▶ 0:26:28Chair Scott: Good morning, I call this executive session to order. We will consider the nominations of Dr. christopher phelan and Mr. john crews. I want to thank each for appearing before this committee. We heard about their experience, judgment, commitment to the american people.
▶ 0:26:53Chair Scott: President trump was elected to bring down costs, restore accountability, and put common sense back in the center of government. To do that he needs all five leaders in place. He understands economic policy is not an academic exercise. It affects jobs, investment, and with their families in south carolina and around the country will have a fair shot at opportunity. Mr.
▶ 0:27:17Chair Scott: Crews understands the credit union system. Credit unions help families, workers, small businesses save, borrow, grow, and handle unexpected costs life throws their way. They should be judged on their qualifications, commitment to serving the american people. I urge my colleagues to support these qualified nominees and I look forward to moving them forward. Senator warren.
▶ 0:27:46Sen. Warren: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Before I get into my opening I want to raise a concern that you and I had a chance to discuss last night. We have been briefed on the fbi background investigations for the nominees that we are scheduled to vote on this morning and I appreciate you always talking these issues through, sometimes even late at night. I won't get into details.
▶ 0:28:17Sen. Warren: Given the limitations and rules of what you discussed in public session, but the briefing left me with significant questions that have not yet been answered. We should put off this mark up until we have confidence that the fbi has run down all the answers. All of our
▶ 0:46:13Chair Scott: The clerk will call the roll. [crosstalk]
▶ 0:46:36Chair Scott: Just for clarity's sake -- we are now back in open session. We will now have a vote to go back into closed session to discuss the underlying issue. Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:47:00Chair Scott: >> [clerk calling the roll] >>
▶ 0:49:08Chair Scott: Clarification before you call the vote. My understanding is to have a prevailing vote you must be present, the majority has to be present. >> that holds for matters voted out of committee. >> not internally? Thank you. >> can I ask you, this was a decision that was made five minutes ago. I'm curious how all these proxies came in.
▶ 0:49:38Chair Scott: So they knew there was going to be a vote?
▶ 0:49:41Sen. Warren: My members have given me their proxy. >> I'm just asking a point of order.
▶ 0:49:48Sen. Warren: I have specific proxies. Thank you.
▶ 0:49:52Chair Scott: Have they been shared with the clerk?
▶ 0:49:56Sen. Warren: I can share them with the clerk.
▶ 0:49:59Chair Scott: They have been shared with the clerk? The proxies? >> the vote is 12 ayes and 10 nays.
▶ 0:50:11Chair Scott: We will go back into an executive session, closed session. Unfortunately I will see you in a few minutes.
▶ 1:25:01Chair Scott: I call this executive session back to order and we will first vote on the nomination of Dr. christopher phelan. I moved to a roll call vote for christopher phelan to be the chairman of the council of economic advisors. The clerk will call the roll. Yes.
▶ 1:25:43Chair Scott: Let's call the roll. Aye. >> Mr. crapo. Mr. rounds. Mr. tillis. Mr. kennedy. Mr. hagerty. Miss loomis. Ms. britt. Mr. ricketts. Mr. banks.
▶ 1:26:15Chair Scott: Mr. cramer. Mr. marino. Mr. mccormick. Ms. warren. Mr. reed. Mr. warner. Mr. van hollen. Ms. cortez masto. Ms. smith. Mr. warnock. Mr. kim. Mr. gallego.
▶ 1:26:48Chair Scott: Ms. blunt rochester. Ms. alsobrooks. I have 13 ayes, 11 nays.
▶ 1:27:03Chair Scott: Next we will consider Dr. Mr. john cruz, and I moved to a roll call the road for Mr. cruz to be a member of the national credit union administration board. The clerk will call the roll. >> the chairman. Mr. crapo. Mr. rounds. Mr. tillis. Mr. kennedy. Mr. hagerty.
▶ 1:27:33Chair Scott: Miss loomis -- Ms. lummis. Mr. ricketts. Mr. banks. Mr. cramer. Mr. marino. Mr. mccormick. Ms. warren.
▶ 1:28:03Sen. Warren: No. >> Mr. reed. Mr. warner.
▶ 1:28:09Sen. Warren: No by proxy. >> Mr. van hollen.
▶ 1:28:13Sen. Warren: No by proxy. >> Ms. cortez masto. Ms. smith. Mr. warnock.
▶ 1:28:21Sen. Warren: No by proxy. >> Mr. kim. Mr. gallego.
▶ 1:28:25Sen. Warren: No by proxy. >> Ms. blunt rochester. Ms. alsobrooks.
▶ 1:28:31Sen. Warren: No by proxy.
▶ 1:28:33Chair Scott: The ayes have it. Are there any members that would like to make any statements? Without further statements, the executive session is now adjourned. He will now turn to the hearing of the nominations of Ms. abby warren for assistant secretary of export administration at the bureau of industry and security at the department of commerce. Mr.
▶ 1:28:59Chair Scott: Irving dennis, for chief financial officer of the department of housing and urban development. And Mr. brian johnson, for the rector of the consumer financial protection bureau. We will wait for the nominees to come in.
▶ 1:29:40Chair Scott: All right. We were also going to have a few senators actually introduce our witnesses come but obviously with this delay they will not be here. Thank you for standing. I will now swear in the nominees. Will you please stand and raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm the testimony you are about to give is the truth and nothing but the truth, so help you god?
▶ 1:30:07Chair Scott: Do you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the senate? You may sit down. Your written statement will be made part of the record in its entirety. Please keep your oral comments to five minutes. Today the committee will welcome these three nominees for important roles they will play. I have already talked about each of the nominees and the roles they will play.
▶ 1:30:36Chair Scott: I want to thank each of you for your willingness to serve our country and I welcome your families as well and I will say, we apologize for the delay. That is unusual and unexpected, but important. The positions before us stan -- spend different agencies, but each carries a significant responsibility. Making government work for the american people. In south carolina and across the country families want to government that respects their hard earned tax dollars, protects our national security, and expands opportunity.
▶ 1:31:08Chair Scott: They deserve experienced leaders who will follow the law, remain accountable to congress, and remember whom they work for. Each of the nominees before us today brings a strong record of leadership and deep experience in the agency or policy area have been nominated to serve. That experience matters. They have demonstrated that they are dedicated to the missions of their agencies. The limits of government power, and the duty that comes with public service.
▶ 1:31:43Chair Scott: Mr. dennis, you will be responsible for safeguarding billions of taxpayer dollars and strengthening the programs families rely on. Every dollar misused is a dollar that cannot help a family access safe and affordable housing. Ms.
▶ 1:32:00Chair Scott: Warren, export controls are among our most important tools for keeping sensitive technology out of the hands of our adversaries and how we ensure the global ai race is one here at home in the united states and not by china. If confirmed as assistant secretary for export administration your decisions will impact our national security, but also affect small business. The health of our technology sector. And american competitiveness.
▶ 1:32:32Chair Scott: We must keep sensitive technology away from our enemies while making sure america continues to lead, innovate, and compete. Mr. johnson, you have been nominated to lead the cfpb and an important moment for the agency. If confirmed you would be responsible for protecting consumers while keeping the bureau focused on its mission and within the law.
▶ 1:32:57Chair Scott: Families and businesses deserve clear rules, or treatment, and access to affordable financial products. The standard for all three nominees is simple. Commitment to the mission. Serve the american people. And make government work better for families. At the heart of this committee's work is a belief that every american deserves a fair shot at building a better life.
▶ 1:33:27Chair Scott: That requires leaders understand that government decisions affect paychex, homes, small businesses, communities, and the country. I look forward to hearing from each of you today, and working with my colleagues to move these qualified nominees forward. Senator, do you want to introduce one of our nominees?
▶ 1:33:58Chair Scott: >> I would love to. Chairman scott and ranking member wine, and members of this committee, I'm pleased to be here this morning. Thank you offer what you do to promote a common sense regulatory strategy and a resilient financial sector in our country. As you may know, I once served as a member of the house, where I chaired the financial institutions and consumer credit subcommittee of the financial services committee. This is how I first came to know and work with our nominee, brian johnson.
▶ 1:34:27Chair Scott: Brian is a native of columbus, but we will not hold that against him. He is close to west virginia. As we know, a neighbor of our stay. He graduated with an undergraduate degree from the university of jenna and a law degree from that fine institution. The university of virginia school of law. He began his implant with the financial services committee in 2012.
▶ 1:34:48Chair Scott: We work closely with me and my team to advance commonsense legislation that addressed the regulatory burdens facing our community and our community financial institution and ensure greater accountability within our financial regulatory agencies. I knew brian then, as a diligent and thoughtful staff member, as someone who was devoted to serving the public with integrity, and I saw firsthand his thoughtful approach to complex -- and they are complex -- consumer finance policy issues.
▶ 1:35:17Chair Scott: Brian has since moved on to other roles, including as deputy director of the cfpb. He brings strong technical expertise, as well as practical understanding of how financial policy decisions affect our families, our consumers, and small businesses around our country. I do not doubt he has the experience and judgment to serve as the cfpb a place best director and president trump has made an excellent choice.
▶ 1:35:42Chair Scott: Will ensure the agency sticks to its original charter, not go beyond that, as we have stated recently and reaffirmed the working families tax can act passed last year. If the senate confirms him -- and I hope we will. I am confident brian will faithfully discharge his responsibilities for the benefit of the american consumer and our financial markets. Congratulations on your nomination and thank you both very much.
▶ 1:36:05Chair Scott: Thank you, senator. We will hear from our ranking member, senator warren.
▶ 1:36:10Sen. Warren: Think you, Mr. chairman. President trump's second term has been a failure by pretty much every count. First, the president has failed to meet his number one promised to lower costs on day one. That was his promise. Second, donald trump is the most corrupt president in history. He is making billions of dollars on his own shady crypto deals, decision after decision seems to -- designed to enrich the president, his family, or his wall street buddies.
▶ 1:36:41Sen. Warren: Sometimes all three. And third, president trump seems to be selling pardons for white-collar criminals who make the right donations. Now, trump's government is running up costs for middle-class families and refusing to help those families when they get cheated. And today the committee has a full panel of nominees who will be expected to lament and defend president donald trump's willingness to turn his back on americans' financial troubles.
▶ 1:37:11Sen. Warren: We have abby warren, who has already been at the commerce department for over a year as the trump administration has rolled back export controls on advanced ai chips and undermined our national security. And irving dennis, who has been acting cfo and apparently thinks he deserves the role permanently while the agency continues to illegally freeze federal housing funds. I want to focus in particular on brian johnson.
▶ 1:37:41Sen. Warren: President trump's nominee to be the director of the cfpb. This is the only government agency that exists to look out for hard-working families who get cheated on financial products. It is -- it's only mission is to help out families that are getting ripped off by the credit card company or unfairly charged by their banks or scammed by payday lenders.
▶ 1:38:05Sen. Warren: Last week we had the acting cfpb head, russ vought, testifying right here before our committee and Mr. vote, backed up by president trump, spent 18 months trying to kill the consumer financial protection bureau. He failed. Even so, he has done plenty of damage, taking the cop off the beat and costing american families over $26 billion.
▶ 1:38:34Sen. Warren: That is money directly out of the pockets of hard-working americans. And when he could not kill the agency director vote decided to turn it upside down. To make it work for the scammers and tricksters and anyone else willing to pay trump and his buddies.
▶ 1:38:54Sen. Warren: The financial industry, big banks, tech firms, and wealthy ceos have lined up, making millions of dollars in campaign contributions and sucking up to trump personally with shady donations to his ballroom and library and other projects. The payoff? The fines are withdrawn, the investigations are closed, and settlements are reduced to the lightest pop -- possible slap on the wrist.
▶ 1:39:24Sen. Warren: It is corruption, plain and simple. And it is costing the american people billions of dollars. That brings us to Mr. johnson. This too johnson brings his own unique baggage to this job. He has made a career out of spinning through the revolving door. Shifting in and out of government jobs with stops as a well-paid hired gun for the big banks and financial firms in between. Mr.
▶ 1:39:52Sen. Warren: Johnson has been at capital one since 2024, and wouldn't you know it, in 2025 the cfpb dropped a $2 billion enforcement action against capital one. How convenient. And how profitable for capital one. At a minimum Mr. johnson owes us answers on what role he played in getting that case dropped. But, more importantly, Mr.
▶ 1:40:21Sen. Warren: Johnson has to explain to the american people, how is it that they are supposed to believe that after collecting big paychecks from giant credit card and other financial companies he will suddenly be sticking up for middle-class families? But for everyone who already had doubts about Mr. johnson, acting director vought testified last week and told us exactly why he should not be confirmed. The most damming thing about Mr.
▶ 1:40:52Sen. Warren: Johnson's nomination is that he has gotten a rousing stamp of approval from the outgoing director, russ vought, who spent a year and a half trying to kill the agency and who now says Mr. johnson will "do a great job running it. Running it into the ground. Easter chairman, the american people need watchdogs, not lapdogs at the cfpb. If Mr.
▶ 1:41:19Sen. Warren: Johnson is confirmed I'm concerned he will continue this cycle of corruption that is costing the american people billions of dollars. And that is why I believe it would be a mistake to move forward with his nomination. Thank you.
▶ 1:41:32Chair Scott: Yes ma'am. We have senator ted cruz here to introduce miss abby warren.
▶ 1:41:40Sen. Cruz: Thank you, Mr. chairman. It is a privilege to be with members of the committee this money. I'm honored to have the opportunity to introduce abby warren, president trump's nominee to serve as assistant secretary for the department of commerce. Abby previously served as my chief counsel for oversight and instigation's on the senate commerce committee. Where she led our investigations and oversight efforts with professionalism, integrity, and dedication.
▶ 1:42:08Sen. Cruz: During her time on the committee she helped draft critical legislation, such as the terms act, which would require online service providers to admit their political biases, allowing consumers to make more informed decisions about where they choose to do business. She also spearheaded our efforts to promote good and honest governance at the department of commerce, on behalf of the american taxpayer.
▶ 1:42:34Sen. Cruz: Simply put, abby helped advance conservative solutions on some of the nation's most pressing technology and communications issues. President trump and the american people would be fortunate to have someone of abby's caliber serving in this administration. As an assistant secretary for the commerce department abby will play an integral role in developing U.S. export control policy to ensure that america can compete with china.
▶ 1:43:04Sen. Cruz: She will work closely with federal agencies, our allies, and administration leaders to strengthen our national security while enhancing america's technological and economic competitiveness. America is in a race with china on who will lead in artificial intelligence. Having the right people in positions of leadership gives our country an advantage.
▶ 1:43:28Sen. Cruz: I have consistently said that our technology and software should reflect the american values of free speech, individual liberty, and free enterprise. Abby is the right person to fight for these values. Abby's other qualifications show she is exceptionally well suited for this role. In addition to her work on the committee she currently serves as the commerce department's deputy general counsel for artificial intelligence and technology.
▶ 1:43:55Sen. Cruz: She also works on special counsel teams at the senate judiciary committee for the confirmations of brett kavanaugh and amy coney barrett to the supreme court. Before coming to the hill abby worked as an associate at kirkland and ellis, where she focused on complex commercial litigation and clerked for judge elizabeth branch on the U.S. court of appeals for the 11th circuit.
▶ 1:44:20Sen. Cruz: I'm confident that abby will serve president trump, secretary lutnick, and the american people well as she works to strengthen american innovation, go our economy, and drive our technological advancements. Our nation will be better for it and I would encourage the members of this committee to confirm her swiftly. Thank you.
▶ 1:44:42Chair Scott: Senator cruz, it sounds like I should have hired abby first.
▶ 1:44:47Sen. Cruz: Well, you are now.
▶ 1:44:50Chair Scott: Thank you for taking the time to come over and introduce one of your -- at this point I will start our five minutes, with Mr. dennis.
▶ 1:45:04Mr. Dennis: Thank you, chairman scott, ranking member warren, and distinguished members of the committee, for the opportunity to appear before you today, as president trump's nominee to serve as his chief financial officer of the department of housing and urban development. I am deeply honored to have been nominated by president trump to serve as the chief financial officer of bud and grateful for the confidence that both the president and secretary scott have placed on me.
▶ 1:45:33Mr. Dennis: Having previously served as chief financial officer during the first trump administration I am honored the opportunity to return and continue serving the american people. I would also like to thank my family for their unwavering support route the nomination process and throughout my career. As a certified public accountant I have dedicated my professional life to financial stewardship, accountability, and protecting stakeholder dollars from fraud, waste, and abuse.
▶ 1:45:59Mr. Dennis: As someone who grew up with very humble beginnings in new jersey I do not take this opportunity for granted. My hometown is a blue-collar farming community that instilled in me strong work ethic and an appreciation for public service. My father emphasize the importance of hard work from an early age. When I was 12 years old my brother and I worked on a local produce farm, waking before sunrise to harvest crops. I also worked at a local hotdog stand and a local factory to pay for my college education.
▶ 1:46:30Mr. Dennis: Those experiences taught me discipline, responsibility, and the value of earning and savings for the future. I attended montclair diversity as a first-generation college graduate and earned a degree in accounting. I remain actively involved in the university through guest lecturing and service on the advisory board of its business school. Following graduation I joined ernst & young, one of the big four auditing firms, where I became a cpa and spent nearly 40 years building a career in public accounting.
▶ 1:46:59Mr. Dennis: I ultimately retired as a global service partner. During that time I served as a coordinating audit partner for several fortune five hundred companies and advised board of directors audit committees and senior executives on corporate governance, financial reporting internal controls, business transformation initiatives, and mergers and acquisitions. After retiring from ernst & young I saw an opportunity to apply my professional experience public service.
▶ 1:47:24Mr. Dennis: I was honored to be nominated and confirmed as chief financial officer during trump's first administration undersecretary ben carson. And I arrived at hud in 2018 the department faced significant financial management challenges. Art's financial infrastructure included old people material weaknesses, multiple deficiencies, and adverse audit results. Meaningful improvements were needed across governance, people, process, internal controls and information technology systems.
▶ 1:47:54Mr. Dennis: Working alongside secretary ben carson and a dedicated team of public service, we focused on transforming hud's financial management and technology operations. Through those efforts hud illuminated most of its material weaknesses. Strengthened internal controls and in 2020 we achieved the first clean audit opinion in 18 years. Billing on the progress hud is continuing to modernize its financial operations.
▶ 1:48:19Mr. Dennis: One of my key priorities include consolidating and modernizing the department's financial and grants management systems, improving efficiency, enhancing customer service and strengthening financial oversight and accountability. We refer to this initiative as hot's unified grant system.
▶ 1:48:40Mr. Dennis: Hugs includes implementing stronger processes to improve transparency and accountability among grantees and sub-grantees to track how taxpayer dollars are being spent at the recipient level. We are working closely with hud programs to address long-standing improper payment challenges through comprehensive business process improvements. If confirmed, I will work diligently to make sure hud remains a responsible steward of taxpayer resources and continue to strengthen its financial management practices.
▶ 1:49:10Mr. Dennis: I'm committed to promoting accountability, operational excellence, and effective support of hud's missions on behalf of the american people. Thank you, chairman. For your consideration of my nomination.
▶ 1:49:25Chair Scott: Thank you. I now recognize the senator from about -- from about of her questions. I thought we went this way. We go that way? We are in the southern hemisphere. I recognize miss warren, for your comments.
▶ 1:49:42Ms. Warren: Thank you, chairman scott, ranking number worn, and the members of this committee. For the opportunity to appear before you today as president trump's nominee to serve as the assistant secretary for export administration at the bureau of industry and security. I would like to begin by thanking president trump for nominating me, and secretary lutnick and undersecretary kessler for their support and confidence.
▶ 1:50:09Ms. Warren: I'm extreme grateful to my former boss, senator cruz, for his introduction and kind words. I would like to thank my family, friends, and colleagues who are here today, including my parents, paul and donna, who drove up from marietta, georgia, my hometown, and my husband, patrick. His encouragement and support have made my public service possible. Throughout my career I have had the privilege of serving in all three branches of federal government.
▶ 1:50:37Ms. Warren: I have worked in the united states senate, the federal judiciary, and the executive branch, where I currently serve as the deputy general counsel for ai and take elegy at the department of commerce. Those experience has have provided me with a deep appreciation for our constitutional system, the importance of the rule of law, and the responsibility entrusted to public servants.
▶ 1:50:58Ms. Warren: Over the past two years I have worked across the commerce department and with interagency partners without cash throughout the federal government to address complex legal questions and address the department's priorities. Those experiences have prepared me to lead a large organization, manage complex processes, and deliver resorts -- results in support of the departments national security and economic missions.
▶ 1:51:26Ms. Warren: The bureau of industry and security plays a vital role in protecting the national security , economic security, and unmatched technological achievement in scientific innovation of the united states. Export controls are among the most important tools available to ensure that america's most sensitive technologies, products, and expertise do not contribute to the military modernization or strategic ambitions of our adversaries.
▶ 1:51:52Ms. Warren: At the same time, the site s helps preserve the conditions that prevent the theft of intellectual property and allow american companies, researchers, and innovators to remain the global leaders in developing technologies that will shape the future. The evolving landscape since significant opportunities for bias to demonstrate its leadership and expand its vital impact. Emerging technologies are developing at an unprecedented speed.
▶ 1:52:22Ms. Warren: Supply chains are increasingly global and strategic editors are devoting substantial resources to acquiring advanced technologies with military and intelligence applications. Meeting these challenges requires a regulatory system that is affect of, adaptable, in" a nation with our allies and partners.
▶ 1:52:41Ms. Warren: If confirmed, I will faithfully execute the laws enacted by congress, worked to ensure pis' export controls are effective and enforceable, and collaborate closely with congress, or international partners, and stakeholders across the government in industry to advance U.S. national security interest. I'm proud of my service at the department of commerce and would be honored to continue serving at the american people in this new capacity find confirmed.
▶ 1:53:08Ms. Warren: Thank you for your consideration of my nomination and other forge your questions. >> thank you. Mr. johnson, your recognize. >> chairman scott, ranking number worn, and members of the committee, give her the opportunity to appear before you today. I'm also grateful to senator capito for her kind introduction of me this morning. I'm very grateful to president trump for nominating me for the position of director of the cfpb.
▶ 1:53:36Ms. Warren: I'm eager to help him advance his pro-growth agenda, achieve accountability in government, and promote access, innovation, and competition in the financial marketplace. The wife, kate, is he with me. This morning I am forever grateful to her for her steadfast support and partnership, and for her devotion to our two young children. Also join here today by my father, can. And my stepmother, nancy.
▶ 1:54:07Ms. Warren: I'm deeply thankful to them and my sister, allison, for their love and support. I also know that my late mother watches over me. The great majority of my professional career has been devoted to public service. I've spent the last 14 years substantially focused on the intersection of consumer finance and federal law. I began my career as a junior senate staffer for senator jon kyl. I later spent over five years working for the house financial services committee.
▶ 1:54:37Ms. Warren: Where focused on consumer credit and financial institutions issues under the leadership of chairman insulin. I continue my public service at the cfpb, including as its deputy director, where I helped shape the agency's strategy and rulemaking enforcement and supervisory activities. I also have experience in the private sector, whereafter helped institutions enhance their compliance with consumer financial law.
▶ 1:55:06Ms. Warren: My experiences in these various roles have deepened my conviction that consumer protection is not a zero-sum game. Where the cfpb writes clear and durable rules of the road, obeys its own statutory bounds, justly enforces the law, and enables consumers to make their own financial decisions, with consumers and market participants win.
▶ 1:55:29Ms. Warren: To the contrary, where the cfpb tries to remake markets according to an ideological agenda, it deprives consumers of choice, restricts their access to financial products and services, and drive some cost for providers. Which are ultimately borne by customers and investors. If confirmed I will have three priorities.
▶ 1:55:52Ms. Warren: Protecting consumers, especially those who are vulnerable to fraud and scams, promoting accountability by ensuring cfpb acts prudently and within its statutory limits, and modernizing cfpb operations. If confirmed, I pledge to you that I will faithfully execute the law as written. Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 1:56:16Ms. Warren: And the opportunity to work with each of you and your staff to achieve our shared goal of improving the financial lives of americans across this great nation. Thank you.
▶ 1:56:28Sen. Moreno: I now recognize senator cortez masto for her questions. Congratulations on your nominations. Look into your family members. I appreciate you being here. Mr. dennis, let me start with you. I have heard from numerous nevadans about root -- delays in the receipt of hud funds. I may talk about that. The nevada homeless alliance in nevada has yet to receive its fiscal year 2025 hud continuum of care grant agreement.
▶ 1:57:02Sen. Moreno: They need nearly $1 million in funding to help people at risk of experiencing homelessness. The grant period, this new period against on august 1, 20 26 and they still lack an executed grant agreement. If you are appropriated will you do all you can to get hud to execute on these grant agreements?
▶ 1:57:26Mr. Dennis: Yes, thank you. The execution is a program decision and a program oversight. The office of the chief financial officer is responsible for making sure the funds are available and when appropriated, and also make sure they are accountable properly once they are dispersed, which is our primary application. You do not control the timing of the notice of financial availability. We do not control the timing of the grant agreements. That is a program decision.
▶ 1:57:57Mr. Dennis: So, those decisions are made at the program level. Our responsibilities to make sure they are properly accounted for and available.
▶ 1:58:02Sen. Cortez Masto: When you say the program level who is making that decision? >> the assistant secretaries of the individual programs.
▶ 1:58:13Sen. Cortez Masto: Is a part of your job to ensure that the program, the assistant secretary follows the law?
▶ 1:58:16Mr. Dennis: Yeah, the programs,
▶ 1:58:20That Is Sen. Cortez Masto: Sen.
▶ 1:58:21Cortez Masto: The program's responsibility. Cracked, but you ensure that they follow the law? If the money has been appropriated it has already been agreed to and it is supposed to go out? You don't have any obligation to ensure it is followed?
▶ 1:58:32Mr. Dennis: Our responsibility and the chief financial officers office is to make sure the funds are available in appropriated unaccountable for once they are dispersed.
▶ 1:58:41Sen. Cortez Masto: You have no obligation in the disbursement? For instance, the housing trust funds that are awarded to states? This month? You have no obligation to ensure they are dispersed?
▶ 1:58:52Mr. Dennis: I responsibility is to make sure they are properly accounted for once they are dispersed.
▶ 1:58:58Sen. Cortez Masto: Explained that to me. They are properly accounted for? That states properly account for them?
▶ 1:59:04Mr. Dennis: Not the state, hud, the federal government.
▶ 1:59:08Sen. Cortez Masto: Your job is to make sure the money is in the account? You don't have any obligation to ensure that money in the account that has been earmarked for certain specific programs gets out?
▶ 1:59:18Mr. Dennis: Yeah, the programs are responsible for issuing and executing the grant agreement, and then the disbursement of funds. We are responsible to make sure once the funds are appropriated they are properly allocated in the accounts and once they are dispersed we are to make sure they are properly accounted for and reported. Everything you are referring to is a program response ability.
▶ 1:59:39Sen. Cortez Masto: And that is the deputy secretary making that decision?
▶ 1:59:42Mr. Dennis: Assistant secretary.
▶ 1:59:44Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. Miss moran, many of my colleagues and I have been concerned that loosening export controls on our nation's most advanced semiconductors will be a major contributor to china's ai progress and reduce america's advantages in this space. That is why I have worked with my colleagues in a bipartisan way to advance legislation like the ai overwatch act and chips security act. I'm curious.
▶ 2:00:11Sen. Cortez Masto: We talked a little bit about this, but will you share more on your views about the export controls to prevent our most advanced semiconductor technology from flowing to china?
▶ 2:00:21Ms. Warren: Thank you, senator, for the question. When I think about my philosophy here, as an attorney I go back to the statute. It outlines how we should be approaching these issues. It says we need to put national security controls in place -- excuse me, export controls in place when there are national security concerns, while also recognizing what the economic impact of those controls are.
▶ 2:00:47Ms. Warren: That is something we need to be monitoring carefully and bias has a staff that is monitoring the new technology coming and seeing whether the controls are necessary. I understanding is that there are strong controls in place, but that said, technology is always evolving. We need to keep up-to-date with everything and if I'm confirming something I'm going to make sure the staff is constantly looking at and I am looking at as well.
▶ 2:01:07Sen. Cortez Masto: Thank you. Mr., when you are employed as the deputy director of the consumer bureau I was one of many critical of the decision to halt proactive compliance examination of lenders under the military lending act. I will note that during your tenure there. The cfpb did file nine cases against companies that targeted servicemembers, veterans, and surviving spouses. Let me ask you this.
▶ 2:01:36Sen. Cortez Masto: I'm concerned that now the office of servicemember affairs has been eliminated. Would you commit to restoring it?
▶ 2:01:47Mr. Johnson: Senator, that office is by statute. I will be happy to take a look if I am confirmed and ensure it is fulfilling its duties.
▶ 2:01:53Sen. Cortez Masto: Would you let me know if it is not? Would you let us know if it needs staff or funding to ensure it continues its statutorily-obligated duties?
▶ 2:02:03Mr. Johnson: I will do so senator.
▶ 2:02:05Sen. Cortez Masto: I know my time is up. Thank you.
▶ 2:02:08Sen. Moreno: Thank you. Mr. dennis, I will start with you, since we are going from one side to the other. You have helped lead an effort at hud towards having a clean audit opinion. I was that going? How much more work do you think you need to do there?
▶ 2:02:23Mr. Dennis: We got to a clean audit opinion under the first trump administration. As I mentioned when I arrived, we had a disclaimed audit opinion, which means they could not opine on it and we were able to put strong financial controls in place. And we got our first clean audit opinion in eight years in 2020.
▶ 2:02:43Mr. Dennis: When I came back under 47 we got another disclaimer, primarily because some of the financial controls put in place deteriorated under the prior administration. As an example, we had a controllership function there was very helpful to get a clean audit opinion. Had training, we had internal control, infrastructure testing that went on. Those functions went away, which resulted in an -- a disclaimer in my first year here. We got those controls back in place.
▶ 2:03:10Mr. Dennis: We got those functions filled and we are working closely with the programs where a lot of the deterioration happen. I'm hopeful that we will be right where we need it to be and get a clean audit opinion this year, but the audit process is ongoing. I'm really focused right now on putting in a recipient database. We send out $77 billion a year to our grantees. Don't know how the grantees spend that money.
▶ 2:03:35Mr. Dennis: What I'm putting in is using ai and technology to get information for every check that is cut. I want the invoice or contract that supports that vendor. We will get that and using ai we will convert that information into a lake and we will measure that against structured, unstructured, and open source data to see if there's any conflicts, ensure the dollars are being spent as intended, and also in compliance with the grant agreements. We are really excited about that.
▶ 2:04:05Mr. Dennis: He piloted the program with great success with 10 grantees and we are hopeful he will roll that out this year. It will substantially enhance the control environment, but more importantly how the funds are being spent to make sure they are being spent without fraud, waste, and abuse.
▶ 2:04:20Sen. Moreno: The skill of the problem is pretty enormous. The reports I have seen show almost 26% in proper payment rates. A number have in front of me, $5.8 billion. That is an almost unfathomable number. By $.8 billion in fraud is nuts.
▶ 2:04:40Mr. Dennis: For the first time ever we analyzed all of our voucher payments for fiscal 2024. I come in we did that right away and we found a lot of payments that were questionable. Doesn't mean they were fraud. That means they need to do a little homework. A lot of those payments were a combination of noncompliance, paying deceased people, nonconforming social security numbers, then payments that were outside the norm of market value in individual states and geographic areas.
▶ 2:05:11Mr. Dennis: Have that under control. We are putting processes in place to make sure the payments are to.gov compliance and we will have good reporting and positive reporting on that in our agency financial report the ship. I'm very excited about the progress made in that as well.
▶ 2:05:26Sen. Moreno: A couple of years, you are confirmed on the job, a target of zero make sense? No fraud? Should not send taxpayer money? Would you agree on that? The goal should be zero? I'm going to read for you that the goal is zero. Any other answer will not be processed by membrane.
▶ 2:05:50Sen. Moreno: This morning, sometimes we talk about nvidia and the chips in the most advanced semiconductors, but sometimes tackling old-school technology, like plain old memory chips can become a problem. There is currently a massive memory chip issue. What are your feelings on that? You feel we should be making certain we feel U.S. demand first before we start shipping memory outside the country?
▶ 2:06:21Ms. Warren: I don't know if it is mutually exclusive. I think president trump and since I have been at the department of commerce has been focusing on making sure you're getting more memory chip will not. I have been involved with the chip program's efforts. For example, macron's facility they are building and that has been excellent.
▶ 2:06:32Sen. Moreno: But until that comes online we are going to face this shortage. I just want your commitment, please pay attention to that as well.
▶ 2:06:40Ms. Warren: A.
▶ 2:06:42Sen. Moreno: Mr. johnson, you have been at the cfpb. Something near and dear to my heart is the auto business. There is a company called carbonic. I want your commitment to work with me on that. They have an approval rating of credit for the customers of nearly 100%. Having been in the car business for a long time, that doesn't exist. There is no snow in which you approve one hunter percent of your clients.
▶ 2:07:06Sen. Moreno: I would want you to work with me to see what is going on, what they are doing and I personally believe they need to be investigated and I want your commitment to help you do that.
▶ 2:07:14Mr. Johnson: If confirmed I would be happy to take a look.
▶ 2:07:20Sen. Moreno: Sen. moreno: I now recognize the ranking member.
▶ 2:07:21Sen. Warren: In january 2025 the cfpb sued capital one, which is your current employer, Mr. johnson. It was sued for cheating its customers out of more than $2 billion in interest payments on their savings accounts. But about a month after president trump was sworn in and after cap a one donated a cool $1 million to his inauguration acting director vought drop the case against capital one.
▶ 2:07:51Sen. Warren: This is one of 42 enforcement actions and investigations the cfpb has dropped against the banks and giant corporations since donald trump took office. When he was here last week I asked director vought, how many of those 42 cases against companies that we know donated to president trump? And he said he did not know how many had donated to president trump. I said, we know at least some of them.
▶ 2:08:21Sen. Warren: Cap one, apple, of america, j.p. Morgan, toyota, walmart, meta. They donate and they get actions from the cfpb against them dropped. Who knows if there are more? What I do know is we need to clean this corruption up.
▶ 2:08:40Sen. Warren: Easter johnson, will you commit to notifying congress and the inspector general immediately if the white house contacts you about an enforcement action against a trump family company or a big donor that cheated families?
▶ 2:08:57Mr. Johnson: Senator, when I served that cfpb that never happened to my knowledge and I don't anticipate it would.
▶ 2:09:04Sen. Warren: That is not my question. My question is, if it does will you notify congress and will you notify the inspector general? Look, there is obviously a problem here. I'm looking for a way to clean it up. You're the guy in the seat who can do this. Will you agree to notify us if you get a call about a political donor or member of the trump family who is asking about an ongoing investigation?
▶ 2:09:32Mr. Johnson: Senator, with respect, I dispute the premise of the question.
▶ 2:09:37Sen. Warren: I don't care whether you like the premise. I'm giving you a set of facts that are not made up. It is happening, right now. I want your commitment that if it happens on your watch you will pick up the phone and call us. Our job is oversight. That is not so hard. Are you willing to do that?
▶ 2:09:57Mr. Johnson: Senator, I'm not going to engage --
▶ 2:10:01Sen. Warren: So the answer is no? You will not try to hose out the corruption? Look, the cfpb is currently being used as an arm of president trump's ongoing corruption. Including his corporate pardon machine. In your answer indicates you are just going to keep that machine humming. Let me ask you about president trump's plan to kill off the cfpb. Acting director vought tried to fire 90% of the staff.
▶ 2:10:28Sen. Warren: A court told him he cannot do that on his own, so now he is proposing to fire half the staff, including almost 300 examiners. Those are the financial cops whose job it is to ensure that banks and the lenders are following the law and treating customers fairly. Mr.
▶ 2:10:46Sen. Warren: Johnson, does going from 350 examiners down to 77 examiners make it more or less likely that companies like your current employer, capital one, will get away with hurting consumers?
▶ 2:11:02Mr. Johnson: Senator, I believe it depends on the cfpb's examination shortage.
▶ 2:11:09Sen. Warren: You believe you can do just as much with 77 people as you can 350, to catch the crooks?
▶ 2:11:15Mr. Johnson: What I would note is that staffing plan is subject to litigation.
▶ 2:11:19Sen. Warren: I know it is subject to litigation, because he is not allowed to shut it down by himself. Let me just ask then about your turn through the revolving door. He worked at the cfpb as a deputy director from 2017 until 2020. And then you became a vp at capitol one at the same time the cfpb dropped its enforcement action against capital one. Mr. johnson, do you still work for capital one today?
▶ 2:11:45Mr. Johnson: I Sen. warren: Sen.
▶ 2:11:49Warren: Do, senator. So, you are drawing a paycheck from capital one right now as you sit here and testify in front of us?
▶ 2:11:53Mr. Johnson: Senator, I'm
▶ 2:11:57Testifying In Sen. Warren: Sen.
▶ 2:11:58Warren: My personal capacity today. Ok. But they are paying your ticket confirmed for this job. I understand they are also letting you keep a bonus that you have not yet earned when you leave. No, there must be really excited about getting you confirmed here. Congress did not create the cfpb to aid and abet trump's corruption. You had a chance to take a different path, but all you have done today is indicate you are there to keep the corruption machine humming.
▶ 2:12:28Sen. Moreno: Mr. johnson, are you aware you are under oath?
▶ 2:12:33Mr. Johnson: Sam, senator.
▶ 2:12:35Sen. Moreno: Have you ever broken the law?
▶ 2:12:38Mr. Johnson: I have had speeding tickets.
▶ 2:12:43Sen. Moreno: As somebody in their car business, I don't know that those count, but have you committed a felony?
▶ 2:12:49Mr. Johnson: No sir.
▶ 2:12:50Sen. Moreno: Do you commit to following the law in your new job?
▶ 2:12:54Mr. Johnson: Yes sir, I do.
▶ 2:12:56Sen. Moreno: And with god judging you, your stepmom and your wife behind you, will you always follow the constitution and the laws of the united states of america if you were to be confirmed?
▶ 2:13:06Mr. Johnson: Other than my marriage vows I don't know if there is any more important oath to take. I will, senator. >> Mr. dennis, I just want to make a point. The department of housing and urban development operates the housing trust fund, which I helped create in 2008 to build and maintain housing and affordable housing is one of the most significant problems we have.
▶ 2:13:38Mr. Johnson: There is millions dollars currently sitting in the trust fund, waiting to be allocated. For senior citizens, other vulnerable americans. And the funding should have been allocated already, and I hope that you will commit to doing everything possible to get this funding out the door as quickly as possible. And this is not hate -- every state in the unit is facing this crisis.
▶ 2:14:09Mr. Johnson: So I would hope you would make that commitment. Thank you. That is a program decision but I will work with the program and share your thoughts.
▶ 2:14:21Sen. Reed: Thank you, but I think this is going to be -- hopefully within your jurisdiction and you will do it. Mr. johnson, the [indiscernible] act was enacted in 2006. It was very personal to me.
▶ 2:14:37Sen. Reed: I had the privilege of commanding soldiers in the 82nd, and it was appalling, frankly, to see young 18-year-olds who were essentially hostile battle of a lot of money -- hustled out of a lot of money by slick traders. We put a 36% interest cap for personnel and in our meeting in my office she said the cfpb does not have the authority to supervise lenders with compliance.
▶ 2:15:08Sen. Reed: And that is, I believe, highly inaccurate. When this issue arose during the first trump administration you were the cfpb deputy director. In the bureau's legal division included that the law does authorize supervision. And this was confirmed in a letter to me on march 8, 2019, from the acting director, Mr. can injure. Mr. chairman, I asking adam's consent to enter a letter into the record.
▶ 2:15:41Sen. Reed: >> without objection. I just want to give all of the people here time.
▶ 2:15:44Sen. Reed: The key point here is that this is a tremendous tool in the cfpb toolbox and to say it doesn't exist dispersed, not accurate, and, second, it is really sort of undermining the families, the military families.
▶ 2:16:05Sen. Reed: It is ironic to me that everyone is walking around wearing their american flag and supporting the troops, yet cfpb is doing very little -- not enough, frankly, to help the troops. So, I would ask that you set aside these views you gave to me and work actively for mla enforcement actions. Is that commitment you will make?
▶ 2:16:33Mr. Johnson: Absolutely, senator. When I was at the cfpb before we had an active mla enforcement docket protecting service members. It is an important function of the cfpb. It is also of personal interest to myself. I have a cousin serving in the navy. One him and all other americans who put on the uniform and put themselves in harms to be protected.
▶ 2:17:00Sen. Reed: I agree with that sentiment. That has not been the recent history of the cfpb. So, you have to change that atmosphere and attitude dramatically and I will be watching closely.
▶ 2:17:16Sen. Reed: Miss moran, cnbc recently reported that the department of commerce unknowingly allowed chinese-owned companies to import thousands of cutting-edge nvidia and amd chips from almost a full year before closing this loophole. If confirmed, will you commit to reviewing this process and tell us how commerce let this happen? Close the loophole?
▶ 2:17:45Sen. Reed: And what measures you are implementing to close that loophole?
▶ 2:17:47Ms. Warren: Senator, thank you for the question and think you for the time for speaking with me today. I'm not aware of any such loophole, to my knowledge. The rules in place should prevent such actions. If I'm confirmed I'm absolutely going to take a close look at the rules in place and also work closely with the export enforcement side of the house and make sure they have everything they need to vigorously enforce those rules and everything that is on the books.
▶ 2:18:12Sen. Reed: Think you very much. Thank you all very much. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:18:16Sen. Moreno: I now recognize senator van hollen.
▶ 2:18:21Sen. Van Hollen: Thank you, Mr. chairman. Mr. johnson, last week I asked acting director vought if he would like to get rid of the cfpb. He was sitting on the dais right there, and his answer was, yes. President trump has said he would like to get rid of the cfpb. So, I have a simple question. You like to eliminate the cfpb?
▶ 2:18:42Mr. Johnson: Senator, that is not my intention. The cfpb is a creature of statute. Congress has assigned to add important laws to implement and execute and my intention is to execute the law.
▶ 2:18:54Sen. Van Hollen: I'm glad to hear that. So, you would agree it is important for the cfpb to deliver monetary relief to consumers that they are entitled to under the law?
▶ 2:19:12Mr. Johnson: Senator, I agree it is important for the cfpb to execute the laws under its responsibility. I have testified in the past that properly-structured and properly-governed the cfpb is capable of great good. However, I think there are deficiencies in the current legislative structure and I have advocated in the past for changes to the cfpb's authority and structure, to ensure it is better able to execute its mission.
▶ 2:19:34Sen. Van Hollen: Do you think you can do its job making sure that consumers who have gotten screwed and cheated, do you think you can do that with an 80% cut to its enforcement staff?
▶ 2:19:45Mr. Johnson: Well, as I had mentioned earlier, senator, that staffing plan is subject to litigation. The parties have stated that litigation, pending the director and I would pledge to you to have an open mind to take a look at staffing levels at the agency.
▶ 2:20:03Chair: You would agree if there is 80% cut in the enforcement authorities the department of justice, there are a lot of people who might not be getting their cases brought to ensure justice writ would you agree with that? >> it depends on the internal strategy and one other resources are available. >> I would suggest if you get rid of 80% of your staff, that should be pretty simple answer. More people get cheated and less of them get any kind of accountability.
▶ 2:20:36Chair: You would agree the bureau of industry and security plays an important role in protecting our national security, do you not? >> yes, sir.
▶ 2:20:43Sen. Van Hollen: Last week announced they were loosening restrictions on very sensitive exports to the uae united arab emirates we had expressly makes it easier to export these sensitive technologies to a company called g 42. According to press reports just yesterday, the trump administration issued the rule over the warnings of the career staff.
▶ 2:21:08Sen. Van Hollen: The career staff concerned it had ties to china, creating a risk any advanced technology exported dg you 42 could wind up in chinese hands. You currently work at the commerce department. Are you aware of the national security concerns expressed about g 42? >> I'm not aware of any specific concerns. I very much value and work closely with them.
▶ 2:21:37Sen. Van Hollen: My understanding of the role they did in the rule change was to recognize the close partnership the uae has had, especially with the recent conflict in iran.
▶ 2:21:47Sen. Van Hollen: Let's talk about that relationship, especially with the president and the president's family. Are you aware the shake, the member of the emirate royal family, is g 42's chair and that he bought $500 million of stock in world liberty financial just days before donald trump was sworn in? World liberty financial of course is the trump family crypto business.
▶ 2:22:17Sen. Van Hollen: Were you aware of that transaction?
▶ 2:22:18Ms. Warren: No.
▶ 2:22:22Sen. Warner: Did you hear anything about it?
▶ 2:22:22Ms. Warren: I have seen the reports after the rule change.
▶ 2:22:27Sen. Van Hollen: It was front page of wall street journal" story a much discussed in this committee and other committees. I just want to be clear what is going on. We have a situation where the career staff have concerns about g42. The president has a $500 million relationship with its chair and lo and behold, it gets access to very sensitive technologies the career staff at dis warrant could fall into china's hands.
▶ 2:22:56Sen. Van Hollen: I hope you have confirmed you will really dig into this. That is on top of about a $2 billion investment that the you a royal family made in world liberty financial months after the president's inauguration. You have $500 million before the inauguration, $2 billion later. This stinks.
▶ 2:23:23Sen. Van Hollen: I hope whoever is in this position will start to clean it up we had a thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:23:29Chair Scott: Senator warnock for his five minutes.
▶ 2:23:39Sen. Warnock: It helps local governments and nonprofit organizations enforce the nation's fair housing laws. In fact, nearly three and four for housing complaints are by these organizations who use federal funds to investigate complaints and conduct education about renters rights. Mr.
▶ 2:24:02Sen. Warnock: Dennis, or nominated to be the chief financial officer at hud but you are basically doing the job right now. I would imagine you are aware hud recently announced they were making $83 million available under this fair housing initiative. How many of these dollars will go to these experienced nonprofits who help so many americans with fair housing complaints?
▶ 2:24:29Mr. Dennis: I'm not sure how those dollars will flow. That is a program decision. Within the office of the chief financial officer we are responsible for making sure the funds are available and properly accounted for.
▶ 2:24:44Sen. Warnock: So let me tell you the answer is zero. Hud does not reserve funding for these organizations we had it explicitly disqualified prior recipients from certain funds. So hud is reserving zero dollars for these organizations that actually experienced with addressing these issues around for housing.
▶ 2:25:10Sen. Warnock: We have a first line of defense, they are the ones who see it and none of them will receive anything. How does this -- houses consistent with the law which requires funds to be made available to experience nonprofit for housing enforcement relations?
▶ 2:25:26Mr. Dennis: Their program decisions and done consultation with general counsel. I will assure you we are following the law.
▶ 2:25:35Sen. Warnock: I assure you it is not consistent with the law and it is bad practice. To just disqualify the organizations that are experienced with doing this work. I hope you will rethink this if confirmed this position. Mr. johnson, thank you for meeting with me in my office earlier this week. You confirmed you will lead the cfpb regulated the trump administration has decimated.
▶ 2:26:06Sen. Warnock: Last week this committee had acting director russell vought before us and he replied, yes when senator van hollen asked if he favored eliminating the cfpb. You are up for the nomination. Same question, yes or no, do you agree with Mr. about and do you favor eliminating the cfpb come yes or no? >> I've advocated for legislative restructuring to ensure a better enforce.
▶ 2:26:37Sen. Warnock: Do you agree with eliminating it come yes or no? The question is eliminating it. Do you think it should be eliminated? >> if confirmed, I will enforce the law which includes title x of dodd-frank. You won't answer the question. Last week Mr. vought said cfpb has and post "huge costs on the american people" since it inception. Yes or no, do you agree with Mr.
▶ 2:27:02Sen. Warnock: Vought the cfpb, an agency which has returned $21 billion to consumers who were harmed, who were defrauded by bad actors, his opinion is it has imposed "huge costs on americans." last question, Mr. vought also told us he believed the cfpb's medical debt rule was illegal.
▶ 2:27:32Sen. Warnock: In fact, under his direction, cfpb never defended the role and side with debt collectors. Let's decide the rule was legal for the sake of argument. Do you think the medical debt rule is a good idea?
▶ 2:27:46Mr. Johnson: My understanding of the resolution of that case was that the district court judge actually did reach the merits of that case and found cpp exceeded its statutory --
▶ 2:28:03Sen. Warnock: I'm asking do think was a good idea or bad idea? I'm asking you a policy question.
▶ 2:28:09Mr. Johnson: I appreciated our conversation on this. I do think there are two important policy principles here. One is ensuring the integrity and accuracy of information in the credit reporting system itself in the cfpb's responsibility under fcra is to ensure that integrity.
▶ 2:28:32Mr. Johnson: As I also mentioned, I don't want -- unfairly punished for incurring debts for something he did not anticipate for. If this happened to my family, I would do everything I could to ensure they are safe.
▶ 2:28:46Sen. Warnock: I appreciate that perspective. I hope you get this too much better place.
▶ 2:28:51Chair Scott: Senator gallego.
▶ 2:28:55Sen. Gallego: Would you say is a former auditor you pride yourself on fiscal responsibility and catching waste? >> yes.
▶ 2:29:07Sen. Gallego: Would you say $600 billion, half of which is paper from the american taxpayers, is not a good fiscal decision? $600 million on a ballroom, half of which is paid for by the american taxpayers come is that good fiscal decision? >> I'm not going to get involved with the the white house is doing.
▶ 2:29:31Sen. Gallego: As hud cfo, this is the job, let's try a much easier one, how about $5 million in taxpayer dollars on statues. Would that be a good decision?
▶ 2:29:41Mr. Dennis: I'm not sure what you're referring to.
▶ 2:29:45Sen. Gallego: Nearly $8 million of taxpayer money the eisenhower building being painted white?
▶ 2:29:50Mr. Dennis: I'm not sure what you're referring to.
▶ 2:29:55Sen. Gallego: The other $6 trillion this administration is dumping onto the national debt for the next 10 years with the one big beautiful bill, a bill that is ripped health care away for millions of americans employing hundreds of millions of dollars on ballroom and vanity projects. Americans are getting screwed right now. The reason I asked this question is because people are wondering what is going to happen with this country and this country's budget and their money.
▶ 2:30:22Sen. Gallego: Hard-working arizonans are not really a slush fund this administration. Mr. johnson, how would you describe your relationship with russell vought?
▶ 2:30:34Mr. Johnson: Well, I came to know Mr. vought because we were both former staff members
▶ 2:30:45Creative Sen. Gallego: One cfpb employee facing determination described you and russell vought bang as two p's in a pod. Do you agree with that characterization? Are you and russell two peaas and apply?
▶ 2:31:03Mr. Johnson: I'm not russell vought. I would make my own decision.
▶ 2:31:09Sen. Gallego: Can you name one thing you disagreed with russell vought?
▶ 2:31:14Mr. Johnson: None come to mind.
▶ 2:31:17Sen. Gallego: Do you agree with the cancellation of the $80 million order of navy federal credit union that was money owed to families?
▶ 2:31:26Mr. Johnson: I was done at the cfpb and I do not know the facts at hand that lead to consideration of any enforcement action.
▶ 2:31:32Sen. Gallego: Do you agree with killing the will that stop americans personal data from being sold without consent was a bad decision?
▶ 2:31:39Mr. Johnson: Which rule are you referring to?
▶ 2:31:42Sen. Gallego: To stop personal data from being sold on the open market?
▶ 2:31:46Mr. Johnson: I'm not sure I understand exactly what rule you're referring to.
▶ 2:31:52Sen. Gallego: Moving on, do you agree with putting medical debt back on americans credit reports?
▶ 2:31:56Mr. Johnson: That was a rule that was attempted to be promulgated by the cfpb. It was challenged in the court determine the cfpb exceeded its statutory authority.
▶ 2:32:09Sen. Gallego: You agree was a good decision?
▶ 2:32:12Mr. Johnson: I was just recounting what the court said, which is the cfpb did not have the authority to promulgate that rule.
▶ 2:32:20Sen. Gallego: Regardless, would say that you are ok with that?
▶ 2:32:24Mr. Johnson: Senator warnock also question me on this and I understand the real burden families can face if there facing medical debts. I think the government should be looking for opportunities to help those folks in that circumstance. I also said another policy principle at stake is the accuracy and integrity of information of the credit reporting system.
▶ 2:32:52Mr. Johnson: I think it is a question that policymakers should consider.
▶ 2:32:56Sen. Gallego: Back to the statute requires terms of office builder americans and affairs, among others come these offices serve millions of people. Those offices obviously can't be with a handful of staffers especially the nature of what is going on, correct?
▶ 2:33:14Mr. Johnson: Those are offices created by the dodd frank act and staffing levels are subject to ongoing litigation.
▶ 2:33:21Sen. Gallego: Dodd-frank requires an office dedicated to older americans that handles financial abuse -- we have big retirement communities in arizona -- retirement scams, things of that nature. Do you agree an office can't really do its job properly if it is done by a skeleton crew? Mr.
▶ 2:33:41Johnson: I laid out one of my priorities in my opening statement which is to protect americans from fraud and scam and that includes older americans who may be uniquely vulnerable.
▶ 2:33:50Sen. Gallego: How can he do that if these offices are guided and will not have the proper staffing to do that?
▶ 2:33:55Mr. Johnson: I have an open mind about staffing for offices and my understanding of the state of litigation is will have the opportunity to make those judgments.
▶ 2:34:06Chair Scott: That concludes the question and answer portion of today's hearing. I would like to thank our nominees for testifying before the committee today and thank you for your willingness to serve our country. Senators, following questions for the record must be submitted by friday, july 24 at noon. Witnesses, please respond by friday, july 31 at noon to the written questions you receive in order to facilitate this committee probably processing these nominations. With that, this hearing is adjourned.
▶ 2:34:36Chair Scott: [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. Visit ncicap.org]