▶ 0:15:38>> -- explore the relationship between telecommunications infrastructure and artificial intelligence. Every relationship moves in both directions. Ai requires low latency and high bandwidth networks. Ai has real potential to make networks more efficient and secure. This hearing is not intended to be a referendum on the merits artificial intelligence.
▶ 0:16:04Around the world, however, our allies and adversaries are jockeying for ai leadership. To position the united states for ongoing economic and security leadership, the U.S. needs ai supported and enhanced networks. Ai is increasingly part of americans' daily lives.
▶ 0:16:28In 2020 for nearly three quarters of enterprises -- 20 24 nearly three quarters of enterprises used ai for at least one business functions. 2025 nearly half of americans reported using generative ai. These trends have been accompanied by a surge in demand across networks and ai adoption is only expected to grow.
▶ 0:16:53Most enterprises are still scaling their uses of ai and many individual ai uses are for basic search functions. As ai use and downstream applications of ai continue to grow, demand for reliable, high-speed, high-capacity networks will also grow. Today, we will explore how the rapid adoption of ai has impacted existing network infrastructure.
▶ 0:17:23This includes the new demand that ai has added to networks. We will explore how widespread ai use has forced networks to involve, requiring more capacity and more complex designs so that ai can run efficiently on those networks. We will consider how government providers and other industries are responding to that demand.
▶ 0:17:50Private companies have invested hundreds of billions of dollars in network deployment in recent years. Various federal broadband programs have also provided billions to support targeted network deployment and maintenance throughout the country.
▶ 0:18:10We will review obstacles to ai-supported networks, opaque regulations, and lack of coordination should not be in the way of network deployment, network development, and the many downstream applications it enables. And finally, we will consider how ai can be used to improve our networks. Zooming out from the technical questions, we must also ask a more fundamental question. Why must our networks be prepared for ai?
▶ 0:18:43First, america has a geo-strategic imperative to make sure our networks are the best in the world. Now more than ever we cannot fall behind in developing the most resilient and secure networks. Second, to reap the full economic benefits from ai and other rapidly emerging technologies many of them are promising and we need reliable connectivity for individuals and enterprises all over the
▶ 0:19:13Country. This is not connectivity for the sake of just checking a box or hitting a milestone. Nebraska's hardest to reach communities include farms and ranches that are at the leading edge of connectivity-based ag solutions.
▶ 0:19:34Rural hospitals depend on resilient and secure communication networks to use state-of-the-art medical technologies and reach patients in remote areas. Manufacturers rely on the internet of things, on robotics, and on cloud-based systems to streamline internal processes and improve quality control.
▶ 0:20:00As ai adoption increases, so will the demand for reliable and resilient communications infrastructure. Networks are the backbone along with enormous amounts of data associated with ai are transmitted. I look forward to discussing both how networks are adapting to respond to ai and how ai is being used in networks to proactively plan for the future. Thank you.
▶ 0:20:29Before we begin, I would ask unanimous consent that letters from a broad range of organizations describing the need for ai-ready communication networks be entered into the record. We have a number of them. Without objection, so ordered. Senator lujan will be joining us shortly, but we will begin the hearing. And I would like to introduce our witnesses for today.
▶ 0:21:00Our first witness is jonathan spalter, president and chief executive officer of ustelecom, the broadband association, a trade association representing the broadband providers and communication companies that build, operate, and secure networks essential for america's ai economy.
▶ 0:21:23I would like to give a warm welcome to our second witness, commissioner dan watermeier of the nebraska public service commission, which oversees the telecommunication carriers and related services that support ai-powered applications throughout the state of nebraska.
▶ 0:21:42Our third witness is bob everson, chief architect of provider mobility at cisco where he leads the design and development of mobile network platforms and an end to end architectures that enable ai-driven communications networks.
▶ 0:21:58And our final witness is asad ramzanali, director of artificial intelligence and technology policy at vanderbilt university. Welcome to you all. We will now have the opening comments from our panel. Mr. spalter, I understand that it's your birthday. Happy birthday. You will be recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:22:26Mr. Spalter: Thank you. And I couldn't imagine spending my birthday anywhere else. Thank you. Thank you, chair fischer, senator klobuchar, and the other members of the subcommittee. But I was thinking about, how to prepare my remarks today, I took inspiration from the trip I took a couple of weeks back to the rafters of the capitol dome to take a look at constantine's amazing fresco.
▶ 0:22:58Mr. Spalter: I so much to my disbelief given my day job that there was the goddess venus actually laying the very first american submarine telegraph cable. The scene was painted in 1865. The very moment that america was laying that first transoceanic telegraph cable.
▶ 0:23:20Mr. Spalter: The civil war was ending and it was then a very visionary congress believed the future of our country ran through communications of the structure. They were right then. You on this committee are right now to expand that dialogue in the current ai moment we are in. Because with ai we really are at the cusp of the next fundamental evolution of the internet.
▶ 0:23:47Mr. Spalter: For 30 years the internet we've come to know was built kind of like a freeway. Imagine with eight lanes going into town but only two lanes coming back. That asymmetric design was literally baked and as the assumption -- on the assumption that we human beings and our devices would always receive more data then we send.
▶ 0:24:09Mr. Spalter: As we all go home to binge stream "love island" while our kids are playing roblox that is the case. Except as we move forward into the ai phase of the internet that assumption is being completely shattered. Now the machines and sensors all around us require massive capacity to carry data both upstream and down. Which fiber broadband uniquely suited to do.
▶ 0:24:37Mr. Spalter: Other technologies we know are working to expand their upstream capacity. That fiber doesn't have to. It never had to. It was built for this era with near limitless capacity and low latency in both directions. This is why satellite and wireless and wi-fi and other technologies that might become available in the connectivity landscape will always handoff their traffic to fiber as quickly as they can to take advantage of its massive capacity and low latency.
▶ 0:25:07Mr. Spalter: It's for this reason that fiber broadband really is the circulatory system of our ai enabled innovation economy. Thus, for us, the biggest barrier to getting ai-ready connectivity to every community isn't technology. It isn't investment. Nor is it our will. We are ready. It is government. Specifically permitting.
▶ 0:25:35Mr. Spalter: Waiting months, even years for permission to connect more communities to broadband. Our asks today are very straightforward. Pass the close the gap act, the real act, the accelerating broadband act so we can get our shovels and fiber network in the ground and connect more of your communities to make sure that they too are going to be part of our ai future. Let me emphasize this point.
▶ 0:26:00Mr. Spalter: Without permitting reform to speed up fiber network deployment, not just ai, but our whole innovation economy is at risk of being put on ice. And nowhere is this more true than in rural america. As you rightly pointed out, chair. The communities that need us most are those where your actions today can make the biggest difference. In 18 65 congress looked at a single telegraph cable on the ocean floor and they saw the american future.
▶ 0:26:31Mr. Spalter: We were optimists then and we must be optimists now with a healthy dose of pragmatism built in as well. The question before us I believe as a society is not do we stop or continue. It's the question that has been perpetually asked by innovation. One that we've successfully answered. How do we proceed responsibly in ways that will most fully benefit everyone? And that is the task before us.
▶ 0:26:57Mr. Spalter: America's broadband providers to a person look forward to working with you. And on behalf of all of you as telecom member companies, I really thank you for the opportunity to be here on my birthday. I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:27:11Chair Fischer: Thank you, Mr. spalter. We have been joined by my dear friend and colleague, ranking member lujan. You have comments that you would like to make at this time?
▶ 0:27:22Sen. Lujan: Thank you so much for putting this hearing together.
▶ 0:27:27Chair Fischer: Thank you, ranking member. Commissioner watermeier, you are now recognized for five minutes for your opening comments.
▶ 0:27:35Mr. Watermeier: Good morning chair fischer and members of the committee. My name is dan watermeier and I represent nebraska's first district on the public service commission. I appreciate the invitation to speak to you today about the future of ai, technologies, opportunities, and the challenges it offers to nebraska and on the scale. It is dedicated to the advancement of broadband funding.
▶ 0:27:59Mr. Watermeier: Since the early 2000 we have administered nebraska universal service fund which supports the development and maintenance of broadband cable networks at 100 speeds. We have administered the nebraska bridge program at the federally funded capital funding projects fund, which over the course of the last few grant cycles, broadband deployment projects fueled competition to build over 20,000 unserved and underserved across the state. Over the past five years we have been fortunate to receive federal and state funds.
▶ 0:28:30Mr. Watermeier: I'm excited to see how this enthusiasm will grow as we develop new ai tools. Ai could become a tremendous support for our agriculture producers and already has. Precision agriculture tools are fantastic ways to conserve water, monitor livestock health, and target applications of fertilizers and pesticides, saving money and protecting the environment at the same time. These ai-power tools are the future of agriculture, but we need reliable, universally stable, and available broadband in order to use them.
▶ 0:29:02Mr. Watermeier: As option of and reliance on ai technology increases, it will be more important to make sure all americans have access to reliable high-speed broadband networks. We need to ensure that rural americans are not left behind on this. Technology moves forward. The average citizen, ai technology is only useful with access to broadband connectivity. We must continue to fund rural buildout or this technology simply won't be available for all who need it.
▶ 0:29:28Mr. Watermeier: I want to mention the importance of fiber buildout, as my partner mentioned. While we recognize that many technologies may be able to deliver broadband to our citizens, our commission has focused on fiber development for a few reasons, specifically scalability. Not every technology can easily meet the fcc's 100 by 20 technology threshold. Meanwhile fiber-optic networks can greatly exceed these speed thresholds and are capable of meeting our needs into the foreseeable future.
▶ 0:29:57Mr. Watermeier: I want to point out the data centers are not using wireless or satellite technology to move data. They are using fiber. Second, supporting development. Fiber is the backbone for basically all the other technologies. We need fiber-based networks to support wireless, fixed wireless, and the cable networks. Third, reliability. Buried fiber is much less susceptible to weather hazards and natural disasters.
▶ 0:30:23Mr. Watermeier: Fires, tornadoes, and ice storms in recent years in nebraska have shown the need for resiliency that fiber can provide. Developing broadband infrastructure will not be enough of these networks are not maintained. We have heard from industry providers that although the investment and fiber has held for the last 40 years, the security required in fiber must be upgraded more frequently to accommodate changing technology.
▶ 0:30:46Mr. Watermeier: This is to be expected as demands on the network for download and upload speeds are greatly -- and latency demands continue to grow. The task that ai is capable of today will be eclipsed and what it can do five years from now, so long as the network is upgraded to keep it up. For that reason, I want to emphasize that new buildout must be as future-proof as possible in the face of developing technology.
▶ 0:31:11Mr. Watermeier: Chair fischer, members of this committee, I know you recognize the importance of racket -- of maintaining broadband networks. Hopefully it's clear that ai technology is dependent on those networks. I think it's important to recognize that many of these networks are supported through federal and state universal service funds. Nebraskans I represent are grateful for the work in the work of your colleagues on the usf working group. I look forward to hearing the group's recommendations for the future of usf. I know there is a discussion on how federal usf is funded.
▶ 0:31:42Mr. Watermeier: I want to point out that ai creates and will create significant demand on the network, network that is supported today on surcharges on voice only. Thank you for the chance to speak and I will answer questions at the end if I can.
▶ 0:31:56Chair Fischer: Mr. everson, you are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:32:01Mr. Everson: Chairman fisher, raking member lujan, chairman cruz, ranking member cantwell, distinguished senators, thank you for the invitation to testify. My name is bob everson. For 30 years at cisco I worked on the system's powering our networks and I've never seen a shift is consequential. Artificial intelligence isn't just another application. It's driving a new connectivity fabric that will help to find U.S. economic strength and national security for decades.
▶ 0:32:31Mr. Everson: Today I will focus on how ai is transforming our networks and how cisco is using ai to improve them. First, ai is changing not only the volume of network traffic but the behavior. Cisco measured a fourfold increase in a inference traffic over eight months. Networks have traditionally been optimized for content flowing downstream. Ai is far more two-light and uplink intensive.
▶ 0:33:03Mr. Everson: Prompts, context, all travel to the ai models and the connections are active longer than conventional web transactions. The ai agents will amplify these effects by operating a software speed. In our testing, an agent generated 450 percent more traffic than a person performing the same task. Roughly 70% of that additional traffic was in france.
▶ 0:33:25Mr. Everson: Meeting these demands requires more balanced network designs, greater upstream capacity, resilient paths with invisibility, stronger security, and quality of service that can be tailored to a high traffic. As models become faster, the locations for computing occurs from centralized clouds to the edge, will increasingly affect performance, cost, and data governance. A network this vast and distributed cannot be operated solely at human pace.
▶ 0:33:52Mr. Everson: Through agent tech ops cisco uses ai to support self-healing operations. Identifying faults, rerouting traffic, and recovering at machine speed. Our deep network models can distinguish legitimate ai traffic from anomalies, help predict and isolate threats, identify vulnerabilities, and guide operators in deploying patches. The ai native mobile networks can you spectrum and infrastructure more efficiently, adapt in real time, and enable new services.
▶ 0:34:21Mr. Everson: For service providers, this can turn the network into a platform for growth. Opening new revenue streams beyond connectivity through services like inference optimization, age ai, trusted ai services, and industry-specific solutions. One noteworthy example is integrated sensing and communication which allows ai to combine radio signals with the vision and other inputs as wireless networks can connect to devices while also detecting objects and movement.
▶ 0:34:48Mr. Everson: So supported applications such as a safer robotics, more efficient buildings, in fact -- enhanced public safety, even t enhanced public safety, even health care. Use ai to improve operations and enable ai-native applications and services. Strengthening economic competitiveness and national security.
▶ 0:35:10Mr. Everson: I commend nti for the call the action which advances the international cooperation needed to ensure trusted partners shape the future. To sustain U.S. leadership I offer three policy priorities. First, accelerate the U.S. ai native stack. Cisco is investing across multiple dimensions of ai native networking, bringing new capabilities to fight today while building the foundation for six g.
▶ 0:35:40Mr. Everson: One commitment is ai win, a collaboration between cisco, t-mobile, and others, which brings ai, compute, networking, wireless together to create a secure american-light path from 5g advanced ai-native six g. I would encourage congress to lean in on american strengths these areas.
▶ 0:36:18Mr. Everson: Modernize permitting and infrastructure. Permitting must enable rapid and responsible deployment. As this committee considers the future of the universal service fund it should account for the evolving causes of ai have been ready networks so rural and urban communities can share in the benefits. Third, maintain a balanced spectrum policy. The 800 megahertz made available by congress is essential to high-capacity, high uplink connectivity. The fcc operation of the six gigahertz band is equally important to meeting enterprise demand. A dependable pipeline of both is foundational to american leadership and I thank you for your efforts to rebuild them. Cisco stands ready to work with this committee to ensure the U.S.
▶ 0:36:47Mr. Everson: Remains the world's premier destination for ai and wireless innovation. Thank you for the opportunity to testify and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:36:56Chair Fischer: Thank you, Mr. everson. Mr. ramzanali, you are recognized for five minutes.
▶ 0:37:02Mr. Ramzanali: Chairwoman fischer, ranking member lujan, members of the subcommittee, thank you. My name is asad ramzanali and I'm the director of ai and technology policy at the vanderbilt policy accelerator. Ai and telecommunications are deeply intertwined. Fiber networks are how data moves in and out of ai data centers. And for americans to benefit from ai, every american must have access to that system.
▶ 0:37:31Mr. Ramzanali: We must reprioritize deploying high-speed, reliable, and symmetrical networks that reach every home in this country. Because I agree with much of what my co-panelists have said I won't repeat them. Instead, I will focus -- I will start with one specific threat ai poses to our telecommunications systems, cyber security. Well before ai, our telecommunications networks were vulnerable. A couple of years ago the chinese hacking group salt typhoon breached at least eight U.S.
▶ 0:38:00Mr. Ramzanali: Telecommunications providers and was able to intercept calls and text messages from high profile targets, including presidential candidates. One investigation called our systems "a house full of open windows." but salt typhoon did it the old way, the low tech pre-ai way. In the last year ai has started strengthening cyber attackers' methods.
▶ 0:38:23Mr. Ramzanali: We've seen several ai-enabled cyber attacks, including at least one that ration other countries telecommunications systems. As ai-enabled cyber threats started expanding come, the fcc went to the other way. They rescinded the cybersecurity rules that were put in place after salt typhoon. That is the opposite of what we need to be doing. Now we have even more reason for concern.
▶ 0:38:47Mr. Ramzanali: Last week an open ai model and testing bypassed its constraints and hacked the ai platform hugging face. I recommend the reactions. First require telecommunications providers to secure their networks and a similar requirement should be put into place for all critical infrastructure operators. Second, mandate pre-deployment testing of leading ai models. Testing should cover closed and open weight systems alike.
▶ 0:39:18Mr. Ramzanali: The medications to reduce the identified risks will differ. This should not become a ban on open weight models. Open weight models are critical for competition, research, and cybersecurity. Third, this committee should open an investigation into the open ai/hugging face incident. I will now use the remainder of my time to talk about how america's history with the telecommunications, almost two centuries of history, can help inform the ai governance debates of today.
▶ 0:39:46Mr. Ramzanali: Since the telegraph, communications providers have been required to treat similar customers alike. That's the principle of nondiscrimination. As an example, consider the fcc barred at&t from blocking third-party equipment on its network. That open the door to early innovations, like the answering machine, the fax machine, even the modem that gave us the internet. Ai models -- ai model providers are now gatekeepers in their own right and they have their own conflicts of interest. One example.
▶ 0:40:16Mr. Ramzanali: Last summer as claude cody started becoming popular, anthropic cut off model access to an independent ai start called windsurf that also did ai coding. Anthropic was windsurf' critical supplier and it became its competitor. It picks winners and losers instead of marcus deciding outcomes. Two, shared infrastructure, shared jurisdiction. Telecommunications has always been governed by federal, state, and local government together.
▶ 0:40:49Mr. Ramzanali: Today's buildout has no coherent government strategy at all and it is provoking real backlash across the country. Dozens of shelved projects, hundreds of protists, and hundreds of thousands of signatures just this year. With few policy levers at their disposal many have turned to moratoriums.
▶ 0:41:11Mr. Ramzanali: Instead of states subsidizing data center construction, congress can establish a resume or local governments can charge a franchise fee so that they can compete for benefits and they retain the right to say no. Finally, telecommunications is also instructive in the form of overspending on infrastructure that leads to bubbles. Today, trillions of dollars of investment are taped -- are chasing tens of billions of dollars of ai revenue.
▶ 0:41:35Mr. Ramzanali: This is more than the country has spent as a relative share of gdp than on the manhattan project, the apollo program, the electricity buildout, or the interstate highway system. The financing mechanisms involved are also troubling. There is circular financing, which happened during the.com bubble. Private credit, which jamie diamond warned is full of cockroaches. Vehicles that enron famously used. An asset-backed securities we all learned about in 2008.
▶ 0:42:06Mr. Ramzanali: This committee investigated the financial that enabled the.com bubble but after the bubble burst. In this instance we can start those investigations now. There are myriad other things to discuss in the ai debate. I try to focus on the infrastructure aspects of it. I thank you for holding this hearing and I look forward to your questions.
▶ 0:42:28Chair Fischer: Thank you, sir. I would like to recognize and enter lujan for his questions at this time. He is bouncing back and forth with different obligations this morning. So senator lujan, you are recognized.
▶ 0:42:37Sen. Lujan: Madam chair, thank you so much. To all our panelists, thank you for being here and to everyone tuning in. I will start with a simple yes or no. Can ai be transformative for the people of america if they do not have access to broadband networks?
▶ 0:42:54Mr. Spalter: No.
▶ 0:42:56Mr. Watermeier: No.
▶ 0:42:57Mr. Everson: No.
▶ 0:42:59Mr. Ramzanali: No.
▶ 0:43:01Sen. Lujan: The 42 .5 funding beta funding appropriated by congress has been called a once-in-a-lifetime investment in connectivity and reliable high-speed access across the country, yet the administration has altered policies in a way that steer investments away from fiber buildout.
▶ 0:43:20Sen. Lujan: And in doing so have injected significant delays into the process, denying states and territories the full amount of money appropriated for bead, goes against the goal of collecting 100% of americans across america. Mr. spalter, can you explain how the bead restructuring notice impacted your member companies that what that means for our ability to support ai applications at scale?
▶ 0:43:45Mr. Spalter: It has made us all focus our minds on additional levers we have is an industry to accelerate our ability to not only built but invest in expanding fiber connectivity to where it's needed most, and particularly to the unserved and underserved who stand to benefit from a high connectivity.
▶ 0:44:08Mr. Spalter: That is why dutiful to the rules that have been established and working closely with state broadband offices, we are imploring congress and other parts of the government to accelerate our ability to build through things like permitting reform.
▶ 0:44:21Sen. Lujan: What good is permitting reform if the money is taken away from you? What good is the money for your companies if permitting reform is passed if the administration takes the money from you? You can get everything out of the way, but if you don't have any money, what does it matter?
▶ 0:44:37Mr. Spalter: Our core focus as an industry is to do whatever we can to build fiber connectivity as far as possible. We do so mightily through private investment and public partnerships as much as we possibly can.
▶ 0:44:51Sen. Lujan: Let me ask you this way. If your member companies have full access to the $42 billion will they be able to build more fiber?
▶ 0:45:00Mr. Spalter: Obviously they would be able to.
▶ 0:45:05Mr. Watermeier: Deed was originally put in the nebraska public service commission it but there was a creation of the broadband office in nebraska. I understand what happened inside the world as far as the applications, after the first application many of our telecoms in the state of nebraska spent a good deal of money on engineering. It was turned back and had to reapply. They decided not to reapply.
▶ 0:45:30Mr. Watermeier: The long story short, in my opinion not the commission's opinion, but of dollars were spent there we could get it in faster hands as far as fiber.
▶ 0:45:39Sen. Lujan: I was a member of the commission in new mexico, also a farmer. I already like you, commissioner. Good learning from you as well. Mr. everson? Same question.
▶ 0:45:51Mr. Everson: As an engineer I am probably the least qualified to talk about this. I will say from our standpoint this is a once in a generation opportunity with the funding. Getting everyone connected is really an essential aspect.
▶ 0:46:05Sen. Lujan: Mr. ramzanali, network performance and resilience, we need to equally be rigorous around the security, which I appreciate your attention to investigations and the challenge and the congress. I'm in that space. I'm concerned there are many decisions that are being made moving towards a voluntary evaluation framework for these high-powered models given the security -- leaving our security on the goodwill of developers.
▶ 0:46:39Sen. Lujan: -- especially when public infrastructure is at risk based on the choices of a small number of powerful and influential developers?
▶ 0:46:45Mr. Ramzanali: You asked the perfect way. We shouldn't be dependent on the goodwill of private companies. We should be the ones deciding, the public, through the representatives at the agencies congress creates should be the ones deciding with the standards are, should be helping make sure that critical infrastructure providers are ready when sophisticated ai models are released. And we should be the ones deciding when all of that happens. Appreciate that.
▶ 0:47:08Sen. Lujan: Thank you for allowing me to ask questions first. I look forward to the rest of your responses and working with each and everyone of you. Thank you, madam chair.
▶ 0:47:19Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator lujan. Nebraska is home to dozens of growing industries that are increasingly reliant on ai in their day-to-day operations. That is from precision agriculture. Commissioner, you talked about manufacturing, logistics, freight, health care, financial services, public safety, and nebraska businesses and their customers are integrating more advanced technologies, like ai. They have to be resilient.
▶ 0:47:49Chair Fischer: You know, if we are looking at the applications, we want to make sure they are resilient. They have to be able to have that connectivity, which you talked about. Can you tell me how nebraska's communications infrastructure, commissioner, is ready for the complexity and volume of traffic that ai has introduced into the equation?
▶ 0:48:10Mr. Watermeier: I believe they are ready. They are working to improve and be ready for the expansion that will happen. To talk about the resiliency specifically, in nebraska we had an event with the wildfires and I spoke with several telecoms. Basically unaffected because they had pieces of the puzzle that were covered. When we had the floods and ice storms in 2020 we were covered. We lost very little infrastructure as far as that goes.
▶ 0:48:35Mr. Watermeier: I have a lot of confidence that the telecom specifically nebraska, and across the country, are ready for ai and they are anxious to do it but we have to worry about this last mile and the last customer.
▶ 0:48:47Chair Fischer: Do you think customers are going to have that connectivity? That they are going to need to compete in sectors like manufacturing and agriculture? We've heard it takes that fiber. What are we looking at here when you have the basics involved with ai and how that's going to be available?
▶ 0:49:11Mr. Watermeier: Infrastructure is not the same in the cities as in rural areas, the counties where you live. We have infrastructure there for manufacturing, which will be easier. We have the infrastructure for the first step of agriculture, someone's office or home. When they talk about going over the hill with an autonomous vehicle or to look at something specific -- on my farm I use a satellite and grown imagery to look at different things. It tells me quicker than I could be there.
▶ 0:49:41Mr. Watermeier: -- and drone energy to look at different things. It tells me quicker than I could be there. I think telecoms already but I will think we will have the connectivity for the last mile, the last animal, the last acre like we would like to have.
▶ 0:49:54Chair Fischer: Can you tell us how important the universal service fund and nebraska's universal service fund are to making sure that rural communities have that connectivity, so that they can participate in the ai economy today and into the future?
▶ 0:50:07Mr. Watermeier: It's critical. In nebraska, the universal service fund has what we consider to be partnered. We tried to match and fill gaps. Nebraska has reached -- my philosophy on everything that I've done in the legislature or commitment is all about infrastructure.
▶ 0:50:27Mr. Watermeier: I would like to spend a dollar but not just have it help or serve one individual but how it helps the overall infrastructure of the country, county, city, right now the entire world, really. That's the key for me when I think about building this infrastructure. It is not just going to help one individual. If we can do that we can actually help infrastructure.
▶ 0:50:47Chair Fischer: We all know infrastructure is an investment in the future of our communities and our country as well. Mr. spalter, many of your members utilize universal service fund as well. So I put that question to you. How important is the universal service fund to be able to have the connectivity to rural communities that need to, not just want to, need to participate in an ai-centric economy?
▶ 0:51:14Mr. Spalter: I would add they must participate in an ai-centric economy. One of the accelerators is a reformed, thoughtful, usf program that can keep pace with the changes we are seeing in our network and the needs of the communities it is designed to serve, which is why we are very grateful for your service as chair of the usf working group along with senator lujan.
▶ 0:51:45Mr. Spalter: We will do everything we can to support your work to ensure that every community can get the fiber infrastructure they need, maintain it, optimize it for the long haul so we can actually deliver ai's benefits to every community in the country.
▶ 0:51:56Chair Fischer: Thank you. Mr. everson, when someone picks up their phone they want to make a call or send a text, the person is usually not thinking about the nature of the network over which that data is being transmitted, unless the call drops or the text doesn't go through where the email gets stuck on the way. This is largely true for end users of ai as well.
▶ 0:52:24Chair Fischer: Residential and businesses care about the quality of the data and the outcome that they have. However, they likely don't care about the network. That allowed them to be able to use that ai model. Mr. everson, can you describe the need for complementary network technologies that are going to support an ai economy and, especially, the end-users for that ai?
▶ 0:52:49Mr. Everson: Absolutely. It's a great question. The way I like to think about it is exactly as you said it. The user doesn't want to have to care what network they are connected. They want access to that service regardless where they are.
▶ 0:53:03Mr. Everson: Whether they are on their wi-fi at home or wi-fi at their company -- whether they are out on the macro network using the cellular network, satellite services, or at home on the broadband connection it's all the same at that should be is central to our success.
▶ 0:53:23Chair Fischer: Senator klobuchar.
▶ 0:53:27Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you for being here today. I believe our laws need to keep up with the technology and be as sophisticated as the technology and have a coordinated approach. I've been frustrated we haven't been able to move forward on different fronts. Senator thune and I hope to have our bill completed over the august time period so we can have a mark up immediately when we come back to set some standards.
▶ 0:53:54Sen. Klobuchar: I know there are other ideas out there as well, because we just can't stand it down and not have coordinated rules in place when it comes to ai and when it comes to content with ai. I think this technology could bring us miraculous cures. I know mayo is using it now in some really good ways. In minnesota. But as david brooks once wrote, he doesn't know how to write about ai because he doesn't know if it will bring us to heaven or hell.
▶ 0:54:27Sen. Klobuchar: If we do nothing it will bring us to hell and we could be in much better shape if we put rules in place. We will start that with this committee, but I don't think we can keep waiting until the next election, the next election, and the next election. I'm going to start out just asking you, Mr.
▶ 0:54:43Sen. Klobuchar: Ramzanali, about what steps need to be taken within the federal government to strengthen our oversight of ai that presents high risk, including the risk of cyber attack. We've had a number of them that other states have had. We've had some water infrastructure that was attacked. I don't know if it was ai-related, by the way. Cyberattack.
▶ 0:55:10Mr. Ramzanali: I appreciate your long leadership on so many issues. To answer the near part, how do we think about cyber in those types of risks, to me there are two parts. You have to harden the critical infrastructure operators have come and you have to require plea -- require pre-deployment testing so the government and providers know the scope of the threat and can mitigate risks. Those two parts both have to happen.
▶ 0:55:36Sen. Klobuchar: Mr. everson, in order to protect the fast pace of cyber attacks, we likely need to use ai to respond just as fast. What steps should companies take to strengthen their own cyber security practices, including by using ai?
▶ 0:55:54Mr. Everson: Absolutely. Thank you, senator. There is no surprise that ai has accelerated the discovery of vulnerabilities and the access to those. What we are seeing is also an ability, using these models, if we look at things like project glasswing and they break, we were actually to identify with early access -- and daybreak, we were actually able to identify with early access.
▶ 0:56:24Mr. Everson: They were able to go through an unprecedented amount of code in five weeks time. There is balanced against the good guys really good tools to use. From our standpoint are basic recommendations to get to the point of your question. Number one is patch, install the patches. Number two is identify the products that are not patchable. There's a lot of tech that needs to be upgraded. Multi factor identification to limit people having access to the network.
▶ 0:56:51Mr. Everson: And a zero trust architecture, which doesn't just rely on a perimeter, but everything that happens in their requires authentication.
▶ 0:56:59Sen. Klobuchar: Mr. spalter, can you talk about the changes and updates our telecom of the structure needs to support what's coming at us with ai or what is already here?
▶ 0:57:12Mr. Spalter: I think that the fundamental physics of what the technologies that comprise fiber technology are already in place, which is the symmetrical capabilities at scale and at the speed at that low latency to be able to do the throughput that ai is going to be required to not only support the infrastructure but more importantly the human beings that will be needing it.
▶ 0:57:34Mr. Spalter: Which is why we need to deploy more fiber as broadly as possible, and why I will go back -- hopefully not as a broken record -- an essential need for permitting reform. I also say --
▶ 0:57:45Sen. Klobuchar: Can you explain at the state level, federal level? How do you see this going if you could wave a magic wand?
▶ 0:57:53Mr. Spalter: If I could wave a magic wand we would move now to pass the bills before congress that you are evaluating, not only for federal land where we can at least have shot clocks and be granted for previously authorized products but also expand at the state and local level, more efforts, some of which are being analyzed now by the fcc, to apply to wired broadband, therefore fiber broadband, the same types of
▶ 0:58:24Mr. Spalter: Approaches on state and local permitting that we've been successfully able to do in 2018 on wireless networks, which is one of the reasons we were able to scale 5g as quickly and take global leadership on it as quickly as possible.
▶ 0:58:37Sen. Klobuchar: One more question since it's for the witness from nebraska if you don't mind. Mr. watermeier, I know that we have a mutual friend in minnesota. You know, could you expand on what Mr. spalter was talking about at the local levels of what you think we should be doing to protect? There are some very small towns and small counties and small communications networks.
▶ 0:59:05Mr. Watermeier: You are exactly right. We have more than just one friend in, I'm sure in minnesota. Mr. spalter had a little bit of a point talking about how the state's role is. I don't want to suggest anything at the federal level but I have confidence in the stakeholders here today and those that are not to know what they need to do in the weeds. The states will have a role and they should have. Even our commission deals with all the utilities and we are talking about this thing all the time.
▶ 0:59:34Mr. Watermeier: Do they have -- have they generated enough revenue to cover their costs in cyber. The black sky event, are they ready, are we talking? There is a role in the states to do this and I hope we are not preempted completely at the federal level. That would be my answer.
▶ 0:59:50Sen. Klobuchar: Thank you.
▶ 0:59:51Chair Fischer: Thank you. Senator klobuchar has always been a strong leader and advocate for many of these issues and always for rural areas in the state. So thank you. Senator o, you are recognized.
▶ 1:00:03Sen. Capito: Thank you for being here. Mr. spalter, you are singing my song on permitting. I noticed in your statement you said the primary constraint on america's ai infrastructure isn't technological, it's governmental. Permitting is the single largest roadblock. Most people think of permitting reform in terms of energy development or possibly transportation systems.
▶ 1:00:31Sen. Capito: But the communications and ai systems are as important maybe in some cases as you are making the case today more important to be able to move quickly and swiftly. You probably know I am the chair of the environmental public works committee. We have been in active negotiations with the energy and natural resources committee at the committee chair and ranking member level for months now to try to get the some of the permitting issues that you talked about.
▶ 1:01:01Sen. Capito: You mentioned shot clocks, public land. Are there other things you think permitting reform would help in the industry to be able to build out quickly the infrastructure that's needed?
▶ 1:01:11Mr. Spalter: Yes, senator. I think there are several initiatives that we can actually move on very, very quickly. With respect to federal lands, if we can simply allow previously analyzed projects to be deemed granted so we can move swiftly to transit lands that are managed by the federal government, I think there is also going to be opportunities for us to, not only through legislation but the regulation,
▶ 1:01:43Mr. Spalter: As I mentioned before, to ensure state and local communities can have the tools and leverage they require to be able to speed up permitting for wired broadband infrastructure by applying the same approach that we've successfully been able to do on the wireless side through fcc regulation. But we can't stop there. We need to make sure that while we are actually speeding up permitting we are not taking the foot off the gas and supporting the networks we are finally able to deliver through a thoughtfully performed usf mechanism.
▶ 1:02:13Mr. Spalter: And we are so grateful for your work on that regard.
▶ 1:02:15Sen. Capito: Thank you. You know the bead funds are getting ready to come out. Some are out. It has taken way too long. We complain about that constantly in this committee and at home. There is not deployment funds, the funds that are not going to come out immediately because of the way this administration has reworked the program.
▶ 1:02:37Sen. Capito: I would go to my own home state of west virginia that has a lot of physical challenges in terms of being able to build out more expensive. So the actual deployment and permitting is more difficult for us in some ways. Senator wicker has had a bill that I am on on the non-deployment funds to allow those to come back to the states. The original funds we were supposed to get. Come back to each individual state.
▶ 1:03:03Sen. Capito: So we could use this for the left over bead money that would strengthen these ai networks, let that be a permissible use. Do you have an opinion on that? Mr. spalter?
▶ 1:03:14Mr. Spalter: Yes, we do. First of all, we all appreciate the work that you would senator wicker did to advance that bill. We think there is a need for speed to delivering guidance to the states on non-deployment funds and their uses. I know the states are waiting. We've heard from our colleagues that the guidance will be forthcoming in september.
▶ 1:03:35Mr. Spalter: We believe that any dollar should be accelerators of the bead program and we support this body's determination that fiber should be prioritized in the program.
▶ 1:03:49Mr. Spalter: Nevertheless we think those dollars can be used purposely for things like resiliency, cyber training, focusing on using dollars for accelerating permitting, and also for modernizing power infrastructure, all of which will be additive to turbocharging fiber deployments and also every other technology that will ride on them, including satellite.
▶ 1:04:15Sen. Capito: I think it fits nicely with the permitting reform effort as we see it moving. Mr. everson, do you have an opinion on that?
▶ 1:04:24Mr. Everson: On permitting?
▶ 1:04:26Sen. Capito: Permitting I would love to hear because I'm sure you are involved in that. Let's start with permitting and then non-deployment funds.
▶ 1:04:34Mr. Everson: Thank you, senator. On permitting a look at this from may be a simplistic perspective as an engineer. There are a lot of things that need to be done to build out the infrastructure that is required. The more that we can speed that permitting process along the better. Because then we can get to the work of deploying those resources. From a bead standpoint, I would say number one we need to make sure everyone is connected and can share in the good fortunes here. We want to see that.
▶ 1:05:03Mr. Everson: If there any funds left we would love to see that invested in the resiliency and security of these ai networks.
▶ 1:05:09Sen. Capito: Thank you all very much. I look forward to hopefully having that permitting reform bill across the line. Thank you.
▶ 1:05:18Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator capito. Senator rosen. You are recognized.
▶ 1:05:26Sen. Rosen: I want to thank you for holding this hearing. Witnesses, thank you for being here today. I want to talk about ai networks and fiber because we've heard from witnesses today about how important high-speed, low latency capability -- connectivity is for ai networks. Mr. spalter then Mr. ramzanali, what are the biggest barriers to our infrastructure meeting the moment on ai?
▶ 1:05:50Mr. Spalter: I can begin. Thank you for that question. I think the primary barrier that we have to accelerating the ai opportunity -- not just in terms of its scale and development at the researcher level, but as importantly its ability to actually have a positive impact on human beings and beyond -- human beings in nevada and beyond are the sluggish on permitting.
▶ 1:06:20Mr. Spalter: The question is not if we get the approvals, is the delay in time that it takes. There are many levers that you have that you pragmatically and thoughtfully accelerate the ability for us to get the permits that we need to build fiber broadband into your rural and other communities.
▶ 1:06:36Mr. Ramzanali: I will agree and add that when I look at it from the highest level perspective of the network, the failures are that it doesn't reach all the people in nevada and around the country. It needs to reach rural communities. It needs to reach low income communities. We need to make sure that the highest communications networks are available to everyone.
▶ 1:06:56Sen. Rosen: Thank you. I appreciate the shout out for nevada because we are the seventh largest state in the most mountainous in the lower 48 so getting out to those communities are important. I agree with my colleagues. We hear about the issues with permitting in nevada more than 87% of our state is federal land. 87%.
▶ 1:07:22Sen. Rosen: Under this administration we have unfortunately seen unprecedented cuts in staff to the federal agencies that approve the permits for telecom networks across federal land. Agencies are understaffed, under resourced, many don't have the technical resources to act more efficiently. Mr.
▶ 1:07:38Sen. Rosen: Spalter, with this environment in mind, will you continue to work with congress to support federal agencies and make the permitting process more efficient for projects with limited, if any, environmental impact like many telecom projects?
▶ 1:07:52Mr. Spalter: Absolutely. The number of horror stories we've heard about federal land permitting are incredible. It's almost like you can sit around a campfire with a flashlight under your face.
▶ 1:08:04Sen. Rosen: 87% of public land. Think about sluggish. It just stops us.
▶ 1:08:17Mr. Spalter: The good news is you have very solid legislation to advance more thoughtful, pragmatic, common sense permitting and there are efforts -- we are talking to the agencies -- about extending things like exclusions for previous projects. There is a fierce urgency now about getting it done.
▶ 1:08:32Sen. Rosen: I will talk a little bit now about network cybersecurity. Network intrusions, we know they are increasing. With increasing ai sophistication and use by, well, everyone, our networks are going to be more and more vulnerable to sophisticated cyber attacks. So what I really want to ask is to Mr.
▶ 1:08:57Sen. Rosen: Ramzanali, how do we avoid a comprehensive, undetected cyber attack across our networks, like what we saw with salt typhoon?
▶ 1:09:03Mr. Ramzanali: A great question. Salt typhoon was pre-ai, low tech using stolen passwords and equipment that wasn't updated. The way to think about this is as I said earlier, two sides of the coin. We have to harden our infrastructure. Cyber defenses need to go up which means enabling critical infrastructure operators to use ai for their defense but it means pre-deployment on ai model so we know with the threats coming look like.
▶ 1:09:30Sen. Rosen: Thank you. Would you agree that we need to really be staffing up and strengthening our cyber security infrastructure security agency that protects -- helps to protect that public-private critical infrastructure?
▶ 1:09:43Mr. Ramzanali: I completely agree. Without a fully stocked government without agencies like the cyber safety review board and sisa, many parts of government need to be strengthened and given the capacity to deal with today's moments.
▶ 1:09:57Sen. Rosen: I appreciate that. I want to ask one last question to Mr. spalter. What can congress do to help ensure the lack of network capacity doesn't widen the digital divide as ai tools become more integrated into daily life? We are seeing it every day. What suggestions do you have for us?
▶ 1:10:15Mr. Spalter: Three. One is to make sure that we move forward on thoughtful, swift permitting reform. Second is to use the usf working group process to ensure the future networks that are going to be required to meet the moment at a high capacity -- that ai capacity will require will be thoughtfully worked through.
▶ 1:10:37Mr. Spalter: And the third is another piece of sisa, to secure our networks by making sure you can reauthorize it in 2015 so we can talk to each other and government to ensure the networks we will be deploying to the communities can be as secure as possible.
▶ 1:10:58Sen. Rosen: I appreciate that. I yield back.
▶ 1:11:00Chair Fischer: Thank you. We have been joined by the chair of the committee, senator cruz. You are recognized. Chair cruz thank you, madam chair. We are in a strategic competition with china to lead the world on ai. Winning that race requires massive capital investment to build the networks that will power tomorrow's ai applications. When we talk about permitting it is often on the energy or resources consumption fronts.
▶ 1:11:27Chair Fischer: But building out the networks to connect new ai infrastructure faces many of the same hurdles. Mr. spalter, first of all, happy birthday. I understand today is your birthday.
▶ 1:11:37Mr. Spalter: Thank you very much.
▶ 1:11:42Chair Cruz: So we held a giant hearing for you in celebration. For your members, to what extent are outdated, slow, duplicative requirements at local level slowing broadband deployment and how many years on average does fiber construction take to reach a given rural or remote location and what percentage of those delays are due specifically to permitting?
▶ 1:12:10Mr. Spalter: It is the single bt pebble in the shoe. Fiber networks can only be billed at scale at speed if we can legally give attention to permitting reform. We can deploy networks weeks, sometimes in days. We are equipped and have the capital and will to do so.
▶ 1:12:34Mr. Spalter: The challenge is we are seeing in many instances we are having to sit and wait for months, sometimes years. In big bend, a member has to wait two years to get a permit from one of our federal land agencies over a debate about whether there was a forest in the chihuahua desert. This is illustrative of the challenges we are facing a scale, which is why the legislation you are considering is so vitally important.
▶ 1:13:04Sen. Cruz: Thank you. I can verify firsthand there is no forest there. Mr. spalter, in addition to new bills your members are investing heavily in upgrading their existing networks to keep pace with growing data traffic. Our permitting delay slowing those upgrade projects as much as new construction or are these bottlenecks different from what you see? With
▶ 1:13:32Mr. Spalter: Delays are an equal opportunity to enter. For new projects and for upgrades were simple projects that will require simply replacing literally a strand of fiber can sometimes be delayed for months.
▶ 1:13:50Mr. Spalter: We have seen that in states like utah where we could easily establish new approaches like categorical exemptions for broadband, stepping forward to allow previously analyzed projects and previously permitted to proceed on a deemed grant basis. These are simple, practical, progressive solutions that actually can allow us to move forward as a nation and not allow the chinese to get out in front.
▶ 1:14:18Sen. Cruz: I hope your words prove prescient. I hope they foreshadow bipartisan agreement to get this done. Let's shift. Mr. everson, beyond network efficiency and resilience how are cisco's ai-driven network technologies helping carrier customers differentiate their service offerings in a competitive market place?
▶ 1:14:44Sen. Cruz: Are you seeing ai create new service offerings rather than just providing faster or more resilient networks?
▶ 1:14:55Mr. Everson: This is one of the exciting things about this. As ai shift from primarily training dominant to more inference dominant there's a huge opportunity to play an important role besides just caring the bits. The token generation side of things. One exciting thing with at&t in our home state initially is rebuilt up the ai grade.
▶ 1:15:21Mr. Everson: They are serving ai capabilities, ai models and ai outcomes to enterprise customers. Low latency, high secure services and allows them to move up the staff to deliver value.
▶ 1:15:35Sen. Cruz: What does this mean for economic growth and jobs?
▶ 1:15:42Mr. Everson: It's fantastic story for that. They are able to move up the value chain and deliver more value to their customers. It makes the employees more efficient, more reflective with these ai models.
▶ 1:15:55Sen. Cruz: Ai workloads and use cases range widely. Optimizing networks to powering machinery on factory floors to enabling real-time diagnostics at rural hospitals. Each demands something different from the network. There is no question that fiber is a wonderful technology under ideal circumstances.
▶ 1:16:19Sen. Cruz: But given how long billed us would take in a nationwide scale, putting all of our eggs in that basket would leave many innovative network use cases, not to mention entire regions of americans relying on them waiting for years until shovels broke ground. Mr.
▶ 1:16:35Sen. Cruz: Everson, can you speak about how embracing the full toolkit of technologies today, fiber, satellite and others will enable greater connectivity and access to ai across all america, not just data center helps in on a faster timeline than a fiber only approach?
▶ 1:16:58Mr. Everson: I could not agree more. I mentioned earlier the user should not have to care where they are connected or how they are connected. They should get the same level of service. That requires a fabric of cellular connectivity, wi-fi connectivity, fiber connectivity, satellite. They all need to work the same.
▶ 1:17:15Sen. Cruz: Final question. Cisco has visibility and a network traffic pattern across the industry. Based on what you are seeing, is the it megahertz spectrum pipeline and the working families tax cut sufficient to meet the U.S. carriers' six g capacity needs.
▶ 1:17:36Mr. Everson: Thank you to everyone for the 800 megahertz. That's enormous and a global imperative and obviously a domestic imperative. It is a great start and a significant chunk and merits further evaluation.
▶ 1:17:53Sen. Cruz: Thank you.
▶ 1:17:54Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator cruz. Senator blunt rochester, your recognize.
▶ 1:18:03Sen. Blunt Rochester: Mr. everson, ai applications are becoming more integrated into everyday life, from education and health care to businesses and manufacturing. As they do, americans will increasingly depend on broadband networks capable of handling the demand.
▶ 1:18:26Sen. Blunt Rochester: Cisco has rejected ai and agenda gay I will drive consumer network traffic -- by jen takei I will drive consumer network up by six times by 2035. 64% more growth than we would see without ai. What investments or network upgrades will be necessary to ensure broadband networks can keep pace with the ai driven demand?
▶ 1:18:51Mr. Everson: Thank you, senator. The capacity is one story. You demonstrated that well. We need to keep upgrading and enhancing the fiber capacity, cellular never capacity. We need to account for the different traffic patterns. While we are reengineering those, the traffic pattern is shifting to wear primarily we are consuming content on our phone or at home or whatever.
▶ 1:19:21Mr. Everson: As that context has to go to the cloud we need more lanes going upstream as well.
▶ 1:19:25Sen. Blunt Rochester: Mr. spalter, you have written that only fiber offers the security -- security -- I would love for you to expand a little more on that for the record and talk about what policymakers should keep in mind as we are looking at the long-term trade-offs between fiber and other broadband technologies as we increase ai-driven economy.
▶ 1:19:57Mr. Spalter: Thank you for that question, senator. Ai related traffic will be increased demands across every layer of our communications system. Not just fiber, but also wi-fi, satellite, mobile and beyond.
▶ 1:20:18Mr. Spalter: What is essential as we think about powering the pump on allowing greater capacity across our communications system is it will always be fiber that will become the backbone for every other technology to transit or higher capacity. Traffic that ai will require.
▶ 1:20:38Mr. Spalter: This means that while we have to create incentives or evolution of all technologies, we must do more for things like usf reform permitting to get more fiber as extensively as possible so it can support every technology that has applicable uses.
▶ 1:20:57Sen. Blunt Rochester: Mr. watermeier, -- the rewriting of the rules did not just open the door to satellite is a lower cost alternative to fiber but it also deems some homes and businesses already connected, excluding them from funding eligibility altogether. President biden allotted enough beat funding to reach nearly 6000 homes with higher speed internet and fully connect delaware.
▶ 1:21:30Sen. Blunt Rochester: Our state would have been fully connected. If I can ask you, the trump administration has cut that funding by about 74%. This disproportionally impacts rural communities like those in sussex county in delaware. Looking ahead, how will lack of access to reliable high-speed internet impact delaware internet impact delawarians' ability to participate in the economy?
▶ 1:22:01Sen. Blunt Rochester: >> thank you for the question. If we don't connect those thousands of homes, they are missing out on the economic benefits of not just ai but access to the internet. It means when the kids have homework assignments, they don't have access. When telehealth visits or asking questions of various tools, they don't have access. These are real-world limitations being put on thousands of people in delaware and around the country.
▶ 1:22:30Sen. Blunt Rochester: We should not accept the state of the country were not every american is connected to high-quality networks.
▶ 1:22:36Sen. Blunt Rochester: I can tell you when folks make decisions about what is eligible and what is not, if you are just driving through one of our counties, you can already predict where your call is going to drop, where you will not have access to service. This is the. Cost of doing business this is the cost of our health care. This is the cost of connecting to our neighbors. For me, making sure we are all connected is a priority.
▶ 1:23:07Sen. Blunt Rochester: I think you and the panel and I yield back.
▶ 1:23:09Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator. Senator young.
▶ 1:23:15Sen. Young: Mr. spalter and others, welcome. We will cover a lot of ground here. Indiana just landed a quantum tech hub under the chips and science act in our state is poised to play a critical role in the nation's quantum corridor with significant investments in both quantum computing and artificial intelligence.
▶ 1:23:39Sen. Young: How important is robust fiber infrastructure to support not only ai but also next-generation quantum technologies and what does that mean for america's global competitiveness?
▶ 1:23:50Mr. Spalter: It is not just indispensable, it is existential to the importance of the quantum corridor and her ability to scale the next generation quantum networks in such a way with speed that we can actually outpace are very well funded and determined to including the chinese. We just yesterday had a webinar with the director of the white house quantum coordination office.
▶ 1:24:16Mr. Spalter: We exploit exactly what are going to be the policy leaders that can accelerate our ability as a nation to win, including indiana. That will be about prioritizing more fiber buildout and policy mechanisms that can incentivize it. We are eager to work with you on passing various bills before the committee to get that done.
▶ 1:24:38Sen. Young: I'm so glad you checked permitting reform there as well. I will say I think we are very close in terms of bipartisan coalition. It needs an notes from the powers that be to get it across the line, maybe make some printable accommodations but I think we are close to enabling the golden age the president talks about.
▶ 1:25:04Sen. Young: Long-haul fiber networks use facilities called fiber huts to keep signals strong over long distances. These facilities are often left out of our conversations related to communications infrastructure. Because fiber huts are in many states and local communities, different rules for permits and construction can slow down new projects and broadband deployment. How do different state and local rules affect the building of these facilities?
▶ 1:25:35Sen. Young: What can congress do to make the process faster and more consistent?
▶ 1:25:38Mr. Spalter: We are going to see increasing innovation as to how we can accelerate fiber-optic networks and optimize them, including fiber huts. Often times these can be as small as eight by six feet placed in a rural area.
▶ 1:25:57Mr. Spalter: Yet many times state and local rules will treat that tiny fiber hut in the same way they might a significant large advanced manufacturing facility in terms of permitting processes. If we can move forward swiftly to pass legislation, it might close the gap -- like close the gap act and ask every committee considering permitting reform to include broadband in its consideration we will be able to actually get the work done.
▶ 1:26:27Sen. Young: Two groups of questions, two minutes left. Cybersecurity and the risk, perhaps increasing risk bad actors with access to sophisticated advanced frontier ai models will utilize them for nefarious purposes, including to initiate cyber or ransomware attacks.
▶ 1:26:50Sen. Young: How important is the ability for government and the private sector, including broadband providers, to share cyber threat information in real time?
▶ 1:26:59Mr. Spalter: The clock is ticking, sir. We are currently authorized through agentic 20 -- through cisa 2015 through september 30. It needs to be reauthorized for the long haul given the sophisticated and advanced threats we are facing. Without that ability embedded in cisa 2015, we will have not just one hand tied behind our backs but two.
▶ 1:27:27Sen. Young: You anticipated my last question talking about the expiration of cisa 2015. I will give you and the remaining 45 seconds an opportunity to unpack a little bit more if you can how expiration within -- would impact mitigation and response capabilities.
▶ 1:27:48Mr. Spalter: I'm sorry?
▶ 1:27:50Sen. Young: How expiration of cisa would mitigate our capabilities. We you just adjusting yourself in the chair? >> one think I will say -- I'm not the best personal policy but your point about threat intelligence is one of the number one priorities we have.
▶ 1:28:15Sen. Young: At cisco, one of strengths that we have an enormous threat intelligence organization. >> one of the reasons we need to keep pace with ai innovation and not slow down is because it is the very ai tools and models, both frontier and open weight that are becoming part of our defense mechanisms.
▶ 1:28:40Sen. Young: We need to be able to advance them in order to be able to protect our neighbor -- our networks against very well-equipped and very well-financed, resolved adversaries.
▶ 1:28:54Sen. Young: Proving once again these are national security issues. I keep saying this committee is a national security committee. When I'm working on merchant shipping, department of commerce, is a national security issue. I national security issue. This is not about creating jobs, the happy byproduct of a national security play. Thank you, chair.
▶ 1:29:15Chair Fischer: We have been joined by the ranking member booker of the committee, senator cantwell. Will recognize.
▶ 1:29:22Sen. Cantwell: Thank you to you and ranking member lujan for holding this important hearing. And you're committed -- and your focus on his important communication issues. I want to thank my colleague from indiana who just spoke about how this is a national security issue. He and I worked on the first federal rule for our government and ai policy and got that implemented. Every day I am thankful that we got that started.
▶ 1:29:52Sen. Cantwell: Now I think it's probably six years ago. Anyway, we are here today and continue to see a fast moving environment. What are we going to do to step up to that both from the security point of view and from a competitive point of view? Artificial intelligence, we saw last week with the disclosure of an unprecedented security incident, an advanced model broke out of the sandbox and created a complex cyberattack against hugging face.
▶ 1:30:21Sen. Cantwell: Ai can design viruses, toxins, biological weapons, entirely new pathogens that are difficult to detect and counter. Today's hearing is at an important moment as ai accelerates new capabilities that are being unlocked every day. We still need to compete. Mr.
▶ 1:30:44Sen. Cantwell: Ramzanali, you brought this up in your testimony, making it clear that we needed to have regulation, not self certification but some regime. It might often need us to look into this from an international perspective. We are not just regulating this technology for what might happen in united states but what maligned actors might do with this technology as well.
▶ 1:31:17Sen. Cantwell: What do you think we need to do to make sure we get this right, particularly -- I think this committee knows a lot about cybersecurity. I have been on the committee and we've had many hearings about cybersecurity. I would not say we necessarily -- it's a whole of government response with different agencies and we continue to see attacks on the private sector, telecom sector, ill prepared to respond. We also saw in our pipeline system.
▶ 1:31:49Sen. Cantwell: That makes that look like child's play. This makes that look like child's play. Could you elaborate on what you think we need to do to address issues like the biological threats where ai could provide a step-by-step instruction for engineering of novel resistant super charged superbugs? They could just go off and do that.
▶ 1:32:13Sen. Cantwell: The advanced ai models to be really key in solving some very important programs but also could be used for uranium enrichment and balm trigger designs. If that gives people on an international basis access to more information and proliferation, what do we do about that. And on this cybersecurity model, again from a big software state.
▶ 1:32:44Sen. Cantwell: The software can be buggy. And we are talking about software that writes itself. The tax systems, creates big holes. It is like it is a chemical itself and the damage it could be doing within our cybersecurity network for safety. We would not even know about it. That is a lot. We invited you here because we thought you could help us with this. What are the things we need to put in place?
▶ 1:33:14Mr. Ramzanali: I appreciate you highlighting that. I think about this in a few different ways. All the critical infrastructure systems we have today need to be hardened. Redeployment testing can help us become aware of the types of threats that are coming. This is the role of government. Government has biologist and nuclear weapons experts and the national labs we employ have this kind of experts. We should be deploying all of them to help with the threat landscape looks like.
▶ 1:33:44Mr. Ramzanali: Each one of those threats you described has its own supply chain and ecosystem. We need to look at it from a systems place. Looking at every part of that and I'm worried were not looking at it as much as we can.
▶ 1:34:16Mr. Ramzanali: The last administration and to its credit this administration have made progress on these questions. We have to do way more. You are exactly right to say the landscape is changing and we are still moving incrementally.
▶ 1:34:28Sen. Cantwell: Should not be fearful about these national security organizations within our government being involved in trying to get this right and protect us, is that correct? Some are proposing there is a self certification model and we just have to go fast. I think what we have to go fast on is all of us coming together on what are the right security layers to protect our citizens and our nation and advance our competitiveness.
▶ 1:34:57Sen. Cantwell: That often does take some of the smartest people within our federal government, particularly when you're dealing with some of these biological and nuclear weapons.
▶ 1:35:06Mr. Ramzanali: The scale of the problem we are talking about relating to safety and security is not commensurate with the self certification voluntary regime. We don't put up with massive safety national security concerns with paperwork being the response and any other domain.
▶ 1:35:22Sen. Cantwell: Cat has not worked out in aviation, I can tell you that. We are just advancing too fast if you ask me, even in aviation. You have to have -- if you're trying to understand the interaction between hardware and software.
▶ 1:35:39Sen. Cantwell: In this case what has not been amplified is how dangerous the cyberattack universe is in and of itself and how promulgating -- I'm not sure that's the right word but promulgating of the attack that ai could be -- it could be quite significant on its own going through a system.
▶ 1:36:00Mr. Ramzanali: It would be incredibly disruptive if we have to consistently worry about ai -based cyber attacks disrupting banks, hospitals and telecommunications systems. That is happening is a regular part of my life. We should not accept that future and try to avoid a future those attacks become commonplace.
▶ 1:36:18Sen. Cantwell: I don't think we have quite got the cyber regime correct. Yet today we are still seeing attacks on a lot of personal information and I think we want to work with the telecom industry to make sure they are making investments that keep us going. I'm over time. May I go on one more?
▶ 1:36:41Sen. Cantwell: How do you suggest -- what areas do you suggest we engage on an international basis to get an international regime? What areas do you suggest?
▶ 1:36:52Mr. Ramzanali: The international part is the hardest. There will be diverging interests we have to figure out. One of the oldest existing international organizations we, have is the itu which started as the international telegraph union. We needed to come together to figure out a system that works for a technology that does not respect orders -- borders. The threats are much bigger than the issues that player much larger. We have to figure something out.
▶ 1:37:21Mr. Ramzanali: There was a lot of work done in the last administration and this administration is doing a lot. All that feels insufficient. We need to rethink how we approach this and start from what are everybody's interests, and I believe there's an interest in safety and security.
▶ 1:37:37Sen. Cantwell: I agree but we have to think about some of these nonproliferation regimes that existed and how they function and what we have to do here as well. I look forward to more questions. Thank you for this important hearing. I appreciate it.
▶ 1:37:53Chair Fischer: Senator lujan and I will ask a couple more questions before we close the hearing. Artificial intelligence has presented new array of challenges and opportunities for networks. One challenge is the change in the profile of network traffic that ai has prompted. Ai is not just a new source of network demand.
▶ 1:38:18Chair Fischer: It's also a new type of network demand that is diffusing throughout our networks here in this country. Mr. everson, could you describe how and why ai is not just adding demand to networks but also changing the traffic profile, the traffic patterns networks are seeing?
▶ 1:38:40Mr. Everson: That's a great question I would love to expound upon. With ai, traditional networks were designed really for serving downstream largely. There is a symmetrical nature to it but the predominant traffic is downstream. When you are using ai, part of the value is what you feed the model to give you a good answer back. It is called context.
▶ 1:39:07Mr. Everson: Whether it is videos, photos, sensor data, may be a bunch of texts you need to feed up. They goes back and forth. In the agentic world, the agent may go back and forth multiple times to seek from different sources. It is changing the traffic pattern with more upstream. You have to send more up to the model wherever it is, whether it is in a central location.
▶ 1:39:33Mr. Everson: It is changing the persistence and the length of time the transactions and that traffic patterns substantially.
▶ 1:39:39Chair Fischer: How are networks adapting to accommodate those changes? When you look at the different patterns, the new type of traffic that's out there, how was it working? Is it working well? Are you having issues with it? Where are you ill-equipped may be at this point in time to handle all that?
▶ 1:40:08Mr. Everson: The good news is we are in the early days of inference. The bad news is it has grown quickly. There are different mechanisms. We talked about bandwidth and the need for fiber and the need for spectrum and licensed spectrum to allow for more uplinks.
▶ 1:40:29Mr. Everson: There are mechanisms the operators can put inside their networks to help sort of offload or diminish traffic requirements where they can be involved in the inferencing chain, serving tokens, maybe with intelligent direction of requests to different models. Maybe by hosting that insider networks. We have multiple tools of the toolkit we are working through. I think they will all be required.
▶ 1:40:54Chair Fischer: Commissioner, what opportunities do you see for ai to improve emergency communications while making sure our dispatchers remain at the center of the critical decisions that are going to be made when we have to have an emergency response? You talked about the wildfires in nebraska and the bomb cyclone, the flooding. A lot of weather events emergency responders go through.
▶ 1:41:28Mr. Watermeier: Thank you for the question. Nebraska does administer the underlying network of 911 and we are concerned at the is or converting everything over the next gen. Ai will help in every capacity. It will help the training process. It will help the decision-making and the tremendous amount of data we are collecting when we switch to next generation will be -- ai will play a big part of that. Thank you for the question. Sen.
▶ 1:41:53Mr. Watermeier: Luján: I went to pick up where chair fischer was asking questions about traffic. As everyone highlighted today networks are built for traffic nominally to come down and not go up with ai. I appreciate your response to chair fischer about existing technologies. Those are band-aids.
▶ 1:42:24Mr. Watermeier: Traffic patterns are going to change dramatically. They already have. In the united states, networks are still being built predominately for download with very little up. In new mexico, I pay the company for a certain speed and I don't get them, which is also a problem in most parts of america. There are a bunch of crooks who should be held accountable. There should be penalty on companies that are not to living the speeds they are promising people. I have a bill for that.
▶ 1:42:55Mr. Watermeier: I have not introduced yet but it's coming. For all the companies in the room today that are listening, if you are stealing from people -- I'm trying to be better with my language -- stop it. If you know you're networks are going down and you are taking from people, refund them. Give the money back. The summit question. What are the applications if the U.S.
▶ 1:43:21Mr. Watermeier: Continues to build out networks that presently are built for download as opposed to the requirements we are seeing with the uptake of ai and others with the flow going up?
▶ 1:43:35Mr. Everson: Thank you, senator. Plain and simple, we have to change. We need to get more symmetrical in the network architecture. In the underlying infrastructure, the fiber access, the broadband, wireless. That is part of it. There are tools as we get into ai where it will make the network more efficient. We are to building agentic ops where the network can be more flexible and adaptable.
▶ 1:44:07Mr. Everson: If it does not have the underlying infrastructure, the underlying backbone, it doesn't work.
▶ 1:44:12Sen. Cantwell: Mr. spalter, my call he was asking questions pertaining to quantum. We also know as a result of faster speeds today that decreases the likelihood deepfakes, people out there doing bad things, preying on our loved ones or ourselves are able to do it at an increasing taste. Quantum networks are also promising more cybersecurity.
▶ 1:44:42Sen. Cantwell: Quantum security. As united states builds up ai driven network practice protocols, should quantum networking be part of the toolkit the united states has required to be built alongside it is a future consideration -- sorry, it is something we should be pushing to be implement it?
▶ 1:45:08Mr. Spalter: The answer is absolutely yes. We are envisioning the future network in the future needs the network will support, including the types of traffic patterns but also use cases that quantum will deliver. We need to begin the work now. Not just in terms of technology we are seeing in the labs and transferring to commercial uses, because other countries, particularly china is advancing those efforts as well.
▶ 1:45:32Mr. Spalter: But also in terms of our thoughtful ways of developing legislative and regulatory frameworks that will prime the pump on allowing us to deliver the promise of quantum so that on the long-term we can do things like usf reform and things like make sure we are prioritizing all incentives possible, including permit reform to get more fiber and its symmetrical speeds.
▶ 1:45:58Mr. Spalter: Particularly low latency measured in the single digits of milliseconds that fiber networks will be able to deliver for our quantum future. Sen. luján: Mr. everson, in one of your responses to the chairman of the committee you said something along the lines of people -- users may not be too concerned about how they are connected as long as they are connected to fast speeds. Should users be connected if they are connected?
▶ 1:46:26Mr. Everson: That's a loaded question.
▶ 1:46:31Sen. Cantwell: What I mean is if people are not connected, I think people should care about that. There are people across america today that don't have access to the internet. Some because there's no connection. There is no offering. Others because they can't afford it. I appreciate what I believe I have heard from everyone about their support for usf reform. I would collect usf modernization.
▶ 1:46:59Sen. Cantwell: With all the work and thoughtfulness that's gone into this space my question -- I have two closing questions. Do you believe usf modernization is needed and that the united states should adopt it and congress should act?
▶ 1:47:16Mr. Spalter: Absolutely, yes. We appreciate the work you are doing and you, senator fischer, advancing the project.
▶ 1:47:21Mr. Watermeier: That's a good question. I think about the network in the united states like the candidate -- interstate system. No private partners. We need to be there and I think usf needs to be modernized as you mentioned. I think the communities and citizens are ready and they will support it.
▶ 1:47:44Mr. Everson: Thank you, senator, and thank you for the clarification. Usf has been an essential resource and something we need to look at and modernize for the ai era.
▶ 1:47:55Mr. Ramzanali: Yes, and we need to continue to focus on low income consumers and how they can be supportive. Sen. luján: I appreciate that. As we get to this place with the concerns shared around the policy and with the united states needs to do to ensure guardrails and rules and guidance, that it's clear there is liability.
▶ 1:48:20Mr. Ramzanali: Whether it is to the companies that are developing these models that have a responsibility with the agents for the end-user that has taken an open model and using it for nefarious reasons. There needs to be liability somewhere and so people do not do that, whether it is criminal, civil, or both. I want to ensure everyone across the country has the ability to take advantage of the promise of what this technology is. We have to be able to get connected.
▶ 1:48:48Mr. Ramzanali: I hope we can preserve the investment, we can see usf modernization. Everyone involved, including the fcc does good rather than bad. That we move in a positive way as opposed to rolling rules back and make it harder for everyday folks across the country. Madam chair, I want to commend you and the staff of this important hearing and all the panel is here today. I hope we have more conversations in this space and good policy comes out of these conversations. I applaud you for your efforts.
▶ 1:49:16Chair Fischer: Thank you, senator lujan. As I said earlier, it's a joy to work with you on these issues. You are very informed and very passionate. We agree on many, many issues. I am feeling positive on the outcome. I would like to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony here today. Senators will have until the close of business on august 6 to submit questions for the record.
▶ 1:49:46Chair Fischer: Then the witnesses will have until the close of business on october -- august 20 two respond to those questions. -- to respond to those questions. The committee stand adjourned.