▶ 0:17:34Chair Crapo: Committee will come to order. Thank you to our nominees, Mr. burke to Ms. brown, Dr. kothari, Mr. mcmaster for being here today. Congratulations on your nominations and thank you for your willingness to serve. This is an important and timely hearing for the finance committee. Less than two weeks ago we marked the first anniversary of the working families tax cuts.
▶ 0:18:00Chair Crapo: Over the past year, the treasury department has worked expeditiously to implement the law signature policies and to provide historic tax relief for working-class americans. While each of you have been nominated for distant roles, if confirmed, you will all oversee important work of the treasury to implement these and other policies. With a shared goal to promote domestic investment and boost economic growth.
▶ 0:18:28Chair Crapo: We will first hear from francis brooke, nominated to be deputy secretary of the treasury. The deputy secretary of the treasury assists in development of policies and also aspects of the treasury departments activities. Mr. brooke has an extensive record a public service most recently as the assistant secretary for treasury for international trade and development as well as policy director to house majority leader steve scalise and as a senior white house official during the first trump administration.
▶ 0:19:00Chair Crapo: I'm confident this extensive background in government service have prepared him to support secretary bessent in the execution of important treasury priorities including the ongoing implementation of the working families tax cut. If confirmed, look forward to working with him on promoting economic growth and delivering on historic tax relief for all americans. Next we will hear from erin browne who is nominated to serve under secretary of treasury for international affairs.
▶ 0:19:33Chair Crapo: If confirmed, Ms. browne will manage a significant portfolio of international economic matters including issues relating to global macro economic and financial development, international financial regulation, and international trade and investment. In addition, she will oversee you as participation in international financial institutions and working groups. Given her background, she is well qualified to manage these issues. Most recently, Ms.
▶ 0:20:00Chair Crapo: Browne was managing director and portfolio manager at pimco, the global asset management firm. She has also held senior positions at ubs and citigroup among other firms. If confirmed, I look forward to working with her as we ensure american leadership in a global markets. We will then hear from s.p. Kothari, who is nominated to be assistant secretary of the treasury for economic policy.
▶ 0:20:28Chair Crapo: The assistant secretary for economic policy is the department of treasury's principal economist and advises on the economic effects of tax and budget policy. Dr. kothari's robust experience in academia, government, and industry has well prepared him to buy this critical advice. Prior to his government service, Dr.
▶ 0:20:53Chair Crapo: Kothari was a professor of accounting and finance at mit's sloan school of management where he also served as deputy dean and head of the department of economics, finance, and accounting. From 2019 to 2020 one, Dr. kothari served as chief economist and director of the division of economic and risk analysis at the U.S. securities and exchange commission. Prior to his 10 year at sec come he also served, held several roles in the private sector.
▶ 0:21:23Chair Crapo: If confirmed, I'm confident his expertise will serve him well at the treasury. Finally, we will hear from hunter mcmaster who is nominated to serve as assistant secretary of the treasury for financial markets. The assistant secretary oversees a complex portfolio related to financial markets including federal debt, government credit, and lending policies. Mr. mcmaster joins the government from the private sector where he was previously head of trading at key square group.
▶ 0:21:55Chair Crapo: He is also held positions at morgan stanley and goldman sachs where he focused on foreign and interest-rate markets. Since last year, he has also served as counselor to the secretary as well as director of policy and planning. I look forward to working with him if confirmed on policy to preserve the integrity and stability of U.S. financial systems. I want to thank all of you nominees again for your time, and with that, I recognize ranking member wyden for his opening remarks.
▶ 0:22:24Sen. Wyden: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Today, the committee considers an array of trump nominees. Unfortunately, in my view, they simply are not qualified. All four of the days nominees have been chosen to serve the treasury department. That is the epicenter of the trump administration's corruption and self-dealing operations. With scott bessent at the helm.
▶ 0:22:54Sen. Wyden: The first person I believe that I will have questions for is s.p. Kothari, assistant secretary of treasury for economic policy. Earlier this year, he met with my staff on the committee, and they talked in some detail about what steps the treasury department took to assess the potential economic fallout of the trump illegal war in iran.
▶ 0:23:19Sen. Wyden: This nominee told my staff, stunningly, that he was unaware of any analysis, none whatsoever, by the treasury department, without any background on eliminating the economic impact of a war the american people didn't want to. So we had a nominee, we understood that he should have known about whether or not there have been some preparation.
▶ 0:23:50Sen. Wyden: He told the committee none, no information about how you might limit the economic impact of war. This became painfully clear when gas prices soared across the country to five, even six dollars a gallon. Prices remain high to this day and families are trying to make tough choices about whether they want to buy groceries or gas for the week.
▶ 0:24:10Sen. Wyden: Any person nominated to serve in this role to have some idea of a plan to deal with the economic challenge particularly in my view to rein in the trump economic agenda, anarchy. But this nominee, over his own admission at the treasury department, failed to do the bare minimum to protect the american people.
▶ 0:24:37Sen. Wyden: I have no reason this morning to believe that he would serve the country differently if confirmed. Next up is francis brooke, nominated to serve as deputy secretary of the treasury, the second-highest ranking position. This individual is a long and documented trump loyalist. He has already held numerous influential positions within the administration. As far as I can tell, unscathed by practical experience.
▶ 0:25:05Sen. Wyden: He has been in the treasury building for more than a year serving as acting deputy secretary since april. He was number two person at treasury when donald trump was granted his supplement or the now well-known 1.7 billion dollars slush fund, and immunity from tax audits. I find it hard to believe that Mr. brooke had no knowledge of how the stunning display of self corrupt self-dealing came to be.
▶ 0:25:30Sen. Wyden: If confirmed, my own view is he would be a rubber stamp also for whatever corrupt schemes are being plotted at treasury. Next up, erin browne has served as undersecretary of the treasury for international affairs. This person has a big job ahead of them, basically serving as the treasury department's top financial diplomat coordinating with international partners on key matters of trade and financial issues.
▶ 0:25:57Sen. Wyden: Last year, the president made it his mission to embarrass the country on the national stage by slapping tariffs on most of the world. There was no discernible goal of a plan to help workers and families. The person in this position has to have the experience necessary to help rebuild our economic trading partnerships and to do it from the ground up. I am nothing short of skeptical that these qualifications are there as we assess Ms. brown.
▶ 0:26:29Sen. Wyden: Finally, hunter mcmaster, assistant secretary for financial markets for consideration in this position. He is a bessent loyalist that pre-he worked as the head of trading at the hedge fund key square. Between the war in iran and trumps chaos in the first year and a half of the trump presidency, has in my view, plagued our global markets with uncertainty. I will be listening today carefully to determine if Mr. mcmaster will show -- I'm glad we have you there.
▶ 0:26:59Sen. Wyden: We have questions as well to assess your independence and judgment which is an important certainty that is required to help the markets be confident about the trump economic stance payment I will close with this. Donald trump is not picking his nominees based on qualifications or being well served to address the american people, he is picking them based on their willingness to enable and carry out, essentially stonewalling at the expense of the american people.
▶ 0:27:30Sen. Wyden: My own view is with respect to evaluating these nominees going into this hearing, nothing shows me that they will be anything more independent than their predecessors who addressed these issues earlier. I look forward to any chance to get into the questions, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:27:45Chair Crapo: Thank you. In a moment, we will proceed to our nominees opening statements. Before doing so, we are honored today to have the majority leader steve scalise here to introduce Mr. brooke. I will come after that, provide a short introduction for our other nominees. Majority, thank you for honoring us and bringing some of the strength and wisdom of the house over here to us in the senate. We welcome you here.
▶ 0:28:16Chair Crapo: I have enjoyed working with you over the years. I know you have a really busy schedule in the house that you had to break out of to get over here. We appreciate you taking the opportunity to do so. You may now introduce Mr. brooke.
▶ 0:28:28Sen. Scalise: Thank you, chairman crapo, ranking member wyden, all the members of the senate finance committee, it's great to be here in the senate. We have some votes on the house floor but it means a lot to be here for this moment, especially great to introduce my friend francis brooke who has been nominated by president trump to be deputy secretary of the treasury.
▶ 0:28:53Sen. Scalise: I'm proud that a former member of my team has been given this honor and I know francis' wife kaitlyn and his three children are equally proud of him. I like to share a few personal points about my friend francis. I first met francis not when he came to work on my team but actually when he was volunteering on the congressional baseball team alongside many of my colleagues and other staff. We all had a lot of fun times on the baseball field.
▶ 0:29:22Sen. Scalise: Little did I know at the time that he would end up being one of my most senior interested staffers. Before working on my staff, francis was no stranger to capitol hill, having worked on both house and senate staff. He then served in the first trump administration in various roles eventually serving as a deputy director of the national economic under larry kudlow.
▶ 0:29:46Sen. Scalise: After that, francis joined my staff in 2021 when I was the republican whip, and he stayed with me when I became house majority leader. As my policy director, he managed my policy team and was instrumental in every legislative accomplishment the house had during that time. In early 2025, he left team squeeze to head back into the trump administration to serve as assistant secretary of the treasury for international trade and development.
▶ 0:30:17Sen. Scalise: While it was a loss for me and the rest of the republican leadership, we were proud to see him move into this role at treasury to help move our agenda forward alongside the rest of the great team that president trump assembled. President trump is delivering on his promises to cut taxes and regulations, to make life more affordable for hard-working families, and make it easier for small businesses to grow and increase wages for american workers. Sec.
▶ 0:30:46Sen. Scalise: Bessent and his team at treasury have been at the tip of the spear when it comes to executing president trump's economic agenda. I was excited to see president trump nominate francis brooke to be deputy secretary. I'm confident that with francis as secretary bessent secretary, he will implement the agenda including the working families tax cuts from Mr. chairman, that you alluded to earlier, a bill that was a top priority for all of us.
▶ 0:31:17Sen. Scalise: In fact most of the members of this committee supported that important piece of legislation that has delivered for american workers. Because he was trusted, I'm familiar with francis's work ethic and his professionalism. I can think of no better person to serve as deputy secretary, and I know that his experience in the house, senate, and white house over at treasury will yield a close working relationship with all the members of this committee as well as the entire senate.
▶ 0:31:48Sen. Scalise: I'm confident president trump made the right choice in nominating francis brooke to be deputy secretary. I appreciate secretary bessent's leadership and the trust that he has placed in francis. I urge the committee and the senate to support francis's nomination. Thank you again, chairman crapo, ranking member wyden. For all the members of the committee, he appreciated the important work that you are doing here today. I yield back.
▶ 0:32:13Chair Crapo: Thank you for that introduction. Mr. brooke, you are truly honored to have the majority leader come to give you that introduction. We know the house is eagerly awaiting for you to get back to the floor, so you are excused, Mr. leader. Appreciate you being here with us this morning. I will now make a brief introduction of the other three nominees beyond what I've already said in my opening statement, and then we will have the opening statements of our nominees.
▶ 0:32:45Chair Crapo: Our second nominee is erin browne. Ms. browne is currently serving as counselor to the secretary after a distinct career in asset management. Before joining treasury, she also held senior leadership positions at pimco and ubs, asset management, following earlier roles at several leading investment firms.
▶ 0:33:06Chair Crapo: Her expertise in macro economics, markets, and global investment strategy has earned widespread recognition including being named among the one hundred most influential women in the united states finance. She earned her bachelor's degree in economics from georgetown university. Our next nominee is Dr. s.p. Kothari. Dr. kothari currently serves as senior advisor at the treasury department and brings experience across government and academia and industry.
▶ 0:33:38Chair Crapo: He previously served as chief economist and director of the division of economic and risk analysis at the securities and exchange commission as I've indicated, spent many years at mit's sloan school of management where he later served as deputy dean. His career reflects deep expertise in economic analysis, financial regulations, securities markets, and corporate governance. Our final nominee is hunter mcmaster. Mr.
▶ 0:34:04Chair Crapo: Mcmaster syrup -- serves as counselor to secretary bessent, previously performed the duties of assistant secretary of financial markets. Before joining treasury, he held senior roles in private sector including at key square group, morgan stanley, and goldman sachs where he focused on foreign and interest-rate markets. He is a graduate of washington and lee university, native of columbia, south carolina.
▶ 0:34:30Chair Crapo: To all of you, I consider you to be highly qualified, but before we proceed to your opening statements, I have four obligatory questions I'll be asked all nominees before this committee. We will begin as I ask these questions, just go down the line. You can simply answer. I hope your answers are yes. First of all, let me say, actually, I hope your answers are no on some of these. We will go down the line.
▶ 0:35:03Chair Crapo: First, is there anything that you are aware of in your background that might present a conflict of interest for the duties and the office of which you been nominated? >> no, sir. >> no, sir.
▶ 0:35:15Chair Crapo: Do you know of any reason personal or otherwise that would in any way prevent you from fully and honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to which you been nominated? >> no, sir. >> no, sir.
▶ 0:35:29Chair Crapo: Third, do you agree without reservation to respond to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of congress if confirmed? >> yes, sir. >> yes, sir.
▶ 0:35:45Chair Crapo: Do you commit to providing a prompt response and writing to any questions addressed to you by any center in this committee? >> yes, sir.
▶ 0:35:56Chair Crapo: Thank you to each of you. Mr. brooke, you may begin. We will proceed down the line with your opening statements.
▶ 0:36:05Mr. Brooke: Chairman crapo, ranking member wyden, members of this committee, I'm honored to be here with you as the nominee for deputy secretary of the department of the treasury. I would like to thank president trump for nominating me. I like to thank secretary bessent for his confidence in me. I also want to thank the members of this committee and staff were meeting with me and sharing reviews on the important issues facing our country.
▶ 0:36:29Mr. Brooke: I'd also like to thank leader scalise for his mentorship, friendship, and for introducing me today. Finally, I want to thank my wife caitlin who is here with me today as well as our three children and extended families for all their love and support. I have dedicated my career to serving the american people. I've had the great fortune working in both the house of representatives and the senate as well as the white house.
▶ 0:36:53Mr. Brooke: For the past year, I've served the department of the treasury working on a range of international, financial, and economic issues. It's been a great privilege to work to implement president trump's international economic agenda and advance america's economic interests. If confirmed as deputy secretary, I look forward to continuing this work across the department of the treasury's broad array of response abilities domestically and abroad.
▶ 0:37:18Mr. Brooke: Strong financial markets and sound economic policies are essential to our country's future and the well-being of the american people. I want to highlight three priority areas from the treasury department if confirmed. The first priority is economic growth. For the U.S. economy to continue to prosper, economic policy needs to create a stronger investment environment that drives productivity and innovation.
▶ 0:37:39Mr. Brooke: These policies include reducing government spending, eliminating redtape, advancing tax policy that rewards risk taking, and incentivizing savings with policies like trump accounts. Together these policies will create the conditions were investment in our country that increases productivity and grows the economy, delivering a better quality of life for all americans. Thanks to the working families tax cut, 97 percent of taxpayers received a tax cut this year with those benefits being concentrated on low and.
▶ 0:38:23Mr. Brooke: Second, we must continue reforming the international economic system so that it benefits the american people as well as our allies. In my current role under the sector's leadership, I'm proud of the work we are doing to enhance the united states is competitiveness in international markets and to return international financial institutions to the core mission of supporting global financial stability, economic growth, and poverty reduction.
▶ 0:38:46Mr. Brooke: We've also focused on leading internationally on setting open and secure market-based standards rewarding innovation, protecting intellectual property, and ensure competition is not distorted by discrimination. Digital assets, stable coins, tokenization, new payment systems will help to shape the future of money. United states should not consign itself to the sidelines while that future is built elsewhere.
▶ 0:39:09Mr. Brooke: We should support innovation, support the dollar's status as a reserve currency, improve efficiency, expands access, and preserves the integrity of the financial system. We should insist new technologies meet our standards for transparency, security, and consumer protection. Finally, you can I'm security is national security. We have rediscovered the wisdom of alexander hamilton that every nation ought to endeavor to possess in itself all the essentials of national supply.
▶ 0:39:38Mr. Brooke: Success in this regard also requires working with allies. Partnership with the united states is not a one-way option. It carries reciprocal obligations that are not always upheld. Issues ranging from market access to fair treatment of american companies to alignment on supply chain resilience to technology security and rules governing strategic sectors, we have made meaningful progress. United states remains the best economic partner in the world.
▶ 0:40:04Mr. Brooke: To partner with united states is to gain privileged access to the world's most important economic investment system. The world's deepest and most liquid capital markets, the world's most generous export market, the reserve currency that anchors international commerce and finance, and an open competitive system whose people, institutions, capital formation, and culture of enterprise are repeatedly pushing the front tier of innovation and productivity. These advantages are not incidental.
▶ 0:40:31Mr. Brooke: They are the product of rules, trust, scale, and shared commitments built over the past 250 years. I'm confident the work the treasury and the rest of the administration is currently engaged in a setting the stage for another 250 years of prosperity. Thank you for your time today. I look forward to answering any quick questions.
▶ 0:40:51Ms. Browne: Chairman crapo, wreck a widen, members of this committee, I'm deeply grateful to president trump for his confidence in me and his leadership in restoring an america first economic agenda that puts american workers, american industry, and american strength at the center of international economic policy. I'm also grateful to secretary bessent for his trust and his leadership.
▶ 0:41:18Ms. Browne: Before I begin, I like to introduce my family, seated behind me are my parents, my husband chris, and our five-year-old son declan who is especially excited to come to the senate today. Our younger son paxton is only three years old and while he is with us in spirit, we thought it was best to spare the committee from an endless stream of why questions. For chris and me, today is particularly meaningful. We actually met as students at georgetown university just a couple miles from here.
▶ 0:41:49Ms. Browne: After navigating the global markets in new york and newport beach, the opportunity to return to washington in service to our country is deeply humbling. I come before you after more than two decades in global financial markets, most recently serving as managing director and head of asset allocation at pimco, or my work focused on assessing geopolitical and microeconomic risks, navigating periods of financial stress, and helping safeguard the retirement savings of millions of americans
▶ 0:42:20Ms. Browne: During times of extraordinary uncertainty. Those experiences reinforce a lesson that is central to this role, economic policy is national security. And they are increasingly inseparable. For too long, however, the united states tolerated an international economic system that rewarded unfair trade practices, weakened american manufacturing, hollowed out critical supply chains, and advantaged strategic competitors at the expense of american workers.
▶ 0:42:52Ms. Browne: President trump has changed that trajectory. Under his leadership, the united states is no longer accepting an economic decline as inevitable. We are rebuilding american industrial capacity, reasserting economic sovereignty, using our economic leverage to advance the interests of the american people. If confirmed, I will advance that mission with a focus on three core priorities. First, I will work to ensure fairness and reciprocity in the global trading system.
▶ 0:43:23Ms. Browne: The united states must no longer allow nonmarket economies to exploit open markets while shielding their own industries through subsidies, currency practices, forced to technology transfer, and state directed economic policies. If confirmed, I will focus on strengthening american supply chains and promoting american economics to craft. That puts the american workers and manufacturers first.
▶ 0:43:52Ms. Browne: Second, I believe maintaining the predominance of the U.S. dollar is central to american economic and geopolitical leadership. The dollar remains the world's reserve currency because investors trust the stability of american institutions, the rule of law, and the depth of our capital markets.
▶ 0:44:11Ms. Browne: Preserving dollar dominance is not simply an economic priority, it's a strategic national advantage that strengthens american influence, reinforces our sanctions regime, lowers borrowing costs, and underpins global confidence in the united states. To sustain that leadership in the digital age, the united states must lead responsibly in financial innovation while ensuring transparency, accountability, and national security protections.
▶ 0:44:38Ms. Browne: I support the efforts to ensure that the future of digital finance is anchored firmly in the united states and governed by american rules and values. Third, economic security is national security. Treasury plays a critical role in protecting the united states from illicit finance, safeguarding sensitive technologies and capital flows, and ensuring that american capital does not strengthen the military and strategic capabilities of our adversaries.
▶ 0:45:06Ms. Browne: If confirmed, I will work aggressively to strengthen our economic defenses and preserve america's financial and technological advantages. I also believe that the united states must lead international economic institutions with clarity and purpose. Institutions such as the imf and world bank should serve the cause of stability, transparency, and market reform. Not subsidize unsustainable lending practices or increase dependence on strategic competitors.
▶ 0:45:35Ms. Browne: The american people deserve an international economic policy that prioritizes their prosperity, their security, and their future. That is what america first agenda is all about. Thank you again for the opportunity to appear before you. I'm grateful for your consideration. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:45:53Chair Crapo: Thank you very much. Mr. kothari.
▶ 0:45:57Mr. Kothari: Chairman crapo, ranking member wyden, members of the committee, it is an honor to appear before you today as you consider my nomination to serve as an assistant secretary of the treasury. I would like to thank president trump for this opportunity to serve our country and secretary bessent for his confidence in me.
▶ 0:46:22Mr. Kothari: I'm also grateful to the members and staff of this committee who have taken the time to meet with me. I have appreciated these opportunities to discuss your priorities, and if confirmed, I look forward to working together . I would also like to thank my family my first my wife daphne, who is here today. Daphne and I met in rochester, new york 38 years ago and have been happily married for the past 36 years.
▶ 0:46:51Mr. Kothari: I'm deeply grateful to daphne for her support and love. Next, I'm blessed with two beautiful accomplished daughters , two precocious grandkids. My two sons in law are both amazing.
▶ 0:47:12Mr. Kothari: Finally, my parents, both deceased my words cannot adequately express my gratitude for the countless sacrifices they made while raising me. I am fortunate to have had a long career in academia at m.I.t. And university of rochester.
▶ 0:47:34Mr. Kothari: In university and the nutrition as deputy due for faculty at mit's sloan school of management, and in the private sector as global head of equity research at barclays bank. I also have the privilege to serve as the chief economist at the securities and exchange commission and the president's first term. Economic incentives, evidence, and fairness and for my work.
▶ 0:48:01Mr. Kothari: I crafted securities regulations that enhance transparency and protect investors without unduly burdening corporations with compliance costs. If confirmed, I would be honored to return to government service and continue with the president and treasury secondary's efforts to meet the new challenges and opportunities we face today. Treasury's responsibility's vitally important.
▶ 0:48:31Mr. Kothari: American's liberty and prosperity depend on treasury's ability to protect the integrity of financial systems and our tax code. And to advance policies that foster economic growth. The office of economic policy is essential in executing these response abilities. First, the office reviews, analyzes, and reports on current and prospective economic developments and domestic and international economies and financial markets.
▶ 0:49:04Mr. Kothari: It also assist the treasury secretary in determining appropriate economic policies. Second, the office participates along with the council of economic advisers and the office of management and budget in the preparation of the administration's budget. Third, the office supports the treasury secretary in the roles as chairman, and managing trustee of the social security and medicare board of trustees.
▶ 0:49:32Mr. Kothari: Finally, the office conducts research to assist in the formulation and articulation of micro and macro economic public policies and positions of the treasury department. I believe in having a close working relationship with congress. The office of economic policy provides congress information about the health of the economy, employment, interest rates, and tax revenues.
▶ 0:49:59Mr. Kothari: If confirmed, I hope to be informed by my experience in industry, academia, and past work at the sec when working with congress. Finally, if confirmed, I pledge that I will honor the office of the economic policies's proud track record of consistently providing unbiased economic information and sound advice toward furthering the goals of the treasury department, treasury secretary, and the president.
▶ 0:50:32Mr. Kothari: Leading treasury's office of economic policy which houses some of the world's most talented economists is a special privilege. I would be honored to call them my colleagues and I promise to work faithfully and vigorously to serve the department, and to enhance it for the future occupants of the office. Thank you again for your time today. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:50:55Chair Crapo: Thank you Mr. mcmaster.
▶ 0:51:00Mr. Mcmaster: Chairman crapo, ranking member wyden, distinct members of the committee. It is the highest honor of my life to appear before you today as nominee of assistant secretary on financial markets. At the united states department of the treasury. I like to thank president trump for the opportunity to serve our country and secretary bessent for his confidence in me both in this nomination and over the past several years.
▶ 0:51:26Mr. Mcmaster: I'm also grateful to the members and staff of this committee who have taken the time to meet with me. I've greatly valued our discussions and if confirmed, look forward to working together. I first would like to recognize my parents. I've been deeply blessed by their unwavering support, steadfast love, and wise counsel. Even through life's most pressing trials, my parents have demonstrated faith, integrity, and trust in god's plan. A lesson of which I'm profoundly grateful.
▶ 0:51:55Mr. Mcmaster: I would also like to think -- recognize my brother and sister, their spouses, and my nieces and nephews. Their support has been indispensable. Finally, I like to thank god for blessing me with the opportunity to appear before this committee. Throughout my professional career, I have focused on financial markets. After graduating from college, number 50 to a large financial institutions focusing on foreign exchange and interest rates.
▶ 0:52:24Mr. Mcmaster: In 2023, secretary bessent gave me the opportunity to serve as head of trading at key square group. These experiences have allowed me to develop an expertise in macro economics. However, nothing compares to the privilege of serving at the united states treasury, nor the opportunity to be nominated for this position. Among the incredible strength of the united states, abundant resources, and during constitution, a dynamic economy, enterprising population, the primacy of our capital markets cannot be overstated.
▶ 0:52:55Mr. Mcmaster: The strength of america's capital markets isn't just a point of pride, it's a cornerstone of our economic leadership. Investors, domestic and foreign, choose the united states because we offer transparency, stability, and rule of law. Our capital markets feel innovation, support businesses, enable millions of americans to save for retirement, bolster national security, and raise standards of living. At the core of the system is the U.S. treasury market, the deepest and most liquid market in the world. The U.S.
▶ 0:53:25Mr. Mcmaster: Dollar serves as the world reserve currency and U.S. treasuries as the world's reserve asset. This unique position underpins borrowing costs across our economy. The office of financial markets plays a central role in safeguarding america's global economic leadership. The office helps finance the nation of the lowest cost to taxpayers over time and promotes deep competitive and well-regulated capital markets that support investment and economic growth.
▶ 0:53:53Mr. Mcmaster: If confirmed, I would build upon the strong foundation established by my predecessor's while bringing a market informed perspective shaped by years of analyzing capital flows, investor behavior, and global financial conditions. My experience has given me a deep appreciation for the importance of transparency, liquidity, and investor confidence in preserving the strength of the U.S. financial system. However, I recognize the enduring strength of our markets ultimately comes from the american people.
▶ 0:54:22Mr. Mcmaster: The millions of workers, sabers, retirees, and investors whose participation power our economy. My goal will be to enhance the primacy of our financial markets, understanding the great citizens of this country are the most powerful economic force in the world. My priority will be to advance president trump, secretary bessent's commitments to strong, and vibrant capital markets can preserve the central role of U.S.
▶ 0:54:47Mr. Mcmaster: Treasuries as the world's premier reserve asset, and expand opportunities for americans to invest with confidence. I will work to support policies that strengthen market integrity, foster capital formation, and maintain stability that underpins america's economic leadership. Edmund burke said a disposition to reserve and an ability to improve taken together would be his standard of a statesman.
▶ 0:55:12Mr. Mcmaster: Under the leadership of president trump and secretary bessent, if confirmed, that would be my standard as assistant secretary for financial markets hunter. . Thank you for your time today. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:55:24Chair Crapo: Thank you. I will start with you, Mr. brooke. Last summer, the republicans acted to prevent what would've been the largest tax increase in american history and delivered meaningful progrowth tax relief through the working families tax cuts. Providing much-needed support to american workers and families. Can you discuss briefly the status of treasury's ongoing work to implement the working families tax cuts?
▶ 0:56:25Mr. Brooke: Thank you so much, senator. I want to start by thanking you for your leadership on getting this bill passed. As you know, it's no easy feat. Appreciate the work that you and your staff there to make it a reality. Treasury and iris are moving as quickly as we can to let the working families tax cuts. Issuing dozens of significant guidance documents since enactment. Importantly, this work helps to deliver the most successful policies in american history. Over six to 3 million filers claimed at least one of president trump's signature tax cuts, no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, enhance senior deduction, and no tax on car loan interests. Benefits have been concentrated mainly among households earning less than $200,000. Very proud of the work. If confirmed, looking forward to working with you to continue the agenda.
▶ 0:56:43Chair Crapo: Thank you. That work is appreciated. Ms. browne, maintaining U.S. leadership and international economic issues have been a priority of congress and of this committee. Can you speak your ongoing work at the treasury department to prepare for the upcoming U.S. presidency at the g20?
▶ 0:57:02Ms. Browne: Thank you, senator, for the question. Lovely to meet you yesterday. Under secretary bessent's leadership, treasury is preparing a focused, results oriented g20 presidency that returns the forum toward core economic mission. That is stronger growth, reduced regulatory burdens, correction of excessive global influences, and a more resilient international financial system.
▶ 0:57:33Ms. Browne: My work thus far at treasury has focused on bringing together these core deliverables to concrete action including on deck transparency, digital assets, cross-border payments, and secure food and fertilizer supply chains. If confirmed, I will ensure our presidency advances president trump's america first agenda and produces tangible benefits for american workers, american farmers, and american businesses.
▶ 0:58:01Chair Crapo: Thank you very much. Dr. kothari, you have significant public and private sector experience in economics including as a professor at m.I.t.. Could you explain how your experience in the public and private sector have prepared you for the role as treasury's chief economist?
▶ 0:58:24Mr. Kothari: Thank you, center for the question. I really enjoyed meeting yesterday, so thank you for the time payment I have been incredibly fortunate in all of my professional endeavors. I have had a long career as an academic, at m.I.t. And at university of rochester, and that has been the highlight of my career.
▶ 0:58:49Mr. Kothari: My experience in the public and private sector has required me to think critically, conduct extensive research, and tackle economic, financial, and accounting problems from all angles. I was the editor of the journal for 23 years.
▶ 0:59:10Mr. Kothari: That meant that submissions of all topics came across my desk, and I had to think critically about whether or not to accept those manuscripts. In short, if confirmed, I plan to use the same approach to this role, that is to think critically about economic issues and render an opinion.
▶ 0:59:32Chair Crapo: Thank you. Finally, Mr. mcmaster, the treasury department plays an important role in promoting domestic economic growth and ensuring leadership in global finance. Can you speak to your commitment to ensuring the united states remains the leader in financial markets?
▶ 0:59:53Mr. Mcmaster: Thank you for the question, senator. Thank you for the time yesterday. As I said to my opening statement, the dollar is the world reserve currency, and as such, treasury is the world reserve asset. This is because over the last 50 years, treasury has issued debt in a way that is to the lowest possible cost to taxpayer overtime in a regular and printable manner, -- printable manner.
▶ 1:00:23Mr. Mcmaster: Seeking to of all issuance with market practices and structural changes and demand. I commit to to continuing that practice, ensure we have a broad base of investors that value the U.S. treasury system.
▶ 1:00:35Sen. Wyden: Thank you very much, Mr. chairman. Let me start with you, Mr. brooke. In particular, I want to see if we can reconcile what you told me in the office yesterday and what we found in treasury records last night. In the office yesterday, you told me you had nothing to do with the trump audit immunity deal. In fact, you said that you did not know anything about it.
▶ 1:01:03Sen. Wyden: So, that was your position yesterday. A treasury press release on april 28, nearly a month before the audit immunity deal announced that you were performing the duties of deputy secretary. Let me ask you again. As the second in command at treasury, what was treasury's involvement in the trump audit immunity deal?
▶ 1:01:30Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator, thank you for the time yesterday. You give me a homework assignment, appreciate you letting me know that you would ask the question today. Sorry to disappoint you but I have the same answer as yesterday. I did not work on this matter. My understanding it is subject to ongoing litigation and I recommend that you talk to the justice department.
▶ 1:01:51Sen. Wyden: You are second in command at treasury, and there is this tax deal going forward, and you didn't know anything about it, didn't participate and it, even though treasury so that you are a two there? It is hard to reconcile the two.
▶ 1:02:06Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question. I did not work on that matter.
▶ 1:02:10Sen. Wyden: Just this week, a district court ruled that the iris image he granted to trump my family and businesses was illegal, but no one in the administration said it will not be followed. Yes or no, does the audit immunity deal standup today?
▶ 1:02:29Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator. As I said, this is subject to ongoing litigation and I referred to the justice department.
▶ 1:02:37Sen. Wyden: With respect to this litigation, this is not active litigation. This was an illegal executive action, and you were already acting as deputy sec. When the sweetheart deal was announced. It is getting harder and harder to reconcile these various statements that you are making now. Does a deal still stand as of today?
▶ 1:03:00Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator. In addition to the previous comment I made, one other thing that we talked about yesterday is the importance of taxpayer confidentiality in section 6103. Treasury and iris cannot comment on matters regarding taxpayer audits because that would violate taxpayer privacy laws and a violation of the statute.
▶ 1:03:20Sen. Wyden: We are not asking that you get into 6103 privacy issues. We have a lot of privacy hawks who want to understand the process. I will tell you, what you said to me in the office yesterday and a pretty hard to reconcile with what I've heard this morning. Let me move on. Career iris attorneys wrote a 25-page memo preparing defenses against trump's lawsuit, recommended that doj moved to have a lawsuit dismissed.
▶ 1:03:49Sen. Wyden: The irs reportedly gave the memo to treasury people in april before the settlement. When you were performing the functions of the deputy secretary. Did you see that memo?
▶ 1:03:58Mr. Brooke: I do not recall seeing that memo, senator.
▶ 1:04:01Sen. Wyden: Are you saying some mid-level treasury official interfered with blocking the iris legal opinion on something this sensitive?
▶ 1:04:09Mr. Brooke: I do not know, senator.
▶ 1:04:12Sen. Wyden: So basically, you are answering all the questions -- I will ask one more. Three days before trump filed a lawsuit, treasury abruptly canceled the contracts of bruce allen, a contractor whose employees leaked the tax returns. This time it is hard again to reconcile ache a coincidence. Were you involved in that decision?
▶ 1:04:32Mr. Brooke: I was not, senator.
▶ 1:04:35Sen. Wyden: I find it just absurd that, as the number two position, you didn't know much of anything, and you have been dodging all the questions. Dodged them yesterday afternoon, this morning. I suspect people up to the highest levels in the treasury department had a hand in crafting what I think is one of the most corrupt deals in the history of the united states.
▶ 1:05:00Sen. Wyden: Having you dodge all the questions and not reconciling what you said yesterday with what you are saying today, I think is disqualifying. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:05:07Chair Crapo: Senator daines.
▶ 1:05:13Sen. Daines: Congratulations to each of the nominees here today. Thank you for the willingness to jump back into the arena and serve. In partnership with the administration, this congress has taken historic steps to advance american leadership in digital assets. In fact, we have established the first federal regulatory framework for payment stable coins through the genius act. I remain hopeful that congress will finish the work we started on digital assets market structure legislation.
▶ 1:05:40Sen. Daines: But there is one very important piece of the framework that is unfinished, that is the tax code. The current tax code forces taxpayers to apply rules written decades before a block chain technology even existed. Taxpayers deserve rules they can understand. The iris deserves a rules it can administer, and the american onto printers deserve certainty that allows them to build their businesses here, rather than overseas.
▶ 1:06:12Sen. Daines: My comprehensive digital asset tax framework that I've been developing over the past year would accomplish those goals. It is built around some common principles. Reduce unnecessary complexity, increase compliance, protect the tax base, and keep digital asset jobs and innovation here in the united states. This is not about giving digital assets special treatment.
▶ 1:06:40Sen. Daines: Where digital assets function like securities or commodities, my proposal applies for tax principles including wash sale rules, constructive sale rules, and elective mark to market regime. Where block chain technology creates genuinely different transactions, the proposal provides tailored rules for stable coin payments, network fees, staking, lending, investment trust, passive validation activity, and charitable contributions.
▶ 1:07:10Sen. Daines: Importantly, it appears this common sense relief with strong guardrails to prevent abuse. The administration has made clear that america should lead the digital asset economy. We need now here in congress to finish the tax side of that ledger in the finance committee. Mr.
▶ 1:07:30Sen. Daines: Brooke, can you explain how a comprehensive framework that would reduce needless complexity apply traditional tax safeguards, where appropriate, and include strong anti-abuse rules could improve compliance, while at the same time, protecting the tax base?
▶ 1:07:49Mr. Brooke: Thank you, senator, thank you for your leadership on this issue. I know you and your office have been working hard on this over the past year. In the interim, we been doing the best we can with current laws and regulations. This is exactly why we need to clearly act to pass, why we need to move forward on proposals related to taxes for cryptocurrency. We need to make sure the united states is the leader, we are the one setting the standards.
▶ 1:08:17Mr. Brooke: We need to incentivize that innovation takes place in the united states, not abroad. This allows us to have more compliance with tax laws and also ensures that anti-money laundering and it was a finance can be tracked. People are held accountable for their actions. I want to thank you for your leadership. If confirmed, would love to work with you to get this across the finish line. >> Dr. kothari, you spent your career studying how government rules affect markets, affect capital formation. Affect economic behavior.
▶ 1:08:49Mr. Brooke: Could you tell us what the consequences might be for american competitiveness if congress continues to leave digital asked taxpayers and businesses without clear and administering double tax rules?
▶ 1:09:08Mr. Kothari: Thank you for the question. I enjoyed meeting your staffers earlier. Businesses crave for transparency. Clarity of rules. Fuzzy rules around both competitiveness as well as innovative capacity of the businesses. So if the U.S.
▶ 1:09:30Mr. Kothari: Has to maintain a leadership position in digital assets, digital currency, then we need a regime that is clear in terms of rules of engagement. Also we have to enforce those laws.
▶ 1:09:52Mr. Kothari: I would say that not having clarity around -- not to make it a pun, but not having clarity on the clarity act is fatal to the development and competitiveness of U.S. markets.
▶ 1:10:09Sen. Daines: Thank you. That is why we have staff. They have clever names for our bills. Thank you, Dr. kothari. Thank you, Mr. chairman. I enjoyed our visit and I know the last time you were before the nomination panel, you didn't get any questions, slung going to make sure you get all my questions today. I do want you to hear this.
▶ 1:10:42Sen. Daines: The bipartisan group is still trying to get a clarity act done. We touched on this briefly. You would not want a clarity act that increased the ability of illicit finance to take place under the blessings of law, would you?
▶ 1:11:00Mr. Brooke: It's vital that the clarity act provides rules for the treasury department and the administration. >> if the trump department of justice with technical assistance said the standard proposed by industry and some of my republican colleagues would actually make it easier for illicit finance to take place. That would concern you, wouldn't it?
▶ 1:11:29Mr. Brooke: It would be concerning, yes.
▶ 1:11:35Sen. Warner: I want this done. I am tired of being in crypto hell. I want america to lead in digital assets. The downside ramifications could be huge as well. I also want to hit you with two other comments.
▶ 1:11:55Sen. Warner: One, because my good friend the chairman and I and many on this committee have been big advocates, your boss, the secretary, I just came from downstairs thinking my head was going to explode from the director reluctant to approve funds. He stated that they've all been released.
▶ 1:12:24Sen. Warner: I don't trust that so I have to find out if it's true. If you become secretaries with you follow the treasury secretary to make sure that when congress appropriates funds, you will not allow what I would call a bureaucratic position to overrule what congress and your boss would support?
▶ 1:12:50Mr. Brooke: I know how important cdfi's are.
▶ 1:12:55Sen. Warner: Can for the chairman.
▶ 1:12:57Mr. Brooke: And a lot of other members not only on this committee but across the senate and in congress in general. If confirmed I commit to work to get the money out as fast and responsibly as possible.
▶ 1:13:11Sen. Warner: Did you hear yes, Mr. chairman? >> it was intended as a yes.
▶ 1:13:17Sen. Warner: It can only get better from the last year. The other topic that an kind of obsessed about is ai. I think the release of mythos from a national security standpoint was a game changer, particularly from the finance world.
▶ 1:13:41Sen. Warner: And as we discussed, mythos is almost yesterday's news because we seem to or three more iterations of different models move quicker. Thank goodness the ceo was responsible enough to say hey, let's share this with government. How can we go forward with a voluntary prerelease testing machine?
▶ 1:14:05Sen. Warner: And again, the administration look like, going to be stable, but there may even the issues there. This ad hoc approach, I know the devil is in the details, it needs to be beyond just government. But do you have any thoughts on that?
▶ 1:14:29Mr. Brooke: We had a great conversation about this and I hope to continue that going forward. One of the great things about being able to share it voluntarily was that innovation was done in america and by an american company. It's important we insure the united states remains in the lead in ai.
▶ 1:14:49Sen. Warner: If this was a new car release and it was made in china and it came with no safety precautions at all, there would be a regime in place to not allow it to drive on the roads.
▶ 1:15:05Mr. Brooke: I don't know that it would or should be up to me but I would say that this is a very important issue that congress works out.
▶ 1:15:16Sen. Warner: I think there are few issues as important as ai. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> I would encourage all the witnesses to pull the microphone a little closer to you as you respond. >> thank you all for being here. Thank you, chairman. When we met, we had a conversation about a very significant series of warnings that are out there that I've been to general category.
▶ 1:15:48Sen. Warner: Climate risk, insurance markets. When insurance markets suffer, that clubbers mortgage markets. When mortgage markets suffer, that clobbers property values. When property values crash, that leads to economic, widespread economic distress. What congress would call systemic risk.
▶ 1:16:13Sen. Warner: What I'd like all of you to pay attention to is some of the places where these warnings are coming from. They include fed chair powell morning the senate banking committee that in 10-15 years it would be impossible to get insurance for a mortgage in certain coastal and fire-prone regions of the country.
▶ 1:16:37Sen. Warner: A board member of the biggest insurance company in the world warned that climate risk is threatening the very underpinnings of the insurance model and when that fails, that cascades into real estate. I'm not familiar, unlike senator warner, with high finance. But he also warned that insurance failure would compromise significant financial deals in which an insurance component is what holds the deal together.
▶ 1:17:10Sen. Warner: The U.S. president of a on testified before the budget committee. Climate risk is a global systemic risk, just as the U.S. economy was overexposed to mortgage risk in 2008. The economy today is overexposed to climate risk. The former chief economist of freddie mac with the first mortgage guy to talk about this.
▶ 1:17:33Sen. Warner: He described the same cascade that I described and said you look at the housing crisis of 2007-2008, it was a long time before property values came back, but they did come back. This is a different type of dynamic or property values are probably physically unable to come back. So this equity looks lost forever, it's extremely difficult to estimate. I'm not sure I have enough zeros to do it.
▶ 1:18:00Sen. Warner: The mortgage bankers association, not exactly a green vote has stated the chronic physical risk associated with climate change may exceed the capacity of insurance and government assistance. To sustain scenarios.
▶ 1:18:15Sen. Warner: The economist magazine warned of a $25 trillion hit global real estate markets looming, saying if the size of the risk suddenly sinks in and borrowers and lenders alike realize the collateral underpinning so many transactions is not worth as much as they thought, a wave of repricing would reverberate through markets.
▶ 1:18:45Sen. Warner: Climate change could prompt the next global company crash. The international financial stability board put out a similar warning to the international banking community, warning that the climate risk cascade risks putting banks out. Clearly if collateral value is going to crash, ratios are affected and solvency is affected as well. I commend that report to you. It is heavy going but it is a pretty dire warning.
▶ 1:19:14Sen. Warner: It is not just them, we have testimony from the former risk manager of goldman sachs. We had testimony from the former head of the bank of england, now the prime minister of canada. And we had testimony in the budget committee from nobel prize-winning economist joseph stiglitz. That's a pretty broad array of warnings. I'm afraid we are going beyond warnings in florida.
▶ 1:19:43Sen. Warner: The climate risk in florida is now so significant that florida's insurance system is compromised and is not resilient enough to sustain any significant claims pressure. The result of that is that mortgages are increasingly hard to get in florida. They have to go to fannie and freddie. No wants to hold a mortgage in florida. To get there they have to have insurance.
▶ 1:20:11Sen. Warner: I urge you to take a look at demotech. It's the name of the company providing most of the ratings and order that is given a-rating to pop up insurance companies that have been gone bust when they are presented with claims. When that is a failure, then florida mortgages can't get into fannie and freddie any longer. Then you have a real sudden housing emergency on your hands in florida.
▶ 1:20:42Sen. Warner: And finally, the last stage of property value loss that happens in mortgages become systemically unavailable, florida is leaving the country right now in property value loss. So please take that to heart. Treasury has an insurance department. Ask them the right questions and pay attention. >> senator marshall?
▶ 1:21:07Senator Marshall: Thank you chairman and welcome to our nominees. I have a question for each one of you so I am looking for a 30-45 second answer if possible. The first one is for Mrs. browne. How is your time in the private sector prepare you for a role as undersecretary for international affairs?
▶ 1:21:25Mrs. Browne: Thank you for that question. My career spanned 25 years in the private sector leading asset management firms and with that, I've always brought practical market discipline, a disciplined decision-making and a real appreciation for how financial markets work and the interaction of how it affects everyday americans and everyday businesses.
▶ 1:21:51Mrs. Browne: And I think that based on my experience, I've spent the last 25 years at really the intersection of global macro economics, global capital flows, the dollar, and how that translates into actual policy actions. And so I think that my experience having sat at the heart of global financial markets will bring a lot of discipline and a lot of action to the priorities of the trump administration.
▶ 1:22:15Sen. Marshall: Great. Mr. brooke, based upon your years of experience pitching batting practice at the congressional baseball team and spending time in the bullpen with the pitchers, which congressional member had the best curveball in your humble opinion?
▶ 1:22:35Mr. Brooke: That would be senator marshall, sure.
▶ 1:22:38Sen. Marshall: Thank you. I want to submit that for the record that senator marshall had the best curveball. His fastball left in about a decade ago. Let's talk about trump accounts. I'm excited, I have a new granddaughter, she was born on the fourth of july so it is exciting. How do you see, what is the vision, what is the impact that could have for america?
▶ 1:23:01Mr. Brooke: Thank you so much, senator. It really is merging wall street and main street. It is an opportunity for every child under eight need to have a stake in the capital of the economic success of our country. We are seeing philanthropists like michael dell and others donating everything from stock to gifts to provide opportunity for these kids where they will have a retirement account right out of the gate.
▶ 1:23:28Mr. Brooke: And there is successful launch, we are looking to make sure we get many signed up across the country.
▶ 1:23:34Sen. Marshall: Teaching americans to save money is a good one. Mr. kothari, you don't have to answer this question but I'm really excited about quantum computing. Do you think there's opportunities, do you see a future for quantum computing in your world? Any thoughts?
▶ 1:23:56Mr. Kothari: Thank you for the question, senator. I've really enjoyed meeting you.
▶ 1:24:03Sen. Marshall: You answered the question then, right? Sorry.
▶ 1:24:09Mr. Kothari: I've heard the term quantum computing and I know that it is the next frontier, if you will. And it will dramatically change the game because the speed of computing would be so much faster at the same time allowing the standard of many roadblocks to pass.
▶ 1:24:32Mr. Kothari: So I think america should be emphasizing innovation and entrepreneurship, and that is the solution to many problems including climate change that Mr. whitehouse talked of.
▶ 1:24:45Sen. Marshall: There is some downside, some risk to it as well, but we can't have our head in the sand. I'm always looking for better data, more accurate data. Quicker data as well. Mr. mcmaster, strong capital markets. Why are those important to americans? And more specifically, hard-working americans, small businesses, those types of things?
▶ 1:25:14Mr. Mcmaster: Thank you for the question and I appreciate the time you allowed me to meet with you. As I said in my opening statement, strong capital markets and transparent capital markets that fuel innovation, support businesses both small and large and enable millions of americans to save for retirement. They bolster our national security. So I commit to you today to continue to work with my predecessors in promoting strong capital markets in the united states.
▶ 1:25:43Sen. Marshall: Does anybody else want to talk about quantum computing with me? I'm just really excited. Probably more excited about this than even ai. Anybody working on this?
▶ 1:25:55Mr. Brooke: I would just say how exciting it is, and one of the great things is that we make r&d permanence of the companies are incentivized to make these investments in these breakthrough technologies.
▶ 1:26:09Sen. Marshall: That's great, coming back to working on the tax cuts. Mr. chairman, you are just in time for me to yield back. You missed the fact that one of our nominees agrees that roger marshall out the best curveball of any of the former congressional members. Thank you, I yield back. >> I don't find that personally threatening.
▶ 1:26:38Sen. Marshall: [laughter] senator hassan.
▶ 1:26:43Senator Hassan: Good morning to the nominees and congratulations on your nominations and thank you and your families for your willingness to serve. I'm going to start with a question that I ask every nominee these days. And I'll start with you, Mr. brooke. This is a simple couple aboard answer, yes or no. If elected by the president to take an action that would break the law, when you follow the law or follow the president?
▶ 1:27:11Mr. Brooke: I would follow the law.
▶ 1:27:14Mrs. Browne: I will always follow the law.
▶ 1:27:16Mr. Kothari: I don't expect the president to ask me to perform anything illegal, but nonetheless, I would say I would follow the law.
▶ 1:27:30Mr. Mcmaster: I would follow the law.
▶ 1:27:33Sen. Hassan: You should pay attention to the news, because the president doing things that break the law or instructing others is a regular occurrence. Mr. brooke, I'm going to start with a simple question for you. Do you think that grocery prices are too high for american families right now?
▶ 1:27:49Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question. It's been a huge priority at the treasury department to bring more affordability to the economy writ large. Core inflation has been coming down, we saw a good 0.4% decrease --
▶ 1:28:04Sen. Hassan: Do you think grocery prices are too high right now?
▶ 1:28:07Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question senator, I think we are going to continue working every day --
▶ 1:28:11Sen. Hassan: I am concerned that both you and secretary bessent won't just acknowledge that people are they struggling but in this country with like grocery prices. The economic committee has found that americans pay $310 more for groceries in president trump's first year compared to 2024, and grocery prices are now more than 4% higher than when president trump took office last year, and you should know that.
▶ 1:28:41Sen. Hassan: Let's go to what I hope is an easier question. Do you think that gas prices are too high for american families right now?
▶ 1:28:47Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator. We saw a 9% decrease over the past month and we are working every day --
▶ 1:28:55Sen. Hassan: Again, so here are the facts. The joint economic committee found that americans have paid $56.4 billion more for gasoline since the start of the presidents war with iran. That works out to an additional $477 for an average family. So it is absurd to me that you and sec. Bessent and president trump can't even say gas, gas prices are too high.
▶ 1:29:26Sen. Hassan: Headlines this morning in some parts of the country they are over five dollars again. That's too high along with all the other costs that are going up for america's families. Mrs. browne, a question for you. Fentanyl traffic into the united states and scam compounds in southeast asia the target americans both depend on sophisticated international money laundering networks including criminal networks tied to actors in china.
▶ 1:29:50Sen. Hassan: What would be your strategy for using treasury's relationship with finance ministries and central banks and multilateral organizations to increase international action against criminals tat that harm americans?
▶ 1:30:05Mrs. Browne: I appreciate the question. As you know during the g20 presidency this year which america leading as well as part of the g7 which we had the presidency for next year, financial fraud and financial crime is an important part of the dialogue that we are having with our g20 parties. This is something critical to the secretary, critical to the president and really made one of the cornerstones of the dialogue that we are having along our g20 artist.
▶ 1:30:35Sen. Hassan: I appreciate the dialogue. What are some of your thoughts about what that dialogue should produce?
▶ 1:30:41Mrs. Browne: Absolutely. Amongst the g20 we just released a working paper on this exact topic, specifically looking at early intervention and early education. And we think that education along the course of someone's life cycle is incredibly important in order to inform different individuals what the risks are out there. Very early in your life is different from later in your life in terms of the scams that people are being approached with.
▶ 1:31:10Mrs. Browne: So we think that education is an important tool in having accountability and transparency for that is important.
▶ 1:31:15Sen. Hassan: As a separate issue, I'm going to follow-up on the fentanyl part of this question in a question for the record as a running out of time. But let me be really clear. Senator scott and I introduced a bill to centralize reporting of scams in this country so that we can have a more coordinated -- you know, state, local law enforcement, they are all working around the clock. But I want to just be really clear. It is not just older people being scammed.
▶ 1:31:43Sen. Hassan: It is not people who lack sophistication. Ai has produced scams now that are incredibly sophisticated. They convince people to act quickly. It's really critical that we get international partners to go after these scam compounds and after these transnational criminal organizations.
▶ 1:32:02Sen. Hassan: Just to be clear, there are estimates now that the transnational scamming criminal organizations are costing the global economy more than the illicit drug trade, up to over $1 trillion I think in 2025. So it's really important that we encourage people to come forward and that we don't stigmatize people who have been victimized by scams because people from every walk of life at every age are victimized. Thanks.
▶ 1:32:32Sen. Hassan: >> senator blackburn.
▶ 1:32:36Senator Blackburn: Enke to each of you for being here and congratulations on your nomination. Mr. brooke, I want to start with you. I think that one of the things we did well in the working families tax cut big beautiful bill was the creation of the trump accounts.
▶ 1:33:00Senator Blackburn: And I am thrilled that these are off to a good start and I've done an event earlier this year, but what we are hearing in tennessee is that people are pleased with this, they like the accounts. They want more information about how they can elevate this and help grow that nest egg for their children.
▶ 1:33:31Senator Blackburn: So I've been like for you to talk about what you are going to do to continue to increase awareness and continue to expand these so that we open that financial opportunity for more families.
▶ 1:33:49Mr. Brooke: Thank you so much for the question and thank you for your leadership on this issue. I know the secretary had a great time a couple weeks ago in tennessee with you, so thank you for that. We don't totally agree that trump accounts are vital and we view this in a couple stage approach. First a very substantial launch, over 6.5 million kids enrolled. Secondly, we are working to try to make sure there is more awareness and more people are involved in the program.
▶ 1:34:16Sen. Blackburn: How are you doing that?
▶ 1:34:18Mr. Brooke: Social security administration announced last week that we are going to be including, when you try to get a social security card for a newborn child, a box right there. We are looking at other avenues for auto-enroll and hopefully we would love to work with that with you as well if confirmed.
▶ 1:34:37Sen. Blackburn: I think building that awareness is going to be important, now what about partners across the company -- a country at the state level? Are you all developing partnerships?
▶ 1:34:49Mr. Mcmaster: Mr. brooke: we are. We are partnered with state and local governments, also looking at distribution partners, engaging with banks, other financial institutions. Anywhere that people are connected to the financial system they should people do have the opportunity to be part of this program and learn about it. We provide such a benefit financially but also with respect to financial literacy. It's a game changer if we get it right.
▶ 1:35:13Sen. Blackburn: As we've worked on this trump account issue, I have so many times thought about when I was a kid and at that point we had a savings account, had a passbook, and we would take birthday money, holiday money to the bank, put it in the account and then we would see that interest and see how that balance grew. I really like this concept. Mrs.
▶ 1:35:43Sen. Blackburn: Browne, I want to come to you. I have talked a good bit. This committee as we were working on the working families tax cuts about exports, looking at trade tariffs, the effects there. Soybeans are tennessee's number one ag export. So we continue to work with ustr on this.
▶ 1:36:12Sen. Blackburn: Now, china has historically been the most important export market not only for tennessee soybeans, but U.S. soybeans in total. So we are grateful that president trump has secured a commitment from the chinese on the 25 million metric tons of soybeans through 2028, and we know treasury plays a central role in monitoring these agreements with beijing.
▶ 1:36:45Sen. Blackburn: We know that during the biden years they did not meet their quotas and this is a problem for us. So I want to hear from you what you are going to do to make certain that they are held to account for what they've agreed to do.
▶ 1:37:00Mrs. Browne: Thank you for your question and thank you for raising this issue. It's incredibly important to the secretary as well as myself that we hold trading partners accountable for the commitments that they are making and as you noted, for far too long we haven't held out counterparties accountable for their actions and their unfair trade practices against the united states. Notwithstanding the trade commitments that they've made in terms of purchases of products such as soybeans.
▶ 1:37:32Mrs. Browne: If confirmed, I will work to bring transparency, accountability, and certainty in terms there maintaining those commitments, watching them on a quarterly basis, ensuring that our parties are meeting the obligations they are setting forth without us with the secretary and with the president.
▶ 1:37:51Sen. Blackburn: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> senator warner. Warren.
▶ 1:38:03Senator Warren: As part of donald trump's crusade to be legally abolished the department of education, trump has moved the management of defaulted student loans from the education department over to the treasury department. Make no mistake, this is not a decision that is made to try to help people who are dealing with student loans, it's just a political stunt.
▶ 1:38:26Senator Warren: In fact, instead of helping families get out of default, the trump administration has repeatedly jacked up costs for borrowers. Trump's latest move, killing the most affordable student loan repayment plan in history for millions of borrowers. Now families, no surprise, are facing the biggest student loan default prices in recorded history.
▶ 1:38:58Senator Warren: You happen to be the second-highest ranking official at the treasury department, the agency now on some of these default student loans. So let's start with basics. How many federal student loan borrowers are currently in default under the trump administration?
▶ 1:39:12Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator. Treasury acts as a fiscal agent in a lot of these areas. As you know, the bureau of fiscal service --
▶ 1:39:22Sen. Warren: I ask a very easy question. I'm not asking for a long oration here. Gerald me on my time. How many people are you dealing with, people who are in default on their student loans? >> on their student loans? > you're going to be in charge.
▶ 1:39:38Mr. Brooke: I don't know the specific number but it's more than it should be.
▶ 1:39:43Sen. Warren: You don't have a specific number, how about a ballpark number?
▶ 1:39:47Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator. I'd be happy for you to tell me the number.
▶ 1:39:52Sen. Warren: You don't have a ballpark. Do you have a general region of the country number? What planet it is on? That is how important this is to you, you don't even know generally? Let me tell you. It's 9 million people who are in default right now and whose financial lives will be in your hands and you don't even know who they are or where they are.
▶ 1:40:19Sen. Warren: Going into default is devastating for people. One potential consequence under federal law, treasury can take away hundreds of dollars per month from social security benefits that seniors worked for decades to learn.
▶ 1:40:36Sen. Warren: Over the years the government has used this power to cut over $1 billion from american social security benefits and according to the latest data, seniors and student loans are about twice as likely to be default then younger borrowers. Since this is all in treasuries of jurisdiction and all part of what you want to go hit up, let me ask you.
▶ 1:41:04Sen. Warren: If the treasury department were to use this power, do you know how many seniors with student loans could face cuts to their social security benefits?
▶ 1:41:14Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator, I do not.
▶ 1:41:17Sen. Warren: 450,000. You are going to have the power in your hands just to slice that offer them in order to pay on their defaulted student loan debts. So these cuts to social security benefits would be devastating for seniors.
▶ 1:41:48Sen. Warren: They are already squeezed by rising cost under the trump administration. On average, borrowers who are subjected to social security offsets see their benefits cut by over $2000 a year. And for many, that is the difference between living in poverty or not. Fortunately, we've had some bipartisan agreement on this issue.
▶ 1:42:12Sen. Warren: Last year, secretary mcmahon told me she would not restart social security offsets for student one borrowers. But since treasury took over defaulted student loans from the department of education, I've asking the administration about whether or not that pause will continue. Can you commit to me this morning in this hearing that the treasury department will not take away social security benefits from seniors with defaulted loans?
▶ 1:42:41Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator. Treasury is playing a fiscal agent role with respect to this --
▶ 1:42:48Sen. Warren: Yeah, so you are going to take this money away from seniors, is that what you're telling me?
▶ 1:42:53Mr. Brooke: That's not what I said. If confirmed by be happy to continue to work with your office on this issue.
▶ 1:42:59Sen. Warren: Are you taking the money away from the seniors or not? Department of education had said they would not do this. All I need you to do is say we are going to follow the same policy that the republican department of education was following and I can't get an answer.
▶ 1:43:14Mr. Brooke: Thank you for the question, senator. I'd be happy to continue to work with that. Secretary mcmahon has been very clear on the issue.
▶ 1:43:25Sen. Warren: I'm asking for the minimum here. Not the 9 million people whose lives have been turned upside down. I'm just looking for the half a million people who are seniors. Just a commitment that they can count on getting that social security payment month after month after month without donald trump taking a big bite out of it and I can't even get that out of this nominee. I will be a no on you. >> senator cortez masto.
▶ 1:43:58Sen. Warren: >> thank you to the chair and ranking member. Let me just say to all of you congratulations on your nominations and thank you for your willingness to serve. I want to welcome all of your family here as well. Let me start with you. Obviously the positions you are taking, we are going to ask questions that we have concerns about.
▶ 1:44:29Sen. Warren: My question is about chinese investment. The administration recently announced that we would be setting up a board of investment with china. For discussing investment-related issues between the two countries. My question to you is do you think the U.S. should be inviting more investment from china? And if so, what do you think about that, what type of investment?
▶ 1:44:51Mrs. Browne: Thank you, I enjoyed meeting with your staff as well as week. I think this is a really important issue. The purpose of the investment is to set up an avenue for dialogue , which the secretary as well as with china, and to really hold them accountable to the commitment that they are making as well as the articles of the trade negotiation with china.
▶ 1:45:19Mrs. Browne: There are certain issues that we are going to take a very critical look at, but let me make it clear that our trade with china, we are looking for a fair and balanced trade with china which we have not yet seen. They have subsidized their industries, they've inflicted unfair trade practices upon american businesses.
▶ 1:45:43Mrs. Browne: They continued to subsidize and that has enabled something on the shores of american shores, which has directly hurt american manufacturers, american businesses and american farmers.
▶ 1:45:54Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me ask you. My concern here is that for fear looking at the type of investments in the administration, presently -- president trump recently stated the U.S. should let china come into due to the auto industry and invest in factories. Is that something you are the board would be amenable to?
▶ 1:46:14Mrs. Browne: I think that we are looking for fairness.
▶ 1:46:18Sen. Cortez Masto: Let me know what that means. I can tell you right now the auto industry and the people I'm hearing from are concerned about that statement from president trump.
▶ 1:46:26Mrs. Browne: Absolutely and president trump is doing everything within his power to create an environment that is preferable for american businesses and american workers.
▶ 1:46:35Sen. Cortez Masto: Would you support something like that? The auto industry, china coming in and investing in factories?
▶ 1:46:42Mrs. Browne: I will look at any matter that is before me if confirmed. I've not yet been involved in those discussions but my focus is confirmed as undersecretary for international affairs would be to protect american workers and protect american businesses.
▶ 1:46:58Sen. Cortez Masto: And what role do you think they should play at the board makes this determination?
▶ 1:47:03Mrs. Browne: I think sify is an incredible important legislation that the treasury is obviously part of. It will look at any matters considering -- concerning critical supply chain technology, critical areas of american security and anything that touches the national security issues. In conjunction with the board of investment and all of the different --
▶ 1:47:28Sen. Cortez Masto: So they should still have a bolder matter what the board decides.
▶ 1:47:32Mrs. Browne: I believe they should have enrolled in any type of negotiation in which it touches, which is national security issues.
▶ 1:47:39Sen. Cortez Masto: I'm concerned that secretary bessent has made some statements that if the board approves some investments that it may not necessarily have to go through. So I just want to verify the reason why we've worked in a bipartisan way to pass this law and still monitor how it is being executed is for this very reason, for national security purposes. So I hope it is not disregarded. I see you shaking your head.
▶ 1:48:10Sen. Cortez Masto: We support this being a part of any type of investment, whether the board decided approves or not?
▶ 1:48:16Mr. Brooke: Yes, ma'am. It obviously is the law of the land and will follow the law of the land. I know the secretary has talked about the board of investment.
▶ 1:48:29Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. Mr. kothari, welcome. If confirmed, when you work for the annual preparation of the administration's budget?
▶ 1:48:41Mr. Kothari: Thank you for the question. I enjoyed meeting your staff. Yes, we already work on preparations of the budget.
▶ 1:48:57Sen. Cortez Masto: So for that reason, despite being required by law, this year's budget proposal did not include any projected deficit numbers. And that has been a concerted effort by this administration for some reason not to provide those deficit numbers. How do you feel about that? Do you think that the president's budget should be including those projections?
▶ 1:49:25Mr. Kothari: Thank you for the question. The budget is, all the revenue and all the expenses are there. Provided or not, that can be easily calculated. It is already there. I'm sorry, I do not fully understand the question.
▶ 1:49:53Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you, I know my time is up.
▶ 1:50:00Senator Grassley: I just came across the hall from the last judiciary hearing and I thought it was done an hour ago and people kept coming in and coming in. If you're irritated when I show up, it's ok.
▶ 1:50:16Mr. Brooke: I b irritated when you show up to one of my hearings. >> I'm going to start with Mr. brow -- Mrs. browne. China agreed to purchase 25 million metric tons of U.S. soybean annually. As china lived up to this thus far, and how will the treasury department insured china continues to the about to its commitment going forward?
▶ 1:50:43Mrs. Browne: Thank you for the question and for raising a very important issue. What the secretary is looking to seek as well as the president is a fair and reciprocal trade agreement and trade relationship with china going forward according to this, we haven't yet seen china really live up to the commitment that they've made under the trump 1.0 administration.
▶ 1:51:08Mrs. Browne: Unfortunately under the last administration we didn't see those commitments really be upheld, and they fell by the wayside. So I committed confirmed that we will ensure that china will be held accountable for the commitment they are making.
▶ 1:51:26Sen. Grassley: You made very clear something that is a fact, of the biden administration didn't pursue it, they should have an farmers have been heard as a result of that. Mr. mcmaster. As assistant secretary, one of your roles will be to advise a secondary and federal debt management. The debt exceeds $39 trillion. American taxpayers are paying $1 trillion in interest.
▶ 1:51:53Sen. Grassley: Given the size of the debt, the average weight of interest paid on outstanding U.S. treasuries matters more than ever. For instance, just a few tenths of 1% up or down can mean hundreds of billions of dollars, and I suppose over the long haul, of a decade, trillions of dollars. In your view, as the treasury department historically managed debt issuance with adequate focus minimizing interest costs?
▶ 1:52:27Sen. Grassley: And then I suppose part of that thought to be what are you going to do about it? >> [static] [inaudible]
▶ 1:52:52Sen. Grassley: Now I think I might be able to hear you, go ahead.
▶ 1:53:02Mr. Mcmaster: We do that in a number of ways. The profile as it relates to the market, I commit to you that I will continue that practice.
▶ 1:53:37Sen. Grassley: Mr. brooke, I wanted to hear your view on how important the tax cut of last year, the working families tax cut act as we call it has been in terms of promoting economic world job creation, wage growth. Are we seeing all the benefit of it yet? Mr. brooke: thank you so much for the question. We've seen a lot of benefits.
▶ 1:54:08Sen. Grassley: We've seen over 63 million americans take advantage of the president's no tax on tips, new tax on overtime, and no tax on social security. Let you know, we have seen a lot of benefits on the economic front. We've seen expenditures of over 15% year to date. We expect these to pay dividends going forward.
▶ 1:54:38Sen. Grassley: We are working to get this moving as quickly as possible and thank you for your leadership on all those issues.
▶ 1:54:42Sen. Grassley: Congratulations on your appointment. That's the end of my questioning. >> thank you, and we are glad we got senator grassley's questions you before we wrap up. That does wrap up the questions. Before we close, I just want to say to each of you again, thank you for your willingness to step up and serve. As this hearing showed, there is a lot of conflict in our government today.
▶ 1:55:12Sen. Grassley: And a lot of disagreement about what policies we should be pursuing. But you are all agreeing to step up and be a part of working to make our department of treasury the most effective and strongest department that we can have it be, and strengthen america in our economics across this globe. And I appreciate your willingness to step into the political fray and to engage in the management that you are willing to do.
▶ 1:55:41Sen. Grassley: You are all highly qualified and I am going to vote for your nominations and encourage all of my colleagues to support your nominations as well. Before we close, I want to remind my colleagues that the deadline for submitting any questions for the record is 5:00 , friday, july 17 and I encourage you to respond to any written questions for the record as quickly as you can. With that, this committee stands adjourned.
▶ 1:56:09Sen. Grassley: [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]