▶ 0:21:53Chair Kennedy: Ok, folks. Hearing -- this hearing will come toward her. I'm thinking about what I'm going to say because I don't know. I've got a lot on my mind. I'm going to ask the ranking member who is generally better organized.
▶ 0:22:18Sen. Murray: Thank you.
▶ 0:22:22Chair Kennedy: The vice chairman of the entire committee to hold fort.
▶ 0:22:25Sen. Murray: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman, and thank you to all of our witnesses. You do critical work to support our economies and families back home. It puts our communities and serious change or from threats like droughts and floods and power outages and a lot more.
▶ 0:22:49Sen. Murray: Looking at the howard hanson dam last year during historic flooding it stored record amounts of water stocking about five feet of flooding in auburn. When the green river levee breached, the core was there to reduce the down flows within hours and deployed personnel and resources alongside our king county crews and manage the careful return to normal operations.
▶ 0:23:20Sen. Murray: That's exactly the kind of rapid, coordinated, technical response that only the corps can provide, but trump wants to cut funding in the budget and zero out funding for work on howard hansen. Fortunately in our last funding bill chair kennedy and I worked to reject those cuts and others in our last funding bill and made strong investments in the army corps and the bureau of reclamation. Howard hansen got the work to move forward.
▶ 0:23:49Sen. Murray: As to the yakima basin integrated plant which is crucial for our farmers and communities in my state. We've got a lot more to do on those projects in others and unfortunately we now have more cuts to reject because this budget shows trump didn't learn his lesson, he has proposed reckless cuts also he can blow and I are half trillion dollars on war.
▶ 0:24:13Sen. Murray: It would/the bureau of rec by a fifth and considering -- without considering the infrastructure clay for your barreling toward this fall. Over the past five years funding from that bipartisan infrastructure law provided nearly half of all reclamation funding and that well is drying up and if we don't act, crucial water resources will dry up next along with funding for so much else.
▶ 0:24:41Sen. Murray: Meanwhile, trump's budget would cut funding for the army corps by more than a third. The construction account would get chopped almost in half. We are talking about an enormous backlog of army corps projects, deferred construction, critical repairs that these cuts would abandon. Work we cannot delay without rolling the dice. And that is not hypothetical.
▶ 0:25:11Sen. Murray: This is the fourth year in a row we have had a drought in washington state. The river basin is 26 years into a mega drought and may be having its worst year on record right now. Corpus christi is staring on a full on water crisis in texas and this is not the time to cut water projects.
▶ 0:25:32Sen. Murray: In addition to the threat of the proposed cuts, the army corps has been rocked by trump's staffing cuts with a 12% loss since 2024 and meanwhile hiring has been frozen. You just can't keep up let alone accelerate projects while sending engineers and project managers packing. If funding cuts in staffing shortages weren't bad enough, there is the rampant political sabotage.
▶ 0:26:01Sen. Murray: After zeroing out funding the trump administration paused over $11 billion for army corps projects in blue states. Communities got frozen out simply because of who they voted for an incredibly we have yet to receive any communication on whether those projects will be moving forward. We need transparency and other preparedness.
▶ 0:26:30Sen. Murray: All we are getting is a runaround from all of you in the pentagon. I have to mention the harbor maintenance trust fund. Trump wants to shortchange up by over $1.8 billion and short change donor and energy transports. And make sure states like mine get the fair share.
▶ 0:27:04Sen. Murray: I will not let him zero out projects like the howard hansen dam that is so critical to keeping people safe. Instead, I hope we tossed trump's budget in the trashcan where it belongs and work in this committee in a bipartisan way to work to address these critical challenges and helps our families back home and that does need to include addressing the infrastructure cliff that is fast approaching when the infrastructure law expires this
▶ 0:27:37Sen. Murray: Fall. With that, back over to you.
▶ 0:27:38Chair Kennedy: Thank you, senator. Madam secretary, Mr. secretary general, I think it would be fair to say that I've been very supportive of the corps and I understand what you go through. You serve many masters.
▶ 0:28:05Chair Kennedy: I will be blunt, I know this is in your budget, it was crafted for you to a large extent. Nothing unusual or wrong about that. Most presidents put together a budget and they do it with omb as the quarterback and obviously you have input, but you don't have the final say and the budgets come to us.
▶ 0:28:35Chair Kennedy: And we hardly ever in my judgment to my memory have just adopted what a presidential budget has suggested, so I get all of that. Nonetheless what is in your budget is persuasive. It tells us what the president's priorities are. I want to talk about a number of things today.
▶ 0:29:05Chair Kennedy: And questions you can include what is on my mind in your answers. But we've got to do something about cost overruns. We've got to do better. Number two, I know you are going to want to talk, district salaries and expenses.
▶ 0:29:32Chair Kennedy: I want to talk as well about what senator murray talked about, the harbor maintenance trust fund. Folks, people pay taxes. The harbor maintenance trust fund contains money that people pay directly to use our ports. And it is supposed to be there to help our ports and help with drainage.
▶ 0:30:00Chair Kennedy: And I get that it helps to take some of that money to spend another parts of the budget and if we were pursuing a balanced budget I might could have lived with that. We don't have a balanced budget. Instead of trying to take money out of the harbor maintenance trust fund to balance the budget, you are not doing that. You are taking money out of the harbor maintenance trust fund to spend on something else.
▶ 0:30:29Chair Kennedy: And we need to have a prayer session about that. I've got some questions but I'm going to save them. Why don't we move to your statements? If you have a written text I appreciate that, but tried to read it fast.
▶ 0:30:55Chair Kennedy: I would rather you just talk to us rather than read a written statement. Madam secretary, I will start with you. >> great, good afternoon. Thank you, chairman kennedy, ranking member murray, members of the subcommittee. I will read a little bit and then highlight some things. Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
▶ 0:31:22Chair Kennedy: To discuss the president's vision to make america safer, stronger and more prosperous and its delivery of water and power. The bureau of reclamation supports flood control and recreation, reclamation projects and programs serve as the backbone of the water and power infrastructure and the driver of economic activity across rivers and basins.
▶ 0:31:51Chair Kennedy: They are valued at approximately 31 billion dollars annually. As it relates to what we are looking for it is $1.2 billion. 64 million dollars for the policy administration account. It also includes 66 point $9 million in the restoration fund.
▶ 0:32:21Chair Kennedy: In addition the budget request with the essential project completion act focused on construction of the utah lake managed race in which is the final component of the project and the funding supports construction of the spanish fork pipeline.
▶ 0:32:42Chair Kennedy: Also wanted to highlight that reclamation continues to use those existing resources to support the water supply management. In addition we had the one, big, beautiful bill act signed into law by president trump.
▶ 0:33:04Chair Kennedy: To date, reclamation has allocated $889 million of that to support modernizing water and infrastructure and improving storage capacity which includes $540 million for california, $30 million for idaho and looking at storage opportunities with lake shasta. Also some projects in south dakota and north dakota. We are focused on the colorado river and the drought.
▶ 0:33:32Chair Kennedy: Looking for those conservation activity is to protect lake mead and lake powell. We continue to work on applying funding toward infrastructure projects that address deferred maintenance enhanced dam safety and strengthen system performance so we have been working on hundreds of projects nationwide and implementing and establishing the program authorities.
▶ 0:34:01Chair Kennedy: Mr. secretary? >> chairman kennedy, vice chair murray, I'm here to talk about the army civil works budget. We think of it in three ways. We enable commercial navigation, we protect americans from flood risk.
▶ 0:34:27Chair Kennedy: If you think about waterborne commerce, this is the most, you think about flood risk. The corps of engineers builds, operates, and maintains flood risk production infrastructure. It is something the corps of engineers has done well and a times has come up short.
▶ 0:35:00Chair Kennedy: This budget focuses on that. We can't compete globally if we are underwater. A couple projects included in the budget. $33.76 million. $931 million for flood risks. The budget also includes $410 million.
▶ 0:35:35Chair Kennedy: Five years ahead of schedule.
▶ 0:35:36Chair Kennedy: Tell me about that everglades again. >> there is sufficient funding in the budget to stay on track to fully restore the everglades five years ahead of schedule. This is one of the biggest question.
▶ 0:35:52Chair Kennedy: This is new money? >> new money in addition to other money that is being appropriated. Most importantly, the budget includes a new way to delineate how we budget. Unlike most agencies 98% of our work forces outside the beltway.
▶ 0:36:28Chair Kennedy: The way we appropriate includes within project amounts. Those are great employees and we need them but this budget increases transparency. When you appropriate money for a project we can all my better decisions. The second reason is incentives.
▶ 0:37:00Chair Kennedy: I had the district commander saying, serve, I like what you are doing here. I'm torn between delivering infrastructure and we are excited about delivery and tuesday, I meet with my resource team and my hr team. This fills our district's budget hole. I'm not as mad as I should be. This budget fixes that.
▶ 0:37:35Chair Kennedy: Delivering infrastructure and maintaining their infrastructure. This is a key part of the plan. My request today is the subcommittee will join us in that effort. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:37:56Chair Kennedy: Well, we will talk about in a second. It's hard for me to believe that an accounting measure is going to solve our problems at the corps, but we can talk about it. General?
▶ 0:38:08Lt. Gen. Graham: Thank you for the opportunity and I would just have a discussion with you at the time I've got. Senator murray, thanks for highlighting the dam. I was thereafter the water managers and our team did an amazing job working hand-in-hand with the state and king county to manage the floods coming in the southern part of the city of seattle. Record pools on the green river, tremendous work.
▶ 0:38:35Lt. Gen. Graham: Would colonel sanborn and the team are doing now are to repair before the atmospheric river's hit. Proud of using the team for using these funds to get those levies repaired as fast as possible for our state and local partners. Turning to the costs we acknowledge that we have to improve our delivery.
▶ 0:39:05Lt. Gen. Graham: We have to get the engineering right. Before we ask the authorizing committees to authorize a project and before we ask this committee to appropriate funding for that. Too often we have said this is how much this project would cost when we really didn't have that project well defined. Congress, we need to build a house, as an example.
▶ 0:39:30Lt. Gen. Graham: When we should have advanced to the engineering to say we need a four bedroom house with a two-car garage on a quarter acre plot of land that has drainage issues. We have not done that, so that is our commitment that a not going to sign any report unless we have advanced the engineering to the point where we actually know what we are asking congress to authorize and appropriate. The second thing we've got to do is we've got to get the project management right.
▶ 0:39:58Lt. Gen. Graham: What that is is putting good, realistic schedules together. Stable, predictable funding that allows us to most efficiently deliver these projects. It's one of the priorities to finish what we start and that is our commitment. The third thing is to make sure we get the team right.
▶ 0:40:16Lt. Gen. Graham: The secretary has granted us almost the ability to hire a most 3000 new folks and we have two thirds on board right now to include 1000 folks that are not just moving a lower ranking person to a higher ranking position but actually bringing in external hires, talent from the civilian workforce.
▶ 0:40:36Lt. Gen. Graham: That is our commitment to you, doing everything we can to get the engineering right, get the project management right, and get the team right and I thank you and look forward to answering your questions.
▶ 0:40:48Chair Kennedy: Thank you, lady and gentlemen. I've just got one right quick. Secretary telle, you just moved $1.4 billion out of other projects to the everglades.
▶ 0:41:19Chair Kennedy: Who told you to do that?
▶ 0:41:20Sec. Telle: Chairman kennedy, thank you for the question. The law for which those funds were derived gave the army the flexibility to reallocate funds and in many cases these projects were appropriated.
▶ 0:41:35Chair Kennedy: Who told you to do that?
▶ 0:41:37Sec. Telle: The law gave us flexibility.
▶ 0:41:40Chair Kennedy: You did that on your own? That's your testimony?
▶ 0:41:47Sec. Telle: Sec. Telle: we followed the notification procedures.
▶ 0:41:49Chair Kennedy: You made that decision.
▶ 0:41:50Sec. Telle: Yes, sir, I did.
▶ 0:41:52Chair Kennedy: Nobody told you to do that?
▶ 0:41:55Sec. Telle: No sir.
▶ 0:41:56Chair Kennedy: And you are asking for more money for the everglades now?
▶ 0:42:00Sec. Telle: There are $46 billion --
▶ 0:42:03Chair Kennedy: Are you asking for more?
▶ 0:42:05Sec. Telle: It includes -- the president's budget includes four hundred 40 six million dollars more.
▶ 0:42:11Chair Kennedy: Including the one point four billion dollars you took out of other projects.
▶ 0:42:16Sec. Telle: Yes, sir.
▶ 0:42:18Chair Kennedy: What projects did you take the money out of the everglades --out?
▶ 0:42:24Sec. Telle: I would have to get back to you.
▶ 0:42:27Chair Kennedy: There are multiple sources.
▶ 0:42:29Sec. Telle: You don't remember?
▶ 0:42:31Chair Kennedy: Which ones?
▶ 0:42:33Sec. Telle: The infrastructure and job creation act.
▶ 0:42:36Chair Kennedy: You took it out of the west shore project in louisiana, didn't you?
▶ 0:42:41Sec. Telle: No, sir.
▶ 0:42:46Chair Kennedy: You took it out of the louisiana posture train project.
▶ 0:42:47Sec. Telle: No, sir, that is underway.
▶ 0:42:49Chair Kennedy: You took it out of a project in east baton rouge parish.
▶ 0:42:54Sec. Telle: No, sir.
▶ 0:42:55Chair Kennedy: How about the grand isle project?
▶ 0:42:58Sec. Telle: No, sir.
▶ 0:43:03Chair Kennedy: You're telling me you didn't take any out of these on anybody's instruction to work on the everglades while you are working on more everglades budget?
▶ 0:43:09Sec. Telle: The projects in louisiana are all on track. Those are great projects and we have been working to deliver those.
▶ 0:43:16Chair Kennedy: Your testimony is that you on your own, nobody told you to do it, you took money out of the projects but they are still on course to spend more money in the everglades. Is that your testimony?
▶ 0:43:29Sec. Telle: No, that is not my testimony.
▶ 0:43:32Chair Kennedy: Tell me what your testimony is then.
▶ 0:43:35Sec. Telle: There are aged funds, some of them more than 10 years old, this is a disgrace. We have $46 billion that we haven't found the ability to execute the congress is allocated. When we have aged funds that can be applied to something that will save lives and protect critical ecosystem restoration projects, those are things where we use --
▶ 0:44:00Chair Kennedy: I'm going to come back to this, but god gave me the right to remain silent. I have protected you and the corps every step of the way up here. I have defended the corps when some of my colleagues wanted to dog cuss you and change you.
▶ 0:44:34Chair Kennedy: I have defended you. I don't understand this move in money to the everglades. We are going to have to have a prayer session about it. You want to talk about how best to make the corps efficient? Tell us the truth. I don't believe you did this alone, Mr. secretary. I think somebody told you to do it.
▶ 0:45:05Chair Kennedy: Wait a minute, Mr. secretary. I'm talking. I want to know who it was. I want to know why you did it. You can't spit in my face and tell me it is raining. And that's how I feel. Those are my questions for now. But I have others.
▶ 0:45:34Chair Kennedy: Madame vice chair, do you have some?
▶ 0:45:35Sen. Murray: I do, thank you very much. Assistant secretary, we talked about this recently, but I hear constantly from ports and harbors about how much they rely on the harbor maintenance trust fund and despite the importance of this funding your budget request is just as insufficient as last year. Your proposal would mean a cut of nearly $2 billion from what we just enacted and it would provide zero funding for donor and energy transfer ports.
▶ 0:46:08Sen. Murray: That's not acceptable. Will you commit to us that donor ports will receive their full, fair share of dollars as congress intended for fy 26?
▶ 0:46:18Sec. Telle: Yes, ma'am, in fiscal year 2026 the act provided what amounted to 13% for those donor energy transfer ports and we are on track with
▶ 0:46:31That Funding Sen. Murray: . You will commit to us that you will get that out as intended?
▶ 0:46:37Sec. Telle: We will absolutely follow the law.
▶ 0:46:40Sen. Murray: These ports are a gateway to the world and are economic engines for the state and the country and I will not sit by and watch my estate get shortchanged. Assistant secretary, you know that the west is in the midst of a really historic drought.
▶ 0:46:59Sen. Murray: More than 70% of the west is experiencing drought conditions and because of those serious challenges we are facing, the bipartisan infrastructure law and the inflation reduction act both provided billions in funding to the bureau of rack to help with projects like fixing aging canals and dams that funding has made a huge difference.
▶ 0:47:30Sen. Murray: But this administration has slowed down money getting out the door and that needs to change. We are now staring down a cliff of $1.66 billion in funding each year for water projects when the bipartisan infrastructure law funding comes to an end and tens of billions more across key programs elsewhere but your budget proposes nothing to address that massive shortfall so I wanted to ask you today, is it this administration's view
▶ 0:48:02Sen. Murray: That we should make massive cuts to drop funding so we can have more money for defense contractors which is how the budget appears to me? Sec.
▶ 0:48:08Travnicek: Thank you for the question. Yes, we are seeing drought across the western states and we are working really hard to continue to get those previous dollars out the door so as a relates to those aging infrastructure dollars, they are moving to get some more moving this week. You mentioned where we have to one, big, beautiful bill.
▶ 0:48:31Travnicek: So for water storage, water conveyance so that is where we are focused on making sure that we are trying to get infrastructure dollars taken care of some of the projects that have been out there and then of course looking ahead with the budget that we do have, trying to make sure we are operating, maintaining and modernizing the infrastructure we do have in working with our various partners so to make those dollars go farther it is working with the different partners and states and districts.
▶ 0:49:01Travnicek: It is going to take all of us working together to work toward solving the drought together.
▶ 0:49:05Sen. Murray: Just so everybody understands, this funding is a huge cliff in october and that means drastic cuts to all of these programs that all of our states rely on and we need to work within this committee to make sure we don't face a huge disaster with all of that. Assistant secretary telle, this committee relies on timely, factual information from the army corps districts to do our job.
▶ 0:49:35Sen. Murray: Last october the department of defense issued a gag order requiring all congressional communication to be routed through the legislative affairs at the pentagon. We are now seeing major project decisions like the release of the updated spend plans or the transfer projects announced before congress and sometimes even our local partners are notified. I can't stress enough that our local partners are not mere spectators to this.
▶ 0:50:05Sen. Murray: They are major financial stakeholders and core projects. During last fall shut down. To pause or cancel $11 billion any central core projects for can't terminate or pause or alter the scope of the project
▶ 0:50:36Sen. Murray: Without prior written justification from this committee. As we talked about, I've heard of multiple instances where you have terminated studies including those funded with congressional directed spending without any prior notification. I want to ask you why did you ignore the law and failed to notify congress?
▶ 0:50:56Sec. Telle: Thank you for the question. As we discussed in your objects no projects as he described them have been terminated. District commanders have made recommendations up the chain, those projects have not reached general graham's desk for my desk as we discussed. It is important for a districts to communicate there have been no terminations.
▶ 0:51:25Sec. Telle: I would say the letter you referenced in our previous meeting is an example of why it is important for the left-hand and right-hand to know what is going on in an organization.
▶ 0:51:35Sen. Murray: I don't know who the left-hand or right-hand is but I will submit for the record a list of terminated projects and we rode into our bill very specifically that we would be notified and were not so I will submit that to the record.
▶ 0:51:52Chair Kennedy: Without objection.
▶ 0:51:54Sen. Murray: And again, secretary telle, washington state has a lot of ongoing projects. Howard hanson we just talked about. Deepening the seattle and tacoma harbors. I can't underscore and strong enough terms how important these projects are not just to my state but to our entire nation. We talked about howard hansen dam and thank you for being out there. This is addressing safety issues and providing water supply.
▶ 0:52:26Sen. Murray: We need it for flooding before we have a complete disaster and it is important for our critical salmon habitat. I had to fight tooth and nail as the chairman will remember and I appreciate your help, sir, to secure funding for that project so I'm going to ask you do you commit to execute every dollar of congressionally appropriated funding exactly as has been directed for those projects?
▶ 0:52:56Sec. Telle: Yes, ma'am. We executed the project on the howard hansen dam within the timeframe provided in the energy and water appropriations act for fiscal year 2026.
▶ 0:53:08Sen. Murray: Thank you, we will be watching very closely to make sure that is followed.
▶ 0:53:13Chair Kennedy: Senator hyde-smith.
▶ 0:53:17Senator Hyde-Smith: Welcome those of you who are willing to testify and I can't think of any better to run the army corps civil works and we've worked together along time on many issues and I think you are fit for this position no doubt. I want to cover three topics today.
▶ 0:53:38Senator Hyde-Smith: First being the azu back water pumps that I have worked on for a long time and I know you are very familiar with that, but the dam repairs is very important and the building infrastructure not paperwork initiative that I want to talk about.
▶ 0:54:04Senator Hyde-Smith: We are thrilled to see money in the budget for the funding for the construction of the backwater area projects. As ada commissioner in the state we had a half a million over six months that could not be farmed.
▶ 0:54:23Senator Hyde-Smith: It is so vital to save lives and public infrastructure but the billions of dollars of agricultural losses that for decades the taxpayers are footing the bill.
▶ 0:54:44Senator Hyde-Smith: It was bad when it was bad people bagging so many months and years for help with that issue, this project will give one of the most rural underserved areas of the country which has been devastated for years, this will give that little community an opportunity
▶ 0:55:16Senator Hyde-Smith: To flourish. You can imagine how excited I am at this budget but we have recently learned that the fiscal year capability has increased since the time the budget was prepared so should congress appropriated funding above the amount proposed in the budget are you confident those
▶ 0:55:47Senator Hyde-Smith: Additional funds can be put to good use and make a major difference in the lives of all those people down there in the delta?
▶ 0:56:01Sec. Telle: You're absolutely right this with off -- this was authorized. The great flood of 1927. This affected mississippi and louisiana and so many other places. To your question, the president's budget includes $30 million for this project. The technical assistance indicates 100 million dollars for this project in addition to that.
▶ 0:56:40Sec. Telle: I'm confident the additional money can be executed in fiscal year 2027. If additional funding is included, we will put it to good use.
▶ 0:56:57Lt. Gen. Graham: I absolutely agree that the mitigation additional funding can be put to work in the yearly appropriations and we will do our best.
▶ 0:57:13Sen. Hyde-Smith: I have a little time, I was pleased to see that the robust funding for the dam that supports 57,200 acres of flood control reservoir and north mississippi. In 2023, the structural issues, that is when they were detected in the dam, putting it at risk for severe potential failure at the time. It would sure be catastrophic.
▶ 0:57:44Sen. Hyde-Smith: Homes, rural towns, and hundreds of thousands of acres downstream. Failure is not an option for that. Should congress appropriated funding, can you tell me how that would flow out and are you confident this could be handled to actually correct the problem that we have?
▶ 0:58:11Sec. Telle: The corps of engineers rank all of the dams based to another safety level and concerns. They are number one and two in terms of the dams we are looking at nationwide in terms of safety concerns. The budget reflects this. As you say an additional capability has been reflected.
▶ 0:58:38Sec. Telle: The good news story as I was briefed earlier this week about this project and our office have brought to the attention that this might take 10 years or longer. Right now, it looks like we're going to start construction in 2028 and it will be completed within five years. So we are moving in the right direction.
▶ 0:58:59Sen. Hyde-Smith: Thank you when of time.
▶ 0:59:01Chair Kennedy: Thank you. Senator merkley.
▶ 0:59:05Senator Merkley: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Because of the work you all do across the country, we all have projects in our various states we are concerned about and this is a chance for us to follow up on them and ask for your help.
▶ 0:59:24Senator Merkley: Assistant secretary travnicek, back in 2018, congressman walden and I set up a climate drought response agency to assist farmers in the klamath basin who had to idle their land for a season due to drought. Since then, the bureau of reclamation has continued to support the agency in drought years. This year the base unfortunately is in severe drought.
▶ 0:59:53Senator Merkley: And there is some funding left over from fy 25 and 26 available to help out thankfully. But as we look to fy 27 the president's budget doesn't contain funding for the climate drought response agency. If we face another drought year in the summer of 2027, can I get you to commit to helping us get that dra assistance to the klamath farmers?
▶ 1:00:23Sec. Travnicek: Thank you for the question and as he mentioned we are seeing a drought situation in the klamath basin as well and as he mentioned so we were able to put some funding toward that drought response agency this year with the $19.1 million. We were also able to so far given allocation of 221,000 acre-feet. Working really closely with the stakeholders within the area.
▶ 1:00:49Sen. Merkley: I have a very small amount of time and I'm very well aware of what I -- you just said it is what I just said to you. There is nothing in the budget next year. Can I get your help to make sure we are not left high and dry neck summer?
▶ 1:01:04Sec. Travnicek: We will continue to work with you and what that drought response might look like next year.
▶ 1:01:09Sen. Merkley: Ok. I'm perceiving good intentions to be helpful.
▶ 1:01:14Sec. Travnicek: Very much so will.
▶ 1:01:18Sen. Merkley: Assistant secretary, thank you for meeting with me last week and facilitating the meeting about the 42nd street levy project.
▶ 1:01:36Sen. Merkley: I had mentioned the city had been told that project had been paused and then I had been told it was not paused but I do have emails in which they told the city it had been paused and they were specific about the administration saying the administration was not forwarding funds to that project. Here's the thing.
▶ 1:02:06Sen. Merkley: The city has done their co-pay, they have spent $400,000 in checks to the corps to get the study done. The corps has taken the checks and now just as the whole thing is paused. How do we resolve this? I know you offered to help. Have you been able to facilitate some conversations to get this straightened out?
▶ 1:02:32Sen. Merkley: Without the study they can't proceed and we are talking about a levy that is 60 years old, that protects 24,000 people and they are very concerned that they've got to complete the study and try to make sure this thing doesn't collapse.
▶ 1:02:48Sec. Telle: Thank you for the question. I don't believe that project has been paused, I don't believe that information is accurate. General graham has personally looked into this for us.
▶ 1:03:00Gen. Graham: Senator, it is not paused. There were some pickups and getting the current year money released and that was just administrative work. I'm responsible for that, that got fixed yesterday, they are moving forward with 100 $60,000 they have in their current accounts to keep it moving forward.
▶ 1:03:24Sen. Merkley: I just want to make sure, I just want you to understand I'm just reading from the email from the corps that says the springfield 42nd street levy project flood risk cap project has been stopped due to the positive issuance of additional federal funds. Lieutenant general, you are saying you've had conversations that it is back on track?
▶ 1:03:55Gen. Graham: That's correct.
▶ 1:03:57Sen. Merkley: I just want you to know I'm not making this up. You kind of implied that you didn't believe that was true.
▶ 1:04:04Sec. Telle: What I will say and this is not specific for this project, it is quite common for our project managers in the field to get the best result for the taxpayer and ensure the nonfederal sponsors and the government are seeing eye to eye, it is common practice for practitioners in the field to press pause.
▶ 1:04:28Sec. Telle: I just want to make sure that you understand from our perspective where project may be paused for some good reason that is technical in nature.
▶ 1:04:41Sen. Merkley: I accept that fine. I wanted you to understand I'm not creating some fiction here. It is from the portland district of the corps. I will enter a copy of it into the record. Thank you. But I understand discussions have proceeded.
▶ 1:05:12Sen. Merkley: Because they are feeling very stranded. Really appreciate that.
▶ 1:05:17Chair Kennedy: Can I borrow that email? [laughter] sorry, go ahead.
▶ 1:05:22Sen. Merkley: I will help you anyway I can. The will, hydropower study, this is a study where there are 13 dams and the various owners wanted to understand what is the significance of the different hydropower pieces.
▶ 1:05:53Sen. Merkley: We had a whole preceding project on the klamath dams where the owner did not want to refurbish the next 50 year lease. This is the sixth time I've asked to get this study delivered. And I'm told that the only response we can get is it is in omb and someday we will get told something about it, but this is in law from 2022.
▶ 1:06:25Sen. Merkley: How do we actually, assistant secretary, how do we when we put something into law, it doesn't seem right that the study is paid for, authorized, done, and then is sitting who knows what closet somewhere because somebody doesn't like what the study says? How do we get it out of that closet and delivered as the law expects?
▶ 1:06:50Chair Kennedy: We will have to move on.
▶ 1:06:53Sen. Merkley: Ok, thank you.
▶ 1:06:55Chair Kennedy: No, please answer.
▶ 1:06:57Sec. Telle: Senator, we are in almost daily communication with the interagency about how to move things along. In this case, this spans multiple years and it has to do with taking hydropower facilities off-line and transferring them to power marketing agencies, it's a very complicated question that the interagency must deliberate on. I'm interested in getting it to you as quickly as we possibly can and I'm working toward that.
▶ 1:07:27Sen. Merkley: I appreciate that because it may be interagency, but the study has been paid for, it is done, it is in law. At some point we are handing it over and maybe put a preface on a wet that you don't like the results or something but for it to be buried forever is a waste of the taxpayer money and a violation of the spirit of the law.
▶ 1:07:50Chair Kennedy: Senator britt.
▶ 1:07:52Senator Britt: Thank you all of you for being here today. Thank you for all your work and I look forward to talking about some important things. I want to start with assistant secretary telle and general graham and express my appreciation for what you've done for the mobile harbor project. The ship channel is truly transformative to the state of alabama and the entire gulf coast region and ultimately to commerce and it's a critical gateway for our entire nation.
▶ 1:08:24Senator Britt: I appreciate the attention to the dredging and material management techniques. Thank you so much for being so intentional. Maximizing the resources is important but so is ensuring that we are good stewards of the base natural resources but especially when so many jobs and industries in local communities dependent on the help and the beauty and the wildlife of the
▶ 1:08:55Senator Britt: Local bay. That brings me to something we can all agree on and that is the streamlining of the permanent process. What you cite is a major accomplishment made possible through the collaboration through local stakeholders.
▶ 1:09:19Senator Britt: Despite the broad support the permanent process, general graham or assistant secretary, how does the corps possible broader initiative focused on improving red tape help streamline overlapping permitting and overview processes?
▶ 1:09:44Senator Britt: So the critical infrastructure projects can move forward more quickly?
▶ 1:09:51Sec. Telle: It's an important question. I think of heard frustrations at the federal level. They've done a tremendous amount to streamline this process. In march of last year in response to a supreme court decision we updated our guidance to the field about how to determine what is and what is not allowed under current law.
▶ 1:10:22Sec. Telle: We have a proposed final rule for comment and we hope to see that in the coming months to provide certainty. When it comes to beneficial use, it is often the long pole in the tent. If we don't have a place to put the material in a cost-effective way it makes it difficult to keep our ports and harbors deep and maintained.
▶ 1:10:50Sec. Telle: So, part of building infrastructure is asking our partners at ports to think about this in advance to work with us to find these sites and make sure the process is streamlined. If we could use every grain of sand we hand -- we had we would, it becomes cost prohibitive in some cases.
▶ 1:11:11Sen. Britt: Let's continue to work together to get it right. While I have you on the restructuring and making things more efficient, there has been some back-and-forth about salaries and the changes to the budgeting process with regard to staff salaries.
▶ 1:11:30Sen. Britt: Can you talk a little bit about how that change would alternately allow you to better execute projects in the long term because I think there has been some confusion about that and we would love to hear from you on that.
▶ 1:11:42Sec. Telle: Certainly and I think chairman kennedy said earlier that an accounting challenge, he's skeptical whether it can fix all the problems of the corps and I agree with that. It is one of 28 reforms. It is the one that is most relevant to this subcommittee. I would argue there is very little in the way that the subcommittee in congress appropriates the water bill that enforces our workforce to deliver.
▶ 1:12:11Sec. Telle: The project funding, our employees bill to the project funding and there is no limit on the project funding.
▶ 1:12:22Sen. Britt: You would just be incentivized to keep it going?
▶ 1:12:26Sec. Telle: That's correct and ever that from our commanders. That's not the position we should put them in. This budget includes a split between project costs and salaries and expenses. It allows us to have a workforce to count on their salaries whether or not they are tied to a project. We think the co-mingling of these funds will result in a workforce whose incentives are more aligned.
▶ 1:13:01Sen. Britt: Last thing, Mr. chairman, the waterway is a critical piece of the navigation network. We have a study authorized and I'm working with the subcommittee to secure the funding.
▶ 1:13:21Sen. Britt: Given the importance of that corridor I wanted to ask for your commitment to continue working with my office to ensure we can move this study forward in the future?
▶ 1:13:33Sec. Telle: Absolutely. . >> thank you. Thank you, Mr. chair. >> folks in the senate and around the country have heard a lot about the colorado river the last couple of years. This is the pueblo santa ana north of albuquerque. In a normal year, the river is between 3,000 and 4,000 c.f.s.
▶ 1:14:06Sec. Telle: Cubic feet per second. Last year we thought it was an absolute emergency. This year it's at 200 right now. It's getting harder and harder to manage the rio grande in the current situation ginn that there's not enough water to go around, assistant secretary.
▶ 1:14:31Sec. Telle: How is reclamation making changes now? >> thank you. It was good to be out there. I was in el paso on friday and took the time to get over and see some of the infrastructure you have within the state of new mexico and you're right.
▶ 1:14:58Sec. Telle: Drove over the rio grande and that's exactly what it looks like in some areas. Working through the allocations, it's related to whether it's a treaty or an agreement already in place and also trying to see if there are areas where we can any outside the box if we have that ability to do so. We're trying all the different tools in the tool box and also open to new thoughts and ideas.
▶ 1:15:23Sec. Telle: At the same time we're having discussions related to decell, areas of water augmentation. Reuse. We're looking at everything. >> one of the reasons we're in a tough spot in the rio grande is because one of our significant water facilities is offline right now.
▶ 1:15:55Sec. Telle: Needs to be refurrished. When will reclamation decide when to pursue alvado dam? >> I realize how important that is, recognizing the importance of the storage.
▶ 1:16:12Sec. Telle: The team working on it, the engineers so where we're at in the process right now, we're doing a field exploration study looking at where those impacts might be related to concerns on seepage so we're going to be doing some drilling, looking at the foundation. The goal is that the field work will be going on this september.
▶ 1:16:33Sec. Telle: I think what's slate right now is the may to september time frame will you hopefully we can figure out the preferred alternative and get that up and running. >> in this case what I hope I do see is no action. Because-year up a creek for that because-year up a creek for th that. Four metaphor.
▶ 1:17:00Sec. Telle: One of the things in the current situation that a shark across basis in the west is water smart grant funding. Congress appropriated that and I believe about 1.3 of that has been spent so far.
▶ 1:17:22Sec. Telle: Are you looking at that as a way to try to create new wet water in some of these systems or at least let some of the stress out? Because we've had a particular grant they believe is still tied up, even though approved. >> thank you for the question. Can you tell me which one it is? >> sharmba peek land alliance.
▶ 1:17:51Sec. Telle: For getting the watershed to produce more into the system. >> ok, I'll take that back to look at it closer. That's right. We're looking to still maximize using those dollars we have from previously, putting those to good use. We continue to not only look at water smart one that is still exist but the other programs as well but I'll take that back.
▶ 1:18:20Sen. Peter: I understand the bureau of reclamation and the national academies of science are ready to start on that. They just need the army corps to fully participate. Is the army corps going to participate in that?
▶ 1:18:46Sec. Telle: I'm showing an 2005 of funding for this.
▶ 1:18:56Gen. Graham: We do work collaboratively with the bureau of reclamation throughout the rio grande valley. We don't believe we have the authority nor funding to send that funds to national committee of science but our goal is to come back to see if we can find a way forward of this.
▶ 1:19:24Sen. Peters: I appreciate your intent.
▶ 1:19:26Chair Kennedy: There was a long piece, I think it was the "wall street journal" that the cover was "we have a mess." it's basically a problem of snow, isn't it?
▶ 1:19:39Sen. Peters: It is but it's also -- the entire watershed is producing less water than it used to and we've known this for several decades and every year the storage gets lower and at a some point the system doesn't even work if the water level in some of those resident -- rogue
▶ 1:20:09Sen. Peters: Varies gets below what was intended.
▶ 1:20:15Chair Kennedy: Senator? >> good to see you. Thank you for your help on eastern north dakota alternative water supply project. Very important for the as a whole eastern half of north dakota.
▶ 1:20:36Chair Kennedy: We made very good use of that and also with the mccluskey canal which saves both the state and the federal government about $200 million because we're using it. But we have more to do on the federal share. The state is stepping up and doing its part. Talk to me about how we're going to continue to provide additional funding to complete that vital project?
▶ 1:21:03Chair Kennedy: >> good to sigh you, senator hoeven. You're right. I know how important that is to you and the constituents and how many communities that will be serving. You've mentioned we were able to get the one big beautiful deal, 100 million for that and continue to look for other opportunities as well and recognize the importance of the savings that go into that by being able to use the canal.
▶ 1:21:35Sen. Hoeven: Also, in the president's budget, we have your full support in making sure that we secure that funding to again match the state's efforts this year? >> correct, start? In the president's bunts, yes.
▶ 1:21:51Sen. Hoeven: And we have your full support to make sure it's funded as well to match the state's efforts? >> we will continue to do that. Japan, thank you and thank you for your good work on this project iser ands. Secretary telle, thanks for being in fargo last week. Great job on a great project.
▶ 1:22:14Sen. Hoeven: You've been so proactive and so good on a $3.2 billion that's coming in under budget ahead of schedule that will provide flood protection for the same area in north dakota as well as minnesota with a new private-public partnership. I don't have an ask.
▶ 1:22:35Sen. Hoeven: I have a big thanks and just thinking that -- I want to, again, bring it up because you've been so good and helpful, anything you would want to offer on that?
▶ 1:22:50Sec. Telle: Thank you for having me out in north dakota. I appreciate the thanks. But you and others, the maybe deserve a lot of credit on this. This is one of the biggest flood projects we've seen in recent years. The federal government is only covering $of 35% of the costs because the local governments have stepped up in such an incredible way.
▶ 1:23:17Sec. Telle: It's unfortunate that it took superhere others like john hoeven for us to do some innovative but we want to take the same can-do attitude and spread it across the country and get deliberate about infrastructure, which is what is happening in north dakota happening in north north dakota.
▶ 1:23:49Sen. Hoeven: Can they benefit louisiana?
▶ 1:23:55Sec. Telle: Absolutely and lions is in particular need to have corps of engineers' help.
▶ 1:24:02Sec. Hoeven: That is a good mold for any state because it saves money, saist time, gets the project working and saves time, right?
▶ 1:24:15Sec. Telle: Absolutely, scars from sandbagging over the years motivated everyone and luckily we mad a st. Paul district was willing to help and deliver.
▶ 1:24:31Sen. Hoeven: You've been very helpful on that vital project not just for the state but for the country. 800,000 barrels a day of the best light sweet crude we produce out of north dakota for the rest of the country. Any updates, thoughts, comments on that? >> this is a particularly important piece of infrom structure. Part of president trump's energy dominance agenda.
▶ 1:24:59Sen. Hoeven: The key element of economic success and global influence. It was unfortunate that this project was tied up in tape for so many years. I expect a final record of decision imminently.
▶ 1:25:13Sen. Hoeven: Thanks for your incredible work on it. General graham, we have a lake that's incredible for so many reasons. Power supply, but also for recreation. There are a lot of local groups putting money into boat ramps, access roads and everything else.
▶ 1:25:41Sen. Hoeven: Your commitment to work with them to make sure those boat ramps, access roads and other facilities are updated and available?
▶ 1:25:52Gen. Graham: Our facilities are where the people are. 250 million visitation as year is what we get so we want to bring every ounce out of public value that we steward and you absolutely have our commitment.
▶ 1:26:13Sen. Hoeven: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:26:19Chair Kennedy: We call senator hoeven by his nickname superhoeven too. In high school he was knowned a scooter.
▶ 1:26:34Sen. Hoeven: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:26:43Chair Kennedy: [laughter] thank you. Mr. peters, we're not paying attention to the clock anyway.
▶ 1:26:50Sen. Peters: I appreciate that. Thank you, chairman. Thank you, chairman. Ththank you, member, thank you. I want to start today by talking about the brandon road interbasin project. Put simply this project is our one and only hope of keeping carp from decimating of the great lakes and causing irreparable harm to our economy and way of life really throughout the great lakes region.
▶ 1:27:19Sen. Peters: It's been a long-time priority of mine and I'm glad to see it was also a priority of the president as well as made clear in his protecting the great lakes presidential memorandum. But dob to be clear, we don't just have to get this project done, we also have to get it done as soon as possible. Carp are not waiting for that project and they're working aggressively to try to get into the great lakes watershed.
▶ 1:27:50Sen. Peters: When question melt you outlined the fiscal year 2027 funding for the brandon project at $235 million. That level of funding would help ensure the timely award of the increment to flushing dock and the right to guide wall construction contracts which is key to keeping this project on track so I'm laser focused on securing this level of funding in the fy27 energy and water
▶ 1:28:20Sen. Peters: Bill. My question consider if you, secretary telle and general graham, if both of you would let the committee know the importance of this project, how you've worked to get construction moving and how vital it is. Vital, again stressing that it gets completed on time.
▶ 1:28:40Sec. Telle: Thank you, senator peters. I like to zoom out when I talk about this project because prior to the 20th century, the great lakes and the mississippi river system weren't connected. The corps of engineers during the last century connected them, which has been great for commerce. I like to say it connects new orleans, louisiana to buffalo, new york, which is a miracle, by water.
▶ 1:29:07Sec. Telle: The unfortunate byproduct of that is that asian carp entered the mississippi river system and are now threatening to enter the great lakes and I've heard from you on a number of occasions and those throughout the great lakes states about the impact this would have on the economy and the quality of the great lakes which is a national treasure.
▶ 1:29:33Sec. Telle: The waterway connects those two and a perfect choke point we've identified to identify asian carp and turn them around. It's bubble curtains, acoustics, electric shock. Flushing locks, as you mentioned. All of these are things that we've studied will turn the asian carp around and not allow them to enter the great lakes. As you said, president trump believes in that same cause.
▶ 1:30:02Sec. Telle: You've been a tremendous advocate for it and a great partner. Thank you.
▶ 1:30:07Gen. Graham: This is all about momentum and we have great momentum right now. Progressing forward with that, and moving forward on the second lock, the flushing lock as you said would be a great step guard to maintain momentum. Deliver it efficiently and protect the great lakes.
▶ 1:30:28Sen. Peters: Great, I appreciate it. Secretary telle, you signed to for moneying to prevent the southeast flood management study, another top priority of mine. For that I'd like to say thank you. This is going to help ensure that the study progresses to the point of which the corps will be able to develop a thorough, technical report to address future flooding in the area.
▶ 1:31:00Sen. Peters: With this request signed I'm hoping we can get the study done in the coming fiscal year to start delivering some tangible results for residents throughout southeast michigan. By my account this study needs another $800,000 in federal funding to complete it. That's what I'm going to be requesting in the water bill.
▶ 1:31:26Sen. Peters: Can I count on both of you to work with me to get this study done?
▶ 1:31:33Sec. Telle: Senator peters, thank you for the question and this is a result of building infrastructure, not paperwork. This success in southeast michigan. We had hesitancy in the past to make a decision and give a community the information that we had acquired and that they'd help fund about how best to protect themselves. There may be a role for the federal government and the local community. We applied a new process really about making decisions.
▶ 1:32:05Sec. Telle: Getting even involved into a conference room and making decisions about how to proceed on this project. Instead of being studied forever, we're going to be able to deliver something to protect the citizens in that area of the state.
▶ 1:32:20Gen. Graham: Senator, it's all about hustle. As secretary telle spoke to, get that information where it can do the most good.
▶ 1:32:32Sen. Peters: Thank you very much. I want to get them all done soon, certainly by the end of the year for a lot of reasons, thank you.
▶ 1:32:42Chair Kennedy: We're waiting on senator macau ski. Senator murray has to leave. Nets you would like to add?
▶ 1:32:55Sen. Murray: No, just appreciate your work.
▶ 1:33:00Chair Kennedy: Appreciate that. Oh, you texted? Senator? >> I grabbed a copy of the letter that I sent to you, general, and the reason I did that is because, with regard to the study that we were talking about, it's my understanding and this is articulated in the letter, that there are four different public latherings for your ability to participate in that study and I'll share that
▶ 1:33:31Chair Kennedy: With you again but I think we have plenty of authorization. I think what we're asking for here is basically just technical assistance.
▶ 1:33:43Gen. Graham: Senator, I did read your letter. I still think we have some disagreements among the staff. Pep happy to get everybody in the same room and see if we can work that out. >> I think we need to do that. Another question for you, Mr. telle. You mentioned in your opening testimony the importance of transparency in the budget.
▶ 1:34:06Gen. Graham: Can you provide me with a list of the current army corps projects in the state of new mexico and what their status are?
▶ 1:34:18Sec. Telle: Absolutely but it races another point. My first day on the job I asked the team how many projects are authorized in the country and they said, sir, we don't know and I view this as something that is inappropriate. We ought to know which projects are on the boom. General graham has since hired someone to count all the projects. Our estimate is between 1,000 and 10,000. That's a big range.
▶ 1:34:47Sec. Telle: This is something we hope to have in the coming weeks but this is part of what we're doing to make sure that we clear out things that are aged and focus our effort on what's needed today. >> so what's a reasonable time frame for that just for the state of new mexico? >> senator, we can get you the answer by the end of the week for new mexico. If we find others while the general is counting, we'll let you know. >> thank you.
▶ 1:35:14Sec. Telle: I'm told that the corps no longer has the ability to participate in the rio grandea endangered species program. As we've had less and less water, we've has listings on the rio grande. Started by a senator to manage some of those conflicts and has worked really well.
▶ 1:35:37Sec. Telle: Will you -- can you provide me with an explanation for why the decision was made to pull out of that?
▶ 1:35:45Sec. Telle: I believe that the e.s.a. Issue was given a clean bill of health around 2018 on this project and that's why -- in other words, the challenge that we were facing has been addressed.
▶ 1:36:03Sec. Telle: >> so, as assistant secretary telle spoke to, senator, yes, our partition pace is no longer required under the 2017, I believe it was biological opinion but I know there are fund sit on this and my understanding here had to is that our researchers in the district are still putting lake towards that end. I'll come back to your staff. >> yeah, you can come back with an explanation.
▶ 1:36:28Sec. Telle: I think what we want to make sure is that we don't get ourselves back into the problem we had before. >> yes, sir. >> thank you.
▶ 1:36:36Chair Kennedy: I've got a couple more. I promised you folks that you could talk about your district salaries and expenses. Project. Give us a 30 already 40-second overview like you're talking to a sot grader. >> thank you, Mr. chairman. The way that the corps of engineers has received funds from congress and projected has been by project.
▶ 1:37:04Chair Kennedy: We have 39 civil works districts across the country. That's the large part of our staff. Our workforce is spread out. The way that we pay the salaries of those employees is by allowing them to bill to the project. So every project has a labor cost and a delivery cost like a contract to execute the project.
▶ 1:37:24Chair Kennedy: I get it. How do you want to do it differently?
▶ 1:37:29Sec. Telle: The fy27 president's budgets recommends separating the labor costs from the other costs. To give you an idea of what percentage is on labor and there's a tension between cleaver and project that we want to bring.
▶ 1:37:55Chair Kennedy: So for transparency reasons?
▶ 1:37:58Sec. Telle: Yes, sir, that's one of the reasons.
▶ 1:38:01Chair Kennedy: How is it going to be more transparent if you just have a new entry that says salary? How are you going to know what salary goes with what project?
▶ 1:38:14Sec. Telle: In the previous way it was budgeted and appropriated there was no information about salaries whatsoever, it's just about project. It's more transparent in that it pulls the salaries out of the properties. That's why it's more transparent because it provides more information. This is a rare case where the executive branch is sharing more information with the legislative branch.
▶ 1:38:39Chair Kennedy: Will you have internal data that shows how much salary is attributable to a particular project?
▶ 1:38:48Sec. Telle: We pub accomplished that information for the fiscal 27 budget request, we've share that had information with your committee and briefed your committee statue on the back end accounting system.
▶ 1:39:03Chair Kennedy: If you shared that information with all the members of congress about the projects in their districts?
▶ 1:39:08Sec. Telle: Senator in sharing the fy27 budget request, we shared it and we have published the split and shared it with every member of congress and nine who's asked.
▶ 1:39:23Chair Kennedy: Ok. So as I understand it right now, Mr. secretary, right now there's no column for salaries and expenses.
▶ 1:39:34Sec. Telle: For the districts, that's correct.
▶ 1:39:35Chair Kennedy: It's just included in each project. And now you're going to break it out? Go ahead, general.
▶ 1:39:44Gen. Graham: Yes, sir, you're correct. It will still be by project so before there was one lump sum for each project. Now it will be for the project delivery of the contract and then the internal labor. But it will still be by project broken out that way so each project you'll see what the in-house labor bill is.
▶ 1:40:05Chair Kennedy: Ok, so for each project, labor and expenses will still be a line item but in terms of the budget, salaries and espns will be -- have its own category is, that right? >> yes, sir, that's correct.
▶ 1:40:28Chair Kennedy: How is that going to help the corps?
▶ 1:40:33Sec. Telle: By incentivize
▶ 1:40:37Sec. Telle: By incentivizing deliveries.
▶ 1:40:38Kelsey: How does that incentivize delivery. I'm not doubting you, I just don't understand how.
▶ 1:40:45Sec. Telle: When a commissioner sees that that project is going to continue next year it challenges a lot of things with the statue knowing that project will continue. Projects become lines of revenue for districts and someone has to make the business decision about whether that's a good or bad thing for the district.
▶ 1:41:16Sec. Telle: If we take that off the table. It will solely focus our commanders and workforce on delivery.
▶ 1:41:25Chair Kennedy: But, Mr. secretary, tough data right now, don't you?
▶ 1:41:29Sec. Telle: Yes, sir, we do.
▶ 1:41:31Chair Kennedy: So you can tell, can you not, when a district manager is gaming the season?
▶ 1:41:40Sec. Telle: We could and we will going forward but in question had never been asked before.
▶ 1:41:46Chair Kennedy: Which question is that?
▶ 1:41:48Sec. Telle: The question of at scale how much of our project budgets were going towards salaries.
▶ 1:41:55Chair Kennedy: I-just don't understand how coming up with a new line item for salaries and expenses is going to make our lives better. If you already have the data anyway. That is not listed in the budget.
▶ 1:42:15Sec. Telle: In many ways you're correct. We have the ability administratively to build what I would call a cardboard firewall between salaries, experiences and project costs. We're asking the committee to help us build a brick firewall so the demonstration throughout the little in washington is that we're serious about accounting for project and labor costs and can make rational decisions on each side right now.
▶ 1:42:45Sec. Telle: If we don't go all the way with our appropriations committee, our partners here, in my view, that co-mingling will still find its way through that cardboard firewall.
▶ 1:42:56Chair Kennedy: All right. I'll be glad to read anything you want to send me. I just don't get it. Sound to me like it's a distinction without a difference. Job make that's my shortcoming. Senator murkowski? Nice to see you.
▶ 1:43:21Sen. Murkowski: Nice to see you. You drove into a media subject there so that's good. We had an opportunity to visit and I appreciate your good work, Mr. telle. We've talked a lot about the situation in juno with the glaciera and I've talked to you about the expertise that the mining community wrings to the table in drilling and operating work in their tunnels.
▶ 1:43:51Sen. Murkowski: They think that they've got some good ideas. From local miners in the area the examine common strait to you that they're able to help with a long-term solution in a way that saves time and money, is the corps willing to work with them?
▶ 1:44:08Sec. Telle: Senator, absolutely. I think the situation in juneau is an uncommon situation that's going to require an uncommon solution. We've talked about that extensively. You shared a technical paper that the miners there provided to us. I think you got it on the airplane and general kelly, who works for general graham is taking a look at that technical paper from a technical engineer perspective.
▶ 1:44:33Sec. Telle: We owe you an answer and will get it to you as soon as only possible. Nothing is off the table in protecting juneau in the short, medium and long term.
▶ 1:44:47Sen. Murkowski: I appreciate that it's going to require some collaborative thinking. Another topic is the port of nome. Everyone is seemingly in agreement that the port of nome is strategic value for the homeland, for economic security, for national current. Every time I bring it up with someone in the corps they reassure me the port of nome project is priority and yet you look at the budget, it's like where is it?
▶ 1:45:18Sen. Murkowski: Usually your priorities are reflected in your budget and then when you don't see meaningful investment in a project it sends the wrong message so we're seeing what our adversaries are doing on the russian side. They're not afraid to be building things up over there.
▶ 1:45:36Sen. Murkowski: You have committed to me before but I just need you to state clearly on the record in front of the academy today, a direct answer to this question -- is the port of nome a priority for the U.S. army corps?
▶ 1:45:51Sec. Telle: Senator, absolutely. It would be our nation's only arctic port. I've been there. It's a priority for me. Absolutely.
▶ 1:46:01Sen. Murkowski: We all know that the project is expensive but building up in the arctic is expensive and is always going to be. These projects are the end of the supply chain. You have short construction seasons, you have all kinds of reasons -- maybe they're excuses but it's the reality. This project is just getting more expensive because of of because it's being drawn out longer.
▶ 1:46:29Sen. Murkowski: And I don't know the extent to which the corps has actually explored some kind of regulatory relief if there is any or any other ways to lessen the burden when you have short construction seasons, you have the logistical challenges where you have to move everything up by ship and that's limited because you can't do that 365 days a year.
▶ 1:46:58Sen. Murkowski: When you have noncontiguous states like alaska, hawaii. But our challenge is different because we just don't have 365 days to, who. Again, like juneau, we have to be thinking a little bit differently about a major project like this so I'm going to task you and your team to really engage with perhaps some alternatives that we might be able to look to where we're talking about some type of
▶ 1:47:31Sen. Murkowski: Regulatory regulation.
▶ 1:47:33Sec. Telle: This is a critical project. We have to get it done. We have to get it done ahead of schedule and I think under bunts.
▶ 1:47:42Sen. Murkowski: All right, music to my east.
▶ 1:47:46Sec. Telle: I think building infrastructure on paperwork and the tools are there now, is going to enable us to think in new ways about how to cut through these challenges and you're right. Building in alaska is much doesn't than most other places in the united states of america. You have my commitment.
▶ 1:48:07Sen. Murkowski: I appreciate it. I recognize it's not you, you have a good team around you but I'm also concerned on about some of the teams working on this problem. I've heard some concerns back home about the corp's staffing levels. We've heard they've lost about 1/3 of its statue over the past two years so I worry.
▶ 1:48:33Sen. Murkowski: We have a big, big, big opportunities in front of us. The president has singled out alaska with this day one executive order unleashing alaska's extraordinary resource potential. That's the name of it.
▶ 1:48:53Sen. Murkowski: But with everything that is island in that, we have to have some level of corps engagement and eninvolvement so if we're really talking about a staff that is 1/3 down from where it was, I'm not sure that you-all can do what the president has tasked you to do. So I'm worried that we're going to see project timeline slip.
▶ 1:49:23Sen. Murkowski: You said you want to see nome come in ahead of schedule or on budget or even better but I'm worried that we're going to see timelines slip or we're going to be turning away projects as a result of staff capacity that is less than at quality.
▶ 1:49:39Sec. Telle: Senator, we'll let you be first to know if the staffing situation in alaska does anything to affect delivery of our projects. A piece of information I got from our southwest division which covers oklahoma, arkansas and parts of texas.
▶ 1:49:56Sec. Telle: They shared that their workforce division wide is down 1% but they're hid hitting their milestones 37% better than we were prior to that workforceerer duction. So I think it's all different. I think we're going to have to rely on our commanders to make sure we're getting that rights but delivery is the center of the focus and we have to deliver in alaska.
▶ 1:50:27Sen. Murkowski: We do and if you really are 1/3 down, I can't imagine the workload the folks are under and we push them hard and they do amazing things and you should be proud of your folks and team but we have to recognize that maybe they actually have a family they want to see. Mr. chairman, thank you for your endull generals and the opportunities to keep the hearing open. Thank you.
▶ 1:50:54Chair Kennedy: Thank you. I have one more question and then we'll wrap in up. You testified in front of the center of the environmental public works committee that the corps has $15 billion on your dollars. Is that right?
▶ 1:51:10Sec. Telle: Yes, sir.
▶ 1:51:11Chair Kennedy: Why is that? Is the money not obligated or -- I mean, or is it projects that are closed? I don't understand. Can you explain to me?
▶ 1:51:24Sec. Telle: Senator, that's correct. $46 million worth of funds on our books that are unobligated. Any other agency this would be unacceptable. $46 billion total, $15 billion that's more than 10 years old and quite often the funding that's aged and we're doing an analysis we'll be happy to share with you and your team.
▶ 1:51:52Sec. Telle: As soon as this hearing is over I've directed my team that we are to understand ever color of money within that $46 billion. Some of it is unobligated because we at some point in our past told congress that a particular projects was shovel ready. Congress responded to it and independent turned out the project was 10 to 20 years old and needed to be updated.
▶ 1:52:23Sec. Telle: So quite often this funding gets hung up in these types of round and around discussions. Sometimes the communities says we're not interested anymore. Sometimes the corps says we actually need more money to do the project. The goal we have about putting that $46 billion to use in its intended purpose or if it can't be, maybe putting it to use in a state like louisiana.
▶ 1:52:52Chair Kennedy: My point, Mr. secretary, is that at some points somebody's got to make a decision.
▶ 1:52:58Sec. Telle: That's right, sir.
▶ 1:53:00Chair Kennedy: And either close it out and put it somewhere else. Don't just leave it headaching around.
▶ 1:53:07Sec. Telle: You're absolutely right.
▶ 1:53:09Chair Kennedy: Did I understand you to say earlier that the corps doesn't know how many total projects snuff.
▶ 1:53:17Sec. Telle: That's right, sir.
▶ 1:53:19Chair Kennedy: And it could be between 1,000 and 1,000?
▶ 1:53:23Sec. Telle: I think it's probably closer to 10,000 but that's correct. But we don't know. We have a counter. We hired someone who's counting them today. There's a provision that says go look. If projects haven't each seeded funding, haven't had a pulse for 20 years, recommend them for authorization.
▶ 1:53:51Sec. Telle: But we don't know the total and that's unfortunate.
▶ 1:53:54Chair Kennedy: Thank you all for being here. I'll keep the hearing record open for one week. Committee members who would like to submit questions for the record need to do so by 5:00 p.m. Wednesday, may 27. And we appreciate your time. Thank you.
▶ 1:54:13Sec. Telle: Thank you, sir. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]