▶ 0:19:08>> how to ensure industry has the flexibility to deploy such technologies voluntarily and in adherence with commonsense principles. Over the past decade we have seen a rise in innovative technologies that require us to reimagine our transportation networks.
▶ 0:19:32Technology like autonomous vehicles, a solution to mobility and safety challenges are roadways to face for decades. They will provide mobility for seniors and those with disabilities while increasing the safety of our roads by drastically reducing the number of crashes often caused by human error. Davies could better reduce supply chains.
▶ 0:20:06We've also seen the development of trained inspection portals which could analyze images of trains as they moved throughout the country. Better understand defects that a person may not be able to detect as easily. By taking the strain away from maintenance workers. They could continue delivering essential goods. There is vehicle to everything.
▶ 0:20:40They could provide drivers with critical information as they travel. Like where construction crews are stationed on highways or where dangerous conditions exist potentially preventing tragic accidents. I will go into every technology that exists. I don't want to steal the thunder of our esteemed panelists.
▶ 0:21:00These are a few of the vast technologies contributing to safer and more efficient roads and tracks that may be discussed today. Many of which were only a pipe a short time ago. They were of course reference years ago in the jetsons or star trek. The technology ecosystem within transportation is fast.
▶ 0:21:35It requires flexibility. The federal government has done well in the past establishing pilot projects or exemptions to test the effectiveness of certain technologies. We are often slow at the federal level when it comes to expanding technologies past the pilot program stage.
▶ 0:21:56To fully road -- realize the benefits of these innovations we will need to provide certainty to the private sector and develop pathways to commercialization especially for proven technologies. Where we have seen success, we've also seen stagnation. Enacted legislation in roles and mandated technology in its lifecycle. Or set rules limited to no flexibilities.
▶ 0:22:28Over half a decade ago regulations were effectuated and required truck drivers to deploy warning triangles whenever they stopped their truck on the side of the road. For a time this rule made sense. As technology advanced alternative solutions were developed with the very same if not greater effectiveness.
▶ 0:22:53If there are avenues that allow for industry to provide the same or greater level of advocacy while increasing safety that I believe congress should remove the red tape prohibiting this innovation. I'm glad to hear the recent waiver issued by the department of transportation to allow for a warning beacon in certain instances eliminating the need for a driver to get out of the field especially in unsafe situations like low visibility.
▶ 0:23:24This is just one rule limiting the ingenuity of our private sector. Our adversaries won't wait for us to tie our shoes. If the technologies that will transform our transportation ecosystem are locked behind outdated rules or tied up in red tape other countries will develop these solutions first and the job revolution in manufacturing capacity will occur overseas rather than over here in michigan or indiana.
▶ 0:23:57Indiana is the most manufacturing intensive state and known as the crossroads of america. My state is ready to deliver solutions to meet the manufacturing capacity needs. I'm sure many of my colleagues while the same opportunities as well.
▶ 0:24:14As congress continues to contemplate legislation it's imperative that we protect the opportunities that will bolster the supply chains, increase safety, and deliver other workable transportation solutions to meet the needs of our economy. We've experienced panel covering several different modes of transportation economy today. Looking forward to your testimony.
▶ 0:24:41To better learn how we could lurk to advance our transportation ecosystem, secure american leadership in the industry and ensure our private sector has the flexibility it needs to develop and deploy these transformative technologies. Thank you again for being here today. I now recognize ranking member peters for his opening remarks.
▶ 0:25:08Sen. Peters: Thank you for being here today. Today we will be hearing from witnesses across sectors about how technology is transforming our transportation system from our vehicles to our roads to our railroads. I have long advocated for hardness and technological innovation, the challenges we face in the transportation sector.
▶ 0:25:37Sen. Peters: The infrastructure challenges have raised prices for everyday americans. For years I have said that congress cannot continue to stand on the sidelines when it comes to these av's. We must past a federal av framework, ensure that it is deployed responsibly.
▶ 0:26:05Sen. Peters: The development, manufacturing on the roads. They are only one piece of the technological puzzle. When I first came to the senate I helped with positive train control technology applied across the system to prevent collisions and high-speed train derailments. We saw firsthand how the importance of the detection technology in response.
▶ 0:26:42Sen. Peters: The federal funds to deploy aai preventing accidents before they happen. They get first responders to the scene a whole lot faster. We've also seen passenger and commercial vehicle advanced driver systems to help keep drivers and the public safe. There is so much more to do. As we talk today about the opportunities and challenges posed by transportation technology and the role congress should play.
▶ 0:27:12Sen. Peters: I want to hear from our witnesses for basic questions. How could we harness technology for economic growth? Technology should not just increase efficiency, it should increase the affordability for americans. How could this technology support and not replace the workforce.
▶ 0:27:34Sen. Peters: Technology has the potential to improve safety and productivity for american workers including america's truck drivers if we play our cards right. I believe we must develop and manufacture here in the united states. How do we ensure transportation technology doesn't compromise americans or U.S.
▶ 0:28:00Sen. Peters: National security? They have sensor states that collect and analyze huge amounts of data. It would be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. That's why I pushed too cute chinese vehicles and vehicle technology out of the united states. I want to hear from our witnesses about protecting exploitation by our adversaries.
▶ 0:28:30Sen. Peters: Fourth and most importantly, how could transportation technology be harnessed to save lives? Every year 40,000 americans die on our highways and nearly 1000 die on our railroads. These are just numbers. They are families that will never be full again. We must take action. We go technology assertively -- it is certainly part of that solution.
▶ 0:28:59Sen. Peters: We are coming together to address safety, crisis, insured technology is deployed on our transportation system in a way that benefits all americans. I look forward to contributing to this effort today. I yield back.
▶ 0:29:20Chair Young: I would like to introduce our witnesses today. The need for speed. A catchy title we have. The first witness is Mr. ian jeffries, Mr. jeffries is the president and chief executive officer of the association of american railroads.
▶ 0:29:40Chair Young: He has led aar since 2019 and has over a decade of experience in transportation policies including roles at federal agencies in the senate commerce committee.
▶ 0:29:55Mr. Jefferies: Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. Today's hearing comes at an important moment for american transportation. Next year freight railroads will mark the 200th anniversary. Being rapidly transformed by innovation.
▶ 0:30:18Mr. Jefferies: The modern rail network increasingly relies on ai assistance actions, machine vision, predictive analytics, real-time data. They help identify risks earlier and improve safety across the 140,000 mile network. And enhanced service reliability.
▶ 0:30:39Mr. Jefferies: The results are clear according to the federal railroad administration 2025 was the safest year on record across measures including derailment rate, equipment, accidents, importantly, employee injuries. This reflects a stain investment, employee expertise and continuous innovation. That leads to my first point. Technology is driving record safety gains and will be essential to the next move forward.
▶ 0:31:09Mr. Jefferies: The future depends on detecting issues before they become failures. We are seeing this across the industry. At the nsf, they collect real-time data while ai enabled tools identify defects earlier than traditional methods. With the rail temperature monitoring they have a fully data-driven inspection model.
▶ 0:31:33Mr. Jefferies: Csx uses advanced detection technology that provides gps, camera, radar, to monitor work zones to automatically stop equipment movement would risks are identified. There's ai powered imaging portals that scan railcars at track speed. Technology identified 75% of mechanical defects on that railroad.
▶ 0:32:02Mr. Jefferies: Union pacific uses machine vision and ai to analyze large data sets to tech patterns and protect maintenance needs months in advance allowing more preventative action. Other railroads are advancing similar missions. Automated inspection systems and ground penetrating radar. Optimal technology to detect early-stage defects. Across the industry technologies expanding the reach and decisions.
▶ 0:32:31Mr. Jefferies: These tools support, not replace railroad employees giving them better information to improve safety and operations. Policymakers consider technology , I ask they take a mode neutral approach to transportation technology. They are reshaping freight movement across trucking, maritime, logistics. Rail should not be treated differently because it's an established industry.
▶ 0:33:04Mr. Jefferies: Federal policy should encourage innovation based on measurable outcomes, not restrict outdated frameworks or preferences. Third, rail needs a regulatory system to keep pace with innovation. The structure was developed five decades ago and does not reflect modern technologies or operating practices.
▶ 0:33:28Mr. Jefferies: Railroads have more advanced ways to meet safety goals and they often prevent them from satisfying requirements. At the same time legislative proposals I could lock in legacy practices risking slowing down progress at a time when innovation is thriving. The safety improvements, affordability, policy must enable investment and support development of technologies, not discourage them.
▶ 0:34:00Mr. Jefferies: Not rigid inputs. It operates one of the world's most interconnected systems and invests roughly $23 billion annually. The question is whether policy will support that. This is about american competitiveness. Railroad is about 40% of long haul freight. These technologies being deployed today will determine how effectively we continue to do so in the future.
▶ 0:34:35Mr. Jefferies: We must allow innovation to lead the way. The choices made here will determine whether progress accelerates or stalls. Let's make sure it accelerates. Thank you I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:34:46Chair Young: Our second witness is Mr. chris spear, president and ceo of the american trucking association. The transportation of public policy adding both senior positions served as the assistant secretary of labor for policy at the U.S. department of labor. You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:35:18Mr. Spear: Thank you for the opportunity to testify about how congress could keep the trucking industry safe, competitive. They use the vast majority of our nation's freight, connects manufacturers to markets. Our industry is already investing billions in technology with a safe and modern framework.
▶ 0:35:48Mr. Spear: Innovation driven solutions will also help lower prices paid by consumers and businesses alike. We need congress support to start building a stronger supply chain. Congress should repeal the 12% federal tax on heavy-duty trucks , trailers, tractors. Century-old tax punishes the purchase of the very vehicles that come with the latest technologies.
▶ 0:36:18Mr. Spear: It discourages fleet turnover, gives all the equipment on the road longer. Congress has a ready solution for modern, clean, safe trucks act which remove these outdated barriers and accelerate deployment in a safer, cleaner, nation. Second, congress solidified the role.
▶ 0:36:47Mr. Spear: The primary authority over motor vehicle safety standards. The vehicle standards must remain national as well. When states or courts pose equipment standards beyond federal law, it creates a fragmented regulatory landscape for manufacturers, carriers, the supply chain. Congress should reaffirm that when men's, federal standards take precedence.
▶ 0:37:17Mr. Spear: That clarity is essential if companies are going to invest confidently in new technologies and deploy them at scale. Third, congress should establish intimate -- implement a federal framework. These systems hold real promise to enhance safety and strengthen america's economic competitiveness. Only if deployment is governed by clear national strategy.
▶ 0:37:46Mr. Spear: The build america 250 act would provide this guidance preventing a patchwork of rules and stifling innovation. Congress should support technology upgrades and operational improvements of federal agencies to combat the rise of theft and supply chain fraud.
▶ 0:38:05Mr. Spear: Criminal networks are exploiting outdated systems, weak identity controls and fragmented reporting structures to steal freight, legitimate carriers, undermine trust and supply chain. Congress can help close those gaps by supporting agency modernization, stronger registration integrity, better data sharing, advanced fraud detection tools.
▶ 0:38:32Mr. Spear: The safer transport act will provide important tools to help d.o.t. Detect and deter fraud. While the combating organized retail crime act will enhance the coordinated response. Fifth, congress should continue promoting proven technologies while refraining from mandating technologies that have not matured or demonstrated effectiveness in real-world trucking operations.
▶ 0:39:01Mr. Spear: Congress and regulators should distinguish between rules that are ready for broad deployment and those that are still requiring development, testing. Congress should support a resilient national approach positioning navigation and timing without disrupting the existing technologies and services that keep freight moving.
▶ 0:39:25Mr. Spear: Policymakers should reject proposals such as next nabs that would repurpose the lower 900 megabits band in ways that risk this to the millions of incumbent devices and systems already operating. Including technologies that support logistics transportation and critical infrastructure. These six steps will send a clear signal.
▶ 0:39:52Mr. Spear: Congress is ready to embrace technology today and tomorrow and help the trucking industry deliver greater safety and resilience and economic strength to the american people. I look forward to discussing these issues with the subcommittee and answering your questions.
▶ 0:40:07Chair Young: Thank you. Our next witness is Ms. laura chase. Miss chase has led I t america since august of 2021. She has two decades of experience implementing policy including roles at U.S. telecom, american trucking association, justice department, and the white house.
▶ 0:40:37Chair Young: You are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:40:39Ms. Chase: Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on how technological advances are strengthening our nation's transportation system. It comes at an important moment as congress has the transportation reauthorization. I ts america brings together the full ecosystem.
▶ 0:41:04Ms. Chase: Public agencies, private companies, research institution to advance the vision of a better future, one that is safe, smart, connected. Our focus is not on the deployment of technology for technology sake but ensuring innovation transfers into real-world outcomes. The transportation system has evolved.
▶ 0:41:30Ms. Chase: Today transportation is defined by digital capabilities. Sensors, software, communications networks are embedded throughout the transportation network creating a digital layer that allows operators to understand conditions in real time and respond more effectively. They are already delivering measurable results. Digital technologies must be treated as transportation elements.
▶ 0:42:00Ms. Chase: They are fundamental to how the system operates and how it delivers outcomes for the american public syrian you can't manage what you don't understand and digital infrastructure fundamentally improves our ability to understand the transportation system. From planning and building to operating and maintaining. Finding it at meaningful levels.
▶ 0:42:31Ms. Chase: They are improving safety. In bellevue washington delivering a 40% reduction in the intersections to digital learning systems increasing driver reaction distance and reducing harsh breaking to real-time technology in indiana keeping workers safe. Technologies are reducing costs.
▶ 0:42:58Ms. Chase: In detroit travel reliability was improved by 30% from advanced traffic management systems using real-time data. Tools that provide information and streamline waystation operations and improve logistics planning also allow crews to get to your door more efficiently.
▶ 0:43:20Ms. Chase: Ai enabled inspection systems provide engineers with predictive intelligence to better maintain our infrastructure saving agencies hundreds of thousands of dollars annually. State and local transportation agencies are often doing this in fragmented ways that limit them. To understand why that matters it is help when you consider a broader example. Think about the standalone computer.
▶ 0:43:48Ms. Chase: Processing information, storing data, this full potential was realized when it became connected. They transformed individual machines into communication, coordination, shared intelligence and scale.
▶ 0:44:06Ms. Chase: Intelligent technologies are already delivering meaningful benefits that individual benefits and corridors throughout individual states, when those systems are connected through national infrastructure they become something more powerful. The coordinated response of network without their innovation we risk a future where it remains uneven and fragmented limiting the safety and mobility of economic benefits these technologies could deliver.
▶ 0:44:36Ms. Chase: It is essential to unlocking the full value of innovation. A clear national approach to technology will provide direction, fragmentation and give public agencies and private partners alike greater confidence to invest. Establishing consistent national frameworks which is automated vehicles and system operability could ensure this is deployed safely and that scale across the country.
▶ 0:45:07Ms. Chase: Just as we provide funding flexibility could help agencies deploy solutions to evolve over time or deliver measurable results. America has an opportunity to lead the world in modernization. Digital solutions and infrastructure are poised to provide safety and operational benefits that could unlock the next chapter of america's transportation revolution.
▶ 0:45:32Ms. Chase: With funding strategies this congress could deliver to the american people the full safety efficiency and mobility benefits they offer. Thank you for the opportunity. I look forward to the questions.
▶ 0:45:47Chair Young: Mr. scandalia's with the international brotherhood of teamsters union that represents over one million workers across numerous industries in the united states and canada. Welcome, you are now recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:46:18Mr. Scandalia: Teamsters represent one point 3 million people in the united states, canada, puerto rico. For our entire history we evolved alongside new transportation technologies. Our namesake across the country in the first ever transcontinental shipment of goods by truck was conducted by a team of teamster drivers.
▶ 0:46:45Mr. Scandalia: At the core of our mission we believe the tool available to the american worker to best navigate the impacts is a collective-bargaining. Every day we use these cools -- tools in a manner that ultimately benefits members. We do not oppose innovation. We welcome the optional technologies like automatic emergency breaking and deployment of positive train control.
▶ 0:47:15Mr. Scandalia: We will continue to work with congress, regulators, employers, the technology to improve working conditions. Today, autonomous vehicles present enormous challenges. They have failed to advance the framework that is so unique requirement operating in an thomas vehicle -- autonomous vehicle, continuing to permit the unfettered and unregulated obligation is a no-win
▶ 0:47:47Mr. Scandalia: Situation. Continue to call congress and prioritize its safety, workforce, and goes beyond self-serve regimes. We also have the economic of unregulated autonomous vehicles. Driving a truck is the single most common occupation in the united states. A top 10 occupational role in most states.
▶ 0:48:14Mr. Scandalia: Generally increasing the transportation technologies at risk by bad actors and foreign adversaries. They believe in components from china is now being imported into the united states and chinese companies to open shop should never receive a penny of transportation dollars and congress must prohibit any scenario where a person outside this country employs a vehicle on our roads.
▶ 0:48:41Mr. Scandalia: We are proud to represent the locomotive of brotherhood engineers. As two of the country's oldest unions are members have adapted to extraordinary change. However it is essential to congress to appreciate the tools that are supplemental.
▶ 0:49:00Mr. Scandalia: Geometry measurement systems also known as cti has advanced sensors, lasers, identifying track defects that may not be visible. These systems are identifying certain regulatory defects at all. We don't oppose this technology.
▶ 0:49:23Mr. Scandalia: Combine this technology, conducted on twice a week basis as commonly prescribed in the regulations. Locomotive engineers also see massive changes within the last 15 years including the use of ptc as well as energy management systems. These technologies have value if used properly.
▶ 0:49:50Mr. Scandalia: Increasingly we are seeing usage that takes away substantial decision-making for up to 95%. These extensive periods of time who may in turn be unprepared and have to reassume control of the scenario when the technology fails. Minimum times could combat these effects.
▶ 0:50:15Mr. Scandalia: Further, they continue to sound the alarm on generally operated by engineers. These operations carry risk already and are increasingly being used.
▶ 0:50:34Mr. Scandalia: Across all modes including those subject to the subcommittee, they support strong regulations, innovation, regulation, the workforce need not be in conflict with each other. We appreciate the opportunity to testify today.
▶ 0:50:54Chair Young: Thank you. Before we dive into a number of questions I'd like to recognize the ranking member of this committee.
▶ 0:51:03Sen. Cantwell: Thank you, I will be brief. I look forward to the questions that our colleagues are asking. I was just visited by the city of bellevue. They had some interesting technology success using ai related to responding to urgencies and law enforcement.
▶ 0:51:25Sen. Cantwell: We will share that with the committee and I think that is something that if we could improve on our transportation infrastructure in that way is something to consider.
▶ 0:51:36Chair Young: I will begin with miss chase, thank you for your testimony. I appreciate you discussing how our transportation system has evolved over time and we should be treating technology is core transportation infrastructure in the united states. It is not just the conventional stuff. It is data and all the rest of it.
▶ 0:52:01Chair Young: You mentioned in the written testimony, you just alluded to it that you have the need for federal leadership to scale these technologies that will reduce travel times, crash rates, improve asset management on our infrastructure projects. What happens of the federal government doesn't develop national leadership.
▶ 0:52:24Chair Young: What signal and what happens to our globally competitive position especially as china looks to surge ahead in the deployment of some of these technologies?
▶ 0:52:40Miss Chase: Thank you, it is a very important question. What would happen is we will continue to see uneven deployments across the country that really struggle to deliver the systemwide benefits that they can to the american public. Right now you have a situation where the private sector is actually asking for that unified national marketplace.
▶ 0:53:07Miss Chase: If you don't create that federal leadership and don't create that national approach the private sector is not going to invest significant capital into the transportation system. If you think about it it is a rational decision to go to the market where you have a new approach in the larger market share. The larger outcome we do not want to see happen is for our developing technologies right here in america and then deploy those technologies overseas.
▶ 0:53:38Miss Chase: Because they have a larger marketplace that could be addressed. It is really critical that we have federal leadership from congress that could create as I call it a natural approach to challenges.
▶ 0:53:56Miss Chase: So that the private sector sees it is worth it to invest here and that there is a long-term roi and that the public sector could have confidence in these technologies.
▶ 0:54:09Chair Young: Thank you my reference to china is I'm not trying to get people excited. I'm not trying to leverage a geopolitical competition into this narrow subset of policy.
▶ 0:54:31Chair Young: This could impact over time of growth which in turn allows us to fund our way of life including our military. That is the long game. We need to be using this moment to optimize our system at every level including insuring our laws and rules allow for the integration of the best in class technology so we could outcompete anyone. That is what I was alluding to.
▶ 0:55:02Chair Young: What we discussed the integration adoption of these technologies, it is important we contemplate ways to secure the infrastructure as well from all kinds of threats. Your testimony discusses the tangential benefits of federal leadership and unlocking a scalable marketplace for advanced tech and transportation infrastructure. One of these benefits is increased cybersecurity.
▶ 0:55:32Chair Young: Could you elaborate on how this leadership could build stronger cyber safeguards and separately how we could ensure our cybersecurity technologies like firewalls in the underlying connectivity that powers cloud software tools? In 10 words or less?
▶ 0:55:55Ms. Chase: If we are establishing leadership, we are developing the innovative cyber tools right here at home. That federal leadership is important in ensuring we secure these technologies that we absolutely have a priority for our members as well and very quickly right now what agencies and companies are doing to ensure these technologies is following the guidelines with
▶ 0:56:28Ms. Chase: Protocols. Secure by design principles and all of those best in class practices when it comes to cybersecurity. It is important we create the marketplace to develop right here in america.
▶ 0:56:42Chair Young: By way of follow-up after this hearing I have an opportunity to unpack the cybersecurity best practices you just alluded to. If you see a role for congress in ensuring we are doing what we need to do, please after this hearing let me know, let my staff know and we will get to work.
▶ 0:57:09Sen. Peters: Thank you. I know many of us share a commitment to moving the ball forward on a framework for autonomous vehicles including autonomous commercial vehicles. Do you believe a legislative av framework should include commercial vehicles. Could you expand on why that's important for your members and how the trucking industry would benefit from guidance?
▶ 0:57:44Mr. Spear: I would go so far to say trucks are business to business. If you want to things that drive technology, this is what design systems around moving more efficiently or safely, environmentally framework -- friendly, we only have half a
▶ 0:58:15Mr. Spear: Dozen compared to a couple dozen. We have a lot more ability to put technology platforms in place, move more safely, more environmentally friendly. I think having trucks equal with passenger vehicles if not leaving this platform would be appropriate.
▶ 0:58:38Sen. Peters: You represent a lot of truck drivers. The views of our men and women deployed in these industries are incredibly important to get their viewpoints. You mentioned in your opening testimony ideas related to what you would see.
▶ 0:58:58Sen. Peters: We would love to have you expand what you think needs to be done addressing the concerns with men and women who work in these industries. >> we are thinking about these and three planks, one is the market standards, filtering out the vehicle to be safe before it hits the road.
▶ 0:59:28Sen. Peters: The second piece is substantial oversight tools to make sure that once there are deployments of these vehicles, the federal motor carrier has an idea and ability to take action and enforcement on deployments.
▶ 0:59:51Sen. Peters: They do see displacement of workers that we develop to address workforce concerns both as that relates to workers whose jobs may change, a mechanic that works on a diesel engine. It will work on -- inherently on autonomous vehicles. Similarly if there are to be displacements of drivers, what does the future look like for them?
▶ 1:00:20Sen. Peters: It's important congress gets in front of this instead of waiting.
▶ 1:00:25Sen. Peters: I believe there are many vehicle technologies that certainly have the ability to save lives. As regulators we must do what we can to harness the potential. That is why I introduced the vehicle safety research act with chair young to accelerate systems, their research and development.
▶ 1:00:53Sen. Peters: It is also why last week I introduce the vehicle safety testing act so that they could be perfected and employed quickly. That is why I also thought to protect auto safety from the deployment of connected vehicle technology and why I am chair young helped push together the department of transportation.
▶ 1:01:21Sen. Peters: If you could give this committee some examples of deployments and tell the committee why you believe -- what are the biggest barriers to the broader deployment of these technologies?
▶ 1:01:36Ms. Chace: Thank you for the question and your ongoing support. There are several in the country growing. Atlanta, georgia has the largest department in the country extending out of the port of savannah. It has been very successful. Arizona has a large supply. Salt lake city is coordinating with colorado and wyoming. Houston, texas, those last three are all funded by dot grants.
▶ 1:02:09Ms. Chace: There are several in michigan and detroit seeing the deployment this week. On some of the examples of what this is providing, emergency vehicle reaction, pedestrian detection and alerting. Weather warnings. There's actually a huge range of allocations that are being leveraged.
▶ 1:02:40Ms. Chace: We are also seeing some network-based solutions. The biggest barrier is consistent across all technology areas and is consistent with my core message that we need to start treating technology as a core element of our transportation ecosystem.
▶ 1:03:01Ms. Chace: That ties into making sure federal transportation funding levels remain stable and that is clearly prioritized with these technologies should be deployed in scale throughout the system. Ensuring we have dedicated funding in ensuring we are incorporating technology, integrating it into the full lifecycle of projects. Also broader technology deployments across the country.
▶ 1:03:30Chair Young: Senator moreno, you are now recognized.
▶ 1:03:36Sen. Moreno: Let's dig into what you talked about in your opening statement. How much exactly of the things that american consumers by do they get through trucks? >> just over 80%, fugue -- food, fuel, groceries, you name it.
▶ 1:04:03Sen. Moreno: >> if cost for transportation companies rise dramatically, what is the impact on household goods?
▶ 1:04:14Mr. Spear: The price of fuel, inflation, all those things get transported. We are the link between that. What you pay is reflected in all of those factors. Prices definitely go up. We pass on some of those costs but not all of them.
▶ 1:04:41Sen. Moreno: Our goals to be to make it less expensive, do you agree?
▶ 1:04:46Mr. Spear: Always.
▶ 1:04:48Sen. Moreno: That would've mandated electric semi's, how many were sold this year? I will give you the answer, it is 0.2%. Just so we are clear, not 2%, 0.2%. Of all the semi sold in the united states, 0.2% were electric. What would the advanced car and truck rule required to us have been selling in america?
▶ 1:05:22Mr. Spear: Would've transformed us come 2030.
▶ 1:05:28Sen. Moreno: What would the percentage required by law have been to have sold as electric semi's.
▶ 1:05:36Mr. Spear: 10% would've been about 3.5 million trucks.
▶ 1:05:44Sen. Moreno: Would that have cost the consumer's money?
▶ 1:05:46Mr. Spear: It's about 3.5 times the cost of a new diesel. 60 trucks in 1980 eight admitted, we have come that far. To push us towards an electric platform with infrastructure that doesn't exist would've been horrendous in terms of cost.
▶ 1:06:08Sen. Moreno: Is a hyperbolic to say it would've been catastrophic for the economy? There wasn't a single democrat that wanted to get rid of that rule. I want to absolutely give props to our chairman for the bill that he has. Could you talk about again a little bit more detail what that means? What is the average age of the semi on the road today?
▶ 1:06:37Mr. Spear: About 2010.
▶ 1:06:43Sen. Moreno: If you really want to improve fuel economy and safety you want people driving a newer fleet, is that accurate?
▶ 1:06:51Mr. Spear: Absolutely. You want to incentivize the procurement of new equipment. $6,400 per trailer. This is money that should go in the hands of drivers.
▶ 1:07:08Sen. Moreno: It incentivizes people to buy new or semi's. From 2010 through 2013 or 14 you're are talking about dramatically better safety, this law was one that was passed a
▶ 1:07:19Few Years Ago Mr. Spear: About the time of the titanic sinking. The highest federal access tasks -- tax, it is only one that supported trench warfare that exist today.
▶ 1:07:40Sen. Burr: I know it was supposed to be a temporary tax. Here we are. We need to get senator young's bill across the finish line. We need to lower the cost to transportation companies.
▶ 1:07:58Mr. Spear: This is a jobs game. If this is a union job issue.
▶ 1:08:08Sen. Moreno: You must be talking about the brand-new kenworth. The other one is -- I don't want you to be ignored, the connected security act. I applaud the ranking member, senator peters has been after this topic for a long time. Making sure we don't allow chinese vehicles into this market.
▶ 1:08:34Sen. Moreno: Talk about from your perspective, what could go wrong by having a company that is a chinese defense contractor allowed to sell cars in the united states that transmit high definition photos, videos, location back to the chinese communist party.
▶ 1:08:53Ms. Chace: We fully agree with your concern and your approach. We were heavily involved in the ruling. And understanding that we are all aligned in the need for budget. Ensuring that we have the domestic and allied supply chains to do so. The risk goes to data privacy and the national security.
▶ 1:09:25Ms. Chace: We have to make sure we are protecting american consumers data, national security assets and that it is american made technology in these vehicles that are driving.
▶ 1:09:39Chair Young: Thank you for your help on the tax repeal. We will get that done. Mr. kim you are now recognized.
▶ 1:09:49Sen. Kim: I wanted to start with you, I wanted to make sure I level set here on the numbers. I'm seeing in terms of annual concerns that we have about 1200 derailments, 1600 train accidents annually, about 1000 fatalities, does that mesh with your understanding?
▶ 1:10:13Mr. Jefferies: When you talk about specific derailments I think there are I think of you the exact number. About 70% of those are kicked occur within yards. About 20% of those occur on the mainline.
▶ 1:10:34Mr. Jefferies: When you think about 1000 deaths on the railroads, 95% of those are due to two issues, trespassers and green crossing collisions. We are proud of the fact that 2025 was the lowest employee injury rate in the 99 year history.
▶ 1:10:55Sen. Kim: I'm glad to see that progress as well. We could agree there's more work to be done.
▶ 1:11:02Mr. Jefferies: Until we are at zero.
▶ 1:11:06Senator Kim: All of us in this room embrace technology and want to make sure we are pushing this . As we are making decisions here, what are some of the limitations of this type of technology in terms of it is not able to identify things we want to make sure we are addressing other tools.
▶ 1:11:27Mr. Jefferies: Let's think about the regulation on the books right now it requires inspections of individuals walking on the tracks. After years of waiver programs by those who deployed autonomous track inspection in lieu of certain manual inspections. Right now they are twice a week.
▶ 1:11:54Mr. Jefferies: The pilot programs in place over several years reduce that to once every two weeks. They could identify 200% higher defects. During those pilot programs the safety outcomes were dramatic. Significantly higher safety result that occurred.
▶ 1:12:14Mr. Jefferies: When you look at what the regulation that is being contemplated right now is reducing visual inspections to once per week and letting uti continuously inspect that track. It is significantly more regular us than what is on the regulations in the books. If you don't hit that you have to go back to the old ways.
▶ 1:12:42Sen. Kim: I wanted to get another perspective. In your statement you are saying some of these systems are only capable of identifying some more all the types of regulatory defects. Could you go into a little bit more? What would be missing from just doing this or mostly relying on the tech?
▶ 1:13:07Sen. Kim: >> they require inspections to look at 23 total defect categories. They are primarily looking at issues that encompass about six of those. We are not surprised that it used well will increase safety. As I said we called for it to be mandatory.
▶ 1:13:30Sen. Kim: With that said given the state of its capabilities at this hour what it can and cannot do, we believe strongly that the best way to deploy this technology is in keeping with the mandated inspections.
▶ 1:13:51Sen. Kim: What he put into his testimony here that this technology is incapable of identifying issues with malice, railway or, conditions, switch components, the right of way, is that correct?
▶ 1:14:06Mr. Jefferies: It is an indicator of overall track health. I don't disagree there are things that it does not detect for example vegetation growth, etc. That's why we think the balance is right to still have once a week individuals walking the track looking for those very things.
▶ 1:14:27Mr. Jefferies: We have the lowest number of track related incidents in the industry's history largely due to a broader deployment of new technologies that could identify more defects.
▶ 1:14:40Sen. Kim: I don't disagree progress is being made. We want to look our constituency in the eye and guarantee that -- that was out what we to get to, we would be potentially taking tools off the table at this important point. I agree with you, let's let the data decide and guide our decisions.
▶ 1:15:11Sen. Kim: I just don't see the data right now. I will yield back.
▶ 1:15:15Chair Young: Ms. lummis, you are not recognized.
▶ 1:15:21Sen. Lummis: Thank you concert chairman, panel. I want to start with chris spear. Welcome. As you know, I'm a strong advocate for autonomous vehicles including the autonomous vehicle acceleration act because I think it's a tool that can help it of industry, and I look at it as a person, either in a state where an ambulance driver was killed by an illegal trucker who could not read signs.
▶ 1:15:53Sen. Lummis: We had another incident, multiple casualties, multiple deaths in the I-80 tunnel by green river, wyoming, again caused by an illegal driving an 18 wheeler. That was an absolutely horrific, and that the fire in a tunnel that killed multiple people.
▶ 1:16:12Sen. Lummis: What outdated requirements are holding back safe autonomous trucking deployment, and what standards should congress consider to ensure those deployments include safety, strength and supply chain efficiency, and benefit the trucking workforce?
▶ 1:16:29Mr. Spear: I see two things in this. For autonomous vehicles, you currently have 26 states that have permissive environments for this type of technology. We don't stop at state lines. We go from green river right into salt lake. Every truck, every day. We need a national framework. If you are going to invest in this technology, grow it nationally, not by state, or we are conceding this to china. They will take this technology, run with it, and we will be reacting to that.
▶ 1:17:01Mr. Spear: It is that simple. That is a performance-based approach, it's about innovation, technology solving solutions. Compare it to phones. If we had that in place right now, we would still be working on blackberries. Everywhere else on everywhere else in the world would have a iphone or android. This will allow the agencies to work with tech solutions that will constantly evolve year over year and make certain that this platform is sound.
▶ 1:17:33Mr. Spear: The second piece of it that you mentioned on the illegal drivers, look at the saber act that chairman young has. It is enabling the dot to do the right things, going after these criminals that shouldn't be on the road in the first place. A lot of these companies are chameleon carriers, they are bad actors, they get busted, they drop off the registry and reregistering another name. They replaced this last month with a system called modus.
▶ 1:18:03Mr. Spear: When it gets up and running, it will rid a lot of the bad actors that we are seeing. English-language proficiency, testing committees are done in all states to have a baseline standard in every state to make sure that when you get a cdl, you have met the minimum criteria which should be several weeks of training, not two days over the internet. I applied what they are doing. I want to see it made permanent. I love the bill you have. I think that will solve the problem.
▶ 1:18:30Sen. Lummis: Thank you for that, Mr. young. Ms. chace, I want to ask you some questions about digital twins and permitting reform. It looks like digital twins already exist, am I correct?
▶ 1:18:45Ms. Chace: Yes.
▶ 1:18:47Sen. Lummis: So what is preventing the broader adoption across federal info structure reviews and permitting processes, and what should congress do to ensure agencies are able to review digital twins to deliver projects faster, cheaper?
▶ 1:19:04Ms. Chace: Thank you, senator, for the question. You are really referencing this generational shift from paper plans and the use of 2d plans to 3d digital twins, digital documents. Congress can do a couple of things in this instance. Congress should encourage the use of digital technologies to support product delivery.
▶ 1:19:29Ms. Chace: This can be through specific eligibility criteria on rants and funding programs, guidance from U.S. dot, the abc grant program is a great initiative in this area that has incentivized digital delivery. To your point, we should encourage recipients of funds to utilize digital platforms when carrying out environmental reviews. We have to be able to submit those review documents digitally and for the agencies to accept them digitally.
▶ 1:19:59Ms. Chace: Ultimately, but we believe congress can do is consistent with my testimony and whole, which is treating technology as a core element of technology across all the various lifecycles of technology, product delivery, construction, operations, maintenance, is critical to ensuring that we actually need this digital transformation a conference of white.
▶ 1:20:21Sen. Lummis: Thank you. Mr. chairman, permission to ask one more.
▶ 1:20:24Chair Young: Please proceed.
▶ 1:20:26Sen. Lummis: Mr. jefferies, can you explain how mandates like the two man crew retirement are more strict high hazard trained technicians could affect the movement of say wyoming coal or other american energy products by rail?
▶ 1:20:45Mr. Jeffries: It leads to a bare question of locking in current operating requirements without any evidence to prove those requirements result in a hurry safety outcome. That is what we should be focused on, safety outcomes, period.
▶ 1:20:59Mr. Jeffries: When you luck and current ways of doing things or you add new requirements that cannot be justified, the result is you undermine the ability for the network to remain fluid, you reduce service, increase congestion all without a positive safety outcome. We cannot draw a line to a direct positive safety outcome, we should not be doing things.
▶ 1:21:22Mr. Jeffries: That is why so many groups outside the railroads, such as the coal industry, ag industry, have expressed serious concerns about these proposals.
▶ 1:21:31Chair Young: Thank you, senator lummis. Mr. luján, you are recognized.
▶ 1:21:38Sen. Lujan: Mr. jefferies, would you find it acceptable if 10,000 lives were lost in a year in america with train crashes?
▶ 1:21:48Mr. Jeffries: Absolutely not.
▶ 1:21:51Mr. Spear: Absolutely not.
▶ 1:21:53Ms. Chace: No, senator.
▶ 1:21:55Mr. Scandaglia: No, senator. >> would you find it acceptable if 10,000 lives were lost on airline crashes every year? >> no. >> do you find it acceptable that in america we lose 10,000 lives a year in car crashes based on dwi? >> absolutely not. >> no.
▶ 1:22:22Sen. Lujan: I know department trepidation is not here today. We are here to talk about technology and vehicles. You all support technological advances?
▶ 1:22:34Mr. Jeffries: Yes, indeed.
▶ 1:22:36Mr. Spear: Absolutely.
▶ 1:22:38Ms. Chace: Yes.
▶ 1:22:40Sen. Lujan: One of my colleagues was talking about autonomous vehicles. That takes technology. There are investments, companies that hold patents. They are tier one suppliers in the automotive space that hold patents in this area. The market is working because there are signals to the market to say make investments in this space. I also agree with one of my colleagues who is here today, when there is sunken cost and fail technology out there that is not doing a damn thing.
▶ 1:23:11Sen. Lujan: There is one technology that has gotten appropriation from congress, millions of dollars from the auto industry, and they are still operating out of a little garage in virginia if I'm not mistaken, and they have not come up with a solution. All of my colleagues don't agree with me when I say we should stop drunk driving deaths and crashes in america. We have autonomous vehicles, self driving taxis, all kinds of incredible tools out there. I have been in cars that do this.
▶ 1:23:42Sen. Lujan: In europe, there are cars being sold to those consumers already say, if there is some impaired problems here, we are going to warn you, slow you down. If you have a heart attack, stroke, we are not going to let you kill someone else. Everyone of us has a phone in our pockets, most of us do, that has gps in it, tells you which way you are going, which way you shouldn't go.
▶ 1:24:08Sen. Lujan: When I'm on my mountain bike, my phone tells me if I'm going down a wrong trail that I shouldn't be going down. I don't understand why this is so hard for vehicles. My colleagues know in the early 1990's, I was hit head-on by a drunk driver less than half a mile from my house and I walked away from the damn thing. Not all of my constituents can say that. I have been to a lot of funerals. Other colleagues have been, as well.
▶ 1:24:40Sen. Lujan: It might make things a little more expensive to purchase a vehicle, but what happens if there is technology in a car that saves your kid? Saves your mom or dad. Save your brother or sister. We can do that in america today.
▶ 1:25:04Sen. Lujan: I get this hearing, there is no one here on the panel with cars and car safety, from nhtsa, department of transportation. We have had witness after witness from the department of transportation and nhtsa say that we are going to do something. They just issued a report that set the technology is not ready. If there were 10,000 americans dying on an airplane every year, you bet your life that they would come up with technology to save them.
▶ 1:25:34Sen. Lujan: It was happening on trains, you know they would move mountains to save lives. But if you are I get killed on a paved road because we are driving a car, I guess we really don't matter.
▶ 1:25:49Sen. Lujan: I am just beside myself that one of my colleagues out of texas and the house of representatives just passed an amendment that said his constituents, he doesn't really give a shit about them if they get killed because someone has been drinking or they are impaired on the roads in texas. In the mexico, we care about people. I certainly hope we can find a way to get this done. If my calling someone an objection or another, let's talk about it.
▶ 1:26:19Sen. Lujan: A bunch of folks saying they will steal privacy from you. What about the autonomous cars, what about the airplanes, rails? That is not what this is about. Let's find a way in america where we can drive innovation and save people's lives. I don't know why this is so hard. I am beside myself this morning as we come together. I just recently read that report. Democrat, republican, doesn't matter, all a smart step in this room, let's find a way to do something.
▶ 1:26:49Sen. Lujan: I worked on this with rick scott. Rick scott? A liberal. There is a way to work together. If someone gets behind a wheel that shouldn't be, that there is a way to keep them alive for their loved ones, and anyone they might meet on the drive to wherever they are headed. I certainly hope we can do that, Mr. chairman. I'm open to ideas.
▶ 1:27:17Sen. Lujan: I want to thank the mothers against drunk driving that have led the effort across america, and every survivor of an impaired crash that has been willing to give their voices. This is, thank you for the work that she has been doing with madd. I hope to god we can find a way past differences, and whoever the next administration is -- because this administration is not going to do it. The biden administration didn't get it across the finish line.
▶ 1:27:44Sen. Lujan: Whoever the next administration is, let's find a way to bring people together and save people's lives. They appreciate the time, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:27:51Chair Young: Mr. spear, thank you for your words throughout this hearing in support of, for your collaboration on repeal of the federal excise tax. My legislation, modern and clean and safe trucks act. I think this legislation is notable in this hearing because the subtitle of the hearing is how technological advances are driving transportation innovation.
▶ 1:28:21Chair Young: I would like you to unpack for those that are watching this hearing, how passing this legislation could actually better incentivize investments in the most technologically advanced vehicles.
▶ 1:28:33Mr. Spear: I think the fet repeal is a no-brainer. The fact is, it will put the newest, latest, greatest technology on the roads, will replace those 2010's that senator moreno talked about. The california rules that are going to electrify us, if they just focused on getting the 2010 or older trucks off the roads in california, they would have accidentally reduced emissions.
▶ 1:29:02Mr. Spear: They can do that right now without turning on electricity which they don't have, turning our industry into an electric freight mover. This was something that we pointed out year, the fet are good for safety, good for environment, good for union jobs. There is something in this for everybody.
▶ 1:29:25Mr. Spear: Candidly, putting money in our industry's pockets, 24,000 dollars per truck, 6400 per trailer, that is money that can be invested in other things. Driver pay, training. Beyond that, but in that newer equipment out there is good for everybody.
▶ 1:29:40Chair Young: For innovation. The newest equipment with the latest safety upgrades with the latest performance upgrades, efficiency tools, on and on. Thank you for your help on that. I'm going to turn to Mr. jefferies. You alluded earlier to challenges with deployment of latest technologies in the rail sector.
▶ 1:30:08Chair Young: How should performance-based regulations look across a multitude of different technologies?
▶ 1:30:14Mr. Jeffries: Thank you for the question. All of this talk about innovation and automation is fantastic. Autonomous trucks, autonomous cars. We operate on a regulatory structure that was developed in the early 1970's. Very prescriptive, very manual based. Like every other industry out there, we have advanced dramatically when it comes to technological deployment, innovative new tools come etc. That have advanced safety outcomes, service outcomes, efficiency outcomes.
▶ 1:30:47Mr. Jeffries: Other agencies in the d.o.t. Have embraced performance-based regulations, whether the faa, fhwa, fta. Fra, for some reason, has not come around to that concept. When we are talking about automation, autonomous trucks, reading articles about driverless trucks delivering dr pepper and pepsi to stores in texas today, operating on the interstates, which I do not begrudge at all. I think it's fantastic.
▶ 1:31:17Mr. Jeffries: I just think we should be operating on a neutral tech policy that drives outcomes versus inputs. Tell me where you want us to be. Tell me the outcome we need to achieve, and let us find the best that there.
▶ 1:31:29Chair Young: Janice. You there? All of our witnesses were listening to your last statement. Let's focus on outcomes, not on process. Mr. spear, do you agree with that approach?
▶ 1:31:41Mr. Spear: Absolutely. You need a technology-based system. Let's let it breed unbridled and not prescribe everything.
▶ 1:31:50Chair Young: Ms. chace, do you agree with that approach?
▶ 1:31:53Ms. Chace: Absolutely agree.
▶ 1:31:55Chair Young: Mr. scandaglia, do you agree with that approach?
▶ 1:31:58Mr. Scandaglia: Not inherently, no.
▶ 1:32:01Chair Young: Why is that?
▶ 1:32:03Mr. Scandaglia: When you talk about performance-based standards on the part of that conversation is will the method of compliance result in the outcome we have prescribed? Frankly, if you speak to our members --
▶ 1:32:15Chair Young: If you judge based on outcomes especially over time, wouldn't that address that concern? You might have some high-profile and politically-resident examples of suboptimal outcomes along the way, even those involving safety. Over time, if you are improving, more or less, saving more lives, isn't that how you would measure success of a regime or not? That utilitarian approach.
▶ 1:32:48Chair Young: Not one that we should be adopting.
▶ 1:32:49Mr. Scandaglia: If we are talking broadly in the concept of saving lives, that is obviously something we all support. When we talk more specifically about the outcome of a specific regulation, track inspection, part of our concern inherently, too, if we move entirely to a performance-based system, we are relying on the information and data provided. Speaking candidly, my members don't trust it.
▶ 1:33:19Chair Young: Give me an example of that information that the regulated entity is operating under. I thought this is how we have to judge on the current regime regardless in the absence of outcome based performance measure.
▶ 1:33:39Mr. Scandaglia: The concern actually is not specific to either performance-based or existing. When we are looking at the way industry has provided data to regulators, and the character regions that can be made as a result of that data, frequently, that is not aligned with our members experience on the job.
▶ 1:34:03Mr. Scandaglia: I would offer to any member of this committee, if you'd like to go out and meet the railroaders I represent and ask them, do they agree that we are in an era of unprecedented safety? They will tell you no to a man or woman. I offer that to any senator who would like to do that.
▶ 1:34:23Chair Young: I think that is data, too. That should, of course, be a part of what we are balancing. Perhaps we capture that data. But in the end, it becomes a debate over what outcomes you are looking at. If your soul outcome is your membership, which perspectives are shaped by where you sit. Maybe yours is.
▶ 1:34:53Chair Young: But societally, most americans would say that we should look at a broader array of data, rather than just member feedback.
▶ 1:35:00Mr. Scandaglia: We wouldn't disagree there either.
▶ 1:35:03Chair Young: Thank you for indulging me, everyone, on that. Senator cruz is recognized for questions.
▶ 1:35:11Sen. Cruz: Take you for holding this hearing. Mr. spear, let's start with you. You said the integration of av trucks would mean "an evolution, not elimination of the job." I suspect many people will find that statement surprising or even contradictory since they assume that an av truck wouldn't have a driver sitting in it. Mr.
▶ 1:35:35Sen. Cruz: Spear, please explain what you mean when you say av trucks will bring in evolution, not an elimination of the trucking industry.
▶ 1:35:42Mr. Spear: I don't think it's a generality. We look at things from a number of viewpoints. From an economic point, we are moving 11.4 billion tons a year, 73% of everything moved in freight is moved by truck. Everything you drink, eat, wear, came off a truck.
▶ 1:36:03Mr. Spear: Over the next 10 years, just to keep pace with current economic growth in this country, we have to move another 2.7 billion tons of freight. I need more drivers, need more trucks, and I need innovation. I need all of it. Running a ton levels one through four which still require a driver, makes drivers smarter, technicians smarter. They will all benefit from this.
▶ 1:36:32Mr. Spear: You will probably see some level five from texas to southern california. It may not be ready for prime time yet, but in addition to more drivers, technicians, more inspectors, dispatchers, trainers, we are going to hire more people with this technology just to keep pace with current economic growth. I look at this as a win-win all across the board.
▶ 1:36:52Sen. Cruz: Mr. scandaglia, what do the teamsters think about av trucks?
▶ 1:37:02Mr. Scandaglia: I would like to kind of jump off from her Mr. spear let off. I don't think we deserve I don't think we des disagree with the notion that we will see an influx of driverless trucks in every fleet across america, not going to see hundreds of thousands of people lose their job next week. Anyone that is rational about that can agree.
▶ 1:37:27Mr. Scandaglia: Where we disagree somewhat is if this technology does hit prime time, whatever point that may be, we are concerned that we are not going to talk about, we are just going to automate for whatever the delta for whatever the driver shortage may be, or we are just going to automate in this nice strip of road for your home state.
▶ 1:37:48Mr. Scandaglia: I think it is a historic to suggest that employers at some point in time will have the ability to eliminate their labor cost in totality or in large part, and decide not to do it. That is what concerns me.
▶ 1:38:01Sen. Cruz: I very much hope this committee will move a surface transportation bill this year. We are hard at work at it. One of the important elements of that bill I hope will be an av tag. Av is probably the most important automotive trucking innovation we are facing. We had initially discussed focusing that av title on automobiles monitor trucks.
▶ 1:38:33Sen. Cruz: -- rather than trucks. I have since been told of the teamsters have expressed a strong desire that trucks be included in any av title. Is that right? Can you articulate your views?
▶ 1:38:43Mr. Scandaglia: That is absolutely correct. At one point in time, when this seemed like a magical fairytale, we were on interested in the conversation. I don't think that's a conversation we can rationally have today. There are numerous testing and deployments. You have in revenue service with companies, automated trucks. I think the time to continue to pretend like this it isn't going to happen has passed us on.
▶ 1:39:11Mr. Scandaglia: That said, continuing to exist in an environment where we have created no unique federal requirements other than you tell nhtsa when you get it is inappropriate. We are very much committed to including av trucks in the conversation. We want that to be a predicate for this bill. We are committed to working with the committee to get that done.
▶ 1:39:30Sen. Cruz: We look forward to working closely with you on that, trying to reach a resolution that hopefully incorporates the views of stakeholders. Thank you. Let's turn to a second topic which is freight fraud and communion carriers. This committee has taken testimony on the scourge of freight fraud and prepared to legislate to address it. I want to thank senator young for his leadership on a safer transport act which will help stop freight fraud if enacted.
▶ 1:40:00Sen. Cruz: Chameleon carriers, care is with poor safety records that go out of business and then reincarnate as new carriers with clean records are particularly problematic for fraudulent activities and poor safety record. Mr. spear, Mr. scandaglia, can you elaborate on the chameleon carrier problem and what congress should do to address it?
▶ 1:40:26Mr. Spear: The bill would allow the tools regardless of administration, they would be focus on cleaning up the registry which is the breeding ground for chameleon carriers. They shouldn't get busted, go under, and then repost under a new number. We are enforcing the law on the same people over and over. We need to get them out of the industry. He's are bad people. Beyond that, fraud detection in your bill is really outstanding. This is a d.o.t.
▶ 1:40:55Mr. Spear: Specific issue that I think would add a lot of certainty within our industry, with the agency overseeing us. I would like to make it permanent. I don't want to be just another two and a half years. It's is exactly what the agency should be doing. I'm glad to see it being done now, glad to see you putting forth legislation that would make them permanent.
▶ 1:41:19Mr. Spear: Beyond that, the combating retail organized crime act, I want to share my appreciation for the heavy bipartisan support in the senate. This past the house judiciary committee unanimously. Nothing goes to that committee unanimously. It went off the house floor with 145 democrats. This is going to bring the federal government, doj, d.o.t.
▶ 1:41:42Mr. Spear: To the table, where he states, localities, industry doesn't have the ability to go after transnational organizations in eastern europe, russia, other parts of the world. This is $18 million a day costing my industry, 6.6 billion dollars a year. I applaud you all for taking this bill up. It is sitting in the senate right now and the president is waiting to sign it. This can be done very quickly and would bring the federal government to the table. We can combat this.
▶ 1:42:13Sen. Cruz: That is helpful. Mr. scandaglia.
▶ 1:42:18Mr. Scandaglia: We have had this problem for decades and decades. Unfortunately, have continued to throw our hands up in the air and say it is hard and complicated, not make progress. I also agree we have a small number of fleets and operators who are contributing to a large percentage of this problem.
▶ 1:42:38Mr. Scandaglia: We are encouraged by efforts to finally deal with this, both efforts that the dot is taking, we appreciate consideration and safer transport for using the technology tools at federal motor carrier to assess their data sets to look for patterns not currently being found. We are all in in this regard. It's a great initiative.
▶ 1:42:57Sen. Cruz: Thank you.
▶ 1:42:59Chair Young: Senator moreno, you are recognized for your second tranche of questions.
▶ 1:43:07Sen. Moreno: Ms. chace, you talked about the importance of make sure we don't have chinese automobiles in the market from a national security perspective. Mr. spear, from your perspective, from the trucking association's perspective, how important is it to make sure we get that clear before we talk about autonomous vehicles?
▶ 1:43:30Sen. Moreno: I think most americans would probably think it is a conspiracy theory to think that manufacturers can remote access vehicles and take control of them. Of course, having chinese communist party defense contractors allowed to sell cars in the U.S., can you talk about, expand on what Ms. chace said about national security?
▶ 1:43:52Mr. Spear: I would also go back to past experiences working in global tech manufacturer. We had a 80/20 rule at that time with china because you always want 20 back. Six months down the road, they are taking our technology and replicating it. They are that good, that fast. Our conceding on a lot of these things and the baton to china to take control of it.
▶ 1:44:22Mr. Spear: We look at our industry a little bit different than passenger vehicles. Having our roughly half dozen manufacturers in the U.S., mexico, we have better controls about what is in a vehicle. We do have chinese parts in trucks. Working with bis, commerce department, we were able to separate it with passenger vehicles. Looking at what was a safety security concern with our trucks.
▶ 1:44:49Mr. Spear: I think it is a bit less with cars, but on 100% wedded to when you are trying to do. There are steps forward where you can get that rulemaking done at vis and accomplish exactly what your bill proposes.
▶ 1:45:02Sen. Moreno: The point being, let's make sure we solve the chinese threat before we start thinking about autonomous vehicles. If we did one before the other, you could have a huge problem. We understand a national security threat. Mr. scandaglia, I think you and your president wake up every day thinking about working americans, making certain you can have a mom or dad have one job where they can provide for their family.
▶ 1:45:29Sen. Moreno: That is where there should be commonality between republicans and democrats. That should be our goal. How do we build a working class in this country? Two point for you expanding about. We understand the national security threat. What is the economic threat to having chinese automobiles in the united states from your perspective?
▶ 1:45:51Mr. Scandaglia: One of the substantial threats that we see is safety for the actual operating workforce. We were extremely disturbed when the committee held a hearing on autonomous vehicles in february, when the witness from we know -- waymo suggested they had individuals in the philippines who were capable of manipulating those vehicles. That is horrifying.
▶ 1:46:18Mr. Scandaglia: The idea that you could have a driver and a level four automated truck, and someone in china can press a button to make that truck take a turn or accelerate, is really horrifying to our membership, puts members at risk. The other thing I would mention, too, not so much chinese vehicle being imported but about chinese companies setting up shop in america and then receiving the benefit of federal transportation dollars.
▶ 1:46:46Mr. Scandaglia: We are proud to represent the employees of gillet who manufactures heavy trucks in california. They continued to be under and excessive tonsil threat from byd who opened up manufacturing facilities while being entirely funded by the chinese government. We cannot compete that way.
▶ 1:47:07Mr. Scandaglia: It would be a really horrible solution -- answer if our members and the company we represent was driven out of business by a chinese owned company that is uninterested in the time being whether or not they make a profit, just to dominate the market.
▶ 1:47:22Sen. Moreno: The auto industry, take that exact example and multiply it by 100. Ford and general motors can compete with any country on earth but -- company on earth but not a country. Not because these cars are more innovative but they are willing to lose hundreds of billions of dollars to basically destroy the western auto world. We would have to be decently done to allow that to happen.
▶ 1:47:46Mr. Scandaglia: I would agree.
▶ 1:47:48Sen. Moreno: We should not be decently dumb. The last question I have for you, Mr. scandaglia, we talked about some of the framework we are trying to do. Talk about what it means to your members to have to share the road with others who are here illegally, who don't speak the language, we don't have to go through the rigor that your members to, what does that do for them on a day-to-day basis, having to be vigilant, not knowing who is in these other trucks?
▶ 1:48:19Mr. Scandaglia: There is certainly vigilance on the road regardless of why someone is specifically unqualified. Potentially in those circumstances, our members, their workplace is the road. Having someone sharing that road with them who should not be is concerning on a day-to-day basis. The other thing that is equally worth mentioning, though, is whether or not those jobs exist.
▶ 1:48:45Mr. Scandaglia: We are competing against people, companies who are operating through low road systems, having drivers who are not trained, not here locally. It presents a safety concern and competition concern that relates to whether our jobs continue to exist.
▶ 1:49:02Sen. Moreno: The mage government is make certain that something like that doesn't happen. Would you agree?
▶ 1:49:08Mr. Scandaglia: Absolutely.
▶ 1:49:10Sen. Moreno: Given what indiana did to ohio state, do you mind if I ask one more question?
▶ 1:49:15Chair Young: Given that, go ahead.
▶ 1:49:19Sen. Moreno: All of a sudden come indiana is a football town.
▶ 1:49:22Chair Young: I am concerned this will continue.
▶ 1:49:26Sen. Moreno: That probably won't. The football probably won't. Mr. spear, one of the things we have not talked about which is critical -- you talked about how reversing the advanced truck rule saved the trucking industryin an apocalyptic scenario in the economy, we talked about the importance of jobs, chinese vehicles. There is another threat to your industry which is completely out of control litigation.
▶ 1:49:54Sen. Moreno: It's important to give you time you talk about that, and what that means to your members and your companies.
▶ 1:50:00Mr. Spear: Indifferent to this hearing, we have a good bipartisan legislation, very good thought put into these proposals. California air resources board doesn't of time with our industry. They don't care what our industry has to say. Their attitude is you will figure it out. If you are going to electrify our industry within five years with no infrastructure, power -- I don't care where it comes from.
▶ 1:50:27Mr. Spear: It could be coal, nuclear, wind, solar, hydro-guy maybe a combination of all of them. But this is already a state that suffers from rolling blackouts. To say that you are going to have the power to go through it if you have the infrastructure, which you don't, you don't have the minerals which come from china and the congo. We have them here but it takes 10 years to get to them. The cost parity, 3.5 times more than a diesel truck which emits 98.5 percent less than a diesel truck did in 1988.
▶ 1:50:58Mr. Spear: In one truck today, it is so efficient compared to all the trucks. 60 trucks today on the road, brand-new diesel, and it's what one truck did in 1988. They didn't take that into account.
▶ 1:51:16Chair Young: Thank you, cummins engines.
▶ 1:51:20Mr. Spear: Then you look at the operational parity. It takes 15 minutes to fill a diesel to go 1200 miles. It takes six to eight hours for electric truck to go 200 miles. You are going to need more drivers, more trucks. It is just colossal. It was one of the dumbest ideas I've ever seen put forward by anyone, including california, which I referred to as the breeding ground of all bad public policy. They just don't think things through, they don't care.
▶ 1:51:50Chair Young: Thank you. On that note, because it has been a constructive and thoughtful exchange from all of our witnesses. Thank you so much. Our members, we have learned a lot in this hearing. Before we wrap up, I want to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter from the autonomous vehicle industry association and the intermodal association of north america.
▶ 1:52:21Chair Young: Without objection. So ordered. Thank you to all the witnesses were there important testimony today. Senators will have until the close of business on june 16 to submit questions for the record. The witnesses will have until close of business on june 30 two respond to those questions. This concludes today's hearing. The committee stands adjourned.