you for your long-standing support. >> I would like to echo also, thank you for your time. Thank you for the committee staff's work. I know you guys put on -- put in a lot of hours to make your boss is good up here with questions and research. >> very good.
▶ 1:46:16Mr. Kirkland: Then members may also submit follow-up written questions for the record, and the hearing record will be open for two weeks. Again, thanks to all the witnesses. We appreciate you being here and we are adjourned.