▶ 0:36:27Chair Curtis: Welcome. We would like to convene our hearing. Thank you to staff and for understanding the flexibility in schedule, and particularly our witness. Thank you, and we will begin. Ranking member, good to have you with us. Thank you for participating and being part of this. I we'll start first with opening remarks. I ran and its proxies -- let me start here -- this hearing of the western hemisphere subcommittee will come to order.
▶ 0:36:57Chair Curtis: This hearing is to examine how the trump administration's national security strategy prioritizes the western hemisphere. In other words, what is the trump corollary to the monroe doctrine. For too long the policy has treated our own neighborhood as an afterthought, while our adversaries have treated it as an opportunity. The national security strategy makes a welcome correction by putting the western hemisphere near the center of american national security policy.
▶ 0:37:25Chair Curtis: It is by that united states should focus first on the safety, security, and prosperity of the american people, and frequently that means focusing on the security of our own region. That means of securing our border, stopping deadly drugs before they enter our communities, strengthening supply chains closer to home, and ensuring that hostile powers cannot control strategic assets in our own hemisphere.
▶ 0:37:46Chair Curtis: Many ways, the real test of our webster hemisphere strategy is whether it can blunt and rollback the presence of our global adversaries china, russia, and iran, within our backyard. China has spent years building influence through ports, telecommunications infrastructure, natural resource, surveillance, technology, and diplomatic pressure. Russia has you to venezuela, cuba, and nicaragua to project influence and challenge U.S. interests within the hemisphere.
▶ 0:38:16Chair Curtis: Iran and its proxies have sought footholds through malign networks and anti-american regimes can which is why the committee has passed my bills the no hezbollah in our hemisphere act which pushback on these networks. The national security strategy is right to say that non-hemispheric competitors should not be allowed to position forces threatening capabilities or control strategically vital assets in our hemisphere.
▶ 0:38:46Chair Curtis: This is that pencil put into practice. Nicolas maduro's regime has been a platform for russia, china, and iran possible criminal influence in our hemisphere. His regime fills migration and enriches corrupt networks and cooperates with malign outside powers for drug trafficking and illicit activity to flourish. We are not going to let what amounted to an illegitimate russian puppet government corruptly cling to power and operate within our own backyard.
▶ 0:39:14Chair Curtis: Now maduro resides in a prison in new york. We are beginning to see early signs of change inside venezuela hundreds of political prisoners have been released, opposition figures are able to organize more openly, venezuelan oil is no longer being exclusively used to supply china, and there are signs of ships within the government structure, including the removal of some maduro loyalists. Venezuela today is in a much different place than it was a year ago.
▶ 0:39:40Chair Curtis: However, congress is going to be interested in what the path and out looks like for venezuela from here to the democratic transition. Progress has been made throughout the region of the diplomatic front as well. After secretary rubio's visit, panama announced it would move to leave china's bill" initiative -- belt and road initiative.
▶ 0:40:10Chair Curtis: Those development's should be seen as examples of the strategic a competition the united states can win when we focus, engage, and are willing to use diplomatic and commercial tools together. We should encourage more countries in the region to take similar steps. I'm supportive of this renewed focus on the western hemisphere and the recognition that will -- what will happen in our neighborhood affects the security of the american people. What is important -- it is important to not relieve us of our responsibility to conduct oversight.
▶ 0:40:38Chair Curtis: Congress has a duty to ask hard questions about strategy, coordination with regional partners, and what comes next. You must ensure that a stronger focus on our own hemisphere does not come at the expense of american leadership elsewhere. Strength in our neighborhood should reinforce, not replace khmer engagement in europe, the indo pacific, and the middle -- our engagement in europe, the indo pacific and the middle east. The goal is strategic privatization rooted in american strength.
▶ 0:41:05Chair Curtis: I look forward to hearing from the ambassador on how the state department is implementing the strategy and how congress can ensure the united states remains the partner of first choice in our own hemisphere. With that, I would like to recognize my listing with ranking member and friend for his comments. Senator kaine.
▶ 0:41:21Sen. Kaine: Well, thank you, chairman curtis. This is an interesting subcommittee because I degette may be the only --I think it may be the only subcommittee where the chairman and ranking were missionaries. You were in asia and I was in honduras. My interest in the region really stems back to that experience, 1980 to 1981.
▶ 0:41:43Sen. Kaine: Many of our colleagues are not adhering out because there is a press conference in a couple of minutes to discuss the bipartisan russia sanctions bill that was a real passion of senator graham's, and a number of members of this committee, both democratic and republican, who might show up later are at that event.
▶ 0:42:03Sen. Kaine: We would like to be there, but multiple things are happening at the same time. I want to thank senator curtis for being a great collaborator on western hemisphere issues, including the strengthening of rule of law in the brazilian amazon act and the securing partner supply chains act. He is a good colleague in this area.
▶ 0:42:23Sen. Kaine: I am very appreciative of your service, michael kozak's long service to the state government under multiple administrations, your expertise in this area. The western hemisphere has been my regional of focus it since I came to the senate in 2013 because of that experience now 45 years ago. And I have long critiqued both democratic and republican administrations for persistent under attention to the region.
▶ 0:42:52Sen. Kaine: And so I think the national security strategy both in word, but also in the orientation of members of this administration, raising the profile of the western hemisphere is a good thing. I have some significant concerns about how it's being done, and those will be the source of many of my questions today.
▶ 0:43:13Sen. Kaine: Just to give you one, and it has to do with terminology, the president and his team, in talking about the western hemisphere, have talked about an updated monroe doctrine that they call the donroe doctrine. That phrase lands very differently in latin america than it does at home. Many of us have learned about the monroe doctrine in history here.
▶ 0:43:38Sen. Kaine: It was a decision undertaken first by president monroe that nations outside the americas, european nations at the time, should not be able to extend their sphere of influence into the americas. From an american standpoint, that doesn't seem like that controversial a position. But from a latin american standpoint, the monroe doctrine means dominance by the united states. Everybody wants a partner. Nobody wants to be dominated. Nobody wants to be dominated.
▶ 0:44:09Sen. Kaine: The smallest nation in the world would like a partnership with united states. They would not like dominance by the united states. And that phrase, monroe doctrine, has a very, very troubled and painful history attached to it in the americas. We don't feel pained by it here, but in the americas they do.
▶ 0:44:30Sen. Kaine: I feel like some of what we are doing in this new domino doctrine--this new donroe doctrine, particularly both strikes without congressional authorization in the caribbean and the pacific, and the removal of the horrible dictator maduro, but the decision to maintain in place his dictatorship when there is an opposition that essentially won an election a year and half ago and is locked out of power, I have real concern about the way this new focus on the americas is being in limited.
▶ 0:45:00Sen. Kaine: So with--being implemented. So with a compliment to begin, I'm glad we are paying more attention to the americas. The americas are paid too little attention for way too long. I feel like if we are going to pay more attention, we have gotta calibrate the right way, and my discussion will be in that space. I appreciate the chairman for calling this hearing and I look forward to a good discussion.
▶ 0:45:26Chair Curtis: Thank you. Thank you, colleague. And I greatly respect your expertise in this part of the world could I wish I would've spent two years there, also in asia. I know living there as you did gives you a great appreciation for the people, the culture. I'm glad you have that expertise on this committee.
▶ 0:45:48Chair Curtis: I would like to turn the time over to our witness, ambassador michael kozak, a senior official for the bureau of western hemisphere affairs at the department of state. He has more than five decades of service. I think that predates our time abroad. As a diplomat, and has twice served as senior bureau official for the bureau of western hemisphere affairs including from 2019 to 2021, and again beginning in january 2025.
▶ 0:46:19Chair Curtis: The ambassador has served as acting assistant for western hemisphere affairs, senior official for global criminal justice, as investor to belarus, chief of mission at the U.S. interest section and have benefited bene--in havana. Ambassador kozak, the floor is yours.
▶ 0:46:38Mr. Kozak: Thank you, chairman curtis ranking curtis ran, ranking member kaine. President trump's strategy outlines an agenda that includes ending illegal immigration, defeating narco terrorist groups, and eliminating the influence of malign extra hemispheric actors. Daily immigrant encounters at the U.S. southwest border are down by 92%.
▶ 0:47:07Mr. Kozak: Partners across the region have enhanced the control of their own borders. They now realize the societal ills their country suffered because of the human trafficking from and through them. A very significant amount of the cartels' overall revenue came from moving illegal immigrants to the united states. And that is now specially taken away from them. You have designated 18 transnational criminal organizations and gangs as terrorist groups.
▶ 0:47:39Mr. Kozak: These designations enable us to use additional law enforcement tools against these organizations. In march, president trump expanded our efforts through the shield of the americas summit and the american counter cartel coalition. Leaders who share our resolve to defeat the cartels are engaged as never before. The january 3 U.S. law enforcement operation removed venezuela's top narco trafficker, nicolas maduro.
▶ 0:48:06Mr. Kozak: The officials of the interim of an israeli government now comply with our request--interim venezuelan government now comply with our requests on narcotics. Malign foreign actors seek to control critical minerals and other vital resources in the region. This april, we expanded visa restrictions on those working on behalf of such U.S. adversaries in the western hemisphere. We've already seen a deterrent effect.
▶ 0:48:30Mr. Kozak: We, along with others in the region, supported panama as china attempted economic retaliation following the decision of panama's independent supreme court regarding control of the ports, as the chairman manchin. A related objective--chairman mentioned. A related objective has been to involve U.S.-allied firms in the construction of critical infrastructure.
▶ 0:48:56Mr. Kozak: We have signed seven cooperative critical mineral mou's that will speed up resource development we are addressing natural and man-made disasters in the region. We have mobilized an unprecedented effort to support venezuela, including more than 346 million in assistance.
▶ 0:49:16Mr. Kozak: And we have also deployed to venezuela within hours urban search and rescue teams from los angeles, fairfax county, miami-dade, and the city of miami. These saved people who were trapped under the rubble. The department of war repair damaged runways and assisted with logistics in support of emergency personnel. We are now working to help the interim government address the housing problem that the earthquake caused.
▶ 0:49:46Mr. Kozak: Venezuela also suffers from man-made tragedies caused by the maduro regime. To this end, we will continue to implement our three-phased approach of stabilization, economic recovery, and political reconciliation, and then transitioned to a democratically elected government.
▶ 0:50:02Mr. Kozak: I should note here, the interim government and leaders of the 2015 national assembly of venezuela, the last democratically elected institution of that country, which we recognize is the government of venezuela up until a few months ago, shortly before the earthquake came together and agreed on a very ambitious agenda to put in place the steps necessary to have credible,
▶ 0:50:32Mr. Kozak: Free, and fair elections in venezuela. That activity got overshadowed a little bit by the earthquake, but happily today, both sides announced they will be resuming their dialogue and setting up working groups to deal with the mechanics of having elections come august 1. So fairly soon they will be back at it again. So this is something very encouraging to us.
▶ 0:50:57Mr. Kozak: With maduro's arrest, the cuban communist regime lost its last benefactor. The end of massive subsidies exposed the regime's economic incompetence. As the secretary said, we have 90 miles from our shores a failed state that is friendly territory for some of our adversaries. President trump has made it clear we will not tolerate that threat any longer.
▶ 0:51:22Mr. Kozak: The president's executive order targets the cuban regime, its security apparatus, and its grip on the economy, not the people of cuba. On may 20, raul castro was finally indicted for his role in the 1996 murder of three U.S. citizens and one lpr. July 11 marked the five-year anniversary of the red protests in cuba.
▶ 0:51:51Mr. Kozak: Several hundred peaceful protesters remain in jail, and we continue to demand that the regime release all political prisoners. Secretary rubio has a the status quo is no longer tenable. Cuba must make immediate economic and political reforms that will allow it to reemerge as a productive and responsible member of the western hemisphere. Nicaragua suffers from a brutal kleptocratic, dictatorial dynasty that replaces the catholic church as well as citizens. It hosts security adversaries of the united states. The status quo in nicaragua also is intolerable.
▶ 0:52:22Mr. Kozak: It must change, and soon. , 2020 five, the trump administration designated patient gangs as foreign terrorist organizations. These 50 mobilization of the gang suppression force will restore haiti's baseline secured, prevent state collapse, and deter mass illegal migration to the united states.
▶ 0:52:40Mr. Kozak: We expect to see greater gains as the gang suppression force fully deploys and as the haitian police increase their numbers thanks to a program developed by our colleagues in the bureau of international narcotics and law enforcement. So these are several highlights of our engagement with the wi of our engagement with the w western hemisphere. I think you and look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:53:01Chair Curtis: Yes, I guess we could debate if they are highlights or low lights. I will begin questioning. Mr. ambassador, after secretary rubio's visit to panama, they announced it would move to leave china's belt and road initiative. We also heard the announced sell of the panama canal to the hong kong-based consortium.
▶ 0:53:30Chair Curtis: Are there lessons about how the united states can use engagement and strategic clarity to rollback china's engagement in the region, and part two, are there countries in the hemisphere where a similar approach might be equally successful?
▶ 0:53:45Mr. Kozak: Yes, thank you, chairman. I would say there are some good lessons out of it. Each situation is somewhat different. Panama -- part of it was that panama had come to its own conclusion of being part of the belt and road initiative was more liability then gain. They told us they were ready to leave on that.
▶ 0:54:07Mr. Kozak: They also had their comptroller look into the way that those port concessions had been granted and found a great deal of fraud and failure to implement the agreement the supreme court took action there. I think what was key in this, though, is china then attempted to intimidate them by their doing inspections and detaining of panama-flagged vessels in their ports and so on.
▶ 0:54:39Mr. Kozak: And panama made a bit of a back up and got it from countries in the region. The countries that joined the shoulder of the americas--shield of the americas by and large issued statements standing in solidarity with panama against that threat from china.
▶ 0:54:54Mr. Kozak: But we have also seen in other parts of the region the chinese try to move in, deal with this for example, in some places they go directly -- for example, in some places they go directly to a university and say, oh, we will donate a telescope to you for high-level research and someone, and it turns out the telescope is to spy on american satellites and other things like that. They bypassed the national government.
▶ 0:55:23Mr. Kozak: We have had some success talking directly with the subnational groups. We have had some dealing with national governments, urgent national governments throughout the region to adopt investment screening.
▶ 0:55:36Chair Curtis: Let me bore down a little bit on that you hit on one of the questions I wanted to ask, the china strategy. He mentioned a couple of things--you mentioned a couple of things. The loans that become predatory. There is quite a long list. Your answer on panama is interesting.
▶ 0:55:59Chair Curtis: Let me come back to this concept -- if that is what brought clarity to panama, how do we bring clarity to these other countries, not just with elected officials, but the voters, constituents who tended to see all of this coming from china and states not doing anything, the reality of it is we have this thing called rule of law and we do things differently. We are far more transparent, and the way we help isn't always seen the way china seems to be seen.
▶ 0:56:28Chair Curtis: What would you suggest, particularly from a congressional role, of how we, a, get better clarity of what china is doing, and get better credit for what we are doing?
▶ 0:56:43Mr. Kozak: Yes, sir. It is super important to get people sensitized to this. At the beginning I think governments didn't realize how predatory the chinese loan strategy and someone was. They learned by adverse experience what it was. What we have been trying to do, and this goes back to the last time I had this job, was to publicize throughout the region just the facts. We are not saying don't engage with china.
▶ 0:57:13Mr. Kozak: We still buy things from china and so on. But we are saying look at what happens to you if you get into this kind of a deal. Don't enter into it on their terms. That's been quite successful. It is certainly successful at a national government level. Not so much with the populations at large.
▶ 0:57:34Mr. Kozak: We have been trying to do more public relations, and I think anything congress can do to bring a focus on this -- one of the things we did that I mentioned in my testimony was this restrictions on visas now, where we are saying that -- this happens all over the place, basically members of the legislature, judiciary, labor unions in other countries take bribes from the chinese.
▶ 0:58:01Mr. Kozak: Or sometimes they take other forms of compensation, but they end up acting as agents for china and pushing some of this stuff. Basically, the administration has said if you are going to do that, you are not welcome here anymore. We are knocking to give you or your family visas to come to the unit--not going to give you or your family visas to come to the united states. We tried this in central america and it worked very well, and we have expanded it to the whole hemisphere.
▶ 0:58:29Chair Curtis: Seems like stronger coordination between congress and state as we go into those countries, knowing which messages to carry, which things to point out, might also be helpful. Be assured I have a lot of questions. I think we may have time for more questions, but I would like to yield to the ranking number at this point.
▶ 0:58:47Sen. Kaine: Thank you, and I hope we will have a second round as well. Mr. kozak, I want to ask about venezuela. In july 2024 there were presidential elections. Maduro with his dictatorship was running to continue his reign of terror over the country. He disqualified the leading opposition figure, maría corina machado, but you're previously from being a presidential candidate. She threw her support behind the unitary platforms candidate.
▶ 0:59:18Sen. Kaine: The election happened in july 2024, and virtually all who watched that election said that the opposition won 2-1. The maduro officials claimed that they won the election. Gonzalez was forced into exile in spain, and machado forced into exile as well. But it was clear that the venezuelan people spoke loudly that they were tired of the chavez-maduro reign of terror and they want to change. That change has not come to pass.
▶ 0:59:50Sen. Kaine: In the aftermath of the removal of maduro from power, maría corina machado, who has since won a nobel prize for her advocacy for venezuelans, and who has visited washington and presented the nobel prize to president trump as I -- a thank-you for the U.S.' role in removing maduro, has essentially been blocked from going back to venezuela.
▶ 1:00:16Sen. Kaine: There is reason reporting -- I would like to put one article into the record from june 29, U.S.-back to venezuelan government blocks opposition leader's flight home, if I could introduce that. That is one of a number of articles that have reported that in the aftermath of the earthquake, Ms. machado, wanting to return home as any of us would want to go back to our homes in the aftermath of a disaster in our home, has been essentially been rebuffed.
▶ 1:00:42Sen. Kaine: To short-form the reporting, the reporting suggest she has been in dialogue with the state department. Secretary landau had give her reasonable believe she could return. But on two occasions when she has made effort to fly back to venezuela in the last two weeks, her plane has been turned around, reportedly at the direction of other U.S. officials. This reporting has occurred during the two weeks we have been on recess, and deeply troubled me. And I've made efforts to reach Mr. landau to figure out what's going on.
▶ 1:01:13Sen. Kaine: I was very heartened to see that president trump on the way back to the united states from the nato summit was asked by reporters about this and said he has no opposition to maría corina machado returning to venezuela. I just want to clarify that the administration is not opposed to the nobel laureate returning to her home country as the country is dealing with earthquake really. Is that correct? -
▶ 1:01:41Mr. Kozak: It is correct. Let me comment on a couple of things quickly, senator britt you are absolutely right about the 2024 elections. As we have said before, maduro's leaving -- edward opens up -- edmundo gonzalez was the rightful president-elect of venezuela.
▶ 1:02:08Mr. Kozak: With respect to maría corina machado, who we all know and admire, the administration has tried to walk the line with earthquake relief of saying we don't oppose her returning. She is not a prisoner or anything like that.
▶ 1:02:23Mr. Kozak: At the same time, we have said, in terms of using our energies and resources, that we are not going to facilitate or encourage or endorse it -- take the steps that would be necessary to get the interim regime to accept her. At the time we are trying to deal with the earthquake relief. This is a fairly narrow window. Not introducing a political element into the earthquake --
▶ 1:02:48Sen. Kaine: But I want to drill down on that. Not opposing her return, not able to facilitate the return, but not even willing to speak to the government to say she should be treated fairly? She is a venezuelan citizen. Where did you grow up, Mr. kozak ?
▶ 1:03:06Mr. Kozak: In california.
▶ 1:03:08Sen. Kaine: Do you still have a there? Mr. kozak--have family there?
▶ 1:03:13Mr. Kozak: Yes.
▶ 1:03:15Sen. Kaine: If there was an earthquake there, I could guarantee you would want to go home to your family. There is nothing political about that motivation. When you say we need to be worried about the politics, she is an is aa venezuelan citizen. She would want to return to her home as you would or I would've to help her family and friends. I don't think there is an expectation that the U.S. has to protect her. But the U.S. has huge influence in venezuela.
▶ 1:03:45Sen. Kaine: And if she were to want to go home, the U.S. should say and you should treat her with the respect she deserves as a nobel laureate and as somebody who's political party just won a presidential election in the eyes of the world in the last two years. I would hope that would be the administration's position.
▶ 1:04:03Mr. Kozak: Our position, senator, has been that all of the venezuelans who have been in exile because they have arrest warrants out for them in venezuela should be able to go back.
▶ 1:04:14Sen. Kaine: Thank you.
▶ 1:04:15Mr. Kozak: And that includes first and foremost maría corina machado. At the same time, we have made progress on that. We have not reached a complete resolution of it with the interim authorities. There are a lot of people in that same boat. They passed an amnesty law to amnesty a lot of the people who were in jail and a lot of the people who were in exile. It is not a perfect amnesty law. It worked for a lot of people and a lot of politicians were able to go back and get active.
▶ 1:04:46Mr. Kozak: Her party was able to reopen its headquarters and so on. But there are still something, just under 400 political prisoners in venezuela that should all be released, and there are still people like her outside venezuela who should be able to, back -- com e back and can't yet because of this.
▶ 1:05:06Sen. Kaine: It is my hope, and I want to cede to senator scott -- I will come back in a second out on another topic -- look, it is my hope, when I see reporting suggesting that the U.S. is actually blocking her from returning, a, I hope that that's wrong. B, if it was right for a week, I hope president trump clarifying on the plane home from nato that the U.S.
▶ 1:05:29Sen. Kaine: Has no objection to her returning to venezuela, I hope that is now the clear, unequivocal policy of the united states, and that that policy is communicated to the venezuelan government, over whom we have significant influence at the present time. I yield back, Mr. chair.
▶ 1:05:45Chair Curtis: I would actually associate myself with that wish as well. We will give you a chance to come back. I would like to yield to our friend from florida, senator scott.
▶ 1:05:56Sen. Scott: Ambassador, thank you for what you do. So I'm from florida. We have a significant human population and a significant venezuelan population. Let's go to what senator kaine was talking about. Arresting maduro was a big deal no prior president would do it. Venezuelans in florida are ecstatic over that. They are concerned about is all the political prisoners haven't been released.
▶ 1:06:27Sen. Scott: There is still oppression. Even with this earthquake, the regime -- if people say the wrong thing about the venezuelan regime, they are getting arrested. So there is still all this oppression. We don't have a date for an election. And so in my state -- can't talk about anyplace else -- venezuelans are losing hope.
▶ 1:06:52Sen. Scott: Delcy rodriguez, who was maduro's vice president, not duly elected, as we talked about, is going to wait out the trump administration and nothing is going to happen. That is the perception. Doesn't mean it's reality, it's the perception. What should I tell the venezuelan community in my state?
▶ 1:07:10Mr. Kozak: I think I would refer back, senator scott, to secretary rubio's statements. He said we don't want elections too soon when they don't have the machinery set up. I think something like 40% of the eligible voters in venezuela are not registered at this point. So they have got to clean up the voter rolls, they have got to get the election tribunal renovated.
▶ 1:07:35Mr. Kozak: This is why -- he has also said we don't want to have elections too late, making the point that people aren't going to invest in a long-term way in venezuela until they see a stable democratically elected government there. So we have been trying to get -- and find the sweet spot between those two things.
▶ 1:07:55Mr. Kozak: I mentioned earlier one of the good developments in our view has been the effort between the 2015 national assembly that was a democratically elected group, and includes I think all the political parties of venezuela, and the interim authority group that they just announced today that they are going to resume their discussions on august 1 to try to put in place all those elements that you need to have the elections.
▶ 1:08:22Mr. Kozak: So we are not looking at letting this go on and on and on beyond the administration. But we also don't want to do it at a time in the middle of an earthquake and when a lot of people, as we were mentioning with senator kaine, that should be able to participate in the election can't back to venezuela and so on. We need to work through those issues.
▶ 1:08:47Mr. Kozak: But we are working them, and we think there is a good institutional structure now amongst the venezuelans to do that.
▶ 1:08:54Sen. Scott: Thank you. Let's talk about cuba for a second. The cubans in miami in particular, but we have cubans all over our state, they were happy that raul castro was indicted. That's a positive. But they are worried that nothing's really happening. How can you give cubans in florida hope that something is actually going to change there, that we are going to see accountability?
▶ 1:09:24Sen. Scott: You saw it with ambassador walt, said that the united nationsz about the opulence of the cuban regime. So how would you give cubans hope that something is going to happen?
▶ 1:09:37Mr. Kozak: I think the hope comes from the fact that the pressure on the regime to make the fundamental changes that have to occur if that country is ever going to be a viable country again, the pressure is harsher than it ever has been. And it's not only because of our doing. First and foremost, as I mentioned in testimony, cutting off the free oil supply from venezuela has really put pressure on them.
▶ 1:10:07Mr. Kozak: That regime was able to survive for years because the soviets gave them free stuff, largely oil pit they have been able to survive for the last 20 years because of venezuela was giving them oil, which, by the way, something like 40% to 60% of the oil they were getting from venezuela, they were selling it. They weren't using it to power generators or do things in cuba. They were selling into china and other places and using currency they got from that to line their pockets.
▶ 1:10:39Mr. Kozak: So they've been able to survive because of that. They don't have it anymore. The administration has put clamps on to prevent anybody else from trying to step in. Nobody is going to really step in and provide that kind of bonanza to the castro regime. But we are also -- and I think with some success -- talking to countries around the world. We saw some reflection of this with ambassador waltz and me voting in the u.n.
▶ 1:11:10Mr. Kozak: We said this is like trying to help somebody stop smoking. When you see them suffering, you don't hand him a cigarette. So don't give them a little bit of help that will only help them push off the decision. Bureaucracy in cuba was designed to never make any change unless fidel castro told them to. And they are having a really hard time. Some of them realize the changes they need to make, but they are having a hard time getting from here to there just because of the structure they set up.
▶ 1:11:40Mr. Kozak: I can't tell you exact me how this is going to go down, but the hope in this is that the pressures are intense on them to make change. There is really no way out. They are going to have to do it. Exactly how that breaks, I can't say. What we feel like we have got the elements there to hopefully make a big difference.
▶ 1:12:00Sen. Scott: So last question is the cubans traffic doctors and nurses through for decades, a long time. Finally, the trump administration is helped -- has helped stop that, but it is not allowed doctors who have been trafficker to sue the pan-american health organization. If they don't, how are they -- let's say another administration allows them to do it again.
▶ 1:12:29Sen. Scott: If we don't go ahead and waive immunity, what is going to-- for paho, what is the impetus for this to not happen again?
▶ 1:12:38Mr. Kozak: Paho was particularly guilty of that with respect to the program in brazil, where they basically served as an intermediary, money laundering, whatever you want to call it.
▶ 1:12:55Mr. Kozak: In the first trump administration, actually, we put a lot of pressure on paho, as members of the board, we and brazil and others, and they undertook a bunch of reforms that are supposed to prevent this from happening again. Trust but verify, we -- trust but verify read we also have success in having country say, enough of this. We are not going to do this anymore.
▶ 1:13:26Mr. Kozak: It is not that they are getting aid from cuba with the doctors. They are paying huge amounts of money to cuba. The doctors are giving very little to the cuban regime. >> paho, they allowed it.
▶ 1:13:40Mr. Kozak: They did with respect to the brazil program but that ended. We got a number of countries to break with it on they are either hiring directly cuban doctors.
▶ 1:13:55Mr. Kozak: In some cases the doctors decide they want to leave cuba, live in the country they were assigned to come I get paid directly, and other places they are hiring doctors from ghana and other parts of the world to make up for their deficit so we are making progress on that front. We can give you more detail later.
▶ 1:14:20Mr. Kozak: It has been a real priority for secretary rubio and the president and I think we have made a good sized dent so far but more to be done.
▶ 1:14:31Sen. Scott: Thank you. We would like to yield to our colleagues from nevada. >> thank you and thank you for holding this hearing. Thank you ambassador kozak for speaking with us today. I want to talk more about venezuela because the trump administration is reportedly overseeing the sale of nearly 100 million barrels of venezuelan oil worth an estimated $8 billion.
▶ 1:14:58Sen. Scott: Yet congress and the american people still have no idea what agreements actually govern these sales, how much revenue has been collected, who controls the money or what safeguards are in place or should be in place to prevent corruption and money laundering so ambassador kozak, how much venezuelan oil, gold and other revenue is the U.S. currently managing? Is it in qatari accounts, accounts with the U.S.
▶ 1:15:27Sen. Scott: Treasury, a combination? We would really like to know where the money is held, sir. If you could tell us what the revenue is and where the money is held we would appreciate that.
▶ 1:15:37Mr. Kozak: Certainly, thank you for the question senator rosen. First with respect to the qatari account, that was used once or twice in the early days because it was before we set up an american account. That was a one-time thing, it is out of the picture now. What was set up pursuant to executive order, there is an account the treasury department has set up.
▶ 1:16:05Mr. Kozak: It is controlled either treasury department and the state department, but the money remains venezuelan money, money they get from oil. They put it in that account and in order to spend it, we have to approve the expenditure. So this is by agreement with them. It is there money but it is part of the sanctions.
▶ 1:16:29Sen. Rosen: They have to ask permission.
▶ 1:16:31Mr. Kozak: They have to get our commission -- permission. We talked about things that were permitted and not permitted. Paying government salaries, buying supplies.
▶ 1:16:42Sen. Rosen: Could you provide us a list of that? I'm interested in us -- in the status of an independent audit of the funds. Are there auditing firms involved and how they were selected. The american taxpayer really deserves transparency. It is a lot of money. Where it is going, who is approving it, how it is spent is important for us to know. So if you could send us some of that information.
▶ 1:17:06Mr. Kozak: Yes, I can give you some of it right now.
▶ 1:17:09Sen. Rosen: Our time is limited so I will have my team reach out and we can get that from you. I want to ask one more question about the venezuelan oil because secretary rubio in january assured this committee that multinational companies were only a short-term fix for marketing, selling that venezuelan oil. Six months and billions of dollars later both companies, which by the way have documented histories of bribery related to oil trading, remain involved.
▶ 1:17:42Sen. Rosen: Now a thirdtrader, ge warren, has been added. Where these firms still handling venezuelan revenue managed by the U.S. government?
▶ 1:17:55Mr. Kozak: The oil is being sold on the open market know so a lot of different companies are involved.
▶ 1:18:01Sen. Rosen: Even companies with documented history of bribery? We have to give them permission to spend the money, why are we not involved in bringing these companies in making sure again there auditing what is happening, where it is going, what they are doing?
▶ 1:18:17Sen. Rosen: We the youth -- Mr.
▶ 1:18:20Kozak: We the U.S. government haveqpmg monitoring expenditures as they are made.
▶ 1:18:26Sen. Rosen: Will you be making those audits public?
▶ 1:18:29Mr. Kozak: We will get a report in due course from the monitoring firm from qpmg and we will share the results of that with congress. I'm not sure when our colleagues will be receiving that but it should not be too long.
▶ 1:18:53Mr. Kozak: There was close monitoring on expenditures and the venezuelan government has hired another big five auditing firm to audit so we are looking at it as it is being expended. They are looking at it afterwards and we will have all that data.
▶ 1:19:10Sen. Rosen: It is important to be sure we have transparency and accountability. I have a few seconds left and want to ask about the catastrophic earthquakes last month. Nearly 4000 venezuelans have sadly lost their lives. We believe 16,000 sustained injuries, thousands more left homeless without adequate shelter as a result of these horrific earthquakes.
▶ 1:19:35Sen. Rosen: Experts estimate venezuela will require roughly $37 billion to recover yet the country's institutions have limited capacity to manage any reconstruction. Again, the risks of corruption are significant. Let's talk about that with the oil companies. How is the state department working with international partners to ensure reconstruction assistance is coordinated, transparent, protected from corruption, and helps these folks that have lost everything?
▶ 1:20:05Sen. Rosen: What are you doing to help?
▶ 1:20:08Mr. Kozak: What we have done so far is provide $386 million in assistance. This was largely food, medicine.
▶ 1:20:19Sen. Rosen: Will you be using some of the oil revenue to help with reconstruction?
▶ 1:20:23Mr. Kozak: This was U.S. assistance money on mentioning now. That got us through the period of trying to recover people buried under rubble, feeding people that had been displaced and so on. Almost 18,000 people have been displaced from their homes. In terms of the housing issue, trying to get adequate housing for people, that is where we are looking for them to use their own revenues.
▶ 1:20:54Mr. Kozak: They should have plenty of cash flow to do that. We are providing advisors and so on. We have one company helping them look at buildings to see if they are safe to be reoccupied again, or what repairs would be needed to make them so. We are also looking at companies that can supply modular housing.
▶ 1:21:15Sen. Rosen: Humanitarian issues.
▶ 1:21:17Mr. Kozak: So we are helping them select the people that can do this in an honest and transparent way than looking to use the oil revenues to pay for it in the end. Some of that is the phase we are in now, and that is working. You are absolutely right, it is a huge disaster for the country.
▶ 1:21:43Sen. Rosen: -- Sen. rosen: thank you. Thank you Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:21:48Chair Curtis: What was it like getting humanitarian aid in? Were we quickly able to get there? What was our experience?
▶ 1:21:55Mr. Kozak: It was pretty quick. We have used different -- u.n. Organizations, we have used groups like catholic relief, samaritans purse. We have interim agency agreements with the department of war and fema. So we have been able to move the.
▶ 1:22:24Mr. Kozak: We were able to get for the search-and-rescue groups the ones from fairfax county and los angeles arrived within 48 hours and the ones from miami and miami-dade within 72 hours so we had people on the ground rapidly and providing assistance.
▶ 1:22:46Mr. Kozak: One of the holdups was the airport was severely damaged by the earthquake and we had to get, dow had to make runways functional and provide an alternative air traffic control.
▶ 1:22:57Chair Curtis: Thank you, let me yield to the ranking member for a second round of questions. >> there fairfax county, virginia rescue team is one of the best in the world. They responded to both the pentagon and the world trade center after 9/11. They are super and I'm so glad you mentioned them. I have a painful question I wish I didn't have to ask. It is one that troubles me and I think it troubles many.
▶ 1:23:24Chair Curtis: We have had 66 strikes reported on boats in the caribbean and pacific and 215 people have been killed. Some have been killed as they were survivors clinging to wreckage. Others have not been killed in rescues. Some strikes are against fishing boats.
▶ 1:23:48Chair Curtis: I would like to enter an article from the guardian, april 27, we were terrified they would kill us, the fishers who survived the U.S. boat reads. The question I'm trying to grapple with is, are the 200 15 people killed by U.S. military, are they combat casualties or murder victims? I'm at a disadvantage because there is so much I know I can't describe.
▶ 1:24:17Chair Curtis: I have seen the legal rationale for these strikes but because it is classified I can't describe it. I have seen the president's list of designated terrorist organizations against whom we can make strikes, but because it is classified I can't describe it in because it is classified, those were being struck don't even know, they don't even know that they have been determined by the president of the united states to be combatants.
▶ 1:24:48Chair Curtis: I have seen the video of the strikes including the strikes on survivors clinging to wreckage, but that is classified and has not been shown to the american public, even though the american public has often seen videos of the strikes and with the shock and awe, we can think about. Most importantly, I've seen the targeting criteria, who we target with these strikes but I can describe those, because they can only -- have only been shown to me classified.
▶ 1:25:18Chair Curtis: I've reviewed the strike files of the first 46 and 66 strikes to see whether they are being done consistently with targeting criteria so here is what troubles me on this question, combat victims or murder victims. This is not a congressionally authorized military action.
▶ 1:25:43Chair Curtis: The president justify the action by saying it is an attack on narco terrorists, but, while I can't describe the targeting criteria, we had a hearing with them the last month with the secretary of state and we discussed senator paul and I, things that are not the targeting criteria. For example I used an obvious example that people in the boat are right-handed, that is not a targeted criteria, that is an obvious one.
▶ 1:26:11Chair Curtis: But we have been surprised to learn, and I have confirmed this through my review of the files and in conversations with the military leading this effort, that presence of drugs on the boat is not a targeting criteria. There need be no evidence of the presence of drugs. That is not a targeting criteria. In addition, the presence of arms on the boat is not a targeting criteria.
▶ 1:26:41Chair Curtis: And so, folks who are being attacked and 215 who have been killed, there was no requirement that there be any evidence that they either have narcotics with them or arms with them.
▶ 1:26:57Chair Curtis: In my review of 46 of the 66 files, I still have 20 to review, tells me the military is acting upon the targeting criteria they are using, but for some unexplained reason, secretary rubio could not explain it to me, you could have had a targeting criteria that there must be drugs on the boat. Could have had a targeting criteria, these folks must be armed.
▶ 1:27:24Chair Curtis: Yet the administration decided to use neither is targeting criteria. So the question Mr. kozak, I'm really grappling with, and it is a legal question but also a moral one, is, how should I consider the 215 people who have been killed by the U.S. military, when they are being struck by the U.S.
▶ 1:27:47Chair Curtis: Military without a congressional authorization, without even any notice that they are on this secret list of dto's, and without the requirement of any evidence that they either possess narcotics or weapons? Why should I believe these are combatant casualties rather than murder victims?
▶ 1:28:10Mr. Kozak: Senator, you probably have the advantage on me and having had those classified briefings. All I can say is that our colleagues in the department of war have been clear that she the strikes are only when they have good, solid reason to believe the people they are targeting our active members of one of these designated organizations.
▶ 1:28:40Mr. Kozak: As far as I know, the terrorist organizations are public.
▶ 1:28:44Sen. Kaine: The fto designations are public but the military authorization is against the dto's on the list that our secret. To discuss this is a little odd. Think about this, declaration of war tells the enemy, listen, if you associate with al qaeda, we are coming after you. If it is a public declaration.
▶ 1:29:08Sen. Kaine: But if you do a listing of secret organizations against whom the president authorizes military action, and you keep it classified and not public, who is to know, I'm getting on a boat and boy, this boat happens to be on a secret list in the military can attack it? You give no notice to anyone they should conform their behavior in such a way they are not subject to being hit by U.S. drone strikes or missiles or other weapons.
▶ 1:29:37She Mr. Kozak: I think the people hiring onto these boats have a pretty good idea they are -- what they are doing. This is something that should be discussed in the classified sessions as you have been in with our colleagues in the department of war. My involvement with it has been in the case of the two survivors of one of the strikes who was getting back home again. I was involved in that effort.
▶ 1:30:04Sen. Kaine: I get that we should have this discussion, including an classified, but the pentagon has no trouble going out and showing video of about strike and saying we got narco terrorists. Then a look at the file and the targeting criteria and say, where's the evidence? Again, the administration could have made presence of narcotics or presence of arms a targeting criteria. They chose not to.
▶ 1:30:35Sen. Kaine: The files of the strikes demonstrate that. I have not yet gotten an answer from secretary rubio. I've asked this of the boss, the secretary of state, and the pentagon. Why didn't you put in a targeting criteria -- if you're going to say you're killing narco terrorists, why didn't you put in a targeting criteria there had to be evidence of narcotics on the boat? Or evidence of arms on the boat, so you're taking action against someone who could have met you with harm?
▶ 1:31:07Sen. Kaine: You could have made that a criteria and chose not to. I have yet to good -- yet to get a good answer for that. Understanding where you are in the chain of command, but the state department is the space in the federal government where the rules of international law are embraced and understood and promulgated to the remainder of the U.S. government. That is the state department's responsibility. Mr.
▶ 1:31:33Sen. Kaine: Chair, probably with this witness, he has done his job as he probably can in answering the question, but I've been encouraging my colleagues, do what I have done. Go to the scif and look at the strike files. The U.S.
▶ 1:31:50Sen. Kaine: Military is killing people and bragging about it without a war authorization and in many cases without evidence that they possess any narcotics or arms, which means the threat they posed to the U.S. thousands of kilometers from here is so attenuated. Look, we wouldn't on the streets of the usa somebody, we think they are connected with a drug gang so let's just kill them.
▶ 1:32:22Sen. Kaine: You would never do that. We think somebody is connected to a drug gang, there is love -- some level of certainty, we don't have to see if they are caring drugs or arms, we can just kill them -- we would never do that. No one would accept that. If we won't accept it here, how can we perpetrate it elsewhere? That is the painful question I'm trying to get an answer to and thus far I haven't. I yield back.
▶ 1:32:47Chair Curtis: Thank you. You knew I would find a way to tie in asia with the western hemisphere.
▶ 1:32:53Sen. Kaine: I did.
▶ 1:32:54Chair Curtis: [laughter] Mr. ambassador, several countries in latin america, the caribbean, have not only switched diplomatic work condition from taiwan to people's republic of china and the last few years, but have endorsed beijing's one china principle which claims taiwan is part of china.
▶ 1:33:17Chair Curtis: Is there any potential for some of these former taiwan diplomatic allies to pull back from this philosophy, and to strengthen the relationship at least to some degree with taiwan?
▶ 1:33:26Mr. Kozak: Yes. We have encouraged the countries to continue to recognize -- that continue to recognize taiwan to take advantage of that good relationship. We try to counter the chinese propaganda, the one china principle, everywhere we can. Even with countries that recognize drc. -- prc.
▶ 1:33:48Mr. Kozak: We accept prc, but not the one china principle they are trying to justify, forcible recovery of what they claim to be there territory. In terms of countries switching back in recognition, I know of one where the country, where the president campaigned he would do that. We will see how rapidly that comes about.
▶ 1:34:18Mr. Kozak: Our view is, taiwan is a great partner. A good democratic entity that works well with countries in our region. And people should not be -- it is going back to your question about panama and the chinese and the intimidation factor. We're trying to say to others, should not be intimidated by china into not recognizing taiwan or --
▶ 1:34:44Chair Curtis: I would also hope. You have several layers there, one is working with taiwan in some of the organizations where taiwan can but dissipate, validating them. There is a lot taiwan has to offer in these organizations. I would hope evening countries not recognizing them, we could get some level of support for taiwan being validated and an important player in all of this.
▶ 1:35:13Chair Curtis: This is where I put in my plug for the bill this committee past, senator van hollen and I come the taiwan allies fund act, to provide financial assistance with relationships with taiwan. I knew we do have a couple colleagues coming. Do you have any questions? [indiscernible] >> I do have one more question but maybe mike staff can determine if other members are coming or not.
▶ 1:35:42Chair Curtis: -- my staff can determine if other members are coming or not. I have a follow-up question from what senator rosen was asking, if I can do that. Mr. kozak, this is in reference to senator rosen's questions about the oil. The oil revenue. You know whether treasury has denied a single request from the regime on disbursements? There is a fund, the regime is asking for disbursements.
▶ 1:36:12Chair Curtis: Do you know if the treasury has denied a single request?
▶ 1:36:14Mr. Kozak: I don't, but I think what has been clear from the beginning is, we have made clear what would be denied so people don't ask for that. No payments to cuba, no payments to iran, no payments to russia, no payments to your swiss bank accounts, no payments to narco groups. So they know all of those things are off-limits and they agreed with us at the beginning that those would be off-limits.
▶ 1:36:44Mr. Kozak: Then there are things clearly and limits, paying government salaries. The money is being transferred to the central bank to back the local currency. We have also done things like they were having a hard time getting medical supplies in many medical suppliers would deal with them because of the embargo and so on.
▶ 1:37:14Mr. Kozak: We found a supplier willing to deal with them but in that case, we transferred the money directly to that supplier. It varies from case to case, but there is a good understanding on what is within limits and what is off-limits.
▶ 1:37:28Sen. Kaine: I ask that question partly to filibuster. Senator shaheen is in the subway coming here. >> subway having a sandwich. [laughter] >> I will follow up quickly and if she doesn't arrive we will look forward -- move forward.
▶ 1:37:51Sen. Kaine: When you testified before the house you had similar comments about we have to get voting machines, do all of this and it feels a little like we are waiting for something that will never happen which is any country anywhere in the world to be 100% ready for an election.
▶ 1:38:10Sen. Kaine: Are there benchmarks or certain targets we know, specific dates that could help us feel come double, particularly those of us in congress they could see the transition, that we could be watching these dates and say we are on target?
▶ 1:38:26Mr. Kozak: I would watch this process between 2017 national -- 2015 assembly and the current one. They have different working groups. How rapidly are they going to get the voter rolls updated. That doesn't take forever. It may take months, but not a long time.
▶ 1:38:53Mr. Kozak: We also notified congress of democracy funds that were allocated for venezuela that we had sent a month or so ago saying we would use those to provide technical assistance. To get that straightened out they need the election commission, the membership of it as senator kaine mentioned was pretty skewed in one direction.
▶ 1:39:21Mr. Kozak: How do you get that negotiated out so you end up with a trustworthy group? There is asa bream -- a supreme tribunal, too. They need to allow political parties to operate freely and not be penalized for making a campaign statement and have it considered defamatory.
▶ 1:39:44Mr. Kozak: That is the agenda they have got working groups to work through each one of those elements and I would be looking to say, they got delayed for a month or so by the earthquake, but let's see over the next couple three months how they are doing in terms of putting those elements in place. We are also not looking for the cadillac election year. A good solid f-150 would work well for us.
▶ 1:40:13Chair Curtis: I will take that all day long. A little discussion about political prisoners. How much axis do our diplomats have to the detention centers?
▶ 1:40:25Mr. Kozak: We work with the ngo's. This has been a benefit of getting our embassy back into venezuela because we can connect directly with people in country rather than from afar. There are good groups that work in venezuela, and track political prisoners there. It is down to something like 3 70, 390.
▶ 1:40:56Mr. Kozak: We have got to get that to. We continue to see releasing political prisoners but keep going in and talking to the government about it. Again, if you had said before january 3, how many of the 1300 political prisoners would be released by now, it would be optimistic to say 900 something
▶ 1:41:26Mr. Kozak: Would be released. That is not good enough, we have got to get them all out. Or, in some cases the government will argue they have solid criminal charges against somebody for a nonpolitical crime. Fine if they can make that case. But we are going in with the list of the ngo's and working through that. Those are benchmarks.
▶ 1:41:56Mr. Kozak: Look for more prisoner releases, look for better interpretation of the amnesty laws so people like maría corina machado are no longer considered criminals when they come back to their country. And those are the kinds of things. And whether political parties are able to organize. We are seeing more media freedom than before so that is good. These are all benchmarks we are keeping an eye on.
▶ 1:42:26Chair Curtis: I'm not sure we would do this for anybody else but the committee is prepared to recognize the ranking member full committee and we are grateful you're are here with us today. >> thank you very much, Mr. chairman and senator kaine. I'm sorry to be late. We had a press conference introducing, reintroducing russian sanctions bill.
▶ 1:42:52Chair Curtis: I'm very supportive of that.
▶ 1:42:54Sen. Shaheen: On behalf of senator graham and hopefully we can move that bill. One of the questions -- I know there has been a fair amount of discussion on venezuela but one of the questions I have for you is whether we have any policy in the state department that suggests that nobel prize winner maría corina machado should not be allowed to go back into the
▶ 1:43:26Sen. Shaheen: Country. Is that a position the state department has taken?
▶ 1:43:27Mr. Kozak: No, to the contrary. As I mentioned earlier, ranking member, we think all of the people who have been in exile, political exile from the country, including and particularly maría corina machado, should be able to go back and be politically active again. We are not there yet.
▶ 1:43:53Mr. Kozak: The amnesty interim authorities past, they -- passed, they do not consider it to apply to her. That needs to be worked through, so she can go back and walk around. Otherwise she is getting arrested at the airport. That is not what we want to see. Our goal is, she should be able to go back.
▶ 1:44:14Mr. Kozak: What we did talk about earlier was, during the immediate aftermath of the earthquake, trying to deal with that issue in the middle of the relief effort was not good timing to introduce that element. But the bottom line is, she should be able to go back. That is the goal of the whole process. There are others from other palooka parties also.
▶ 1:44:37Sen. Shaheen: Did you discuss any timeline for when we would expect the venezuelan government to allow people who they may not agree with to come back into the country?
▶ 1:44:50Mr. Kozak: Not a specific timeline but we were discussing the benchmarks. I mentioned the 2015 national assembly of venezuela, the last democratically elected one, and one we recognized as the government of venezuela until if humans ago, reached an agreement in june with the current interim authority national assembly to set up working groups, set up
▶ 1:45:20Mr. Kozak: Conditions for elections, make any legislative changes necessary to allow people to participate without fear. That got put on pause for a little bit because after they announced it, the earthquake occurred. Just today the two sides each announced they will resume their efforts on august 1. We have two more weeks to wait and they will start working through those issues.
▶ 1:45:53Mr. Kozak: That is the process we are looking towards to get at that issue. How do you get it so she and others similarly situated can go back and not be arrested or turned around at the airport. This can't go on forever. We have made a lot of progress in getting people amnesty, people getting released from jail, but we are not there yet. This process we are hoping will serve as the vehicle for that happening.
▶ 1:46:23Sen. Shaheen: Thank you. I'm glad to hear that and certainly I think -- I think this committee would be interested in supporting that effort any way we can. The state I represent borders canada.
▶ 1:46:41Sen. Shaheen: This administration has repeatedly antagonized canada, subjecting the country to high tariff rates, withdrawing from key defense agreements -- partnerships that has increased costs for the american taxpayer and had a huge impact as I'm sure you are aware. We have lost many of our canadian tourists who have in past years been very important to our tourism industry.
▶ 1:47:09Sen. Shaheen: It has come at a cost for small businesses that do business in canada. It also pushed canada to engage with china in ways I think are not in our interest in long-term not in canada's either. But china's foreign minister a few weeks ago bragged that canada might increase exports to china by 100% by 2030.
▶ 1:47:40Sen. Shaheen: Can you give us some idea why this administration and this president have been so antagonistic to canada?
▶ 1:47:47Mr. Kozak: I wouldn't put it in terms of antagonism.
▶ 1:47:54Sen. Shaheen: I don't know what you call it. Tarifftariff they puts on, calls canada the 51st state, that is pretty antagonistic.
▶ 1:48:05Mr. Kozak: We have had some pretty good remarks from the prime minister of canada as well recently but I want to get at is the substantive issues that bind us and separate us. One of them has been to try to get canada to be more responsive on things like trade with china.
▶ 1:48:29Mr. Kozak: This is true of canada and mexico, that we want to be sure we don't have nafta rules as a backdoor for things coming in from china. You have had imbalances of trade in both countries, you also have the effort to try to get our own defense industrial base reinvigorated and not have jobs exported elsewhere.
▶ 1:49:00Mr. Kozak: All of these things bear on it.
▶ 1:49:01Sen. Shaheen: Are you suggesting our jobs are being exported to canada?
▶ 1:49:05Mr. Kozak: That some -- we have ended up not having industries here. That is more a factor with mexico than with canada.
▶ 1:49:15Sen. Shaheen: I'm really asking about canada now. In the state of new hampshire we have had jobs lost because of this administration's policy on canada.
▶ 1:49:25Mr. Kozak: You mentioned tourism jobs.
▶ 1:49:31Sen. Shaheen: Not just tourism jobs. I was in the northern part of new hampshire recently. I was told there was a manufacturing company the state of new hampshire had been working with through our bureau of industry to bring this canadian company down to a small town in northern new hampshire where they were going to bring in several hundred jobs. There were two other canadian companies interested in coming as well.
▶ 1:50:00Sen. Shaheen: They were going to bring with them they equipment they had in the company in canada, used equipment they were going to put into their manufacturing facility in new hampshire. They were going to be charged, I don't member the exact amount, but it was hundreds of thousands of dollars to bring used equipment across the border into new hampshire to provide jobs into new hampshire so they decided they weren't going to
▶ 1:50:31Sen. Shaheen: Come because they were going -- because they were charged an outrageous amount of money. How is that helpful took rating jobs in the U.S. and in new hampshire?
▶ 1:50:41Mr. Kozak: I would point back to, there is an effort here to rebalance our trading relationships with countries all around the world, not just canada. A lot of the tariffs that went on were designed to deal with that. Ustr is involved in negotiations, we are not. The trade representative is working with canada, mexico, countries around the world.
▶ 1:51:08Mr. Kozak: Adjusting tariff rates to bring that about. The thing I was mentioning, there has also been this case. Not sure if canada is the guilty party here but, you look at exports of copper in south america. All of that is going to china, not because they don't want to sell to the U.S., but because we don't have any smelters here anymore.
▶ 1:51:37Mr. Kozak: Nobody else does in the region so it is going somewhere else. We say, we want to try to encourage people to invest in the U.S., or in friendly countries with those kinds of key industrial base resources so the tariffs or for different reasons. And the ones on the trade balance side, that is what ustr is dealing with.
▶ 1:52:05Mr. Kozak: The others are trying to encourage that shift back to the U.S. in some key industries that left. We ended up with not having anything here.
▶ 1:52:14Sen. Shaheen: You haven't convinced me. Our biggest neighbor and trade partner, it is not the way to bring back industry to the U.S.
▶ 1:52:28Sen. Shaheen: I would also point out that I took a trip with a congressional delegation to canada, and I got the most biased embassy brief I have ever gotten from any embassy in the world in my 18 years in the senate from the canadian embassy. It was a bipartisan, and my republican colleague said the same. From the U.S.
▶ 1:52:57Sen. Shaheen: Embassy in canada, had never seen that kind of a biased briefing. So I would hope you would share that with the embassy so that we don't see that kind of bias in what is provided to members of congress paradigm sorry to go over, Mr. chairman. Thank you.
▶ 1:53:15Chair Curtis: Thank you to our members. Thank you to ambassador kozak. It is clear your 50 years as a diplomat has trained you well and we appreciate your cool, calm demeanor today. We appreciate you attending and providing us with your testimony and expertise. The record will remain open until close of business tomorrow, july 15. We ask the witness to respond as probably as possible.
▶ 1:53:44Chair Curtis: Your responses will be made part of the record. With that the committee thanks everybody for being here today and we are adjourned. Thank you. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]