▶ 0:15:33Chair Paul: The committee will now come to order. One million americans died from covid-19.
▶ 0:16:04Chair Paul: Some estimate as many as 15 million people died worldwide from covid-19. Publicly anthony fallacy promoted the theory -- anthony fauci promoted the theory that the virus arose naturally while privately he was aware of amount of evidence that the virus arose in a lab. The american people deserve to know why dangerous research was funded by a totalitarian country in a lab that lacked acceptable safety standards.
▶ 0:16:35Chair Paul: The decision to fund dangerous gain of function research in wuhan, china will go down as one of the worst public health decisions. The american people deserve an apology. I hope today Dr. fauci will come clean and admit it was a mistake to fund dangerous research in china, admit that the risk of this research exceeded any possible benefits, ask forgiveness, and pledged to help our government devise safeguards so a man-made epidemic never happens again.
▶ 0:17:06Chair Paul: Instead of an apology you have avoided responsibility. Regarding the lockdowns you argue you do not personally issue every lockdown order and close every school or impose every mandate. Officials across the country invoke your authority to justify these decisions and you presented your recommendations not as judgments open to debate but as dictates of science itself. Your own words demonstrate you understood the influence you exercised.
▶ 0:17:36Chair Paul: On march 14, 2020 you wrote the task force recommendations were driven by me, deb, and cdc. The next day you wrote you would convinced mayor bill de blasio to close the new york city school so you were involved. The same night gavin newsom's chief of staff told you the governor had decided to close california schools after watching you on television.
▶ 0:18:02Chair Paul: Presidents, governors, mayors, and congress all bear responsibility for the decisions they made. The covid lockdown can never of been inflicted without you aiding and abetting the crime. Children lost years of education. Small businesses built over a lifetime disappeared. Patients delayed cancer screenings and other medical care. Separated from dying relatives.
▶ 0:18:30Chair Paul: Workers were ordered to procedur jobs, employment and travel restricted in the name of science. While you did not impose every restriction you used your public authority to justify them. While you concluded publicly that covid occurred naturally, your private record tells a different story. In early 2028 hand-picked virologist warned the virus appeared to been manipulated in a lab.
▶ 0:18:59Chair Paul: In a conference call concerning the origin of the virus all but two of the participants believed deliberate insertion was possible. Your concern was not theoretical. That same week you lead an urgent effort to determine whether your own agency had funded the research related to these experiments now under suspicion. Hours later your assistant reported that the wuhan experiments had been reviewed and approved by the nih.
▶ 0:19:25Chair Paul: Those were not the actions of officials who believed their research related origins was an absurd conspiracy theory. There were the actions of officials urgently trying to determine whether their agency funding was connected to the research under discussion and connected to the pandemic. You cannot hide that your agency had funded the wuhan research or your long history of defending gain of function research.
▶ 0:19:53Chair Paul: The only alternative left was to argue that covid-19 did not originate in a wuhan lab. You were not a detached observer. You had an institutional interest in the public believing that federally funded research have nothing to do with the pandemic. It was a conflict of interest from the beginning. The authors of the origin of sars covid to had serious doubts about a natural origin.
▶ 0:20:19Chair Paul: Within days they flipped and they all wrote and proximate origin that the virus was almost certainly not a laboratory construct. That paper was then used by the government and the media and you to discredit americans who are asking the same questions the authors were asking privately. You even cited proximal origin from the white house podium.
▶ 0:20:44Chair Paul: You held it out as evidence the virus but not of been engineered but you not disclose your role in discussions that preceded the writing of the paper. You did not disclose the original concerns. You did not reveal that you had been part of the paper that you had read and offered editorial comments on the paper before it was published before you begin using it as evidence that it could not have originated in the lab.
▶ 0:21:10Chair Paul: You did not disclose that you had immediately investigated whether niaid funding might be connected to the research. Released private messages indicate the doubts with the authors and others did not disappear after the publication. While this was being weighed at the white house to show it cannot come from a lab, the authors were still privately continuing to assign a meaningful probability to a laboratory origin.
▶ 0:21:41Chair Paul: One thing in public and another in private. Some of the same scientists discussed avoiding email and carefully managing communications that might eventually be obtained under the freedom of information act. The pattern is straightforward.
▶ 0:21:55Chair Paul: Privately there was alarm and an immediate inquiry to see if niaid possible exposure to funding and then a rapid public declaration of certainty, continued private doubt and then years of resistance to disclosure. The question is why? The only logical answer is your primary concern was avoiding culpability. Your primary concern was hiding the fact that you would approve the funding for this dangerous research.
▶ 0:22:24Chair Paul: Your support of gain of function research is extensive and long-standing. In 2011 your agency funded a laboratory when it mutated the avian flu until it could spread through the air between mammals. This was the tipping point. This is when others became worried. You advocated for this. The federal government's own bio security recommended withholding the details of these experiments because of the danger the research posed.
▶ 0:22:56Chair Paul: People were concerned that publishing it was publishing a roadmap to creating bio weapons around the world. You sided with the gain of function scientist and argued the benefits of publishing the research far outweigh the risks. You defended this avian flu transmissibility experiment as critical research. You wrote that even if a scientist became infected and triggered a pandemic, the benefits of the gain of function experiments outweighed the risk.
▶ 0:23:27Chair Paul: In 2014 your agency began funding the wuhan back coronavirus work. In 2015 niaid supported research was published providing a bat coronavirus protein with a sars backbone. The resulting virus could affect human airway cells. It gained transmissibility.
▶ 0:23:57Chair Paul: It gained function. In 2018 the same group of scientists and their collaborators submitted the diffuse proposal. This involved the insertion of a cleavage site into the coronavirus. It was rejected as too dangerous.
▶ 0:24:20Chair Paul: In january 2020, within days scientists discovered that lo and behold it had a novel cleavage site just has been proposed in the product. This is either an extraordinary coincidence or a smoking gun. Evidence the chinese had created covid-19. It made the laboratory origin question more legitimate and major categorical public denials indefensible.
▶ 0:24:49Chair Paul: On may 11 you told the senate the nih has never ever and does not now fund gain of function research in the wuhan institute of virology. When I gave you the opportunity to correct the record and reconsider the statement, he responded he it never lied to congress.
▶ 0:25:08Chair Paul: We were then told only the government narrowest regulation of definition counted, that you could to find gain of function in one way in which this was not gain of function, in which all the common sense of the world would be thrown out, all of the idea that the mice were dying in the virus was transmissible to not matter because you had a technical definition that allow you to fund it. The requested is was it a wise decision to fund this?
▶ 0:25:38Chair Paul: You never admitted it could've been a mistake to fund this research in china. The american people were not asking for a semantics debate over what is gain of function. They were asking does common sense say this research was dangerous. They wanted to know whether their money funded experiments in wuhan that made bat coronavirus better able to infect humans. The answer is yes. They wanted to know whether niaid adequately supervise their work.
▶ 0:26:08Chair Paul: The answer is no. When you defended this research you describe the benefits in the broadest terms but when congress demanded accountability you hid behind the narrowest definition. You cannot have it both ways. Your contact concerning federal records raises questions. It is a crime to destroy federal records yet our investigation reveals your assistant diligently reported she deleted tons of emails. In 2024 you testified you did not delete federal records. Who is telling the truth?
▶ 0:26:39Chair Paul: You or your assistant? The committee has obtained repeated instruction from you telling federal officials to delete communications. On february 2, 2020, you told francis collins please delete this email after you read it. The committee asked for your voluntary cooperation to come today. Your appearance had to be compelled by subpoena. You are here today under duress. You're here because of the court ordering it.
▶ 0:27:10Chair Paul: President biden issued you a sweeping pardon extending to 2014, the same pardon he gave to his son. They parted may protect a person from criminal prosecution. It does not rewrite history. It does not erase documents. It is not converting misleading statement into a truthful one and does not prevent congress from establishing what happened. There will be another pandemic, there will be another crisis and there will be officials who insist that uncertainty must be hidden for the public's own good.
▶ 0:27:40Chair Paul: They will demand obedience, they will invoke science. As though it were a commandment. They will argue government officials cannot be questioned because questioning them would undermine public trust. They have it backwards. It is secrecy that destroys trust, it is arrogance that destroys trust. It is censorship that destroys trust. It is the refusal to admit error that destroys trust.
▶ 0:28:08Chair Paul: Loss of trust may be your most damaging legacy. Trust must be earned. No scientist is above scrutiny, no government officials beyond accountability. No public servant has the right to treat the suffering of millions of americans as a footnote to his preferred version of history. I now recognize senator peters for his opening remarks.
▶ 0:28:33Sen. Peters: Thank you, Mr. chairman. The senate homeland security and government affairs committee has a long and proud history of conducted -- of conducting serious oversight on behalf of the american people.
▶ 0:28:50Sen. Peters: When this committee has been at its best, democrats and republicans have worked together to investigate complicated issues, to follow the facts wherever they may lead and produce recommendations that actually strengthen our nation security and improve government functions. That bipartisan tradition has produced meaningful work following hurricane katrina, the january 6 the attack on the U.S.
▶ 0:29:17Sen. Peters: Capital, failures at the secret service, and countless other matters. Unfortunately, today's hearing is the latest step in the chairman's sharp departure from that long tradition. This hearing appears to be a combination of months of biased and selected efforts by the majority under the guise of a committee investigation to legitimize a predetermined conclusion that was reached years ago.
▶ 0:29:48Sen. Peters: In 2021 the chairman has called for today's witness to be fired, to be arrested, accused him of leading coverups and conspiracies, he has even featured the witness prominently in fundraising emails and on the cover of his book. He has also called for the cancellation of the witnesses security detail despite the fact the witness and his family have received numerous credible death threats.
▶ 0:30:16Sen. Peters: When I served as chairman, senator paul and I launched a bipartisan bio security investigation that included oversight of risky research and the origins of covid-19. We agreed the committee's work would be stronger if we get it in a bipartisan manner and follow the facts.
▶ 0:30:38Sen. Peters: That was and continues to be an area of legitimate and certainly needed oversight to write senator paul has taken the opposite approach. He has abandoned long-standing practice by blocking minority participation in committee oversight actions and has chosen to selectively release committee records the minority has never had any access to in order to support his predrawn conclusions.
▶ 0:31:09Sen. Peters: The chairman has repeatedly excluded committees minority in withheld documents and evidence from members that are entitled to receive them. Disregarding long-standing senate rules and committee president that have preserved the credibility of our oversight in this committee for decades. I have raised these concerns directly with the chairman. It is not just what we investigated that matters, but how we conduct that investigation. That also matters.
▶ 0:31:41Sen. Peters: One sided investigations designed to validate predetermined conclusions do not serve the american people who sent us to actually uncover the truth and solve problems. I wrote to the chairman requesting he adhere to committee rules. Instead of addressing concerns that I raised, he removed part of the committee's website from the public view.
▶ 0:32:03Sen. Peters: This move not only prevented the public from being able to view those concerns, it adds serious questions about the desire for transparency and legitimate oversight of this matter. What makes today's hearing particularly disappointing is not simply the chairman's actions, but what we could be using this committee's true oversight responsibilities to accomplish.
▶ 0:32:31Sen. Peters: This committee has not held its annual threats hearing at all and this congress. We have not held a budget hearing from the department of homeland security. There are important hearings that we would have the opportunity to discuss as to how to strengthen our homeland security across the board. No hearings on those topics.
▶ 0:32:50Sen. Peters: Instead of focusing on the national security challenges we are facing in our country right now, today's hearing looks backwards, revisiting questions this committee has already examined, including through bipartisan work that senator paul and I conducted together when I served as chairman of this committee. Rather than building on that work to strengthen our preparedness against future disasters, we are instead relitigating the past.
▶ 0:33:21Sen. Peters: Covid-19 exposed serious deficiencies in our nation's public health infrastructure. More than one million americans lost their lives. This committee should absolutely continue to examine how we can better prepare our nation against future biological threats. Those are the kinds of forward-looking, life-saving questions that will help our nation be better prepared to protect the health and safety of americans when the next emergency occurs.
▶ 0:33:50Sen. Peters: Unfortunately, at this precise moment, we should be strengthening our capabilities, the trump administration seems to be doing everything in their power to weaken our capabilities. The administration has hollowed out the public health workforce. They have fired, pushed out, and cut funding for public health personnel, shrinking the cdc workforce by one quarter.
▶ 0:34:15Sen. Peters: Thousands of experienced scientists have left government service and with them has gone critical institutional knowledge that cannot be easily replaced, certainly not quickly replaced. The administration, thanks to political operatives like russell vought, has slashed or illegally withheld funding for lifesaving medicines and cutting-edge technologies that led us rapidly developed during an emergency.
▶ 0:34:40Sen. Peters: Russell vought is further politicizing the federal grant making process, proposing to subject all federal grants, including those for disaster relief, and cancer research, to the whims of political appointees, not nonpartisan experts. All of this has left the american people more vulnerable to infectious disease threats and we are already tragically seeing the consequences.
▶ 0:35:07Sen. Peters: Staffing and funding cuts have slowed the federal and local response of a foodborne parasite which has sickened thousands in my home state of michigan as well as across the country. At the same time the administration cuts to global health programs and international partnerships have greatly reduced our ability to contain dangerous diseases like ebola before they spread to our shores.
▶ 0:35:33Sen. Peters: We should be examining whether our federal health agencies have the personnel and resources they need to effectively prevent, detect, and respond to these threats. We should be asking help to strengthen our bio defense efforts to deter our adversaries and prevent biological attacks against our country and how our government can better coordinate and communicate during public health emergencies.
▶ 0:35:59Sen. Peters: These are the kinds of forward-looking matters that are worthy of this committees time. Instead we are here continuing the chairman's year-long focus on one individual. History tells us, unfortunately, another pandemic is all but inevitable.
▶ 0:36:20Sen. Peters: The question is whether congress and this committee will work to better prepare our country for it or continue looking backward while our public health infrastructure crumbles around us. That is the hearing that we should be having today. Unfortunately, I fear the intent of this hearing is only meant to further a purely partisan agenda and will not make americans safer.
▶ 0:36:50Sen. Peters: Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 0:36:51Chair Paul: The accusation that the committee has denied access to the minority's is categorically false. This is the most transparent investigation in the history of congress. We created a website and we put all the information on the website and it continues to operate. The reason it has not been accessed is no democrat ever signed up for it. Not one democrat. They never asked for the access code.
▶ 0:37:19Chair Paul: They have not been on the website because they have cared about the investigation. It is the practice of this committee to swear the witness. Please stand and raise your right hand. Do you swear that the testimony will give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth of nothing but the truth, so help you god? Dr. anthony fauci, you are recognized for five minutes for your opening statement.
▶ 0:37:48Dr. Fauci: Senator peters, members of the committee, I served at the nih for over 54 years, 38 as director of the national institute of allergy and infectious diseases. Over that period I flew -- I proved that I respect the value of legitimate congressional oversight.
▶ 0:38:13Dr. Fauci: In fact I testified before and or briefed senate and house committees well over 200 times over those 38 years. During and after the covid pandemic, I have appeared multiple times for hearings in the senate and the house, usually under oath, and sat for several days long transcribed
▶ 0:38:43Dr. Fauci: Sworn interviews, answering questions about the very issues that are now the subject of this hearing. However, given senator paul's obvious obsession with calling for my prosecution, his repeated slanderous comments about me, and recently his publicly releasing my unredacted personal
▶ 0:39:13Dr. Fauci: Diary, aimed at embarrassing and intimidating me, the only conclusion I can reach is that the sole reason he is calling me before this committee is to get me to say something, anything, that could vindicate his repeated public pledges that I end up in his words "behind bars." any reasonable person who has
▶ 0:39:45Dr. Fauci: Followed his unhinged obsession with me would readily come to the same conclusion. Therefore, although it pains me to do so, because of the respect I have for the legislative branch of government and my decades long record of cooperating with congress, under the advice of my attorneys, I will invoke my right under the fifth amendment of the
▶ 0:40:16Dr. Fauci: Constitution to refrain from answering your questions. Thank you.
▶ 0:40:22Chair Paul: We will now begin a round of questioning. Dr. fauci, your testimony is compelled by a lawful subpoena. It is a crime to knowingly make a material false statement to congress with the penalty of up to five years in prison.
▶ 0:40:42Chair Paul: Understanding you are under oath , the american people would like to understand your reasoning, your rationale for why you chose to fund the research in wuhan. There've been intelligence agencies, the cia and the fbi, all to the conclusion that more likely than not the virus came from the lab in wuhan.
▶ 0:41:11Chair Paul: We would like to know what is the rationale and the discussion. What went behind the decision to fund the research in wuhan? How did you come to the conclusion that a totalitarian country would be capable of using this in a lab that lacked the security. What was the reasoning and are you sorry for making the decision. Would you give it another chance and say maybe it was not a wise thing.
▶ 0:41:40Chair Paul: Can you explain to the committee why you chose to find this dangerous research in china?
▶ 0:41:44Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:41:55Chair Paul: In the red folder on your table is a copy of section 192 of title two of the U.S. code. Your counsel has been provided a copy as well. That section makes it a prime for a witness appearing under subpoena and refused to answer any questions pertinent to the question under inquiry. You have that in front of you?
▶ 0:42:17Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:42:26Chair Paul: Let the record record the witness has refused to answer whether there is a folder in front of him based on his fifth amendment right. It is true you are appearing under direction of our subpoena to provide testimony on matters under consideration by the committee, including the origins of covid-19, risky life sciences research and your tenure as a federal government employee.
▶ 0:42:52Chair Paul: You've been provided a full and unconditional pardon dated january 9, 2025, for any offenses against the united states which may have been committed or taken part from january 1, 2014 through the day of the pardon for a 10 year period.
▶ 0:43:11Chair Paul: Arising from or in any manner related to your service as director of the national institute for allergy and infectious diseases as a member of the white house coronavirus task force or the white house covid-19 response team or as chief medical advisor to the president. Have you refused to this pardon or do you have any reason to believe this full and unconditional pardon has granted immunity would somehow require you to plead the fifth amendment?
▶ 0:43:38Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:43:46Chair Paul: Based on the facts presented I will direct you to answer the questions the committee has issued a valid subpoena, they requested your presence here. The questions are very pertinent to your decision-making as well as a chief advisor to the president. You still refuse to answer the questions?
▶ 0:44:08Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:44:26Chair Paul: Dr. fauci, were you ever made aware of gain of function research on monkeypox being conducted at the national bio analysis center at fort dietrich?
▶ 0:44:39Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:44:48Chair Paul: Dr. fauci, to the cia ever transfer funds to nih under an interagency agreement?
▶ 0:44:57Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:45:12Chair Paul: Dr. fauci, did the nih ever conduct research for in coordination with any element of the intelligence community, the cia, odni.
▶ 0:45:27Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 0:45:36Chair Paul: The reason why these questions are important is because president trump has done a ban on gain of function research. We are better off than we were we when he had an advocate for gain of function research serving as the head of niaid. There is still question whether or not the intelligence committee is adhering to that order. There is a question whether or not gain of function research is still ongoing and these are important questions the american people deserve to know.
▶ 0:46:05Chair Paul: Have you beenrea have you beenre read into any classified department of homeland security any special access program concerning gain of function research?
▶ 0:46:16Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:46:25Chair Paul: When we look at the research in china, the gain of function research you denied was gain of function, one of the things that startled the scientists when they saw covid in the first couple weeks was when they looked at the sequence of it there is a cleavage site in it. This family of coronavirus they had never seen this before.
▶ 0:46:53Chair Paul: They were also startled to look at it and see how it was coded for, what the codons were common to discover the codons were commonly used in gene manipulation. For the scientists capable of inserting a cleavage site into a coronavirus?
▶ 0:47:15Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully declined to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:47:24Chair Paul: One of the experiments that was pretty common was they would take the backbone of a sars virus. This would be a virus where the virus itself was not dangerous and then they would dig through bat guano and take the s protein from an unknown virus and infect mice that have humanized cell and they were trying to discover
▶ 0:47:55Chair Paul: If they could create a virus that infects humans. Many people will say that does not sound like a good idea to create viruses that do not exist in nature to see if they will infect human cells. What if one escaped? Or what if you keep infecting this into a serial passage and adapt the virus to be infectious to humans.
▶ 0:48:17Chair Paul: The question is whether or not the we will haunt institute of virology was combining and s protein with one virus with the backbone of others and could this lead to a virus that gained in function and then could lead to a pandemic?
▶ 0:48:34Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully declinee to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:48:49Chair Paul: One of the arguments you and others have made it as it could not come from the virus that has been published. No one is arguing. From the beginning people argued the viruses that had been published are too far evolutionary distant from the virus that could have become covid-19. What has never been acknowledged by the side who tries to follow the other side a conspiracy theory, which is something you do not usually see in a scientific debate.
▶ 0:49:20Chair Paul: This is the first time I've seen an article printed in lancet by your friends who call this a conspiracy theory. These are the kinds of things you see is a screed on a political website, you do not see this in science. When they release this as being a conspiracy theory, we are wondering that when you do this, when you combine these viruses and are able to grow them in humanized cells, whether or not this kind of risky research,
▶ 0:49:52Chair Paul: Whether you use the definition of gain of function, whether this kind of research should have had more scrutiny, I think in your house testimony you testified you never traveled to china and you are unaware anyone examined the labs. The problem is even in our country we trust our scientists.
▶ 0:50:19Chair Paul: They are good american scientists doing the right thing for america. At the same time we oversight to make sure it is not dangerous research. A research institute was dangerous with dangerous pathogens.
▶ 0:50:42Chair Paul: The american people would want to know how can you approve this dangerous research in china, so you trusted the chinese scientists, and then in the end you had to admit you have never been there and none of your inspectors had ever been there. At any of the labs with this dangerous research occurring, or any american lab oversight or lab investigators, did they ever appear in these labs to make sure they were safe labs?
▶ 0:51:07Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:51:16Chair Paul: One of the main theories are those who have looked at this being created in the lab was the idea that it could have come from a virus not previously published. Are you aware that a doctor who worked for the wuhan institute of virology was said to have over 100 viruses that had not been previously published that could have been a close enough relative to create covid-19. Are you aware of that?
▶ 0:51:46Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 0:51:54Chair Paul: Under your testimony previously when you denied ever having funded gain of function in china it was so adamant as to be striking to be no room for any interpretation of what is or is not gain of function research . There is another important question. Did you find gain of function research and other bio labs around the world?
▶ 0:52:18Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 0:52:26Chair Paul: One research project we do know you did fund is the one that ron fuji a did. This was the beginning of the debate over gain of function. I was not even aware of the debate 10 years ago.
▶ 0:52:43Chair Paul: This was over 200 scientists who signed a protest because they did not think you should fund the research, a road map as to make a bioweapon. What they did is fund the avian flu. The avian flu has about 50% mortality for humans. The good news about animal viruses as they do not infect humans very well.
▶ 0:53:09Chair Paul: It is not -- it does infect humans but does not go human to human very well. With the money you provided to him he did an experiment where he caused purposeful mutations to create a new virus, and avian flu that did not just infect birds but also infected mammals and went ferret to ferret. People saw this and were aghast at the decision-making process that you decided to fund this.
▶ 0:53:38Chair Paul: This is when the debate came about and he wrote in support in the washington post and you said even if a scientist is bitten, even if a pandemic should occur, knowledge is worth the risks. You still stand by that? Would you like to qualify whether or not the knowledge of gain of function is worth the risks, particularly in this case since we now know 15 million people died worldwide and many people believe this came from the lab. You think the risks are worth the benefits from gain of function research?
▶ 0:54:07Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 0:54:19Chair Paul: We will finish with this question. It is based on that statement, that general statement of your support for gain of function. The idea that the benefits outweigh the risks. Many other people disagreed. They are not politicians, I don't know what party they are in. One of the most esteemed as a scientist at stanford who has classified clearance and has been a consultant to our government for a decade or more.
▶ 0:54:51Chair Paul: He has written about this publicly. He says the opposite. He says the risks to this research do not outweigh the benefits. He said we should not do it. Richard e bright, who is been involved with the debate for decades says the same thing, we should not be doing this at all.
▶ 0:55:10Chair Paul: There is a quote -- the kevin quote at the very end -- a scientist at m.I.t.
▶ 0:55:31Chair Paul: Also wrote about this gain of function, "I implore every scientist fund or and nation working in the field to please stop. No more trying to discover or make pandemic capable viruses.
▶ 0:55:49Chair Paul: No more dissent -- no more experiments to disseminate blueprints for plagues." would you like to answer one question and let us know whether or not you have changed your mind on whether or not the benefits of gain of function research outweigh the risks?
▶ 0:56:03Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 0:56:13Chair Paul: The chairman has denied your assertion of privilege and directed you to answer but you nonetheless refuse and stand on privilege despite the existence of a pardon. The committee will have to consider after this hearing more appropriate action should be taken against you for the failure to testify after being directed to do so. It is against the law to obstruct an investigation of congress. There will be repercussions to refusal to testify today. Senator peters?
▶ 0:56:52Chair Paul: You are not recognized. You are not recognized. If you're unruly you will be removed from the proceeding. You are not recognized. Sir, you are not recognized. Security? We will hold off. You will respect these proceedings. You were told not to sit at the table, you insist on sitting at the table we told you you would not be recognized.
▶ 0:57:21Chair Paul: You are not invited here for testimony, sir. You are being disruptive. Would you behave this way in a courtroom? The judge would put you in jail. I cannot do that today but I would have you escorted from the premises. I would say sit quietly and do not say another word. You are not recognized. Another word and you are gone.
▶ 0:57:47Sen. Peters: I would like to hear with the attorney has to say.
▶ 0:57:51Chair Paul: He is not recognized by the committee or the chair. If he speaks again he will be removed from the room. This testimony is from anthony fauci. This is not a game from his lawyers. His lawyers can give him advice. They are all allowed to talk to him. The attorneys are not recognized. The attorney was told not to sit at the table and he is not a bang that recommendation.
▶ 0:58:19Chair Paul: There is a row behind you where you were told to set. Now you are disrupting the proceedings. This is the way anthony fauci wants to be remembered, for a lawyer not listening to the rules. You are not recognized.
▶ 0:58:36Chair Paul: Security, please remove him from the room. [laughter] [applause]
▶ 0:59:11Chair Paul: Let the records state that Dr. fauci will still have the advice of the other half-dozen attorneys he brought along today. Senator peters.
▶ 0:59:21Sen. Peters: Thank you. The covid-19 pandemic was not the first or the last public health crisis to impact our nation. In december, 2022 I released a report that identified significant failures in our federal government's preparedness and initial response to covid-19. This report contained 17 key findings.
▶ 0:59:50Sen. Peters: It is a very large report that contained 17 key findings and corresponding recommendations including the need to invest in sustainable domestic manufacturing capabilities for critical medical supplies, build the infrastructure needed to search testing capacity for infectious diseases and robustly fund public health emergency preparedness and responses across all levels of government.
▶ 1:00:18Sen. Peters: Unfortunately, multiple administrations, including the current trump administration, have failed to fund or reform our health preparedness. This is something I would hope the committee in the future would investigate. It needs to be taking a look at. It also feels like a new public health threat is hitting us every month.
▶ 1:00:41Sen. Peters: There is a foodborne parasite affecting thousands of people in michigan and across the country and our federal agencies still have not fully pinned down the source of that outbreak. Measles cases in this country are the highest they have been in 35 years. More children are getting sick and hospitalized from this preventable disease.
▶ 1:01:06Sen. Peters: Over 1000 people have died from the ebola virus in africa and we do not know how widespread this crisis actually is. We have a virus scare on a cruise ship. Although it has not made headlines in the way the screw worm threatening our food security has I remain concerned about bird flu it is also spreading and could one day cause a pandemic. This is also something this committee should be investigating and holding hearings on.
▶ 1:01:36Sen. Peters: Since january 2025 the trump administration has taken a number of actions to drastically weaken our ability to fight infectious diseases and biological threats that endanger americans. These actions are incomprehensible and are also inexcusable.
▶ 1:01:50Sen. Peters: They include slashing funding for public health and infectious disease research, canceling contracts for cutting-edge vaccine technology, shutting agencies responsible for tackling infectious diseases, firing employees with keeping our communities and our medicines in our food supplies save and injecting clinical appointees into what should be non-political functions. That is something this committee should be looking at.
▶ 1:02:19Sen. Peters: I could be going on on all the topics we need to be looking at going forward to protect this country. We are not doing that in this committee. That is what this committee was designed to do. It has done it in a bipartisan way. We should get back to that and think about the future of this country and keeping this country safe. When a crisis like covid-19 strikes we've an obligation to examine what went right and what went wrong to prevent -- to provide accountability for the american people. Congress has done that.
▶ 1:02:50Sen. Peters: Between the house and senate nearly 20 different committees, including this committee, have conducted oversight of the covid-19 pandemic, conducted transcribed interviews and released more than 10 reports. Today's exercise is a stark departure from those largely bipartisan legitimate efforts.
▶ 1:03:13Sen. Peters: The chairman has shut the minority out of participating equally in these efforts, withheld information, selectively release documents, actions that completely undermine the credibility of this investigation. I will enter a record a letter that I sent to you that details all of those areas we have concern with and where we were shut out.
▶ 1:03:31Chair Paul: Without objection.
▶ 1:03:34Sen. Peters: We will provide other details as well. I think today's hearing does real damage. It is tempting to turn one person into the scapegoat or a crisis that hundreds of officials across the trump and the biden administration were responsible for handling. It does so in a way that people that are facing death threats.
▶ 1:03:57Sen. Peters: This will only deter other scientific experts from public service to understand this is what they would have to go through as they provide their advice to us. We will not make our nation safer and I hope we can restore it by doing these kinds of activities and I hope we can restore our legitimate bipartisan oversight that will help strengthen our public health and pandemic preparedness and other homeland priorities and that is what this committee needs to focus on.
▶ 1:04:28Sen. Peters: It has not for the last year and a half. Let's hope it does in the future.
▶ 1:04:32Chair Paul: Senator johnson?
▶ 1:04:35Rep. Johnson: Dr. fauci, I hope the american people listen very carefully to chairman paul's opening statement. It is a stunning indictment of the actions you've taken that have been so destructive to global health. I certainly understand why you needed a pardon.
▶ 1:05:02Rep. Johnson: I certainly understand why on the advice of counsel you're not answering any questions because I think it will be almost impossible for you to answer the questions truthfully. Without demonstrating what you did. Your culpability. Self-incriminating. We have all of us prepared a lot.
▶ 1:05:32Rep. Johnson: I've been deluged with questions to ask Dr. fauci. There are so many legitimate questions that deserve answers and now you are not going to provide those answers. With my limited time I am going to talk about things my investigation revealed that have not been adequately answered and have not been adequately covered by the legacy media.
▶ 1:06:01Rep. Johnson: I will combine the questions into one. Let's put up the last covid chart. I was warned pretty early on about the dangers of the experimental gene therapy that you've called a vaccine. Really it falls under the definition of gene therapy.
▶ 1:06:24Rep. Johnson: I was going to ask you, where you carefully monitoring the safety surveillance systems that were deluged with complaints? Currently there of been almost 1.7 million adverse events.
▶ 1:06:46Rep. Johnson: Of those over 39,000 word deaths and of those deaths 24% occurred on the day of vaccination within one or two days. 24% which happens to be the same percentage a rest mucin pole pointed out the american -- a rassmusin rassmusien pole pointed out that 23% of the american public knows someone who died with the experimental gene therapy.
▶ 1:07:15Rep. Johnson: I was certainly interested in asking you whether or not you are following this as carefully as I was. It is not my responsibility to follow surveillance systems but I did hear it -- but I did. When I published it and people had me on their shows, they would be censored by facebook. They would be deplatformed, largely because of the actions you took to make sure disinformation was not spread.
▶ 1:07:46Rep. Johnson: This was not disinformation, this was the truth. I was going to ask you whether you knew Dr. marks, the man in charge of approving vaccines and surveilling for safety. My investigation shows that on march 1, 2021, less than three months after the emergency use authorization he was warned by a doctor that the algorithm they are using to analyze the data was going to heighten and mask safety signals.
▶ 1:08:15Rep. Johnson: 26 days later and three months after that they did data runs with the new algorithm that unmasked those safety signals. They showed dozens of safety signals, including sudden cardiac death, basal ganglia stroke, bell's palsy, and pulmonary infection.
▶ 1:08:42Rep. Johnson: Your diaries show you suffered pulmonary infraction in june 2021. I was wondering whether it ever went through your mind that maybe that injection, all those boosters you took might have caused that? I will ask this question.
▶ 1:09:06Rep. Johnson: Were you ever made aware of the fact that peter marks was warned that the algorithm will high the safety signals and were you told that senior fda officials were given -- shown dozens of safety signals associated with the covid injection?
▶ 1:09:23Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:09:36Sen. Johnson: The next area is in that same month, an employee at nih led a team of researchers who were diagnosing and treating individuals who had covid who were severely injured by the genetic therapy injections. The doctor told those individuals to stay quiet.
▶ 1:10:05Sen. Johnson: We want to make sure we gather all of the information and then release it to doctors so they can treat people like yourself. There was a concerted effort, and I will enter this into the record. It appears, inside nih, to quash the doctor publish that study. It finally was put on a server telling no one. I think may 2022.
▶ 1:10:35Sen. Johnson: What is noteworthy about this is the doctor told the injured participants that early treatment, early intervention was crucial for them to be treated. Within the nih they are questioning what was the doctor doing. He did not want to publish that because he did not want to take time searching for it because publishing it would create vaccine hesitancy.
▶ 1:11:01Sen. Johnson: So we continued to hear as a reason they do not promote -- they lied about the safety signals they were seeing. Throughout the pandemic I always push for early treatment. We have things in here where you were concerned about remdesivir because it was untested. Hydroxychloroquine was an approved drug but we had a great deal of experience with it.
▶ 1:11:30Sen. Johnson: All the sudden you have a study which was retracted within two weeks because it was falls that totally blew up the use of hydroxychloroquine and then when it comes to ivermectin, which by the way because I was contacted with so many people I referred them to doctors who had the capacity to treat injured individuals. It works.
▶ 1:11:56Sen. Johnson: I was going to ask you whether you were involved in the fda attack on ivermectin? You had an interview on cnn on august 29, 2021. I don't want to take time to find the exact quote. You said there is no evidence that ivermectin was helpful. On that exact same day. I have the studies right here.
▶ 1:12:25Sen. Johnson: There was a website that was tracking the random controlled studies. Here they are. Showing 60% efficacy of ivermectin. The same day you show there is no evidence there was all kinds of evidence. Loved ones had to go to hospitals -- had to sue hospitals. Would you try it?
▶ 1:12:56Sen. Johnson: I would want to know to what extent were you involved in sabotaging hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and did you do that because you knew the only way you could get emergency use authorization for these drugs is experimental gene therapy was if there is no effective treatment you could get the emergency use authorization.
▶ 1:13:20Sen. Johnson: Is that why you helped sabotage these cheap generic drugs in favor of remdesivir -- are you aware that nurses call it run, death is near?
▶ 1:13:35Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:13:39Sen. Johnson: Let me end on this note because this just came to light. We have patient documents and other people who were in the room. He lied to your own diary. On march 20 7, 2020 you wrote "to my surprise the potus sent a letter outlining a plan reopening county to county while monitoring the spread of virus in low-risk counties.
▶ 1:14:11Sen. Johnson: This is half-baked and never shown before it was sent out." we have evidence that you are fully aware of it and certainly approved it if not authored it. I simply ask you, is that true? Did you know of that letter sent to governors about reopening county by county? I would ask you to ask the witness to just answer that one simple question.
▶ 1:14:42Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel I respectfully decline to answer base to my rights under the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 1:14:50Sen. Peters: Thank you, Mr. chairman. >> I want to start by thanking you for more than 50 years of service to this country at the national institutes of health. It is unfortunate you have been put in the position that you are in today. And it must be enormously frustrating to know that this hearing is designed to entrap you.
▶ 1:15:17Sen. Peters: It must be frustrating for your attorneys to hear the chair's mischaracterization of the legal issues that impact your decisions at the witness table today. Meanwhile, I was going to ask you a series of questions about things that are relevant about the state of public health in this country.
▶ 1:15:48Sen. Peters: Since president trump took office in 2025, more than 4500 cases of measles have been reported. That is more cases in the year and a half since donald trump has been president then reported from 2000 224 combined. Children are dying because it has been increased vaccine hesitancy fueled by robert f.
▶ 1:16:19Sen. Peters: Kennedy, jr., the secretary of health and human services, and frankly his entire administration. Thousands of people in the united states of america have been sickened by a foodborne parasite and the outbreak is as staffing at the fda and other critical public health entities has been slashed by russell vought and elon musk.
▶ 1:16:51Sen. Peters: Last year the national institutes of health awarded I think 201 fewer grants compared to the previous years. 207. I am corrected. Compared to previous years. As those grants were either canceled or delays, especially at the beginning of the trump administration, I can tell you and my colleagues what the impact was on people in new hampshire. On scientists in new hampshire.
▶ 1:17:21Sen. Peters: On clinical trials in new hampshire were cancer treatments were interrupted because elon musk and russell vought know better. -- no better they say about the people at nih about what the fund. Because they did a word search through some of the grants and if you were studying rural health in new hampshire and trying to understand how to better engage people who need health care in rural america, that was off the table.
▶ 1:17:57Sen. Peters: America is losing researchers and scientists to other countries because researchers and scientists, highly trained, highly qualified, invested in often by the american taxpayer are finding the hostility from this administration so strong that it interferes with their science, and they want to pursue science wherever that science takes them.
▶ 1:18:28Sen. Peters: I also sit on the health education, labor, and pensions committee. We have had a number of hearings with nominees recently to fill critical spots. One of those nominees is Dr. erica schwartz, a brilliant woman, medical degree, biomedical engineering degree. I think she told her she has a law degree and a masters in public health. She was a two star admiral in the united states navy.
▶ 1:18:59Sen. Peters: An experienced doctor. Yet when I asked her if she would push back as secretary kennedy, if he instructed her to suspend the promotion of the flu vaccine as he did at some point in the last few months -- there is an email to prove it -- she could not answer that question.
▶ 1:19:30Sen. Peters: She either could not, would not, or had been bullied into evading a question about whether she is the director of cdc would stand up to secretary kennedy, the most unqualified secretary of health and human services this country has ever seen.
▶ 1:19:52Sen. Peters: And more than unqualified, somebody who pursues conspiracy theories, degrades people with disabilities, and continues to promote this proved science. -- disproved science. That is the state of health care this country, not to mention the $1 trillion to the medicaid program that is decimating health care in my state and decimating it around the country.
▶ 1:20:22Sen. Peters: Not to mention the refusal of my colleagues and this administration to extend critical tax cuts for people trying to afford insurance on the affordable care act. I just was at one of my community health clinics and they are reporting fewer and fewer people coming in for care. Disrupting care, because they can no longer afford health insurance.
▶ 1:20:50Sen. Peters: That is impacting the revenue streams of the community health clinic, their ability to hire and pay people, their ability to take care of their community. That is what I wish we were having hearings about in this committee and in the health committee. That is what I wish we were trying to address in a bipartisan way.
▶ 1:21:11Sen. Peters: But instead we are here in an attempt to entrap you because you had a distinguished career trying to put americans' public health first. With that I yield.
▶ 1:21:30Chair Paul: Senator lankford.
▶ 1:21:34Sen. Lankford: Dr. fauci, thank you for coming today. There are a lot of issues that have come up and hopefully and someday in the future we will get this clarity. There are over a million americans who died from covid. You know that well. You were tracking the numbers literally every single day.
▶ 1:22:03Sen. Lankford: Those affected and those that died from the earliest days. There are a lot of lessons that we should put into history to determine what happens in the future, how to respond in the future, how to deal with something like this again. Vought it was uncharted territory countless families watch the level and die behind glass or screen because we cannot get access to them. Children cannot get to school.
▶ 1:22:34Sen. Lankford: People missed their prom or graduation ceremonies. There are a lot of things that dramatically changed the future of the country. The mental health issues we have continued to deal with, the isolation, have been profound. Even a something as simple as children that wore a mask around adults wearing masks all the time are slower at learning language because they cannot watch someone's lips moving so they are slower now.
▶ 1:23:04Sen. Lankford: Churches and places of worship were forced to be closed down. There were even churches that met with a pastor preaching in the parking lot and the congregants met in their cars with windows up and police came and scattered them and said you can't be here. The simple act of social distancing became an issue as everyone gassed the right distance to be away from someone else -- guessed.
▶ 1:23:33Sen. Lankford: All these things are the result, not to mention the loss of life in the health expenses for many americans, so there are legitimate questions. I wanted to be able to walk through some of this, because it has been very challenging. As we have gone through some of your notes and diary and the things that are out there we are trying to pull bits and pieces of things to learn lessons.
▶ 1:23:57Sen. Lankford: On may 6, 2020, you wrote at that time, "I had a conversation with robert, the director of the cdc, about the fact that greater than one million children worldwide have missed their measles vaccination because of the shutdown. This is terrible and needs to be addressed.
▶ 1:24:21Sen. Lankford: There will be far more excess deaths from measles among children than coronavirus among children. I need to bring this up to the task force." did you ever have an opportunity to bring up the potential of measles deaths among children and an infection rate around the world from measles based on the fact that so many children would not get their measles vaccine because of the shutdown?
▶ 1:24:48Dr. Fauci: I'm sorry, senator, but on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:24:57Sen. Lankford: That is your right to do. When issue coming up -- this was discussed about whether this came from a lab or from nature. There are obvious issues and differences between the two to know this. You had a lot of conversations on this. Scientists were in conversation on this. There were different statements you have made in your private notes and public notes on it.
▶ 1:25:25Sen. Lankford: January 26, before we had our first tragic death of coronavirus in the united states, "and now appears that the genomic data of the first infection was in early december and not connected to the market, which was the big rumor out there, the wet market in china, we know the market was not the source. It was the amplifier." on january 31 you write about a phone call.
▶ 1:25:53Sen. Lankford: "the people on the phone felt the mutations around the spike protein could not occur naturally since it would require an evolutionary jump that they found nowhere in bat isolates. This could have been deliver the inserted an accident he released or deliver the least by a crazy person in the lab, the former being the most likely." the very one -- february 1, 200
▶ 1:26:24Sen. Lankford: The very one -- february 1, 202 "0there's not total agreement about the. Naturally and we should not waste our time and of our efforts to pursue this. This is expected of him since he was the original data function person with yoshi. Christian was withdrawn. The rest felt delivered insertion was possible and given the fact that Dr. xi has been working for years and coronaviruses to allow adaptation of the spike protein to bind to the human h2 receptor.
▶ 1:26:55Sen. Lankford: We cannot let this go." that's remarkable statement from february 1, 2020. They had even been the first death but you knew something was moving. You identified february 1 before any of us had even heard of the wuhan lab. Not only the lab in the conversation but literally the scientist that you named in your own notes, the lead scientist that was there. It's interesting to me on that.
▶ 1:27:23Sen. Lankford: The question I was going to ask is, your background and knowledge about the wuhan lab and Dr. xi. I am aware of where you have been. You will plead your for a minute right but I want to be able to find out some facts to help us for the future on this. The lawrence livermore national laboratory in may of 2020 put out a classified document that has only been recently unclassified that had the statement.
▶ 1:27:56Sen. Lankford: "we assess the necessary conditions for the accidental release of the modifiers -- release of the virus present at the chinese wuhan institute of virology in late 2019." the question is may 27 of 2020, this is the report most people will see. I have clearance. I have actually read this complete document unredacted.
▶ 1:28:27Sen. Lankford: My concern is were you given the ability to see this document unredacted based on your position? Were you able to see this and be able to get this information? I could see it and I know it is here. Everybody else just has their conclusion at the beginning of it, not this. My question was going to be, did you have access? It's important for the future that people in your position do have access to this kind of information and insight. Is there anyway you can answer that question?
▶ 1:28:58Sen. Lankford: Were you given access to this data?
▶ 1:29:00Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:29:08Sen. Lankford: You wrote on january 20 6, 2020. "we should be allowed to send our cdc epidemiologist to china to work with them so they can see the data firsthand." you also wrote in february, you had great concerns about the world health organization because it depends greatly on china and often baluster them --
▶ 1:29:39Sen. Lankford: Bows to them. It is not just our cooperation with chinese scientists. It's our acknowledgment that china covered up their data, would not allow our scientist to be able to come in. They cleaned up the wet market. They cleaned up the other areas. They would not allow you to get access to all the other scientists, including their health records. What happened to them or even all the sequencing they had done in advance.
▶ 1:30:07Sen. Lankford: For the future of our research and cooperation with any scientists around the world, I think it's really important we resolve if we are going to fund research and cooperate with you, we have to have certain things from you. If things go sideways, we have to have access to all the information in all places.
▶ 1:30:25Sen. Lankford: You noted that not only china was affecting the world health organization and that china was bending them to their will, the world health organization was putting out data you saw at that point as being from a chinese perspective covering up what was going on. You also noted we were not able to get access to all this information. We have got to be able to figure this out for the future to make sure research that is done, we have access to all information if something goes sideways, which clearly it did at the wuhan virology.
▶ 1:31:00Sen. Lankford: That was the only lab in the world that was doing research like this that had a lower standard of actually their security standards and many other labs around the world, yet they were doing this very dangerous research. What can we gain and what advice could you give us to say in a future setting we have got to make sure we actually get information from people and we can be guaranteed we will get the insight? Yes sir.
▶ 1:31:27Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:31:32Sen. Lankford: I yield back.
▶ 1:31:36Chair Paul: Senator blumenthal.
▶ 1:31:41Sen. Blumenthal: Thank you, Mr. chairman. I want to go back to the dark days of the coronavirus, one of the darkest days or times in our history. Hospitals were overflowing. Navy medical ships were docked in the hudson river. Emergency rooms were forced into unprecedented triaging.
▶ 1:32:04Sen. Blumenthal: During the worst week of the pandemic which happens to have been the last week of president trump's first term, more than 25,000 americans died of covid-19. Easy to forget those dark days. But for the past 18 months, the trump administration has been engaged in a campaign to rewrite this history. Today's preceding I fear is part of that effort.
▶ 1:32:36Sen. Blumenthal: One of the darkest days in our senate's history. The trump administration has launched a baseless set of smears against vaccines that help pull us out of that public health crisis. Vaccines that are undoubtedly president trump's greatest accomplishment.
▶ 1:32:58Sen. Blumenthal: It has slashed funding to local public health departments that were on the front lines of the pandemic and those health care workers are heroes. It has disparaged those heroes as woke or wasteful. It has used a politicized department of justice to target the researchers who help us track and understand the novel virus.
▶ 1:33:26Sen. Blumenthal: Today's hearing is another page in that playbook. Sadly. Tragically. Dr. fauci, you spent five decades in public service. Including nearly four decades in leadership at the national institutes of health, helping conquer covid, hiv, ebola, zika, and other epidemics with real-life results saving human
▶ 1:33:58Sen. Blumenthal: Lives. Put aside all the flowery rhetoric we hear in the united states senate. Dr. fauci has saved the lives. As have public health officials in the united states and throughout the world. And today we are demeaning and degrading their lifesaving service.
▶ 1:34:26Sen. Blumenthal: Republicans are eager to rebrand you as a villain in order to distract from their own failure to protect americans from soaring health care costs. They have been rising astronomically in the last couple of years. And from unsafe food which has caused a spread in the resurgence of measles because of the anti-vaccine policies.
▶ 1:34:59Sen. Blumenthal: This is the culmination of a years long crusade that started more than six years ago when Dr. fauci dared to contradict president trump. The campaign to vilify you is just one part of this larger campaign against science and facts. A campaign that has made americans less safe. It is shameful that in a country like ours dedicated public servants like Dr.
▶ 1:35:25Sen. Blumenthal: Fauci has experienced persistent threats to his life since the pandemic because of the lies that are told about him. His attorney has been gagged. Thrown out of this hearing.
▶ 1:35:46Sen. Blumenthal: But he has written a letter to the chairman that is an explanation for the reasons why Dr. fauci is in fact invoking his constitutional right. It is a right. I would ask this letter from david shirkler and danny anot o be made part of the record.
▶ 1:36:16Sen. Blumenthal: His attorney made a statement in the last half-hour, I believe, that sets forth again the reasons that he is here, to help protect his client's rights been asked to be made part of the record as well.
▶ 1:36:32Chair Paul: Without objection.
▶ 1:36:34Sen. Blumenthal: The fifth amendment is a right of everyone appearing before an authority like this one. It should be respected. The reason Dr.
▶ 1:36:49Sen. Blumenthal: Fauci has invoked it in the words of his attorney, "during and after the covid-19 pandemic, Dr. fauci appeared at least a dozen times for congressional hearings in the senate alone and answered questions about the very issues on which you purport to seek information.
▶ 1:37:20Sen. Blumenthal: He has been thoroughly transparent and consistent providing factual information to congress and he is deeply familiar with the processes and protocols of sharing information with the legislative branch." then referring to the chairman, "this years long crusade against Dr. fauci makes one thing clear. This is not a serious effort to seek information from Dr. fauci. And the transcribed interview fora valid legislative purpose .
▶ 1:37:47Sen. Blumenthal: You are single line really -- single mightily fixated on seeing Dr. fauci prosecuted for imaginary crimes and you are so invested in that outcome you have created a personal brand around it." those are the words of his attorney.
▶ 1:38:10Sen. Blumenthal: He cites as well the statements of the chairman which indicate a clear intent that the result of this proceeding be a prosecution . "the power of some of us must be used for good, like putting fauci in jail.
▶ 1:38:41Sen. Blumenthal: I want to give them a subpoena and a jail cell." also from december of 2025. The first was 2024. Those kinds of statements by the chairman of the committee in tweets certainly provide a well-founded fear that the proceeding underway is simply an effort to trap Dr. fauci in some kind of criminal wrongdoing.
▶ 1:39:14Sen. Blumenthal: That is not the purpose of a congressional hearing. Not the valid purpose of a congressional hearing. During the dark days in this body under senator joe mccarthy it became standard operating procedure to seek that kind of prosecutorial objective. We should not be part of a rerun of that kind of effort.
▶ 1:39:45Sen. Blumenthal: This attempt to rebrand one of the most challenging times in our nations history is a shortsighted act of desperation that will leave us less prepared for the next pandemic. It is an insult to the memory of more than one million americans who died from covid-19.
▶ 1:40:09Sen. Blumenthal: If there are valid scientific questions about the origins of this pandemic, covid-19, about the kinds of steps we are taking to counter it, about the needs for more preparation they should certainly be addressed. But not in a show trial. Not as part of a continuing vendetta against a single individual. And unfortunately I fear that is what we are seeing today.
▶ 1:40:41Sen. Blumenthal: America deserves better. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 1:40:44Chair Paul: Did no courtroom in america can you have your witness plead the fifth amendment and your attorney gets to testify. That is what that letter is. The attorney is complaining and testifying. He didn't do it. The prosecution is unfair. You don't get to do that. That's one thing when you give up when you take the fifth amendment. You say I'm not going to give you any information. You don't think it up at your lawyer for to justify. You can do it in the press.
▶ 1:41:13Chair Paul: He was not invited to testify and he was out of order and it was appropriate to have them ejected. >> thank you for doing this. People have been asking questions about for Dr. fauci -- about Dr. fauci for here's. You love being a hero, a celebrity and having the eyes of the world upon you. You loved every newspaper profile, every photo shoot, every fancy dinner with elites.
▶ 1:41:44Chair Paul: Two americans who lost family members and trust, you are not a hero. You are a villain. You made yourself the story and abandons the american people to serve your own ego. I would like to talk about your relationship with dave and rance, the senior advisor in the niaid, your office, for 16 years. He was your friend. He was a frequent guest at your house.
▶ 1:42:11Chair Paul: Over 50 scientific articles co-authored with him. Early this year the department of justice charged him with conspiracy against the united states. In addition to other charges a part of the conspiracy to conceal information and falsify records to suppress alternative theories about the origins of covid-19. Now you have publicly kicked this man to the curb, saying Dr. moranz was not an advisor to me.
▶ 1:42:43Chair Paul: Let's start with personal gmail accounts and his relationship -- relationship. It's in the record. It says "I forgot to say there is no worry about for you I can send stuff to tony on a private gmail or handed to them as work or at his house.
▶ 1:43:10Chair Paul: He is too smart to have colleagues send him stuff that can cause trouble. Dr. fauci did Dr. morens' relationship distribute?
▶ 1:43:26Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:43:31Sen. Scott: Did david morens ever bring documents to your house?
▶ 1:43:37Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:43:46Sen. Scott: Did you receive a text to your personal cell phone?
▶ 1:43:48Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:43:53Sen. Scott: Did any text about your work become part of federal records?
▶ 1:44:01Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:44:12Sen. Scott: Did you maintain a personal email account while serving as director?
▶ 1:44:17Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:44:21Sen. Scott: Did you receive work-related people from david morens?
▶ 1:44:28Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:44:33Sen. Scott: Do you preserve work-related information from david morens?
▶ 1:44:40Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:44:45Sen. Scott: Did david morens provide information to violate policy for foia complaints?
▶ 1:44:54Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:44:59Sen. Scott: Let's look at two other communications. You emailed on january 26, 2020, "it's important I speak with you tonight. Please call me at home. " this email was at the same day, the exact same day you write an internal document, "now we know the market was not the source.
▶ 1:45:25Sen. Scott: It was the amplifier." would you call the origins of covid-19 a substantive issue?
▶ 1:45:33Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:45:38Sen. Scott: Did you discuss covid-19 origins with david morens on this phone call?
▶ 1:45:47Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:45:53Sen. Scott: Let's take a closer look at the last time he testified before congress. This is part of what you have and freddie as exhibit 4 -- in front of you as exhibit 4. "Dr. morens was not an advisor to me on substantive issues. His office is located in a different building from that of the niaid director." is that still your testimony today?
▶ 1:46:23Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:46:26Sen. Scott: Today under oath your testimony is that he was not an advisor to you on institute policy are substantive matters?
▶ 1:46:36Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:46:41Sen. Scott: I have exhibit 5. On october 20 4, 2021, david morens provided information about an advocate for the controversial eagle health alliance grant. You thank him and tell them he will check the information. We do agree this shows an advisory relationship between david morens and yourself?
▶ 1:47:04Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:47:09Sen. Scott: Do you agree that you two were discussing substantive issues?
▶ 1:47:15Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:47:22Sen. Scott: Evidence establishes that Dr. morens advised you around covid origins, then your testimony would have been an accurate, correct?
▶ 1:47:34Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:47:38Sen. Scott: Any document in your position today that would contradict your congressional testimony?
▶ 1:47:45Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:47:51Sen. Scott: Have you deleted, destroyed, or instructed anyone to destroy records after learning congress was investigating these matters?
▶ 1:48:01Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:48:04Sen. Scott: Are you aware of anyone who did?
▶ 1:48:11Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:48:15Sen. Scott: As you know, Dr. morens faces charges for destroying records why you distance yourself from him. Is it fair to a decade-long friend?
▶ 1:48:27Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:48:30Sen. Scott: When was the last time you spoke to him?
▶ 1:48:39Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:48:42Sen. Scott: And hindsight are you disappointed how you have handled covid? Do you have any regrets?
▶ 1:48:50Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:48:54Sen. Scott: Dr. fauci, I want to close with this. Here is how you impacted my family. You can imagine the questions they had a vaccines for their kids and themselves and the pressure to make the right decision for their health. I can tell you pregnant women who worked with me were so scared because every time they went to the doctor and were told something different about taking the vaccine. And you caused this.
▶ 1:49:22Sen. Scott: Imagine being a mom trying to protect their kids or an infected mother try to figure out what to do. Every three weeks a doctor tells you a new set of guidance on the vaccine. The haphazard information you released and pushed on the american people with little research is appalling and why there is so much distrust in the institutions today. That trust is crucial to public health and you more than any person or event in my lifetime have destroyed that trust for millions of americans.
▶ 1:49:51Sen. Scott: He lied to hundreds of people -- hundreds of millions of people . You failed to follow your own guidance. You forced people to watch loved ones die alone or over the phone. You destroy the government's credibility when it comes to public health. We have an entire generation of americans who do not trust the institution because of you. This has destroyed decades of work because you wanted to feel your own ego and be the center of attention.
▶ 1:50:20Sen. Scott: What would you do different way knowing what you know today, Dr. fauci?
▶ 1:50:27Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:50:30Sen. Scott: All the evidence is here and you still cannot bring yourself to tell the truth or apologize because you received a pardon from a staffer in the biden white house. If we have another pandemic tomorrow, millions could die because of what you did to make americans lose trust in their government when it comes to medicine and health care. How many families have you apologize to her head to watch loved ones die alone? You breached public trust and you are hiding behind a fraudulent pardon.
▶ 1:51:00Sen. Scott: Your legacy will not be a man who saved america from covid but destroyed trust of the public health institutions were five and is a fame. This is how history will remember you. I yield back.
▶ 1:51:11Chair Paul: Senator kim.
▶ 1:51:13Sen. Kim: Thank you, Dr. fauci, for coming in front of this committee. I know it is not what you would want. It is not what you deserve. I just want to start by saying thank you to you for your service to this nation. I did not know much about you prior to the pandemic.
▶ 1:51:43Sen. Kim: I came to light about you from how many americans did, but I also had the opportunity to talk to you engage with you as someone who is a member of the select committee on the coronavirus crisis over in the house of representatives. When I learned about your background, 38 years as a director of the national institute of allergy and infectious disease, appointed by president reagan, served under seven president, four republicans and three democrats.
▶ 1:52:16Sen. Kim: I admire that greatly. I myself had a chance to serve in the executive branch, serving government under both a republican president and democratic president. I believe we need more of that. More of that type of work, a place where we can understand our jobs not as coming from a place of partisanship and politics but that of just public service.
▶ 1:52:44Sen. Kim: Right now I feel the hyper partisanship growing in this country in dangerous ways. I feel it much more present here on the hill that I did back when I served as a nonpartisan career public servant at the state department. I worry about it. I worry about what kind of trajectory we are on is a country and what this causes when it comes next for public service and those willing to step up for our nation. It is not just in the attacks.
▶ 1:53:14Sen. Kim: We see it brought out with the cuts to funding, to the firing of federal workers, the demonization of their motivations. People calling our public servants criminals, thinking they are there solely to undermine others that are trying to engage. I look at it right now.
▶ 1:53:38Sen. Kim: It is not just that the people are being attacked, public servants being attacked, but it's undermining the very nature of the work of governance. These cuts to hhs funding, to nih funding, to the grants, it cuts to the researchers doing the critical work to find cures and medicines. These firings and cuts are creating a chilling effect.
▶ 1:54:05Sen. Kim: A chilling effect for the next generation of people who might considered stepping up to serve our nation, to be the next generation of researchers who now are wondering whether or not this is the right thing for them to do at a time when they see some of their colleagues or those they looked up to being attacked. There funding being cut.
▶ 1:54:29Sen. Kim: Researchers I talked to who are now either leaving the country or considering leaving the country to do their work because of the sheer unpredictability of america. That this nation so great, so powerful, has now been crippled with this sense of unpredicted ability and unreliability. That is not the type of country that I hope we strive to be. I have raised this because these attacks upon Dr. fauci, it is not just about him.
▶ 1:54:59Sen. Kim: It is sending signals to others. Others who are thinking about serving our country, our scientists, doctors, health care professionals, researchers. Trying to show to them if you don't get in line with the politics, you will also potentially be subject to tax. And from the work he has done from hiv-aids to ebola to covid, we have seen him try to engage in these crises. They are not easy.
▶ 1:55:32Sen. Kim: Especially when it's a novel disease and you don't know what comes next. A lot of unknowns. Having to make decisions without the full breath of hindsight. There is nothing perfect. No perfect clarity when it comes to pandemics, when it comes to crises. I worked in national security in wars and crises. I gave my best advice to generals, ambassadors, even to a president. Did I get it all right? No. Did I do my best?
▶ 1:56:03Sen. Kim: I did everything I thought I could with the information that I had. The public servants do this work because they love this country and they strive to improve it. It is not an easy job but it is because there is so much at stake in our country. These public servants do it because they are in the arena.
▶ 1:56:26Sen. Kim: I want to end by reading a portion of this, because I think it is important as we think about how to be able to treat public servants in this country to think through this. In the words of teddy roosevelt, "it is not the critic who counts. Not the man who pointed out the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.
▶ 1:56:49Sen. Kim: The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who has tried valiantly. Tuesday errors come short again and again and spend some self a worthy cause. Who have the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst if he fails at least he fails while daring greatly so his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." thank you for your service, Dr.
▶ 1:57:20Sen. Kim: Fauci.
▶ 1:57:23Chair Paul: Senator hawley.
▶ 1:57:28Sen. Hawley: Nothing says honesty like taking the fit. 20 of the week is it today? -- what day of the week is it today?
▶ 1:57:38Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:57:43Sen. Hawley: What color tire you wearing? -- tie are you wearing?
▶ 1:57:50Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:57:53Sen. Hawley: What color is the carpet in front of you?
▶ 1:58:01Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:58:04Sen. Hawley: Let's get one thing straight. You don't have any rights under the fifth amendment, because you have been pardoned. The supreme court has been clear for centro moore, brown versus walker, 1896. When he has been pardoned, he may not stand upon his privilege. You know that. Your lawyer sitting behind you shifting nervously their tears know it. This is not about the constitution. This is about contempt. Contempt for this body in contempt of the american people.
▶ 1:58:33Sen. Hawley: I think I know why you're doing it. It's because you don't want to answer questions. It's because you did all kinds of terrible things. It's because you got rich, didn't you? You got rich while people were dying. Hundreds of thousands, over a million in the end.
▶ 1:58:53Sen. Hawley: Not only were you doing that, you are using federal employees with taxpayer money to apply for and solicit cash prizes for you personally totaling over $1 million. You did all that during the pandemic, didn't you? That's a question.
▶ 1:59:14Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:59:18Sen. Hawley: You remember greg fall faaulkurst.
▶ 1:59:30Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:59:35Sen. Hawley: Do chief of staff was the answer. Dear member patricia conrad?
▶ 1:59:38Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 1:59:42Sen. Hawley: Your personal assistant. What were these individuals doing in the depth of the pandemic? In november of 2020, when millions were suffering from covid, what were they doing? Faulkurst was gathering information for a cash award. We have is email right here over my shoulder. "I working on this nomination for the award for fauci.
▶ 2:00:12Sen. Hawley: We need to beef up the covid part. You have language and they can to delineate how we responded to covid." what was the dan david award?
▶ 2:00:21Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:00:32Sen. Hawley: A $900,000 cash award. And he got it because he used federal employees to get it. This was not the only award. You applied for and received at least eight other federal cash prizes on federal time using federal employees and federal resources. Here they are over my shoulder.
▶ 2:01:00Sen. Hawley: You have the partnership for public service, the adelson prize, the smithsonian award, the national academy of medicine's award, the cdc foundation. You turned your staff into a full-time application machine. You actually wrote to people and said, do you think maybe I qualify? And you got cash for all of this. It wasn't just one or two employees.
▶ 2:01:20Sen. Hawley: You used eight separate federal employees on federal time using federal resources to solicit cash awards. Is not true? -- isn't that true?
▶ 2:01:34Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:01:37Sen. Hawley: Here they are right over my shoulder. The people you used it to get cash money and you are not content to even dragoon them into applying for all of these cash awards. You had them go out to the ethics agencies and watchdogs and demand you be able to get the money. That's right. We have it in your emails.
▶ 2:02:05Sen. Hawley: Your staff and employees using federal resources, being paid with federal dollars are soliciting cash you and turning around and saying to the agency we don't want just an answer. We want to get to yes, because fauci wants the money. We want to get to yes. Yes takes time.
▶ 2:02:26Sen. Hawley: This is your chief of staff again using federal email to pressure the agency's ethics people see you can get rich. It violated the law, didn't, Dr. fauci? Didn't it? It is a question. You can answer. Go ahead.
▶ 2:02:52Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:02:55Sen. Hawley: Federal law as you very well know prohibits the solicitation of cash awards or other personal benefits for federal employees. It certainly prohibits using your own employees to do this. It says it right there in black-and-white.
▶ 2:03:19Sen. Hawley: You cannot use federal resources, federal dollars, federal employees, federal offices, federal email, federal time to solicit cash awards, and you did all of it and the worst part is thousands of people were dying while you are doing it. You were supposed to be the nation's doctor and you were playing when a tv but this is what you were doing with your time. Is not true? -- isn't that true?
▶ 2:03:47Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:03:49Sen. Hawley: Yeah, I can see why. I can certainly see why. But I can't figure out.is why you are so obsessed with it you're already rich. Your scheme worked. Your net worth was worth of 12 million dollars. During covid. During a 24-month span during covid, $1 million you knocked down in cash money using federal resources.
▶ 2:04:20Sen. Hawley: Now you are worth more than 12 a and dollars. You have a pension and his first year paid up north of $400,000 a year. A million people dead, you were getting rich. You are using federal employees to get cash awards for you. A million people dead and you are here taking the fifth because you don't want to admit that what really happened in all that time was a multi-month course of self dealing. Isn't that true, Dr. fauci?
▶ 2:04:52Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:04:55Sen. Hawley: Silence is admission. Here's the real thing. It wasn't just about the money really. It was about a power trip. Through all of this you want to be the most famous scientist in the world.
▶ 2:05:11Sen. Hawley: You were so focused on getting every word and every drop of cash that you could all because you wanted to be on tv, wanted to be the son god of science, the guy who was in charge at all and wanted to lambaste trump, wanted to make sure that no one else stole your spotlight. You wanted to be the guy. You had time to sit for in style magazine. Here's what you are doing with your time. You can sit for in style magazine but you can't answer questions to the american people.
▶ 2:05:42Sen. Hawley: You can sit for in style magazine but you're here taking the fifth. You can sit for in style magazine and get a million dollar in cash awards. Now the cat has your tongue. I'll bet he does. Here's my conclusion from all of this. This was really all about you the whole time. Somewhere along the way you lost your way. You may have been a good public servant at one time. I don't know. I can tell you from reading your emails, from looking at what you did, how you use your employees, it became all about you.
▶ 2:06:13Sen. Hawley: You became a narcissist and a megalomaniac and a liar. You have lied to the american people and life to this body. You have disgraced your profession by doing it. You called yourself the most famous scientist in the world. You did more to harm scienc e than anyone in my lifetime and I hope you go home and write that in your diary.
▶ 2:06:35Chair Paul: Senator fetterman.
▶ 2:06:38Sen. Fetterman: Dr. fauci, I'm not here to perhaps attack you or defend or anything. It is really just more honestly aligning -- wanting to acknowledge that I've had people in my family guy from covid. I also grieve for people I have met that have lost their business through the pandemic and they will never be the same.
▶ 2:07:06Sen. Fetterman: As during the pandemic I was a lieutenant governor. We were in the middle of all of that maelstrom trying to find the right balance between protecting life and protect the economics through all of it. I'm not sure if we got it all right or wrong, but without a doubt I can question myself. It's not about much more of your regrets but I have one.
▶ 2:07:34Sen. Fetterman: That is early on that there was the theory that the virus could have emerged from the lab. Early on that became like a right wing kind of theory. I thought it seemed to make sense. There was advanced -- in advance to the lab closed by a have this unknown virus out. But that became a very partisan thing.
▶ 2:08:05Sen. Fetterman: It seems now it is more and more emerging theory that would have come from the lab. I hope -- I think that the next time our nation is facing something like this we are not, as I might been, blinded by the partisan idea that maybe the truth might come from a side that is different than you are.
▶ 2:08:27Sen. Fetterman: I think we should be willing to pursue truth no matter where it might've emerged. I see I s --
▶ 2:08:47Sen. Moreno: I will echo senator johnson's comments. Do you know who david shirtler is?
▶ 2:09:01Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:09:10Sen. Moreno: What does the fifth amendment to the constitution say?
▶ 2:09:24Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:09:28Sen. Moreno: I'm just asking you what it says.
▶ 2:09:30Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:09:37Sen. Moreno: My aid will bring you the constitution see you can have it for future reference. Something every american should know. Do you know who wrote the fifth amendment?
▶ 2:09:49Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:09:52Sen. Moreno: You are invoking a right but you don't know who wrote it or what it says, is that right?
▶ 2:10:00Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:10:03Sen. Moreno: Wow. Let me tell you david scherler is. He was ejected by the chairman. The hope rife -- a high-profile criminal attorney who represented some really great people like senator bob menendez. Maybe that is somebody my democrat colleagues might remember. Took gold bars as bribes from the egyptians.
▶ 2:10:29Sen. Moreno: An article here that talks about why you would hire a guy like david scherler. If you are in deep shit, that is who you call. Do you feel like you are in deep shit?
▶ 2:10:46Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:10:50Sen. Moreno: Clearly what you think today is that somehow you are above reproach. Somehow you feel like you don't need to be treated like a normal american.
▶ 2:11:09Sen. Moreno: Can you do me a favor and stand up if during the time of the coed pandemic you were called a racist for calling the virus the wuhan virus or the china virus? If you thought the six foot rule was crap, the vaccine was something you should not take, outrageously the mask policy was rolled out.
▶ 2:11:34Sen. Moreno: If you are fired from your job not taking the vaccine, including numbers of the military, if you got closing schools was catastrophically stupid and you thought during these times saying these things make you some a lesser human being? Dr. fauci, can you look at the people behind you? You are not willing to do that.
▶ 2:12:05Sen. Moreno: That's not a question. If the request. All you have to do is look from your lawyers, look at the people, who were absolutely shamed for saying what we know now to be the truth. You can't even look at them? That's a question. Are you able to look at them?
▶ 2:12:37Sen. Moreno: There was a mom in ohio during the depth of the coronavirus pandemic. Decided to go to her high school football game for her son. They had not been out much. The kids have been learning at school. Then the school got shut down. They had not really gotten much out of that education. It was a friday night.
▶ 2:13:15Sen. Moreno: Watching football. They went to the stadium and sat alone far from everybody else. Just a mom, dad, few kids. They did not feel the need to wear masks, because it was stupid. Because they were outside. They all lived together. They are not near anybody. Dr. fauci, do you know what happened to that mom and family? That's a question.
▶ 2:13:43Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:13:52Sen. Moreno: They were dragged out of that stadium and arrested. Those policies were put in place because you had moronic politicians that listened to the words of a megalomaniac who was more interested in having medicare -- he and -- a karda shian then the suffering of the american people, and that was
▶ 2:14:23Sen. Moreno: You. Your advice to communities like that, to idiotic politicians who enforced those rules, arrested that mom for watching a football game with her own family outside. When a story broke I said to myself, I cannot stand idly on the side and watch this happen.
▶ 2:14:51Sen. Moreno: That was about six years ago today that I decided I'm going to give up my businesses, sell them all, run for office, run for the senate and here I am sitting in front of you six years later saying who the fuck do you think you were for doing that? It is a total disgrace that you did to this country.
▶ 2:15:13Sen. Moreno: If my democrat colleagues are sitting there defending you, I hope the voters of the united states of america watch the clips of every one of you doting on a guy who was more interested in being a celebrity than saving american people.
▶ 2:15:29Sen. Moreno: I will make it my mission to make sure every one of those democrats that did that will see that clip over and over again, because defending -- there is no defense of what you did. You may have had the 50 plus year legacy of public service it ends in total and complete disgrace.
▶ 2:15:59Sen. Moreno: I meant to ask you an opportunity to answer one question. Will you apologize -- just apologize to the people who you harmed through your actions? Do you have the dignity to just say you're sorry?
▶ 2:16:21Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:16:28Sen. Moreno: So you will not apologize to military members who joe biden summarily dismissed from the military for not taking the vaccine?
▶ 2:16:38Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:16:45Sen. Moreno: Will you apologize to the business owners that lost their business, shattered their lives and they will never recover?
▶ 2:16:51Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution. Will you apologize to the moms who had to force their infant children to put masayoshi son and what that did and how that traumatized those kids?
▶ 2:17:11Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:17:14Sen. Moreno: What you apologize to the family members of the people who died because they took your advice and got the 5, 6, the boosters they did not need?
▶ 2:17:30Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:17:34Sen. Moreno: Will you apologize to that mom from ohio from being arrested for watching a football game with her family?
▶ 2:17:46Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:17:51Sen. Moreno: You did not know who wrote the fifth amendment -- it was james madison. Lived in this town. I could only wonder what he would think of somebody like you invoking his writings to shield culpability for the actions you took.
▶ 2:18:16Sen. Moreno: It is no secret why you have to hire the biggest dirt bag attorney on the planet, because of what you did. I hope you are paying him well. I hope one way or the other somewhere, sometime, you answer for your crimes.
▶ 2:18:35Chair Paul: Senator ernst.
▶ 2:18:38Sen. Ernst: Thank you, Mr. chairman for holding this hearing today. Americans have not forgotten the tragic stories of people who lost loved ones during covid. Those that were denied the chance to say goodbye. To family members that were in hospitals or residing in nursing homes. Because of the protocols.
▶ 2:19:09Sen. Ernst: Americans have not forgotten the mandates, adverse reactions to vaccines the government's information, social media censorship, hot lines to tattle on neighbors, the forced school closures.
▶ 2:19:33Sen. Ernst: , the tragic rise in suicides with a business is forced to americans have not forgotten the hundreds of billions of dollars spent by taxpayers for covid relief stolen by fraudsters who brought -- but rolls-royce's and yachts. These were taxpayer dollars.
▶ 2:20:02Sen. Ernst: Americans have lost trust in science and government after the covid response. Trust which will be incredibly difficult for us to gain back. Dr. fauci, have set the science was evolving and that your recommendations evolved with it. But americans remember you as the public face of the coronavirus response.
▶ 2:20:31Sen. Ernst: As one of the nation's most trusted voices, you urged policies you said were absolutely necessary even when those policies came at an enormous human and economic cost.
▶ 2:20:49Sen. Ernst: And americans deserve answers about reports you may have worked with others to pressure the president into adopting the slow the spread strategy and why you later sought an unconditional pardon for crimes you may have committed dating back to 2014. Dr.
▶ 2:21:15Sen. Ernst: Fauci, in 2022, had a taxpayer-funded salary of $480,000 a year. You are in fact the highest paid federal employee in the entire federal government. Even making more than the nih director andaccording to now puc documents, that was due in large part to your work on bio defense.
▶ 2:21:44Sen. Ernst: Unreported is how in I-80 spent over $1 billion from 2009 to 2026 in bio defense and influence of federal contracts and subcontracts.
▶ 2:22:00Sen. Ernst: My office uncovered records on usa spending.gov that show from 2015-2020, niiad paid out $515,000 in sub contracts in china including $100,000 a few days after it opened biolab in 2018.
▶ 2:22:28Sen. Ernst: That very same institute was undersized for doing gain of function berkeley research in 2013 and yet you were funding them for years after that, sending U.S. taxpayer dollars to china. These contracts, which we also traced to niiad, show U.S.
▶ 2:22:53Sen. Ernst: Taxpayers fund and the netherlands and wisconsin, finding the same folks whose controversial work led president obama to pause this exact type of dangerous pandemic research. Dr. fauci, did you know that the nih's billion dollar contract programs were funding gain of function researchers in china, the U.S., and in the netherlands?
▶ 2:23:23Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, respectfully declined answer based on my rights on the fifth amendment of the constitution.
▶ 2:23:32Sen. Ernst: Dr. deborah birx wrote in her book that you and president obama's former cdc director were at a saturday march 14 -- were at a saturday, march 14, 2020, meeting at her home two days before the president announced his 15 days to slow the spread effort. You're now released diary said the meeting was a week before that.
▶ 2:24:02Sen. Ernst: Dr. burke said you all were trying to trap the president into having no other options. She wrote, your plan was to "block any of the president's escape routes" so "he would have no choice but to agree to our flatten the curve measures." yes or no, Dr. fauci, did you try to block or trap president trump into the slow the spread, flatten the curve measures in march 2020? Dr.
▶ 2:24:32Sen. Ernst: Fauci: on the advice of counsel, I respectfully declined to answer due to the fifth amendment.
▶ 2:24:46Sen. Ernst: You knew pretty much right away that the nih funded chinese labs. There is enough traffic from early january 2020 where your staff was flagging for you that in ike's -- nih research.
▶ 2:25:04Sen. Ernst: Yet few americans knew we funded the wuhan lab because the funding went through a sub award and was not reported to the public database like usa spending.gov as it should have been. Also equal health violated federal law by failing to report in its research papers how much taxpayer funding it spent on that research.
▶ 2:25:30Sen. Ernst: At my request, the government accountability office helped track down that $1.4 million of U.S. taxpayer money that was sent to the wuhan institute of virology both by you, Dr. fauci, and through usaid. But first it passed through eco-health alliance, which I helped to get defunded through the niiad.
▶ 2:25:51Sen. Ernst: Did you intentionally use sub award funding to obscure nih funding of chinese biolab's and coronavirus research?
▶ 2:26:01Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, respectfully declined to answer based on my part rights on the fifth a memo to the constitution.
▶ 2:26:10Sen. Ernst: Niiad affordability -- grant to such as after they wrote in origins paper that the covid virus likely came from nature. The document released last week show in private the same scientists were much more open to the virus being from a lab.
▶ 2:26:36Sen. Ernst: In 2023, representative jordan insinuated you basically gave a $9 million bribe in the form of an nih grant to nih funded paralysis -- paralysis. Did you reward the proximal origin authors by giving them niaid grants for contracts?
▶ 2:27:01Dr. Fauci: I declined to answer based upon my rights under the constitution.
▶ 2:27:11Sen. Ernst: We have learned U.S. coronavirus researchers at unc shipped "humanized or transgenic mice to china" by ron 2017 for use in their dangerous coronavirus work. Under your coronavirus researchers also used aborted baby body parts in mice research and taxpayers paid for them to do that.
▶ 2:27:41Sen. Ernst: Nih funded coronavirus researcher Dr. ralph barrick and his colleagues at unc put parts of livers, chunks of human fetal lung that they got from aborted almost five-month-old human babies come up with those parts in the research mice.
▶ 2:28:04Sen. Ernst: They disgustingly named them "bltl mid "bltl mice" and rubbed that they had created "sandwich" of the body parts in the mice. Get it, folks? Blt. I blt sandwich. Your rml employees used aborted baby body parts in their taxpayer-funded research and emails show how they plan to use those mice for post-covid work.
▶ 2:28:39Sen. Ernst: Putting babies fingers and scalps off the heads of aborted babies and putting them into the backs of research mice. The scalps litter grew find baby hair and the mice. They even included those disgusting photos in the research paper that you funded. Not all of those were research on coronaviruses, but somewhere. Thankfully, the current nih director has said no more of this.
▶ 2:29:09Sen. Ernst: Dr. fauci, yes or no, do you think human aborted parts should be put into mice for coronavirus research?
▶ 2:29:18Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based on my rights on the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:29:29Sen. Ernst: Mr. chairman, would you direct the witness to answer the questions that we have been asking?
▶ 2:29:36Cheer: I can direct it. I think we understand his answer.
▶ 2:29:40Sen. Ernst: We do understand that. Americans are asking for accountability, Dr. fauci, and your silence is very telling. Thank you, Mr. chairman.
▶ 2:29:52Sen. Moody: I am the most junior member of the senate here showing from where I sit. I just got here last year. Many of you may remember I was the attorney general in florida who fought back against the lockdowns, the school closures, the church closures, -- everything to embrace sanity and science. We fought back. We got ridiculed for it.
▶ 2:30:22Sen. Moody: And we did not just call people names, we actually impaneled a grand jury, people of all walks of life, all political persuasions. So that is how I came here. Fighting for a free state amongst states that had locked their own people down.
▶ 2:30:50Sen. Moody: We are called a free state of florida and I believe our responsibility here is to make sure that government remembers the people are our bosses, that we report to them, that we are accountable to them. Government should not operate for itself, government operates on behalf of of and for the american people.
▶ 2:31:12Sen. Moody: And anytime we get close to reporting back to our bosses about what government has done or how it has been abused or how individuals that are employed by the government had acted in their own self interest or against the interest of the america people come every time we get close, if we start uncovering outrageous fraud, we will have a hearing and the tactics have been to not show up.
▶ 2:31:37Sen. Moody: So you have all of us over here trying to drill down on why we have been given money that actually works against american citizens and no one shows up. Today -- well, nobody is here at the moment, today there seems to be a difficult -- I different tactic. Today, we have democrats showing up and trying to spin what we should not even be having this hearing to report back to our bosses. As one said, today's hearing does image, it will deter others from public service.
▶ 2:32:07Sen. Moody: Another said, this hearing is designed to entrap you. Another said, -- one fell all over himself flattering you, thinking for your service multiple times, quoting man in the arena. Another said that we are demeaning first responders and today is a sad play in a repeated playbook. We are going after one man.
▶ 2:32:36Sen. Moody: All of their time was use on what we should not be having the hearing to report back to our bosses and give the people accountability. So I would like to talk about that because I believe that trust -- the trust the american people place in our public health institutions and what happened to that trust during covid is important.
▶ 2:33:00Sen. Moody: Because in a public health emergency, they are asked to make extraordinary sacrifices based on advice given to them by the government that is supposed to be working for them. And for that system to work, the public has to be able to trust the people giving them instructions. That trust depends on candor. Would you agree with that, Dr. fauci?
▶ 2:33:22Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based on my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:33:35Sen. Markey: Rather than hard data, they need to say so and when they get something wrong, they need to own it. And when that trust is lost and the consequences extend far beyond any single pandemic the next time public health officials genuinely need americans to listen, millions of americans may simply ignore them or not believe them. Dr. fauci, you are undeniably the face of the federal government's code response. You said so it in your diary.
▶ 2:34:06Sen. Markey: You said it is not hyperbole to say I have become the most famous and talked about person in the country. So I want to understand how we got here. Let's start at the beginning. On 3/8/2022 appeared on "60 minutes" to discuss the spread of covid-19. You're specifically asked to clear up the misinformation surrounding masks. He told the american people writing on the united states people should not be walking around with a mask.
▶ 2:34:36Sen. Markey: The interviewer immediately stopped you and said, are you sure of it because people are listing really closely to this. Instead of walking back or qualifying your statement in any way, there is no reason to be walking around the mask in the middle of an outbreak might make people feel a little better, might even block a drop but not providing the perfect protection people think it is. And often their unintended consequences. People keep touching their face.
▶ 2:35:04Sen. Markey: Just a few weeks later, the sea released its guidance recommending americans wear masks and public. You were asked to explain your original recommendation and emphasized a very different consideration. You said, well, back then, the critical issue was to save them ask for the people who really needed them because it was felt there was a shortage of masks. So I want everyone to sit with that. The critical issue driving your initial recommendation to the american public was scarcity.
▶ 2:35:35Sen. Markey: Logistics, not medical evidence. So when you told the american people there was no reason to wear a mask, what was your principal objective, giving them an honest assessment of the medical evidence or discouraging them from consuming a scarce supply of masks?
▶ 2:35:51Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:36:02Sen. Moody: In april 5, 20 20 come interview on cbs that come every time I get to that podium and the white house briefing room, I essentially plead with people, please come and take a look at those very simple guidelines of physical separation and very clear, physically separate 6 feet away. When congress finally asked you in 2024 what site supported that evidence, 6 foot distance report covid, admitted you're not aware of any study supporting it.
▶ 2:36:44Sen. Moody: That rule have real consequences. Schools did not open back up, businesses did not open back up. Churches did not open back up. I could go on and on and on. And americans were kept physically separated from one another during one of the most difficult moments of their lives. Many lost loved ones during that time. Dr. fauci, did you have any evidence to support a 6 foot separation rule when you get that advice to americans?
▶ 2:37:14Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:37:25Sen. Moody: By 2022, the consequences of prolonged luck on our children were clear from delayed development to social isolation, which is probably why you are asked in july 2022 whether you would recommend locking down schools again and you said, first of all, I did not recommend locking anything down. But now we have your diary and it tells a very different story from the one you told the public.
▶ 2:37:51Sen. Moody: And I will quote, "I spoke with bill de blasio and convinced him based on what I was saying publicly in my conversation tonight to close nyc schools, he had already decided based on what I was thing on tv, I went on to tell him he should close the bars and restaurants in nyc and he said he would do this based on my recommendation. You even said that you told the president we should shut the whole country down. Dr.
▶ 2:38:13Sen. Moody: Fauci, how to use square telling the american people publicly that you did not recommend locking anything down with your own diary entry kept on federal government equipment saying your recommendation is what convinced the mayor and president to lock things down?
▶ 2:38:31Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:38:43Sen. Moody: I want to make clear when in florida, we were pleading with people to get us advice based on scientific evidence, that we were getting these conflicting statements by you that did not match scientific data.
▶ 2:39:02Sen. Moody: And in fact, when we impaneled a grand jury, the grand jury's conclusion, not surprising to anyone -- by the way, we are still the only state to have impaneled grand jury, I was the only attorney general to do this. We did this in 2023. That conclusion was the lockdown mask and social distancing advice limited by certain state, local, federal agencies was not based on the best available scientific data.
▶ 2:39:29Sen. Moody: Many recommendations departed significantly from available research. Again, people from all walks of life from all political persuasions, that is what they found.
▶ 2:39:45Sen. Moody: And yet during that time while you are giving of statements, knowing there is no scientific basis for it, we know now you know it because you have your diary entries, you called the governor that I worked with to fight to keep washington out of our state so we could indeed respect the rights of our citizens.
▶ 2:40:10Sen. Moody: You called governor desantis, and I'm going to quote this right out of your journals, "a total jerk, that he is a complete disgrace come that he is blocking local authorities from mandating masks in various locations including schools." you are concerned and upset we were actively "criticizing you" and we talked to virtually every day about being wrong on
▶ 2:40:40Sen. Moody: Everything. And what is astounding is you wrote you feared because of that, because we are questioning our government finding that for the truth from our government, from scientifically-based recommendations, because we were pushing for that, you said you feared that our democracy is in dire danger.
▶ 2:41:07Sen. Moody: Thank goodness we have people up here that I work with that understand our role which is to report to our bosses the people because they are in charge. Calling for our government to be honest with us and transparent with as and accountable to us, that is a democracy. What you did is the opposite.
▶ 2:41:37Sen. Moody: I cannot believe I have to explain this to someone who represented our government and some of the most important issues for so long. Before I conclude, if I could just put up our pardon. This is the pardon you've heard so much about. Dr. fauci, the only other person that got a pardon like this I believe had a last name ofbiden. This pardon does back to come if you will see, january 1 2014.
▶ 2:42:06Sen. Moody: Did you see -- did you talk to president biden and asked for this pardon?
▶ 2:42:09Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:42:17Sen. Moody: Who did you talk to in the white house about this pardon?
▶ 2:42:20Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:42:28Sen. Moody: Did you specifically ask if he data back to the beginning of 2014?
▶ 2:42:31Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:42:41Sen. Moody: Did you do that so you would be given immunity going back to the beginning of 2014?
▶ 2:42:47Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:42:56Sen. Moody: I'm interested why it was the state. Did it have anything to do with the date that 2014 was also the year the niiad or nih begin funding equal health alliances, understanding the risk of that coronavirus emergence grant?
▶ 2:43:10Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:43:18Sen. Moody: This is the same grant that funded the word at the wuhan institute -- work at the wuhan institute on virology. Millions of americans are questioning what happened during covid, while we were given misleading information, misleading advice. Why you gave conflicting statements based on I guess how you're feeling that day. And americans rightfully -- we lost over one million americans.
▶ 2:43:49Sen. Moody: They should be insulted when the democrats insult our chair, that he is doing this because he is on an absent submission to go after one man. But his obsessive mission be to find out why I one million americans died and who might be responsible for that? And why that started? Could that be his mission, Dr. fauci?
▶ 2:44:10Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:44:23Sen. Moody: Can you sit here today and tell the american people our bosses that you bear no responsibility for their collapse in trust of their government?
▶ 2:44:31Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 2:44:42Chair: Time has expired. We are going to do another quick round for those who remain. Any questions that have not come up that are pressing, let us try to not go over territory that has already been. I'll ask unanimous consent to insert into the record documents that show the ci transferred funds to niaid their interagency agreement we had hearing objection, so ordered. We had hoped to hear testimony from anthony fauci today. We have not. It is important we do hear from him.
▶ 2:45:13Chair: So we'll will have a video we will play in a moment. For years from anthony fauci has been the public face a saying this in all likelihood came from nature. He said it is a marketplace, marketplace, marketplace. He has been saying that until recently. What we find is that what he was saying in public is different than private.
▶ 2:45:36Chair: In january, in private, he wrote that it looks like -- we know some of the earliest deaths and sickness came from somewhere else. Within three years and years, we got dishonesty. Let's put the video so we can see a little juxtaposition of the problem you're dealing with. Folks draw interest contradict what he said publicly about the origins of covid-19.
▶ 2:46:05Chair: He admitted in january 2020 the initial outbreak of covid did not occur at -- >> take a good look at the animal human interface and the fact animals from the wild are being brought into wet markets who have animals that come out of the wild the wet markets in asia where people bring animals from the
▶ 2:46:37Chair: Forest into market -- wet markets in wuhan that are ample opportunity for virus to jump from an animal -- the origin was from that to a human --bat document very likely and wet market. This animal should not have been in the wuhan market. They know those animal should not have been in the market and they immediately cleaned out the market. Put restrictions on the kinds of animals that come into these wet markets.
▶ 2:47:08Chair: I think they should shut down those things right away. It boggles my mind.
▶ 2:47:14Chair Paul: Repeatedly saying in public something different than what he believed in private. This is interesting because the first sars outbreak in 2000, 2003 was traced to animals. They had evidence the animals had the disease. Also evidence the handlers had disproportionately high number of antibodies to the disease. There was evidence and the evidence was presented.
▶ 2:47:41Chair Paul: In -- they did look at the wet market and looked at the wet market and tested I think a 1000 animals and did not find any animals that had covid-19. When they did find covid-19 in traced samples, they found dna or the rna was consistent with human spread. This was known not later on. I did not take years to know britt was down january 2020. Dr. fauci says privately he knows it did not come from the wet market but as you saw, over a multiyear period.
▶ 2:48:14Chair Paul: One discussion I've had with Dr. fauci over the years about national immunity. Most infections you get immunity. Not perfect, some fairly perfect. Some you just don't get again. George washington knew this. He had his wife get vaccinated but he didn't because he had already had smallpox. There is one particular story a man came up to me who lost his wife to covid. He said, we all got sick. My wife ended up getting sick. We recovered.
▶ 2:48:45Chair Paul: Two to three weeks later we had recovered. They would not lead us with her in the hospital. To this day, one of the saddest things. They were not allowed to visit their mom. He was not allowed to visit his wife in the hospital. Based on this miss understanding of national immunity, for some reason two weeks later, they were a problem. This was all promulgated by you. We had the workers in the meat factories who were essential and had to keep working. Most of them got covid.
▶ 2:49:16Chair Paul: The reassurance should have come from public health that said, congratulations, you have recovered. It also should be acknowledged, was the number one thing we can duplicate another pandemic before we have a vaccine, for we have antibodies? Utilize national immunity.
▶ 2:49:32Chair Paul: Instead of the advice you are giving to cuomo and others in new york that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people or tens of thousands of people, you could have been saying, maybe the nurses taking care of the elderly should be people who are two weeks out from covid infection. We could have used natural immunity as somewhat of a block of protection -- imperfect, but the only protection we had and the only thing we could have done. Instead, the nursing homes were seated with people at covid.
▶ 2:50:02Chair Paul: I think the discussion of natural immunity is one where there wasn't sufficient honesty and in a presentation to encourage people. The only encouraging thing we have for a while was come you are -- you've got it, or close to a possible chance you get it again. Nobody was reassured. Well, we don't know. We don't quite understand natural immunity.
▶ 2:50:24Chair Paul: My favorite quote from that is from harvard, called in one of the people you had to take down from the french ab adult neurologist -- french epidemiologist prayed he jokingly said, yeah, we knew about natural immunity from 486 b.c. From the time of the athenian plague, lost all knowledge of it in 2020. The good news is it is slowly coming back. We are beginning to understand what natural immunity is again.
▶ 2:50:56Chair Paul: Not something perfect but a useful tool and something that could have helped people by telling the public, my goodness, you are not going to die. If you've already had it in your 85 years old and they're telling you to wear four masks and not be around your wife when you've had it, it made no sense. I visited with a man whose mom was 83 and she was dying from covid. They go to the hospital in orange county.
▶ 2:51:23Chair Paul: They won't admit her to the hospital until she is vaccinated because "we have a policy that everybody must be vaccinated." she's got covid and they wanted to vaccinate her. At one point in time, the cdc understood this. They told people, do not get vaccinated if you've had covid within three months. Why? , give you a heightened immune response when you already have heightened immune response.
▶ 2:51:45Chair Paul: For giving someone very sick and may even die from covid, die from this storm of response, immune storm read the answer would not be try to stir up their immune by giving them a vaccine. The answer was steroids. Good old-fashioned steroids. 37% reduction in debt. Turned out to be way more value -- valuable than any other treatment.
▶ 2:52:16Chair Paul: I wish we could have done more today. I would have been willing to accept an apology today. I am sorry I made mistakes. We all made mistakes. I thought again of function research -- the risks were worth the benefits but I have reassessed since 15 million people died. People say, gosh, these things never happen. We know it happened in 1977. We know in 1977 there something called the russian flu.
▶ 2:52:45Chair Paul: When they sequenced it, they found out he flew in 1977 had exactly the same rna as 1954 one they had the lead they created a vaccine for. It turns out anyone born before 1954 was immune and the only people who got it or people born between 1954-1977. It was identical. The genetic sequence was identical to this vaccine or the virus from 1954 and that does not happen because these respiratory viruses are always mutating.
▶ 2:53:16Chair Paul: To be identical means it had to have been leaked from the lab. We know this happens. An author wrote a book that said there are 1200 cases of significant accidents that have occurred. We knew this and yet it was completely discounted because I think you are worried that if it was seen you find a dangerous research that started the pandemic, you would be blamed. It was a concerted effort. It wasn't just you.
▶ 2:53:44Chair Paul: Anyone associated with the funding decided we needed to protect ourselves. Senator johnson.
▶ 2:53:48Sen. Johnson: You mentioned we lost natural immunity. I did not. Dr. fauci did break I supposedly had asymptomatic case of covid because the faulty test. I never got vaccinated. No way I would have done that because I found out enough about the mrna gene therapy. You also brought up the issue of hospital protocols. I'm going to be holding a public event on hospital protocols.
▶ 2:54:16Sen. Johnson: We have received a hundred testimonies. They are heart wrenching. They are heart wrenching. Here's an excerpt from the testimony of a very experienced doctor for decades, providence regional medical center in washington, "after our hospital was given remdisiver, we were provided misleading/inaccurate information about the drug by medical leadership.
▶ 2:54:40Sen. Johnson: When I had a young trauma patient who is a perfect candidate for remdesivir, the infectious disease doctor on call told me to not give it to her because 'she. Seemed like a nice girl' it was don't really that remdisiver kills." it never made sense to me we put all of our eggs in experiment of gene therapy.
▶ 2:55:10Sen. Johnson: If you knew anything about it, you would have avoided it like the plague. We sabotaged early treatment. The only treatment we really approved, antibodies, which I think worked pretty well but they were not particularly available, denied to a lot of patients, was all remdisiver. Based on the study the nih change the endpoint from mortality to his recovery.
▶ 2:55:36Sen. Johnson: A drug the w.h.o recommended in 2020 but cost over $3000 for a course of treatment. Versus things like ivermectin, a dresser chloroquine who even Dr. fauci -- I should've got that one out because I want to take this time to put it in the record. We need to have a tight protocol on room because it is unknown but hydroxychloroquine has some side effects that we have a long history of it. Let me put up my latest chart.
▶ 2:56:12Sen. Johnson: I used this chart as a comparison. Have ivermectin hydroxychloroquine, does not prove causation but there is correlation. Ivermectin, over 30 years of fda reports, 17 deaths per year. Hydroxychloroquine, over 38 years of reporting, 142 deaths per year.
▶ 2:56:39Sen. Johnson: Remdisiver, over 5.5 years, 546 deaths per year. Covid injection from almost 7000 deaths per year. Which is safest? What does the fda freak us out about? Ivermectin hydroxychloroquine attorney complete blind side the -- and turn a complete blind eye.
▶ 2:57:02Sen. Johnson: Here's the answer, and interviewed says when comes to many, we for financial ties on the government panel devising coronavirus treatment guidelines which have the effect of dialing back hydroxychloroquine use and giving remdisiver. Links to a drug company come another name -- community leaders have ties to gilead beyond the 11 months we had to disclose.
▶ 2:57:29Sen. Johnson: Two were on gilead's advisory board and others were paid consultants. By the way, within the study, I think one of the study participants was an employee of gilead and also had conflict with gilead. I wonder why? Conference of interest gilead made billions of dollars off remdisiver of people died. In terms I've ignoring safety signals, you can probably put that down now, this has come to light.
▶ 2:57:56Sen. Johnson: This is a doctor who got the note -- develop price who wrote to Dr. fauci -- who got the nobel prize to Dr. fauci, I wanted to alert you to new data we generated with our mrna vaccine. It was a higher fold dose but that mrna lmp go to the placenta if he does measures by translation of the mrna and cause immune response to the amniotic fluid. So that same day Dr.
▶ 2:58:25Sen. Johnson: Fauci responds, it would be interesting to see what human dose levels given intramuscular do. So about a month later, Dr. wiseman replies and said, we still have some concerns for the data after they tested. There is more documentation in terms of the fda blew it off.
▶ 2:58:49Sen. Johnson: Don't write about that, that is what peter marx did when he was shown is algorithm was going to match safety signals. The last thing I want to enter into the record is -- I want to make the point, why is this important? They buried the treatment of severely injection -- the fact we have analogies of injuries, these people can't get treatment. They're being ghastly by their doctors.
▶ 2:59:19Sen. Johnson: It is all in your head. The rate of the injection injury of the suicides is increasing because they have given up hope because our medical staff and health agencies failed to acknowledge it. Treating and diagnosing in march 2021. This concerned people. Give Dr. walter rights Dr.
▶ 2:59:38Sen. Johnson: Fauci , there's been a steady slow stream of reports to me postvaccination neurological conditions. Is been collecting a bunch and has reports set out to publish. That alarmed everybody. Can't let the public know what is actually happening. You can't let the public know what the science is showing.
▶ 3:00:05Sen. Johnson: So on april 29, in email says, I find this approach troubling and will have the main consequence of feeding vaccine hesitancy social media overreaction. Then Dr. lawrence, writes to francis collins, I don't understand what -- why walter does not shut this thing down. What a shut down that?
▶ 3:00:37Sen. Johnson: Treating injection injured? Why? Because a vaccine hesitancy. Because we have not acknowledge that. The reason I have been advocating for this is because I know injection injured. I know people who lost loved ones within days of the injection. And we have turned our backs on them. They deserve acknowledgment. They deserve to be heard, seen, and believed so they can get treatment.
▶ 3:01:06Sen. Johnson: Also another doctors whose careers were destroyed because denigrated things like ivermectin and denied ivermectin to people in hospitals who got her kidneys run by remdisiver and got put on ventilators and never got to hug their loved ones goodbye because of hospital protocols. That is what your science did to people. Dr.
▶ 3:01:27Sen. Johnson: Fauci, based on your lack of testimony here today, face quite honestly on our investigation into the cover up of safety signals and injection injuries, we have issued letters to a number of former fda officials to come in for transcribed interviews, you will be getting a letter today asking for volunteer transcribed interview. Will you comply or will I have to subpoena you? Dr.
▶ 3:01:54Sen. Johnson: Fauci: on the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:02:03Sen. Johnson: Expect a subpoena.
▶ 3:02:04Chair Paul: Sen. scott: did you receive any payments related to covid related intellectual property?
▶ 3:02:12Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:02:20Sen. Scott: Why would any american believe these financial ties did not influence decisions about which treatments were promoted restricted?
▶ 3:02:29Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:02:36Sen. Scott: Why doesn't niiad publicly disclose these payments?
▶ 3:02:41Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:02:48Sen. Scott: Did you partner with bill gates on global health initiatives or vaccines?
▶ 3:02:51Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:02:59Sen. Scott: How much did bill gates provide funding to niiad since 2005?
▶ 3:03:06Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:03:11Sen. Scott: To your knowledge did bill gates and with china insensitive research?
▶ 3:03:15Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:03:23Sen. Scott: Specifically, bill used research such as countermeasures to gain function?
▶ 3:03:25Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:03:33Sen. Scott: Do you know if bill gates partnered with classified programs?
▶ 3:03:37Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:03:43Sen. Scott: Do you know if bill gates maintains an acting security clearance?
▶ 3:03:47Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:03:54Sen. Scott: Did you advocate for him to receive security clearance?
▶ 3:03:56Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:04:02Sen. Scott: You have any knowledge that niiad or nih requested security cleansed -- clearance for bill gates?
▶ 3:04:11Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:04:17Sen. Scott: My understanding is the government shifted its port-au-prince countermeasure research to niiad in your leadership with the obama house or any other U.S. entities on countermeasures research?
▶ 3:04:29Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:04:34Sen. Scott: Did your office take steps to biological reinvestments?
▶ 3:04:39Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:04:45Sen. Scott: Type of research in the 2010 timeframe and before?
▶ 3:04:50Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:04:57Sen. Scott: Wasn't considered too dangerous to conduct are hesitant to take this on and invest in?
▶ 3:05:02Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:05:08Sen. Scott: Why did you take steps to mature the government bow defense?
▶ 3:05:12Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:05:19Sen. Scott: Were there any specific lines of direction she felt were needed during this time to improve the research development?
▶ 3:05:24Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:05:30Sen. Scott: I was to use and gain of function inc. For mentoring bow defense countermeasures?
▶ 3:05:37Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:05:43Sen. Scott: Did you ever discuss gain function, countermeasures research to private industry?
▶ 3:05:49Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:05:56Sen. Scott: How are these private organizations regulator through government oversight while conducting risky research including gain of function technology?
▶ 3:06:03Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:06:10Sen. Scott: Did the obama white house or any government entity take steps to inject funding and private industry?
▶ 3:06:14Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:06:22Sen. Scott: How to ensure our national security public health is protected when private organizations work with foreign countries of concern and have no government oversight such as the great you find it in ccp military lab?
▶ 3:06:35Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:06:42Sen. Scott: Did -- given the culture of the pay to play an id --niiad. --niiad, inner any arrangement any way or fashion secure english to broad party received from president biden?
▶ 3:07:00Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:07:04Chair Paul: I would ask to enter into the record a letter from the department of energy that confirms during anthony fauci's tenure that bill gates was given q security claims from 2014-2021 freed without objection, that will be entered into the record. I asked unanimous consent to enter into the record the contents of the folder of authorities provided to Dr. fauci including the pardon.
▶ 3:07:38Chair Paul: Let us be clear today what we have seen, I really did want to hear from Dr. fauci. I wanted to hear perhaps an apology, perhaps some semblance of being sorry for what happened or that judgment errors were made. We did not hear any of that. But he was subpoenaed to testify and refuse to answer any questions even after being directed by the chair and being advised of the law requiring him to do so.
▶ 3:08:07Chair Paul: Yes I did a privilege that is unsupported because of his blanket pardon and because he waved privilege by testifying at the start. I'm going to give you one more opportunity to comply with the law from limited to the period of your pardon, at any point between january 1, 2014 and january 19, 2025 did you destroy any federal record or tell anyone else to?
▶ 3:08:31Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:08:42Chair Paul: Given you have an unlimited presidential pardon, what is your specific objection you are making?
▶ 3:08:49Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:08:56Chair Paul: My question was limited to your pardon only. I find your objection unsupported and direct you to answer the question.
▶ 3:09:04Dr. Fauci: On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer based upon my rights under the fifth amendment to the constitution.
▶ 3:09:10Chair Paul: Because you refused to answer setting a privilege unsupported because of your pardon, after being denied to do so, this committee has scheduled a vote next week on a resolution certifying your contempt. I think we have another question or two.
▶ 3:09:29Sen. Lankford: This is a question for you, question to try to figure out how we get a good answer on this? Clearly, Dr. fauci's attorneys are saying he has a fifth amendment right. We have also subpoenaed him to compel his testimony, to be here. I happen to be in the committee also dealing with lois lerner. Lois lerner came and gave an opening statement and then took the fifth amendment.
▶ 3:09:59Sen. Lankford: The committee then held her in contempt for that saying you can't do both. You can't both testify and say I'm not going answer questions. The parliamentary question we have to be able to deal with is is this consistent with lois lerner? What she did when she came before congress and gave an opening statement, testimony, so made a statement and then refused to answer questions. Are we dealing with the same issue here were someone -- you can't make a statement and say I'm not going to make statements at the same time.
▶ 3:10:28Chair Paul: I think that is something all of us will examine over the next week when we have a vote next week on contempt. I think there's another legal question the courts may decide upon, that is whether or not presidential pardon offers you complete immunity that you can still claim you need protection from immunity when you have him protected. Because Dr. fauci isn't liable for anything as long as he tells the truth.
▶ 3:10:54Chair Paul: Even if he admits he destroyed records on a routine basis, his assistant said she destroyed a ton of emails. I think it was routine. I think he destroyed throughout his career thousands of emails. Evening -- even if he did that as long as he answers truthfully , you can't be prosecuted for it. Many of the things are outside of the statute of limitations as well. All you do today was be honest.
▶ 3:11:24Chair Paul: Even about committing a crime, he would have no jeopardy. I think the pardon does -- has given him more immunity than most people would ever get. If you offer a witness immunity in exchange for testimony, he has blanket immunity. The president gave him blanket immunity for personal -- pretty much anything he had done while at nih. I think we have to individually answer this question, but there will be a vote.
▶ 3:11:53Chair Paul: We plan to have a vote next week on contempt. Today will be the capstone to anthony fauci's 40 years of abuse of power at nih. In the end, he believes he got away with it. Late at night, even the guilty must become anxious, rerunning the scenarios through his mind wondering, latching onto lingering doubts and worrying, did his actions lead to the largest man-made plague in human history?
▶ 3:12:22Chair Paul: Are the millions dead the result of his experiments or experiments he approved that increased the deadly viruses? History will judge and the facts as we now know them and sordid tale of dishonesty, misjudgment, and ultimately, hubris the likes of which the world has rarely seen. If everyone will remain seated for a few minutes, we will let Dr. fauci exit. Thank you.